[Hornlist] New Acoustical Testing of the Horn
Kendall, Congratulations on you new achievements! I am continually amazed at the amount of information you have found from the interior - "where the sun don't shine". Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Yamaha 662 Horn
See this page for info from Yamaha about the YHR-662 - http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail.html?CNTID=24389 Basically it is - YHR-662 Years: 1974-1980 Key: F/Bb Bore: .469" Bell Throat: Large Bell Material: Yellow Brass Detachable Bell: No Wrap: Kruspe Finish: Lacquer Current Model: YHR-668 --- I play a 668N and am happy with it - Yamaha has a very good reputation for the quality of their instruments. I suggest contacting the seller and asking about what exactly was done for the 'reconditioning'. Specifically about whether valve leakage was tested - if the valves need repair, that could get expensive. If the valves work properly, and have decent compression, then it seems like a good price. Both of my double horns were bought used - first a very well used 'Army surplus' King double, and later the 668N that was privately owned - neither horn had major problems, and both are still doing well for me. Jay Kosta Endwell NY --- Michael Levin micnike1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Mar 19 08:39:37 CDT 2009 Hey Everyone! I'm a senior in high school looking to buy a horn for college. I'm not planning on being a music major, but still want to play at a high level in college. I've tried searching the web for information on Yamaha 662 horns. There is one for sale on hornplayer.net that has been reconditioned for under $1000, but there really isn't too much information about it all. Does anyone know how good of a horn that would be for me? Any other opinions on it? Or is there any better horn you can think of for college? I know there are tons of opinions out there, but I would hopefully want to buy one that would run me, hopefully, under $1000. Thanks for all of your help, Michael Levin ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Oil
Instead of inserting oil through the valve slides I put the oil in the leadpipe and then rotate the horn to get the oil to travel to the rotors. The change-valve must be used to make sure the oil gets to both the F & Bb rotor sections. Before doing this, push the main tuning slides completely IN. When the oil is in the rotors, keep the valve slides UP, so the oil doesn't flow into the slides - operating the valves will distribute the oil around the rotor & casing. If you do insert through the valve slides, first put the oil directly in the slide, and fully insert the slide without letting the oil flow out. Then invert the horn so the oil goes from the slide into the rotor - this helps to minimize the amount of grease from the female tubing that gets washed into the rotor casing. If you try kerosene, I recommend "Ultra-Pure Lamp Oil" clear and odor free. Jay Kosta Endwell NY --- - in reply to: Joel Gilbert pgsagilbert at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 20:13:55 CDT 2009 I play on a Paxman 23 and recently had it cleaned. I had been using Hetman light rotor oil down the slides and Hetman rotor oil on the bearings. Before I had it cleaned the valves were getting kind of sticky, thus the cleaning. When I got it back, the repairman said to use Al Cass down the slides and a slightly thicker oil on the top. In proceeding with this recommendation, I found that my rotors slowed down to a crawl. Does anyone have any different recommendations as to what to do about this? They are basically no better than before I had them cleaned right now. Thanks, Joel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Pre-performance muscle condition tips?
Jesse, A lot depends on the duration of the audition - if it is a short 15 minute session then you should be ready to play at your peak ability, since you would not need the endurance required by a long performance. However if the audition IS playing a long session then make sure you do have the endurance to still be playing strongly at the end. By over-doing practice so near to the audition you risk injury, especially if you attempt to improve your range. Concentrate on doing the 'final polishing' in the days before the audition. If you start to feel any unusual stiffness or lack of muscle ability, then cut-back on the intensity and duration immediately. You might be able to work-thru the problem in the short term, but it is likely to get worse in the following days. Rest periods provide time for reading the scores to fine-tune timing and rhythm, and to understand how your part fits in with the enitre piece. Also listen to recordings to understand the context of excerpts that are part of the audition. Good luck, Jay Kosta Endwell NY (not a teacher or pro) -- Jesse Windels jesse.windels at gmail.com Sat Mar 14 21:53:45 CDT 2009 asked - Greetings list, I am approaching an audition and find myself mulling over some of the same questions that I keep returning to when attempting to get my performance in tip-top shape. I have been putting in good time and quality work on my material, but still don't pull it off like Baumann :P My high range needs some more stamina, so I have increased my routine from 3.5 to 5 hours a day with lots of frequent breaks whose duration depends on the intensity of the proceeding playing. Naturally day three of this and my chops are getting tough. So I think to myself, 'Maybe that's a good thing.' I've got 6 days until the audition and wonder when I should be backing off the long days. A few years ago I got it in my head that just playing a very very light diet of quality long tones and articulations the day before and of a concert or audition was best. Since then, I've noticed that I'll often play at my best on an average day 2 hours into practicing... and sometimes not. I'm sure you are all familiar with this. I am interested in hearing advice from a community of players who have no doubt arrived at some tried and true approaches to conditioning your chops in a time sensitive fashion. Thanks in advance for any help, Jesse Windels ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Vienna Phil
My wife (an extremely good 'listener' of music), thought the VPO played better in this year's New Year's Day concert than they had in the previous 5 or 6. She attributed it to the players seeming to really enjoy being there, and that they were enjoying the music. Also she mentioned that the sound was more clear, and each section and soloist could be heard more distinctly. In past years, she said it sounded like the players had 'telephoned in' their parts Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpiece problem
I won't attempt to give any specific mpc recommendations, but I think you should keep this criteria in mind... 1) The sound should be that of a conventional French Horn, not that of a trumpet, trombone, or euphonium. 2) Intonation, articulation, and a good 'playable range' are much more important than subtle difference in sound quality. Getting the right note at the right time is the primary concern. 3) Make sure the mpc allows the endurance to play well throughout an entire long performance or other playing session. The real test of a mpc is how it works at the END of a session, not at the beginning! Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Rotor Valves
1) Verify that the valve bearing 'plates' have not become loose. The plates are the round disks under the valve caps, and also the plates on the other side of the valve casings that hold the bumpers for the linkage. These plates contain the bears that align the rotors in the valve casing. The plates should not move (or 'click') when gentle finger pressure is put on them. If the plates are loose it is probably best to take it to a repair shop to have the valves adjusted. The grinding noise could be caused by the rotor being out of alignment and rubbing on the valve casing. 2) If you have not been doing so... besides oiling under the valve caps, put several drops of light oil on other side of the rotor. Just drop the oil on the gap between the moving rotor arm and the fixed valve plate, work the valves and the oil will flow into the bearing. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player, not repair tech ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Stopped horn problem and Allergy
About the 'stopped horn' question - first ask the band director what type of sound he wants - try to produce that effect and don't get hung-up about whether you do it 'stopped' or 'muted' or just 'regular'. My guess is that the effect is supposed to be - 'brassy with edge, but not too loud' . I think you can accomplish that without 'stopping' and without using a mute. A BIG problem with 'stopping' and also with mutes, is playing in tune and producing the sound volume that is needed. The green on your hand is from the copper in the nickel-silver metal of the horn (nickel-silver does NOT contain any real silver) it is an alloy of mostly copper, nickel, and some tin and zinc. The lacquer is probably worn in the area where your hands hold the horn - you can 'touch-up' those spots with clear nail polish. But probably it would be best to talk with an instrument repair person about what they would recommend - talk with the actual repair technician - not just the 'counter sales person'. Doing a complete profession re-lacquer is expensive because there is a lot of work involved in removing the old lacquer, cleaning and polishing the metal, and applying the new lacquer. But for spot touch-ups where perfect appearance isn't a concern, the cost should be reasonable. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player, not repair tech... -- Tim Kecherson ketch90 at inbox.com wrote - I have an intersting (although probably common) problem. My high school band just played an arrangement of Grieg's "In the Hall of the Mountain King" with a stopped horn entrance. My hand is large enough so that I cannot properly do stopped horn, I need to transpose one whole step down instead of one half step. Is there a way to get my bell throat enlarged so I can do this properly, or are there any models of horn with a larger throat than a Conn 8D? Also, I seem to be allergic to silver, as when I play I get green residue on the outside of my right hand. What can I do for this? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] what shoe for after beats?
hey! can this 'shoe' thing help with Soosa after beats? and what about those walst / pokka songs? where can i by top clas ones reel cheep - and how to get the rite siz? jay kosta endwell ny (a little north of south endwell, and right of east endwell) across the creek from the closed down clam mill - it got outsourced . ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Caught by the Horns by Burton Hardin
This site seems to have it - http://www.emersonhorneditions.com/index_files/Page581.htm I did a google search using 'hardin caught horns' I bought this piece several years ago for use in my community band - it is a fun piece for the horns and is not difficult for an amateur group, my guess is it's about Grade 3. It needs at least 3 decent horn players, and is written for 4. I think the 1st part goes to Bb above the staff at least once. The style combines some Mozart, with swing and syncopation. Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] lead pipe & mpc connection
My guess is that there is more involved than simply the mpc stem depth and leadpipe venturi location. The 'match-up' of the mpc's cup volume and backbore shape with the H177 can also have a big effect. It might also be as simple as you making small changes in how you play the horn to get the sound you want - back to the traditional (and valid) technique of using plenty of air flow, and embouchure control. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player -- Valerie WELLS valleriewells at msn.com wrote - I've been tootling around with a very, very old Holton H177. It plays quite well considering the condition it's in, except it has a slightly stuffy middle C. The mpc goes in about 1 - 2 mm farther than on my newer horn. I have two questions: (1) Do any of you know if this flaw can make a significant effect on the playing quality of a horn (such as the stuffy middle C?)? (2) What can be done to remedy this? Valerie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Advice for a Noisey H179
I am not a chemist, but I think that judging safety or volatility by the amount of odor is not reliable (note that the Ultra-Pure Lamp Oil has very little odor (none that I can detect), but it probably is volatile - as are other lightweight petro distillates. As for 'musical instrument oils' being any safer, that depends on the individual product. I'm sure that the warnings and treatment for any petro-based valve oil are similar to those for non-musical oils (and for Ultra-Pure Lamp Oil). MSDS for some of these products can be found here - http://www.musichem.com/msds/material_safety_data_sheets.htm http://www.nafaa.org/ultra-pure.pdf I think that reasonable practice is: (but you know this already..) 1) If you put oil into the horn, drain the excess oil before playing. 2) Wash hands after exposure to grease or oil. 3) Don't inhale thru the horn. 4) Don't swallow anything that comes out of the horn. Jay Kosta Endwell NY -- Valerie WELLS valleriewells at msn.com Thu Apr 12 14:04:37 CDT 2007 wrote: === <"Ultra-Pure, uncolored, unscented, Lamp Oil" (a very pure kerosene) that is available at K-Mart, Wal-mart, etc.).> Hmmm (Excuse me while I put my dusty nurse's hat back on for a moment.) This product may be good for the horn, but I'm not sure this stuff is good for the hornist. Kerosene, even very pure kerosene, is quite volatile & I have concerns about inhaling fumes of a petroleum distillant. I know that valve oils are also petroleum distillants, but they are designed to be used in a wind instrument and seem less "fumey" to me. (Nurse's disclaimer: These remarks are only my subjective opinion and not intended to be taken as fact or health care advice!) Valerie, retired RN, Balanced Embouchure Student === ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
I agree with Steve Mumford about trying a heavier weight oil on the bearing ends - but do not put heavy oil directly into any of the tubing. BUT for sluggish valves: If valve action is sluggish, then a quantity of lightweight valve oil can be put in the leadpipe and made to flow to the valves. The light oil will disovle and flush the old oil/grease from the rotor body that is making it sluggish. Empty the oil out thru the leadpipe as is done for water removal. Sometimes, synthetic oils/grease do not mix with petroleum based products - if you have used any synthetics, then you should follow the directions that came with them. The valves on my 2 horns (both are fairly old) click-clack when they need oiling. The oil for the bearings must be placed in 2 places on each valve: 1) on the bearing end under the screw-on valve cap 2) a drop in the small gap between the 'swing-arm' and the bearing on the other end of the valve - use an eye-dropper, or an extension tube on the oil bottle. For 'heavy oil', I recommend sewing machine oil. If that oil is too heavy, it can be thinned by mixing it with valve oil, or "Ultra-Pure, uncolored, unscented, Lamp Oil" (a very pure kerosene) that is available at K-Mart, Wal-mart, etc.). Everyone has favorite oils that work for them, you need to find a type and weight of oil that gives good valve action, and which also eliminates the valve noise. If there is still valve noise after applying heavy oil to the bearing ends, then it probably needs repair or adjustment. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Night Watch - 2 octave jump
Try starting with a 1 octave (or smaller) jump at a tempo slow enough that it can be done reliably. Then, slowly increase the speed to the performance tempo. Next, increase the size of the interval, and slow the tempo. I 'think' it would be possible to find an embouchure / jaw position that allows both the low, and high note to be played without need for a drastic position change. Perhaps using a 'mid-range' position would work. The position might not be ideal for either note, but could allow the "legato tounged two octive jump" to be done. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur, not teacher... --- Thore Dosdall dosda009 at morris.umn.edu asked - Hello all, I am working on a piece called Night Watch: A Dialog for Flute, Horn and Kettledrums by Ellis Kohs. The piece has a legato tounged two octive jump between the a-flat below middle c to the a-flat above the clef. Any suggestions on how to attempt and practice that section? Thore ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Conn 8D valve taper - slow valve action
Scott, If there is no obvious metal-on-metal binding or rubbing, then I suspect the slow (sluggish?) valves is due to grease or heavy oil between the rotor body and casing. I suggest closing all the slides and put about a teaspoon of very light valve oil (e.g. Holton, Al Cass, or UltraPure clear unscented Lamp Oil - kersone) down the leadpipe. Rotate the horn around so the oil flows to the valves (not necessary to go into valve slides). Operate the keys with the oil lying in the valve and that should disolve old grease/oil, and give immediate improvement. Remove the oil by draining as for water removal. Jay Kosta Endwell NY Scott Avenell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I've been playing it for a few weeks and am happy with most everything except the valve action, which I find a little slow. The valves were reworked a few years ago and the horn did not see much action afterwards. They are currently clean and well lubricated. ... Scott ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] how do you teach better tone?
more amateur thoughts . I recall that there was a study done which showed that many people have difficulty distinguishing what instrument is being played when they do not hear the start of a note. So for many instruments, the sound produced at the initial attack/acticulation of a note greatly contributes to its 'characteristic sound'. For the discussion of 'better tone', I think it is important to pay extra attention to the the initial attack - because the attack appears to be very important to listeners' perception of the overall sound (tone) of the instrument. >From hearing recordings of myself, I sometimes use a quite 'hard' attack - and the result is musically unrefined - obviously a horn, but lacking the singing and lyrical effect that I desire. For me, doing graceful attacks increases the chance that I'll clam - but when they do work properly, the entire sound is much better. I just recently became aware of this and am working on it! So, in addition to long tones, etc. for developing tone, also work to get a nice initial sound on each note. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] how do you teach better tone
For those doing 'self-teaching' I recommend - 1) a 'tape recorder' that can be used to record and play-back your playing. The sound quality does not have to be real good - just so long as you can tell how you sound. (I use an inexpensive cassette Karaoke machine - it works well enough). Try simple things such as slow scales, and play them as beautifully as you can. 2) at least a few record/cd/tape of horn playing that you like. Be sure to listen to different types of music - slow and smooth, fast and bouncy, etc. 3) try to have your playing sound like that on the records, and remember that your sound should be a real 'French horn sound' - not a trumpet, not a trombone, not a baritone, It is difficult to tell what you really sound like when you are busy playing, but the 'tape recording' will give good information. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Hearng Loss prevention - somewhat horn related
I was incorrect about saying that folic acid = B12. It was specifically Folic Acid that was studied as a possible aid to prevent hearing loss. I apologize for the confusion. Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Hearng Loss prevention - somewhat horn related
This study found that folic acid (vitamin B12) as a dietary supplement may help prevent hearing loss due to aging. Some foods in the USA and other countries are fortified with folic acid. The study participants didn't have this fortification in their diets, so the effect of the supplements given in the study were seen in a people whose diets didn't already contain extra folic acid. (Most daily multivitamin tablets contain either 400 mcg or 800 mcg of folic acid now.) Jay Kosta Endwell NY - Annals of Internal Medicine 2 January 2007 | Volume 146 Issue 1 | Pages 1-9 Effects of Folic Acid Supplementation on Hearing in Older Adults A Randomized, Controlled Trial Jane Durga, PhD; Petra Verhoef, PhD; Lucien J.C. Anteunis, PhD; Evert Schouten, PhD; and Frans J. Kok, PhD Requests for Single Reprints: Jane Durga, PhD, Cognitive Sciences Group, Nutrition & Health Department, Nestlé Research Center, PO Box 44, CH-1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland; e-mail, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Background: Age-related hearing loss is a common chronic condition of elderly persons. Low folate status has been associated with poor hearing. Objective: To determine whether folic acid supplementation slows age-related hearing loss. Design: Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial conducted from September 2000 to December 2004. Setting: The Netherlands. Participants: 728 older men and women recruited from municipal and blood bank registries with plasma total homocysteine concentrations 13 µmol/L or greater serum and vitamin B12 concentrations 200 pmol/L or greater at screening, and no middle ear dysfunction, unilateral hearing loss, or pathologic ear conditions unrelated to aging. Intervention: Daily oral folic acid (800 µg) or placebo supplementation for 3 years. Measurements: 3-year change in hearing thresholds, assessed as the average of the pure-tone air conduction thresholds of both ears of the low (0.5-kHz, 1-kHz, and 2-kHz) and high (4-kHz, 6-kHz, and 8-kHz) frequencies. Results: Initial median hearing thresholds were 11.7 dB (interquartile range, 7.5 to 17.5 dB) for low frequencies and 34.2 dB (interquartile range, 22.5 to 50.0 dB) for high frequencies. Sixteen participants (2%) were lost to follow-up. After 3 years, thresholds of the low frequencies increased by 1.0 dB (95% CI, 0.6 to 1.4 dB) in the folic acid group and by 1.7 dB (CI, 1.3 to 2.1 dB) in the placebo group (difference, 0.7 dB [CI, 1.2 to 0.1 dB]; P = 0.020). Folic acid supplementation did not affect the decline in hearing high frequencies. Limitations: The strict criterion for participation on the basis of serum homocysteine concentrations limits extrapolation to the general population. Folic acid fortification of food was prohibited in the Netherlands during the study, so baseline folate levels in participants were about half of those found in the U.S. population. Conclusions: Folic acid supplementation slowed the decline in hearing of the speech frequencies associated with aging in a population from a country without folic acid fortification of food. The effect requires confirmation, especially in populations from countries with folic acid fortification programs. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Looking to get a new horn
Stephanie, If you own your 8D, then it might be worthwhile to have it overhauled by one of the horn repair specialists who participate on this list. It really is necessary to do your own 'test playing' of an instrument to determine if you really like it, and if it is better for you. Ideally the test period should be at least as long as a strenuous practice session - things you might not notice in the first 15 minutes might become objectionable after an hour or so If you live near a large city there might be retail music stores that have several different horns avaiable to be tried. Or maybe even take a whole day to drive somewhere that horns are available. Another option is buying a used horn - there are many good ones for sale and they can be an excellent value. Just make sure you know how to examine it yourself or be able to take it to a local repair technician for inspection of things such as dents, valve tightness, solder joints, etc. Used horns aren't like used Kleenex, it's completely fine to 'buy used' with horns! If you tell us generally where you are located, I'm sure someone can make specific suggestions for that area. Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: cry, oh horn
Sorry Steve, your attempt at humor appears to be a lame attack at Jeremy's technical description of the cryo process. I know Cabbage, and you're no Cabbage. Jay Kosta Endwell NY -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Tarter Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:27 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: cry, oh horn On Oct 29, 2006, at 4:55 AM, Jeremy Cucco wrote: > Personally, I believe there is merit in the use of cryogenic treatment. > However, I haven't found it necessary to pony up the dough for it. I > figure, my chops could use far more improvement than my horn. Have you considered having your chops cryogenically treated? ---Steve Tarter--- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Air Support
Steve Freides wrote - ... I find thinking about the stream of air as it passes through my embouchure does what I need and I do not consider the issue of "support" directly in my playing, ... -- end of quote from Steve Freides -- I agree with Steve's view. My opinion is to not worry about 'air support', or 'diaphram usage' - the key item is to keep the 'air flow' moving with the quantity and speed needed for the notes! For the upper range (above the staff) it is critical to keep the air flowing and to not have the air flow get pinched closed. Even up in the high A/B/C range the air must flow, NOT to 'squirt' the air through a too tight embouchure. And, yes, this high range air flow is not only possible, but also required for good playing. If you pinch closed, try again and concentrate on the flow. With practice of having a good, controlled air flow, you will develop 'air support' and the means to inhale suitable amounts of air. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player, not teacher ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] DIY horn repair, etc.
Do-it-yourself horn repair might seem appealing, but be very careful if you attempt it. Even a job like re-stringing valves is not trivial. Small screws can be lost or broken, adjusting the levers so the keys are at the right height is not obvious, getting the right tension in the strings needs some finesse, etc. If you are 'handy' with other mechanical items (change your own watch battery/strap, faucet washers, minor toilet repairs, assemble 'kit' furniture, repair an electrical cord, etc.) then perhaps some diy horn work would be ok. DIY get easier after about the 4th time - but those first bouts are real 'learning experiences'... Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Metal Allergy
An inexpensive source of lexan mouthpieces is "Kelly Mouthpieces" - http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/ I haven't tried their horn mpc, but I have a Kelly T-bone mpce and like it. BTW - if you get into a detailed discussion about 'allergies' don't be surprised to hear that the reaction you are having is not an allergy. Medical technical terminology says that an allergy is caused by a reaction to a protein - such as in pollen, etc. Sensitivity and reactions to metals is widely reccognized, just not as a true allergy. Jay Kosta Endwell NY (not an MD or health-care pro ...) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Pitch: for Rachel & Paul & whoever else is interested...
My (amateur and self-taught) understanding of ET piano tuning is that only the octaves are really intented to sound 'correct'. All the other intervals are slightly off, but in such a way that regardless of the key, similar intervals have the same frequency ratio. ET tuning makes it possible for pieces in various keys to be played on the same instrument, and for them all to sound reasonably ok. To me, piano thirds sound terrible - regardless of my not having perfect-pitch, or even decent-pitch... Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Oil Advice
I have never had a 'gumming' problem with Al Cass oil, but it is fairly light-weight. Al Cass is designed as a 'piston valve oil', not as a 'bearing oil' for rotary valves. Sewing machine oil is heavy-weight and usually of very good quality. You could try a mixture of 1 part sewing oil with 4 parts of Al Cass - I use a similar mixture in my horn on the end of bearing shaft under the valve caps, and on the other side in the gap under the 'swing arm'. My mixture uses '100% pure, clear, unscented lamp oil (kerosene/parafin)' instead of Al Cass. If the weather conditions cause a larger than usual amount of water drainage from the horn, that might account for the need of more frequent oiling. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: playing low/high
I (adult amateur player) think the low/high benefit comes from developing a large / strong /controlled air-flow and embouchure via the low range. Keeping a good / forward-moving air-flow is also necessary for high range. Jay Kosta Endwell NY = a relevant earlier post from Wendell Rider is from here - http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/private/horn/2006-March/024212.html Hi, I'm going to make a few comments based on several of the posts i have read on this subject. I don't have time to quote each person but I will just answer this post to start. First of all, practice, if you are experiencing "deterioration" is bad, as another poster has stated. This could lead to injury. This is not good advice at all. Second, range does NOT come from endurance, it comes from proper playing techniques. I could take a year off and hit a high C right away because i know how to do it. I wouldn't have any endurance though. Playing for long periods in the high register is a matter of endurance, but not exclusively. Third, endurance does not come from range, but what does that mean anyway. To move on, I would echo suggestions that you reassess your fundamentals and not try to bite off more than you can chew at this time. You need to establish an ease of playing, not a feeling like it is lifting weights. Air is a BIG issue. Most of the people I teach or coach are not taking in enough air when they come to me. You can huff and puff and push all you want, but if you don't take in enough air, you are fighting a losing battle. I suggest you go to a hospital supply store and buy a Voldyne if you don't already have one. Use it to determine your air capacity and then use the device to learn to take in 90% of that capacity. Once you get that, you will experience some immediate results and then more long term ones. Learn to be an "air driven player". To me that means that every note you play comes from a feeling of the air flow rather than lip tension or pressure. It also means keeping the air flow going at all times. This is another thing that I see violated all the time. I'm sorry I don't have more time to detail this now. Endurance is really efficiency. Proper air use + relaxed and working embouchure + intelligent practice and playing in general. Its like a car. It can have all the horsepower and top level gadgets in the world, but it won't work if it isn't fueled properly and tuned up. Take some days off and reassess what you are doing. Now you need patience and probably some supervision. Good luck. Feel free to contact me off-forum. Sincerely, Wendell Rider For information about my book, "Real World Horn Playing" and the summer seminar, go to my website: www.wendellworld.com --- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] A good snake?
Unless there is some specific reason such as accumulation of grease, etc., I think that 'snaking' and bathing the horn every 3 months is not necessary. Also, it increases the risk of accidental damage. I am sure that you are quite careful but there is still an additional risk due to the handling involved. I use a cloth patch on a 'pull thru' to clean the leadpipe every month or so, and that along with regular 'grease and oil' seems to be sufficient. I think that a trumpet snake would also work to clean the leadpipe. I use a Q-Tip to dry and clean the mpc after every session - that keeps the mpc clean and prevents dampness in the case. I use a 1/2 inch 'chair leg tip' and a cloth patch on the end of the leadpipe to prevent water draining into the case. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player --- PLJ59 at aol.com PLJ59 at aol.com Sun Apr 2 21:33:24 CDT 2006 Any suggestions for a good snake? The one that I have has a lot of exposed metal around the brushes. My horn gets a bath about every three months, and usually doesn't seem to need it. I brush my teeth before playing, oil often, and nothing but water when I play. Thanks, Phil Jacobs ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] re: Tonguing Trouble
My (amateur player) opinion is that correctly beginning the 'next note' is generally more important than than how the previuos note is ended. If both notes can be done 'correctly' that is great, but don't sacrifice the beginning of a new phrase due to attempting a 'perfect ending' of the previous note. Jay Kosta Endwell NY --- in reply to: David Keeffe david at systemsolve.net Wed Nov 16 16:14:47 CST 2005 Hello Fellow-Listers I seem to have developed the bad habit of accidentally ending notes with the tongue, where the notes are close in time. With well-separated notes (e.g. with longer rests) there isn't an issue. What I seem to do (and it's hard to analyse) is to prepare the attack of a note too soon, and thereby end the previous note badly. It's as if the tongue movement is too large, or sluggish, so moves into place too soon. Does anyone have any suggested excercises and/or etudes to address this? David K ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: What the heck is it? / Buescher Horns
I don't think the "Conn-Queror" (as shown @ http://www.cornetconnection.com/connqueror.htm ) really has compensation. If you look closely you'll see that there aren't any air passage-ways directly between the valve casings to allow a direct 'no valve' flow of air. The external loop from 1st to 3rd valve does that function. Look at a modern trumpet design, and you'll see short tubing directly between valves 1&2, and 2&3. I think the pictured "Conn-Queror" is just a different wrap for a non-compensating cornet / trumpet. I own an old 3-valve non-compensating Buescher Euphonium which has the leadpipe going into the 2nd valve, and it also has a similar looking piece of external tubing for the air path. Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] re: harmonic series
Heather, Please clarify what fingering is used, and for which notes in the staff. I'm sure there is an understandable explanation to the situation, but I'm confused about the details. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] range problems
I have a related question for those with a good high range - When you tighten your lips (embouchure), is there a particular 'direction' in which you feel (or imagine) the corners of your mouth pulling ? For example, does the tightening of the corners feel directed - - straight downward - directly inward - directly backward - downward and inward towards the neck, back of jaw - etc. How do you describe where the 'pull' is aimed ? If you have another way to explain the proper feeling of the 'pull', please tell me about it. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Valve cleaning
The danger of valve disassembly for cleaning is that it exposes the delicate rotor body and interior valve casing to possible accidental damage. Also excessive 'cleaning' of the exterior of the rotor can cause leaking. Another point is that the removable bearing plate is a simple friction-fit to the casing - frequent removal and re-install will eventually cause the fit to loosen. The small screws that attach the bumper-plate, and the swing arm are also delicate and can easily be broken or lost. When valves become sluggish, I suggest just pouring about a teaspoon of light weight valve oil (or unscented lamp oil) into the leadpipe and turn the horn so the oil reaches all the rotors. Then just empty the oil the same way as emptying water. Several treatments might be needed, but this is still much quicker and safer than disassembly of the rotors. I find it useful to clean the interior of the leadpipe with a small cloth patch and a 'pull-thru' every month or so - be ready to catch the goo that comes out - you will probably be surprised Jay Kosta Endwell NY Amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] High Notes
I 'think' your teacher was suggesting - "Use balanced-tip-tension to make the lip opening more firm and tight for the high notes. This is done by tensing the muscles that control the center of the lips (especially the lower lip), and also using counter-acting tension with the muscles at the outer sides of the mouth to prevent the lip opening from being pinched closed. By doing this the lip opening is made slightly smaller and more firm - which enables the higher pitches to be produced." - I would appreciate your asking the teacher if this is a reasonable description of the technique, and also if the teacher can suggest a better 'written description'. ** I would also appreciate the same information from the experineced teachers and players on this list ** Here is a brief quote from Wendell Rider's book and web pages --- http://wendellworld.com http://wendellworld.com/html/HornBookSamples.html http://wendellworld.com/html/Embouchure.pdf - bottom p10 - top p11 "As you go into the upper register, you want to flex your lower lip so that it becomes firmer and effectively goes higher into the mouthpiece. This as opposed to trying to jam you lower lip into the mouthpiece as most people do when they first try to play up high. Learn to flex the lower lip up as you pull the chin down. This strong flex also protects your lower lip from pressure." Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player - who has difficulty higher than g2 Karl Feinauer karlwf at comcast.net wrote: Just recently in a lesson did my teacher say my high notes were all wrong. Apparently I was "smiling" to get the notes out, and I needed to keep my lips still in move in the inside of my embouchure. I could play high notes well up to a C but now I cant even really play past an F very well. Does anyone have any advice on high to re-learn high notes the correct way? I don't think it is lip strength because when I get up to an F sharp, it is just airy as opposed to full, but it doesn't pain my lips and I am not smiling. Thanks all. -Karl Feinauer ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Intonation in different registers
I think that Herb Foster is correct, and that my earlier posting about how to tune the horn-c, to a concert A, was wrong My playing is limited to 'wind bands' where we tune to concert Bb, so I probaby should have refrained from the discussion about 'tuning to A' I apologize for my mistake, Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Intonation in different registers
Herbert Foster herb_foster at yahoo.com asked ... The question still remains: do we tune a third from A in just or even temperament? There's 13 cents difference. My guess would be to tune the horn-c in just temperament - and without any attempt to 'lip it up', so the player would have ability to 'lip up' the horn pitches if and when necessary. The major 3rd of A-C is a much smaller interval in just temper, versus equal temper. Other intervals and key signatures would require the horn-c to be played somewhat higher. For a good description about temperament and tuning, see - http://www.heincomputing.com/precise2.htm Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player, always trying to play in tune - sometimes successful... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Lessons being taught on the Memphis list
I imagine there might also be situations of a teacher being 'second guessed' by information that is posted to the list that is different from the information provided by the teacher. At a minimum, this behavior could be a waste of time for both the teacher and student, and possibly a teacher could be offended by having his information questioned. On the other hand, perhaps the information from the internet can be more understandable and helpful - even when the technical details are the same as the teacher intended. The student who receives information from multiple sources (including internet, books, other players, other teachers, etc.) needs to be aware and careful about how and when to discuss such things with the 'primary teacher'. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player, not teacher, not student of teacher, ... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Looking for Giardinelli C series Gold Rim
As Hans Pizka mentioned, the gold plating can be done in various thicknesses. A mpc rim should have a thick plating because it is in constant 'rubbing' contact with your lips - a thin gold 'flash plating' would wear off very quickly. Thin plating is fine for objects that don't get handled much, but a tool such as a mpc rim needs a thick plating inorder for the plating to last. You should discuss this with the person doing (or taking the order) for your plating - if the person is not familiar with different plating thicknesses, you should probably talk with someone else Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Intonation in different registers - update
I originally mentioned key of concert Ab - I meant concert Db (horn Ab) Find a single setting for the slides that allows 'proper sounding' major scales in the keys of concert: F, Eb, Db, G, A, Bb, and C. After that, it is up to the player! Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Intonation in different registers
The issue of intonation on horn is difficult for me also. The same problems happen for me regardless of the equipment I have used, an old King single-F, or my more modern 'pro' level horns. A horn (or just about any brass instrument) does not really 'want' to play in tune without exact control by the player. It is the player, through proper use of technique, that makes the horn produce the proper pitch and tone. The various tuning slides cannot themselves solve the tuning problem, the job of the slides is to allow adjustment so that it is possible for the player to produce the desired pitch in the various ranges, modes, key signatures, etc. Find a single setting for the slides that allows 'proper sounding' major scales in the keys of concert: F, Eb, Ab, G, A, Bb, and C. After that, it is up to the player! Welcome to the struggle Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] notation - web reference
This web page has a good descriptions of the various tems being used . http://www.music.sc.edu/fs/bain/atmi02/onc/ Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] List of beginner mouthpieces
The mpc you mention are all acceptable for beginner and general-purpose use - if the rim fits the player's lips & teeth. I would also include the Holton DC in the list, and the various Yamaha and Schilke models if they are available to try-out - but don't waste time and money on an extensive search unless none of the accessable choices are satisfactory regarding fit & feel. Just choose one that fits comfortably - not too big, not too small, not too thin, not too fat. After you have developed a secure 'public performance playing range' from G below the staff to G above the staff, then it might be reasonable to start trying other mpc to see if they give any advantage. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player -- Steve Freides steve at fridayscomputer.com .. In the interest of pedagogy and in my own interest as well, I'd like to know how everyone feels about these mouthpieces for beginners: Conn / UMI 7BW Bach 11 Holton Farkas MC Holton Farkas MDC Giardinelli12 .. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Mouthpiece Survey
I believe the information below is specifically about trumpets . Trumpets (and most other brass except horns) have a separate 'mouthpiece receiver' at the end of the actual leadpipe. So the trumpet mpc does not actually enter into the leadpipe - the end of the mpc is some distance from the end of the leadpipe - this distance is the 'gap' that is mentioned below. With typical horns, there is not a separate 'mpc receiver' the mpc is inserted directly into the leadpipe, so there is not a 'gap' as occurs with trumpets. But there still is the issue of where the horn mpc ends in relation to the venturi (smallest diameter) of the leadpipe. Horns do usually have a ferrule (band of metal) around the end of the leadpipe to provide extra strength, but that ferrule just surronds the tip of the leadpipe - it is not a separate mpc receiver. Jay Kosta Endwell NY --- Ray & Sonja Crenshaw raymanz93 at gogenesis.com ... Renold Schilke espoused that there should be NEAR ZERO clearance between the mouthpiece shank and the leadpipe venturi: That is, the end of the mouthpiece should KISS the bottom of the receiver. I think Dave Monette likes a little gap there, perhaps a millimeter or two, but I don't have a real measurement for you. ... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Chambers Mouthpieces
A mpc bore of 5mm is very near to #9 drill size, so 5mm is slightly larger than a #10 and slightly smaller than a #8. Jay Kosta Endwell NY --- matthew scheffelman corusa1 at yahoo.com ... Pizka's mouthpiece has a 5mm bore. I think this is just over an #8 for drill size(please correct). ... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Sound on an 8d
For me (amateur player, not particularly strong..), using a mpc with too large throat causes airy sound and short endurance, especially in the upper range. Bore size of about 11-12 is most useful for me, on Y668N. Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] 11th partial (general horn tuning)
For me, tuning is finding a useable compromise position for the slides - 1) set the main tuning slide(s) so the open 'Horn in F' G and C (concert middle C and the F above it) are in tune without needing too much lip or hand adjustment. 2) for the individual valve slides, start with 1st valve being a full step lower, and 2nd valve being a half step lower. 3) then play several major scales to use the various valve combinations and make minor adjustments to the valve slides so that the scales can be played to sound correct. There will be some notes in every scale that need lip or hand correction, if the slides are set to have a particular scale be 'real easy' then some other scale will be very difficult .. I use an electronic tuner for #1 & #2, but tune by ear for #3. Then again use the tuner to verify that I can play the notes in equal-temper with the tuner. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player --- Steve Freides steve at fridayscomputer.com ... 3. To have my horn be in tune, I need to pull out my first and second slides a little but my third slide needs to be all the way in to match them so far as I can tell - is this normal or in any way of concern, or perhaps related to any of the above? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Brand X
That's the famous "Kreul" wrap.. Jay Kosta Endwell NY David Goldberg goldberg at wccnet.org I rented a horn in Mesa Arizona for my stay here - I can't tell what it is; there is no name, no identification. Can you guess? Here is I hope a sufficient description: Silver, standard double. The thumb valve cap faces down, that is, opposite the other three. The thumb valve lever is very crowded, practically scrapes the circular tubing of the bell piece. This lever is sort of mushroom shaped. The f-slide opens downward. There is a long brace (~3 inches) attaching the f-slide to the tube that precedes the bell tubing. That's about it, except to say that the horn is uncomfortable to hold - my thumb wants to slide down the mushroom; that stretches out my hand, making the pinky hook cut into my finger. Ow. The only thing that stops my thumb from sliding farther up the lever is that the space between the tubes is too narrow for it to get through. Ow. What is this monster? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
re: [Hornlist] Olds Ambassador horns
A friend of mine played a single-F Olds and the G and A above the staff were very difficult to play - much more difficult than on single-F King or Reynolds. I think he sold the horn, so I can't check details such as serial number, etc. The problem might have been unique to that horn - I haven't tried others, and it was at least 5 years ago. Jay Kosta Endwell NY ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Tuning
This is basically what I do to set and test my tuning - 1) adjust the main slides for the F and Bb sides for the 'c' in the treble clef staff (c2, third space) - use an electronic tuner for this, then put the tuner aside. 2) pull the valves slides out as Hans Pizka has suggested. - 3) NOW, play several different scales - C, G, F, Bb, Ab, etc. And also play thru a circle of 4ths, and 5ths. As you do this you will probably notice several notes that aren't quite 'right' - listen by ear for this, not by a tuner. By making minor slide and embouchure adjustments you will hopefully find a setting to have all the scales and 'circles' sound ok. The goal of the slide adjustments is to find slide locations that provide in-tune scales and 'circles' with a minimum amount of embouchure and right-hand manipulation. When you are playing with others, you will still find it necessary to blend your intonation to match the group to produce the best ensemble sound. Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: WES-factory horn testing - NHR
Baucom, Fred writes: Another question: if Ken somehow becomes the next Pope, will we be calling him Pope Pope? - The naming of the Pope has recently been allowed to be much more flexible... during the consideration of Cardinal Emil Sicola for the papacy it was determined to be unseemly to have a "Pope Sicola" ! < groan & :^) > Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: error
I think it might be more correct to say that "someone has to play-test the factory horns to make sure they are acceptable to ship to dealers" It would be interesting to know what criteria various builders (both factory and custom) use to determine whether their horns are 'good enough'. I doubt that any builder attempts to verify that there are not ANY defects, and that each horn is their best quality for that model. It seems that with many instruments, the chance of finding a 'very good' example out of a selection of, say, 3 instruments is fairly small. Hopefully, there IS a good chance that all the instruments will be 'good' or 'ok'. I base this on several anecdotal accounts of professional players being happy that they had to try ONLY 5 or 6 instruments to find one they were willing to purchase for their own use. There is also the 'factory visit' process that many pros use when selecting a new instrument. I'm sure that many of us are more selective about buying a bunch of bananas than was possible when we bought our horn! Jay Kosta Endwell NY c y writes: What is so hard to understand about this concept? someone has to play test the factory horns to make sure there are no defects... [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 3:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] error I think it says less for the quality and more for the qualities of a Holton horn.I have played about 4000 Holton horns. Actually, that should have read 40,000. I forgot to multiply by 10 years. Wes ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] off-beat notes - 'after-beats' or 'pickups' ?
Is there a music notation that indicates whether an off-beat note is to be played with the feeling of an after-beat (the 'pah' of oom-pah), or as a pickup note to the next on-beat (even if the on-beat is a rest)? Maybe all along we've been playing pickup notes, and not after-beats .... Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Hans Pizka's mouthpiece pressure questions answered
Brittany, While we wait for Hans Pizka to catch-up on his sleep so that he can provide his answer to you, please do the following -- ** from reading your messages, it seems that your lips are NOT bruised or injured, correct? If you do have injured lips, then do very easy or no playing until they heal! 1) STOP trying to do 'pressure-less' playing. Using TOO MUCH pressure is bad, but everyone needs to use some amount of pressure to make a good seal of the mpc rim against the lips. My understanding is that Farkas is said to have regretted that section in the book about playing the horn while it rests on a shelf. 2) Do not 'force' high notes by jamming the mpc against your lips. Yes, high notes DO require additional mpc pressure to make a good air-tight seal, but the high notes should be 'played' with embouchure tension and control - not by the strength of your left arm. 3) To really prepare for college, practice and learn the transpositions for horn in different keys, and learn all the scales in major, and minor (natural, melodic, harmonic, etc.). Learn the chords for all the scales, etc. 4) Make sure that you do not play too much each day - your embouchure should feel healthy and strong for the first playing session of each day. Also, you should not force yourself to play when your embouchure is really exhausted, that will cause problems. BUT, it is ok to play a little longer when you START to get tired - that will help increase endurance (I think Hans calls this "playing with a handicap"). Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Mouthpiece pressure
Brittany, In your practice sessions when you work specifically on using less pressure it should be your embouchure muscles that tire - and YES you will have a reduced range and your sound quality will be reduced - during the time that you are doing these less-pressure excercises! The point of this type of practice is to develop and strengthen your embouchure - which is good! After you tire from these exercises give yourself a break to allow your lips to regain their strength. During your other practice and playing sessions you should use enough pressure to sound your best - but avoid extreme high range practice if it DEMANDS excessive pressure. Allow time for your high range to increase at its own rate, and with the embouchure strengthing that your less-pressure exercise provide. Mouthpiece pressure becomes a big problem when it causes lip pain or injury, when it causes tooth problems, or when it reduces your sound quality. Many successful pros do not worry about mpc pressure except for the items I just mentioned above. But many of them probably do, or have done, similar less-pressure execises to develop their embouchre muscles. Also, always use plenty of air, and keep your throat and shoulders relaxed. Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: spring theory
Leonard & Peggy Brown writes: At last, a question that has never been asking on this list: I took apart a clockwork spring lever yesterday. As expected the end of the spring where it is bent to fit into middle rod was broken off. These springs look like wind up springs from a toy, like a heavy version of a clock spring. Looking closer I found the spring was broken in 6 different pieces, not rusted, broken. See the problem? Once the spring broke it would unwind and lose it's tension, right? So,after the first break, why would it continue breaking up? LB --- Perhaps the entire spring was brittle, and the violent un-winding upon the first break 'caused' the breaks in other places ? Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: horn metals
germania writes: I was just wondering what metal most horn players prefer because I'm starting to see that most "pro" horns are now made in nickel and must be special ordered in any other metals. I am saying this because in my search for a new horn every single horn that I tried in the nickel except for the 8d was way to edgy and just not capable of any real orchestral work at all! I know that they are different for horns, but it does make a difference. Happy Hunting! Here is some brief info from my understanding of current horn design and the metals that are used - these ideas are strictly about the mechanical properties of the horn - I am not addressing the very strong control that the player has thru use of embouchure, mouthpiece, how the horn is held, righthand position, etc. 1) The 'hardness' of the metal and the design of the bell throat, and of the bell flair has the biggest influence on how 'brightly' a horn plays. All horns that I know about are made of some type of copper alloy. Nickel-silver (NS) is copper brass with nickel and zinc - NS is the hardest alloy used for horns and its hardness gives excessive brightness unless the bell throat and flair are large (for example 179, 668, 8D, etc.). Note that NS (also called German silver) does not contain any real silver. The 'yellow colored' alloys of brass are a blend of copper and zinc - a greater amount of copper in the alloy makes the metal softer. I believe that 'Rose Brass' is the softest, 'Gold Brass' is somewhat softer than standard 'Yellow Brass', and NS is harder that YB. 2) You might encounter a horn that is silver-plated (as is common on Bach Strad trumpet). With a s-p instrument, the underlying metal is probably some type of yellow brass. The s-p is used to protect the brass (instead of a lacquer finish) - the s-p does not affect the sound very much and should not be confused with the NS alloy - NS is not a plating, the metal is the same color all the way through. 3) There have been some claims that 8D's work especially well in recording studio situations where there is a microphone very near to the bell. The explanation is that the sound from an 8D is very compatible with that type of microphone placement. Some people claim that with other horns, a certain amound of distance is needed for the sound to be heard at its best. 4) In the USA there is a wide difference in the choice of horn type and horn metal used in top-rank professional orchestras of different cities and regions. For example, I think that Cleveland and Dallas use large-bore NS horns, and Chicago and San Francisco use smaller-bore YB horns - and the horns in all of those orchestras sound great! Also, it is difficult for the player to really judge how the horn sounds - what seems like an overly bright sound to the player might sound fine to a person in the audience. 5) Popular YB horns are 10D, 11D, 567, 667, 180, 181. Also, the yellow brass (German) Alexander 103 is very common world-wide as a pro horn. 6) I think the Holton 177 is a NS version of the medium-bore YB 178, and the NS model does have somewhat of a reputation of being too bright sounding (because its medium-bore does not balance the use of NS metal). You should also check the Lawson website - see http://www.lawsonhorns.com/ it contains very good information! Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
