Re: [Hornlist] Confusing transposition (double post)
2009/8/15 Prof.Hans Pizka h...@pizka.de: Jonathan, there is an easy way to handle such problems (parts): LEARN HOW TO TRANSPOSE That is he ONLY way. Oh, I agree entirely. But Valerie's question was about the fact that, although she *can* transpose, she is used to the idea that the transposition is into the home key of the piece, and therefore a written C major arpeggio traces out the notes of the tonic chord. This makes for an nice easy way of giving yourself a pitch reference for entries. If you don't have perfect pitch, that can be very useful. Whether I'm transposing or not, for high register entries I'm always listening out for what is going on around me so I can obtain a pitch reference that will help me hit an entry cleanly. I find that in this respect playing the horn is very like singing. If you can't hear the note in your mind, you can't play it. But sometimes the transposition isn't to the home key of the piece (there are many examples and I provided a few). In such cases, it can be a bit unsettling that the normal pitch references don't work. There's no way round it other than to know the key of the piece and therefore where the tonic really is, and then to make the necessary mental adjustments. I would regard learning how to do that as part of learning how to transpose, and it just has to be done. I rather suspect you are of the same opinion. I was trying to offer some insights into how. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Confusing transposition (double post)
2009/8/14 wells123...@juno.com wells123...@juno.com: Am I making any sense here? Have any of you had a similar experience? Is there a strategy I can employ to avoid that sort of disaster again? Hi Valerie This isn't an uncommon situation - the 2 pairs of horns quite often get crooked in different keys either so that they can cover more notes of the scale so that the 4 horns can play complex chord sequences between them, or so that the second pair can take over when the key modulates. Dvorak uses different crooks for both of these purposes in his 6th symphony. The first movement has horns 1 2 in D, and horns 3 4 in E; the second movement has horns 1 2 in F with 3 4 in Bb basso, 3rd movement 1 2 in F, 3 4 in D and 4th movement 1 2 in E and 3 4 in D. Also, if the piece is in a minor key, it is not uncommon for the horns to be crooked in something other than the keynote of the piece. I just played a concert last night on the Edinburgh Fringe which included the Mozart C minor Serenade. The horns were in Eb. As for dealing the confusion of not having the horn crooked in the home key of the piece, there's no really easy way of handling it. All you can do is make sure you do know what the key of the piece is and adjust your mind accordingly. The hardest time I have had with that is Brahms 3, which is in F but has the first two horns crooked in C throughout. Playing 1st for that was a bit unsettling initially until I worked out where I was relative to the key of the piece. I don't know which Mendelssohn piece you were playing but both the Scottish Symphony and the Overture Ruy Blas have the two pairs of horns crooked in different keys like this. The most extreme example that I know of where this happens is the Berlioz Symphony Fantastique, where if I recall correctly at one point all four horns are playing at the same time and each is crooked in a different key. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Starting a horn blog
I've been subscribed to both the Yahoo and Memphis lists for a number of years now, and have long since lost count of the number of posts I've made. A few of them are on topics which seem to recur, so I've decided that I ought to put some of my longer contributions up on a blog, where they can be more easily referred to. The new blog is here: Horn Thoughts http://jonathanhornthoughts.blogspot.com/ I've started with a post on tuning the horn. I'll aim over the next few weeks to put up many of my longer contributions to the lists, cleaning them up and editing them for grammar, spelling clarity, and where appropriate putting into a single post all the points I made in a particular thread. Hopefully they may offer an insight as to how a keen amateur approaches the instrument. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Wagner Tuba - range
2009/5/7 Steve Freides steve.frei...@gmail.com: One of my students, who had seen both a Wagner opera and Bruckner symphony within the past week, mistakenly assumed I knew something about Wagner Tubas. I don't, so we looked online together and learned a few things. The one thing I wasn't sure of was the register - we found mention of a Bb and an F basso - are both of these an octave _lower_ than a normal French Horn? I had assumed that the register was the same and not lower. A short list of what's the same and what's different would be great, assuming a Bb/F double Wagner tuba. The Tenor (Bb) Wagner tuba has the same length of tubing as a Bb side of a double horn. The Bass (F) Wagner Tuba has the same length of tubing as the F side of a double horn. Modern instruments are often built as F/Bb double tubas. Because of the wider bore, they tend to be less secure on higher notes. The way in which the transpositions are written out in the parts is by modern standards rather idiosyncratic, and does vary depending on the composer and the work. For instance, In the Bruckner symphonies, the parts are written as 2 tenor tubas in Bb, (written in Bb basso), and 2 bass tubas in F (written In F basso, i.e. sounding an octave and a fifth below written pitch). Wagner himself used three different and incompatible notations in the course of the Ring. So you have to check carefully what the intended transposition is when you come across a tuba part. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingering
2009/4/28 marksue...@aol.com: For intonation purposes I've started using 3rd valve for second space a and fourth line d. For fast passages it gets a little tough. Has anyone out there tried this and have they gotten used to it on fast passages with practice? It depends on how you have tuned your horn. My approach is to tune 3rd valve so it is very slightly flat when used alone, but is in tune when used with 1 or 2, and to use 12 for the D and A you mentioned. With 1 2 each set to be in tune when used alone, they are imperceptibly sharp when used together, and so in slower passages I would use 12 in preference to 3. If you tune both 1 and 3 to be in tune alone, it will be noticeably sharp when used in a 13 combination. In fast passages, the notes go by too fast for such minor tuning issues to be noticed much, and so I use whatever fingering is most convenient to the passage. By default I use the standard 12, but I'm not above using 3 for D, or even 2 alone (semitone down from the open harmonic on Eb) in a very fast and awkward passage if that is what is needed to get clean notes. And occasionally it happens that a fast passage even in the upper register falls under the fingers far better on the F side than the Bb side, so I use that. Do whatever enables you to stop worrying about the notes and get on with interpreting the music. The conventional fingerings and tuning arrangements became conventional because they work in the majority of cases, and so you shouldn't cast aside convention without good reason. However, it is perfectly possible that your horn and embouchure in combination may have tuning oddities that make your system work better. In the end, you should go with what works for you. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn Transposition:
2009/4/27 ardee...@comcast.net: One very good way for anyone to learn to read most of the transpositions available to hornists is to play the entire Marriage of Figaro opera. Once a horn player has done this over 12 times, it is highly possible that he/she will have almost forgotten how to read horn in F! I recall a few years ago doing one of the Rehearsal Orchestra weekend courses in London - they were running through the whole of Das Rheingold (unstaged but with singers) over 2 weekends. At that stage of Wagner's writing for the horn, he was mostly using the valves as a quick way of changing crook. For the first weekend I was playing 2nd, and there was a change of transposition every few bars, often right in the middle of a phrase. I recall at one point that there were 4 consecutive written Gs, each with a different transposition written above it. I have never been so exhausted after a weekend of music as on that occasion. For the second weekend, I retreated to the relative safety of one of the Wagner Tuba parts. It was a challenge getting used to the unfamiliar instrument, but at least the transposition didn't change as often! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Jonathan West got it right!
2009/3/21 Alexander Guziel drcrawf...@gmail.com: You can put the oil in the slides then keep the oil in the bottom, then put it in all the way, and turn it over so it doesn't touch anything It will touch something, since as I mentioned there will be grease attached to the inside of the tubing which has been pushed to just beyond the maximum insertion point of the slides. Now, it may be that your particular combination of oil and slide grease is such that the grease hardly dissolves at all in the oil, in which case you're OK irrespective of the way you get the oil there. I prefer not to take a chance on it, as I suspect that there are cases where a sludge of oil and dissolved grease has slowed up valves. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 75, Issue 20
I was using hetman light rotor oil for the top, al cass for down the slides, and very little stp oil treatment for the slides. The rotors didnt slow down until I reoiled them about 5 days after I got the horn back from the repairman. To oil it, I usually put oil into the slides, push them the whole way in, and invert the horn. There's always a bit of grease that collects at the end of the slide even if you wipe it away regularly, and there will almost certainly be a bit of grease on the inside of the valve tubing just beyond the furthest insertion point of the slides. I suggest that your method will cause the oil to dissolve any of this grease it comes into contact with as it drops down towards the valves, and so thicken and gum up the valves. Instead, what I do when oiling the rotors is to remove the slides altogether. Then hold the horn so that the open ends of the slides are vertical. Position the dropper in turn above the centre of each open tube and drop a single drop of oil down each one, so that it drops on to the rotor directly without ever touching the sides of the tubing. Operate the valves to spread the oil across the rotors, then replace the slides. I suspect that avoiding grease contamination is more important for keeping the valves operating freely than the brand of oil you use. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn in B flat or B natural?
2009/3/18 Valerie WELLS valleriewe...@msn.com: I once played a piece that was Corno in B or Cor in B (not sure which). As it turned out, it was really horn in B flat, down a perfect fifth -- what a relief! I've now been given some parts of Mendelsshon's Elias Oratorium, Erster Theil. It's for Corno III, in B. I hope this means horn in B flat (down a perfect fifth) rather than horn in B natural (down an diminished fifth). Can anyone clarify this for me? Please respond to one of my email addresses below. I'm on digest may not see the answer before the first rehearsal! The German for Bb is B. The German for B is H. Mendelssohn was German. You don't see parts for Horn in H very often. The only two pieces in standard repertoire where I recall seeing horn in H is the second movement of Brahms 2 (1st 2nd horns) and a short passage in the 5th movement of Schumann's Rhenish symphony, in the 3rd 4th parts. The first part of Elijah is definitely in the german B (i.e. in Bb) Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] All We Like Sheep
Best plan is to keep your horn clean and never take it to any idiot repairmen. I'll second that. My valves had been getting a bit slow lately, so I've just spent an hour washing the horn through with soapy water, especially getting it into the valve rotors, and then re-oiling the valves (no more than one drop of oil down each of the valve tuning slides) and re-greasing the slides. The valves are much improved, and for no more then the cost of a bit of washing liquid and warm water! Mind you, I have noticed a loose stay on the 3rd valve tuning slide. I suppose that will have to get re-soldered sometime. Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Practice/playing limits?
Valerie As others have pointed out, everyone is different. I have a busy life and quite frankly I often don't get my horn out of its case between rehearsals of my local amateur orchestra, and I have not the slightest problem in endurance for more or less anything in the standard orchestral repertoire which they play. My warmup consists of 2 minutes of long notes and slurred arpeggios just before the rehearsal starts, and I can get away without even that if I really have to. If I have a solo or a particularly taxing piece (1st horn in a Mahler or Bruckner symphony for instance) then I'll get the horn out and do a bit of practice to enhance the endurance and practice passages from the specific work - such hairy pieces tend to have a few passages that need a bit of a check of the fingerings as well as more than normal endurance. I find that if I go 2-3 weeks between rehearsals without a bit of practice in between, the next rehearsal is a bit of a struggle, but 45 minutes of practice for 3 days will get me back to the level I need. I suspect that there are more amateur horn players who get by without much in the way of practice between rehearsals than are openly willing to admit the fact :-) Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] A Practicing dilemma
2008/12/12 sirgallihad sirgalli...@gmail.com: Well, my warmup consists of mainly a mix of arbans, farkas and Carouseau. Then I move on to studies by Conconne, Maxime-Alphonse, Kling, sometimes kopprash, sometimes Gallay. After that is pieces, Mozart 1 2nd mvt, mozart 2, 1st, mozart 3 1st exposition, hindemith sonata in F, and then when I have time, excerpts, right now working on Mahler 6 and haydn variations by Brahms. This is obviously not every day, but a mix of all these, practicing the ones that are most urgent. You're not practicing. You are playing through things. You can't possibly be doing most of that stuff in a single session and achieving any kind of meaningful improvement in any of it. Any one of those items is worthy of 20 minutes continuous attention, getting details sorted and getting used to getting it right, so you can't possibly do justice to more than three of those items in a single 60-minute session. Unfortunately, many teachers never teach how to practice. It would appear that yours is among them, or perhaps you never took any notice of what he said. Seriously, based on what you have described, by changing the way you practice, you can almost certainly halve the time you spend practicing and still double the speed at which you improve. Would you like to do that? If you would, then I've written before on the subject of practice. No need to repeat myself. Take a look here http://www.mail-archive.com/horn@music.memphis.edu/msg22767.html http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/horn/message/29042 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/horn/message/21748 Very similar techniques can be used for practicing sight-reading technique, as I have described here http://www.mail-archive.com/horn@music.memphis.edu/msg04213.html If after a few days rest, you decide to change the way you practice, and really follow the techniques in the first link, I can almost guarantee that your teacher will be completely blown away by the progress you make, and will ask what you have done! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Christmas, religious music, other questions
2008/12/2 [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So my simple -- or perhaps simple-minded -- question is, is such a leadpipe likely to improve the accuracy of my playing, assuming all other factors remain roughly the same? I don't want to spend $600 or more, then find out that I went in a wrong direction. The simple-minded answer is that without en expert actually taking a look, it's not possible to say. It might be that you would get better value from trading the horn in and using the $600 plus the sale price to get a better one. The advantage of doing such a trade is that you can try the new horn out and see whether you like what you are buying, *before* you part with all that cash. Furthermore, if you have accuracy problems, a lesson or two with a good local teacher may indicate whether you have embouchure problems that are contributing to it, and that might prove to be better value still. Others on the list can burn me at the stake for heresy if they wish, but I've always taken the view that unless the horn is seriously defective in some fashion, how you blow into the horn is of far more importance than the type of horn you play, and far greater room for improvement is usually available from concentrating on the player rather than the instrument. I think the great majority of adult amateur horn players could quite radically improve as a result of taking a short course of lessons from a good teacher who is also a pro player, having the teacher point out their weaknesses and offer suggestions for what needs to be done to fix them, and then getting on with practicing the exercises necessary to improve the weak points. Most of us, when we learned as children, didn't practice properly. We played the pieces and studies we were told to by the teacher, but we didn't really understand why a particular exercise was being put in front of us - what aspect of playing it was intended to address. As an adult, you can do better when learning. If the teacher explains why he's making a suggestion, i.e. what he's trying to achieve, you have both the understanding and the motivation to apply that knowledge in a much more concentrated way. Regards Joinathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Brahms Trio, Op. 40
2008/11/20 Robert Dickow [EMAIL PROTECTED]: His posthumous horn etudes are interesting too by the way, I've been playing them a bit lately for curiousity. I didn't know it was possible to compose after one had died. I thought one could only decompose. Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Piano Trio Transcriptions
There is a marvellous trio for that combination by Lennox Berkeley. Look out for the recording of it by Dennis Brain, Manoung Parikian and Colin Horsley. As for transcriptions of piano trios, I haven't tried to do that but I'm sure some could be transcribed. You would have to look at the range and agility of the cello part and decide whether the horn could reasonably play it, or whether it could be simplified to make it playable. Individual movements would probably be more amenable to the treatment than whole trios. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Summer programs
2008/9/23 Mathew James [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hey list, I am hoping some people can enlighten me in summer orchestral programs that occur in Europe. With a special interest in Germany and Austria. The next summer preparing begins HOORAY! Not Germany or Austria, but one I can wholeheartedly recommend is the Rehearsal Orchestra, which meets for a week in Edinburgh, usually in the 2nd or 3rd week of August. they don't have next year's programme published yet, so keep an eye on their website www.rehearsal-orchestra.org Very high standard - you are talking experienced amateurs and college-level students, and the conductors and string principals are all experienced professionals. A significant proportion of the professional players in the UK have been through the Rehearsal Orchestra at one time or another. Simon Rattle was a percussionist there when he was about 15 :-) They get through about a dozen pieces during the week. They have 4 sessions a day of 90 minutes each. A symphony will be rehearsed for a couple of sessions. A tone poem normally for one session only. They will choose a couple of the pieces to include in an informal concert (termed an open rehearsal) at the end of the week, to which friends relatives can be invited. You have the evenings free to go and see shows at the Edinburgh Festival or Fringe. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 68, Issue 1
Quality of life or our work has no meaning any more. If it is not measurable, hence bottom-lineable, it doesn't matter. It doesn't exist. Subjectivity is a dirty word. Objectivity is king. Too bad there is no such thing as true objectivity. Subjectivity is what makes human beings. I love the comment in JW's post about leaving the musical part to the conductor! So true and so pathetic. Conductors? They have been bottom-lining for so long they haven't got any music left in them. Fortunately for them, the performances are now judged only by the perfection index, which simply requires the right notes at acceptable tolerances of dynamics and rhythm. Just read the reviews. Those have been bottom-lined too. We have lost our way. I have to say that this is one of the reasons I walked away from the idea of a professional career after I finished college 25 years ago. (Another reason was of course the huge oversupply of new graduates relative to the number of available jobs.) Fortunately, I had done my first degree in a completely non-musical subject (electronic engineering) before going on to do 2 years of music as postgraduate student, so I was able quite easily to decide that it was going to be much more fun being a professional engineer and an amateur musician rather than trying to do it the other way around. That was absolutely the right decision for me, it meant I could play just the music that I wanted to play, with people who were there primarily because they wanted to be there. The technical standard of of the music I take part in is usually well below professional standard, but that is made up for by the obvious enjoyment of the people participating - there is often an excitement about amateur performances which can be lacking from professional concerts, even of the highest level. I remember going to see Simon Rattle bringing the Berlin Philharmonic on their first trip to London after he took over there. The main work was Bruckner 9, something a horn player in the audience ought to thoroughly enjoy! The sound was beautiful, everything was perfectly in place - and the overall effect was if anything slightly boring. I know Rattle is capable of making the piece exciting, because I had played the same piece under him on on orchestral course with the Rehearsal Orchestra a few months previously, and it is one of my finest musical experiences, it was inspiring seeing how over the course of a day's rehearsal he built the sound of a good amateur group into something that wouldn't disgrace a professional orchestra. Admittedly, the excitement of amateur performances is sometimes a result of the fact that you don't quite know what is going to happen next - because the the players don't quite know either! The best amateur performances can stack up against professional performances, because the players are all there because they want to participate, and they play primarily because they love the music. The best amateurs have levels of technical competence not all that far short of professional levels. When I'm fortunate enough to play in such a group, it is one of the finest musical experiences going. We all talk a fair bit about clams or cracked notes. Yes, of course, you should refine your technique in order to minimise them. But I work on the basis that an occasional clam is forgivable, and so I will go to the edge of my technique and take the risk of a cracked note occasionally in order to get the phrasing and expression I want. In that, attention to detail is everything - you need to listen to and adjust the tuning of every note. You have to make a definite decision about the phrasing and dynamics, e.g. for instance for a pair of hairpins on a long note, you have to decide precisely where in the note the top of the crescendo should occur, how loud it should be, what should be the shape of the crescendo - where should be the fastest part of the volume increase. For staccato, you need to decide how hard to tongue the note and how short to make it. In all of these things (and many others) when playing in an orchestra or other ensemble, you need to listen to the other players and adjust your playing to blend with what everyone else is doing. The conductor can help by saying what he wants, and you can follow the beat, but far more important is listening to the other players. There is a fine line to be walked between making your own decisions about phrasing and matching what else is going on. The decision on when to lead and when to match is itself dependent on the musical circumstances. To get these kinds of decisions right requires two things. Firstly, you need to be aware that these are *your* decisions and you have no choice but to do something about them. Second, you just need to do lots of playing in orchestras and ensembles in order to get experience of playing in groups and seeing what works and what doesn't. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn
[Hornlist] In Edinburgh during the festival?
If you are going to be in Edinburgh for the festival, do come along to a concert I'm playing on the Fringe! Airy Delights St Clements Wind Ensemble 12 August, 5pm, at Canongate Kirk Programme is Emil Hartmann, Serenade, Op 43 Johan Kvandal, Night Music Brahms, Serenade in D Op. 11, arranged by yours truly for 13 winds Tickets £10/£5 http://www.concert-diary.com/home/concert_details.asp?id=90661ref=13back=true If you come for the concert, please drop by and say hello afterwards! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] low horn/ bass cleff
So I take it you can hit all those wolf notes? Paxmaha well it sounds more like a dog Bach'ing. Reminds me of about the worst pun in musical history. Bach, and the world Bachs with you. Offenbach, and you Barcarolle. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Who Wins?
2008/6/22 Carlberg Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Some days you get up and put the horn to your chops and it sounds pretty good and you win. Some days you try and nothing works and the horn wins. This goes on and on and then you die and the horn wins. You don't ever master the horn. The best you can achieve is to come to an accommodation with it. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] question
2008/6/9 Bernabe Flores [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have a question. Though I have an opinion of my own, I would like to see how this is practiced by many. If your playing in an orchestra to accompany a horn soloist, how would you decide on your tone quality? Should one player support the tone of the soloist by playing the same or almost the same tone, or play with his own tone? Suppose the music he is playing is mozart. It depends. As principal horn of an orchestra, you play with your own tone. However, you should be capable of adjusting your own tone to the requirements of the piece. For instance Mozart, Bruckner and Shostakovich each require entirely different tones. You need to be aware of how you can change your tone. For instance, some years ago, an orchestra I played in was playing the Rodrigo Concerto di Aranjuez. For the slow movement, I deliberately chose to push the tuning slide in a bit and close the hand a bit more over the bell in order to produce a veiled sound that I thought appropriate for the movement. You do what needs to be done in each different circumstance. As one of the other players in the section, you adjust your tone, tuning, articulation and phrasing in whatever way is necessary for the section to play well *as a unit*. Generally, that means blending as well as you can with whatever the principal is doing. In turn, the principal will be adjusting all of these things to blend in with what the woodwind or other brass are doing, or to blend with the soloist where there is one. I well remember one orchestra I used to play in, the principal horn was consistently flat when he moved into the upper register. So when we were playing together, I would have to constantly adjust my tuning depending on what register his part was in at the moment. Hard work, but that's what was necessary to make the section sound in tune together. When playing the horn in an orchestra, the difference between good players and poor ones is often less to do with technical ability, and more to do with the extent to which the players are prepared to listen carefully to what is going on around them, and adjust their own playing to match. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Run-through rehearsal of Brahms Serenade
A wind group I play with (St Clements Wind Ensemble), is having a run-through rehearsal of a few pieces this Saturday. One of the main pieces we are planning to have a go at is an arrangement I have made for 13 wind instruments of the Brahms Serenade in D Op. 1. Unfortunately some of our regular horns can't make it, so if you are in London on the afternoon of Saturday May 16th, and would like to have a go at this piece, please contact me off-list. We are planning to perform the arrangement during a series of concerts in the Fringe at Edinburgh this August, and may still have a vacancy for a horn there as well. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looow F on vienna horn
Couldn't it be possible ,due to the time period, that what he was inferring was old notation. For you to play the octave above that. It definitely is old notation. The passage I mentioned has an F written on the 4th leger line below the bass stave. 2nd horn has the same passage starting on the F just below the bass stave. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looow F on vienna horn
2008/4/26 michael reeedy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Couldn't it be possible ,due to the time period, that what he was inferring was old notation. For you to play the octave above that. -michael _ Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get in the game. http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jwest%40mvps.org ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
2008/4/24 Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I play a Vienna Horn and my community orchestra has programmed Mahler's 4th for our next program. I've been assigned 3rd Horn since the pedal F notes in the 2nd and 4th parts are generally not assumed to be playable on a single F horn. I was hoping you could provide me with the solution used by Vienna Horn players for this not, since these parts were in all likelihood written for them. I have a copy of all four parts to hand. The bass clef passages are old notation. The only pedal F I can find is in the 4th part, last movement, rehearsal mark 10, where the 2nd 4th horns are in octaves for a slow pianissimo passage, the 4th starting on a minim pedal F, and going on to crotchet G, A, minim B, then crotchet A, G followed by a final minim F. The tempo marking is Wieder plotzlich zuruckhaltend (apologies Hans for not including the necessary umlauts). In other words, the passage is fairly slow and very quiet, which I imagine would leave an opportunity for the player to use hand and lip to push the pitch down to F from F#. As 2nd is playing the same passage an octave above, you would have a good reference pitch for the purpose of adjusting the tuning. Challenging for a single F horn, Vienna or otherwise, but by no means impossible. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Looooow F on Vienna Horn?
Hans We're having the same problem again of the body of your messages not coming through Regards Jonathan West 2008/4/25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jwest%40mvps.org ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] The fun of conducting!
On 02/04/2008, hans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Conducting is really fun if you get the desired result. If you dont get it, conducting might be a burden instead. But it is all up to you. I agree. Of course, you have to make a reasonable target for your definition of the desired result. If my definition is getting a bunch of amateurs to sound like the Berlin Phil, then I'm going to be disappointed. But getting them to sound as as good as they can reasonably achieve and enjoy playing in the process is an entirely reasonable objective. After that, it is a matter of getting the confidence of the players. I know well from playing in orchestras that the players very rapidly form first impressions (i.e. from the first up-beat) as to whether the conductor is any good, and if you make a bad first impression, then it is very hard work to recover. Some people might not have the personal dynamic to be a conductor. Conducting requires a leader personality absolutely, The better you know a piece, the easier as you can predict how it will continue. Last week, I conducted pieces that don't change speed or time signature very often. It's much easier for a novice conductor like myself to cope with such pieces! Also I knew both pieces pretty well, one from having spent a lot of time making the arrangement, the other from having played it many times. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: The fun of conducting!
Though in discussing this with my horn teacher, and the frustration felt on the lack of a clear down beat I commented It's a amazing that the number of people who don't get lost. His reply, You'd be surprised how much an orchestra can accomplish in spite of a conductor. I remember reading a passage in the clarinettist Jack Brymer's autobiography on the subject of conductors. It went something like this: An orchestra can give a performance of a sort without a conductor. A good orchestra can give a good performance with any conductor who lets the orchestra get on with it and doesn't get in the way. A bad conductor can, by dint of hard work and perseverance, get a positively bad performance out of any orchestra. But a great performance is impossible without a great conductor. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Transcriptions
I've recently been listening to quite a bit of Beethoven and Mozart chamber music. It's amazing how many of their own tunes they recycled. Take a couple of examples in Mozart, the Theme Variations from the Gran Partita serenade pops up with entirely different instrumentation as a movement of the Flute Quartet, and the C minor Serenade for wind octet seems to have been recycled more or less whole as one of his string quintets. Tunes from Beethoven's 2nd Symphony also got recycled in a chamber work. I figure that Beethoven and Mozart themselves re-arranged their works for radically different groups, then it is OK for others sensitively to attempt the same. At the moment I'm having a go at re-arranging the Brahms D major Serenade as a wind ensemble piece (2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets, 4 horns, 2 bassoons a contra, the same ensemble as the Strauss Suite Serenade). I think it will work very well. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingering
On 26/02/2008, Borje Lofblad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans and other authoritis, As a new comer on the french horn and a coach to my grand son I have some silly questions. No question asked with a genuine desire to learn something is ever silly! One of my friends in the brass band where I play my cornet, advocates that the standard fingering for both the Bb side and the F side is not the best choice. Since you don't say what alternatives he proposes, it's a bit hard to comment on this. I have realised that he is not at at all correct in this statement, but it is is next to impossible to argue with this man. In that case it is probably better to smile sweetly and not attempt to answer him. I may add that he is no originally french horn player, but a good bone and tuba player. I have also come to understand that the standard fingering is not always that is a law, but nevertheless I believe my friend the bone player does not really know what he is talking about. If he doesn't know what he is talking about, but is impossible to argue with, then all the more reason to smile and say nothing! I may add, that my friend has some funny ideas, that a good horn does not need any fine tuning on the various slides, which of course are far too many compared to a trumpet or cornet. I beg you to accept my English as an excuse for not delivering the proper questions. My grand son has a good teacher, so I rely of course on his advice, but I can nat resist to setting my brass friend right on his very different opinion. Try harder to resist answering. It is by far the best approach. So long as this person's opinions aren't believed by your grandson over the opinions of his teacher, then little harm will be done. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingering
Hi Hans I quite agree with the ignorance of this trombonist The standard fingering (starting with written c1 (first ledger line below staff) on the F-horn is : 0-12-1-2-0-1-2-0-23-12 or 3-1-2-0 --- 2-0-2-0-1-2-0. That is the span from c1 - g2, that´s covered by very young fresh players. On the Bb-Horn it is for the same span: 0-23-12 or 3-1-2-0-12-1 or 13 (better on the F-side with 0) -23-12 or 3-1-2-0-23-12 or 3-1-2-0 or better in tune with 1-2-0 THIS IS LAW. Anything else different is ov evil for a very young player because too confusing. I think it is worth pointing out that these are the standard fingerings because they are the simplest fingerings with the shortest length of tube for each side of the horn that provide each note in tune (always assuming the horn itself is properly tuned). These fingerings are standard because they work! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Tenor Horn in Mahler 7
I'm curious as to what instrument Mahler had in mind (and what instrument is commonly used today, if different) to play the Tenor Horn part for the first movement of Mahler 7. I've never had the opportunity to see a live performance. From listening to it on CD, it sounds rather like a euphonium. (For those of you not familiar with British brass bands, a euphonium is a tenor tuba in Bb. Parts are written in Bb basso. The overall length of tubing is the same as the Bb side of a horn though the bore is of course much wider, and you use trumpet fingering to play it.) Looking at the part (I have it on the Orchestral Musician's CD-ROM) it is pitched in Bb, which would be consistent with it being played on a euphonium or whatever is the German military band equivalent. It goes quite high - the highest note is a written C# above the stave, almost the last thing the tenor horn has to play. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Tenor Horn in Mahler 7
Thank you Bill, that was very informative. Your mention of the saxhorn reminds me of a story related in the autobiography of the clarinettist Jack Brymer, concerning Richard Strauss' last ever concert in London. He was conducting Sinfonia Domestica, which requires huge forces, including 4 saxophones. The fixer took no chances, and booked 4 of London's finest players for the concert. All went well in the rehearsal, but just as everyone was about to go on stage for the concert (which was being broadcast live by the BBC), the fixer, looking rather harried, came up to the saxophone players and said I'm sorry, but Dr. Strauss doesn't want any saxophones. I'm afraid there is nothing I can do except get you seats in the audience for the concert. It later transpired that Strauss had been listening to the BBC Radio 3 presenter describing the symphony, and when the presenter mentioned that the symphony was scored for everything including a kitchen sink and four saxophones, he hit the roof, saying When I put 1, 2, 3, 4 Sax in the score, I meant SaxHORNS, not Saxophones! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Strauss Till Eulenspiegel Horns 5-8
On 20/02/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I get the feeling sometimes, most writers on this list care most about pieces if they include gorgeous horn playing. I simply admire great music, no matter if horns are involved or not. I agree. For relaxation I'll often deliberately choose to listen to music not involving horns, so that my mind is not distracted by thinking about whether some aspect of the way the horns are playing is worth copying. At the moment I'm listening to a Mozart violin sonata. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Tuning of a double horn
The tuning recommendations by pulling out most of the slides in both Bb and F circulation seem a bit complicated for a trumpet player, but I tend to understand that the french horn is a most other animal with a total tubing lengfh well over 12 feet. There aren't that many double trumpets as far as I know. With the horn there are more different lengths of tubing that can be put into the air path. Each one of them needs to be individually tuned. Since the adjustment of each affects the tuning of all notes that use that bit of tubing, to a different degree depending on what other tubing is in the air path, all tuning is going to be rather a compromise, and yes it is more complex than on the trumpet. Now to my question. With a high class french horn I would expect that all slides both on the Bb side and the F side would be matched to produce perfect tuning, and not require any particular adjustments. If all the slides were nominally perfectly in tune, nobody would ever be able to sharpen a horn. Therefore, the horns are designed and manufactured so that with the slides fully pushed in, the horn will be somewhat sharp. You then pull the slides out a bit to get the horn perfectly tuned (or as near to perfect as the inevitable compromises will allow.) Certainly, the better quality horns give you better tuning through better design and manufacture. But some compromises remain simply as a result of the laws of physics. I tend to understand , that it ies outsida the possibilities to design a french horn , that does no need tuning. On the other hand you can and will make a lot of intonation with your embochure. That is easier to do in the lower range than the upper range. In the upper range, trying to adjust tuning with the embouchure carries a high risk of flipping onto the wrong harmonic altogether. Anyway, the better in tune your horn is without adjusting your embouchure, the easier the horn is to play, and the more secure and confident you can be that you will hit the right notes. I am sorry for bringing up these amateurish questions, but I want to know as much as possible in order to assist my grand son. Ask away! I much prefer to see someone on the list who honestly wants to learn about these things than someone who thinks thay already know it all. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Fingering
For the moment I have to questions, one is the recommendation for fingering on the Bb and F side of a double horn. He has an Alexander 103 double horn. My advice is that your grandson become thoroughly familiar with the fingerings of both sides of the horn, across the full range. That means learning most of his studies twice, once on the F side and once on the Bb side. The fingering charts of most study books will give you the main conventional fingerings for both sides. In the upper register, the harmonics are sufficiently close together that a host of alternative fingerings are possible. In due course, your grandson may want to understand these alternatives in order to find easier fingerings for very fast and difficult passages, but that is probably some years away. Start with the conventional fingerings for each side. Whether to predominantly play Bb side or F side when playing pieces is a matter of individual preference. I tend for the most part to play on the Bb side across the whole range, except for first space F# second line G, which are rather flat on the Bb side. But my local orchestra is playing Bruckner 4 this spring, and for that piece the slightly darker tone of the F side seems to suit better, so I'll probably play most of it on the F side. Handstopping requires use of the F side, and so you need to be familiar with F side fingerings (and the ability to transpose while playing on the F side). Even if your grandson has a stop mute, there are occasions when there isn't time to pick it up, and so handstopping still needs to be mastered, which usually means using the F side, even if the Bb side is predominantly used for open playing. Also, there are passages which fall under the fingers far more easily on the F side, but if you aren't familiar with F side fingerings, you can't take advantage of it. And the second question is on the tuning of the horn. It seems to me that there are several opinions on this issue. Of course. Your choice of tuning system will depend to a certain extent on your choice of F or Bb side for most playing. I also play an Alex 103, and I tune it as follows. On the Bb side, I ensure that a top line F is perfectly in tune open. In doing so, I pull out the main and Bb tuning slides by about the same amount. I have noticed it is a common problem of horn players to play flat in the upper register, so I tune to that F rather than the octave below. The harmonics are spaced further apart lower down, and so it is far easier to lip notes into tune in the lower register. I then tune top space E and Eb to be in tune with 2nd 1st valve respectively. A quick check to see that D is OK with 1-2 (In theory it will be a tiny bit sharp, but pretty much undetectably so). Then I tune the 3rd valve so that Db is in tune played 2-3. I generally avoid using 3 alone for notes that can be fingered 1-2, so 2-3 is by far the most common fingering using the 3rd valve, and so most needs to be in tune. Once the valve slides are in tune, they will rarely if ever need further adjustment. Then it is time to tune the F side. The same technique should be used, except you start with 3rd space C and move down through B, Bb and Ab. If you are used to lipping notes up or down to match the tuning of your surroundings, it is a good idea to get a tuning machine, place it on the stand in front of you. Then close your eyes, play the note you want to check the tuning of, and only open them to check the tuner setting once you feel it is nice and centered. If you look at the tuner as you attack the note, the temptation will be to lip the note into tune. Once the horn is properly in tune with itself, if you need to adjust to match the tuning of an orchestra, adjust the main tuning slide, and perhaps a small additional adjustment on the F side tuning slide. You shouldn't need to adjust the valves. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] B-flat or F fingerings in the low register
But we teach them in a wrong way just fingerings instead make them able to understand the harmonic series the relations of the tones each other. I remember at about age 10 working out the basis of the Bb side fingerings by myself and carefully drawing a chart that showed how the Bb fingerings were off from the F fingerings by a 4th. I took it to show my teacher, who didn't seem to be impressed, and as far as I can remember thought I had misunderstood what the Bb side was about and how the fingerings worked. He had simply been teaching me fingerings out of the book and seemed uninterested in how the harmonic sequence controlled things. I'm pretty sure I did get the chart right, because I don't remember my understanding of the harmonic sequence and of fingerings changing radically since. It has been refined a bit by a better understanding of which harmonics are a bit out of tune relative to equal temperament, but the basic understanding has not changed. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] B-flat or F fingerings in the low register
When I was in college and studying with Nolan Miller of the Philadelphia orchestra, I would sometimes stumble when playing because, knowing and using all the available fingerings, I would freeze trying to pick the right one, even after practicing a piece numerous times. His recommendation was to lock into a standard fingering pattern and to only deviate from it for purposes of improved tuning or special effects. Most people end up being predominantly Bb-side players, or predominantly F-side players, or fairly commonly mainly Bb side in the upper register and mainly F side in the lower register. There is nothing wrong with this. All those options are perfectly tenable. I happen to be a predominantly Bb-sided player myself, with just a few notes that are usually played on the F side. My point is that you have to know both sides thoroughly so that you are able to switch for purposes of improved tuning or special effects, know when it is appropriate to do so, and be able to do it without stumbling. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] B-flat or F fingerings in the low register
Will some of you please discuss your rationale for fingerings in the Low C#- F register? In terms of scales, in my opinion students should practice in three ways 1. Everything on the F side 2. Everything on the Bb side except for notes that can't be reached on the Bb side 3. Whatever sensible mixed fingering is convenient and produces a good tone. For the mixed fingering, G and F# should of course more or less always be on th F side. As for F downwards, it depends very much on the player and the instrument. Personally I tend to use the Bb side in the whole F to C# range, as I find the notes blow more freely on the Bb side on my horn. But if I want a particular velvety tone for a soft entry, then I may switch to the F side for the purpose. But it is necessary to know your scales on both sides and be thoroughly familiar with both sets of fingerings in order to be able to switch easily for whatever purpose you might need. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] B-flat or F fingerings in the low register
On 25/09/2007, Steve Freides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan, don't you think for a sixth grader, that's asking too much? No I don't. Of course, 6th graders wouldn't be expected to practice all the more obscure scales, but if they have a double horn, then I think that it is reasonable that they should learn how to handle both sides of it. That means scales and etudes they are learning should be practiced on both sides of the horn. I know my son's teacher wanted him to learn a single fingering for every note on the horn to avoid confusion. Unless there is more to it than you have described here, I would respectfully suggest that the teacher's approach is ill-advised, Once the repertoire started to get more difficult, he began to introduce different fingers for particular passages but otherwise, my son basically looks at the thumb valve as just another key he plays. In part, that is good, but if he is forced to use the thumb key because he has no idea of alternative fingerings that would provide better effect in certain circumstances, then the teacher has done him a disservice. For instance if the teacher has suggested that everything from 2nd-line G downwards should be played on the F side, and everything above on the Bb side (a suggestion that has been floated on this list in the recent past), then your son may have some difficulty achieving a clean slur up a 4th from G to C. But that slur is fairly easy if it is done with both notes played open on the F side. Once you have learned not to hit the Bb on the way up, you can get a beautifully clean slur, much cleaner than you can get when moving the thumb valve, which inevitably results in the air having to start resonating in a long new length of tubing. Even more difficult would be a slur from F to Bb, wich would be cleaner either as a lip slur on the F side, or a 0-1 slur on the Bb side. But these alternatives aren't available unless the pupil has sufficient facility on both sides of the instrument to take advantage of them. I agree with everything you've said, but the question originally posed mentioned students as young as sixth grade, and I think what you're suggesting might be the sort of things better left to those slightly older. I was learning and using both sides of the instrument by that age. Of course, with a younger and less advanced pupil, you set work appropriate to their current level of achievement. But the overall objective should always be equal facility on both sides. If fork to that objective is not started fairly early, then the pupil can become too used to whichever was the side they started on, and learning the alternative fingerings becomes unnatural and is avoided if the pupil can get away with it. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Hearing yourself on the Radio for the first time
Any interesting stories? More years ago than I care to count, BBC Radio 3 decided to record part of a concert of the University of London Orchestra, where I was playing 1st horn at the time, for broadcast as part of their Youth Orchestras of the World series. One of the pieces recorded was the orchestral suite from West Side Story. In the horn solos, I had thought I was producing plenty of sound, but when I heard it later on the broadcast, the solos didn't come through nearly as much as I had intended. It taught me a very important lesson about projecting sound so that it will be right when heard by someone well back in the audience. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mahler 9
You mean for free? Probably not, but you can buy vol 2 of the Orchestral Musician's CD-Rom Library (http://www.orchmusiclibrary.com/) for about $20, and that includes all the horn parts for all the Mahler symphonies as well as various other of Mahler's orchestral works. It also includes horn parts for all Bruckner's symphonies, plus orchestral works by Bizet, Bruch, Busoni, Dubussy, Faure, Grieg, Reger Saint-Saens. Worth $20 I think! :-) Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mozart Sinfonia no.29 in A
On 20/08/07, hans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jonathan, you are absolutely right. Today´s young less young players are much better prepared - technically - than we were or are, but they miss the music all too often or completely. Everything needs to be set up, nothing from the heart, nothing naturally (with few exceptions, by far not enough exceptions !). I suspect that has been true of young players throughout the ages, with rare exceptions. I think it is perhaps unfair to complain that young players lack a maturity which requires age and experience they have not yet had an opportunity to acquire. For instance, I learned Strauss 2 while I was at college. At least, I learned the notes. Quite frankly I couldn't make head or tail of it musically, particularly the first movement (though I lacked the maturity at the time to fully realise the fact). A couple of years ago, I was asked to participate in a performance of the Sonatina for Wind Happy Workshop, which was another of Strauss's Indian Summer pieces. And as I listened to it and practiced my part, and as we rehearsed it I gradually felt I understood better what Strauss was on about. I listened to several other of his late works and gained insight from them as well. I suspect that years of playing and listening to much other music has also contributed. I don't think it is possible to understand Strauss without also having listened extensively to Mozart, Schumann, Wagner, Bruckner and Mahler, among others. Now, 25 years on from when I first learned the concerto, I think I could now manage a fairly musical performance of it. Of course, as an amateur player I'm not likely ever to be asked to perform it! But that doesn't bother me. It is enough to know that I have learned enough that I could give it a go, even though there is always more still to learn. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mozart Sinfonia no.29 in A
On 19/08/07, hans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is so difficult with this symphony ? I have received several stories about it, that it is feared very much horn players are just happy when the horns are back in their case. Yes, off course, it is a difficult piece, IF PLAYED ON THE REGULAR BIG HORNS. But this symphony - I nicknamed it THE UNAVOIDABLE - is a standard for every professional chamber orchestra, which required a very light sound from the horns. Surely much the same can be said about the horn parts for most Mozart works? In fact, I wouldn't rate the 29th symphony as the most difficult of Mozart's orchestral works. It certainly has its challenges, and the held high Gs for horn in A have to be approached with delicacy. But there are other Mozart works I think are tougher for the horns, for instance the Piano Concerto No. 18 in B flat, which has a number of very exposed sustained high Gs for horn in B flat alto. To day we have the right instruments to produce this very special silvery sound: the single high-F horn. I accept that the single descant F horn can make it much easier to play such pieces with the lightness of touch that is necessary, but it seems to me that the musicality with which you approach the piece is more important than the instrument you use. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Pedagogical tools (was Mouthpiece buzzing)
On 09/08/07, Johnson, Timothy A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jonathan, I did not intend to imply that Reba was a beginning or unprofessional player. That is why I changed the subject line and omitted her original comments that prompted the new thread. I was responding to your comment that buzzing had little value. As others have supplied better articulated support for a similar position such as held by Arnold Jacobs, I'll leave it at that. I did point out a number of cases where buzzing was useful - practicing, where your horn is unavailable, and for diagnostic purposes in lessons. I've not yet had a chance to look up Wendell's links on the subject, but I will, and comment more after that. All I can say is that my experience has not given me reason to need to buzz in circumstances other than those I have described. As far as I can see, The key point if you want to devise a new teaching technique is first to define the learning intention. In other words, what are you trying to get the student to achieve with the lesson? Now, it is quite probable that Arnold Jacobs and others did have a specific learning intention in mind with their buzzing exercises, and some people here have mentioned what those learning intentions might be. I suspect others have simply been told that buzzing is a good idea and so do it because they were told to, and in turn tell their pupils to, without there being any understanding as to why. This does, however, lead me to wonder about some of the pedagogical tools that are used without necessarily understanding why or when they may no longer be useful ( I am certainly not referring to anyone on this list). Thus, if Arnold Jacobs recommended buzzing a particular song and that got passed along without his rationale, it may be that it has taken on the status of a totem. Perhaps its value does not require full comprehension, but I suspect that it will be more valuable if understood. An awful lot of teaching practice (and not just on the horn, this is in education generally) is based on somebody trying something, finding it works for them, and the idea getting passed from hand to hand, often without anybody really analysing matters closely. Education is still much more of an art than a science, and it is my opinion that it will remain so until we can usually answer the question How can you know that what you are doing is right?. At present, we susually don't know, and are working with our best guess, on the basis that it is probably better than our second-best guess. I'll give another example. I was at a middle school concert not too long ago, and it sounded like there was a 50 member percussion section. Nearly all the players were dutifully tapping (some almost stomping) their right foot, just as their teacher told them to. My sons were taught, as I was taught, to tap a foot in order to internalize the beat. At what point does one instruct students to break that habit? I never was. I play in the Minnesota State Band; we had one recording session ruined because someone was heavily tapping a foot and it was picked up by the recording equipment. I would regard that as exceedingly bad teaching. If you are wanting to play together, you have to listen to each other and watch the conductor to ensure that you are all in time together. I would actively discourage foot-tapping while playing, since it gives you a false sense of security in terms of your belief that you are in time with anything other than your foot. If you looked carefully during the middle school concert, you may have noticed that the feet weren't quite all in time with each other! If a student can manage to internalize the beat without foot tapping, then that should be done, in order to avoid bad habits getting established in the first place. There are plenty of techniques available for helpring with that, some involving using a metronome, others without. If some physical movement is found to be absolutely necessary, let be a movement of the pupil's toes *inside* their shoe! How about tuning one's horn to concert B flat (just because that is what the band always tunes to)? Tuning to a Bb is a pretty good idea. In one of the community orchestras I play in, the oboe does give a tuning Bb to the brass before giving an A to the rest of the orchestra. On the F side, a concert A is not a very good note to tune to, because the open E tends to be a bit on the flat side. Provided your valves are properly in tune (and once they are, they should rarely if ever need adjusting) tuning to a concert Bb by playing F open on the Bb side or with 1 on the F side will probably give you better results. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Pedagogical Tools
tends to be sharp on most horns. It doesn't tend to be sharp, it IS sharp unless you have tuned your slides just for that note, which will, of course throw off all your first and second valve notes.) Fine. To suggest tuning to an open Bb concert on Bb horn, however, is very dangerous. This note is an extremely wide slot and is virtually useless for tuning because of that unless you are an expert at centering pitches consistently, which i find to be a big problem with many players. For such players, tuning the horn right isn't going to help them much, because their pitch will be wobbling all over the place anyway. On other occasions here, I have made it clear that I regard tuning as something that has to be checked and adjusted if necessary on every note you play, and that you must listen to the players around you in order to know what adjustments to make. It is impossible to play consistently in tune unless you are listening sufficently carefully to others to know the precise pitch you should be aiming for, and also have sufficient control over the instrument to make the necessary instantaneous small adjustments. As it happens, when tuning at the start of a rehearsal, I tend to play either a B or a fourth-space E when tuning to A, in order to play a note that is higher in the register and therefore can't be bent so easily. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Anybody in Edinburgh next week?
If so, do please come along to a concert I'm playing in on the Edinburgh Fringe. I'm playing in the St Clements Wind Ensemble, on 14, 15, 16 August in Canongate Kirk, at 5pm each day. The program is Milhaud The Creation of the World, Frank Martin Concerto for Wind and Piano, and Richard Strauss Sonatina No. 1 From an Invalid's Workshop. The Strauss especially has some lovely writing for the horn! If you come, do please introduce yourself afterwards, its always nice to meet in person people I only know by email. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: [horn] High Range
I'm still having troubles with my high range. Could you guys just give me a list of the components of a good high range? What to do, what not to do, etc.? Also, as I go higher, I tend to roll my bottom lip farther and farther over my bottom teeth, which exaggerates my overbite. Is this bad? Yes that is bad. I suspect that this is part of a wider problem, of generally tightening up as you go into the upper range. Not just lips, but throat and shoulders as well. The net effect of this whan I have seen it is that the player sounds like a strangled cow in the upper register, even for those notes he can reach. High notes are achieved with a surprisingly modest tightening of the lips. The main work done to reach high notes is done with the diaphragm, providing exta air support. To demonstrate this, play a long note in your upper register (but not right at the top of it), and try to slur up to the next harmonic by changing nothing but the amount of air support you provide. Try not to make any conscious changes in your lips at all. Also make a positive effort not to tighten your throat or to tense up in any other way. Gaining an upper register takes time and is tiring. Don't try to do too much each day, otherwise you will get into bad habits of increased tension and suchlike by trying while tired. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece buzzing
What are your thoughts on tongue placement in the mouth? I am getting lots of conflicting opinions on this. Some people think it should be high to facilitate good articulation, and others think it should be low to open up the oral cavity and sound ??? I guess...I'm not really sure why some people think it should be low. This is a point on which you will get conflicting opinions, based largely on the fact that none of us can actually see our tongues while playing, and we are relying on our imperfect ability to describe what we feel. I simply tongue in exactly the way I pronounce the letter 't', with the tongue against the same part of the roof of my mouth. For me, there is a small ridge of flesh behind the upper incisors, just before the roof of the mouth slopes upwards. That is what I tongue against for both normal and fast articulations. So (unlike John Dutton) my tongue does not touch the back of my teeth on any occasion. John also describes no speakies. My diagnosis of such occasions is that it is almost always not a defect in tonguing, but rather that the player is not maintaining enough air support. There should always be sufficient air to start and hold a note even without the use of the tongue to kick things off. The tongue then simply adds definition to the start of the note by interrupting the air column. If you ever find yourself suffering from this, try to huff the start of a note without tonguing it at all. Once you can do that, then huff the same amount and hold the air back with the tongue and then release it. Secure entries every time! When sustaining a note, my tongue simply rests in its normal place, where it would be if you sing aah. The idea is that when it is not being used, its job is to stay out of the way so as to give you an uninterrupted air passage. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: [horn] High Range
Oops, sorry about that, got my horn lists mixed up! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] What should I be doing in the practice room?
What about using mouthpiece buzzing in the practice room? I had a teacher once that wanted me to buzz pop goes the weasel all the time. I did not get the point of it, and right now I do almost no buzzing in the practice room. Can you mouthpiece buzz without a piano? When and where and how in a practice session is this productive? If you have a horn available to play, then I see little use in mouthpiece buzzing. As far as I'm concerned, mouthpiece buzzing is of limited use, basically to try to keep your lip in where you can't play the horn itself because it would disturb your neighbors, or because you are travelling and cannot take the horn with you. But if those situations don't apply, then I think it better to spend your time actually practicing the horn. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece buzzing
Hi Timothy Reba by all accounts is a fairly advanced player - she had a professional position in an army band. It isn't clear from her account that she is playing professionally with her present group, but I guess from her account that she does, and in addition she teaches. Therefore your point with regard to younger players is probably not applicable to her. The key necessaity you have identified is to hear the note in your head so you know what you are aiming at. That is a skill of listening and visualisation. If with younger players it helps to use a bit of mouthpiece buzzing in the lesson to drive this point home, then that sounds like a good idea. But once the technique has been established, I see no particular reason to use mouthpiece buzzing in private practice. The mere act of buzzing doesn't help the visualisation, and if the player hasn't been able to work out a large interval, buzzing the interval during practice is not going to change that. As regards buzzing clearing up problems of too much pressure or tension, you aren't specific as to how this helps, but again I suspect you are thinking of using it as a diagnostic tool within a lesson rather than as a means of changing habits during private practice. But if I am mistaken in that, I would be happy for you to explain further. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Who is Reba?
Hi Wendell The title of your post sounds like it ought to be a song by Schubert :-) Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] What should I be doing in the practice room?
practicing playing those difficult bits right (albeit slowly to start with. Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent, and you want to cause your practice to get you to permanently play passages correctly. Repeatedly playing correctly instills those habits and memories. Hope this helps! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] What should I be doing in the practice room?
Hi Reba, Obviously you can't practice ensemble playing on your own, therefore you have to prcatice something else. To me, it would seem that obvious things to work on are as follows. 1. The pieces you will be playing next season. If you can, get hold of your parts and practice them, and listen to recordings and read your part while listening, so you get used to how the music goes and where your entries come. If you can't get the paper parts, buy yourself the various volumes of the horn parts from the Crchestral Musicians CD ROM and print off the parts from there. 2. Sightreading. Effective ensemble playing depends on good sightreading, so that you don't panic on reading through the part the first time, and have concentration to spare on looking at the conductor. If you improve your sightreading, then you will sound impressive on the first rehearsal, whatever the piece is. 3. Technique. Practice all the scales etudes you may have been neglecting recently, particularly any etudes that you feel will sharpen up any weaker aspects of your playing. That way, anything that comes your way next season is less likely to feel difficult. If you do the above solidly, diligently and intelligently for a month, the chances are that you will actually sound better than if you had been playing with an ensemble over the summer. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] What should I be doing in the practice room?
to tell your orchestra a terrible tale and ask this public forum for advice on how to keep your secret is mighty brave. The original lie was also completely unnecessary. If you are professional, then your employers have no business at all concerning themselves with what you do when not working for them. It is most unlikely they care in the slightest provided that you play effectively on your return. In fact, to lie about it is probably worse than honestly saying you intend taking time off to recharge your batteries and come back fresh next season. If you are an amateur, even less reason to be concerned. Amateurs play for the fun of it. If you are a student, and have gone against the advice of your teachers in not going off on the festival orchestra, then the fact is that news of your absence will make its way back, and you will be in trouble anyway. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Student Question
The important thing is not that she always uses F side from G downwards, but that she becomes familiar with fingerings on both sides, and so can use either side as appropriate for the context of a passage. In my opinion it is *not* necessary to change to F side in the middle-to-lower register if the tone quality and tuning is fine when playing on the Bb side. Sometimes G and F# can be rather flat fingered 1 and 1-2 respectively on the Bb side, and this can justify putting those notes on the F side for slower passages. On the other hand, forcing a change of side at that breakpoint in all (or even most) circumstances is inappropriate in my view - it can lead to awkward fingerings for passages that span the break. Better in such cases to play the whole passage on the same side - Bb or F depending on which is more convenient for the specific passage. In order to be able to use the F side when it is appropriate, it is necessary to be familiar with the F side fingerings. That requires F side practice. That is a perfectly reasonable thing to insist on. As it happens, I don't change to F side at that breakpoint, and play on Bb across most of the range in most circumstances. Many years ago when I was a student under Hugh Seenan and later Douglas Moore, neither of them made any comment on the fact that I predominantly used the Bb side, and concentrated instead on my producing a good tone quality. There are occasions when I play a passage all F side. An example was when I played recently in a performance of the Dvorak Serenade for Wind. The end of the finale has the first horn playing a rapid repeated triplet arpeggio A-C#-E. It was far easier to play 1-2 on the F side for all 3 notes than to change the fingerings for each note. I suggested to the other two horns, who at that point play lower inversions of the same arpeggio, that they use the same F side fingering as well, both for security and to achieve consistency of tuning between us. They did, and it sounded very well and exciting in the performance. Another example in the same piece has the first horn slurring up from G to C in a slower solo passage. As this slur is one I regularly include in my warmup as a pure lip slur on the F side, it is cleaner for me to use the F side for both notes, even though it moves into a range where many horn players would tend to use the Bb side at least for the upper note. Changing sides for that slur all-too-easily causes there to be a bit of a clunk to be heard in the transition. A lip slur smoothly achieved has a much more pleasing effect provided you avoid hitting the Bb in passing on your way up. So, to the specific issue of your pupil, I think you should insist that she is familiar with the F side and does a reasonable amount of practice on it. Specify some etudes to be practiced F side only and insist that she can play scales on both sides with equal facility. But I would recommend you back off your insistance that she uses F side by default in the lower register. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] re: National Symphony and the year 1812
An orchestra over here was denied permission to perform the 1812 Overture because the hall's health and safety officer was concerned that the cannon effects might precipitate heart attacks in the audience. I remember a story my parents once told me of a performance of 1812 they played in about 40 years ago, in Brent Town Hall in London. Cannon and mortar effects were banned as a result of a local bye-law prohibiting explosive materials inside the building. A microphone for the PA system was placed inside one of the timps instead! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 53, Issue 11
No question that Mahler and Strauss and others were cribbed by Hollywood composers - think of the original Star Trek theme (straight out of the first movement of Mahler's 7th), There's a short passage in the first movement of Mahler 6 (just after rehearsal mark 33) that sounds like the inspiration for every bit of movie music ever written by John Williams. And I thought that the first few bars of the last movement of Mahler 6 (celeste, harp, strings) could have been used absolutely unmodified to accompany the first sight of Hogwarts School :-) Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Teaching Children
A few years ago, I started teaching privately again, and also teaching one night per week at the local Community College, usually a course in Music Appreciation that's specifically _not_ for serious music students - and I love being the person who helps these people come to understand something about music for the first time in their lives. The best part of teaching the course is reading the required concert review paper - a typical reaction is something like, I never would have been able to sit through, let alone understand, a concert like this before I took this class. That's worth all the tea in China to me. There is a wonderful resource that may help you with this kind of music appreciation teaching http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/audioarchive.shtml In each program in the series (and there are about 3 or 4 years of programs archived), the presenter takes a piece apart and puts it back together, showing how the composer worked with form, tone color, orchestration, rhythm, stucture etc, illustrated with short excepts from the piece played by the orchestra, or by individual sections within the orchestra. Also very useful if you come across it is a 4-part TV series called How Music Works presented by Howard Goodall. The four episodes each concentrate on a different aspect of music - Melody, Harmony, Rhythm and Bass. Examples are taken from all over, not merely classical music. For instance, the Bass program has examples from Richard Strauss to Nina Simone. It is quite striking how many good classical techniques have been borrowed by pop and jazz composers! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Preparing Great Music
Hello Fred, you are doing it right absolutely, but ... The problem is another than many thought: linking one´s playing with the other players, synchronizing to form ONE body of music. A few years ago, I had the good fortune to play in an orchestral workshop conducted by Simon Rattle, with him taking us through Bruckner 9. One of the things he most passionately insisted upon was that it wasn't enough for us merely to follow his beat, we had to *listen* to each other and ensure that we were playing together and in a common style. To demonstrate this, at one point he started us off on a passage and then stopped beating while we carried on playing. He cued individual entries by looking at the player concerned and raising his right eyebrow. There was a significant improvement in our playing! His comment was you know, conducting is one of the great fake professions... Fred, if you are in an orchestra where a significant number of the players are still playing their instruments rather than the music, it will be frustrating if you are trying to do better. In an amateur orchestra there is little that can be done, apart from trying to find a better orchestra. If the bassoons aren't getting their rhythms right, then there might be a need for a sectional rehearsal for the wind so that these things can be concentrated on. A quiet word with the conductor might be appropriate. As for how to prepare for playing music, it sounds like you are going the right general way about it. You need to know your instrument and the notes sufficiently well that neither gets in the way of the music, and in addition to listening to recordings, you need to listen to the rest of the orchestra and blend in. Regards Jonathan ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: 8D from a non-Conn artist
Bill H offered this: Many ways to skin a cat, and for our section, the 8D does just fine. *** I hope you you will fill us in on how to skin a cat with an 8D, Bill. This is an aspect of horn technique which seems to be missing from Farkas's book. Alas, I have lost my copy of Dauprat's Méthode d'écorcher un chat. Besides, it was never updated for the modern valve horn. LOL. Wonderful! A fine Cabbaging! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Horn and Clarinet
Trio in B flat, op. 274 by Carl Reinecke clarinet, horn and piano. Published by Musica Rara An extended work in the romantic style. Beautiful writing! I remember first having a run-through of that piece as a student not long after I had spent a lot of time working on the Britten Serenade. After the astringent sound of the Britten, it seemed awfully syrupy. But once I had gotten by ears accustomed to the idiom I found it a pleasent enough piece - not outstandingly great music by any means but definitely enjoyable. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question
As Steven said, I'm sure Bartok's intention was that you hand stop alternate bars. Bartok I'm sure knew enough about the horn to know about hand stopping and the effect that can be achieved with rapid changed between stopped and open notes. I'm not familiar with the piece, but can you describe exactly how those bars are notated? Do they say con sord and senza sord or are the notes on alternate bars marked with a + sign? I rather suspect the latter, in which case Bartok's intention is perfectly clear - he intended the notes to be hand stopped. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question
Jonathan, in all honour, who of the younger players is using hand stopping ? If I look around, all use the stopping mute thus the trouble complications. They never think about the right use of the right hand. They learned it that way. Why ? Because they play everything except low g on the Bb-side, - at least here in Europe. Hi Hans, Well, I'm of the younger generation (at least, I'm a generation younger than you, I have a good 20 years to go before retirement) and I was taught handstopping in my teenage years. I don't own and never have owned a stopping mute. I never saw the necessity. If anybody asks me, I make it clear that handstopping is a necessary technique to learn if you want to become proficient on the horn, precisely because pieces like the Bartok make use of the technique. I'm sure you know even better than I do the range of pieces that make use of handstopping, including quite a few where rapid changes between stopped and open take place. And that includes some quite mainstream orchestral pieces. For instance, if I recall correctly the Polovtsian Dances from Prince Igor have a passage for horn where you have to alternate between stopped and open for consecutive notes. There's no way you can do that with a stopping mute! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: transposing
In the debate on transposition, one point I haven't seen is the importance of knowing your scales and arpeggios. For instance, if you know the A major arpeggio and scale absolutely securely, then you already have much of what it takes to read horn in D. You just see an arpeggio in C major and you finger it in A major, and once you get used to the idea, it happens almost automatically. Since most transposed parts are written in C major (and often largely restrict themselves to the arpeggio and some higher notes in the harmonic sequence) thinking into the fingering of the scale you need works very well. But it can't work like that unless you KNOW YOUR SCALES! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Transposing
Do you think the audience hears more missed notes due to transposition mess-ups? OR Do you think the audience hears more missed notes due to a confusing amount of notation in transposed parts? Relatively few in the audience will notice such things at all. Of them, only a minority will notice which instrument is involved. Of those, only a minority will have ever heard of transposition, and even fewer will care. They mostly just want to enjoy hearing the music and aren't in the least bit concerned about the techniques involved in producing the sound. It is for us to sort that out - that is what they are paying for their concert tickets for! We have to work with whatever music we are given. Since that includes transposed parts from time to time, it is necessary just to get on with it. Actually, I'm so used to playing classical-era pieces using transposed parts, that it is really quite disconcerting when I find myself playing that kind of piece and am given a part written out in F. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] trills
My question is also about the trill, but the trill in general. How do you start the trill? From the lower tone or from the upper tone? Either, depending on circumstances. Is it a question of stile, or a question of time when was the music written? A bit of both. Baroque trills more often started on the upper note, in classical and later music, it tends more often to start on the lower note, but this is far from being a hard-and-fast rule. Or is it just that people don't know. It is more that the notation is not specific, and interpretation varies in different times and places. Sometimes there simply isn't a single right way of doing things. Music is like that simetimes! Many soloists of Mozart Horn Concertos start the trills from above, which I believe is wrong. Unusual perhaps, but not *necessarily* wrong. For instance, some of the crotchet-length trills in the first movement of K495 could start on the upper note and sound quite convincing. What time periode asks for what kind of trills? Is it correct to start baroque period trills from the top note? I think Leopold Mozart wrote down some rules. Thanks for investigations. Bach included instructions on playing ornaments at the start of the Klavierbuchlein fur Wilhelm Friedemann Bach. Others have written instructions on how to play ornaments since. I suspect that no two books will be entirely consistent with each other on the subject. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] For Teachers of the Horn
A question about instructional technique. If you assign a student an etude, is the objective to have the student play it correctly or do you have your student move on to something else once you feel that the student has achieved 80% of having it correct. If you are going at assign an etude, you need first to decide what you are trying to get the student to learn. Determining the learning objective is the first and most important aspect of teaching. Having done that, you pick an etude that you think will help in that direction, and you leave it when the student has achieved the objective, whether or not there is anything more that might be obtained from the etude. That doesn't prevent you from coming back to the same etude at a later date with a different learning objective (e.g. a higher degree of polish, managing phrases in fewer breaths or whatever), or even as a refresher on the original learning objective if the student has become sloppy on that point in the meantime. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Thoughts on lip trills
But how, Jonathan, about the half step, written e - f Where in the literature ? Doesn't matter. As the purpose of the etude is to practice lip trills between a range of adjacent harmonics, the fact that the f is out of tune isn't of all that great importance, though if you can manage a trill that sounds in tune between that pair of harmonics, so much the better. Of course, for concert use, I would trill from e to f using the 2nd valve on the Bb side. But Simon referred to an etude with a named specific learning objective. There's no point in using valve trills in an exercise whose specific purpose is developing facility in lip trills. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Homeland security
Yes, this event looks crazy to us. But immagine that you are in charge of Homeland security, and have to prevent all kinds of possible attacks... Didn't you know that a horn is a WMD? - a Weapon of Melodic Delight... Can't allow them into the country! Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] BBC Proms
The NYO is taken from among the best of Britain's school-age musicians. They are all at least Grade 8 distinction standard (i.e. about the standard you would need to reach in order to enter one of the music colleges.) That concert (and all others they give) is preceded by a 2-week intensive residential course, of about 6 hours rehearsal per day. There are a lot of sectionals in the first week, with the proportion of full rehearsals increasing as the course progresses. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fw: 2007 Reading Music Clinic
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which country? Don't stop there! What city? Looks like it is Durham NC. USA Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE ; Conductors, difference between Old School and New School
He went on to say that the LA Horn Club did it with their own interpretation that didn't match what he had written. Saying further that since the recording he hardly every heard it played in any other manner than that of the recording. You don't need recordings for that sort of thing to happen. I believe that the fashion in British orchestras for very many years was to play the first 4 notes of Beethoven 5 *way* below the written tempo. It is still done by some conductors. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
In my view, many of the same characteristics are needed for a conductor of amateur groups as for professional, but perhaps not in such concentrated form. One key difference is that amateurs play for enjoyment, and if they stop enjoying themselves they will stop playing or go elsewhere. That means that the conductor of an amateur group has to go about his business more by encouragement. That doesn't mean avoiding criticism, but concentrating the criticism on a specific point rather than on the player in general, and where possible asking for something to be played differently without implying it was wrong before - after all there are many different approaches to music making! I have no time for amateur conductors (or amateur groups for that matter) who aren't genuinely trying to produce the very best performance they are capable of. I would much rather play with a group of lesser ability that is trying to improve than a better group that has become lazy and complacent. In other words, a professional *attitude* needs to be brought to rehearsal and performance irrespective of the quality of the players. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
3) Hold your instructive comments until a substantial portion of the piece has been played-- better, wait until the movement is finished. Then go over your long list of comments with everyone. My biggest gripe is aimed at conductors who stop every time they have some comment to make-- this may be acceptable for the pro ranks, but it is totally unacceptable for amateur groups. Remember that amateurs are there to enjoy the music, not to be micromanaged by a neurotic conductor-- and there are many of these out there. I don't think this is necessarily the case. I have no objection to stops, provided that the stops are brief, and what the conductor says is to the point. I would rather there be a run-through towards the end of the rehearsal (if there's time) rather than at the beginning. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] assistant principals
And I once bumped a very well known player (now retired) in Stravinsky's 'Rite of Spring' with the instruction of it doesn't matter if you do not play - you can leave the horn in its case for all we care - you are there to make sure he (the 1st horn) does not get lost and WOE BETIDE YOU if you let him!! That reminds me of a music course I attended a few years ago, where the main piece being learned was Mahler 5. We had a harpist who just couldn't count. (In my experience, this appears to a be a particularly common affliction of harpists for some reason). There were two conductors on the course, so for the informal performance at the end of the course, the second conductor sat next to the harpist for the Adagietto, and whispered 1, 2, 3, 4 into her ear for the entire movement to keep her in the same point in the music as the rest of the orchestra! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] assistant principals
Unfortunately, if she missed an entry, she would not join in when she found her place, but would start back where she should have started and play it very quickly until she caught up with everyone else. The first time I heard it, it was funny. The opposite of that is the orchestral definition of ostinato: If you get lost, jump 3 lines and play the same bar over and over again *until it fits* and then press on with the general throng. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Alex 103 - history?
I bought an Alexander 103 in 1980 with money I saved from my gap-year job between school university. I've never regretted the purchase and I still use the same horn. I talked through the choice of instrument with my teacher Douglas Moore. Once we established that my budget ran to an Alex, he said that he would pick one out for me next time a batch came in to Paxman's. I believe that Alexander did have some quality control issues at that time. When a batch came in to Paxman, Douglas Moore used to test each horn for them and tell them which ones should be returned as being substandard. When I went in to try out the one he had put to one side for me, it played so beautifully that I didn't even bother to try any others - I trusted Douglas Moore's judgement. I just paid and walked out with it, trading in the Paxman Studenti that I had used up until then. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Alex 103 - history?
Once again, more evidence that horns are picked over before they filter down to the 'unconnected' buyer, yet dealers all claim this isn't true, usually with a straight face. My story was of a purchase over 25 years ago. I've not bought a horn since and I have no means of knowing whether things have changed in the intervening time, so I would be very hesitant to draw any conclusions from the occasion beyond it being an example of what used to happen then. All I can say in addition is that the horn I bought was excellent and has served me faithfully in the years since. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Alex 103 - history?
I believe that Alexander did have some quality control issues at that time. When a batch came in to Paxman, Douglas Moore used to test each horn for them and tell them which ones should be returned as being substandard. By the way, I neglected to mention that as far as my memory serves me, it was a relatively small proportion that were recommended for return, maybe 10-15% or thereabouts. I would hope that Alexanders reworked them and fixed them before sending them out again, rather than simply shipping them out to another less discriminating dealer. But I have no knowledge of what actually happened. regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] re: embouchure question
Nobody here plays Brandenburg 1 or the Quoniam on a double horn. The sound is too heavy. All professional around use a descant for this kind of compositions, not because they have difficulties in the high regions, but because of the desired very light sound. A question occurs to me from the above comment. Where you have a part from the romantic repertoire which is extremely high and taxing but would require a more substantial sound, what kind of horn would you use? The most extreme example of such a part would be the 1st horn part of the Schumann Konzertstuck, but there are other pieces in the orchestral repertoire that would qualify. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] pitch
I've always heard the term relative pitch used for those having quite good ears, but not quite perfect pitch. No, that isn't what I understand by relative pitch. To me, relative pitch is the ability to hear intervals accurately, and so to be able to sing or play accurately and in tune any interval relative to a note that is sounding or has just sounded a moment ago. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Ear training for musical disasters
So, we had Blue Tango and With a Song In My Heart being played simultaneously. It sounded surprisingly good. It took a while for the conductor to get everyone to stop, About a year ago I was on an orchestral course which happened to run over April 1st that year. A few of us had worked out some possible April Fool jokes to play on the conductor depending on what piece was to be played that morning. If it was Sibelius 1, the principal clarinet was going to play the opening solo on the wrong clarinet and see whether anyone noticed. But as it happened, the first piece that morning was the Scherzo from Mahler 5, and I was playing the obligato horn part. For this, we had decided that my opening entry should turn into Oh I do like to be beside the seaside after the initial F#. So I played it out in full Mahlerian style. It fitted surprisingly well, and it took the orchestra and conductor several seconds before they finally realised what was going on and everyone collaped with laughter. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Ear Training
If one can sing, one can play! My head of department in College has been involved in research that shows that the vocal cords of a Brass player whilst playing do EXACTLY the same thing as a singer whilst singing. That's very interesting. Is there anything about that research available on the web? I would like to read more about it. I've always realised that I have a much better chance of cleanly hitting a note if I have a mental picture of the note beforehand, but I've always been a bit vague in my mind as to how that is achieved. As an scientist by training as well as a musician, that has always bothered me. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Snobbery vs. Knowledge
Thank you so much for your posting! It is so true and telling. Not about me, but about you. Every mail application has a Delete button. Please use it, if you find my postings boring. Please can we all get back to talking about the horn? If I want discussions about spelling grammar there are any number of other places for that. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] horn advice
It is considered impolite to abuse spelling. It is impolite to point out other short comings in the abuse of spelling. I wonder if there should be a horn-related version of that. It is inappropriate to clam. It is impolite to point out other people's clams :-) Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Conductors, and Ensemble Personalities
It seems to me that the experiences of different musicians regarding the quality of conductors depends less on the actual quality of the conductor than on the attitude of the individual musician. Yes, at times there can be tensions between a conductor and an orchestra. But it is necessary to remember that if there is a to be a single coherent interpretation of the work, that has to be the conductor's, whoever he or she is. Whether in amateur or professional orchestras, it is the duty of the players to cooperate with the conductor and with each other to help achieve that. It has to be remembered that when in rehearsal and concert an orchestra is a team, not a democracy. Although I'm not a professional musician, as a student and amateur I've played under a lot of different conductors over the years. Only one conductor totally failed to gain any respect - but he was only visiting for a single rehearsal when I was a student. Another conductor, in charge of my local youth orchestra, had a very poor rehearsal technique. He talked a lot, mostly in a voice that could only be heard by the front desks. On one occasion I timed him in a 50-minute session on the slow movement of Brahms 4. He spoke for 30 minutes and the remaining 20 included a complete run-through of the movement. I complained to him after the rehearsal and was nearly thrown out of the orchestra as a result. Fortunately, when he complained about me to his boss he was asked did you talk for as long as he said?. On getting waffle for a reply, apparently the boss said robustly You'd better make sure that he doesn't have cause to complain about it again. A small number of conductors I've played under have been truly inspirational. Most of the rest have been capable and competent to a lesser or greater extent, but in almost every case I have been able to learn something from them. Regards Jonathan West -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 05/05/2006 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Edinburgh Festival Rehearsal Orchestra
I assume you mean the Rehearsal Orchestra www.rehearsal-orchestra.org It is a thoroughly excellent group, and will give you a standard of orchestral playing that is as good as anything you will experience before becoming a regular professional youself. A large proportion of professionals in the UK have been through the RO at one time or another. Simon Rattle was a percussionist there one year, when he was about 14. At the residential course at Edinburgh there are four 90-minute rehearsal sessions each day, then you have the evenings free to go out and see concerts at the Festival or Fringe, or just enjoy yourself at the pub nearby. A symphony will usually get rehearsed for two sessions, a shorter piece for one session, under conditions which closely approximate to what you will be expected to deal with in the profession. There is an open rehearsal or informal concert at the end of the week where a couple of the pieces rehearsed during the week are played through before an audience of friends. Usually, the sections rotate so that everyone gets a chance to play first chair for a couple of pieces during the week. If you are interested in becoming an orchestral professional and want to get experience of having to learn music under near-professional conditions and timescales, I would strongly recommend going. If you are a good amateur (at least UK Grade 8 standard) and want to completely immerse yourself in music for a week, then it also great for that, especially as there are a huge number of concerts going on in Edinburgh during the Festival. The orchestra is mostly a mixture of college students and good amateurs, with a few advanced school-age students and a few young professionals as well. The conductors are professionals and the string principals are all very experienced pros. If you buy Denis Vigay (principal cello) a drink you can get him to regale you with stories of Dennis Brain and Alan Civil and others! Beware, if you are a student and you think you know it all, you are quite likely to find yourself sitting next to an amateur who can play you off your chair! Several of the amateurs there could easily have been professional musicians had their lives taken a different turn. The weekend courses they run mostly in London are also very good - for instance rehearsing Mahler 6 in a weekend and then doing an informal performance. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: FW: [Hornlist] Quick question about cleaning.....
We don't have Wal-mart in Britain! Actually, we do. Wal-mart owns Asda. Regards Jonathan ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Mozart
I've learned this from my teachers: The older and more advanced you get, the harder Mozart is to play. Ain't that the case. I'm performing Mozart 4 with my local community orchestra in June, having thoroughly learned it during school years and college years. I'm finding that it is much harder now than it ever was then, even though I consider myself a much better player than I was as a student. As an aside, when I was a student, I never could get my head round what Strauss 2nd Horn Concerto was all about. I learned the notes did the phrasing I was told by my teacher, but I think I was simply too young to understand the piece. It's only recently, having heard quite a lot of Strauss over the years and having recently played the Sonatina no. 2 for winds Happy Workshop (another late Strauss piece) that I feel I could make a decent stab at Strauss 2. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Not Really a Mozart Fan
Thank you Steve, you spoke the absolute truth. Several times, by now, I read in posts coming from the other side of the pond: I don't care for Mozart, I don't like Beethoven, Tchaikovsky is boring etc. I'm reminded of the Bluffers Guide to Music which states There are only four truly great composers. Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and your own particular favourite. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] misinterpretation
Last time I checked, I am a member as well and I have gotten plenty of RUDE responses. The best way of dealing with rudeness is to ignore it, intensively and with great dedication. Responding, especially if you allow rudeness to creep into your response, merely validates the position of the person who has criticised you. Regards Jonathan West -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/301 - Release Date: 04/04/2006 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] playing low/high
I've gotten a new teacher this year and she is having me change my embouchure complete, so I have been experimenting and trying to figure out many different things in my practicing. I'd also like to believe after 6 years of college, I'm not that stupid. Mara, I wonder whether we have a common understanding of the meaning of the word college. I think of college as being where you go at age 18 or so for advanced study after finishing school. If after 6 years of college you are now making a complete change to your embouchure, then there is something very, very wrong. I'm not in a position to say what that something is, but here are a few possibilities. If your embouchure is in such a state that it really needs a complete change, then either your previous teachers were notably incompetant or you weren't taking much notice of them. Either way, it may be that much of those 6 years have been wasted. If your embouchure is not requiring such a major change, then hard questions need to be asked of your present teacher as to why she is wanting you to change now. If in fact you meant that you have learned at achool for 6 years and are now starting at college, if you now have an excellent teacher then an embouchure change might be necessary, and the sooner it is done the better. Going back to this playing high and playing low business, it is all a matter of control. If you have enough control over your embouchure that you can relax it sufficiently to play low notes. You can also manage high notes without using excessive pressure, but instead using lots of air support. Hans was describing in more detail how that control is achieved, involving far more than just how your lips are placed on the mouthpiece. It is worth understanding the physiology of how it all works, because if you find yourself having an off-day with regard to extreme ranges, it gives you more knowledge with which to approach the problem of fixing it. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Words to Mozart 4th
I know there are some humorous words to the Rondo (last) Movement from Mozart's 4th Horn Concerto - because I have a CD of the song. What I am missing though, are the words and the printed music of this version. Does anyone know where I can get my hands on the music/words to this song? I just don't have the time/energy to transcribe it right now. Thanks! Melvin Baldwin The song was called Ill Wind by Flanders Swann. The lyrics are available in many places on the internet. Try here for instance http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mshanemcl/mozart4.htm Any good music store ought to be able to order the music for you. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] (Very Late) Survey Results
Special for young players as you, I have sent up my playing instructions of Mozarts K.447 495 concertos to my site: www.pizka.de click to Sitemapp (no misspelling, it was intentional, as my server jumped to my earlier Sitemap - right spelling - for some reason, had also changed the link on my index page without result) Scroll down to instructions and click to Mozart495 or Mozart447 I've taken a look a these pages, and from what I have seen they are VERY GOOD. They are pretty similar stylistically to how I was taught the concertos by Douglas Moore in my youth. The one major point of difference is that as far as I remember Douglas Moore was not in the least bit interested in whether I was using the Bb or F side of the horn, so long as the tuning and tone was good and the phrasing and musicianship was what he wanted to hear. He would occasionally suggest an alternative fingering, but he was mainly content to leave well alone if it sounded right. By the way Hans, some of the graphics aren't showing. The whole of the last movement of K495 is not displaying, and the same applies to the 2nd 3rd movements of K447. Regards Jonathan West -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23/240 - Release Date: 25/01/2006 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] (senza oggetto)
Is it better to play with lips dry or wet? Whichever works for you! You may get different people holding strong views on this, but all it will come down them having found which approach works best for them and perhaps for the majority of their students. Personally I prefer play with lips slightly wet. That's how I was taught and that is what feels more comfortable. But I can play dry if necessary, for instance if I find that my concentration has lapsed and I need to whip the horn to my lips and play an entry immediately. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Copying of orchestra parts
Wow, how good must be your orchestra as they do a concert with two or three rehearsals ONLY, while world class orchestras have five to six rehearsals (public dress rehearsal included) for a concert program . Not in Britain they don't! British orchestras are perpetually broke and cannot afford that kind of lavish expenditure on rehearsal. Regards Jonathan West -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 02/12/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] vol.36, issue 7. Fingerings and markings
At 1:26 PM -0800 12/6/05, carol everson wrote: If you give out photocopies you can stamp or mark them :For Practice and Rehearsal use ONLY and be perfectly safe and legal within that context.. God help anyone who uses photocopies for rehearsals and practicing and the original parts for performances. That's easy. If you have markings in the photocpy that you feel you need for the concert, you simply put both the original *and* the photocopy on the stand, but the the photocopy in front. The audience conductor think you are playing the original, but you can actually see the photocopy. Regards Jonathan West -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 02/12/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Fingerings, accidentals making music
I think that nobody could reasonably object to an occasional marking *in pencil*. If I have a part which has been marked with things like warnings to watch out for a tempo change, a repeated accidental etc, then that is fine. An occasional marking of an alternate fingering is also no problem - I can use it or erase it as I choose. Warnings of errors in the printed part are great and I wouldn't want them erased by the previous user. String players frequently have parts marked with bowings. It would be crazy to have to erase all bowings from a part only for them to have to be re-inserted by the next orchestra which plays the piece. So there is precedent for useful markings to be left in the part. But there are various kinds of markings which step over this line - Markings in ink which cannot be erased - Fingerings and/or rewritten notes for every note of a transposed part. If you must rewrite a transposed part, buy yourself some MS paper and write it out separately. Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
