Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording (NHR)
Oh boy, is this a trip down memory lane. I was introduced to the Tom Lehrer by my local record shop owner (the ol' drug dealer...). It was the 10 LP. As I remember, the cover was mostly red, with a scratchy pen and ink drawing of someone I took to be Tom Lehrer, adorned with devil's horns and a tail, at a rather surrealistic piano. Unfortunately, my copy disappeared a long time ago, so could someone verify or correct this memory? However, the thing that initially sold me was that the record shop kept these records under the counter, rather than on the shelves with the regular LPs. Remember, this was the early 50s and naughty records (at least in the part of world I grew up in) were under-the-counter commodities. For a teenager like me, that was the highest form of approval. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Recording
Hey, I'm impressed! In my youth (just a few years younger than you, Ed), Lehrer was the MAN! I hold your hand in mine dear, though you are far away Ah, the beauty of it all. Richard in Seattle Glick, Ed wrote: Incidentally, although I'm sure you're younger than I am (83 - me, not you), but you may be of the generation that heard (or heard of) the recording by Tom Lehrer. (Be prepared, that's the Boy Scout marching song, Lobachevsky, etc.). If you know of this recording, you may (or may not) be impressed that I was the engineer on the original recording. (Of course, if you've never heard of it, you probably won't be.) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Yamaha 667V in Nickel Silver?
I play a 667 VSL. V stands for Yamaha's patented dual plane valve, S for screwbell, and L for lacquer. My horn is yellow brass with nickle-silver trim. However, I have seen this model illlustrated as if it were all nickle-silver and described as having a nickle-silver bell. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] (Czech) recordings
Simon: It was I who sent that post. This happens when something called MIME format intervenes in some email portals. It came through fine on mine. However, this is all alien territory to me, so hopefully one of the computer gurus on the list can explain this particular cybernetic dissonance. The hornist's name (minus diacritical marks) is Vladimira Klanska and her teacher was Vladimir Kubat at the Prague Conservatory. Richard in Seattle Simon Varnam wrote: A previous post got so mangled in the digester that I didn't know who the artist was: a fabulous Czech woman hornist, Vladim=EDra Kl=E1ns=k=E1,=20 ... She studied with Vladimir Kub=E1t at=20the Prague Conservatory ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] (Czech) recordings
There's also a recording of the Jan Vaclav Stich (Punto) horn concerti (Nos.5,6,7,and 10) by a fabulous Czech woman hornist, Vladimíra Klánská, with the Prague Chamber Orchestra. She studied with Vladimir Kubát at the Prague Conservatory and won a competition sponsored by ARD (Bavarian Radio) in 1973. She attended the IHS symposia at Munich and also Kansas City. According to a recent bio posted by the Czech Nonet (of which she is a member), she is currently solo horn of the Prague Symphony Orchestra (not to be confused with the Philharmonic). The record I have was issued in 1988 as an LP by Supraphon (11 0106-031G). I imagine it was issued as a CD, since it was recorded late enough and the LP cover advertises it as a digital recording, but I've never seen the CD. Richard in Seattle Ralph Hall wrote: Hi Dave, At the age of only 61, Zdenek Tylsar died on August 18th 2006. I had the sad privilege of writing his obituary for 'The Horn Player', the organ of the British Horn Society. Up until his death, he was the Solo Horn of the Czech Philharmonic since 1968. It is safe to say that most of the 'Horny' recordings from the orchestral repertoire feature Tylsar on 1st Horn, including a complete Mahler cycle with Vaclav Neumann. No 3 is particularly good but, disappointingly, no 5 not so as the slow tempo in the Scherzo over emphasises the characteristic Czech staccato. One of my favourite orchestral recordings is of the two Brahms serenades with the CPO and Jiri Belohlavek (Supraphon 11 1992 - 2 o31). This is perfect playing from the whole orchestra without losing any of the characterisation for which they are famous. 2 solo/duet CDs were immediately issued by Supraphon in memoriam. Both Strauss concertos, the Franz Strauss Concerto and Mozart 2 on Supraphon su - 3892 - 2 and all the double horn recordings with his older brother, Bedrich on Su 3902 - 2. This includes the Haydn Double which has not been available for some time, featuring some quite exquisite work in the slow movement. On Naxos 8 - 550393 there is Telemann, Vivaldi and the Ludwig Mozart Sinfonia da Caccia. On Point Classics 2672392 Tylsar plays Haydn 1 in D and, again with Bedrich, a superb account of the Haydn Octet. I became acquainted with the Czech Horn tradition as a youngster in the 50's when an agent for Supraphon came into my father's music shop with one of their early LP efforts as a freebie - Rossler - Rossetti's double concerto no 5, played by the Tylsar brothers' predecessors, Miroslav Stefak and Vladimir Kubat. Absolutely amazing playing and I am just transferring it from LP to CD. Not for sale - sorry! Ralph R. Hall (brasshausmusic.com) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Albin Frehse (1878-1973)
I'm probably among the thousands of horn players who have worked through the Kopprasch and the Eduard Mueller etudes edited by Albin Frehse. I only recently learned that Frehse himself composed four horn concertos, two of which (according to the German Wikipedia) were published. Has anyone ever seen this music, played one of them, or heard them? Frehse was principal horn of the Gewandhaus Orchestra for some years (Erich Penzel was one of his students), so presumably the concertos would be demanding. He also wrote duos, trios, and quartets for horn. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Professional Cleaning?
Tim: As has been pointed out, cleaning out the crud in the valves and tubing is far more important than a shiny exterior. If the lacquer has been stripped from your horn, nickel silver can be polished with brass cleaner. However, it's not to be overdone, since polishing does take metal off. Bells are particularly vulnerable, because you will be polishing both exterior and interior surfaces, thus taking off even more metal every time. In my experience, nickel silver doesn't oxidize as quickly as brass, so you can go a long time between polishing, if you must polish. Many players prefer unlacquered horns over lacquered ones. Schilke once wrote a paper in which he pointed out that lacquer (as opposed to bare metal or silver-plate) tends to deaden tone, being a thick and inert substance. How valid that hypothesis is, I don't know, but my preference has always been for unlacquered horns. Richard in Seattle Tim Kecherson wrote: I'd like to thank everyone who helped me out with this problem. I have one more question about this. My personal horn (the first question was about my fiancee's horn) is in very bad shape, and is no longer lacquered at all. If I were to get my horn fixed up and cleaned, would it be shiny again? It is a nickel-silver Conn 8D and I'm fairly certain it has not been properly cleaned or polished for about 15 years. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: aging hornists
I prefer the term vintage hornists. After all, we come in a number of varieties, vary in years, and---like wine--some get better with age, some don't. How's this for a definition: my tone is like a rich Cabernet, but unfortunately I'm corked. About movie residuals and unsung heroes. I had the good fortune many years ago to play for a popular motion picture that shall remain nameless. I was nameless, too. However, the film still apparently is being shown somewhere on earth, because every July a check trickles in with my .1% portion . Enough for a good bottle of wine, anyway. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase Made in W. Germany was used in the tears immediately following World War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the Americans, French, and British---from East Germany---the Russian dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. Richard in Seattle Bill Tyler wrote: from: Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre yorkmaster...@yahoo.com http://www.hornplayer.net/forsale/f8873.html I wonder about the history behind this Alexander model. The player referred to cannot be verified on the web. from: Sandra Clark sclar...@bex.net I'm betting the seller is simply butchering Milan Yancich's name... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
Whoops! Tears instead of years. Must have been a Freudian slip, apropos but unintended (I think). Richard in Seattle Richard V. West wrote: The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase Made in W. Germany was used in the tears immediately following World War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the Americans, French, and British---from East Germany---the Russian dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
I stand corrected, but for the life of me don't recall the Made in W. Germany on any articles as late as 1989, the date of the fall of the Wall. After the Bundesrepublik was recognized in the West, and the German Democratic Republic was a fait accompli in the East, West Germany as an official distinction seems to me to have gradually disappeared and only used by TV anchors and general public for ease of identification. As for Russia vs. USSR, you're politically correct there. I made many trips to the (former) USSR in my life and was always careful then about making the distinction between the political reality (USSR) and the culture---at least in the European part (Russian/Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.). I've gotten careless since the dissolution of the USSR, since it's somewhat moot. Richard in Seattle Paul Rincon wrote: Sorry Richard, but the label Made in W. Germany was around until after the fall of the Berlin wall. I have CDs with Made in West Germany printed on the back, and I don't think those were around in the 1960's. Also, it was the Soviet Union, not Russia, that exerted dominance over East Germany during that time period. Paul ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Vince De Rosa Event in the Northwest
Hornisti: In the event this hasn't been posted yet, I send this along for your attention: Apologies for the double posting. For those of us old crocks from the LA area (like me) who hung around the fringes of the LA Horn Club in the 1950s, this is a really nostalgic event. Richard in Seattle *“Tales from LA, a visit with Vincent DeRosa”* This is very special in so many ways, I hope you can come. There aren’t many musicians left from this era of horn sound. Please come!!! And spread the word. Please let your students know. Saturday, May 30^th 1 pm Eugene, Oregon Brass Society Hall Corner of Franklin Blvd Nugget Way RSVP:p...@capehorncoffee.com mailto:p...@capehorncoffee.com Vince is now 88, but who’s counting. A chance to meet a legend you have heard all your life. Those glorious horn calls in cinema soundtrack, popular recording background and much more.Admission is limited: Donation is optional – a rose, a can of spaghetti sauce and a large bag of spaghetti [for the food bank, why not!1] It is my treat and privilege to support this event. I do hope you can attend */Paul Leighton /**/CapeHorn/Tristao/ email: p...@capehorncoffee.com mailto:p...@capehorncoffee.com Cape Horn Coffees, Inc. 1863 Pioneer Parkway E. #301 Springfield, OR 9747 Ph (541) 726 5282 (fax 5281) **Mobile (541) 914 5808* ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Rare horn piece to be performed
Steve: For an antique car buff, this has resonance beyond music. In its infancy, General Motors (now in its dotage and going rapidly) absorbed a line of cars called Oakland that eventually evolved into the Pontiac. There are, in fact, even a couple of Pontiac-Oakland car clubs around. It would be interesting to know what kind of horns the Oakland cars had (this is to keep it germane to the list). Klaxons in Bb? More likely, Kaxons in B /*and*/ Bb! Richard in Seattle Steve Burian wrote: One of the community groups I play with is a long-ago merger of the Pontiac (MI) Symphony with the orchestra of nearby Oakland University (We are in Oakland County). They tried to change the name a couple years ago, but after one season were forced to change it back to the Pontiac Oakland Symphony. Steve ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] NBC horn player under Toscanini 1948
Hans: I don't know the video, but I would hazard a guess that it icluded at least one of the Berv brothers. Arthur Berv, Harry Berv, and Jack Berv are all listed as having played with the NBC symphony sometime during period 1937-1954. Richard in Seattle hans.pi...@t-online.de wrote: Hello friends, anybody out there who could identify or name the two horn players on the March 1948 NBC Video of Wagner´s Tannhaeuser ouverture conducted by Toscanini, please ? The two players are shown for over a minute at least again later. Han Pizka ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Recording story
Joe Scarpelli reported: When they were recording, if Mason [Jones] heard something he didn't like in the Horn section, he would kick over his stand which would of course force them to start over. It wasn't clear if this was a onetime occurrence or multiple. and Kendell Betts related other ways the Philadelphia Orchestra members would stop a recording. But I heard from a fellow I met at an audition about a recording session in St. Louis, where he was playing extra. Carl Schiebler messed up a passage and didn't want iot to go on the recording. In order to get the orchestra to stop, he yelled f...@#k at the top of his lungs. They stopped. Richard Hirsh ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] elkhart 8D
Kit Wolf wrote: Look on Ebay and get a really beat up horn for $100 - or less. The more beat-up, the more you'll learn. And it won't matter so much if you make a serious mistake. -- In my experience, none of these assertions is valid. First off, smashed up old 8D's go for ridiculously high prices. For less than $100 you can get any number of single F horns except Yamaha's. Many can be rewarding learning projects. When you get done, you may be able to sell it for a bit more than you paid for it. Any double horn you pick up for less than $100 will be a nightmare to repair and probably won't be playable when you get done. Horns that are complete disasters take a lot of experience to untangle. You learn more by starting with horns that need relatively minor repairs and work you way up to progressively more complex situations. Note that only about 1/2 - 2/3 of the junkers I pick up can be restored to where I'm willing to list them. The rest await the torch where they are disassembled for parts or recycling. (NO DISASSEMBLE! NO DISASSEMBLE! - Johnny 5) I have a few horns listed on hornplayer.net, and my write-ups give some idea (simplified) of what I had to do to get them to market. Look for my two King and one Yamaha doubles. I also have a couple of very good playing single F horns there, that have been languishing for over a year. Regards, Richard Hirsh ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: horn equipment question
stephenqu...@aol.com wrote: Could someone with actual experience please compare the merits (or whatever) of a compensating double vs. a 5-valve single Bb? -- I play primarily two double horns by Meister Walter Moennig made in the late 1960's, when his shop was part of the consolidated BS factory in Markneukirchen, DDR. One is a Horner model full double and the other a variant of the Wendler model compensating horn. They are serial numbers 251 and 252 and the valves are numbered sequentially from one horn to the other, so I know they were made in the same run. The leadpipes are different. The full double horn has a pipe with a large receiver (venturi is about 7.7 mm); the compensating horn's pipe is smaller, venturi is about 7.5 mm. The horns play more alike than differently, but there are definite differences. The full double is very free blowing and responsive with a good weighty sound and lots of ring. The compensating horn has a lighter sound and is even freer. It is the fastest, most responsive horn I have ever played. Both horns tuning is very good, but they differ from one another in fairly subtle ways. There is NO stuffiness about the F side on the compensating horn, contrary to most compensating horns I have played. I have tried a number of single Bb horns, though none with an F extension. One Holton that I overhauled was much lighter in sound color and about as fast, but couldn't be called on to really open up. I have overhauled several Yamaha's which play very well and offer a beefier sound. Bruce Tubbs converted one to a five valve, but I never got a chance to play it after the conversion. But I find that any advantage in weight, responsiveness and clarity that a single Bb offers I can match with my compensating horn (though the sound is on the full side). Played first on Tchaikovsky 5 using it recently and it was a great asset. So the moral is IF (big if) you can find a great compensating horn, it can offer all the advantages of a single Bb with the added convenience of all the double horn fingerings. There are still a few of Walter Moennig's compensating horns floating around, and his son Manfred operates a custom shop in Markneukirchen. I have seen pictures of some made by Manfred (with stop valve) but have never tried one. Some people like the Alexander 102. Kruspe still offers the Wendler model and a model with stop valve. I have played a couple of Kruspe Wendler models from the BS era, and both were great horns (two different bell sizes). VMI sells various versions of compensating horns under a variety of brand names. I don't know of any American maker who has made compensating doubles. The @#**!! Italian models sold under many brand names including Anborg, DEG, York Artist, Carl Fischer etc. are definitely NOT worth exploring. My 2 cents. Ricahrd Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Bb slides on top
There have been some production horns with the Bb slides on top of the F. The most successful was the Holton 76 and later H-376, which copied the design of the Sansone full double horn. There are still a number of them floating around. To me they play about the same as the model 77, the first version of the Farkas model. Not surprising, since the bell and taper tubes appear to be the same design or very close. They have some architectural problems, but mostly related to the way the tubing is laid out around the thumb valve. I haven't encountered any particular problem with the 3rd valve F slide bumping the bell. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Dent bags
I have tried a number of different gig bags, and my preference is the Pro-tec gig bag, which retails for around $135-140. It is well padded and has a substantial stiffener for the bell flare. Despite the feet on the bottom, they do tend to just roll over when you set them down. I've been using them with success and no injuries for about 4 years. While they don't have backpack straps, they do have an over-shoulder strap. For maximum safety, I recommend NOT using the strap but holding the case in front of you where you can see the obstructions to it clearly. However I don't always follow my own advice. I picked up a couple of the Gator lightweight semi-hard cases for instruments I sell, and find them to be of good construction. However the interior is oversized, so you'll need to make some additional padding to keep the horn from moving around. This type of construction is very popular in string instrument cases. The shell is made up of molded styrofoam, covered with heavy nylon and lined with velour, velvet, taffeta or whatever. There is little or no case hardware - instead the nylon case just zips up and handles are sewn onto the case. While it reduces the weight and does provide very good impact absorption (bicycle helmets are mostly styrofoam forms with decorative covers), the rigid form is still a bit awkward when worn as a backpack. I'd estimate it is marginally more safe than the Pro-tec gig bag. I would guess the Pro-tec lightweight case is of similar construction, but I have never looked at one. Richard Hirsh ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Die Rosenfee
I would read Die Rosenfee as the Rose Fairy, not the Pink Fairy. Witness the title of a traditional German marionette production Der Zwergenkönig Laurin und die Rosenfee (The Dwarf King and the Rose Fairy). My guess is that Eric is correct and Rosenfee is a direct German translation from the French (or vice versa). Richard in Seattle Eric James wrote: This may have come from Halevy's opera La Fee aux Roses. I suspect this has nothing to do with Schumann at all. Eric James --- On Sat, 1/31/09, dalle...@bellsouth.net dalle...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: dalle...@bellsouth.net dalle...@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Die Rosenfee To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 8:17 PM The Excerpt Der Rosenfee (Pink Fairy) first appeared in Gumbert Orchestral Excerpts - Volume 1. Pottag obviously copied into his own volumes of orchestral excerpts. Note the orientation, measure layout and fonts are identical. Now for the hard part. I cannot associate it to any of Schumann's works without undertaking a melody to melody search of all of Schumann's piano, operatic and vocal works. There is no match by title to his songs or piano pieces. My hunch is that it is an operatic aria, transcribed for horn, something that Gumbert did frequently. Also I suppose I should be using his correct name of Gumpert, not Gumbert as published, according to The Horn Call. Regards. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/eric_d_james%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 01/31/09 20:03:00 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Notations on sheet music
At the Yahoo horn group, take a look at Files faeries_aire.jpg ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recording technique --somewhat HR
Thanks to all on both lists who responded to my plaintive request for help with your suggestions and caveats. It certainly opened up a number of options and cost/benefit ratios! For starters, I will proceed with the stuff I have on hand on a trial basis to see what I get. Based on the results, I may gradually upgrade along the lines recommended by many of you. Appreciatively, Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Recording technique --somewhat HR
Apologies for this double posting. I recently unearthed a cache of old vinyl and acetate LPs of horn records and performances, some in which I participated. I would like to transfer them to my computer, ultimately putting some of the selections on CDs for my personal use. I vaguely remember that on one of the lists someone described a method of hooking up the phono turntable to the computer through the amplifier (tape out? phono out?) via a line to the microphone input of the computer. I now have a reconditioned turntable, a good stereo amplifier, a line with two RCA plugs at one end and a small stereo computer plug at the other, and have downloaded Audacity onto my computer. If someone could point me in the right direction in hooking all this up or correct me if I'm totally off track (a not uncommon occurrence), I'd be grateful. From the bottom of the learning curve, I am Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] bass clef
The composers who lived and worked between the old and the future may have had a dilemma during the transition to new notation. I'm thinking of Johannes Brahms (or perhaps his copyist or publisher). For example, the second horn part (in D) of the Piano Concerto No. 1. The first bar is notated as a low C in treble clef, but six bars later the same low C turns up notated in old notation bass clef. Was Brahms or the engraver trying to signal the horn player that the bass clef notes were in old notation and equivalent to the initial note notated in treble clef? It's even more apparent at rehearsal letter E in the first movement where there are nine+ bars of low C. The first bar appears in treble clef, followed by eight bars notated in bass clef. I don't have the score so I have no idea whether the part is notated differently there. For me, it's the equivalent of transposition, a mind set. I just think in old notation or new notation just as I would think in D horn or Bb horn when playing. When in doubt appeal to the conductor (occasionally helpful) or use common sense combined with acoustic probability( I would try this first). Richard in Seattle John Baumgart wrote: The old composers would have had to mark it current notation and future notation. John Baumgart ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] (no subject)
Would these be the famed Texas Longhorns, perhaps? Richard in Seattle Bill Gross wrote: I have just gotten a copy of Texas Horns. The ensemble sounds great, I think the selection of music was un-inspired. In doing a comparison if they play different stuff it's hard to say. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Vienna Phil
Jay Kosta wrote: My wife (an extremely good 'listener' of music), thought the VPO played better in this year's New Year's Day concert than they had in the previous 5 or 6. She attributed it to the players seeming to really enjoy being there, and that they were enjoying the music. Also she mentioned that the sound was more clear, and each section and soloist could be heard more distinctly. In past years, she said it sounded like the players had 'telephoned in' their parts I think there are several reasons for the success of this year's broadcast. An important one is that the quality of the sound recording has improved significantly. I saw it on an older analog TV with decent but unexceptional sound, but the engineering was such that I could hear textures, balances, and even the room acoustic quite well. Another important factor was Daniel Barenboim. I performed under him only one concert series, when he was a young guest conductor of the Chicago Symphony and I was singing in the chorus. He did not connect well with the chorus, but the orchestra members really liked him. Notwithstanding some very pompous public statements he made when announcing his resignation from Chicago, I believe the orchestra continued to hold him in high regard throughout his tenure as music director. He is such a fine performer in his own right that he commands great respect. A lot of his conducting on the broadcast was clearly just for show to the audience - set the VPO on course with a chimpanzee on the podium and they'd still sound great. Willi Boskovsky used to conduct pops concerts from the concertmaster's desk. Barenboim works companionably with groups he respects. (But I've heard he threw temper tantrums when conducting the Chicago Civic Orchestra, the fine training orchestra of the CSO. And his poor success with the chorus was because he made it clear that he considered us sub-humans.) I think the way they staged the Haydn Abschied symphony indicated a comfortable and friendly collaboration. By contrast, I remember some years back that Loren Maazel had the temerity to play violin solos when he conducted the New Years concert, and there were camera shots of some section violinists looking meaningfully at each other all the while. That did not look like a companionable relationship. My 2 cents. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Wunderluch
Based on information from several sources, Richard Wunderlich came from Siebenbrunn in Germany (possibly from a family of instrument dealers) and set up a business in Chicago starting around 1891. Eventually he began importing Schmidt model double horns as parts and having them assembled for sale in Chicago, because it was cheaper to do that than pay import duties on finished instruments - how times change! Among other craftsmen, he hired a young maker trained in Markneukirchen, named Carl Geyer. Wunderlich retired in 1916, and Geyer set up on his own. If your horn is a Richard Wunderlich, it will be a Schmidt model (piston change valve). Dan Gingrich of the Chicago Symphony has a Geyer with a Wunderlich bell, which he has owned since he was in high school. How it was put together may be known only to the guy who sold it to him, and maybe not even him. In addition to the information provided by Hans Pizka, there is also a Meister A. Wunderlich from Markneukirchen, whose only example I see advertised on eBay by a Bulgarian dealer. It is nearly identical to my first horn, by Meister Horst Voight. Both are marked Migma, which stands for music instrument association of Markneukirchen. They are 5 valve compensating doubles with an unusually large wrap and older style mechanical valve linkages. Richard Hirsh ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] IHS Website
Snow? Loren Mayhew wrote: When opening the IHS website this morning, hornsociety.org, all that shows is a blank white page. Loren Mayhew mailto:lo...@mayhews.us lo...@mayhews.us 001 (520) 289-0700 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] thumb lever action
Daniel, When I was in my mid-30's, I tried reversing the thumb valve action on my Moennig horns - they are engineered for it, so it was simple to do. My idea was to make the double horn and descant horn fingerings consistent (and single Bb would fall out as well). I found that 20 years of habit was a great obstacle to overcome. I tried for about two years, but I could never get the fingerings to come automatically and finally gave up. When I returned all horns to their original settings, there was hardly any residual habit to get rid of. On the other hand, Dale Clevenger could pick up horns set up either way and immediately play with ease and facility - his horns stand in Bb. When you get the linkage reversed, let us know how you do. Regards, Richard Hirsh ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Auf dem Strom
I've played it in E, Eb, and D, depending on the singer's range. It works well in all those keys. Most lieder can be transposed to fit the singer's range...probably the composers expected that. The biggest transposing challenge is for the pianist. Richard in Seattle Daniel B. Hrdy wrote: I recently played (for fun) the wonderful Auf dem Strom. The pianist spontaneously said,Why don't we play it in Eb instead of E? The singer was happier, I was happier, and the pianist had no problems. I don't know what Schubert would have thought, but if your pianist can handle it, I recommend it highly. Dan ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1829 - Release Date: 12/4/2008 2:59 PM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Kruspe Horns
I have the feeling that I may have replied to Ed Glick's query on the wrong list. Or perhaps he asked both lists. For what it's worth, here's my contribution: I believe that the New Symphony Model Kruspe (definitely no umlaut) was specifically developed in the 1920s to create a full double horn with a separate Bb tuning slide and a medium bell throat, as opposed to the wider throat of the Horner model. It was listed in Kruspe catalogues as the Walter Kruspe model. This model was issued the German design registration number (DRGM) 1027194, which was generally engraved on horns sold in Germany in lieu of the Made in Germany engraved on the horns intended for export. My guess is the the name New Symphony Model was given to the export horns. Another guess is that this horn was developed to be more competitive with the Alexander horns of this period. I've seen these horns in both brass and nickel silver (I play a nickel silver version myself). Interestingly (at least to me), Kruspe produced a Fritz Kruspe model, too, but I have never knowingly seen one. The layout appears closer to that of the classical Alexander double, but it may not have had a separate Bb tuning slide. Hope this helps. Richard in Seattle Glick, Ed wrote: I bought my Kruspe ( there's no umlaut) in 1940. Stamped (or engraved) on the bell is Ed. Kruspe Erfurt New Symphony Model Made in Germany There's no serial number. When I bought it, I was told the horn was about 20 years old, so it was probably manufactured about 1920. It is a full double with a separate B-flat tuning slide. Would this horn have been made before the Horner model or was it an offshoot of the Horner? Does anyone know more about this instrument? Ed Glick ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: The whinnes sall prick thee to the bare bane.
Peter Hirsh wrote: Recently, the process of trying to dub a recording of the Britten Serenade caused me to listen to several of the movements repeatedly and I was struck that I have never fully registered what the words in the tenor's lyrics were nor had I completely understood the meaning of some of the more antique ones. Much can be figured out fairly easily by studying the context, but I was perplexed as to what Whinny-Muir and its whinnes were. A little research on the Lyke-Wake Dirge has led me to conclude that whinnes are a form of gorse or sticker bush as it is better known in the U.S. and I suppose that Whinny-Muir is the moor where the death-bound traveler would encounter them. The dirge recommends wearing ones hosen and shoon, if one has them, otherwise one's bare feet will be pricked to the bare bane. This is part of what one suffers on the way to the Brig (Bridge) o' Dread that has to be crossed on the way to Purgatory. The term lyke itself mean a dead body and seems to have disappeared from usage other than in lych gate that is the church entrance that was used for said bodies awaiting burial. One small further curiosity is that fire and sleet became fire and fleet somewhere along the way. I'm sure that Lawrence Yates could have done a lot better, but I thought I'd share what I dug up (largely, I am obliged to admit, from wackapedia - caveat lector), in case anyone else out there ever wondered likewise. Blow, bugle, blow, set the wild echoes flying, --- Curiously, I studied this poem in high school - I believe in an anthology edited by John Ciardi. I've never wondered about it, since we dissected it once. I still remember the meanings, but not all the etymologies. The richness of the English language is largely attributable to the polyglot nature of its antecedents, Celtic (Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Breton), lowland German (Angels and Saxons and Jutes, oh my!) and Norman French (the Normans were largely of Viking stock). Lyke is a cognate of the modern German, die Leiche, a corpse. But tracking back whinny - gorse - modern German, I come up with Stechginster. So we may guess that whinny is of Celtic origin. And on and on. Richard Hirsh, no relation ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Water Keys
Kathy: Amado water keys work very well from me (2 horns, three keys). Just be sure to put a drop of oil in them about once a week to keep them operating smoothly. Richard in Seattle Kathy Lowe wrote: I am considering have some water keys installed on my horn. One of the places I want to install a water key is a bit tricky to get to and is a natural water trap, so I'm considering something a little smaller and easier to install than the standard lever water key. I don't want my repair person cursing me for the rest of my days. I am familiar with the Amado water key but I have never used one. My DH is also recommending that I think about a Saturn water key. I've looked it up on the net so I know what it looks like and how it works. My big question on the Saturn is how easy is it to trigger. I don't need a lap full of water just by setting my horn down. Does anyone have any opinions either way on either the Saturn or the Amado water key? Kathy Anaheim, CA ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Brahms Trio, Op. 40
I second what David wrote. The Andante is not as easy as it looks. It was written to be almost an elegy to Brahms' departed mother. The tempo is serene, but not funereal, and requires real breath control and dynamic control. The horn part is very exposed and pianissimo in some sections. It's worth working on very seriously. Richard in Seattle David A. Jewell wrote: The trio was published for horn, violin, and piano, with a separately available cello part. Several years later Brahms told his publisher that he felt that the viola served the horn part better and to suppress the cello. Publishers being what they are he ignored the idea about the cello part, and kept publishing all the separate parts, [horn, cello, and viola] so that he could sell more copies. Brahms himself wanted the trio played with natural horn, but of course that was ignored for practical reasons soon after its premiere. It is normally played today with its intended instrumentation - horn, violin and piano. I have never heard it performed any other way. As an aside, the Lowell Greer performance on natural horn is stunning, and the Myron Bloom Marlboro Music recording is very pleasing as well. Paxmaha From: Steve Freides [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:42:42 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Brahms Trio, Op. 40 Can anyone tell me a bit about the Brahms Trio, Opus 40? From what I see online, the instrumentation is definitely piano, violin, and a third instrument which can be horn, viola, or cello. How is this piece usually performed? I ask because, in the online sample pages I saw, the Andante first movement looks like I could play it and someone asked me about it earlier today. Here is a link to where I found it online: http://tinyurl.com/556eol or http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_detail.html?item=980838cart=3436094 134647052cm_re=289.1.4-_-Results+Item-_-Title Thanks very much in advance. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1799 - Release Date: 11/19/2008 8:58 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
Steve Freides wrote: Size is something of an issue in that he's 5 feet tall now (that's about a 1.53 meters) and just 12 years old. --- In our orchestra we had a tubist for a couple of concerts who was a petite young woman barely 5' 2 tall and of slender build. She played a very large instrument and said it made her look like a tuba with arms and legs - indeed she was often invisible when the instrument was in playing position. She played quite well. I regretted that we never got to play Tubby the Tuba with her, because our piccolo player at the time was a very nice lady who stood 6' 1 tall. Anyway, if there is a will, there will be a way. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Konzertst ü ck questions
Bear: Where did you get that information about natural horns and the Konzertstück.? My understanding is that Schumann wrote it specifically to showcase the abilities of the newly developed valve horn...all four of them. Having played it but once, I can vouch for the fact that all four parts are chromatic and not at all natural horn-like. Perhaps one of the expert Konzertstückiologists on this list could clarify the question. Richard in Seattle Bear Woodson wrote: Hello, Everyone. I'm sorry. You guys have probably talked this topic to death, but I've been listening to my recording of the Schumann Konzert- stück recently. (I have the Vox Box of 2 CD's of the complete concerted works of Robert Schumann, with Francis Orval, Françios Tommasini, Robert Desprez and Robert Janssens playing the Konzertstück.) The program notes are very limited and only say that it was written for 2 Natural Horns, so I'm worried that the other 2 must be UN-Natural Horns. (This being the Halloween season, there are too many unnatural things already lurking about!) Does Schumann use F Crooks on the 2 Natural Horns for the Entire Work, or does he have them switch to Crooks in Other Keys during the work? (I've been digging around on the internet and none of the websites that I've seen, answer this question.) Which 2 are the Natural Horns? Are they Numbers 1 3, the 2 Higher Horns, or is one Higher and the other one Lower? I seem to remember that someone on one of these Horn Lists once said that this work ends with the First Horn going to a Written High E (Concert Pitch High A, ABOVE the TREBLE CLEF)! Ouch! (I didn't risk writing that high in any of my Horn Sonatas, nor in my Horn Concerto!) And yet on the recording, they make it sound lovely and easy! Bravi! Is that High Concert A on a Natural or UN-Natural Horn? Schumann had an Annoying Habit of Doubling TOO Often in the Orchestration of his works. I know that Mahler later re-scored the Schumann Cello Concerto, to weed out some of those unnecessary Doublings, and make a few appropriate changes. (Mahler also re-orchestrated the Beethoven Ninth Symphony, but that mostly resulted in adding a Tuba in a few passages that really benefited from it, since Tubae were not invented until after Beethoven had died.) I find some passages of the Schumann Konzertstück orchestration to be irritating, due to SO MUCH Doubling of the Violins, and / or Flute, Oboe or Clarinet, above the Highest Horn. Has anyone ever re-orchestrated and cleaned up this Konzertstück? I thank you in advance. Bear Woodson Composer in Tucson, Arizona, USA Home: 520 - 881 - 2558 Bear Woodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] I exchange E-Mails with people all over the world. When they learn that I live in Arizona, they say, Wouldn't you have to be crazy to live in a desert that's so hot all the time?, I answer Yes, exactly, we ALL are! I then explain that in most climates when the Paranoids are out to GET you, they hide in the bushes and STARE at you all day, while you are at work or home. But in the deserts, we don't HAVE many bushes, because sometimes we only have clumps of Cacti. So when the Paranoids have to do an 8-hour shift of Staring as someone here, it could mean 3 Weeks of pulling Cactus Needles out of their butts with pliers! For this reason the Arizona Paranoids have a VERY Strong Union! It is crucial that all people know this, in case they decide to go crazy and move to Arizona! - Bear Woodson (2002) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.3/1744 - Release Date: 10/24/2008 6:08 PM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] more specific than Re: Contents of Horn digest...
Or read it in alto clef andviola! Richard in Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why bother transposing the piano? Just stick an F crook in it, and voila! Gotta go, CABBAGE ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Simultaneously playing both parts of a horn duet with the help of your piano
Isn't concert pitch=C? Then it's an either-or situation isn't it? You EITHER transpose piano to F, OR transpose horn to C, right? Richard in Seattle Steve Freides wrote: Of course, you must either play the piano part at concert pitch (my choice) or read Horn in C, but not both, please. :) And don't worry if the horn notes are a little sharp - that's life, lip it or leave it. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Schubertiphobia
Howard Sanner wrote: ... One of the Schubert songs--that isn't Heidenroslein--is Der Lindenbaum, which is one of the earlier songs in his (IMHO interminably--I'm not exactly a Schubert fan) long cycle Die Winterreise. (I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, so I might as well pour a little gasoline on the fire and say that I can't stand the quintet in C with two cellos, either!) You are more to be pitied than censured. BTW, der Lindenbaum has achieved the status of a folk song in the German speaking countries. Just about every local singing club does a version of it, most popularly by men's chorus. Perhaps if you did some singing, his works would grow on you. As to the quintet, I can see getting hung up on the adagio, especially if you are in a disquieted state of mind. It does unfold slowly. But I find the whole piece to be some of the finest string writing in the literature. Richard Hirsh, Schubertiphile ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Bb alto or Bb basso?
In a recent posting, Hans Pizka wrote: Horns (or crooks) in Bb-basso (I owned just one from mid 19th cen. - a gigant of a crook 4-times coiled)were NOT known before Don Giovanni... Don Giovanni was premiered in 1787, so where does that leave the Gran Partita for winds, presumably written in 1783 or 1784, and scored for two pairs of horns in Eb and Bb? I've always performed it with groups where the horns played the parts in Bb basso. I've never heard it played with horns in Bb alto. I suppose a case could be made for Bb alto, but my own feeling as a performer (I'm not a musicologist) is that Mozart was exploring darker sonorities in the Gran Partita. For example, he adds a pair of basset horns to deepen the clarinet sound and reinforces the two bassoons with a string bass part (sometimes played by contrabassoon). Why shouldn't he have done that for the horns, adding a pair of horns in Bb basso, a fourth lower than the usual (in his wind music) pair of Eb horns? I recall reading somewhere that the piece was written for Mozart's friend, the clarinetist Anton Stadler, who introduced him to the basset horn and basset clarinet (the original clarinet concerto). Perhaps there were already musicians in Vienna experimenting with larger crooked horns by then. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I am can clarify this? Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Single F horns - Conn 4D
Steve Freides wrote: Anyone playing in a community band or otherwise and using a single F horn? Just a couple of days ago, I took my 1923 Conn 4d out of its case and was reminded just how much I enjoy playing it. It blows _so_ easily and makes quite a nice tone, IMHO. The trouble, of course, is that it gets tricky to hit notes above the staff on a single F but I have trouble with that aspect of my playing, anyway, so it is not yet a big concern to me. My double is a Yamaha 666, which I like but is heavier to hold and a lot more work to play. Perhaps training on the bigger horn and then playing the smaller is the best of all worlds. -- I have offered to supply the section of my orchestra with a more or less matched set of single F horns for classical era and Viennese repertory, but so far have not gotten an enthusiastic response from the other players. I use a lot of F horn for that repertory on my double anyway. I find the extra resistance helps with endurance on sustained high notes, and the higher tessitura adds extra brilliance when playing loud. As part of my demonstration for prospective buyers of single F horns, I have (re-)learned the Tchaikovsky 5th slow movement solo on the F horn. It's not really too scary, since you don't have to attack notes very high, and it sounds great. I mostly need the music in front of me so the double horn fingerings don 't pop out unbidden. The Conn 4D is a really nice single F. The Yamaha 31x series are good, and I mostly sell those for young students. Another really good single F horn is the Reynolds Contempora FE-12. It's like the F side of a Pottag model double, but much lighter. Wonderful sound and very responsive. I have one listed on hornplayer. net. Not to be confused with the Reynolds Emperor, which is the same horn as the Olds Ambassador. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Pictures
The artist was Viktor Hartmann, an architect and friend of Moussorgsky. Images can be found on the web at various spots, including: http://www.emboscados.com/foro/viewtopic.php?TopicID=2413 http://www.russisches-musikarchiv.de/bilder.htm The resolution isn't high and I don't know how projectable they can be. Good luck, Richard in Seattle Timothy F. Thompson, D.M.A. wrote: Does anyone know where I could find projectible images of the paintings and drawings on which Moussourgsky based Pictures From an Exhibition? Our woodwind quintet is performing David Thompson's arrangement and would like to project the images during performance. Thanks in advance for any help. Tim ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Transpostion Assistance
You're looking at a Bb basso horn part (In German notation B=Bb; H=B natural). If you use the interval method (which generally works well since Bb basso parts typically just use harmonic intervals of a natural horn in Bb), transpose a fifth down. Richard in Seattle William Gross wrote: I've been chasing Gustav, now Ike and finally hit a few moments respite. Managed to bring my horn along working on an upcoming performance. One of the works is in B Basso and my memory not as good in this matters as it should be, and logistics on this evolution being what they are, I am absent references. Cutting to the chase, can someone remind me how to do this transposition? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] San Fran horn question
Carl: Try Oakland, across the Bay. Dick Akwright is the man. It's been a few years, but I believe the listing is under A G Music. (If I got this wrong, then someone in the Bay Area will certainly correct me.) Richard in Seattle Carl Ek wrote: Dear Hornlisters. Would anyone have a recommendation in the SF area for cleaning/etc my horn ? It's an early 90's Berg and I'd like to get it overhauled. Since there's a few Bergs in this neck of the woods, I asked at the local Minute Lube, but I didn't get a good vibe there. Regards, Carl Ek ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: NY Times horn feature
Peter: If ancient memory serves, it was Irving Kolodin, then music critic of the Saturday Review of Literature, that raised such a stink about the horns' performance in the Ach, Abscheulicher aria of Fidelio--the famous (infamous?) trio. I recall that it led to a general shakeup of the horn section, but not being in NYC at the time I don't have the details. By the way, were you on Monhegan? That's a magic place that has great personal and professional memories for me. I envy you (even if it was Manticus or Mt. Desert). Richard in Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glad to say, I was on vacation for nearly a month and did not go near a computer or other email-equipped device during that span, so I did not have to experience this discussion in real time. I did, however read the article on the day it was published (believe it or not, you can get the NY Times at the general store on an island 10 miles off the coast of Maine, but have to pay a premium price for it) and anticipated the brouhaha that it would unleash. I won't go into what I thought, thereby re-igniting the thread, other than to say that the direct personal references to Phil Myers and Dave Jolley were pretty bush league, not to mention pretty inaccurate (I was sitting in the front row at the first performance of the 92nd Street Y concert and Dave did have some difficulty with the Adagio and Allegro - and it still was a musically inspiring concert when considered as a whole). What I did want to toss in was that it was Lester Salomon that lost his gig at the Met due to messing up the second horn part in Fidelio. I have heard various versions of this tale, including directly from the late Lester Salomon himself and I am not sure about the lawsuit part from my any of my recollections but Lester did lose his job. Maybe it was someone else that was named in the review or maybe it was an entirely different incident (after all, we are talking about Fidelio, which gets played a lot and generally gives a lot of agita to the horns, here) Any other old timers on the list have a clearer picture on this? I will dig around the NY Times archives to see if I can dig any old skeletons up. Peter Hirsch date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:58:59 -0400 from: Debbie Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: Re: [Hornlist] NY Times horn feature I did not find the article upsetting but the problem is It is not balanced in the talking of the whole of a season. Secondly, without a union a article like this could mean the end of a job for someone. Many years a go there was a scathing review of the MET orchestra playing I believe Fidelio. It talked about the opening solos. It mentioned one of the principals by name just so happens it was not the guy in the pit. There was a lawsuit for defamation and the player named but not playing won. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.13/1641 - Release Date: 8/29/2008 7:07 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: NY Times horn feature
In 1961 Bob Dylan wrote of NY critics, A lot of people don't have much food on their table, but they got a lot of forks and knives and they gotta cut somethin'. Nearly 50 years have passed. Seems not much has changed. Richard Smith http://www.rgsmithmusic.com http://horn.rgsmithmusic.com Steve Burian wrote: Hello all, I saw this article this morning and thought about replying but have not yet taken the effort. I think it may be futile. I also read his original review of the NY Phil when the horns had so much trouble on the Haydn under their newly appointed director: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/07/arts/music/07nyph.html I disagree with his apparent assertion that condensation is related to clams. (Maybe a few, but most are caused by other things than water) Hand-horn both raises and lowers pitch (not a point worth arguing over) but it also makes accuracy harder since it messes with resistance/airspeed. I don't think of it as a resource towards greater accuracy. I appreciate his efforts to explain the horn, but he obviously was worried more about his dorky band uniform than trying to master an instrument, and his defensiveness regarding all the e-mails he received already shows that he is not interested in learning anything new. His apparent Boston envy made me wonder if James Sommerville might someday become the Horn Bambino lured away to the mighty NY Phil in pinstriped tuxedoes leading to a 100-year dearth of horn playing in Boston. I hope not. Having taken my share of lessons and auditions, and having paid up to $100 to see a symphony concert, I do agree that if I pay for a ticket to see a big orchestra I can expect really well prepared playing. Otherwise, the writers genuine lack of understanding makes his lack of sympathy harder to sympathize with. BTW, I have a CD of Phil Meyers playing mostly obscure stuff. I find it to be some of the most compellingly musical playing in my collection. That's all I can really offer on that issue. Steve Burian _ Get more from your digital life. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/music%40rgsmithmusic.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: NY Times horn feature
From Max Reger to a critic: I'm sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment, it will be behind me. RGS Bill Tyler wrote: --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In 1961 Bob Dylan wrote of NY critics, A lot of people don't have much food on their table, but they got a lot of forks and knives and they gotta cut somethin'. Nearly 50 years have passed. Seems not much has changed. Add this quote by Sibelius ... “Pay no attention to what the critics say; there has never been set up a statue in honor of a critic.” ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/music%40rgsmithmusic.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Texas Horns
Whoa! What about the LA Horn Club records (now CDs) from the late 50s and early 60s? Aren't Southern California hornplayers (North) American? (Rhetorical question...I hope). Richard in Seattle Michael Reedy wrote: Is anyone else excited that there will finally be a CD of American Horn players?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Franz Welser-Möst Comments
Hans [Pizka] wrote: Question to the specialists: what was the bore of the very, very old Conns ? Anybody knows ? In millimeters, please. To compare: Viennese bore (inside diameter of the cylindrical tube) is 10,8 mms. --- Conn horns are nominally 11.9 mm (.468) bore size. I have not worked on 8D's much, but 6D and 4D's (oldest from the mid 1940's) are usually very close to that in the straight tubing. They typically compress down to 11.5 mm or so in curved branches, based on my experience trying to take dents out of them. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Peter and the Wolf
Are you sure, I thought the correct answer is 42. --- The answer is 42, but what is the question? (Destroying the suspense, 3 volumes later: what do you get when you multiply 6 times 9? - it's all wrong!) source: The increasingly inaccurately named Hitchhiker's Trilogy, 5 volumes plus a bonus story. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Knopf Horn Website
Hi hornisti: I'm a fan of Knopf horns, so here's an alert to let you know that Knopf finally has a website listing their available instruments. http://www.knopf-horn.de/ It's in German. No English yet, apparently. Click Instrumente to see the instruments. It looks like they've added a Bb/F descant horn to their lineup, in addition to Knopf and Kruspe-wrap doubles, one compensating double, and a single Bb with stopping valve. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Knopf Horn Website
Sorry, I searched the site but I can't seem to find the flag. Defective eyesight? Defective browser (Mozilla Firefox)? Mischievous gremlin? I've plowed through window, but it just ain't there for me. Richard in Seattle Ashley Grothe wrote: Actually, if you click the little flag on the left side of the page it will translate into English. -Ashley Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:15:31 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; horn@music.memphis.edu CC: Subject: [Hornlist] Knopf Horn Website Hi hornisti: I'm a fan of Knopf horns, so here's an alert to let you know that Knopf finally has a website listing their available instruments. http://www.knopf-horn.de/ It's in German. No English yet, apparently. Click Instrumente to see the instruments. It looks like they've added a Bb/F descant horn to their lineup, in addition to Knopf and Kruspe-wrap doubles, one compensating double, and a single Bb with stopping valve. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/mello-09%40hotmail.com _ Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_InviteFriends___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1497 - Release Date: 6/11/2008 8:32 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Knopf Horn Website
Thanks for the link. That's one combination I didn't try. Richard in Seattle Eric Egle wrote: It works fine with firefox, try this link directly for english: nbsp; http://www.knopf-horn.de/e_index.htm ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Marching Instruments
I think Chris Wilhjelm is on target about the Willson/Getzen instruments. The horn mouthpiece adapters just don't work, but a cornet mouthpiece will. I don't believe Getzen makes any instruments anymore, but imports and stencils. Willson is quite a reputable brass maker from Switzerland. Their web site: http://willsonbrass.com/ If you want to play with a horn mouthpiece, get a Bb marching French Horn. The King 1122 (= Conn 16E I believe) and Yamaha YHR-302M are 3 valve Bb horns in the shape of an overgrown cornet. They are played with a horn mouthpiece and fingered with the right hand. The Yamaha is no longer made (they list the current model as the YHR-322, which is regular their 4 valve Bb French horn.) but is shown on their web site under marching brass. The King brand seems to be gone. Note that the King 1120 is not a marching French horn, but a marching mellophone and should be played with a mellophone mouthpiece. The Conn-Selmer web site does not list any mellophones or marching brass. HOWEVER, there are lots of these instruments around in the used marketplace. I have King 1122, and it plays surprisingly well ($75 on eBay and about 3 hours of repair work - lacquer is still spotty). The only issue I have with it is that like most King horns, the receiver and venturi are on the small side. If the mouthpiece doesn't go in far enough, it feels stuffy and the high register goes flat. I'd suggest a mouthpiece with a wide flat rim for marching. The Bach 10 or 11 would be good, but their shanks run large, and you'd have to fit one to the horn to get good performance. I've been using an old Conn 2, which fits it well and plays well in tune. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Peter the Wolf
Paul: It's the Dvor(ák. Richard in Seattle Paul Mansur wrote: One of the popular cello concertos is also scored for 3 horns. Can't remember which one, but I think it is the Saint Saens or Bruch. Paul Mansur 0On Jun 10, 2008, at 4:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/06/2008 21:23:41 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Peter and the Wolf is scored for three horns. (As are a number of works, such as the Beethoven Sym No. 3) And, of course, the Villa-Lobos saxophone concerto. And, of courseerr..errmmm. Well, there's that Cherubini thing for trumpet, three horns and trombone (or something like that - I know it has three horns). Cheers, Lawrence lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.2.0/1494 - Release Date: 6/10/2008 7:22 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Opinion on Bach horns
Linda wrote: A friend of mine who is an amateur trumpet player wants to take up horn. He asked my opinion on Bach horns, but I know nothing about them. He found a double horn for $1,980 with a list price of $3,765. It sounds like a good deal to him financially. I don't believe he has tried playing the horn. Any thoughts on this brand for horn? Another player on the other list asked a similar question. He had switched from a Jupiter to a Bach. Here is my response to him: Selmer Bach horns were made for a relatively short time. Introduced in 1977 as the Selmer 77, then I believe as the Bach 1101 a few years later. I have worked on one of each. The Selmer had a huge bell and played a lot like a Reynolds Chambers model. The Bach has a somewhat smaller, but still large, bell and has many of the same playing characteristics. Production ceased around 2003-2004. For a couple of years Yamaha YHR-567's were being rebranded as Bach's. Last I heard Bach doubles are now rebranded King Eroica's. It sounds like you may have one of the Yamahas. None of the other models would be likely to overblow and get shrill sounding - the Yamaha has a medium bore taper, the others are all large or very large. Your Jupiter was a large horn, and you should work with a teacher to adjust your style to your new instrument. You may get some improvement by going to a larger mouthpiece, or perhaps you just need to adjust your expectations to what the horn can produce. There are at least three, possibly four different models which could be involved. My experience with them is somewhat limited, but all were good horns. If he's looking for a horn to learn on, I'd suggest looking for a used instrument in good shape for less money. A trumpet player in particular could do very well with a 4 valve single Bb horn (but not a the Chinese POS!). Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Alan Civil Redux
Wendell Rider wrote: Hi all, Alan Civil was a big man, in many ways- a giant, really. I guess the easiest way to describe him was that he looked a lot like the standard version of Santa Claus, only taller. He was a truly unique person, who could play like an angel and do standup comedy at he drop of a hat. I saw him a few times at IHS things and his stories of Dennis Brain and his life in the London music scene were hilarious and telling. He had that classic British dry sense of humor. I did find an image of Alan Civil via Google and it bears (no pun intended) out Wendell's description. He must have been a terrific guy. His recording of the Mozart concerti is one of my favorites. In muddling about the Internet, I also came across a blurb about Peter Civil, Alan's cousin, also a hornplayer. Apparently, he performed for many years with the Montovani Orchestra until it disbanded. Do any British brethren know if he is still with us? Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Alan Civil
Apropos the Alan Civil/Paul McCartney YouTube video: how cool is it to open up your case and assemble your horn AFTER the recording session starts and then pop out that horn obbligato? An amazing professional. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Alan Civil
Ah, well. Another illusion shattered. If that was just a mock recording session, then think of the terrible example it will give future aspiring hornplayers! Still pretty sanguine, though. Never knew what Alan Civil looked like. Should have googled his image first before assuming. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re:[Hornlist] Horn Rental in Munich
Perhaps you could schedule a side trip to Markneukirchen and visit some of the many brass shops there (including the VMI factory, Knopf, Mönnig etc.). You could pick up a new or used instrument there for not too much money and use it while on the road. Then maybe sell it in Munich, bring it back and sell it, or whatever. Just a thought. Richard Hirsh, Chicago who owns four Markneukirchen horns --- from: Lisa Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] Horn Rental in Munich Hello All, I will be visiting Munich for a month starting on June 18th, and I was hoping to rent (or borrow with payment) a horn while I am there. I tried this last summer by contacting music stores but was unsuccessful, so I'm asking all you kind horn-listers for advice. I'd also like to know what other professionals do to keep in shape while traveling when it isn't practical to bring your own horn (which you probably waited years and years to be built and dread the thought of replacing). ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Counting rests
Robert: Reminds me of that old joke: a trumpet player had a nightmare that he was playing the Messiah, and when he woke up...he was! Richard in Seattle Robert Dickow wrote: Counting long rests isn't too bad a problem for me, and I even have a reputation around here for being able to cat-nap briefly during long rests and then miraculously wake up in time for the entry!* But one trick I do use, when conscious, is: when counting sub-divided ultra slow tempos-- is to double the measure count of the rest and then count down in plain old 4/4 instead of 1 2 3 4 Works like a charm. Bob Dickow Lionel Hampton School of Music P.S. No joke. And I can tell myself when to wake in the morning and will awaken to within just a few minutes of my goal. No alarm clock. Don't ask me how that works, because it's a mystery to me. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Flanders Swann
Bill Gross wrote Check the tempo the two use for the piece. As I recall it is much faster than normal. The story I heard was that Flanders used a recording of Brain playing the Mozart to come up with the piece. He was using a record player not quite set right and played back at much faster than normal. So much so that Swann really wore himself out playing the accompaniment at that accelerated tempo. --- I performed Ill Wind as part of a complete concerto performance about a year and a half ago. Michael Flanders was a basso and sang the piece at pitch. His tempo was quite moderate, among other reasons because it takes longer to spit out the text than to simply play it. He did leave out the second episode of the Rondo, so I played it when it came up and then went back to singing. I am a tenor, but have added some bottom as I aged. I was able to sing the part, but I could not rumble out the low Eb's as he did. The lyrics are available at the Flanders and Swann web site: http://www.nyanko.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fas/anotherhat_ill.html Try singing this at a faster tempo than the normal hunting rondo and let me know how you do. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Transcriptions
Jonathan: I'm not a musicologist, but I believe that the string quintet version of the C minor wind serenade was created subsequent to the original (wind) version we all know and love. Probably for the same reasons that Mozart tried to create wind versions of excerpts from his operas (I believe the only one thought to be by Mozart that still exists is from The Abduction from the Seraglio) before they were pirated by others: money. Richard (also a West) in Seattle Jonathan West wrote: snip...and the C minor Serenade for wind octet seems to have been recycled more or less whole as one of his string quintets. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Krazy horn
There's at least one other---or very similar one---in captivity in the Northwest. I've seen it on display at Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works in Seattle (near Sea-Tac Airport). It's on display with other brass and woodwind curiosities in his shop. It's an attempt to create the ideal conical taper, with no individual slides for the valves that I could see through the glass case. Richard in Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a look at this krazy horn. Anyone ever see anything like this before? Anyone ever PLAY on one of these? Where to the valve slides end up? Are the valves tunable? http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-EA-Couturier-Conical-Bore-French-Horn_W0QQitemZ180220503519QQihZ008QQcategoryZ16215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Valerie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Translation help
Martin: From your description the instrument you described sounds like a Plesshorn (there may be other names for it), a bugle-like Bb instrument wound like a mini cor de chasse, used to play fanfares for ceremonial occasions. The one I have has a nickel kranz around the bell and an embossed medallion Fürst-Pless, which stands for Fürstliches Plesshorn (Princely Plesshorn). Engraved below that is engraved Hug Cie/Basel, the dealers from whom I bought it, lo those many years ago. Mine is wrapped almost completely in leather, with a leather strap for carrying it on the shoulder. It came with an instruction manual that includes a number of signals (for hunting, etc.) that can be played on the instrument. Richard in Seattle Martin Bender wrote: Hello all, A friend of mine found an old flugel/bugle/horn thing, without valves at a flea market and wanted to know more about it. Sorry I don't have a picture, but I'd say it was a military band instrument. There is a date on it, and a crest of some sort, but it's hard to make it out because the high spots have been worn down over the years. It came with a bowl-shaped mouthpiece (not too wide a rim) attached by a short length of chain to the leadpipe of the instrument, and appears to be copper with brass trimming and a garland around the edge of the bell. I was able to get a sound out of it, although the horn mouthpice was too small to really fit well without some kind of adapter. The date is 1896, and there is also an inscription which looks like German to me: MEHR SEIN ALS SCHEINEN I'd be grateful if someone could tell me what it means. Thank you! Sincerely, martin bender ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Vintage dress
I note also that coins or metal discs have been soldered on the tips of the valve paddles to extend them, something you see often enough on horns to adapt them to a smaller hand size (or correct a maker's miscalculation). The photo isn't detailed enough to show the mouthpiece clearly, though. Richard in Seattle Simon Varnam wrote: I also note that the hand in the bell is not in an outrageous position. Maybe she IS a horn player. S ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: [horn] Huebler Konzerstueck performance in Seattle - March 9
Steve: The way it works, actually, is that each of us (in alphabetical order of course) plays every fourth note. In each part. It's quite a virtuoso performance. We'd hoped to hand off the horns as well, but that made our conductor just a wee bit nervous. Richard in Seattle Steve Haflich wrote: From: Richard V. West [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... performance of the Carl Heinrich Huebler Konzertstueck for four horns that will be performed by (in alphabetical order) Laurie Heidt, Jim Hendrickson, myself, and Steven Whyte ... Wouldn't the piece be more effective if you all performed it together at the same time? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mute Removal Assistant Needed
Michael: My score (Boosey and Hawkes revised edition of 1943) shows the same markings. I note that horns 1 through 5 are in unison, muted. It seems to me that horns 1 and 3 (at least) could skip the last muted bar before the offen marking to pull out the mute (naturally attached to your wrist with a strap) without seriously harming the passage, which at that point is barely a mf. Another interesting point: at the start of the passage at rehearsal number 32, Mahler has written zu 3 over the 1-3-5 parts, but five bars later the score indicates 1-3, with rests for horn 2, until the open passage starts, where it is notated zu 3 again. This gives horn 2 a chance to get the mute off quite early. Perhaps in consultation with your conductor, you could have the second horn play the horn 4 part for a bar or two at the open passage, to give horn 4 a chance to untangle his/her mute. Horn 5 is doubled by the horn 6 entry at the beginning of the open passage, so that horn 5 could take a quick breather for a beat or two to get the mute out. Whatever happens, good luck! Richard in Seattle Michael Henry wrote: In the third movement of Mahler's Symphony No. 3, rehearsal number 32, horns 1, 3 and 5 are marked mit Dampfer. Eleven bars later the indication offen appears (horns 4 and 8 join in, also marked offen). The issue here is that there is no time to remove the mute. The tempo for this section is clipping along, and offen shows up smack dab in the middle of the passage with no rests. I haven't yet checked the revised (1906) version of the score. I suspect my score is the original version (Kalmus) since no date appears on it. I wonder if this was revised later by Mahler, or if this is just one of those things that us hornists just have to deal with in the best way possible. If this indication is the same in the revised version of the score, well.I suppose I could hire an assistant for mute removal. Or maybe have horns 7 and 8 ( who are not playing) come over and remove our mutes. Any thoughts/advice? -MH ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] IHS 40 in a rough part of Denver?
OK, where's the joke? Seems to be a sophomoric attempt at humor at the expense of Denver? Horn folks? Muggles? Who cares? Richard in Seattle John Baumgart wrote: http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ihs40.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Olds horn
Steve Mumford wrote: Here's a post from Lou Denaro about the Olds horns: I believe the clue to the identity of the horn being described here is the articulated change valve mechanism. I recently bought an Olds horn with in line valves and it has such a mechanism. This is definitely not the Geyer wrapped Olds of the 50s and 60s that can be seen on the Hornarama page elsewhere on the web. In addition to the garland on the bell that says Olds Super the horn also has four rather outsize in-line rotors covered by very substantial brass valve caps with O L D S stamped ac cross them. Another interesting thing is the main tuning slide set up. As opposed to most standard set ups where the lead-pipe goes down and eventually bends back up 180 degrees to join with a vertically oriented main tuning slide, the main tuning slide on this horn begins at point that is 17 inches from the beginning of the mouth-pipe (where the bend reaches approximately 90 degrees), where it is situated horizontally, thereafter curving around 180 degrees to join the bottom (change valve) rotor. The rest of the wrap, the valves, and the bracing are also unconventional. Some parts seem like they could have been sourced from Carl Geyer, the bracing is from the Buick Roadmaster assembly line, while others, namely the valves with brass caps that could double as shot glasses, and the valves themselves, could have been sourced from Fisher Price or some like operation from that era when children's toys were actually made from brass like materials. It's a very interesting horn and it plays quite decently with the help of a strategically placed acousticoil. I gather this is an Olds Super model from the Los Angeles era, prior to the move to Fullerton, and may therefore be a pre WW2 product (Olds didn't produce much during the War and I believe a boatload of saxes that they did produce for military band use went to the bottom with some ship in the Mediterranean). I believe Bernie Marston refers to the fact that Olds tried to make French Horns before the war in an online interview somewhere on the net. Lou --- I have a horn like that in my basement. It is indeed an old Olds, definitely before WW II. It was a novel design, but with some serious flaws. I got mine at the original Giardinelli shop in New York. I really liked the way the horn played, but when I got it home and started to work with it, I found some major problems. For starters, it wouldn't come up to pitch. There were 2 Bb slides, one got the Bb side of the horn up to pitch, but sharp to the F side, the other got the two sides in line but flat. The valves were hand made, hollow built, i.e. sections of brass tubing bent 90° were soldered into a brass cylinder and cut off to form each pair of ports; then circular plates were soldered onto the top and bottom to close off the rotor. Unfortunately the elegant workmanship was wasted, because even after the cylinders had been plated up, the valves leaked badly. The bell was of red brass, the balance of the body of German silver, if I remember right. The main tuning slide was in the tapered portion of the leadpipe, similar in design to tuning slides on many trombones. One side was smaller i.d. tubing than the other. When the tuning slide was pulled, it effected the tuning by changing the leadpipe taper. Paul Navarro examined the horn, and declared it a bad buy, so I have stowed it away for many years and not tried to mess with it. A pity, since the appearance is striking, especially the elegant valve caps. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] UnRaveled Redux
Loren Mayhew wrote: Phil Farkas set the example we hornists can follow. Someone else certainly can relate this story better than I, but here is the gist of it. After he left Chicago, he was on tour with the St. Louis Symphony (I believe) as a floater. During one of the performances, the 1st horn was supposed to play a solo at a difficult-to-count entrance that really needed a cue from the conductor which he didn't get. He missed his entrance and he was furious at the conductor. Ready to tear him apart afterwards. Mr. Farkas grabbed him and told him something along the lines of, Let it go. Tomorrow you will get a cue you can't miss. The next night, he get a nice big cue with a big smile on the conductor's face. - Well, not to diminish the gist of the story, it doesn't sound like the St. Louis Symphony. At the time you are describing, Ed Murphy was principal. He would not have had trouble counting, and if he got angry, he would carefully plot his revenge rather than blow up. (He was also personnel manager and became assistant conductor near the end of his tenure.) I know that they were acquainted - Farkas lent him a descant horn to discourage him from using his mellophone on the Ravel concerto et al. - but I never heard of Farkas playing in St. Louis. Richard Hirsh, now of Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Brahms Trio
Bill: Thanks. The penny dropped when I read the quote from the Rehbergs. It's been mooted for years (possibly substantiated by documentation, for all I know) that the second movement of the Trio is essentially an in memorium for the composer's mother. Therefore, specifying the natural horn for the Trio was not only expressing Brahm's own partiality for the natural horn but an act of filial devotion. Now this could lead to a dissertation! Richard in Seattle William Melton wrote: Alright an easy question for a quiet Sunday evening. Why did Brahms specify that his horn trio should be played on a natural horn? Lawrence, you have a piratical streak that I admire, and this is a veritable fireship you've sent floating our way. Some involved answers so far, but none that have addressed your very simple question head on -- why? Brahms biographers Walter and Paula Rehberg put it this way: Brahms hatte eine Schwaeche fuer das einfache Waldhorn, das er in der Jugend zur Freude seiner Mutter selbst viel blies. No lengthy biographical or psychological digressions, and certainly no need to open a dissertation. Despite trying his best, Brahms was not present at his mother's death, and it seems he wanted to please her one more time with a sound he knew that she loved. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Two Horn books for sale
Listers: I have two duplicate horn-related books I'd like to sell. If interested, please contact me off-list for price and details: Verne Reynolds, The Horn Handbook (new) Murray Schisgal, Days and Nights of a French Horn Player (used, but excellent condition) Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] The string and the corks
Dear Borje: The reason you can't find strings on your Alexander is that you very likely have a model with full mechanical linkage. German horn makers often offer their models with either full mechanical (apparently favored in Europe, but not universally) and string linkage (apparently favored in the United States, but not universally). When I've been in Germany, the string linkage was often referred to as The American System. I presume that this may mean that the string system was first developed in North America. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I knows the history of this. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. The full mechanical system tends to wear out and create clicking, unless cared for. That means frequent oiling of all the bearings (but not over oiling) to maintain smoothness, speed, and reduce clatter. The string system (in my experience) is much quieter, very smooth and fast---if the strings are correctly installed and with the proper tension (this latter is often overlooked when strings are replaced by amateurs). One drawback is that strings do wear out and break, usually just before or in the middle of a concert! Richard in Seattle Borje Lofblad wrote: Hi all, I have just aquired the Philp Farkas book The art of French horn playing It is certainly a most interesting book. snip 2) Early in the book he describes how you change a string underneath the rotary valves with really some detaials on selecting the correct material for this particular string. Sorry to say I can not locate any strin under the valvea on may grandsons Alexander 103 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Another phenomenally dumb question...
From my own experience, I don't find that medium throat horns are any more notchy than wide throat horns. I use my right hand all the time for intonation purposes on both types of horns (I own one of each and do switch between them depending on circumstances). For me, adjusting intonation while playing in an ensemble is a combination of lipping and hand adjustment, depending on a lot of factors. My own preference is to do a minimum of lip adjustment, depending more on the hand, especially in those places where an instantaneous adjustment is needed to match with my colleagues or other instruments. My embouchure is such that when I'm locked into the sweet zone I really hate to mess with lipping up or down except in the most minor way. It's hard to analyze, though, since after so many years I do whatever is necessary to get into tune without thinking about it. The third component, and probably the most important, is your ear! Richard in Seattle PS. The first step, of course, is to make sure that your horn is as much in tune with itself as is possible and learn where the compromises are so you're prepared to adjust them in performance. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've noticed that some players who play horns w/ medium bell throats, seem to use their right hand quite a bit more than I do for intonation adjustments. My Silver Flash (Holton 179)is easily lipped in tune w/o affecting tone, so I rarely use my hand to adjust pitch. So here are my Q's: (1) Is it a general characteristic of large bell throat horns to have wider notes and are thus easier to lip in tune? (2) Conversely, is it a general characteristic of medium bell throat horns to be more notchy so the hand must be used more? Valerie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] lead / lead
Dawn McCandless wrote: At the same time as writing the question the wish in my mind was that there was a different way to spell the two words. Wondered how long it would take for someone to comment about them. Maybe we could start a new spelling for the long E version and make it leade. Well, one solution would be to use the alternative word mouthpipe, leaving the word lead to describe the soft, heavy, inelastic, malleable, ductile, bluish-grey (or gray) metallic element designated Pb in the fourth group of the periodic table. The confusion between a leadpipe and a lead pipe is peculiar to the English language, I guess. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mozart Concerto #3
Tim Kecherson wrote: I am playing Mozart's 3rd Horn Concerto in June, and I am looking for a cadenza to play. Is the cadenza necessary? If so, where can I find one? Thank you very much. -- Timothy Kecherson In the first movement, absolutely. It doesn't have to be long. Listen to as many recordings as possible to hear the various ways in which a cadenza can be built from the themes of the first movement. A long time ago, Christopher Leuba (I think) transcribed all the cadenzas which up to that time had been recorded (late 60s? early 70s?) for the various Mozart concerti. They were published in a magazine like the Instrumentalist but my memory is very hazy about this (it's called the attorney general syndrome). Perhaps someone on this list can recall the exact source. Based on what you hear and what you can play, you can create your ownthat's the whole point of a cadenza when the composer hasn't written one out. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: C.F. Schmidt History
Thanks Kendall, and Steve Mumford, too, for the corrected information on Schmidt and the American horn makers. It's always good to get things straight, especially given the lack of documentation and the urban legends that have grown up around horn making (perhaps fabrication would be good word to use here) and makers. Richard in Seattle KendallBetts wrote: Actually, the 8D leadpipe is copied from the Schmidt, as are many others including Geyer, Reynolds, King, Olds, Holton, generic Allied, etc. It's a long, gradual F horn taper. It's probably a better pipe than the Kruspe pipes in regard to intonation but both have upper register problems. It's the alloy where Conn really made a boo-boo. They used plain old nickel-silver and not the nickel-bronze type alloy that Kruspe used. That helps explain the difference in sound between silver Kruspe's and the Conn 8D. Close, but not quite a cigar. As Howard mentioned, Schmidt's were fine instruments and used by many top players including John Barrows, Jim Buffington, Forrest Standley, Dick Mackey, and Dale Clevenger. The Conn 4D and 6D tapers were copied from the Schmidt and wrapped up different. KB Steve Mumford wrote: Although it has been said, it isn't at all true. Many of the Conn Schmidt model horns said made in Germany on the valve lever support. That was true only of the rotary valve set which was made by Martin Peter in Germany, not the same valves used by Schmidt. The rest of the horn, including the piston valve, bell, crooks etc., etc. was good ole Elkhart construction. The Conn Schmidt model was known as the 6D. It was retired in '34 (?) and they started making the 6D we're more familiar with today, having the rotary thumb valve. By then, the rotary valves were made by Conn themselves. Buescher did a similar thing. They had a horn in the 20s that looked exactly like an Alexander 103. The valves were made in Germany, the rest of the parts were made in Elkhart. They were not the same valves used by Alex. York had a Schmidt model horn with German rotary valves, everything else made by York. There were later iterations that were completely made in Italy and branded York. King made everything in-house! Hard core all they way! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: C.F. Schmidt History
The Conn 8D was modeled after the Horner model Kruspe. The Schmidt features a piston F/Bb change valve, rather than a rotary valve. Many people, especially with smaller hands, have found this awkward. Several Schmidt owners have had a metal lever extension made to replace the piston button in order to minimize the stretch. Conn, however, at one time did make a Schmidt copy double horn. Richard in Seattle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: was the conn 8d modeled after the Schmidt? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] C.F. Schmidt History
Here's a little more on the history of C.F. Schmidt: The firm of C.F. Schmidt was established in Berlin ca. 1880. In that year it was issued German patent #12814 for improvements to brass instruments. By 1888, Schmidt opened a second workshop in Weimar and was later appointed Court maker to the Grand Duchy of Weimar. In 1899, this workshop merged with the main workshop in Berlin.^ http://www.rjmartz.com/horns/Schmidt/cfschmidt.html#note5 The shop continued to produce horns after the First World War since many extant examples are engraved with Weimar as the place of manufacture with no reference to Berlin. The Schmidt wrap was copied by several makers including Rampone-Cazzani, August Knopf, Richard Wunderlich, Carl Geyer, Lorenzo Sansone, http://mysite.verizon.net/vze787q6/windshieldbug/id16.htmlKing (more or less) and Conn. In the case of Conn, it's been said that they imported all the parts from C.F. Schmidt and assembled them in the US to avoid import duties on completed instruments, simply adding their name. More recently the design has been used in horns made by S.W. Lewis, Karl Hill (Kortesmaki), George McCracken, and Yamaha model 863. A table of the various bell inscriptions with dates can be seen at http://www.rjmartz.com/horns/Schmidt/cfschmidt.html Hope this helps clear up some of the confusion. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: OT: Is there a trumpet list similar to this horn list?
Snip 1. Do some/many/most professional orchestral trumpet players own trumpets pitched in C for playing things at concert pitch? 2. Do some/many/most who play Baroque music or other music written for Eb trumpet own and use an Eb trumpet? I helped a local band director transpose some Eb trumpet parts so that Bb players could play them normally, and they really did end up being quite high. I also can't imagine someone playing the first movement of the Haydn trumpet concerto on a Bb instrument (although I guess it's possible). - Many of the good classical trumpet players in Chicago travel with 4 horns: Bb, C, D/Eb, and piccolo. All those I have worked with also know how to transpose into many keys. Most use the C trumpet as their primary instrument, and some don't even own a Bb horn. Those who play mostly second generally have a Bb horn to avoid missing notes at the bottom of their register. Trumpet parts come in almost as wide a variety of keys as horn parts, and for much the same reason - writing for older valveless instruments created a tradition of writing for the instrument in many keys as if it were valveless, even after most players were using valved horns. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Intonation variables on different horns
Valerie, Tuning any horn is a process involving a lot of variables. The right balance of air pressure/flow, hand position, internal vowel formation and lots of hardware issues are involved. Going from a large bore horn to a smaller one, I would pay particular attention to hand position. A slightly more open position with the medium bore bell may improve things. If you get in-tune octaves throughout the range, you are probably good; otherwise some experimentation is in order. With a smaller horn and more back pressure, there is a tendency to allow the soft palate to collapse. The resultant distortions are evidenced by a sour and/or edgy tone. Just some possible issues. Regards, Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] re:Auf dem stom
Leonard wrote I've got Auf dem Strom with Peter Pears and Dennis Brain. Pears sounds like he has the mike in his hand and poor Dennis is fighting to be heard. Having a huge tenor really changes the feeling of the song for sure! I sang behind Peter Pears near the end of his life and attended a couple of his master classes. What generally does not come through in his various recordings is the enormous size and weight of his voice. But he was also an extremely sensitive artist, and balance problems in the old recordings can reasonably be laid off to the recording engineer and producer emphasizing what they perceived to be the important part. There was a stylistically similar recording made in the late 1970's by Robert Tear with the horn and piano from Nash Ensemble, whose names escape me. Quite satisfying and good German diction. I have been working on the tenor part, having performed the horn part some years back, and I have enormous admiration for singers with heavy voices who are able to sustain the high tessitura. Even for a lyric tenor voice, this is a challenging piece, which is no doubt why it tends to sung more often by sopranos, for whom the tessitura is very comfortable. It then takes on a Sapphic tone, since the beloved is clearly a woman. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Auf dem strom
hans wrote: And, Richard, playing the piece in E on the F-horn does not create fingering problems, while playing it on the Bb-horn creates fingering problems. Hans: You're correct. When I wrote that, I really was referring to playing it on the F/Bb double (nominally treated as F horn), so where you choose to switch to the Bb side could contribute to the fingering challenges. Although I've never played the piece with a horn crooked in E, from the part it looks like the fingering on a (valve) horn in E would be rather straightforward. Richard (now in 2008) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Auf dem strom
DalleyHN wrote: That reminds me, based on the text it seems natural that the voice should be a tenor. Good call! Auf dem Strom was originally written for a tenor, specifically Ludwig Tietze, who sang it at its premier on March 26, 1828 with Schubert himself at the piano and J.R. Lewy performing the horn part, probably on a two-valve (possibly three-valve) horn. A valved horn pitched in E would have none of the cross-fingering problems that vex an F horn player transposing the part. I've played this piece both in E as well as D horn to accommodate the range of specific singers. The D transposition is less taxing endurance-wise (Schubert is very stingy with rests), but does little to simplify the fingering. Richard in Seattle wishing all a Happy New Year! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] totally original poem for Clamsaa
Leonard: Thank you for the delightful poem that complements Kendall Betts' magnum opus. Now, there are two for Christmas! If you were Austrian, I'd almost think you were referring to Krampus, the evil and mischievous demon who accompanies St. Nikolaus on his rounds on December 6 in Austria. It rhymes with Tus! Richard in Seattle Leonard Peggy Brown wrote: ~The Night Before Clamsaa~ By Leonard L. Brown Twas the night before clamsaa when all through the pit not a horn was playing, not even a Schmidt The cases were standing alone by each chair in fears that St. Hubertus soon would be there; The players were nestled all snug in their beds while visions of Geyers danced in their heads; and I in my tux with a cumberbun quite pink Had just settled down to long night of drink; When out on the beach there arose such a splash I rolled off my table, and fell flat on my ash. Away to the window I crawled in low gear tore open the shutters to see what was near. The moon on the beach shown such a light I winced while watching from being so tight; when to my eyes that drink had befud a miniature truck drove out of the mud With a little old driver whose clothes were amus I knew in a moment it must be St. Tus More rapid than Bruckner his helpers they came and he whistled and shouted and called them by name: Now Lowell! Now Paul! Now Dennis and Phil! On Wes, On Aubrey, On Herman and Bill! To the edge of the beach to the top of the wall now come on boys, come on boys push it! Push it all! As old cheese that before the nose befouls as helpers these guys were no better than cows but they pushed the truck up this talented crew with a cargo of clams and St. Hubertus too. And then while tinkling, I heard in the mire the spinning and groaning of each little tire. As I affixed my zipper and was turning around to the stage St. Hubertus came with a bound He was dressed in Velvet from his head to his knees and his clothes were all stained with valve oil and greas’. A case of clams he had brought on his back and dropped on stage ; it landed with a smack His eyes- how they twinkled, and his grin how hellish as the box of clams started to raise a great smellish his droll little mouth was drawn in a sneer Then I knew that clamsaa must be coming quite near The stump of a mouthpiece he held tight in his teeth and a brasso smell encircled his head like a wreath he had broad face and was not at all cute his body was shaped much as a stopping mute He was plump as Myers, a right scary old elf And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself; A wink of his eye and a twist of his head soon gave me to know I had much to dread. He spoke not a word but opened the box; the stench of clam filled the room like a pox I have clams for amateur and clams for pros and clams for schoolkids, I even have those! I have thinking clams and clams for counting and clams for entrances, said he, his enthusiasm mounting I have clams for high notes and even for the rest I have clams for the worst and clams for the best He sprang to his clam truck and gave his section a call and suddenly they were out of the pit and out of the hall But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight Happy clamsaa to all, to all a bad night. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece with Schmid horn
Is this a trick question? The answer: the one that works for you :-) Richard in Seattle Robert Fant wrote: I was wondering what kind of mouthpiece everyone prefers with a E. Schmid horn? Thank you. Robert ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Kruspe Code Addendum
I forgot to include this link in my last posting. It's a later Kruspe catalogue, I think, that illustrates the horns, but without the model numbers (with one exception). There are also a couple of additional horn models shown: http://www.geocities.co.jp/MusicHall-Horn/2569/kruspe/krusp.html It's a Japanese site, and when you get to the horn pages, you'll need to click on the underlined phrase at the bottom of the page (it's indecipherable on my screen) to get to the next page. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] The Kruspe Code
Hello Listers: From time to time on both lists during the past several years, individuals have written asking about Kruspe serial numbers. The short answer to that is that Kruspe horns (and most vintage German horns) never had serial numbers given by the factory. What Kruspe horns often have engraved on the bell, however, is a DRGM number. This code has mystified many. At the risk of being expelled from the arcane horn organization known as Opus Doowah, let me demystify this code. I'm able to do this now courtesy of William Melton, who kindly sent me a photocopy of a Kruspe catalogue from the late 1920s-early 1930s that includes some of those code numbers. Klaus Bjerre may have this information already on his excellent website, but I haven't found it. Apologies to Klaus if it is. First of all, DRGM stands for Deutsches Reichs-Gebrauchsmuster which was a number assigned by the German government in the late 19th and early 20th century to register a design and protect it from being copied by other manufacturers. So, a horn that featured a new layout or combination of features could presumably be registered and a numbered certificate was awarded by the government. That's the number that is engraved on the bell of many, but not all Kruspe horns. Somewhere along the line, possibly in the 1930s, this seems to have been dropped. It also may not have appeared on horns made for export. Perhaps there is a German lister who knows more about this usage. In any event, the catalogue identifies several Kruspe horn models by DRGM number. I'm listing them below in the hopes that it might help some vintage Kruspe owners to identify their horn model. 1. Full F/Bb double, Modell Fritz Kruspe DRGM 232038 I've never seen this one in real life, but from the illustration it looks like it may not have a separate Bb tuning slide. Medium throat. 2. Full F/Bb double, Modell Horner, Philadelphia DRGM 232038 The same DRGM number! The layout is close, but there is a definite Bb tuning slide and it comes mit extra weitem Becher and Mundrohr. I've never seen the term Becher (literally cup or beaker) used for what I presume is the bell, instead of the more common Schalltrichter, but perhaps it refers to the bell and width of the throat combined, or bell branch. Any clarification here would be appreciated. Mundrohr is mouth pipe. Large throat and mouth pipe. 3. Full F/Bb double, Model Walter Kruspe DRGM 1027194 Also known as the New Symphony model. It has a separate Bb tuning slide and medium throat. 4. Compensating F/Bb double, Modell Gumbert-Kruspe DRGM 295125 The F/Bb change valve looks smaller in diameter than the other valve and the the third valve slide is squared off rather than gracefully curved. Gumbert seems to be a typo for Gumpert. 5. Compensating F/Bb double, Modell Professor Wendler, Boston DRGM 888990 Somewhat different layout compared to Gumbert/Gumpert model and all valves appear to be the same diameter. Third valve slide is curved. There are a few other horns shown without DRGM numbers, such as: 6. Bb single horn with F extension and stop/transposing valve, Modell Lorenzo Sansone, New York Kruspe also made these as stencil horns for Sansone. 7. Bb single horn with F extension and stop/transposing valve, Modell Gretsch, Brooklyn-N.Y. Similar layout to Sansone model, except that F extension crook is bent to lay flat over the entire valve chest, presumably to make access to the second and third valve slides easier than on the Sansone model. 8. Bb single with thumb valve for A transposition. There is also a straight Bb single, three valves, and three single F horns, one with three valves, one with a thumb valve for E transposition, and a third, Spanisches Modell, with and Eb extension actuated by a twist valve (Stellventil). This list is probably incomplete in many respects, as Kruspe continued to make changes and modifications on its horns over the years. I'd certainly appreciate and corrections or addenda to this list. If you're interested in learning more about Kruspe's role in the invention of the double horn, or the part that Gumbert/Gumpert and Wendler played in its development, you should read John Ericson's article in the February 1998 issue of the Horn Call. An updated version of it is available at: http://www.public.asu.edu/~jqerics/double.htm Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Lead pipes for Conn 8D
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had that done, and that did signicantly improve my accuracy (my father bought it in 1967, it was played from then through 2007, sat in the closet for 20 years, then I resumed playing 8 years ago, and the valves had never been redone). Er, Ross, let me get my calculator and my calendaris it really 2035? Can anyone offer any input on the advantages of a replacement lead pipe? And I understand that Lawson is not the only type of replacement lead pipe available. What are the relative pluses and minuses of the lead pipes offered by the different companies making them? Jim Patterson also makes great Conn 8D lead pipes, first branches, as well as other conversions. His website is: www.hornworks.com/ournew8d.htm By the way, another Ross Taylor (now deceased) was principal horn of the San Francisco Symphony in the 1960s. Any relation? Richard in Seattle (who'd love to be an underpaid professional but is currently just underpaid) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Carter Horn Concerto
I can vouchsafe Joel Lazar's opinion. An orchestra in which I play, Philharmonia Northwest, performed David Lamb's work last season with Mark Robbins (Seattle Symphony) as soloist. It is all that Joel says and is well worth playing as well as hearing. Richard in Seattle Joel Lazar wrote: David Lamb wrote in response to Adam Black: Ah yes! I couldn't agree more. What you need is my concert piece for horn and chamber orchestra! David Lamb in Seattle David's piece, which he was kind enough to share with me both in recording and score, is attractive, graceful, and I suspect, quite idiomatic. I hope it finds appreciative audiences and many satisfied performers. Very best wishes for the holidays-- Joel Lazar [conductor] Bethesda Maryland PS: I'm a great Carter fan, too, but then my tastes have always been wildly eclectic. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Elliot Carter Horn Concerto
Chacun a son gout...I guess. Nevertheless, I thought the whole point of blowing the horn was to make music, so doesn't talking about music have a place on this list? Comparing the various attributes of valve oil makes for interesting chit-chat, now and then, but I don't think that it's an end in itself, do you? What's the point of playing that high f above c without a musical context? Might as well take up weight lifting. I'm an old reprobate. I didn't like Schoenberg until the first time I played a Schoenberg composition. Ditto Webern and Petrassi. I didn't think much of Berio until a trombonist friend of mine, Stu Dempster, performed---and I do mean performed---a Berio piece. While I still would rather play anything by Brahms or Mozart or [insert name of favorite composer here] in comparison to some contemporary composers, the fact remains that our instrument is being presented with new challenges that are certainly worth discussing. Richard in Seattle Susan Thompson wrote: I agree that valve oil is more interesting...even when I'm playing natural horn. --Susan Thompson Kendall Betts wrote: Personally, I don't care much for Elliot Carter's music. Valve oil and it's related subjects are more interesting. Anybody agree? KB ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Wood Horn Mutes
Jennie Ficks wrote: Distinguished Colleagues, Recently I borrowed a birchwood horn mute from a horn professor (while traveling) to play some chamber music repertoire with strings. She bought it overseas. It was handmade with no brand on it. I was really taken by the lovely sound the wooden mute produced, and have decided to purchase one of my own. I have many other mutes, so don't need the wood mute to multi-task. I would be purchasing it solely to play chamber music with strings and/or woodwinds. A colleague recommended the Dennis Wick mutes, and they are reasonably priced. I do not know for certain that they are birch, or if that even makes a difference. Can anyone help with some recommendations/guidance? Thank you very much (again) for sharing your expertise! Jennie --- Several good suggestions have been listed. Another good wooden mute is the Moosic, from Moosic, PA. It is made by shaping strips of birch around a hot metal mold, and gluing the resulting layered assembly to a heavier birch base. (The technique is basically the same as used to make curved ribs for string instruments. The result is a curved (dare one say catenoid?) shape, rather than the typical cone or cone section. Osmun lists them; you can contact them on line at [EMAIL PROTECTED]; and there are usually one or two for sale on eBay at a discount. They are tunable and seem to fit a wider range of bell sizes and shapes without adjustment than any other I have tried. The sound is relatively open and fairly loud. For more edge, I keep my old Griffith in the bag as well. Regards, Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Another Kruspe question
Dawn: A good single F horn, by virtue of its lighter mass and often cleaner arrangement of tubing, is often more responsive than the F side of an equivalent double horn. There is a Japanese website that has images from an old 1930s Kruspe catalogue that includes several single F models. The url is: http://www.geocities.co.jp/MusicHall-Horn/2569/kruspe/krusp.html. You might want to compare your horn with the images to see if it is one of those models. If you don't have a broadband connection, though, downloading the images might take some time. Richard in Seattle Dawn McCandless wrote: To All, Is the Kruspe single just another horn then to most people since it is a single horn? Or, could there be some significane to it because it is a Kruspe horn? I still have an old Getzen single F (Caravelle) sitting around the house that I picked up at an auction in town, cleaned and have been trying to sell. I'll tell you what, the playability between the two, even if the Kruspe is just a single student model, is by far a better horn. It plays better, all except the sort of krinkled lead pipe makes the really high notes harder than necessary. All in all, the only reason I'd keep it around is for an extra horn to have if my regular double ever has to go to the shop for a while for some unexplained reason. Still, though, it's kind of neat to have a piece of history. I still need to figure out how to get on the Kruspe site. We are still working with old phone lines and the old way of internet... Dawn ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornfella%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Kruspe trim
Dawn: Nickel-silver braces, rotor caps, valve slide casings, etc. as you describe are standard practice on most brass horns. But where is the worn ring you describe? Is it around the bell throat or the perimeter (rim) of the bell? Some horns have an ornamental krantz (wreath) in a contrasting metal applied to the rim of the bell. However, it seems pretty unlikely that this horn would have had one that was later removed. Self-sticking tape (like electrician's tape) applied to brass can sometimes affect the lacquer and discolor the area under it if left on for a long period. Richard in Seattle Dawn McCandless wrote: A bit more on the Kruspe: The rotor caps, slide casings, lead pipe, little finger hook, thumb hook, the ferrule where the bell flare meets the body of the horn, brace to bell and diamond shaped plate on the bell are silver colored. snip What really struck me as odd was around the outside of the bell there is a worn spot encircling the bell- where the lacquer is pretty void as if something else had been there at one time. It really looks like there might have been a tone ring on the bell. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Kruspe question
Hi Dawn: As far as I know, Kruspe horns rarely, if ever, had actual production serial numbers. What they often had, however, was the design patent number engraved on the bell below the Kruspe eagle trademark. The design patent number is commonly preceded by the initials D.R.G.M (Deutsches Reich Geschuetz Nummer), for example D.R.G.M. 1027194, which is the design patent number for the Kruspe New Symphony or Walter Kruspe full double horn (not the Horner model). Most Kruspe horn designs had specific design patent numbers. If you do find an actual serial number, I'd love to hear about it. If the horn is engraved Made in Germany it was probably intended for export, not domestic use. My guess is that it predates WW2. A large number of German horns were imported into the United States during the 1920s and 1930s for professional and student use. This stopped, of course, during the war and didn't restart until German industrial reconstruction in the early 1950s, and only then from the Western Zone. Alexander, for example, being in Mainz was in West Germany (BRD), while Kruspe (Erfurt) and Knopf (Markneukirchen) were in East Germany (DDR) and able to export to the West only in very small numbers, either under stringent state supervision or the occasional smuggled instrument. You can see the current Kruspe setup on their website http://www.edkruspe.de/index_en.html It's a little difficult to navigate, but does have an English version with a brief history of the company. Richard in Seattle Dawn McCandless wrote: Hi, Just obtained an old Single Kruspe horn. Where would one find any serial numbers? There is a 16 on the bottom of the middle valve cap. Is that it? The horn is brass, has string rotors and says: EDKRUSPE, ERFURT and Made in Germany. It was the previous owners fathers horn and he is 85 now and they guess the horn is about 65 years old. That puts it about 1942 from those estimates. It's not in perfect condition and, unfortunately, has hints of red rot. Couple dings. The keys were clacky, but quieted down with thick key oil. Before oiling the rotors I pulled the 3 slides and they did pop when pulled out. It has a wonderful tone. Guess despite it's appearance and old age problems it isn't dead yet! Oh, I do have another question. How did they consider these single horns back then? Was it made as a student horn as they tell people single horns are now a days (at least here in the states... ). Or, is it considered a normal horn despite the fact it is a single horn in F? Dawn Marie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Kruspe question
Hi Ed: That number is presumably a part identification number. On my New Symphony Model Kruspe, the thumb valve cap and upper bearing plate are stamped with 35, while the other three valve caps and bearing plates are stamped 12, 11. and 10. My guess is that these numbers were employed to avoid confusion and make sure that the same parts were always associated with the same valve and casing. It also may be that the DRGM number was only engraved on domestic instruments and replaced with Made in Germany for export. To add to the confusion, Kruspe, like Alexander, made a number of stencil horns in the pre-war years that were sold under other brand names in the US. The Sansone-designed 5 valve Bb horn is a good example of this. Both Kruspe and Alexander made them for Sansone. Richard in Seattle Ed Glick wrote: snip As far as I can see, there is nothing that looks like a typical serial number on the instrument; there is, however, a two digit number on the third valve assembly. Although it's an unusual spot for a serial number, perhaps that was meant to be one. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] 5 valve single horn???
Valerie: If the horn is indeed a single Bb, which seems quite likely, the fourth valve is generally an F extension to allow getting into the low register. The fifth valve would be typically a stopping valve, lowering the pitch by approximately 3/4 of a step (to allow in tune stopping for the shorter length of the Bb horn). One way to double check whether the horn is a Bb single is to pull the furst valve slide off that horn and compare it with the first valve slide on a F horn or the F side of a double horn. It should be shorter if it's Bb. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Horn Blog
Excuse the double listing. This may not be news to many of you, but I recently stumbled upon an interesting and helpful horn blog authored by John Ericson of ASU. I have often mined his many articles on the history of the horn in the nineteenth century (especially his research on the Kopprasch etudes, both Opp. 5 and 6), but did not discover his blog until now. The link is: http://hornnotes.blogspot.com Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] hard to find mpc's
Valerie: I have a Conn 3B-N that I currently use. I, too, have looked for a 3B-W, but have been told there is no W version. There is, however, a 7B-W mouthpiece, but it has a totally different cup configuration (shallower, I believe). Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
