Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Carl D Hamann]

>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 7:41pm, Ken Fallon  wrote:
>
> I am producing a report into the chain of events that took place. I have
>
> requested the community members who expressed concern about moving the
> shows review it. With the goal to report back to the list with their
> opinions on the matter
>
> I've had a chance to read through the report and consider the situation.
It seems clear to me that the HPR policies were followed meticulously, and
beyond that, the communication with the host was amicable and sought to
encourage contributing the titular content of the show. I'd scarcely
consider it chilling, let alone censorship, on th part of HPR.

Utmost consideration,
- Laindir

>
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Dave Lee (HPR)]

(Sorry for the repost, my mail client isn't clever enough to realise which email address I wanted to send this from...)

Hi everyone,

Ken has kindly shared with me the detail surround this particular episode. 

I understand Ken's reluctance to publicise the full detail at this time, due to the potential impact on the individuals involved.  This situation is not as straight-forward as it might appear on the surface, but this not a simple case of censorship.  It is my opinion that Ken's dealings with this have been completely on point, and I am in full support of his actions.

As the host has agreed to (and, in fact they offered) the removal of the episode from being published on HPR, that is what I recommend is done.

Many thanks,
Dave

 via Newton Mail On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 10:17pm, Ken Fallon  wrote:
  

  
  
Thanks Dave,


I removed the show. 



In other news we appear to have a call
  for shows open ;-)

  -- 
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

On 2022-03-24 23:05, Dave Lee wrote:


  
  
  Hi everyone,
  
  Ken has kindly
shared with me the detail surround this particular episode.  
  
  I understand
Ken's reluctance to publicise the full detail at this time, due
to the potential impact on the individuals involved.  This
situation is not as straight-forward as it might appear on the
surface, but this not a simple case of censorship.  It is my
opinion that Ken's dealings with this have been completely on
point, and I am in full support of his actions.
  
  As the host
has agreed to (and, in fact they offered) the removal of the
episode from being published on HPR, that is what I recommend is
done.
  
  Many thanks,
  Dave
  
   via Newton
  Mail 
  On Thu,
Mar 24, 2022 at 7:41pm, Ken Fallon 
wrote:
  
  

  The host has got back in touch with me after been
away for a few weeks 
without Internet access.
  We now have the permission to remove the show.
  I have brought this thread to their attention.
  I am producing a report into the chain of events
that took place. I have 
requested the community members who expressed concern about
moving the 
shows review it. With the goal to report back to the list
with their 
opinions on the matter.
-- 
  Regards,
  Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
kenfallon.com
hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
  
  On 2022-03-23 07:46, stankd...@stankdawg.com
wrote:
> Replying to the original but read all the responses.
>
> I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for
better communication with the contributor and the community.
He has that much respect to be open about it. Don’t
overthink it.  Don’t jump to conclusions on any reasons
until the communication is complete. You may never even find
out.
>
> Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free
speech and are against censorship. But just like forums or
tv shows or web sites we must have boundaries. Again I have
no idea if there are content issues with this show that
cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry
censorship if I or the admins/janitors/etc choose to
disallow a show that promotes hateful or illegal activity.
That is not censorship. That is safety and responsibility. 
You must trust the system and again I trust Ken completely.
>
> Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and
assume positive intent of the people who have been
successfully running this show for several years. I am
certain that they have earned that respect.
>
> -StankDawg
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
>> On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I
spoke to the host about it and it is not clear if they want
to remove it or replace it. I think they are off line for a
bit as they haven't replied.
>>
>> Can I move the show out past the Community News so
that the current slot can be freed up ? Hopefully that will
give time for the host to reply.
>>
>> -- 
>> Regards,
   

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Thanks Dave,

I removed the show.

In other news we appear to have a call for shows open ;-)

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

On 2022-03-24 23:05, Dave Lee wrote:


Hi everyone,


Ken has kindly shared with me the detail surround this particular 
episode.



I understand Ken's reluctance to publicise the full detail at this 
time, due to the potential impact on the individuals involved.  This 
situation is not as straight-forward as it might appear on the 
surface, but this not a simple case of censorship.  It is my opinion 
that Ken's dealings with this have been completely on point, and I am 
in full support of his actions.



As the host has agreed to (and, in fact they offered) the removal of 
the episode from being published on HPR, that is what I recommend is done.



Many thanks,

Dave


via Newton Mail 
 


On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 7:41pm, Ken Fallon  wrote:

The host has got back in touch with me after been away for a few
weeks
without Internet access.

We now have the permission to remove the show.

I have brought this thread to their attention.

I am producing a report into the chain of events that took place.
I have
requested the community members who expressed concern about moving
the
shows review it. With the goal to report back to the list with their
opinions on the matter.
-- 


Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
kenfallon.com


hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon



On 2022-03-23 07:46, stankd...@stankdawg.com wrote:
> Replying to the original but read all the responses.
>
> I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better
communication with the contributor and the community. He has that
much respect to be open about it. Don’t overthink it.  Don’t jump
to conclusions on any reasons until the communication is complete.
You may never even find out.
>
> Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech
and are against censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or
web sites we must have boundaries. Again I have no idea if there
are content issues with this show that cross any of those
boundaries or any show. But don’t cry censorship if I or the
admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that promotes
hateful or illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is
safety and responsibility. You must trust the system and again I
trust Ken completely.
>
> Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume
positive intent of the people who have been successfully running
this show for several years. I am certain that they have earned
that respect.
>
> -StankDawg
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
>> On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the
host about it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or
replace it. I think they are off line for a bit as they haven't
replied.
>>
>> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the
current slot can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for
the host to reply.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
>> kenfallon.com 
>> hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

>>
>
-- 
Regards,


Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
kenfallon.com 
hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org



___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

The host has got back in touch with me after been away for a few weeks 
without Internet access.


We now have the permission to remove the show.

I have brought this thread to their attention.

I am producing a report into the chain of events that took place. I have 
requested the community members who expressed concern about moving the 
shows review it. With the goal to report back to the list with their 
opinions on the matter.

--

Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-03-23 07:46, stankd...@stankdawg.com wrote:

Replying to the original but read all the responses.

I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better communication 
with the contributor and the community. He has that much respect to be open 
about it. Don’t overthink it.  Don’t jump to conclusions on any reasons until 
the communication is complete. You may never even find out.

Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and are against 
censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or web sites we must have 
boundaries. Again I have no idea if there are content issues with this show 
that cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry censorship if I 
or the admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that promotes hateful or 
illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is safety and responsibility.  
You must trust the system and again I trust Ken completely.

Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive intent 
of the people who have been successfully running this show for several years. I 
am certain that they have earned that respect.

-StankDawg

Sent from my iPhone.


On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi All,

One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about it and 
it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think they are off 
line for a bit as they haven't replied.

Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot can be 
freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon




--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[stankd...@stankdawg.com]

Lol @ woke. You don’t know me very well. 

If it helps your examples are mostly acceptable to me. 

I would argue against some of them on the grounds that they are not hacking, 
technology, or culture related. Not even loosely. 

I defended allowing the covid alternative treatment episodes last year when the 
“woke” mob were trying to censor that one.  And I suggested a follow up show as 
counterpoints exactly as you suggested. 

So yeah. I still say nothing illegal and stand by that. I can’t even think of 
an example but we will bring it up if we see it. It will be a transparent 
decision just like ken is doing now. 

-DB

Sent from my iPhone.

> On Mar 23, 2022, at 3:25 PM, Jannik Pruitt  wrote:
> 
> 
>  "hateful or illegal activity"
> Wow that is a bit woke.  Or the Uk version of no god and socialist.
> 
> One mans hate is other one's joy.
> 
> illegal has many faces to.  If you live in a dry county would a show about 
> homemade beer be illegal?
> 
> If you think the first black woman nominated to the supreme court is or is 
> not qualified is that hate speech?  What about transgender athletes?  Pro or 
> con hate speech.  KDE Vs xfce?  Is that that hate speech?  What about Covid 
> or abortion it all fits under hateful.
> 
> It is too wide a net for Ken and Dave to censor far better to make a follow 
> up show if you disagree.
> 
> jwp
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2022, 07:47 stankd...@stankdawg.com, 
>>  wrote:
>> Replying to the original but read all the responses. 
>> 
>> I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better communication 
>> with the contributor and the community. He has that much respect to be open 
>> about it. Don’t overthink it.  Don’t jump to conclusions on any reasons 
>> until the communication is complete. You may never even find out. 
>> 
>> Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and are 
>> against censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or web sites we must 
>> have boundaries. Again I have no idea if there are content issues with this 
>> show that cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry 
>> censorship if I or the admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that 
>> promotes hateful or illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is safety 
>> and responsibility.  You must trust the system and again I trust Ken 
>> completely.  
>> 
>> Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive 
>> intent of the people who have been successfully running this show for 
>> several years. I am certain that they have earned that respect. 
>> 
>> -StankDawg
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone.
>> 
>> > On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
>> > 
>> > Hi All,
>> > 
>> > One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about 
>> > it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think 
>> > they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.
>> > 
>> > Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot 
>> > can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > Regards,
>> > 
>> > Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
>> > https://kenfallon.com
>> > https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
>> > 
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > Hpr mailing list
>> > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
>> > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Hpr mailing list
>> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
>> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

I have opened a different thread about how best to audit the work of the 
Janitors.


Moving the show is indeed becoming an issue and needs to be done this 
weekend. The initial suggestion was to move it to hpr3576 on 2022-04-18.


I suggest some of the people that objected to the move, or those who 
have concerns about the process contact me directly. I can walk them 
through the chain of events and they can report back to the list:


1. If the believe that the decisions taken by the Janitors (me in this
   case) were in good faith.
2. If they agree with the course of action suggested.

They would of course be bound to the same rules of confidentiality that 
I am.


Volunteers ?

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-03-23 21:15, Carl D Hamann wrote:

On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host 
about it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. 
I think they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.

>
> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current 
slot can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to 
reply.


Here's what I'm hearing so far:
1. Our current janitors are doing a good job, and we trust them to 
make decisions that are in the best interest of the podcast and the 
community.
2. Everyone, including the janitors, would prefer a clear, objective 
process that does not depend on that trust.
3. The current process is to reach out to the contributing host, after 
the show is posted to the `future` feed, if there are any potential 
issues with it.
5. If the contributing host cannot be reached, the mailing list is 
asked for permission to move the show temporarily, until the 
contributing host responds. The mailing list IS NOT asked to make a 
judgment on the "potential issue".
4. There is an open question about what constitutes a "potential 
issue" and whether the reach-out-to-host itself constitutes censorship 
or at least a chilling effect. (I feel discussing this is important 
but that answering the immediate question of temporarily moving the 
show is pressing and needs an answer.)


Given, that the janitors are following the current process, my answer 
is "yes, move the show".


As for the rest of us, feel free to continue debating whether that 
process needs altering 🙂 I think it's a healthy discussion that 
benefits the community, and ideally, allows the janitors to eventually 
hand over their duties and retire (should they so wish), secure in the 
knowledge that the process will safeguard both the podcast and the 
community for decades to come.


Sincerest appreciation,
- Laindir

___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Carl D Hamann]

On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about
it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think
they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.
>
> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot
can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.

Here's what I'm hearing so far:
1. Our current janitors are doing a good job, and we trust them to make
decisions that are in the best interest of the podcast and the community.
2. Everyone, including the janitors, would prefer a clear, objective
process that does not depend on that trust.
3. The current process is to reach out to the contributing host, after the
show is posted to the `future` feed, if there are any potential issues with
it.
5. If the contributing host cannot be reached, the mailing list is asked
for permission to move the show temporarily, until the contributing host
responds. The mailing list IS NOT asked to make a judgment on the
"potential issue".
4. There is an open question about what constitutes a "potential issue" and
whether the reach-out-to-host itself constitutes censorship or at least a
chilling effect. (I feel discussing this is important but that answering
the immediate question of temporarily moving the show is pressing and needs
an answer.)

Given, that the janitors are following the current process, my answer is
"yes, move the show".

As for the rest of us, feel free to continue debating whether that process
needs altering 🙂 I think it's a healthy discussion that benefits the
community, and ideally, allows the janitors to eventually hand over their
duties and retire (should they so wish), secure in the knowledge that the
process will safeguard both the podcast and the community for decades to
come.

Sincerest appreciation,
- Laindir
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Jannik Pruitt via Hpr]

 "hateful or illegal activity"
Wow that is a bit woke.  Or the Uk version of no god and socialist.

One mans hate is other one's joy.

illegal has many faces to.  If you live in a dry county would a show about
homemade beer be illegal?

If you think the first black woman nominated to the supreme court is or is
not qualified is that hate speech?  What about transgender athletes?  Pro
or con hate speech.  KDE Vs xfce?  Is that that hate speech?  What about
Covid or abortion it all fits under hateful.

It is too wide a net for Ken and Dave to censor far better to make a follow
up show if you disagree.

jwp



On Wed, 23 Mar 2022, 07:47 stankd...@stankdawg.com, 
wrote:

> Replying to the original but read all the responses.
>
> I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better
> communication with the contributor and the community. He has that much
> respect to be open about it. Don’t overthink it.  Don’t jump to conclusions
> on any reasons until the communication is complete. You may never even find
> out.
>
> Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and are
> against censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or web sites we must
> have boundaries. Again I have no idea if there are content issues with this
> show that cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry
> censorship if I or the admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that
> promotes hateful or illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is
> safety and responsibility.  You must trust the system and again I trust Ken
> completely.
>
> Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive
> intent of the people who have been successfully running this show for
> several years. I am certain that they have earned that respect.
>
> -StankDawg
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
> > On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about
> it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think
> they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.
> >
> > Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot
> can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
> > https://kenfallon.com
> > https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Hpr mailing list
> > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>
>
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[stankd...@stankdawg.com]

Replying to the original but read all the responses. 

I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better communication 
with the contributor and the community. He has that much respect to be open 
about it. Don’t overthink it.  Don’t jump to conclusions on any reasons until 
the communication is complete. You may never even find out. 

Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and are against 
censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or web sites we must have 
boundaries. Again I have no idea if there are content issues with this show 
that cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry censorship if I 
or the admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that promotes hateful or 
illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is safety and responsibility.  
You must trust the system and again I trust Ken completely.  

Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive intent 
of the people who have been successfully running this show for several years. I 
am certain that they have earned that respect. 

-StankDawg

Sent from my iPhone.

> On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about it 
> and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think they are 
> off line for a bit as they haven't replied.
> 
> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot can 
> be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
> https://kenfallon.com
> https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
> 
> 
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

I think I understand the issue here, and correct me if I'm wrong.

The fear is that the janitors are contacting the hosts directly to have 
them self censor their shows.


As we have mentioned several times on the Community News, we assist 
hosts with their uploads. This also extends to protecting the hosts as 
much as possible. For example preventing leaking of the hosts location 
hpr3564 Removing EXIF data from an image by Dave Morriss 
.


Due to our policy where "We do not vet, edit, moderate or in any way 
censor any of the audio you submit, we trust you to do that. 
", 
issues often will only come to light after we post the show to the 
future feed. An example would be 10 minutes of silence in the middle of 
the show, but it can often be violation of some policy or other.


When we notice or are informed of issues, we will take up contact with 
the host to see what they wish to do. Sometimes the hosts will supply us 
with a new version, or they may ask us to release the slot so they can 
upload the show later. And sometimes they do not agree with us, and when 
that happens we inform them that we need to bring the issue to the 
Mailing list. Eg [Hpr] Should we reject a show with copyrighted fair use 
clips in it ? 



But as Rho`n rightly points out - how do the HPR community know this for 
certain ? This is a valid concern and should be addressed. Who watches 
the watch ?


Any thoughts or ideas ?

--

Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-03-22 16:25, Ken Fallon wrote:

Hi Rho`n,


In this situation, we have no information to make an informed decision.


Correct.

We have to trust the Janitors claim that there is a technical reason 
to do so. 
I reread the email thread and I cannot see anywhere that I suggested 
the nature of the issue was technical or otherwise. I want to make it 
very clear that I am deliberately not saying if it is a technical 
decision or a content decision.


The vote is basically a confirmation that we trust the janitor's 
judgement on what the technical reason is. 


No it's allowing time for the host to get back to us.

If we are taking a hands off approach to all issues to avoid any 
taint of censorship, then we should not postpone any shows unless the 
host has agreed.


The whole point is that I cannot get in contact with the host. The 
last communication from them said that they would host it somewhere 
else so people can choose to listen if they like, and that they would 
mention it on their next HPR show. My last communication to them was 
to ask if they will be uploading a new version of the show.


If *we* take the decision to allow the show to be released to the main 
feed, and the host did not want it posted, then *they* have to live 
with the consequences of our decision. That is not fair.



Following the above argument, I don't consent to move the show.

Please don't take this as a lack of trust in the Janitors. 


Incorrect. Do not trust them.

As my first response puts much trust in them. I can see Ken's worry 
of just moving things without a notice, and I think moving it with a 
post to the mailing list that it is being moved for technical reasons 
would give: one, a chance for someone to object, and two, provide an 
audit trail if an issue of censorship does come up.


I always cc the Admin mail list on these communications so there is an 
audit trail. I would like more people to join the list but due to the 
volume of mails people tend to unsubscribe after a time. "Anyone who 
has shown a long term dedication to the project and is trusted by the 
community, can become an admin". 



Say every other post by Rho`n suddenly gets postponed ;) I feel at 
this point a vote doesn't provide much more protection from a 
censorship claim than just a post to the mailing list that it is 
going to happen.


Would Rho`n not send an email to the mail list and ask why their shows 
get postponed ? As I did when HPR started to podfade. Would word not 
leak out that there was a question of censorship on HPR ? Surely it 
would appear on twitter, mastodon, irc, matrix, not to mention other 
Podcasts ? Like it did when Klaatu mentioned on GWO that I asked him 
to replace a scary image on his avatar.


In this case you would hear from the host themselves that they tried 
to post the show to HPR but decided to move it elsewhere.


Regards,

Ken.



___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Kevin O'Brien]

Agreed.


-- 
Kevin B. O'Brien
zwil...@zwilnik.com
http://google.me/+kevinobrien
http://www.google.com/profiles/Ahuka5656
http://about.me/zwilnik

“People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be
afraid of their people.” - Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:11 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for your feedback, however we do not wish to move the shows around 
> without the hosts permission for any reason. The queue is there to prevent 
> allegations of favoritism and is succeeding in it's task.
>
> It is also a dangerous path to go down allowing the Janitors to deem a show 
> inappropriate to be scheduled for any reason. Even a valid technical reason 
> could be considers censorship. Then you get to defining "rules" for valid 
> technical reasons, and as we saw with the "scheduling rules" - they simply do 
> not work.
>
> So the Janitors will move shows on host permission as normal, but will always 
> ask the mail list where the host cannot or will not move their show.
>
> We will always try to provide an explanation, as we did in the past for 
> special events like protests (hpr0903 :: SOPA Protest), or anniversaries. 
> That is not possible at this stage as the host has yet to decide what they 
> wish to do.
>
> However it's also not desirable to keep postponing the shows release into the 
> main feed indefinitely.
>
> My proposal is that we schedule the show in question for Mon 2022-04-18: 
> hpr3576, two weeks after the next Community News. This will give the host 
> ample time to respond, and if they don't then we can discuss the issues in 
> question with the wider community on HPR Community News for March 2022.
>
> So do I have the consent to move the show or not ?
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
> https://kenfallon.com
> https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
>
>
> On 2022-03-22 00:27, Brian Navarette wrote:
>
> I agree with Dave Lee
>
> Brian-in-ohio
>
> On 3/21/22 09:38, Roan Horning wrote:
>
> I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.
>
> --Roan
>
> On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:
>
> I think this is _the _key point here.  I'm more than happy for the HPR Admins 
> to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a show to be scheduled 
> for technical reasons - although not for content - without needing to seek 
> permission first.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Jannik Pruitt via Hpr]

Hey Ken

Not knowing the topic makes it hard for me.
Ken I love you man but your thoughts are liberal and free.  In my
birthplace this would be viewed as socialist or communist which are against
God and country.

Having lived in Germany I understand there are views other than that of my
place of birth.

I suggest that unless it fails the newspaper test or it is something you
would not want to tell your grandmother about it should be ok.  Maybe do a
double show day.

Censorship in our group unless the above happens is not ok and puts you Ken
and Dave in a tough spot.

JWP


On Tue, 22 Mar 2022, 16:27 Ken Fallon,  wrote:

> Hi Rho`n,
>
> In this situation, we have no information to make an informed decision.
>
> Correct.
>
> We have to trust the Janitors claim that there is a technical reason to do
> so.
>
> I reread the email thread and I cannot see anywhere that I suggested the
> nature of the issue was technical or otherwise. I want to make it very
> clear that I am deliberately not saying if it is a technical decision or a
> content decision.
>
> The vote is basically a confirmation that we trust the janitor's judgement
> on what the technical reason is.
>
> No it's allowing time for the host to get back to us.
>
> If we are taking a hands off approach to all issues to avoid any taint of
> censorship, then we should not postpone any shows unless the host has
> agreed.
>
> The whole point is that I cannot get in contact with the host. The last
> communication from them said that they would host it somewhere else so
> people can choose to listen if they like, and that they would mention it on
> their next HPR show. My last communication to them was to ask if they will
> be uploading a new version of the show.
>
> If *we* take the decision to allow the show to be released to the main
> feed, and the host did not want it posted, then *they* have to live with
> the consequences of our decision. That is not fair.
>
> Following the above argument, I don't consent to move the show.
>
> Please don't take this as a lack of trust in the Janitors.
>
> Incorrect. Do not trust them.
>
> As my first response puts much trust in them. I can see Ken's worry of
> just moving things without a notice, and I think moving it with a post to
> the mailing list that it is being moved for technical reasons would give:
> one, a chance for someone to object, and two, provide an audit trail if an
> issue of censorship does come up.
>
> I always cc the Admin mail list on these communications so there is an
> audit trail. I would like more people to join the list but due to the
> volume of mails people tend to unsubscribe after a time. "Anyone who has
> shown a long term dedication to the project and is trusted by the
> community, can become an admin".
> 
>
> Say every other post by Rho`n suddenly gets postponed ;) I feel at this
> point a vote doesn't provide much more protection from a censorship claim
> than just a post to the mailing list that it is going to happen.
>
> Would Rho`n not send an email to the mail list and ask why their shows get
> postponed ? As I did when HPR started to podfade. Would word not leak out
> that there was a question of censorship on HPR ? Surely it would appear on
> twitter, mastodon, irc, matrix, not to mention other Podcasts ? Like it did
> when Klaatu mentioned on GWO that I asked him to replace a scary image on
> his avatar.
>
> In this case you would hear from the host themselves that they tried to
> post the show to HPR but decided to move it elsewhere.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ken.
>
>
>
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Rho`n,


In this situation, we have no information to make an informed decision.


Correct.

We have to trust the Janitors claim that there is a technical reason 
to do so. 
I reread the email thread and I cannot see anywhere that I suggested the 
nature of the issue was technical or otherwise. I want to make it very 
clear that I am deliberately not saying if it is a technical decision or 
a content decision.


The vote is basically a confirmation that we trust the janitor's 
judgement on what the technical reason is. 


No it's allowing time for the host to get back to us.

If we are taking a hands off approach to all issues to avoid any taint 
of censorship, then we should not postpone any shows unless the host 
has agreed.


The whole point is that I cannot get in contact with the host. The last 
communication from them said that they would host it somewhere else so 
people can choose to listen if they like, and that they would mention it 
on their next HPR show. My last communication to them was to ask if they 
will be uploading a new version of the show.


If *we* take the decision to allow the show to be released to the main 
feed, and the host did not want it posted, then *they* have to live with 
the consequences of our decision. That is not fair.



Following the above argument, I don't consent to move the show.

Please don't take this as a lack of trust in the Janitors. 


Incorrect. Do not trust them.

As my first response puts much trust in them. I can see Ken's worry of 
just moving things without a notice, and I think moving it with a post 
to the mailing list that it is being moved for technical reasons would 
give: one, a chance for someone to object, and two, provide an audit 
trail if an issue of censorship does come up.


I always cc the Admin mail list on these communications so there is an 
audit trail. I would like more people to join the list but due to the 
volume of mails people tend to unsubscribe after a time. "Anyone who has 
shown a long term dedication to the project and is trusted by the 
community, can become an admin". 



Say every other post by Rho`n suddenly gets postponed ;) I feel at 
this point a vote doesn't provide much more protection from a 
censorship claim than just a post to the mailing list that it is going 
to happen.


Would Rho`n not send an email to the mail list and ask why their shows 
get postponed ? As I did when HPR started to podfade. Would word not 
leak out that there was a question of censorship on HPR ? Surely it 
would appear on twitter, mastodon, irc, matrix, not to mention other 
Podcasts ? Like it did when Klaatu mentioned on GWO that I asked him to 
replace a scary image on his avatar.


In this case you would hear from the host themselves that they tried to 
post the show to HPR but decided to move it elsewhere.


Regards,

Ken.


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Roan Horning]

On 3/21/22 07:03, Ken Fallon wrote:

t the moment it is not clear if they have officially posted the show or not, so 
it is not appropriate to discuss the issue at this point. The host remains the 
copyright holder of the content and needs to be given the opportunity to decide 
what they wish to do

On 3/22/22 05:11, Ken Fallon wrote:

It is also a dangerous path to go down allowing the Janitors to deem a show inappropriate to be 
scheduled for any reason. Even a valid technical reason could be considers censorship. Then you get 
to defining "rules" for valid technical reasons, and as we saw with the "scheduling 
rules" - they simply do not work.


In this situation, we have no information to make an informed decision. We have 
to trust the Janitors claim that there is a technical reason to do so. The vote 
is basically a confirmation that we trust the janitor's judgement on what the 
technical reason is. If we are taking a hands off approach to all issues to 
avoid any taint of censorship, then we should not postpone any shows unless the 
host has agreed.

Following the above argument, I don't consent to move the show.

Please don't take this as a lack of trust in the Janitors. As my first response 
puts much trust in them. I can see Ken's worry of just moving things without a 
notice, and I think moving it with a post to the mailing list that it is being 
moved for technical reasons would give: one, a chance for someone to object, 
and two, provide an audit trail if an issue of censorship does come up. Say 
every other post by Rho`n suddenly gets postponed ;) I feel at this point a 
vote doesn't provide much more protection from a censorship claim than just a 
post to the mailing list that it is going to happen.

--Roan

___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[x1101]

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 10:28:13 +0100
Daniel Persson  wrote:
I also agree.


> Dito
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 10:24 AM Nigel Verity
>  wrote:
>
> > I agree with Andrew on all points, including his PS.
> >
> > Beeza
> >
> > 22 Mar 2022 09:20:13 Andrew Conway :
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > I agree with your reasoning about asking for permission and as it
> > is a rare event it won't consume too much of your or our time.
> >
> > And yes, you have my approval in this instance.
> >
> > Andrew
> > PS As you are inclined to reject power I think you should be made
> > president or prime minister of somewhere.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 22 Mar 2022, 09:13 Ken Fallon,  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your feedback, however we do not wish to move the shows
> >> around without the hosts permission for any reason. The queue is
> >> there to prevent allegations of favoritism and is succeeding in
> >> it's task.
> >>
> >> It is also a dangerous path to go down allowing the Janitors to
> >> deem a show inappropriate to be scheduled for any reason. Even a
> >> valid technical reason could be considers censorship. Then you get
> >> to defining "rules" for valid technical reasons, and as we saw
> >> with the "scheduling rules" - they simply do not work.
> >>
> >> So the Janitors will move shows on host permission as normal, but
> >> will always ask the mail list where the host cannot or will not
> >> move their show.
> >>
> >> We will always try to provide an explanation, as we did in the
> >> past for special events like protests (hpr0903 :: SOPA Protest
> >> ),
> >> or anniversaries. That is not possible at this stage as the host
> >> has yet to decide what they wish to do.
> >>
> >> However it's also not desirable to keep postponing the shows
> >> release into the main feed indefinitely.
> >>
> >> My proposal is that we schedule the show in question for Mon
> >> 2022-04-18: hpr3576, two weeks after the next Community News. This
> >> will give the host ample time to respond, and if they don't then
> >> we can discuss the issues in question with the wider community on
> >> HPR Community News for March 2022.
> >>
> >> So do I have the consent to move the show or not ?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)https://kenfallon.com
> >> https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2022-03-22 00:27, Brian Navarette wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree with Dave Lee
> >>
> >> Brian-in-ohio
> >>
> >> On 3/21/22 09:38, Roan Horning wrote:
> >>
> >> I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.
> >>
> >> --Roan
> >>
> >> On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:
> >>
> >> I think this is _the _key point here.  I'm more than happy for the
> >> HPR Admins to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for
> >> a show to be scheduled for technical reasons - although not for
> >> content - without needing to seek permission first.
> >>
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Hpr mailing list
> >> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> >> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
> >> 
> >>
> > ___
> > Hpr mailing list
> > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
> >
>


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_ha

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Daniel Persson]

Dito

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 10:24 AM Nigel Verity 
wrote:

> I agree with Andrew on all points, including his PS.
>
> Beeza
>
> 22 Mar 2022 09:20:13 Andrew Conway :
>
> Ken
>
> I agree with your reasoning about asking for permission and as it is a
> rare event it won't consume too much of your or our time.
>
> And yes, you have my approval in this instance.
>
> Andrew
> PS As you are inclined to reject power I think you should be made
> president or prime minister of somewhere.
>
>
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022, 09:13 Ken Fallon,  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Thanks for your feedback, however we do not wish to move the shows around
>> without the hosts permission for any reason. The queue is there to prevent
>> allegations of favoritism and is succeeding in it's task.
>>
>> It is also a dangerous path to go down allowing the Janitors to deem a
>> show inappropriate to be scheduled for any reason. Even a valid technical
>> reason could be considers censorship. Then you get to defining "rules" for
>> valid technical reasons, and as we saw with the "scheduling rules" - they
>> simply do not work.
>>
>> So the Janitors will move shows on host permission as normal, but will
>> always ask the mail list where the host cannot or will not move their show.
>>
>> We will always try to provide an explanation, as we did in the past for
>> special events like protests (hpr0903 :: SOPA Protest
>> ),
>> or anniversaries. That is not possible at this stage as the host has yet to
>> decide what they wish to do.
>>
>> However it's also not desirable to keep postponing the shows release into
>> the main feed indefinitely.
>>
>> My proposal is that we schedule the show in question for Mon 2022-04-18:
>> hpr3576, two weeks after the next Community News. This will give the host
>> ample time to respond, and if they don't then we can discuss the issues in
>> question with the wider community on HPR Community News for March 2022.
>>
>> So do I have the consent to move the show or not ?
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)https://kenfallon.com 
>> https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
>>  
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 2022-03-22 00:27, Brian Navarette wrote:
>>
>> I agree with Dave Lee
>>
>> Brian-in-ohio
>>
>> On 3/21/22 09:38, Roan Horning wrote:
>>
>> I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.
>>
>> --Roan
>>
>> On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:
>>
>> I think this is _the _key point here.  I'm more than happy for the HPR
>> Admins to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a show to be
>> scheduled for technical reasons - although not for content - without
>> needing to seek permission first.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Hpr mailing list
>> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
>> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>> 
>>
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Nigel Verity]

I agree with Andrew on all points, including his PS.

Beeza

22 Mar 2022 09:20:13 Andrew Conway :

> Ken
> 
> I agree with your reasoning about asking for permission and as it is a rare 
> event it won't consume too much of your or our time.
> 
> And yes, you have my approval in this instance.
> 
> Andrew
> PS As you are inclined to reject power I think you should be made president 
> or prime minister of somewhere.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022, 09:13 Ken Fallon,  wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Thanks for your feedback, however we do not wish to move the shows around 
>> without the hosts permission for any reason. The queue is there to prevent 
>> allegations of favoritism and is succeeding in it's task.
>> 
>> It is also a dangerous path to go down allowing the Janitors to deem a show 
>> inappropriate to be scheduled for any reason. Even a valid technical reason 
>> could be considers censorship. Then you get to defining "rules" for valid 
>> technical reasons, and as we saw with the "scheduling rules" - they simply 
>> do not work.
>> 
>> So the Janitors will move shows on host permission as normal, but will 
>> always ask the mail list where the host cannot or will not move their show.
>> 
>> We will always try to provide an explanation, as we did in the past for 
>> special events like protests (hpr0903 :: SOPA 
>> Protest[https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackerpublicradio.org%2Feps.php%3Fid%3D0903&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8e2ce443d193439ac65708da0be52a29%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C63783537613899%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=j4tO37ixRlluOv2SrTMFk0BWYVy0MnWh%2B%2BhEQo4K4Lw%3D&reserved=0]),
>>  or anniversaries. That is not possible at this stage as the host has yet to 
>> decide what they wish to do.
>> 
>> However it's also not desirable to keep postponing the shows release into 
>> the main feed indefinitely.
>> 
>> My proposal is that we schedule the show in question for Mon 2022-04-18: 
>> hpr3576, two weeks after the next Community News. This will give the host 
>> ample time to respond, and if they don't then we can discuss the issues in 
>> question with the wider community on HPR Community News for March 2022.
>> 
>> So do I have the consent to move the show or not ?
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
>> https://kenfallon.com[https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkenfallon.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8e2ce443d193439ac65708da0be52a29%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C63783537613899%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=NIfxBHwO%2FGNVfErvMExqsb6BRXlD5MEtAn4gBy25Rvg%3D&reserved=0]
>> https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon[https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackerpublicradio.org%2Fhosts%2Fken_fallon&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8e2ce443d193439ac65708da0be52a29%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C63783537613899%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=w4D9qtDotmilOiFz6W2r44DWxTg3Tzsu3XX4YCRXhHY%3D&reserved=0]
>> 
>> On 2022-03-22 00:27, Brian Navarette wrote:
>> I agree with Dave Lee
>> 
>> Brian-in-ohio
>> 
>> On 3/21/22 09:38, Roan Horning wrote:
>> I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.
>> 
>> --Roan
>> 
>> On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:
>> I think this is _the _key point here.  I'm more than happy for the HPR 
>> Admins to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a show to be 
>> scheduled for technical reasons - although not for content - without needing 
>> to seek permission first.
>> 
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Hpr mailing list
>> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
>> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org[https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhackerpublicradio.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhpr_hackerpublicradio.org&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8e2ce443d193439ac65708da0be52a29%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C63783537613899%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=t3W5i6pCCKB%2Fw1cquNdQeWjFUhYXDJ8Q6EKX4uZrzkk%3D&reserved=0]
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Andrew Conway]

Ken

I agree with your reasoning about asking for permission and as it is a rare
event it won't consume too much of your or our time.

And yes, you have my approval in this instance.

Andrew
PS As you are inclined to reject power I think you should be made president
or prime minister of somewhere.


On Tue, 22 Mar 2022, 09:13 Ken Fallon,  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for your feedback, however we do not wish to move the shows around
> without the hosts permission for any reason. The queue is there to prevent
> allegations of favoritism and is succeeding in it's task.
>
> It is also a dangerous path to go down allowing the Janitors to deem a
> show inappropriate to be scheduled for any reason. Even a valid technical
> reason could be considers censorship. Then you get to defining "rules" for
> valid technical reasons, and as we saw with the "scheduling rules" - they
> simply do not work.
>
> So the Janitors will move shows on host permission as normal, but will
> always ask the mail list where the host cannot or will not move their show.
>
> We will always try to provide an explanation, as we did in the past for
> special events like protests (hpr0903 :: SOPA Protest
> ), or anniversaries. That
> is not possible at this stage as the host has yet to decide what they wish
> to do.
>
> However it's also not desirable to keep postponing the shows release into
> the main feed indefinitely.
>
> My proposal is that we schedule the show in question for Mon 2022-04-18:
> hpr3576, two weeks after the next Community News. This will give the host
> ample time to respond, and if they don't then we can discuss the issues in
> question with the wider community on HPR Community News for March 2022.
>
> So do I have the consent to move the show or not ?
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Ken Fallon 
> (PA7KEN,G5KEN)https://kenfallon.comhttps://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
>
>
> On 2022-03-22 00:27, Brian Navarette wrote:
>
> I agree with Dave Lee
>
> Brian-in-ohio
>
> On 3/21/22 09:38, Roan Horning wrote:
>
> I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.
>
> --Roan
>
> On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:
>
> I think this is _the _key point here.  I'm more than happy for the HPR
> Admins to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a show to be
> scheduled for technical reasons - although not for content - without
> needing to seek permission first.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

Thanks for your feedback, however we do not wish to move the shows 
around without the hosts permission for any reason. The queue is there 
to prevent allegations of favoritism and is succeeding in it's task.


It is also a dangerous path to go down allowing the Janitors to deem a 
show inappropriate to be scheduled for any reason. Even a valid 
technical reason could be considers censorship. Then you get to defining 
"rules" for valid technical reasons, and as we saw with the "scheduling 
rules" - they simply do not work.


So the Janitors will move shows on host permission as normal, but will 
always ask the mail list where the host cannot or will not move their show.


We will always try to provide an explanation, as we did in the past for 
special events like protests (hpr0903 :: SOPA Protest 
), or anniversaries. That 
is not possible at this stage as the host has yet to decide what they 
wish to do.


However it's also not desirable to keep postponing the shows release 
into the main feed indefinitely.


My proposal is that we schedule the show in question for Mon 2022-04-18: 
hpr3576, two weeks after the next Community News. This will give the 
host ample time to respond, and if they don't then we can discuss the 
issues in question with the wider community on HPR Community News for 
March 2022.


So do I have the consent to move the show or not ?

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-03-22 00:27, Brian Navarette wrote:

I agree with Dave Lee

Brian-in-ohio

On 3/21/22 09:38, Roan Horning wrote:

I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.

--Roan

On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:
I think this is _the _key point here. I'm more than happy for the 
HPR Admins to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a 
show to be scheduled for technical reasons - although not for 
content - without needing to seek permission first.



Dave



___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Brian Navarette]

I agree with Dave Lee

Brian-in-ohio

On 3/21/22 09:38, Roan Horning wrote:

I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.

--Roan

On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:
I think this is _the _key point here.  I'm more than happy for the 
HPR Admins to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a 
show to be scheduled for technical reasons - although not for content 
- without needing to seek permission first.



Dave



___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[x1101]

Ken - Your analysis here is spot on. If you feel that there's a need to
defer the posting of a show to clear up questions that the HPR Admin
team have, but are having issues contacting the host, that's totally
reasonable.

Given the ongoing community discussions surrounding content policy, I
think a lot of people would like to get more info on the situation
after its been resolved (assuming we have the hosts permission to
discuss it)

/Lyle

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 12:03:56 +0100
Ken Fallon  wrote:

> At the moment it is not clear if they have officially posted the show
> or not, so it is not appropriate to discuss the issue at this point.
> The host remains the copyright holder of the content and needs to be
> given the opportunity to decide what they wish to do.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ken.
>
> On 2022-03-21 11:13, Nigel Verity wrote:
> > Is it a technical issue or one of content? If the latter then it
> > might have connotations for the community to discuss.
> >
> > Beeza
> >
> > 21 Mar 2022 08:45:45 Andrew Conway :
> >
> > Fine by me.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2022, 08:43 Ken Fallon,  wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to
> > the host about
> > it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace
> > it. I think
> > they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.
> >
> > Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the
> > current slot
> > can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host
> > to reply.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
> > https://kenfallon.com
> > 
> > 
> >
> > https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
> > 
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Hpr mailing list
> > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> > 
> > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
> > 
> > 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Hpr mailing list
> > Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> > http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
> >
> >
>


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Roan Horning]

I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.

--Roan

On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:

I think this is _the _key point here.  I'm more than happy for the HPR Admins 
to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a show to be scheduled 
for technical reasons - although not for content - without needing to seek 
permission first.


Dave



___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Dave Lee (HPR)]

I think this is the key point here.  I'm more than happy for the HPR Admins to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a show to be scheduled for technical reasons - although not for content - without needing to seek permission first.

Dave


 via Newton Mail On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 11:43am, Todd  wrote:I have no problem with the HPR Admins moving showsOn Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 3:43 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:Hi All,

One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about 
it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think 
they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.

Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot 
can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.

-- 
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org


___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Todd]

I have no problem with the HPR Admins moving shows


On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 3:43 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about
> it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think
> they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.
>
> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot
> can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
> https://kenfallon.com
> https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
>
>
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

At the moment it is not clear if they have officially posted the show or 
not, so it is not appropriate to discuss the issue at this point. The 
host remains the copyright holder of the content and needs to be given 
the opportunity to decide what they wish to do.


Regards,

Ken.

On 2022-03-21 11:13, Nigel Verity wrote:
Is it a technical issue or one of content? If the latter then it might 
have connotations for the community to discuss.


Beeza

21 Mar 2022 08:45:45 Andrew Conway :

Fine by me.

Andrew

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022, 08:43 Ken Fallon,  wrote:

Hi All,

One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the
host about
it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace
it. I think
they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.

Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the
current slot
can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host
to reply.

-- 
Regards,


Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com



https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon





___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org




___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org




--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Nigel Verity]

Is it a technical issue or one of content? If the latter then it might have 
connotations for the community to discuss.

Beeza

21 Mar 2022 08:45:45 Andrew Conway :

> Fine by me.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022, 08:43 Ken Fallon,  wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about
>> it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think
>> they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.
>> 
>> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot
>> can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
>> https://kenfallon.com[https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkenfallon.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce257d458e5ab48a42a5208da0b172f17%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637834491454698318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Ug7TFomzQxLWenHjfLSUlyu6QjpjLz1Rer400%2FNCzC0%3D&reserved=0]
>> https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon[https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackerpublicradio.org%2Fhosts%2Fken_fallon&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce257d458e5ab48a42a5208da0b172f17%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637834491454698318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Zw1acbgqEIvS6cCS2PjlNjFB6fjBQDxD%2FmUuD8tnUKg%3D&reserved=0]
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Hpr mailing list
>> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
>> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org[https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhackerpublicradio.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fhpr_hackerpublicradio.org&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce257d458e5ab48a42a5208da0b172f17%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637834491454698318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=oAfRruJlCCfO379fg%2FCV6Se304fXfCnyOIr5hPfB9T0%3D&reserved=0]
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org

Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Andrew Conway]

Fine by me.

Andrew

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022, 08:43 Ken Fallon,  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about
> it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think
> they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.
>
> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot
> can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
> https://kenfallon.com
> https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
>
>
> ___
> Hpr mailing list
> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
> http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
>
___
Hpr mailing list
Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org