Re: How old are you?

[Jimenez Coloma, Jesus]

40 



- Jesús Jiménez Coloma 


-Mensaje original-
De: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre de 
Shaffer, Keith C WDC31
Enviado el: viernes, 03 de agosto de 2007 1:53
Para: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Asunto: Re: How old are you?

26

- keith



-Original Message-
From:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Steve Samson
Sent:   Thu 08/02/2007 7:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Cc: 
Subject:Re: How old are you?

Gotcha beat. I'm 70.

Steve Samson

Steve Comstock wrote:
> Stephen Wolf wrote:
>> I turned 61 this year (same as Gorge W. and William J.).  DO I hear 62?
>>
> 
> Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on the list, 
> can I?
> 
>

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Re: How old are you?

[legolas wood]

Hi all
I am 26, but I am a learner, am I counted?
I voted :D


Shaffer, Keith C WDC31 wrote:

26

- keith



-Original Message-
From:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Steve Samson
Sent:   Thu 08/02/2007 7:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Cc: 
Subject:Re: How old are you?

Gotcha beat. I'm 70.

Steve Samson

Steve Comstock wrote:
  

Stephen Wolf wrote:


I turned 61 this year (same as Gorge W. and William J.).  DO I hear 62?

  

Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on
the list, can I?






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Re: Anybody have an IPCS clist to disassemble?

[Edward Jaffe]

Binyamin Dissen wrote:

Looks like 1.8. Thanks.
  


Works nicely too!

LIST 081A8C14. ASID(X'0060') LENGTH(X'1000') INSTRUCTION
ASID(X'0060') ADDRESS(081A8C14.) KEY(00)
081A8C14 | D203 E000 A01C | MVC   X'0'(X'4',R14),X'1C'(R10)
081A8C1A | 90FD E004  | STM   R15,R13,X'4'(R14)
081A8C1E | 58E0 A01C  | L R14,X'1C'(,R10)
081A8C22 | E803 B490 B247 | MVCIN X'490'(X'4',R11),X'247'(R11)
081A8C28 | 5810 B00C  | L R1,X'C'(,R11)
081A8C2C | BFEF 1440  | ICM   R14,X'F',X'440'(R1)
081A8C30 | A784 0046  | BRC   X'8',*+X'8C'
081A8C34 | D503 E000 B490 | CLC   X'0'(X'4',R14),X'490'(R11)
081A8C3A | A784 0007  | BRC   X'8',*+X'E'
081A8C3E | D703 1440 1440 | XCX'440'(X'4',R1),X'440'(R1)
081A8C44 | A7F4 003C  | BRC   X'F',*+X'78'
081A8C48 | 50A0 E040  | STR10,X'40'(,R14)
081A8C4C | 9500 E004  | CLI   X'4'(R14),X'00'
.
.
.

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Re: Anybody have an IPCS clist to disassemble?

[Bruce Hewson]

Hi Binyamin,

You could always cut/paste the hex into an empty sport of memory and use 
TASID...

Regards
Bruce

TUTORIAL -  Storage View Facility  -- 
TUTORIAL  

  The Storage View Facility allows you to view and update storage on
  your system.  You can view storage in one of three formats.   

o Hexadecimal dump format shows the hexadecimal and EBCDIC  
  representations side by side.  Storage displayed in HIGH INTENSITY can
  be updated in the hexadecimal area.  LOW INTENSITY means read-
only.   

  You can also display the storage pointed to by storage by placing 
  an S or a B next to the address.  S uses the entire word, and B uses  
  only the low order 24 bits as an address.  You can also place the 
  cursor on an address and press Enter to go to that address.   

o Disassembly format shows a non-vector 370/XA level disassembly of 
the 
  storage.

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[Bruce Hewson]

Hello Willie,

If the dataset was SMS managed then you can use SMF Type 42 records.

I has SAS/MXG so I use this code to access SMF type 14,15,17,18, and 64.

//*  SMF 1415 - Non-VSAM Open/Close records. 
//*  SMF 1718 - Non-VSAM Scratch/Rename records. 
//*  SMF 64   - VSAM Component or Cluster Status 

options ls=160 ;  
  
MACRO STOPOVER MISSOVER % 
  
  MACRO _DSNLIST  
 'DATASET.NAME.ONE'
 'DATASET.NAME.TWO'
% 
  
  
  
%LET MACKEEP=%QUOTE(  
  MACRO _LTY64X  _NULL_ % 
  MACRO _ETY64X % 
  MACRO _VAR1415  
dsnresult (   
KEEP=DSNAME JOB SYSTEM OPENTIME   
PROGRAM DDNAME OPEN   
ACBIN ACBOUT SITUATN  
  )   
% 
  MACRO _ETY1415  
 IF  DSNAME  IN (_DSNLIST)
THEN  OUTPUT work.dsnresult ; 
% 
  MACRO _ETY1718  
 OPENTIME = READTIME; 
 IF  DSNAME  IN (_DSNLIST)
THEN  OUTPUT work.dsnresult ; 
% 
  MACRO _ETY64
 DSNAME = ENTRNAME;   
 IF  DSNAME  IN (_DSNLIST)
THEN  OUTPUT work.dsnresult ; 
% 
  MACRO _ETY64X ; 
% 
  );  
  
%include sourclib(vmac1415,vmac1718,vmac64);  
%include sourclib(vmacsmf,imackeep);  
  
DATA  
_VAR1415  
_VAR1718  
_VAR64
_SMF  
_CDE1415  
_CDE1718  
_CDE64
  
proc sort data=work.dsnresult ;   
  by opentime   ;  
   
   
options linesize=160 nocaps;   
   
proc print  uniform noobs split='*' ;  
var dsname 
job
system 
opentime   
program
ddname 
open   
acbin  
acbout 
situatn ;  
   
title 'Dataset access report'; 
   

Regards
Bruce Hewson

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Re: IBM's Project Big Green Spurs Global Shift to Linux on Mainframe

[Timothy Sipples]

Eric Chevalier writes:
>Your example of Company XYZ, deciding to replace 100 Windows/Unix
>servers with z/VM and Linux, implies that the firm is purchasing its
>*first* System z box. After the server migration is completed, when
>XYZ decides they need that high-reliability database server, I suspect
>they will likely look first at continuing to use Linux as their
>platform of choice. Oracle and DB2 are both available for that
>platform (and are marketed as high-reliability database engines), as
>well as MySQL and PostgreSQL. And since the firm's IT skill base is
>probably very deep in the Linux/*nix culture, building the database
>server on Linux would probably be a quicker and less costly approach
>than bringing in a completely new platform (z/OS).

Perhaps, but I often deal in probabilities, as here.  To continue the
narrative, it's easier to bring z/OS in the door if the iron is already on
the floor.  (It's only a CP activation and LPAR definition away.)  And, for
example, both Oracle and DB2 on Linux on z, while competent products
certainly, are no DB2 for z/OS.  The workloads they can run well just
aren't the same.

Not that getting the iron in the door is much of a problem either.  IBM
recently announced a new "fast start" service offering.  IBM can deliver a
System z9 to a new customer and get it up-and-running on-site with DB2 for
z/OS within an 8 hour business day.  After that, IBM will provide training
and education to the new administrators.

In my part of the world we have customers that are running 10 hours of
batch (and climbing) during 8 hour windows. :-)  Many of them have figured
out that only a z/OS mainframe can neatly and efficiently solve this
urgent, costly business problem.

Which is not to say that Linux isn't wonderful, especially on the
mainframe.  It is wonderful.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Bruce Hewson]

Hello Lizette,

We were quite happy with 2 datacenters about 50 Km apart.

But then 911 happened.   and SOX. etc...

so now the DR center has to be in a different country, about 3 hours flying 
time away. Something about sovereign risk.

This new direction has caused many rethinks in how our DR is done.

Regards
Bruce Hewson

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IBMLink "Official" VM ServiceLink Availability Notice

[Edward Jaffe]

The following notice now appears when using 3270 IBMLink

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
* * *
*   VM ServiceLink availability 
update. *
*   
*
*   Due to the stability issues with accessing IBMLink on the 
internet, *
*   the VM (green screen) version of ServiceLink will remain 
available  *
*   while IBM continues to review root causes and implement 
corrective  *
*   
options.*
*   
*
*   This logon message will display 3 
times.*
*   
*
*   ENTER To continue   PF06 To stop display of this 
message*
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
* * *


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Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: How old are you?

[Steve Comstock]

Lester, Bob wrote:

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How old are you?


Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on
the list, can I?




   Sure you can.  :-)

   You know what we need?  A place to store a picture of (willing)
esteemed members of this list.  It's always interesting to put a face
with a name.

   But I KNOW what you look like...  Not a day over x'3F'  :-)

Cheers!
<*BobL*>



http://www.trainersfriend.com/People/BioSteve.htm



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Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
   + How things work
   + Programming examples with realistic applications
   + Starter / skeleton code
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   + Useful utilities and subroutines
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Re: How old are you?

[Ernie Takeuchi]

We should kill this thread, not because anyone may be sensitive to age, but the 
subject is "old" and serves no value.

"Shaffer, Keith C WDC31" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news: <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>...

26

 

- keith

 

 

 

-Original Message-

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Steve Samson

Sent: Thu 08/02/2007 7:12 PM

To:   IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU

Cc:   

Subject:Re: How old are you?

 

Gotcha beat. I'm 70.

 

Steve Samson

 

Steve Comstock wrote:

> Stephen Wolf wrote:

>> I turned 61 this year (same as Gorge W. and William J.).  DO I hear 62?

>> 

> 

> Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on

> the list, can I?

> 

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Re: Linux - any specific DASD requirements?

[Shane Ginnane]

> My Z/OS support is going to set up a Linux LPAR and wants to know if
> there are any Linux specific DASD requirements.
> 
> Or should I just give him 10 3390-3s and tell him to have fun?
> 
> For my own edification, where might I find Linux doc?

Try http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/linux390/index.html
Also some good info under the general developerworks Linux link;
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux

Have a look at the "Open Source" link as well.

Should get you started.

I *really* hope you are doing this on z/ hardware.

Ten mod-3's will be heaps.

Shane ...

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Re: COBOL Group moves

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 08/01/2007
   at 05:31 AM, Steve Comstock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

>Seems a bit off topic for ibm-main,

Only if he's looking for a generic answer rather than one specific to,
e.g., z/OS compilers.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: How old are you?

[Shaffer, Keith C WDC31]

26

- keith



-Original Message-
From:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Steve Samson
Sent:   Thu 08/02/2007 7:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Cc: 
Subject:Re: How old are you?

Gotcha beat. I'm 70.

Steve Samson

Steve Comstock wrote:
> Stephen Wolf wrote:
>> I turned 61 this year (same as Gorge W. and William J.).  DO I hear 62?
>>
> 
> Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on
> the list, can I?
> 
>

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Re: DFHSM QUESTION : ORIGINIAL VOLUME VOLSER PRIOR TO ML2 MIGRATION

[Brian Westerman]

The user is the one that is wrong.  HSM is telling you where the dataset was
backed up from.  It is possible that the dataset was in a SG that contained
other volumes and that the dataset itself was moved under space management
and then replaced on next access to the volume that it was backed up from?

Brian

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Question on Fille Allocations

[GAVIN Darren * OPS EAS]

Listers,

 

In base JCL there is a parameter SUBSYS= for file allocations on a DD
statement.

 

Does anyone happen to know what the equivalent parameter is when using
TSO ALLOCATE command?  I've looked at the TSO Command Reference and
don't see anything like a Subsys parm. 

 

Darren


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Re: How old are you?

[Steve Samson]

Gotcha beat. I'm 70.

Steve Samson

Steve Comstock wrote:

Stephen Wolf wrote:

I turned 61 this year (same as Gorge W. and William J.).  DO I hear 62?



Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on
the list, can I?




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Re: How old are you?

[Gerhard Postpischil]

Steve Comstock wrote:

Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on
the list, can I?


You're not; I'm 64, but I'm certain there is someone older.


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

new e-mail address: gerhardp (at) charter (dot) net

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Re: How old are you?

[Lester, Bob]

>  -Original Message-
>  From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>  Behalf Of Steve Comstock
>  Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:14 PM
>  To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
>  Subject: Re: How old are you?
>  
>  
>  Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on
>  the list, can I?
>  

   Sure you can.  :-)

   You know what we need?  A place to store a picture of (willing)
esteemed members of this list.  It's always interesting to put a face
with a name.

   But I KNOW what you look like...  Not a day over x'3F'  :-)

Cheers!
<*BobL*>
   

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Re: How old are you?

[Shane]

On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 15:27 -0400, Richards.Bob wrote:

> Not funny, Steve, not funny! (Well, actually it is, because I am
> smiling, but.) :-)

> -Original Message-
> On Behalf Of Steven Conway
>
> Bob Richards (And I do not even look 56!) 
> 
> Nope, you don't.  Not any more. . . 

Generally I'm with Anthony regarding "polls", but this was worth a
chuckle ... 

Shane ...

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Re: ResourceLink Down ???

[Shane]

On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 13:25 -0500, Brian Peterson wrote:

> When I tried to logon to ResourceLink this afternoon, I receive the following 
> error message:
> HTTP 500 - Internal server error 
> Is it just me?

As suggested recently, might be a crappy sign-on/authentication server
somewhere in IBM.
Or where-ever they've outsourced it to - for "your convenience" (as
customers) no doubt.

I got bounced trying to sign in to something else (not IBMLink
fortunately) yesterday.

Shane ...

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Re: How old are you?

[Steve Comstock]

Stephen Wolf wrote:

I turned 61 this year (same as Gorge W. and William J.).  DO I hear 62?



Jeez! I turned 63 in March. I _can't_ be the oldest guy on
the list, can I?


--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
   + How things work
   + Programming examples with realistic applications
   + Starter / skeleton code
   + Complete working programs
   + Useful utilities and subroutines
   + Tips and techniques

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Re: Anybody have an IPCS clist to disassemble?

[Binyamin Dissen]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:32:07 -0400 Robert Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

:>Binyamin Dissen wrote on 2007-08-02 17:17:40:

:>> Anybody have an IPCS clist to disassemble?

:>Starting  with z/OS V1R7 that should not be needed.  IPCS added support for
:>an INSTRUCTION data type and companion support in the LIST subcommand to
:>format small blocks of instructions.

Looks like 1.8. Thanks.

--
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Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Doug Fuerst]

4 miles is essentially around the corner. I am curious as to the 
"hard facts" you are looking for? It is a business decision. And the 
new center will be subject to potential disasters as well. It is best 
to be geographically diverse. The second center I think should be in 
another part of the country. It was stated to put it in a rural, 
depressed area. That is fine, as long as there is sufficient 
infrastructure. Where does the power come from? Wholesaler and last 
mile. Comm facilities. Vendor coverage for computing gear and HVAC 
and UPS gear. It is not a quick, "hey whaddya think" question. It is 
alot of work. But by ANY measure, 4 miles is insane.


Doug

snip

-Original Message-
Lizette Koehler

>As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other...
Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question?

My issue with this problem is the "it depends" clause.  I know that
there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations.

However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current
configuration of 4 miles is badness.  How or what can I use  to show
that a larger distance is better.  That is why I was looking for papers
or some other documentation.  A regional outage, be it hurricans,
flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of
my equation to start with.  Management is not concerned about those.
Just the "why go farther?" question.

But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it
feels "right".  They want hard facts.

Any other concepts.

(And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far.  But I need something a
little more concrete.)

Lsnip


Doug Fuerst
Consultant
BK Associates
Brooklyn, NY
(718) 921-2620 (Office)
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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

[Mark Jacobs]

SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed if you expect DB2 to load its default
unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time

Mark Jacobs

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chase, John
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

Better late than never?

> From: Michael Babcock 
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:06:12 -0500 
> 
> If I remember correctly, you must have SYS1.SCUNIMG in the linklist
for 
> the dynamic to work.  

We don't, and it works (z/OS 1.7).

We'll learn more tomorrow, when we try the CICS sample web services
application (CICS TS 3.2).

-jc-

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[Paul Peplinski]

The only time I have seen an existing dataset deleted when JCL specified or 
defaulted to disposition new was when the job was being run under CA7 
(actually CA11 rerun manager) and it deletes existing datasets of that name to 
prevent "not cataloged 2" (even for normal runs).

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Re: Anybody have an IPCS clist to disassemble?

[Robert Wright]

Binyamin Dissen wrote on 2007-08-02 17:17:40:

> Anybody have an IPCS clist to disassemble?

Starting  with z/OS V1R7 that should not be needed.  IPCS added support for
an INSTRUCTION data type and companion support in the LIST subcommand to
format small blocks of instructions.

Bob Wright - MVS Service Aids

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Anybody have an IPCS clist to disassemble?

[Binyamin Dissen]

Anybody have an IPCS clist to disassemble?

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Re: Suggestions for New Laptop.

[Z Z]

Thanks for all suggestions.  Right now I am leaning 95% toward an 2.0GHz 
Intel Core 2 Duo iMAC.

Thanks again.
~~Carol

_
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http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2


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Re: IBM's Project Big Green Spurs Global Shift to Linux on Mainframe

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Chevalier
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 3:32 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM's Project Big Green Spurs Global Shift to 
> Linux on Mainframe



> As Mohammad suggested, I think the handwriting is on the wall: don't
> limit your skill set to legacy MVS - OS/390 - z/OS! Crack open those
> books and expand your technical horizon!
> 
> Eric
> 
> --
> Eric Chevalier  E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

And for the techie geek, the Penguin (Linux) is very FUN because we can
get our grubby paws on the source. And modify it (assuming appropriate
skills) for whatever reason. It is more like the old MVT days. It does
require learning C, of course, for the kernel itself.

Oh, and you can run Hercules/390 on your Intel/AMD PC at home (or work)
and play with the real Linux for System z under it. So you can learn
Linux for US $0.00. This does not emulate everything (in particular
OSAs), but it does work. I've done it myself, so it can't be all that
hard! Hercules/390 runs under Linux and Windows.

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Re: IBM's Project Big Green Spurs Global Shift to Linux on Mainframe

[Eric Chevalier]

On 2 Aug 2007 06:58:23 -0700, Art Celestini wrote:

>I think what Timothy and perhaps others are suggesting, is that Linux 
>may serve as a kind of “loss leader” for System Z.  Say Company XYZ 
>decides to do like IBM and replace 100 Windows/Unix servers with z/VM 
>and Linux.  Then, a year later, they are looking for a high-reliability 
>database server.  The IBM salesperson now has his/her “foot in the 
>door” and can, at least, suggest DB2 running on z/OS –- running on 
>hardware that the Customer already owns. 

I think Mohammad Khan made my point in a more entertaining (and less
subtle) way:

>It's a simple case of "NO SOUP FOR YOU DINOS" with strong hint about what 
>we should be learning.

Your example of Company XYZ, deciding to replace 100 Windows/Unix
servers with z/VM and Linux, implies that the firm is purchasing its
*first* System z box. After the server migration is completed, when
XYZ decides they need that high-reliability database server, I suspect
they will likely look first at continuing to use Linux as their
platform of choice. Oracle and DB2 are both available for that
platform (and are marketed as high-reliability database engines), as
well as MySQL and PostgreSQL. And since the firm's IT skill base is
probably very deep in the Linux/*nix culture, building the database
server on Linux would probably be a quicker and less costly approach
than bringing in a completely new platform (z/OS). And z/OS shops that
engage in server consolidation probably won't be bringing in much new
z/OS workload.

I note that there are one or two individuals in this group who have
had some difficulty finding acceptable sysprog positions, despite long
searches. I don't think the kind of sever consolidation that IBM is
promoting will help improve the employment opportunities for these
folks.

As Mohammad suggested, I think the handwriting is on the wall: don't
limit your skill set to legacy MVS - OS/390 - z/OS! Crack open those
books and expand your technical horizon!

Eric

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Re: Omegamon CPU Utilization and z/OS 1.7

[Ken Porowski]

We had put Omegamon II for MVS v550 in a few months ago to bring us up
to date.
Unless we need to rework something for a new release of z/OS we should
be good.  

-Original Message-
Kelman, Tom

Is there any possibility that you really needed to make some changes to
Omegamon?  Like a new release to support z/OS 1.7.

Tom Kelman
Commerce Bank of Kansas City
(816) 760-7632

> -Original Message-
> Ken Porowski
> 
> Anyone seen this?
> 
> Just went live with z/OS 1.7 and noticed that CPU consumption by 
> Omegamon/MVS has gone up dramatically (CMS and HIST tasks) like +50%
or
> 4 to 6 MIPS (FSVO MIPS).  No changes to Omegamon during the upgrade 
> (from z/OS 1.6).
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Ken Porowski

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Re: How old are you?

[Stephen Wolf]

I turned 61 this year (same as Gorge W. and William J.).  DO I hear 62?

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

[Chase, John]

Better late than never?

> From: Michael Babcock 
> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:06:12 -0500 
> 
> If I remember correctly, you must have SYS1.SCUNIMG in the linklist
for 
> the dynamic to work.  

We don't, and it works (z/OS 1.7).

We'll learn more tomorrow, when we try the CICS sample web services
application (CICS TS 3.2).

-jc-

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Re: Omegamon CPU Utilization and z/OS 1.7

[Kelman, Tom]

Is there any possibility that you really needed to make some changes to
Omegamon?  Like a new release to support z/OS 1.7.

Tom Kelman
Commerce Bank of Kansas City
(816) 760-7632

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ken Porowski
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:55 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Omegamon CPU Utilization and z/OS 1.7
> 
> Anyone seen this?
> 
> Just went live with z/OS 1.7 and noticed that CPU consumption by
> Omegamon/MVS has gone up dramatically (CMS and HIST tasks) like +50%
or
> 4 to 6 MIPS (FSVO MIPS).  No changes to Omegamon during the upgrade
> (from z/OS 1.6).
> 
> Thanks all.
> 
> Ken Porowski
> AVP Systems Software
> CIT Group
> E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
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Re: How old are you?

[Richards.Bob]

Not funny, Steve, not funny! (Well, actually it is, because I am
smiling, but.) :-)


Bob Richards 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Conway
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 3:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How old are you?

Bob Richards (And I do not even look 56!) 

Nope, you don't.  Not any more. . . 
  
  
  
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Re: Linux - any specific DASD requirements?

[Rich Smrcina]

Arghhh!!!  I meant *loaner* program... :)

Rich Smrcina wrote:

IBM does have a loader program for IFLs and z/VM...

http://www-03.ibm.com/support/techdocs/atsmastr.nsf/WebIndex/PRS2545



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Re: STC number for MASTER asid

[Veilleux, Jon L]

>PS: to the one who asked if there were any Job opening in the south of
France , the answer is NO .. we handle this locally :-)) 

>Bruno 

C'est domage!

Jon L. Veilleux
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Linux - any specific DASD requirements?

[Rich Smrcina]

IBM does have a loader program for IFLs and z/VM...

http://www-03.ibm.com/support/techdocs/atsmastr.nsf/WebIndex/PRS2545

O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] wrote:

Thanks Jon. I agree the optimum would be under Z/Vm however that costs money. 
For the purposes of proof of concept it will have to be native.





If you have z/VM available, I highly recommend installing Linux under
that; running it in an LPAR works fine, though.

Linux is fairly small -- depending on which components you install, of
course -- so 10 mod-3s should be plenty for getting your feet wet.

Jon






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VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: 414-491-6001
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rich.smrcina at vmassist.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina

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Re: How old are you?

[Steven Conway]

Bob Richards (And I do not even look 56!) 

Nope, you don't.  Not any more. . .

Steve Conway
Lead Systems Programmer
Information Systems & Services Division
Computer & Network Operations
Phone:   (703) 450-3156
Fax:(703) 450-3197

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Re: Omegamon CPU Utilization and z/OS 1.7

[Staller, Allan]

Just went live with z/OS 1.7 and noticed that CPU consumption by
Omegamon/MVS has gone up dramatically (CMS and HIST tasks) like +50% or
4 to 6 MIPS (FSVO MIPS.


In 30+ years with various flavors of OM, I have found that there are
really only 2 things that seem to matter.

1) Auto refresh interval. Although in repeated studies over the years I
have
never been able to measure the impact of a difference between say a 5
sec refresh and a 30 sec refresh. Yes the resource consumption did
change, but 
I could never find any impact at the application level. If you don't
have sufficient precision to measure it, does it really make a
difference?

2) The OM DASD utilization functions can consume significant amounts of
resource, especially if duplicated functions occur. (e.g. gathering DASD
cache information on more than 1 LPAR). There are several IBM Info APARS
on this and probably also on the RMF page. A similar argument would
apply to the OM functions, so check them out.

All of that being said, I don't have any specific info related to z/OS
1.7.

HTH,

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Re: Linux - any specific DASD requirements?

[O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]]

Thanks Jon. I agree the optimum would be under Z/Vm however that costs money. 
For the purposes of proof of concept it will have to be native.





If you have z/VM available, I highly recommend installing Linux under
that; running it in an LPAR works fine, though.

Linux is fairly small -- depending on which components you install, of
course -- so 10 mod-3s should be plenty for getting your feet wet.

Jon






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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Hal Merritt]

Such choices are purely business. 

Let's flip the coin. Why, exactly, is 4 miles too close? I can think of
some scenarios where being so close offers some business/technical
advantages. 
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

>As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other...
Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question?

My issue with this problem is the "it depends" clause.  I know that
there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations.

However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current
configuration of 4 miles is badness.  How or what can I use  to show
that a larger distance is better.  That is why I was looking for papers
or some other documentation.  A regional outage, be it hurricans,
flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of
my equation to start with.  Management is not concerned about those.
Just the "why go farther?" question. 

But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it
feels "right".  They want hard facts.


Any other concepts.

(And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far.  But I need something a
little more concrete.)

Lizette

 
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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Wayne Driscoll]

I agree that a risk/cost/impact on business analysis is critical.  For
example some years ago I worked for a utility in downtown Chicago, that
at time had the datacenter in the headquarters, and had a DR cold site
at one of the companies outlying facilities (also in Chicago, but well
out of downtown).  Once at a class, people pointed out that the centers
were far too close together to be of use, if say the disaster wiped out
the city, to which I pointed out that, since the company only had
customers in the Chicago area, it might not matter.  Then came April
1992, and the headquarters building lost power for 5 days due to the
tunnel flooding, and we were able to go to the cold site and get the
critical systems up and running, with network connectivity, in a fairly
short time.  For most aspects, the two centers were far too close
together, put in this case, they were just far enough.

Wayne Driscoll
Product Developer
JME Software LLC
NOTE:  All opinions are strictly my own.




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Howard Brazee
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

You don't create a DR recovery for the heck of it.   You do so because
you analyze the risks of various things happening.

If the sun goes nova, then you need several light years separation -
but the value of such doesn't help your company.

So what you need to start with is a list of risks with their
likelihoods.

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Omegamon CPU Utilization and z/OS 1.7

[Ken Porowski]

Anyone seen this?

Just went live with z/OS 1.7 and noticed that CPU consumption by
Omegamon/MVS has gone up dramatically (CMS and HIST tasks) like +50% or
4 to 6 MIPS (FSVO MIPS).  No changes to Omegamon during the upgrade
(from z/OS 1.6).

Thanks all.

Ken Porowski
AVP Systems Software
CIT Group
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Ed Gould]

On Aug 2, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Eric Bielefeld wrote:


I don't have any real answers, just some comments.  One bank I worked
for had as their disaster recovery a 370/158 computer left in the
basement of the bank after the datacenter moved 4 blocks away.  No I/O
equipment.  My last full time job, we paid for a hot site.  We never
did a disaster recovery test until 2004 (I think).  Had a disaster
struck our datacenter before then, it would have been interesting.
After that, they never did another because the z/OS datacenter was
closing.



Eric:

Got you beat on this one. One place I worked for had their DR site at  
a electrical switching station. Needless to say it was a standing  
joke, Air conditioning we don't need no stinking AC. Power  
conditioning? we don't need no stinking conditioning. Will the  
machine even power up hay it worked when it left the building. Its a  
machine that used to work but will it IPL why not, the OS doesn't  
make a difference. On and on...


Ed

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Re: Linux - any specific DASD requirements?

[Jon Brock]

A couple of links for Linux documentation:
The Linux documentation project: www.tldp.org

The Linux-390 list archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/index.html

CentOS: http://www.centos.org/
CentOS is a re-creation of Red Hat Enterprise Linux from source, without
any of Red Hat's proprietary stuff.  There are CentOS 4 versions for
s390 (32-bit) and s390x (64-bit) systems.

If you have z/VM available, I highly recommend installing Linux under
that; running it in an LPAR works fine, though.

Linux is fairly small -- depending on which components you install, of
course -- so 10 mod-3s should be plenty for getting your feet wet.

Jon




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 2:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Linux - any specific DASD requirements?

My Z/OS support is going to set up a Linux LPAR and wants to know if
there are any Linux specific DASD requirements.
 
Or should I just give him 10 3390-3s and tell him to have fun?
 
For my own edification, where might I find Linux doc?
 

 

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Re: ResourceLink Down ???

[Patrick Lyon]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 13:25:44 -0500, Brian Peterson 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>When I tried to logon to ResourceLink this afternoon, I receive the following
>error message:
>
>HTTP 500 - Internal server error
>
>Is it just me?
>
>Brian
>


I got in just fine.

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[Schwarz, Barry A]

Was it really deleted or perhaps just uncataloged/renamed?  When was the
last time is was used successfully?

You should also be looking at types 18, 65, and 66

-Original Message-
From: willie bunter [mailto:snip] 
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:00 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: SAS/SMF QUESTION

Hallo,
   
  I am trying to track down the culprit who deleted a production
library.  I ran a SAS/SMF job but no records were found.  I ran it for
TYPE 17 as well as for TYPE14 & 15 but to no avail.
   
  Anybody can suggest that there is something else I could try?  Below
is my code for type 14 & 15
  :
   DATA RAWOUT(KEEP=PRODUCT SYSTEM DSNAME GENDATE GENTIME JOBNAME); 
 TRACK=0; 
 JOBNAME = '';
 INFILE SMF END=EOF;  
 INPUT @2 RECID PIB1. @;  
 IF RECID = 14 THEN GO TO REC14;  
 IF RECID = 15 THEN GO TO REC14;  
 INPUT;DELETE;
 REC14:   
INPUT @2   RECID PIB1.  
  @3   GENTIME PIB4.
  @7   GENDATE PD4. 
  @15  JOBNAME $8.  
  @65  DSNAME  $44. 
  @65  DSPREF  $11. 
  @65  DSL20   $20. 
  @183 VOLSER  $6.  @;  
GENTIME=GENTIME/100;
IF DSL20 = 'AM1.JCLERROR.DATALIB' THEN DO;  
   PRODUCT = 'GOTIT';   
   GO TO GETINFO;   
   END; 
INPUT;DELETE;   
GETINFO:
OUTPUT RAWOUT;  
RETURN; 
PROC SORT DATA=RAWOUT;BY PRODUCT SYSTEM DSNAME GENDATE GENTIME JOBNAME; 
PROC PRINT DATA=RAWOUT;BY PRODUCT SYSTEM DSNAME;ID GENDATE; 
 
   
  Thanks

   
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Linux - any specific DASD requirements?

[O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]]

My Z/OS support is going to set up a Linux LPAR and wants to know if there are 
any Linux specific DASD requirements.
 
Or should I just give him 10 3390-3s and tell him to have fun?
 
For my own edification, where might I find Linux doc?
 

 

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[J R]

Deja vu!  Did we not discuss this before?  http://tinyurl.com/2b9ums   
The default disposition should be DISP=(NEW,DELETE,DELETE)   
That being the case, the only dataset that should be deleted would be the newly 
created one. 


> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:29:33 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: 
> SAS/SMF QUESTION> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU> > I had a similar issue with a 
> deleted dataset.> > Turned out I had to go back 3 weeks to find the job that 
> had deleted it. I knew it was a nonvsam data set so I just scanned the 14, 
> 15, 17, 18 records. The 60 records are needed if it is VSAM.> > What happened 
> was a batch job had failed to code the JCL properly. Had a blank after the 
> data set name and before the DISP parm.> > //STEPLIB DD 
> DSN=prod.data.set.name ,DISP=SHR> > When this job ended the data set will be 
> deleted as soon as the other enqueues against it were gone. This took 3 weeks 
> (this was an IMS RESLIB data set).> > Next thing we knew, IMS would not come 
> up because this file had been deleted.> > > So, have you gone far enough back 
> in the SMF data to find the culprit.> > Lizette
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ResourceLink Down ???

[Brian Peterson]

When I tried to logon to ResourceLink this afternoon, I receive the following 
error message:

HTTP 500 - Internal server error 

Is it just me?

Brian

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[J R]

Deja vu!  Did we not discuss this before?  http://tinyurl.com/2b9ums  
 
The default disposition should be DISP=(NEW,DELETE,DELETE)  
 
That being the case, the only dataset that should be deleted would be the newly 
created one.  



> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:29:33 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: 
> SAS/SMF QUESTION> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU> > I had a similar issue with a 
> deleted dataset.> > Turned out I had to go back 3 weeks to find the job that 
> had deleted it. I knew it was a nonvsam data set so I just scanned the 14, 
> 15, 17, 18 records. The 60 records are needed if it is VSAM.> > What happened 
> was a batch job had failed to code the JCL properly. Had a blank after the 
> data set name and before the DISP parm.> > //STEPLIB DD 
> DSN=prod.data.set.name ,DISP=SHR> > When this job ended the data set will be 
> deleted as soon as the other enqueues against it were gone. This took 3 weeks 
> (this was an IMS RESLIB data set).> > Next thing we knew, IMS would not come 
> up because this file had been deleted.> > > So, have you gone far enough back 
> in the SMF data to find the culprit.> > Lizette> >>> >> Anybody can suggest 
> that there is something else I could try? > >> >Wille - we also have a SAS 
> job that we use to find out such information.> >> >Here we also check record 
> types of 17, 18, 61, 62, 64, 65, and 66.> >> > 
> --> For 
> IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,> send email to 
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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Howard Brazee]

You don't create a DR recovery for the heck of it.   You do so because
you analyze the risks of various things happening.

If the sun goes nova, then you need several light years separation -
but the value of such doesn't help your company.

So what you need to start with is a list of risks with their
likelihoods.

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[CICS Guy]

Sorry, just a little Oklahoma humor - except I got it bollixed..
Should have said NW/SE since tornadoes generally travel north east..

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
Of Lizette Koehler

Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

   As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other...

Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question?

snip

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Bill Johnson]

Our DR site is about 20 miles from our Data Center.

Lizette Koehler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Listers -

Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good "distance" 
between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a 
DR site.

Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic? And 
what is your feelings on this issue.

Is 4 miles between two data centers too close? is 100 miles between two 
data centers to far?

Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this?

I have been trying to determine this in a generic way. Not based on what we 
have for connectivity. But what would be a good business case to show upper 
management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional 
issue would not take out our business. But if we were only 4 miles apart, we 
would be in a world of hurt.

Thanks for your input

Lizette

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-
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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Rick Fochtman]

-

Back in the days following September 11, 2001 there were recommendations 
and edicts floating around that 350 miles is a good number. Within the financial 
markets industry, there was even talk that this would become part of SEC 
rules and enforced. I don't believe that ever happened.


Although I can't find the SEC draft papers on this anymore, I'm sure there is 
doc available. I have these book marks:


http://labmice.techtarget.com/disaster.htm

http://www.continuitycentral.com/

http://www.disaster-resource.com/
 


-
It never happened. But my company, Board of Trade Clearing Corp., got 
high marks for doing regular testing (quarterly). Something to keep in mind!




And there is also a certification group for Disaster Recovery Planners that 
should have lots of recommendations. I can't find their website link at the 
moment. Google BCP DR and you'll get a ton of hits. You might even be able to 
find something relevant to your industry.


We are about 1800 miles from our hot site, so we are fairly confident that a 
regional disaster won't affect both sites.
 


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Hard to get that distance in Germany!

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[Rick Fochtman]

I had a similar issue with a deleted dataset.

Turned out I had to go back 3 weeks to find the job that had deleted it.  I 
knew it was a nonvsam data set so I just scanned the 14, 15, 17, 18 records.  
The 60 records are needed if it is VSAM.

What happened was a batch job had failed to code the JCL properly.  Had a blank 
after the data set name and before the DISP parm.

//STEPLIB  DD DSN=prod.data.set.name  ,DISP=SHR

When this job ended the data set will be deleted as soon as the other enqueues 
against it were gone.  This took 3 weeks (this was an IMS RESLIB data set).

Next thing we knew, IMS would not come up because this file had been deleted.


So, have you gone far enough back in the SMF data to find the culprit.
 


---
Looks like an excellent argument for RACF protection. IACC of READ might 
be most appropriate here.


I HIGHLY recommend DAF, from the CBT site, to find the culprit.

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Re: How old are you?

[Kelman, Tom]

Just a bunch of babies.  I turn 60 on September 4 and I'm proud I've
made it this far.  :-)

Tom Kelman
Commerce Bank of Kansas City
(816) 760-7632

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Richards.Bob
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:17 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: How old are you?
> 
> HAHAHAHA - for about 6 and 1/2 months you are older than I am.
HAHAHAHA
> 
> I keep forgetting that we are eligible for discounts on some things!
> 
> Bob Richards (And I do not even look 56!) 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:54 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: How old are you?
> 
> Maarten Slegtenhorst wrote:
> 
> >Hmpf,
> >
> >Two and a half weeks ago, I would have been in a younger age-group :(
> >
> >
> >
> 
> My sympathies. Turned 57 today




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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Kelman, Tom]

Is it possible to find the probability of various disaster scenarios
occurring in your area?  If you could find the probability of a
hurricane or tornado or flooding occurring at your primary site then you
would be better able to determine how far away your DR site would need
to be.  Maybe some internet searches would give you some of those
probabilities.  However, 4 miles away is a little to close for anything
except maybe your main building catching fire.

Tom Kelman
Commerce Bank of Kansas City
(816) 760-7632

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

>As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other...
Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question?

My issue with this problem is the "it depends" clause.  I know that
there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations.

However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current
configuration of 4 miles is badness.  How or what can I use  to show
that a larger distance is better.  That is why I was looking for papers
or some other documentation.  A regional outage, be it hurricans,
flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of
my equation to start with.  Management is not concerned about those.
Just the "why go farther?" question. 

But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it
feels "right".  They want hard facts.


Any other concepts.

(And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far.  But I need something a
little more concrete.)

Lizette

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Re: STC number for MASTER asid

[Bruno Sugliani]

Lizette and Wayne 
Thanks a lot for answering   
Do not worry the young man has all the books you mention plus more ( some 
of my old training books and else ) 
I already explained to him the meaning of RTFM :-)) 
I told him i'll get an answer quickly because of this community

Thanks and best regards from Paris

PS: to the one who asked if there were any Job opening in the south of 
France , the answer is NO .. we handle this locally :-)) 

Bruno 
Bruno(dot)Sugliani(at)Groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr


  

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:57:09 -0400, Wayne Driscoll 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>While ASID 1 (*MASTER*) clearly starts before JES, and not under the JES
>subsystem, in order for an address space to own JES related resources
>(such as SYSIN/SYSOUT datasets) it requires a JOBID in order for JES to
>identify the address space.  To allow this, there is an subsystem call
>"REQUEST JOBID" function code 20 which address spaces running under the
>master scheduler subsystem can use to request that JES build control
>linkages between the JES subsystem and their address space.  There is
>also a corresponding "RETURN JOBID" request, function code 21, that
>should be used if either 1 - the address terminates, or 2 - when JES is
>stopped.  This is documented in the "MVS Using the Subsystem Interface"
>manual (SA22-7642-05 at the z/OS 1.8 level).

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Re: Display I/O

[Gregory, Gary G]

CA SYSVIEW can give you that information as well.  Like the other
products mentioned, you can access SYSVIEW via VTAM, TSO or CA Roscoe.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Display I/O

Federica,

There are no MVS commands to monitor I/O.  All you can do is check to
see if
there is a mount pending (D R,L) or if there are any WTORs indicating
volumes offline (D R,L).  You can display volumes D VOL= or D U,,,,1
to
see if it is allocated.  

Only way to monitor is thru an online application like RMF under TSO, or
Omegamon (TIVOLI) or TMON, or other 3rd party monitoring tools. 

Tivoli does not require TSO, you can set it up as a VTAM application and
logon directly.

Lizette


> 
> Explanation:
> I haven't TSO, but I would monitor I/O activity
> Do you know any command to send like console's operator?
> Thanks
> Federica

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[willie bunter]

Lizette,
   
  I checked the dsn is a PDS.  That's why I have been honing on to type 14,15, 
& 17.

Lizette Koehler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  I had a similar issue with a deleted dataset.

Turned out I had to go back 3 weeks to find the job that had deleted it. I knew 
it was a nonvsam data set so I just scanned the 14, 15, 17, 18 records. The 60 
records are needed if it is VSAM.

What happened was a batch job had failed to code the JCL properly. Had a blank 
after the data set name and before the DISP parm.

//STEPLIB DD DSN=prod.data.set.name ,DISP=SHR

When this job ended the data set will be deleted as soon as the other enqueues 
against it were gone. This took 3 weeks (this was an IMS RESLIB data set).

Next thing we knew, IMS would not come up because this file had been deleted.


So, have you gone far enough back in the SMF data to find the culprit.

Lizette
>>
>> Anybody can suggest that there is something else I could try? 
>
>Wille - we also have a SAS job that we use to find out such information.
>
>Here we also check record types of 17, 18, 61, 62, 64, 65, and 66.
>

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-
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. 

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Re: COBOL Group moves

[Farley, Peter x23353]

> -Original Message-
> From: Lizette Koehler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:41 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: COBOL Group moves
> 
> I have one question on the following code snippet.
> 
> If you code a VALUE on an 05 level, do you still have to INITIALIZE the
> group level?
> 
> My cobol is very rusty.

If ALL the 05 levels (or lower levels as needed) have VALUE clauses, then
the answer is no, you do not need to INITIALIZE.

OTOH, if the structure needs to be initialized between records or accounts
or clients, you may well be using INITIALIZE anyway.  Depends on the
application, YMMV.

Tables are another reason to use INITIALIZE, I don't believe VALUE on table
elements works.

HTH

Peter

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Re: COBOL Group moves

[GAVIN Darren * OPS EAS]

No, programs start with each field initialized properly according to
their value clauses.

However if you want to reset every item in a group in the middle of a
running program, then you would.  The INITIALIZE statement comes in use
then.

Darren

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:41 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COBOL Group moves

I have one question on the following code snippet.

If you code a VALUE on an 05 level, do you still have to INITIALIZE the
group level?

My cobol is very rusty.

Lizette

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Re: How old are you?

[Ian]

The poll is still open.
But it looks like some IP addresses are NAT'ed so some people will see
the results instead of the option to vote.

I'm looking into a way around that but it does not look promising at the moment.

What I was thinking because of the tremendous interest in the subject
is to have a short survey that will break down fields of
responsibility by age that will give a more detailed picture of what
is happening.

The poll is open to anonymous users. Only if you want to leave
comments do you have to register.

Regards
Ian

http://www.pcs305.com


On 8/2/07, daver++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The poll is still open, but appears to be IP blocked. I suspect everyone
> at your company goes through the same proxy, a single IP address. I pull
> up the results page also, but I tried an alternate proxy and it pulled
> up the voting page again. FYI.
>
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: Re: How old are you?
> > From: Ken Porowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Thu, August 02, 2007 11:49 am
> > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> >
> > Did the poll close already, I voted then passed around the link but
> > everyone else here just sees the results and can't vote.  Does it do
> > some sort of IP blocking?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Ian
> >
> > Hi List,
> >
> > We have created a new poll to determine the average age of mainframe IT
> > people.
> >
> > If you are interested and willing to participate please follow this
> > link: http://www.pcs305.com/node/157
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Ian
> > http://www.pcs305.com
> >
> > --
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-- 
Ian
http://cics.pcs305.com

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Re: COBOL Group moves

[Lizette Koehler]

I have one question on the following code snippet.

If you code a VALUE on an 05 level, do you still have to INITIALIZE the group 
level?

My cobol is very rusty.

Lizette

>> >
>> > I have a query regarding the following group move:
>> >
>> > 01 GRP1.
>> >  05  N1   PIC S9(9) COMP-3 VALUE +0.
>> >  05  N2   PIC S9(9) COMP-3 VALUE +0.
>> >
>> > 01 GRP2.
>> >  05  N3   PIC S9(9) COMP-3 VALUE +123.
>> >
>> > 01 N4  PIC ZZZ,ZZZ,ZZ9.
>> >
>> > PROCEDURE DIVISION.
>> > INITIALIZE GRP1.
>> > MOVE GRP2 TO GRP1.
>> > MOVE N2 TO N4.
>> > DISPLAY N4.
>> >
>> > What value is displayed and why?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Rashmi
>> 
>> Seems a bit off topic for ibm-main, and you could just
>> run an experiment. But I'll have a go. You really only
>> have one group move here: move grp2 to grp1. A group
>> move is a character move, so the five bytes of N3 are
>> placed over the five bytes of N1 and the rest of grp1
>> (that turns out to be all of n2) is padded with blanks.
>> 
>> The result of moving blanks, then, to an edited
>> numeric field depends somewhat on various compiler
>> settings. I really don't have the time to test out
>> all the possibilities right now. I would rather, at
>> this  point, throw the question back: what are you
>> trying to accomplish? Why do you ask?
>> 
>> Steve Comstock
>
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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Dave Kopischke]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:33:24 -0400, Lizette Koehler wrote:

>>As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other...
>Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question?
>
>My issue with this problem is the "it depends" clause.  I know that there are 
hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations.
>

Back in the days following September 11, 2001 there were recommendations 
and edicts floating around that 350 miles is a good number. Within the 
financial 
markets industry, there was even talk that this would become part of SEC 
rules and enforced. I don't believe that ever happened.

Although I can't find the SEC draft papers on this anymore, I'm sure there is 
doc available. I have these book marks:

http://labmice.techtarget.com/disaster.htm

http://www.continuitycentral.com/

http://www.disaster-resource.com/

And there is also a certification group for Disaster Recovery Planners that 
should have lots of recommendations. I can't find their website link at the 
moment. Google BCP DR and you'll get a ton of hits. You might even be able to 
find something relevant to your industry.

We are about 1800 miles from our hot site, so we are fairly confident that a 
regional disaster won't affect both sites.

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Eric Bielefeld]

I don't have any real answers, just some comments.  One bank I worked 
for had as their disaster recovery a 370/158 computer left in the 
basement of the bank after the datacenter moved 4 blocks away.  No I/O 
equipment.  My last full time job, we paid for a hot site.  We never 
did a disaster recovery test until 2004 (I think).  Had a disaster 
struck our datacenter before then, it would have been interesting.  
After that, they never did another because the z/OS datacenter was 
closing.

I think a lot of the potential disasters are things that are totally 
unexpected.  The problem several years ago in downtown Chicago comes to 
mind, when many of the buildings were shut down because of a hole 
between some unused underground passageways and the Chicago River.

The possibility of a widespread nuclear war presents the possibility of 
almost all business and commerce shutting down.  Even if your data was 
in the side of a mountain and safe, if all the banks are destroyed, and 
all of the refineries are destroyed, you won't get fuel for your 
generators and you won't have money to do anything.  Hopefully that 
will never happen, but how do you prepare for it?

Eric Bielefeld
Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
414-475-7434

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POLLS -- regardless of subject.

[Anthony Saul Babonas]

Please stop.  All polls, all listservers.

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Re: COBOL Group moves

[Gregory, Gary G]

Looks like an old homework question or job interview question.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 6:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: COBOL Group moves

Steve,

I am thinking that this might be better put to the Cobol language group
on
Google?

There he could get the kind of details on COBOL that he might actually
be
asking about.

Lizette


> >
> > I have a query regarding the following group move:
> >
> > 01 GRP1.
> >  05  N1   PIC S9(9) COMP-3 VALUE +0.
> >  05  N2   PIC S9(9) COMP-3 VALUE +0.
> >
> > 01 GRP2.
> >  05  N3   PIC S9(9) COMP-3 VALUE +123.
> >
> > 01 N4  PIC ZZZ,ZZZ,ZZ9.
> >
> > PROCEDURE DIVISION.
> > INITIALIZE GRP1.
> > MOVE GRP2 TO GRP1.
> > MOVE N2 TO N4.
> > DISPLAY N4.
> >
> > What value is displayed and why?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rashmi
> 
> Seems a bit off topic for ibm-main, and you could just
> run an experiment. But I'll have a go. You really only
> have one group move here: move grp2 to grp1. A group
> move is a character move, so the five bytes of N3 are
> placed over the five bytes of N1 and the rest of grp1
> (that turns out to be all of n2) is padded with blanks.
> 
> The result of moving blanks, then, to an edited
> numeric field depends somewhat on various compiler
> settings. I really don't have the time to test out
> all the possibilities right now. I would rather, at
> this  point, throw the question back: what are you
> trying to accomplish? Why do you ask?
> 
> Steve Comstock

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[Lizette Koehler]

I had a similar issue with a deleted dataset.

Turned out I had to go back 3 weeks to find the job that had deleted it.  I 
knew it was a nonvsam data set so I just scanned the 14, 15, 17, 18 records.  
The 60 records are needed if it is VSAM.

What happened was a batch job had failed to code the JCL properly.  Had a blank 
after the data set name and before the DISP parm.

//STEPLIB  DD DSN=prod.data.set.name  ,DISP=SHR

When this job ended the data set will be deleted as soon as the other enqueues 
against it were gone.  This took 3 weeks (this was an IMS RESLIB data set).

Next thing we knew, IMS would not come up because this file had been deleted.


So, have you gone far enough back in the SMF data to find the culprit.

Lizette
>>
>>  Anybody can suggest that there is something else I could try?  
>
>Wille - we also have a SAS job that we use to find out such information.
>
>Here we also check record types of 17, 18, 61, 62, 64, 65, and 66.
>

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Re: How old are you?

[daver++]

The poll is still open, but appears to be IP blocked. I suspect everyone
at your company goes through the same proxy, a single IP address. I pull
up the results page also, but I tried an alternate proxy and it pulled
up the voting page again. FYI.

>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: How old are you?
> From: Ken Porowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, August 02, 2007 11:49 am
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> 
> Did the poll close already, I voted then passed around the link but
> everyone else here just sees the results and can't vote.  Does it do
> some sort of IP blocking? 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Ian
> 
> Hi List,
> 
> We have created a new poll to determine the average age of mainframe IT
> people.
> 
> If you are interested and willing to participate please follow this
> link: http://www.pcs305.com/node/157
> 
> Regards
> 
> Ian
> http://www.pcs305.com
> 
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Re: How old are you?

[Farley, Peter x23353]

> -Original Message-
> From: Ian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:53 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: How old are you?
> 
> Hi List,
> 
> We have created a new poll to determine the average age of mainframe IT
> people.
> 
> If you are interested and willing to participate please follow this
> link: http://www.pcs305.com/node/157

I would participate, but there isn't a Vote button anywhere I could see.
Does voting require logging in?
 
No comment plus or minus intended about the site itself, it's just not
apparent how one votes if one does not desire to register.

Peter

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Re: How old are you?

[Ken Porowski]

Old enough to know better but young enough to do it anyway (or at least
try).

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Re: How old are you?

[Rick Fochtman]

---


My sympathies. Turned 57 today
   



HBTY, HBTY, HBDR, HBTY!  (AMM)
 



Thanks, John. Rather be "over the hill" than under it!!! :-D

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Re: How old are you?

[Richards.Bob]

HAHAHAHA - for about 6 and 1/2 months you are older than I am. HAHAHAHA

I keep forgetting that we are eligible for discounts on some things!

Bob Richards (And I do not even look 56!) 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How old are you?

Maarten Slegtenhorst wrote:

>Hmpf,
>
>Two and a half weeks ago, I would have been in a younger age-group :(
>
>  
>

My sympathies. Turned 57 today 
  
  
  
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Re: How old are you?

[Chase, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
> 
> Maarten Slegtenhorst wrote:
> 
> >Hmpf,
> >
> >Two and a half weeks ago, I would have been in a younger age-group :(
> 
> My sympathies. Turned 57 today

HBTY, HBTY, HBDR, HBTY!  (AMM)

-jc-

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Rick Fochtman]

--
Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good 
"distance" between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which 
could be used as a DR site.

---
Short answer: it depends on what kind of disasters you're concerned about.

We had our DR site 60 km from the primary site. That put us on different 
major power grid, different telephone grid and reasonably well away from 
the area of contamination from chemical/biological/nuclear threats. XRC 
connections over T3 kept sites fairly well synchronized. Primary site in 
downtown Chicago; DR sight at far edge of adjacent county. Both sites 
highly secured physically, especially since 9/11. Unfortunately, senior 
management chose to relax electronic security somewhat, against my 
better judgement as security administrator.


Your mileage may vary.

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Re: IBM's Project Big Green Spurs Global Shift to Linux on Mainframe

[August Carideo]

the guys on the VM list seemed more optimistic



   
 Mohammad Khan 
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 .COM>  To 
 Sent by: IBM  IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Mainframe  cc 
 Discussion List   
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject 
 .EDU> Re: IBM's Project Big Green Spurs   
   Global Shift to Linux on Mainframe  
   
 08/02/2007 11:52  
 AM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   IBM Mainframe   
  Discussion List  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   .EDU>   
   
   




It's a simple case of "NO SOUP FOR YOU DINOS" with strong hint about what
we should be learning.


On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:19:02 -0500, Eric Chevalier
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>Now, maybe the CNN article got the details wrong. But IBM's own press
>release[1] _also_ states "Linux", not z/OS. (I can imagine those
>mainframes running Linux on top of z/VM, but z/VM != z/OS, right?)
>
>So please, explain again to me how 30 Enterprise Class mainframes
>running _Linux_ (I repeat, _Linux_) will lead to more z/OS sysprog
>jobs???
>
>Eric

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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[Patrick Lyon]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:00:24 -0700, willie bunter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

>Hallo,
>
>  Anybody can suggest that there is something else I could try?  

Wille - we also have a SAS job that we use to find out such information.

Here we also check record types of 17, 18, 61, 62, 64, 65, and 66.

HTH,
PTL

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Re: How old are you?

[August Carideo]

I could not vote, but I fall in the highest percentage in the results 48
yrs old



   
 "Thompson, Steve" 
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 TERCOMM.COM>   To 
 Sent by: IBM  IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Mainframe  cc 
 Discussion List   
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject 
 .EDU> Re: How old are you?
   
   
 08/02/2007 11:54  
 AM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   IBM Mainframe   
  Discussion List  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   .EDU>   
   
   




-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ken Porowski
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How old are you?

Did the poll close already, I voted then passed around the link but
everyone else here just sees the results and can't vote.  Does it do
some sort of IP blocking?


I was able to vote about 20 minutes after the poll notification was
posted to IBM-Main.

Regards,
Steve.T
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Re: SAS/SMF QUESTION

[O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]]

Willie,
 
  Unless you enjoy re-creating the wheel, download the DAF (Dataset Audit 
Facility) from the CBT.org.
 
It's free, reads SMF data and is designed to do exactly what you're looking for.



  
  I am trying to track down the culprit who deleted a production library.  I 
ran a SAS/SMF job but no records were found.  I ran it for TYPE 17 as well as 
for TYPE14 & 15 but to no avail.
  


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SAS/SMF QUESTION

[willie bunter]

Hallo,
   
  I am trying to track down the culprit who deleted a production library.  I 
ran a SAS/SMF job but no records were found.  I ran it for TYPE 17 as well as 
for TYPE14 & 15 but to no avail.
   
  Anybody can suggest that there is something else I could try?  Below is my 
code for type 14 & 15
  :
   DATA RAWOUT(KEEP=PRODUCT SYSTEM DSNAME GENDATE GENTIME JOBNAME); 
 TRACK=0; 
 JOBNAME = '';
 INFILE SMF END=EOF;  
 INPUT @2 RECID PIB1. @;  
 IF RECID = 14 THEN GO TO REC14;  
 IF RECID = 15 THEN GO TO REC14;  
 INPUT;DELETE;
 REC14:   
INPUT @2   RECID PIB1.  
  @3   GENTIME PIB4.
  @7   GENDATE PD4. 
  @15  JOBNAME $8.  
  @65  DSNAME  $44. 
  @65  DSPREF  $11. 
  @65  DSL20   $20. 
  @183 VOLSER  $6.  @;  
GENTIME=GENTIME/100;
IF DSL20 = 'AM1.JCLERROR.DATALIB' THEN DO;  
   PRODUCT = 'GOTIT';   
   GO TO GETINFO;   
   END; 
INPUT;DELETE;   
GETINFO:
OUTPUT RAWOUT;  
RETURN; 
PROC SORT DATA=RAWOUT;BY PRODUCT SYSTEM DSNAME GENDATE GENTIME JOBNAME; 
PROC PRINT DATA=RAWOUT;BY PRODUCT SYSTEM DSNAME;ID GENDATE; 
 
   
  Thanks

   
-
Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. 

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Ken Porowski]

Have there been any 'disasters' or near disasters in the area (go back
10-20-30 years).
If there was a (pick disaster of your choice) how close did it come to
affecting you AND the area 4 miles away and did it affect an area
10-20-50 miles away. 

-Original Message-
Lizette Koehler

>As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other...
Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question?

My issue with this problem is the "it depends" clause.  I know that
there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations.

However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current
configuration of 4 miles is badness.  How or what can I use  to show
that a larger distance is better.  That is why I was looking for papers
or some other documentation.  A regional outage, be it hurricans,
flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of
my equation to start with.  Management is not concerned about those.
Just the "why go farther?" question. 

But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it
feels "right".  They want hard facts.

Any other concepts.

(And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far.  But I need something a
little more concrete.)

Lizette

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Re: How old are you?

[Rick Fochtman]

Maarten Slegtenhorst wrote:


Hmpf,

Two and a half weeks ago, I would have been in a younger age-group :(

 



My sympathies. Turned 57 today

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Re: How old are you?

[Thompson, Steve]

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ken Porowski
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How old are you?

Did the poll close already, I voted then passed around the link but
everyone else here just sees the results and can't vote.  Does it do
some sort of IP blocking? 


I was able to vote about 20 minutes after the poll notification was
posted to IBM-Main.

Regards,
Steve.T
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Re: IBM's Project Big Green Spurs Global Shift to Linux on Mainframe

[Mohammad Khan]

It's a simple case of "NO SOUP FOR YOU DINOS" with strong hint about what 
we should be learning.


On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:19:02 -0500, Eric Chevalier 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>Now, maybe the CNN article got the details wrong. But IBM's own press
>release[1] _also_ states "Linux", not z/OS. (I can imagine those
>mainframes running Linux on top of z/VM, but z/VM != z/OS, right?)
>
>So please, explain again to me how 30 Enterprise Class mainframes
>running _Linux_ (I repeat, _Linux_) will lead to more z/OS sysprog
>jobs???
>
>Eric

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Re: How old are you?

[Ken Porowski]

Did the poll close already, I voted then passed around the link but
everyone else here just sees the results and can't vote.  Does it do
some sort of IP blocking? 

-Original Message-
Ian

Hi List,

We have created a new poll to determine the average age of mainframe IT
people.

If you are interested and willing to participate please follow this
link: http://www.pcs305.com/node/157

Regards

Ian
http://www.pcs305.com

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Jeffrey Deaver]

> But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it
feels "right".  They want hard facts.

You need a BIA - Business Impact Analysis - to show how much it costs your
business to be down.  That then gets weighed against the cost of providing
protection for certain disasters and that weighed against the possibility
of any particular disaster happening in your area.   Sounds simple, doesn't
it.  Its not.  Its a HUGE undertaking that involves people who do this for
a living and know how the risk analysis math works = actuaries.When I
was getting into this and started talking to the risk managment folks we
have I was amazed at how many aspects of it I had not thought of - I was
concentrating on the IT recovery part of it, but there is a lot more that
they have to consider.

Start here ->
http://www.drj.com/
to find consultants that could help.


Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer
Systems Engineering
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
651-665-4231(v)
651-610-7670(p)

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Howard Brazee]

On 2 Aug 2007 07:52:37 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

>Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good "distance" 
>between 2 data centers.  
>One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site.


Consider what disasters might befall that might require activating the
backup.   Blizzards, hurricanes, and power outages can cover large
areas.Use Katrina as an example.

Your backup system can be in an economically remote site as well,
saving considerable money.

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Lizette Koehler]

>As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other...
Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question?

My issue with this problem is the "it depends" clause.  I know that there are 
hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations.

However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current configuration 
of 4 miles is badness.  How or what can I use  to show that a larger distance 
is better.  That is why I was looking for papers or some other documentation.  
A regional outage, be it hurricans, flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or 
structure collapses are all part of my equation to start with.  Management is 
not concerned about those.  Just the "why go farther?" question. 

But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it feels 
"right".  They want hard facts.


Any other concepts.

(And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far.  But I need something a little 
more concrete.)

Lizette

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Thompson, Steve]

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR



I have been trying to determine this in a generic way.  Not based on
what we have for connectivity.  But what would be a good business case
to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data
centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business.  But if
we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt.



1) Where do you need to be to have a different electric power provider
(different grid attachment)?
2) Where do you need to be to have a different Gas provider?
3) Where do you need to be to have a different water supply?
4) Where do you need to be to not be affected by a transportation crash?
(truck, air, train)
5) Where do you need to be to have different supplier warehouse basis?
6) Where do you need to be to have different communications trunks?
7) How do you get sufficient temporary housing for your critical people?
(Hotels may not cut it)
8) Do you need a hot, warm or cold facility?

And as other posters have said, much of this kind of thing depends on
what level of disaster you can or want to recover from.

Regards,
Steve Thompson
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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[CICS Guy]

As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other...

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
Of O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]

Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

IBM answer #3 - It depends

It depends on the risks in your operating environment.
If you're in Oklahoma and the primary threat to life and limb stems from 
tornadoes then 10 miles might be enough.



snip

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Robert Bardos]

> Lizette Koehler
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 16:52
> 
> 
> Listers -
> 
> Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good 
> "distance" between 2 data centers.  One which is primary and one 
> which could be used as a DR site.
> 
> Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for 
> this topic?  And what is your feelings on this issue.
> 
> Is 4 miles between two data centers too close?  is 100 miles 
> between two data centers to far?
> 
> Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this?
> 
> I have been trying to determine this in a generic way.  Not 
> based on what we have for connectivity.  But what would be a 
> good business case to show upper management that if we had XX 
> miles between our data centers, then a regional issue would not 
> take out our business.  But if we were only 4 miles apart, we 
> would be in a world of hurt.
> 
> Thanks for your input
> 
> Lizette
> 


Can't help with numbers here but was reminded of a colleague who once said that 
it's not only the horizontal distance that should be considered but also the 
vertical one. (Think of massive floodings as an example.)

-- 
Robert

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Ken Porowski]

I doubt there is a single answer, it all depends on where your data
center is located.

Look at power grid, telecom, flood plain, tornado/hurricane paths, fault
lines, transportation, etc.

Your idea of staying far enough away to ensure relative safety from a
regional issue sounds about right.  

Building your own DR datacenter might have different requirements than a
contracted DR site (e.g. if I use Sungard I can theoretically recover at
any of their sites so having the primary site close by might not be that
big of an issue).

-Original Message-
Lizette Koehler

Listers -

Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good
"distance" between 2 data centers.  One which is primary and one which
could be used as a DR site.

Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this
topic?  And what is your feelings on this issue.

Is 4 miles between two data centers too close?  is 100 miles between
two data centers to far?

Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this?

I have been trying to determine this in a generic way.  Not based on
what we have for connectivity.  But what would be a good business case
to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data
centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business.  But if
we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt.

Thanks for your input

Lizette

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Test of Plain Text

[George Rodriguez]

My first post yesterday was sent in HTML format...I've made a
modification to convert the HTML to TEXT format automatically. I hope
this works...

 

George Rodriguez

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School District of Palm Beach County

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Room B301

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Binyamin Dissen]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:52:23 -0400 Lizette Koehler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

:>Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good "distance" 
between 2 data centers.  One which is primary and one which could be used as a 
DR site.

:>Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic?  
And what is your feelings on this issue.

:>Is 4 miles between two data centers too close?  is 100 miles between two 
data centers to far?

:>Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this?

The objective is to protect against a disaster, thus the DR site should be far
enough away so that it will not be affected by the same disaster (like making
sure that your backup power is carried over different lines and your backup
network connection is in a different cable, etc.)

It also depends on which disasters your company can recover from, and what the
recovery would be. For example, if your single factory was destroyed, what
would be the plan? Rebuild, or take the insurance and run? (objoke - "How do
you make a hurricane?")

--
Binyamin Dissen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel


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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[William Donzelli]

> Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good "distance" 
> between 2 data centers.  One which is primary and one which could be used as 
> a DR site.

In the good old days, at least 50 megatons away.

--
Will

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[Richards.Bob]

Lizette,

It depends! (Of course)

What are the naturally occurring problems within the primary data
centers location? Things like power grids, weather problems,
transportation issues, telco coverage, etc.

What are the business reasons for a PPRC setup over an XRC setup?

What is the cost of downtime to the business? < This one dictates
the solution.

There are many, many more questions, but you get the idea. I have had my
2nd site at 400 yards and at 500 miles. 


Bob Richards 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

Listers -

Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good
"distance" between 2 data centers.  One which is primary and one which
could be used as a DR site.

Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this
topic?  And what is your feelings on this issue.

Is 4 miles between two data centers too close?  is 100 miles between
two data centers to far?

Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this?

I have been trying to determine this in a generic way.  Not based on
what we have for connectivity.  But what would be a good business case
to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data
centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business.  But if
we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt.

Thanks for your input

Lizette

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Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR

[O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]]

IBM answer #3 - It depends
 
It depends on the risks in your operating environment.
If you're in Oklahoma and the primary threat to life and limb stems from 
tornadoes then 10 miles might be enough.
If you're located on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico and the threat is 
hurricanes, then 10 miles doesn't get you out of the danger zone. 
Worried about terrorism? Depends on the attack but 10 miles probably is enough 
unless they get their hands on a nuke in which case you'll want to be 
considerably farther away.
 
Risk analysis is the key to DR location. 
 
Just my 2 cents worth. 
 




Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good "distance" 
between 2 data centers.  One which is primary and one which could be used as a 
DR site.

Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic?  
And what is your feelings on this issue.

Is 4 miles between two data centers too close?  is 100 miles between two 
data centers to far?

Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this?

I have been trying to determine this in a generic way.  Not based on what we 
have for connectivity.  But what would be a good business case to show upper 
management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional 
issue would not take out our business.  But if we were only 4 miles apart, we 
would be in a world of hurt.

Thanks for your input

Lizette



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