Re: A Smile for the Week
In f255efe0ecf08c4a9c1db6aff423541709366...@ch2wpmail1.na.ds.ussco.com, on 01/05/2009 at 07:32 AM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com said: LAR1,13 Thirteen, When I last taught a programming class I explained that such comments would reduce their grades. SLR R0,R0 Multiply by one, An incorrect comment would reduce their grades even more :-( -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
On 6 Jan 2009 08:01:46 -0800, shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) wrote: LAR1,13 Thirteen, When I last taught a programming class I explained that such comments would reduce their grades. SLR R0,R0 Multiply by one, An incorrect comment would reduce their grades even more :-( An interesting case would be to have students debug a subtle bug. Do this later in the term weeks after talking about documentation. But grade them on fixing and/or enhancing the documentation that was already in the program relevant to that bug. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
On 5 Jan 2009 05:35:23 -0800, jch...@ussco.com (Chase, John) wrote: [label] DS0H LAR1,13 Thirteen, SLR R0,R0 Multiply by one, LTR R1,R1 Still got thirteen, BZOOPSIE But wasn't that fun? LAR1,13 Now take the same thirteen, SLA R1,1Multiply by two, LTR R1,R1 Twenty-six hours, BNZ LATEThe train's overdue. (Apologies to the late Roger Miller.) :-) Now that's funny - because I've been there! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
IMO, the best exploration of literate programming and the like is the anti-pattern - How to write unmaintainable code : http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmain.html Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of P S [ snip ] I worked for a development company where, at an engineering meeting, the VP of Engineering said that folks shouldn't comment their code, because the comments might not be correct. I waited for him to laugh. He didn't. [label] DS0H LAR1,13 Thirteen, SLR R0,R0 Multiply by one, LTR R1,R1 Still got thirteen, BZOOPSIE But wasn't that fun? LAR1,13 Now take the same thirteen, SLA R1,1Multiply by two, LTR R1,R1 Twenty-six hours, BNZ LATEThe train's overdue. (Apologies to the late Roger Miller.) :-) Of course, that ignores the possibility that the _code_ might not be correct -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
Argh, key typo: ...they're NOW out of business...! On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 12:10 AM, P S zosw...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com wrote: I hope that when people say Real Programmers don't comment code that they are being humorous, or just kidding around. Assemble code for someone like myself who has done a lot of coding, but done it a long time ago, is hard to read. Good comments make it at least possible to follow what the author was doing. I think if I were the boss, and someone wrote a lot of assmbler code without comments, they would either change their ways, or find a different job. I worked for a development company where, at an engineering meeting, the VP of Engineering said that folks shouldn't comment their code, because the comments might not be correct. I waited for him to laugh. He didn't. Later, I asked one of the others about it; he assured me that the VP was serious. I ignored him. They're not out of business... (I know, it must have been MY fault!) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
In epusl49s89hp80n0v2teq5k7utai1p6...@4ax.com, on 01/02/2009 at 01:45 PM, Howard Brazee howard.bra...@cusys.edu said: Today's code should not be obtuse enough that other programmers have to study to find out what we did. But sometimes they should know why we did it a particular way. (Assembler needs more documentation than self documenting languages, but design the documentation so that it is read and maintained). There are no self documenting languages. Regardless of the language, a real programmer will use appropriate choices of comments and labels to make the code legible, and will keep the documentation up to date. Responsible management will not only allow him to do so, but will require it. Anything less will come back to haunt you, or your successor. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Eric Bielefeld eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com wrote: I hope that when people say Real Programmers don't comment code that they are being humorous, or just kidding around. Assemble code for someone like myself who has done a lot of coding, but done it a long time ago, is hard to read. Good comments make it at least possible to follow what the author was doing. I think if I were the boss, and someone wrote a lot of assmbler code without comments, they would either change their ways, or find a different job. I worked for a development company where, at an engineering meeting, the VP of Engineering said that folks shouldn't comment their code, because the comments might not be correct. I waited for him to laugh. He didn't. Later, I asked one of the others about it; he assured me that the VP was serious. I ignored him. They're not out of business... (I know, it must have been MY fault!) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
On 1 Jan 2009 17:25:30 -0800, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: A TRUE programmer does not comment their code! It was hard to write; it should be hard to read! (We don't want others to know that it really wasn't hard to write). But if we had to analyze what the users wanted - they should analyze what we wanted! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
Interesting link http://www.cfug-md.org/articles/progcreed.cfm On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Howard Brazee howard.bra...@cusys.eduwrote: On 1 Jan 2009 17:25:30 -0800, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: A TRUE programmer does not comment their code! It was hard to write; it should be hard to read! (We don't want others to know that it really wasn't hard to write). But if we had to analyze what the users wanted - they should analyze what we wanted! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- I am as you, in you, for you. One as you in all, as all, forever. My call is your call. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SV: A Smile for the Week
If You comment Your code You disclose how smart - or dumb - the thoughts behind the coding was. If there were any... There could the reason for omitting comments hide... ;) Regards, Thomas Berg __ Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] För Howard Brazee Skickat: den 2 januari 2009 15:33 Till: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Ämne: Re: A Smile for the Week On 1 Jan 2009 17:25:30 -0800, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: A TRUE programmer does not comment their code! It was hard to write; it should be hard to read! (We don't want others to know that it really wasn't hard to write). But if we had to analyze what the users wanted - they should analyze what we wanted! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
I hope that when people say Real Programmers don't comment code that they are being humorous, or just kidding around. Assemble code for someone like myself who has done a lot of coding, but done it a long time ago, is hard to read. Good comments make it at least possible to follow what the author was doing. I think if I were the boss, and someone wrote a lot of assmbler code without comments, they would either change their ways, or find a different job. As to the comment I quoted below, if the code works, or does what it is supposed to, it can't be all bad. Eric Bielefeld - Original Message - From: Thomas Berg thomas.b...@swedbank.se Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:00 AM Subject: SV: A Smile for the Week If You comment Your code You disclose how smart - or dumb - the thoughts behind the coding was. If there were any... There could the reason for omitting comments hide... ;) Regards, Thomas Berg __ Thomas Berg Specialist IT-U SWEDBANK -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
On 2 Jan 2009 12:10:57 -0800, eric-ibmm...@wi.rr.com (Eric Bielefeld) wrote: I hope that when people say Real Programmers don't comment code that they are being humorous, or just kidding around. Assemble code for someone like myself who has done a lot of coding, but done it a long time ago, is hard to read. Good comments make it at least possible to follow what the author was doing. I think if I were the boss, and someone wrote a lot of assmbler code without comments, they would either change their ways, or find a different job. I believe we all are kidding. That said, unreliable documentation can be dangerous, and in my experience, documentation rarely gets updated adequately over time. I remember running a flow-chart program around 1980 that made absolutely no sense to me. Why have a program read a CoBOL program and create a flow chart? It's much easier to read the CoBOL program itself.Documentation is useful in telling us what the program is SUPPOSED to be doing, and why. It should tell us who made business decisions about the program. It should explain data flow and impacts outside of the job or dialog. Today's code should not be obtuse enough that other programmers have to study to find out what we did. But sometimes they should know why we did it a particular way. (Assembler needs more documentation than self documenting languages, but design the documentation so that it is read and maintained). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
Instead of comments and flow charts and the like, let's just go with literate programming ala Dr. Knuth. http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/lp.html quote Literate programming is a methodology that combines a programming language with a documentation language, thereby making programs more robust, more portable, more easily maintained, and arguably more fun to write than programs that are written only in a high-level language. The main idea is to treat a program as a piece of literature, addressed to human beings rather than to a computer. The program is also viewed as a hypertext document, rather like the World Wide Web. (Indeed, I used the word WEB for this purpose long before CERN grabbed it!) This book is an anthology of essays including my early papers on related topics such as structured programming, as well as the article in The Computer Journal that launched Literate Programming itself. The articles have been revised, extended, and brought up to date. /quote -- John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
Howard Brazee wrote: I remember running a flow-chart program around 1980 that made absolutely no sense to me. Why have a program read a CoBOL program and create a flow chart? It's much easier to read the CoBOL program itself.Documentation is useful in telling us what the program is SUPPOSED to be doing, and why. It should tell us who made business decisions about the program. It should explain data flow and impacts outside of the job or dialog. 1) For non-programmers, it offers at least a small chance of understanding what a program is supposed to do, for instance, your boss's boss. 2) While reading the program, you have to flip back and forth between pages or screens, making it hard to build and maintain a good picture of what's going on; i.e., you get lost in the details. But I'm biased, having written the output portion of ADR's Autoflow for the 709x. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
4) A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code! A TRUE programmer does not comment their code! It was hard to write; it should be hard to read! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: A Smile for the Week
4) A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code! No programmer should comment code! It was hard to write -- it should be hard to read! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
A Smile for the Week
Received this and thought it worth sharing - may it bring a smile to you this holiday season and may no one see themselves in this (if so I apologize in advance) Top 12 things likely to be overheard if you had a Klingon Programmer 12) Specifications are for the weak and timid! 11) This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need dual Pentium processors if I am to do battle with this code! 10) You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original Klingon. 9) Indentation?! - I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull! 8) What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'. Our software 'escapes' leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in it's wake. 7) Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters' - they have 'arguments' - and they ALWAYS WIN THEM. 6) Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak. 5) I have challenged the entire quality assurance team to a Bat-Leth contest. They will not concern us again. 4) A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code! 3) By filing this PTR you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare to die! 2) You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand! 1) Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! Lionel B. Dyck, Consultant/Specialist -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
