Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
<77142d37c0c3c34da0d7b1da7d7ca3473...@nwt-s-mbx1.rocketsoftware.com>,
on 03/07/2012
   at 11:36 PM, Bill Fairchild  said:

>My real main subtle point was that we who try to give an answer need
>to remember to compose our text so that it comes across as helpful; 

There can be significant disagreement as to what is helpful. Spoon
feeding is often not helpful in the long run.

Also, there is no requirement to be equally helpful to all posters.
I've posted sample code and quotes from manuals for some people, but
I'm selective about it. In particular, there are some posters who
habitually lie about the positions held by other posters, and I see no
reason why I should take the time to help them.

Similarly, if someone has already read[1] the manual and it is
unclear, or incorrect, then I'm more likely to offer assistance than
if he didn't bother.

[1] Or been unable to navigate the SRL to find the correct manual,
which is often IBM's fault rather than that of the would-be
reader. 
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Bill Fairchild]

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Greg Shirey
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 4:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

>If the point to which I responded was that many of the interactions here have 
>similarities to some customer service interactions, then I misunderstood, and 
>I would have to agree.  Disingenuousness was certainly not my intent.
Regards,
Greg Shirey

That was my point, which I stated in my opening sentence:   "We have many of 
the same customer service issues here on IBM-MAIN."

I always assume too much on the part of all the IBM-MAIN readers.  I assumed 
that everyone would be able to read my mind and NOT immediately conclude that I 
was  implying that we who may be old-timers have any obligation or 
responsibility to be nice, competent,  correct, or quick to respond.  I am 
equally guilty of taking everything I hear or read literally at first, yet I 
continue to forget that IBM-MAIN is composed of nerds like me.  I was happy to 
see that John Gilmore, who is capable of taking things more literally and in 
far more languages than almost all of us, was able to sense my vibes.  We are 
all acting voluntarily, and, except for Darren's occasional shoulder-tap, 
anarchically.  We govern ourselves.

I have answered many more questions than I have asked over the years.  My real 
main subtle point was that we who try to give an answer need to remember to 
compose our text so that it comes across as helpful; i.e., use enlightened 
self-interest, and try to do better in our posts than the bad service examples 
we have read about lately.  I am pleased to say that most of the time most 
answers are given in this spirit by most responders.  The official words from 
IBMers are a very good model for the rest of us.

Bill Fairchild

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Greg Shirey]

Well, I don't believe I suggested that all who read and post here have equal 
knowledge and experience.  If that were a prerequisite for a discussion group, 
I can't imagine how one would ever get formed.  (And then what would be 
discussed??)  
 
But I don't see how asking a question to this group establishes a 
'customer/service provider' relationship, which I would think implies a certain 
entitlement to the service and an expectation of a level of satisfactory 
performance on the part of the provider.  

If the point to which I responded was that many of the interactions here have 
similarities to some customer service interactions, then I misunderstood, and I 
would have to agree.  Disingenuousness was certainly not my intent.

Regards,
Greg Shirey
Ben E. Keith Company 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of John Gilmore
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 3:03 PM


I think Bill Fairchild would agree that an occasional thread here takes the 
form of a discussion between people who are, to a first approximation anyway, 
equally experienced and informed.

These discussions are agreeable and helpful.  They are not, however, the norm; 
and it would be disingenuous to maintain that they are (because we should like 
them to be).

Most of us, most of the time, are either askers or answerers of questions, with 
only very occasional role reversals; and this portion of what we do here is 
better modelled using Bill's terminology than Greg's.

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[R.S.]

I have no current experience with PC service, but I have a lot of 
experiences with enterprise equipment service. I have no doubt what 
company is the worst in that category.

Some examples:
- they didn't included *internal* cables. No clue about such requirement 
also.

- they deliver tape system, it took two days to find out how to connect it.
- two weeks after they replaced several important parts, they *failed* 
to replace another one, and yet another one does not work
- they did not updated microcode, despite they know the delivered one 
contains obvious errors.
- they claim the equipment is already mounted, so the warranty period 
has began. Fix time 24h is smartly not mentioned here.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[John Gilmore]

Greg Shirey wrote:


I get your drift, but have to disagree, respectfully.  This is a
discussion group, not a technical support service.  IMO, there are no
customers here.


I think Bill Fairchild would agree that an occasional thread here
takes the form of a discussion between people who are, to a first
approximation anyway, equally experienced and informed.

These discussions are agreeable and helpful.  They are not, however,
the norm; and it would be disingenuous to maintain that they are
(because we should like them to be).

Most of us, most of the time, are either askers or answerers of
questions, with only very occasional role reversals; and this portion
of what we do here is better modelled using Bill's terminology than
Greg's.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Greg Shirey]

I get your drift, but have to disagree, respectfully.  This is a discussion 
group, not a technical support service.  IMO, there are no customers here.  

Regards,
Greg Shirey
Ben E. Keith Company


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bill Fairchild
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:54 AM


We have many of the same customer service issues here on IBM-MAIN.  The 
customers are those who ask questions.  The servicers are those who try to help 
the customers by answering their questions.  Sometimes the customer asks how to 
do something before ever trying to do it.  Sometimes the customer is willing to 
read a manual but doesn't know how to find which one to read first.  Sometimes 
the customer doesn't write English very well.  Sometimes the service borders on 
arrogant, but usually the server is trying to be helpful.  Etc.

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Scott Ford]

Bill,

I think a lot of folks have trouble describing the problem and hen a techie, 
i.e.; us have o try interpret what they are saying ...a protocol ...

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Mar 7, 2012, at 10:54 AM, Bill Fairchild  
wrote:

> We have many of the same customer service issues here on IBM-MAIN.  The 
> customers are those who ask questions.  The servicers are those who try to 
> help the customers by answering their questions.  Sometimes the customer asks 
> how to do something before ever trying to do it.  Sometimes the customer is 
> willing to read a manual but doesn't know how to find which one to read 
> first.  Sometimes the customer doesn't write English very well.  Sometimes 
> the service borders on arrogant, but usually the server is trying to be 
> helpful.  Etc.
> 
> Bill Fairchild
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf 
> Of Scott Ford
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:08 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...
> 
> It helps when the customer support rep speaks and understands English. Had a 
> neighbor with laptop to router problem , she was frustrated for three 
> days..turned out o be a simple issue..
> 
> There also seems to be a bit of a epidemic of people would don't read or 
> refuse to read manuals...A good manual worth it's weight , at least to me
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> Scott Ford
> Senior Systems Engineer
> www.identityforge.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, zMan  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Dale Miller  wrote:
>>> When my wife's windoze machine neared end-of-life, we bought her a 
>>> new HP laptop. I had to spend a lot of time fixing problems my wife 
>>> encountered because of HP's tactic of pasting HP-specific crud on top 
>>> of windoze, but eventually, we got things working in an 
>>> understandable way. But then ...  On the day after the warranty 
>>> expired, the internet connection through my wireless router would not 
>>> come up. I pursued all the help pages and Google and eventually 
>>> discovered that the light (on the F12 key) signifying power status to 
>>> the wireless adapter was amber rather than blue. HP FAQ's and Google hits 
>>> indicated that I should just press the F12 key, but to no avail.
>>> When I contacted HP, I was told that I would have to pay for support 
>>> on a time-used basis or get a contract for $59. I paid the $59 and 
>>> was connected to a lady for whom English was a second language. She 
>>> knew immediately what the problem was and instructed me to delete and 
>>> rebuild one of the programs that was part of the afore-mentioned 
>>> overlay of HP crud, and then to download an updated BIOS from HP's site.
>>> What really bothers me about this is:
>>> 1) The problem's emergence on the first day of non-warranty status.
>>> 2) The fact that the problem is obviously with HP software (or 
>>> perhaps manufacturing processes related to software).
>>> 3) The fact that support knew all about the problem, but it was not 
>>> in the FAQ's, or at least not recognizable by the symptoms I experienced.
>>> 4) That I had to pay to discover HP's defect.
>> 
>> But you then posted the solution with lots of good keywords so the 
>> next person wouldn't have to pay, right?
>> --
>> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>> 
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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Bill Fairchild]

We have many of the same customer service issues here on IBM-MAIN.  The 
customers are those who ask questions.  The servicers are those who try to help 
the customers by answering their questions.  Sometimes the customer asks how to 
do something before ever trying to do it.  Sometimes the customer is willing to 
read a manual but doesn't know how to find which one to read first.  Sometimes 
the customer doesn't write English very well.  Sometimes the service borders on 
arrogant, but usually the server is trying to be helpful.  Etc.

Bill Fairchild

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott Ford
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:08 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

It helps when the customer support rep speaks and understands English. Had a 
neighbor with laptop to router problem , she was frustrated for three 
days..turned out o be a simple issue..

There also seems to be a bit of a epidemic of people would don't read or refuse 
to read manuals...A good manual worth it's weight , at least to me

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Mar 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, zMan  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Dale Miller  wrote:
>> When my wife's windoze machine neared end-of-life, we bought her a 
>> new HP laptop. I had to spend a lot of time fixing problems my wife 
>> encountered because of HP's tactic of pasting HP-specific crud on top 
>> of windoze, but eventually, we got things working in an 
>> understandable way. But then ...  On the day after the warranty 
>> expired, the internet connection through my wireless router would not 
>> come up. I pursued all the help pages and Google and eventually 
>> discovered that the light (on the F12 key) signifying power status to 
>> the wireless adapter was amber rather than blue. HP FAQ's and Google hits 
>> indicated that I should just press the F12 key, but to no avail.
>> When I contacted HP, I was told that I would have to pay for support 
>> on a time-used basis or get a contract for $59. I paid the $59 and 
>> was connected to a lady for whom English was a second language. She 
>> knew immediately what the problem was and instructed me to delete and 
>> rebuild one of the programs that was part of the afore-mentioned 
>> overlay of HP crud, and then to download an updated BIOS from HP's site.
>> What really bothers me about this is:
>> 1) The problem's emergence on the first day of non-warranty status.
>> 2) The fact that the problem is obviously with HP software (or 
>> perhaps manufacturing processes related to software).
>> 3) The fact that support knew all about the problem, but it was not 
>> in the FAQ's, or at least not recognizable by the symptoms I experienced.
>> 4) That I had to pay to discover HP's defect.
> 
> But you then posted the solution with lots of good keywords so the 
> next person wouldn't have to pay, right?
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
> 
> --
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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Scott Ford]

It helps when the customer support rep speaks and understands English. Had a 
neighbor with laptop to router problem , she was frustrated for three 
days..turned out o be a simple issue..

There also seems to be a bit of a epidemic of people would don't read or refuse 
to read manuals...A good manual worth it's weight , at least to me

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Mar 7, 2012, at 9:55 AM, zMan  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Dale Miller  wrote:
>> When my wife's windoze machine neared end-of-life, we bought her a new HP
>> laptop. I had to spend a lot of time fixing problems my wife encountered
>> because of HP's tactic of pasting HP-specific crud on top of windoze, but
>> eventually, we got things working in an understandable way. But then ...  On
>> the day after the warranty expired, the internet connection through my
>> wireless router would not come up. I pursued all the help pages and Google
>> and eventually discovered that the light (on the F12 key) signifying power
>> status to the wireless adapter was amber rather than blue. HP FAQ's and
>> Google hits indicated that I should just press the F12 key, but to no avail.
>> When I contacted HP, I was told that I would have to pay for support on a
>> time-used basis or get a contract for $59. I paid the $59 and was connected
>> to a lady for whom English was a second language. She knew immediately what
>> the problem was and instructed me to delete and rebuild one of the programs
>> that was part of the afore-mentioned overlay of HP crud, and then to
>> download an updated BIOS from HP's site.
>> What really bothers me about this is:
>> 1) The problem's emergence on the first day of non-warranty status.
>> 2) The fact that the problem is obviously with HP software (or perhaps
>> manufacturing processes related to software).
>> 3) The fact that support knew all about the problem, but it was not in the
>> FAQ's, or at least not recognizable by the symptoms I experienced.
>> 4) That I had to pay to discover HP's defect.
> 
> But you then posted the solution with lots of good keywords so the
> next person wouldn't have to pay, right?
> -- 
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
> 
> --
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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[zMan]

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Dale Miller  wrote:
> When my wife's windoze machine neared end-of-life, we bought her a new HP
> laptop. I had to spend a lot of time fixing problems my wife encountered
> because of HP's tactic of pasting HP-specific crud on top of windoze, but
> eventually, we got things working in an understandable way. But then ...  On
> the day after the warranty expired, the internet connection through my
> wireless router would not come up. I pursued all the help pages and Google
> and eventually discovered that the light (on the F12 key) signifying power
> status to the wireless adapter was amber rather than blue. HP FAQ's and
> Google hits indicated that I should just press the F12 key, but to no avail.
> When I contacted HP, I was told that I would have to pay for support on a
> time-used basis or get a contract for $59. I paid the $59 and was connected
> to a lady for whom English was a second language. She knew immediately what
> the problem was and instructed me to delete and rebuild one of the programs
> that was part of the afore-mentioned overlay of HP crud, and then to
> download an updated BIOS from HP's site.
> What really bothers me about this is:
> 1) The problem's emergence on the first day of non-warranty status.
> 2) The fact that the problem is obviously with HP software (or perhaps
> manufacturing processes related to software).
> 3) The fact that support knew all about the problem, but it was not in the
> FAQ's, or at least not recognizable by the symptoms I experienced.
> 4) That I had to pay to discover HP's defect.

But you then posted the solution with lots of good keywords so the
next person wouldn't have to pay, right?
-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Mike Schwab]

Abbreviate F*** THIS or F***DISK to FDISK to clear up the installed
but uninstallable crapware they give you.  Even the uninstalled stuff
usually makes your machine run slow, so start fresh.  Usually used
right out of the box.  And if it runs with the windows stuff, the add
on stuff probably does not work as well.

And why was your BIOS and other software not patched with all latest fixes?

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Dale Miller  wrote:
> When my wife's windoze machine neared end-of-life, we bought her a new HP
> laptop. I had to spend a lot of time fixing problems my wife encountered
> because of HP's tactic of pasting HP-specific crud on top of windoze, but
> eventually, we got things working in an understandable way. But then ...  On
> the day after the warranty expired, the internet connection through my
> wireless router would not come up. I pursued all the help pages and Google
> and eventually discovered that the light (on the F12 key) signifying power
> status to the wireless adapter was amber rather than blue. HP FAQ's and
> Google hits indicated that I should just press the F12 key, but to no avail.
> When I contacted HP, I was told that I would have to pay for support on a
> time-used basis or get a contract for $59. I paid the $59 and was connected
> to a lady for whom English was a second language. She knew immediately what
> the problem was and instructed me to delete and rebuild one of the programs
> that was part of the afore-mentioned overlay of HP crud, and then to
> download an updated BIOS from HP's site.
> What really bothers me about this is:
> 1) The problem's emergence on the first day of non-warranty status.
> 2) The fact that the problem is obviously with HP software (or perhaps
> manufacturing processes related to software).
> 3) The fact that support knew all about the problem, but it was not in the
> FAQ's, or at least not recognizable by the symptoms I experienced.
> 4) That I had to pay to discover HP's defect.
>
> Dale Miller

-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Dale Miller]

When my wife's windoze machine neared end-of-life, we bought her a new  
HP laptop. I had to spend a lot of time fixing problems my wife  
encountered because of HP's tactic of pasting HP-specific crud on top  
of windoze, but eventually, we got things working in an understandable  
way. But then ...  On the day after the warranty expired, the internet  
connection through my wireless router would not come up. I pursued all  
the help pages and Google and eventually discovered that the light (on  
the F12 key) signifying power status to the wireless adapter was amber  
rather than blue. HP FAQ's and Google hits indicated that I should  
just press the F12 key, but to no avail. When I contacted HP, I was  
told that I would have to pay for support on a time-used basis or get  
a contract for $59. I paid the $59 and was connected to a lady for  
whom English was a second language. She knew immediately what the  
problem was and instructed me to delete and rebuild one of the  
programs that was part of the afore-mentioned overlay of HP crud, and  
then to download an updated BIOS from HP's site.

What really bothers me about this is:
1) The problem's emergence on the first day of non-warranty status.
2) The fact that the problem is obviously with HP software (or perhaps  
manufacturing processes related to software).
3) The fact that support knew all about the problem, but it was not in  
the FAQ's, or at least not recognizable by the symptoms I experienced.

4) That I had to pay to discover HP's defect.

Dale Miller

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Scott Ford]

Linda:

Wow, a wonderful experience. It's always good to know and hear of good customer 
support stories. Customer support isn't very easy at times. 

Btw my experience with Western Digital is the same as yours. 

I have to kinda watch, I am second generation IT'er so, I think my expectations 
are very high.
The world has changed...

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Mar 6, 2012, at 2:04 AM, Linda Mooney  wrote:

> Hi Scott, 
> 
>   
> 
> Yeah, and guess who usually buys Western Digital almost exclusively.  :))) 
> 
>   
> 
> One more that was equally good, but not IT related.  Long ago, I used to 
> manage an apartment complex.  Tough job, you can never really go home from 
> work.  Anyway, two brothers owned the complex and I got a monthly paycheck 
> signed by one of them.  Unknown to me, they transferred ownership of the 
> apartment complex to a corporation they owned jointly. End of the month, I 
> get my monthly paycheck, deposit it, mail the monthly bills, buy groceries .  
> A couple of days later, I get a call from my bank.  My paycheck didn't go 
> through - both brother's signatures now required, check just had the one.  
> Could have been a disaster of bank charges.  First Interstate let me come 
> pick up the check, get the signature, and take it back to the bank the next 
> day.  No fees, no bounced checks, they just held the checks  "in processing". 
>  I sure wish First Interstate hadn't folded. 
> 
>   
> 
> Anyway, the way I look at, stuff happens.  People make mistakes. Do something 
> wrong or fail to do something right.  It's what they do about it that counts. 
>  It also counts a LOT when they care and when they make it right without a 
> bunch of wrangling about it.  
> 
>   
> 
> It's also important, IMHO to tell folks what a good job they've done - whe n 
> they do a good job.  And tell their boss.  I am sure that most bosses only 
> hear the bad stuff.  That's the wrong thing for customers to only say 
> something about the bad stuff.  My Mom used to ask to see the manager.  Folks 
> always asked what the problem was, looked worried or fearful.  I was in Fry's 
> a couple of weeks ago, buying my new 3TB Western Digital drive.  I received 
> exemplary service from one of the guys on the floor, so I said nice things 
> about him to his boss.  Could have knocked that boss over with a feather, and 
> that's a real shame. 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> Linda
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Scott Ford"  
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 
> Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 10:25:27 PM 
> Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad... 
> 
> Linda, 
> 
> Wow...think that's great 
> 
> Sent from my iPad 
> Scott Ford 
> Senior Systems Engineer 
> www.identityforge.com 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:14 AM, Linda Mooney  wrote: 
> 
>> Greetings! 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This happened to me a good while back, but it's worth remembering. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I had a Western Digital PC hard drive fail three weeks before its warranty 
>> ran out.  They replaced the drive, no problem, and with a larger capacity 
>> drive because the drive I had was no longer being made. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This is where it gets really special - 
>> 
>> I get the drive in , it works fine, so I start the restore from my tape 
>> backup, and the tape drive EATS the tape.  That tape backup had never given 
>> any problems before. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Called Western Digital to see if they could do something.  The old drive had 
>> a large bid on it that was due to be released a week or so later.  They 
>> fixed the drive motor on the drive, overnighted it back to me, no charge.  
>> All they asked was that I send the old drive back to them again after 
>> copying my data off. They even included a postage paid label for that.   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> All I did was to call them, explain the problem nicely and ask if there was 
>> there anything they could do for me.   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Linda 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message - 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Gabe Goldberg"  
>> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 
>> Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:54:14 PM 
>> Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad... 
>> 
>> Long ago, a friend had an IBM PS/2. The monitor failed. 
>> 
>> Being a mainframer, she called hardware support -- the same number she'd 
>> call for a broken mai

Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:

>>"Five ways your customers say they are unhappy"
>>www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/crm_customer_satisfaction/

>6. Leave.

>The best way to retain customers is to treat every customer as importamt; you 
>never know who has the ear of the CEO and you never know when one customer is 
>part of another.

Or do what Peter Cheales did: He just said: 'I WAS YOUR CUSTOMER'

He also created www.hellopeter.com where you can give compliments and 
complaints about good/bad services. While this website is mostly for South 
Africa, you can use it worldwide. 

This website is so popular, that if you said to a company's employee or clerk, 
'I'll hellopeter you and your company', you get reaction on your problem!

You use that website to lodge a complaint when all attempts to get a solution 
fails. There are at least 1670 companies which responds to 
compliments/complaints on that site.

>If you track the number of trouble tickets closed, it's important to track 
>whether the customer agrees with the closing. Quick closing of tickets for 
>unresolved problems will lose you customers.

Or having useless CRM system. (CRM - Customer Relation Management)

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Linda Mooney]

Hi Scott, 

  

Yeah, and guess who usually buys Western Digital almost exclusively.  :))) 

  

One more that was equally good, but not IT related.  Long ago, I used to manage 
an apartment complex.  Tough job, you can never really go home from work.  
Anyway, two brothers owned the complex and I got a monthly paycheck signed by 
one of them.  Unknown to me, they transferred ownership of the apartment 
complex to a corporation they owned jointly. End of the month, I get my monthly 
paycheck, deposit it, mail the monthly bills, buy groceries .  A couple of 
days later, I get a call from my bank.  My paycheck didn't go through - both 
brother's signatures now required, check just had the one.  Could have been a 
disaster of bank charges.  First Interstate let me come pick up the check, get 
the signature, and take it back to the bank the next day.  No fees, no bounced 
checks, they just held the checks  "in processing".  I sure wish First 
Interstate hadn't folded. 

  

Anyway, the way I look at, stuff happens.  People make mistakes. Do something 
wrong or fail to do something right.  It's what they do about it that counts.  
It also counts a LOT when they care and when they make it right without a bunch 
of wrangling about it.  

  

It's also important, IMHO to tell folks what a good job they've done - whe n 
they do a good job.  And tell their boss.  I am sure that most bosses only hear 
the bad stuff.  That's the wrong thing for customers to only say something 
about the bad stuff.  My Mom used to ask to see the manager.  Folks always 
asked what the problem was, looked worried or fearful.  I was in Fry's a couple 
of weeks ago, buying my new 3TB Western Digital drive.  I received exemplary 
service from one of the guys on the floor, so I said nice things about him to 
his boss.  Could have knocked that boss over with a feather, and that's a real 
shame. 



  

Linda    



- Original Message -




From: "Scott Ford"  
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 10:25:27 PM 
Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad... 

Linda, 

Wow...think that's great 

Sent from my iPad 
Scott Ford 
Senior Systems Engineer 
www.identityforge.com 



On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:14 AM, Linda Mooney  wrote: 

> Greetings! 
> 
> 
> 
> This happened to me a good while back, but it's worth remembering. 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a Western Digital PC hard drive fail three weeks before its warranty 
> ran out.  They replaced the drive, no problem, and with a larger capacity 
> drive because the drive I had was no longer being made. 
> 
> 
> 
> This is where it gets really special - 
> 
> I get the drive in , it works fine, so I start the restore from my tape 
> backup, and the tape drive EATS the tape.  That tape backup had never given 
> any problems before. 
> 
> 
> 
> Called Western Digital to see if they could do something.  The old drive had 
> a large bid on it that was due to be released a week or so later.  They fixed 
> the drive motor on the drive, overnighted it back to me, no charge.  All they 
> asked was that I send the old drive back to them again after copying my data 
> off. They even included a postage paid label for that.   
> 
> 
> 
> All I did was to call them, explain the problem nicely and ask if there was 
> there anything they could do for me.   
> 
> 
> 
> Linda 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> 
> 
> From: "Gabe Goldberg"  
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 
> Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:54:14 PM 
> Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad... 
> 
> Long ago, a friend had an IBM PS/2. The monitor failed. 
> 
> Being a mainframer, she called hardware support -- the same number she'd call 
> for a broken mainframe. IBM promptly dispatched a CE to her house; he 
> replaced the monitor, cleaned up any mess, and departed in his unmarked white 
> van. 
> 
> More recently, article I wrote about complaining -- mostly good news but some 
> failures: 
> http://archive.slickdeals.net/f/1979348-Creative-Griping-Makes-Friends-and-Brings-Rewards
>  
> 
> And other interesting articles... 
> 
> "The Very Picky Customer" 
> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/the-very-picky-customer/ 
> 
> "What Satisfying Picky Customers Can Mean to a Business" 
> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/the-critical-5-percent-of-customers/ 
> 
> "Five ways your customers say they are unhappy" 
> www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/crm_customer_satisfaction/ 
> 
> PeopleClaim: Taking Complaints Public Via the Web 
> bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/peopleclaim-taking-complaints-public-via-the-web/?nl=your-money&emc=your-moneyema4
>  
> 
> Bottom line,

Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <4f53e486.3060...@gabegold.com>, on 03/04/2012
   at 04:54 PM, Gabe Goldberg  said:

>"Five ways your customers say they are unhappy"
>www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/crm_customer_satisfaction/

6. Leave.

The best way to retain customers is to treat every customer as
importamt; you never know who has the ear of the CEO and you never
know when one customer is part of another.

If you track the number of trouble tickets closed, it's important to
track whether the customer agrees with the closing. Quick closing of
tickets for unresolved problems will lose you customers.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Scott Ford]

Linda,

Wow...think that's great 

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:14 AM, Linda Mooney  wrote:

> Greetings! 
> 
> 
> 
> This happened to me a good while back, but it's worth remembering. 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a Western Digital PC hard drive fail three weeks before its warranty 
> ran out.  They replaced the drive, no problem, and with a larger capacity 
> drive because the drive I had was no longer being made. 
> 
> 
> 
> This is where it gets really special - 
> 
> I get the drive in , it works fine, so I start the restore from my tape 
> backup, and the tape drive EATS the tape.  That tape backup had never given 
> any problems before. 
> 
> 
> 
> Called Western Digital to see if they could do something.  The old drive had 
> a large bid on it that was due to be released a week or so later.  They fixed 
> the drive motor on the drive, overnighted it back to me, no charge.  All they 
> asked was that I send the old drive back to them again after copying my data 
> off. They even included a postage paid label for that.  
> 
> 
> 
> All I did was to call them, explain the problem nicely and ask if there was 
> there anything they could do for me.  
> 
> 
> 
> Linda 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -----
> 
> 
> From: "Gabe Goldberg"  
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 
> Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:54:14 PM 
> Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad... 
> 
> Long ago, a friend had an IBM PS/2. The monitor failed. 
> 
> Being a mainframer, she called hardware support -- the same number she'd call 
> for a broken mainframe. IBM promptly dispatched a CE to her house; he 
> replaced the monitor, cleaned up any mess, and departed in his unmarked white 
> van. 
> 
> More recently, article I wrote about complaining -- mostly good news but some 
> failures: 
> http://archive.slickdeals.net/f/1979348-Creative-Griping-Makes-Friends-and-Brings-Rewards
>  
> 
> And other interesting articles... 
> 
> "The Very Picky Customer" 
> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/the-very-picky-customer/ 
> 
> "What Satisfying Picky Customers Can Mean to a Business" 
> http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/the-critical-5-percent-of-customers/ 
> 
> "Five ways your customers say they are unhappy" 
> www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/crm_customer_satisfaction/ 
> 
> PeopleClaim: Taking Complaints Public Via the Web 
> bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/peopleclaim-taking-complaints-public-via-the-web/?nl=your-money&emc=your-moneyema4
>  
> 
> Bottom line, complaining wins MUCH more often than not, and keeping quiet 
> NEVER wins... 
> 
> Robert Prins said: 
> 
> I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but here's a short story about 
> customer service... 
> 
> -- 
> Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc.   g...@gabegold.com 
> 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042   (703) 204-0433 
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 
> 
> -- 
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> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
> 
> --
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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Linda Mooney]

Greetings! 



This happened to me a good while back, but it's worth remembering. 



I had a Western Digital PC hard drive fail three weeks before its warranty ran 
out.  They replaced the drive, no problem, and with a larger capacity drive 
because the drive I had was no longer being made. 



This is where it gets really special - 

I get the drive in , it works fine, so I start the restore from my tape backup, 
and the tape drive EATS the tape.  That tape backup had never given any 
problems before. 



Called Western Digital to see if they could do something.  The old drive had a 
large bid on it that was due to be released a week or so later.  They fixed the 
drive motor on the drive, overnighted it back to me, no charge.  All they asked 
was that I send the old drive back to them again after copying my data off. 
They even included a postage paid label for that.  



All I did was to call them, explain the problem nicely and ask if there was 
there anything they could do for me.  



Linda 



- Original Message -


From: "Gabe Goldberg"  
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 
Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:54:14 PM 
Subject: Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad... 

Long ago, a friend had an IBM PS/2. The monitor failed. 

Being a mainframer, she called hardware support -- the same number she'd call 
for a broken mainframe. IBM promptly dispatched a CE to her house; he replaced 
the monitor, cleaned up any mess, and departed in his unmarked white van. 

More recently, article I wrote about complaining -- mostly good news but some 
failures: 
http://archive.slickdeals.net/f/1979348-Creative-Griping-Makes-Friends-and-Brings-Rewards
 

And other interesting articles... 

"The Very Picky Customer" 
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/the-very-picky-customer/ 

"What Satisfying Picky Customers Can Mean to a Business" 
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/the-critical-5-percent-of-customers/ 

"Five ways your customers say they are unhappy" 
www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/crm_customer_satisfaction/ 

PeopleClaim: Taking Complaints Public Via the Web 
bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/peopleclaim-taking-complaints-public-via-the-web/?nl=your-money&emc=your-moneyema4
 

Bottom line, complaining wins MUCH more often than not, and keeping quiet NEVER 
wins... 

Robert Prins said: 

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but here's a short story about 
customer service... 

-- 
Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc.       g...@gabegold.com 
3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042           (703) 204-0433 
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegold            Twitter: GabeG0 

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Gabe Goldberg]

Long ago, a friend had an IBM PS/2. The monitor failed.

Being a mainframer, she called hardware support -- the same number she'd call 
for a broken mainframe. IBM promptly dispatched a CE to her house; he replaced 
the monitor, cleaned up any mess, and departed in his unmarked white van.

More recently, article I wrote about complaining -- mostly good news but some 
failures:
http://archive.slickdeals.net/f/1979348-Creative-Griping-Makes-Friends-and-Brings-Rewards

And other interesting articles...

"The Very Picky Customer"
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/the-very-picky-customer/

"What Satisfying Picky Customers Can Mean to a Business"
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/the-critical-5-percent-of-customers/

"Five ways your customers say they are unhappy"
www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/30/crm_customer_satisfaction/

PeopleClaim: Taking Complaints Public Via the Web
bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/peopleclaim-taking-complaints-public-via-the-web/?nl=your-money&emc=your-moneyema4

Bottom line, complaining wins MUCH more often than not, and keeping quiet NEVER 
wins...

Robert Prins said:

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but here's a short story about
customer service...

--
Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc.   g...@gabegold.com
3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042   (703) 204-0433
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 03/03/2012
   at 08:16 AM, Robert Prins  said:

>I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but here's a short story about
>customer service...

It doesn't offend me, but we differ as to what constitutes good
service. If I have to contact the CEO in order to get service then
there is a major problem.

As an example of good service, my older daughter bought a computer
from Pogo that worked fine while under warranty but started hanging
some time after the warranty had expired. I took it to several
dealers, none of whom were able to diagnose the problem. I asked for
advice in a news group, mentioning that it was out of warranty, and a
gentleman from Pogo contacted him and said that he would like to
resolve the problem. After some discussion, he offered to send me a
new graphics adapter and asked me to test whether it resolved the
problem. The new adapter did solve the problem, and Pogo did not
charge me for it. Needless to say, the next time I need to buy a PC to
run Linux, I will turn to Pogo first.

>In February 2004 I bought an HP Pavilion PC. 

The sad thing is that HP used to have exemplary service, at least for
printers.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Gerhard Postpischil]

On 3/3/2012 3:16 AM, Robert Prins wrote:

Needlessly to say, when I bought a new PC for myself at the beginning
of this year, and a new notebook for my wife, I stayed away as far as
possible from HP.

I don't know if my experience was an exception, but even if it was,
that is no way to treat your customers!


Back in 2004 I purchased a Compaq laptop that included a rebate 
for either cash or software. Also they had a "deal" on a memory 
stick with a rebate. They refused both rebates on the grounds 
that I didn't send them in in a timely fashion (within 45 days 
of purchase!). While I kept and used the laptop until it gave up 
the ghost, I replaced all my HP printers with Kyocera, with 
cheaper and better features, and sleep soundly that they lost 
more on toner sales than the rebates would have cost them.


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Scott Ford]

Mike,

I could say a lot about this I had a hitachi 2TB drive fail less than 30days 
after purchase, their tech support jerked my chain for a week, until I called 
and demanded to speak to the manager.
The issue was the label on the drive was a little unglued, hence the thy 
assume, I tampered with the drive. I got a new drive ...

Sent from my iPad
Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Mar 3, 2012, at 7:41 PM, Mike Schwab  wrote:

> Last entry on the first page:
> 
>> http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19353745.aspx
> 
>> I have an XPS 17 with the same USB 3.0 Controler (resenas), and i have the 
>> problem with an external hard drive Verbatim 500 Go USB 3.0.
> 
>> With the default drivers (v2.0.4.0) when I connect the hard drive on usb 3 
>> plug it doesn't work, but it's ok on lateral usb 2 plug.
> 
>> If I plug an usb 2 device on the usb 3 controler, it's ok.
> 
>> I have contacted Verbatim support for this problem, and they said that 
>> there's a problem with the resenas drivers v2.0.4.0, and the solution is to 
>> install old resenas drivers v1.0.20.0.
> 
>> I try this solution and effectively with this old drivers my USB 3.0 hard 
>> drive work correctly on USB 3.0.
> 
> Looks like a bad driver update.
> 
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Stephen Mednick  wrote:
>> I understand your frustrations with HP but Dell aren't much better!
>> 
>> Take a read of the following thread about the poor souls who have been
>> experiencing USB 3 problems with their XPS 15/17 laptops. The thread goes
>> for 68 pages and was started in  November 2010. And Dell still hasn't
>> rectified the problem.
>> 
>> http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19353745.aspx
>> 
>> Fortunately I stumbled on the thread during my research into buying a new
>> Dell laptop.
>> 
>> 
>> Stephen Mednick
>> Computer Supervisory Services
>> Sydney, Australia
>> 
>> Asia/Pacific representatives for:
>> Innovation Data Processing, Inc.
>> 
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
> 
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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Mike Schwab]

Last entry on the first page:

> http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19353745.aspx

>I have an XPS 17 with the same USB 3.0 Controler (resenas), and i have the 
>problem with an external hard drive Verbatim 500 Go USB 3.0.

>With the default drivers (v2.0.4.0) when I connect the hard drive on usb 3 
>plug it doesn't work, but it's ok on lateral usb 2 plug.

>If I plug an usb 2 device on the usb 3 controler, it's ok.

>I have contacted Verbatim support for this problem, and they said that there's 
>a problem with the resenas drivers v2.0.4.0, and the solution is to install 
>old resenas drivers v1.0.20.0.

>I try this solution and effectively with this old drivers my USB 3.0 hard 
>drive work correctly on USB 3.0.

Looks like a bad driver update.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Stephen Mednick  wrote:
> I understand your frustrations with HP but Dell aren't much better!
>
> Take a read of the following thread about the poor souls who have been
> experiencing USB 3 problems with their XPS 15/17 laptops. The thread goes
> for 68 pages and was started in  November 2010. And Dell still hasn't
> rectified the problem.
>
> http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19353745.aspx
>
> Fortunately I stumbled on the thread during my research into buying a new
> Dell laptop.
>
>
> Stephen Mednick
> Computer Supervisory Services
> Sydney, Australia
>
> Asia/Pacific representatives for:
> Innovation Data Processing, Inc.
>
> --
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Stephen Mednick]

I understand your frustrations with HP but Dell aren't much better!

Take a read of the following thread about the poor souls who have been
experiencing USB 3 problems with their XPS 15/17 laptops. The thread goes
for 68 pages and was started in  November 2010. And Dell still hasn't
rectified the problem.

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/19353745.aspx

Fortunately I stumbled on the thread during my research into buying a new
Dell laptop.


Stephen Mednick
Computer Supervisory Services
Sydney, Australia

Asia/Pacific representatives for:
Innovation Data Processing, Inc.

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Re: Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[zMan]

I stopped reading when you said "HP". Ne'er a worse disaster hath been wrought.

My experiences included HP sending the wrong replacement HD (IDE
instead of SATA, although of course they knew the machine was
SATA-only), then sending TWO SATAs and closing the ticket, so I
couldn't have returned the extra had I been so inclined (I did check).
And a colleague bought his mother a laser printer, which came missing
the driver CD. He opened a ticket, and they sent her the CD -- along
with another printer. And, again, no way to return it.

At least our experiences were in our favor! Sorry you head to learn
about HP the hard way.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 12:16 AM, Robert Prins  wrote:
> I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but here's a short story about
> customer service...
-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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Customer Service, the good and the bad...

[Robert Prins]

Hi,

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but here's a short story about
customer service...

Once, in a very grey past, I bought a copy of OS/2, and with it came a
card that entitled me to two years worth of free updates. I duly send
it back to IBM and it was met with silence. Eventually, just a few
short months before the end of the two-year period, I called IBM.
First IBM UK, who turned out to be clueless, and then IBM in the US. I
was handed from one clueless person to the next, until, after about
half a dozen not very cheap calls across the pond I had enough.

I wrote a letter, and I wrote it directly to the big boss, Sam Palmisano.

Just a few days(!) later I got a call from an executive assistant of
the CEO of IBM UK, asking me to explain what had happened. I did do
so, I think I even send her a scanned copy of my "Proof of
entitlement". She told me that she would (try to) sort things out.
Another few days passed, and then I got a call from someone in the US.
I told him the same story, he apologized and told me that he would do
his best to help me and lo and behold, about three weeks later the
postman knocked on the door and handed me a (huge for the contents)
box with all updates for OS/2 that had been made available over those
last two years.

Another example of IBM listening to its customers? Take a look at page
381 (PDF: 466) of the PL/I V4R2 Programming guide,
 One of the
paragraphs on that page reads:


If you do have code that uses BASED structures with REFER and which the
compiler flags with this message, you may be able to get better performance by
passing the structure to a subroutine that declares a corresponding
structure with *
extents. This will cause the structure to be mapped once at the CALL statement,
but there will no further remappings when it is accessed in the called
subroutine.


I still have the email to Peter Elderon in which I suggested he might
want to add the above, as using this trick can save enormous amounts
of CPU time. (It's now slightly less required due to the generation,
provided some restrictions are met, of in-line of code to access such
structures) In fact since 2006 sent reports of many bugs in PL/I
directly to Peter Elderon and he not only acknowledged them, but also
fixed them, despite the fact that I never followed official rules for
the submission of APARs...

Bravo, IBM!

Now, I've had similar experiences with Virgin Mobile - called their
customer service about a billing problem and for weeks I was shifted
around endlessly between clueless idiots. In this case the problem was
solved within days by writing a letter to Sir Richard Branson.

Bravo, Virgin!

I can give more examples of great customer service, but how about a
company that really doesn't seem to care?

In February 2004 I bought an HP Pavilion PC. It wasn't cheap, but it
was one of the first from a mainline manufacturer to come with an
Athlon 64. About 15 months later, out of warranty, it suddenly died. I
wrote to HP UK, but "Sorry you will have to pay to get it repaired".
Fortunately, just about a week later someone offered an equivalent
motherboard on eBay (by that time a local PC guy had determined that
the problem could only be the motherboard), for about one fifth of the
HP repair cost. Bought it, and the PC worked again, for just over a
year or so. Then some capacitors popped their tops. Got another mobo
from eBay, and the same thing happened again, twice. Re-capped the
last mobo, only to see more capacitors pop, the last time in October
last year. Fed up, and without being able to get a replacement from
eBay, I wrote a letter to HP's new CEO, Meg Whitman.

Result: Zilch, noppes, rien du tout. I've never had a reply.

Some Googling about popped capacitors turned out hundreds of hits, and
there seemed to be a genuine problem with industrial espionage gone
awry in the early 2000's, according to one website DELL spent around
USD 300 million to recall and replace motherboards.

Needlessly to say, when I bought a new PC for myself at the beginning
of this year, and a new notebook for my wife, I stayed away as far as
possible from HP.

I don't know if my experience was an exception, but even if it was,
that is no way to treat your customers!

HP, you suck, and if anyone connected to HP reads this, please tell
your big boss to have a look at this,
 and
maybe start treating your customers like they should be treated!
-- 
Robert AH Prins
robert.ah.pr...@gmail.com

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