Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
Gibney, Dave wrote: I must have something wrong. I just installed the latest. 3.3.0.1 and I still get: Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) This past weekend, I applied APAR PK77240 (UK43295 on z/OS 1.9) to my test system and set TLSRFCLEVEL RFC4217 in FTP.DATA. This does seem to have fixed the problem. -- Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly I always use FileZilla which I'm not the fondest of. But it works! Last I tried, the current version of Filezilla didn't to z/OS SSL secured FTP. Has that changed? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
It's supported FTPS for some time now. It just lacks a lot of customization. Honestly, FileZilla is a pretty terrible FTP client. But there's really not too many clients that I'd say are good, for Windows. On Mac I've got some very well-done choices. It will do what you want it to, which is why I grudgingly use it. I still click around hoping to find a way to tweak a few options, but it's just very bare bones in that regard. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly I always use FileZilla which I'm not the fondest of. But it works! Last I tried, the current version of Filezilla didn't to z/OS SSL secured FTP. Has that changed? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
Dave Gibney of the IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 12/03/2009 12:48:37 PM: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly I always use FileZilla which I'm not the fondest of. But it works! Last I tried, the current version of Filezilla didn't to z/OS SSL secured FTP. Has that changed? Filezilla supports FTP TLS/SSL transfers. Regards, John K -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
I must have something wrong. I just installed the latest. 3.3.0.1 and I still get: Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly It's supported FTPS for some time now. It just lacks a lot of customization. Honestly, FileZilla is a pretty terrible FTP client. But there's really not too many clients that I'd say are good, for Windows. On Mac I've got some very well-done choices. It will do what you want it to, which is why I grudgingly use it. I still click around hoping to find a way to tweak a few options, but it's just very bare bones in that regard. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly I always use FileZilla which I'm not the fondest of. But it works! Last I tried, the current version of Filezilla didn't to z/OS SSL secured FTP. Has that changed? - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
Where's the trace coming from? What are you connecting to? There's a lot of questions about your setup that I'd wonder about, before being able to begin diagnosing the issue. You're welcome to snowball me with info about how you're doing things, if you'd like some help. No guarantees, but I've been through hell and back with the Digital Certificate stuff--so I've gotten quite good at figuring out what's wrong/where. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: I must have something wrong. I just installed the latest. 3.3.0.1 and I still get: Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly It's supported FTPS for some time now. It just lacks a lot of customization. Honestly, FileZilla is a pretty terrible FTP client. But there's really not too many clients that I'd say are good, for Windows. On Mac I've got some very well-done choices. It will do what you want it to, which is why I grudgingly use it. I still click around hoping to find a way to tweak a few options, but it's just very bare bones in that regard. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly I always use FileZilla which I'm not the fondest of. But it works! Last I tried, the current version of Filezilla didn't to z/OS SSL secured FTP. Has that changed? - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
resumed Trace: Cipher: ARCFOUR-128, MAC: MD5 Trace: CTransferSocket::OnConnect Trace: CTlsSocket::OnRead() Trace: CTlsSocket::OnRead() Trace: CTlsSocket::OnRead() Trace: CTlsSocket::OnRead() Trace: CTlsSocket::OnRead() Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: CTlsSocket::Failure(-9, 0) Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) Trace: CFtpControlSocket::TransferEnd() Trace: CTlsSocket::OnRead() Trace: CFtpControlSocket::OnReceive() Response: 250 List completed successfully. Trace: CFtpControlSocket::TransferParseResponse() Trace:code = 2 Trace:state = 7 Trace: CFtpControlSocket::ResetOperation(2) Trace: CControlSocket::ResetOperation(2) Trace: CFtpControlSocket::ParseSubcommandResult(2) Trace: CFtpControlSocket::ListSubcommandResult() Trace:state = 3 Trace: CFtpControlSocket::ResetOperation(2) Trace: CControlSocket::ResetOperation(2) Error: Failed to retrieve directory listing Trace: CFileZillaEnginePrivate::ResetOperation(2) Trace: CTlsSocket::OnRead() Trace: CTlsSocket::Failure(-9, 10053) Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Trace: CTlsSocket::OnSocketEvent(): close event received Trace: CRealControlSocket::OnClose(10053) Error: Disconnected from server: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CControlSocket::DoClose(64) Trace: CFtpControlSocket::ResetOperation(66) Trace: CControlSocket::ResetOperation(66) Trace: CFileZillaEnginePrivate::ResetOperation(66) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:34 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly Where's the trace coming from? What are you connecting to? There's a lot of questions about your setup that I'd wonder about, before being able to begin diagnosing the issue. You're welcome to snowball me with info about how you're doing things, if you'd like some help. No guarantees, but I've been through hell and back with the Digital Certificate stuff--so I've gotten quite good at figuring out what's wrong/where. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: I must have something wrong. I just installed the latest. 3.3.0.1 and I still get: Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly It's supported FTPS for some time now. It just lacks a lot of customization. Honestly, FileZilla is a pretty terrible FTP client. But there's really not too many clients that I'd say are good, for Windows. On Mac I've got some very well-done choices. It will do what you want it to, which is why I grudgingly use it. I still click around hoping to find a way to tweak a few options, but it's just very bare bones in that regard. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM- m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly I always use FileZilla which I'm not the fondest of. But it works! Last I tried, the current version of Filezilla didn't to z/OS SSL secured FTP. Has that changed? - - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html --- --- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
Gibney, Dave wrote: I must have something wrong. I just installed the latest. 3.3.0.1 and I still get: Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) We had a similar problem some time ago.. With help from the IBMTCP-L list I found: http://trac.filezilla-project.org/ticket/3626 which seemed to match the problem. Nothing I tried at the time got around this problem. My next thing to try was switching to AT-TLS which someone said fixed the problem, but I have been too busy to get it set up. However I now see: http://trac.filezilla-project.org/ticket/3684 which sounds like there might be a fix without AT-TLS. I am going to try this this weekend. Steve Bireley of Bluezone helped in looking at some of my traces, and also suggested I try the Bluezone client which is free. http://www.bluezonesoftware.com/ Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
Thanks, UK43295 (APAR PK77240) is on my 1.9 system. I'll give TLSRFCLEVEL RFC4217 a try and report back. This is my third trip to this well on this issue. May be the charm :) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Peurifoy Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly Gibney, Dave wrote: I must have something wrong. I just installed the latest. 3.3.0.1 and I still get: Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) We had a similar problem some time ago.. With help from the IBMTCP-L list I found: http://trac.filezilla-project.org/ticket/3626 which seemed to match the problem. Nothing I tried at the time got around this problem. My next thing to try was switching to AT-TLS which someone said fixed the problem, but I have been too busy to get it set up. However I now see: http://trac.filezilla-project.org/ticket/3684 which sounds like there might be a fix without AT-TLS. I am going to try this this weekend. Steve Bireley of Bluezone helped in looking at some of my traces, and also suggested I try the Bluezone client which is free. http://www.bluezonesoftware.com/ Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
I was able to connect to my z/OS v1r9 system with FileZilla just fine. Something you'll want to do is to go into your FTPDATA configuration, and set: debugsec debugCMD debugsoc(3) debugflo You can also add a parm to the FTPD (I believe) setting: ENVAR(GSK_TRACE=0X) It may be exclusive to the FTP Client, but I don't think so. So, give that a shot and you can e-mail the results privately to me, if you don't want all of that detail to be published on the list. This will let you see what the server thinks about the connection that's being established. Also, can you provide the TLS-relevant configurations, from your FTPDATA? My retarded blog (inherentlylame.com) covers how I've set it up in the past--and it worked with FileZilla. Another thing: Is there a firewall between your computer and the Mainframe? That's also very important. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: Thanks, UK43295 (APAR PK77240) is on my 1.9 system. I'll give TLSRFCLEVEL RFC4217 a try and report back. This is my third trip to this well on this issue. May be the charm :) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Peurifoy Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly Gibney, Dave wrote: I must have something wrong. I just installed the latest. 3.3.0.1 and I still get: Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) We had a similar problem some time ago.. With help from the IBMTCP-L list I found: http://trac.filezilla-project.org/ticket/3626 which seemed to match the problem. Nothing I tried at the time got around this problem. My next thing to try was switching to AT-TLS which someone said fixed the problem, but I have been too busy to get it set up. However I now see: http://trac.filezilla-project.org/ticket/3684 which sounds like there might be a fix without AT-TLS. I am going to try this this weekend. Steve Bireley of Bluezone helped in looking at some of my traces, and also suggested I try the Bluezone client which is free. http://www.bluezonesoftware.com/ Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly
Looking at the log, it seems to me that there might indeed be a firewall somewhere. It's when you do a LIST that the whole thing bombs. You may want to try: TLSRFCLEVEL CCCNONOTIFY The FTPDATA I use (for my client, when going through a firewall) uses the FTPDATA: secure_mechanism tls secure_dataconn private TLSRFCLEVEL CCCNONOTIFY I don't specify the 'secure_ctrlconn' but you can always try setting that to 'clear', as well. Another route you can use is to have the network admins open a range of high-number ports on the firewall, then you code that into your FTPDATA. That way, the firewall doesn't have to try and figure out what port is being dynamically created for the FTP transfer. It just uses a pre-allocated set of ports. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Scott sc...@aitrus.org wrote: I was able to connect to my z/OS v1r9 system with FileZilla just fine. Something you'll want to do is to go into your FTPDATA configuration, and set: debugsec debugCMD debugsoc(3) debugflo You can also add a parm to the FTPD (I believe) setting: ENVAR(GSK_TRACE=0X) It may be exclusive to the FTP Client, but I don't think so. So, give that a shot and you can e-mail the results privately to me, if you don't want all of that detail to be published on the list. This will let you see what the server thinks about the connection that's being established. Also, can you provide the TLS-relevant configurations, from your FTPDATA? My retarded blog (inherentlylame.com) covers how I've set it up in the past--and it worked with FileZilla. Another thing: Is there a firewall between your computer and the Mainframe? That's also very important. Scott On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: Thanks, UK43295 (APAR PK77240) is on my 1.9 system. I'll give TLSRFCLEVEL RFC4217 a try and report back. This is my third trip to this well on this issue. May be the charm :) Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Peurifoy Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Filezilla, was Ipswitch WS_FTP Pro 12 not displaying OMVS directories correctly Gibney, Dave wrote: I must have something wrong. I just installed the latest. 3.3.0.1 and I still get: Trace: CTransferSocket::OnReceive(), m_transferMode=0 Trace: GnuTLS error -9: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received. Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection Error: Could not read from transfer socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted Trace: CTransferSocket::TransferEnd(3) We had a similar problem some time ago.. With help from the IBMTCP-L list I found: http://trac.filezilla-project.org/ticket/3626 which seemed to match the problem. Nothing I tried at the time got around this problem. My next thing to try was switching to AT-TLS which someone said fixed the problem, but I have been too busy to get it set up. However I now see: http://trac.filezilla-project.org/ticket/3684 which sounds like there might be a fix without AT-TLS. I am going to try this this weekend. Steve Bireley of Bluezone helped in looking at some of my traces, and also suggested I try the Bluezone client which is free. http://www.bluezonesoftware.com/ Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
