Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... In a message dated 5/11/2006 9:32:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: More important than automating the swap message is investigating the cause of the I/O errors. Don't we run EREP anymore? There's a nice summary of temps and perms for each device in the history profile. That is not entirely the same, reading EREP reports is done once a day at most and a unit can start swapping at some point during the day and you need to analyze this at that moment. We had one last week that broke down at 14.00 and refused to read any tape anymore. It was taken offline and repaired before the corresponding EREP reports were even generated. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
In a message dated 5/12/2006 2:37:17 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That is not entirely the same, reading EREP reports is done once a day at most and a unit can start swapping at some point during the day and you need to analyze this at that moment. We had one last week that broke down at 14.00 and refused to read any tape Yeah I guess. Used to be a science to predictive behaviour and preventative maintenance. Think CE's used HONE for tracking and depot inventory was partially based on machine type and error rate. All disposable these days. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
No, not necessarily, it could well be a bad head on a unit. Or a previous bad tape that polluted the head, resulting in I/O errors on subsequent tapes. Believe me, causes of creeping datachecks are a nightmare to tackle. Kees. Hal Merritt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... The root issue is bad tapes in your inventory. Get rid of them. Then the prompts go away, costs go down, things go faster, management is happier, your 'operators' are happier, life is better. My $0.02 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional? ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
More important than automating the swap message is investigating the cause of the I/O errors. If the errors are occuring mostly one or a few drives, they may need maintenance. It may be adequate to clean them regularly. If not, you may need to get your tape drive vendor in to analyze the errors and investigate the cause. -- Bruce Black Senior Software Developer Innovation Data Processing -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
In a message dated 5/11/2006 9:32:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: More important than automating the swap message is investigating the cause of the I/O errors. Don't we run EREP anymore? There's a nice summary of temps and perms for each device in the history profile. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
Ed, Like you, I also haven't seen a full time operator in about 7 years. As I recall from the last job were I worked with the operations staff, you really can't automate the DDR SWAP messages because the tape currently on the bad device will need to be mounted on the new device in order to be processed. Like you, I would most likely reply no, let the job abend, then restart the backup. If it commonly occurs on the same device, it may be time for some PM. Wayne Driscoll Product Developer JME Software LLC NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional? We run tape backups from TSM and HSM every day. Once in a while, some sort of I/O error occurs. This morning it was: *IEC501A M 1502,PRIVAT,SL,NOCOMP,TIVSM,TIVSM,TIVSM.BFS IAT5918 MVS60JES3V1R 1502, , , , ,PRIVAT IEC705I TAPE ON 1502,A00118,SL,NOCOMP,TIVSM,TIVSM,TIVSM.BFS,MEDIA3 IAT5918 MVS60JES3V1R 1502, , , , ,A00118 IEC271I MESSAGE DISPLAY 'A00118' ON 1502 ISSUED BY JOB TIVSM IOS000I 1502,13,IOE,01,0600,,**,A00118,TIVSM 856 0A4414D050405050 0001FF00 0303023539335490 4B042300B18B1315 WRITE ERROR DETECTED *IGF500I SWAP 1502 TO 1500 - I/O ERROR *0934 IGF500D REPLY 'YES', DEVICE, OR 'NO' Unlike most of you reading this, we don't have professional operators. Rather, we have employees doing other jobs that inspect the console from time-to-time and try to resolve any issues that might arise. Every time a DDR SWAP is requested like this, they unilaterally reply NO -- which fails the in-progress operation without giving the system a chance to recover. Clearly, there is some fear, uncertainty, and doubt about what a DDR SWAP is and what it might do if allowed to continue. (Consequently, I've never actually seen one complete! I would probably specify YES and see what happens. But that's just me...) Question: Is the response to IGF500D something I can/should automate? Is it safe to unconditionally respond YES? Is there any reason I shouldn't? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
Wayne Driscoll wrote: Ed, Like you, I also haven't seen a full time operator in about 7 years. As I recall from the last job were I worked with the operations staff, you really can't automate the DDR SWAP messages because the tape currently on the bad device will need to be mounted on the new device in order to be processed. Like you, I would most likely reply no, let the job abend, then restart the backup. If it commonly occurs on the same device, it may be time for some PM. So you recommend I automate the reply to NO? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
As I recall from the last job were I worked with the operations staff, you really can't automate the DDR SWAP messages because the tape currently on the bad device will need to be mounted on the new device in order to be processed. Repeat after me: Automated Tape Systems! - -teD O-KAY! BLUE! JAYS! Let's PLAY! BALL! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
Edward Jaffe wrote: We run tape backups from TSM and HSM every day. Once in a while, some sort of I/O error occurs. This morning it was: *IEC501A M 1502,PRIVAT,SL,NOCOMP,TIVSM,TIVSM,TIVSM.BFS IAT5918 MVS60JES3V1R 1502, , , , ,PRIVAT IEC705I TAPE ON 1502,A00118,SL,NOCOMP,TIVSM,TIVSM,TIVSM.BFS,MEDIA3 IAT5918 MVS60JES3V1R 1502, , , , ,A00118 IEC271I MESSAGE DISPLAY 'A00118' ON 1502 ISSUED BY JOB TIVSM IOS000I 1502,13,IOE,01,0600,,**,A00118,TIVSM 856 0A4414D050405050 0001FF00 0303023539335490 4B042300B18B1315 WRITE ERROR DETECTED *IGF500I SWAP 1502 TO 1500 - I/O ERROR *0934 IGF500D REPLY 'YES', DEVICE, OR 'NO' Unlike most of you reading this, we don't have professional operators. Rather, we have employees doing other jobs that inspect the console from time-to-time and try to resolve any issues that might arise. Every time a DDR SWAP is requested like this, they unilaterally reply NO -- which fails the in-progress operation without giving the system a chance to recover. Clearly, there is some fear, uncertainty, and doubt about what a DDR SWAP is and what it might do if allowed to continue. (Consequently, I've never actually seen one complete! I would probably specify YES and see what happens. But that's just me...) Question: Is the response to IGF500D something I can/should automate? Is it safe to unconditionally respond YES? Is there any reason I shouldn't? If you are always going to reply NO, you can issue a SWAP OFF command (the abreviation for SWAP is G so G OFF will work). This will disable swap, and you will not get any replys. If you don't have operators, you might not want to automatically reply YES, unless you have a robot mounting tapes. The tape will have to be moved from the current drive to the new drive. At least at one time this would hang allocation untill the swap was complete. Also, if you automate it you need to check for repeated swaps of the same tape. Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 11:47 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: Question: Is the response to IGF500D something I can/should automate? Is it safe to unconditionally respond YES? Is there any reason I shouldn't? You can probably automate a yes if you limit it to a single swap. Once upon a time... a LONG time ago... DDR used to play merry hell with allocation. While a swap was in progress allocation would hang; I presume that this has been fixed sometime in the last quarter century, but I haven't paid much attention. Swap also monopolized the tape controller during repositioning, so if you had other tape drives hung off the same controller they would stop during DDR. Maybe this has been fixed too -- we've had controller-per-drive transports for quite a few years now. -- David Andrews A. Duda and Sons, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
This Write - I/O - error most likely resulted from a dirty red/write head on the tape drive. On my system with rather finicky 3590 - drives, usually a SWAP will be successful and that will allow the process to finish. Our operators usually handle the swap correctly. IMHO, you should instruct your operators to reply YES and make a note of the tape VOLSER. If the same VOLSER comes up for another swap on the new drive, reply NO, as this very well might be a physically bad tape cartridge. If you don't have operators, or if they don't respond in a timely fashion, you might want to consider turning off the SWAP function (put a SWAP OFF command into PARMLIB member IEACMDxx or COMMNDxx or enter it as a console command). That'll blow the tape right out of the drive, without operator intervention and without loss of time. Regards, Ulrich Krueger Mainframe Systems Services National Semiconductor Corp. Santa Clara, CA 95051 Tel: (408) 721-8071 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 05/10/2006 11:47:17 AM: We run tape backups from TSM and HSM every day. Once in a while, some sort of I/O error occurs. This morning it was: *IEC501A M 1502,PRIVAT,SL,NOCOMP,TIVSM,TIVSM,TIVSM.BFS IAT5918 MVS60JES3V1R 1502, , , , ,PRIVAT IEC705I TAPE ON 1502,A00118,SL,NOCOMP,TIVSM,TIVSM,TIVSM.BFS,MEDIA3 IAT5918 MVS60JES3V1R 1502, , , , ,A00118 IEC271I MESSAGE DISPLAY 'A00118' ON 1502 ISSUED BY JOB TIVSM IOS000I 1502,13,IOE,01,0600,,**,A00118,TIVSM 856 0A4414D050405050 0001FF00 0303023539335490 4B042300B18B1315 WRITE ERROR DETECTED *IGF500I SWAP 1502 TO 1500 - I/O ERROR *0934 IGF500D REPLY 'YES', DEVICE, OR 'NO' Unlike most of you reading this, we don't have professional operators. Rather, we have employees doing other jobs that inspect the console from time-to-time and try to resolve any issues that might arise. Every time a DDR SWAP is requested like this, they unilaterally reply NO -- which fails the in-progress operation without giving the system a chance to recover. Clearly, there is some fear, uncertainty, and doubt about what a DDR SWAP is and what it might do if allowed to continue. (Consequently, I've never actually seen one complete! I would probably specify YES and see what happens. But that's just me...) Question: Is the response to IGF500D something I can/should automate? Is it safe to unconditionally respond YES? Is there any reason I shouldn't? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
Ulrich Krueger wrote: [snip] If you don't have operators, or if they don't respond in a timely fashion, you might want to consider turning off the SWAP function (put a SWAP OFF command into PARMLIB member IEACMDxx or COMMNDxx or enter it as a console command). That'll blow the tape right out of the drive, without operator intervention and without loss of time. Thanks for all of the responses -- both on- and off-list! We don't have real operators, so I put 'SWAP OFF' into COMMNDxx. If we ever get an automated tape library, I'll remove that command and automate a YES response to the IGF500D. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
The root issue is bad tapes in your inventory. Get rid of them. Then the prompts go away, costs go down, things go faster, management is happier, your 'operators' are happier, life is better. My $0.02 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional? We run tape backups from TSM and HSM every day. Once in a while, some sort of I/O error occurs. This morning it was: -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
You could try one reply of DEVICE using the same device number as the error occurred on, sometimes that will work, but you might still need to remount the tape. We still have at least one operator (they may more attention to the network and open boxes than z/OS), but DDR SWAP does work and sometimes the i/o error causing dirt isn't there next time. Dave Gibney [EMAIL PROTECTED] System Programmer(509) 335-7359 Information Technology Washington State University Pullman, WA 99164-1222 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional? Ulrich Krueger wrote: [snip] If you don't have operators, or if they don't respond in a timely fashion, you might want to consider turning off the SWAP function (put a SWAP OFF command into PARMLIB member IEACMDxx or COMMNDxx or enter it as a console command). That'll blow the tape right out of the drive, without operator intervention and without loss of time. Thanks for all of the responses -- both on- and off-list! We don't have real operators, so I put 'SWAP OFF' into COMMNDxx. If we ever get an automated tape library, I'll remove that command and automate a YES response to the IGF500D. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
usually the root issue is the bad tapes. That is why I prefer to have the DDR swap take place. If the system chokes on the tape the second time around, the tape gets pitched. I see your $.02 and raise you another $.01. :-) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:03 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional? The root issue is bad tapes in your inventory. Get rid of them. Then the prompts go away, costs go down, things go faster, management is happier, your 'operators' are happier, life is better. My $0.02 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional? We run tape backups from TSM and HSM every day. Once in a while, some sort of I/O error occurs. This morning it was: -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
Hal Merritt wrote: The root issue is bad tapes in your inventory. Get rid of them. Then the prompts go away, costs go down, things go faster, management is happier, your 'operators' are happier, life is better. In this case, all that was needed was an insertion of the cleaning cartridge ... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DDR Swap - Yes or No? Unconditional?
Ah, but into which orifice you insert it makes all the difference. snip In this case, all that was needed was an insertion of the cleaning cartridge ... /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
