Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 11 May 2010 13:31:25 +0100, Sam Siegel wrote:
>
>Using current z/OS technology, just imaging the questions that would
>stream across this forum if there were 10,000,000 system programers
>and z/OS installations.  And everyone had unrestricted access to
>IBMUSER.
>
In Mac OS X, only users authorized by the administrator have access
to administrator facilities, not "everyone".

-- gil

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Sam Siegel]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht
 wrote:
> Timothy Sipples wrote:
>>Of course, I read those on-screen T&Cs very carefully and reviewed them
> with a lawyer
>
> I can't remember what software did this, but it requires you to SCROLL down
> the whole thing up to the very last line, then the 'Ok' is highlighted.
>
> Hope your lawyer did that for free? ;-D
>
>> and as a one-way trip.
>
> Just curious, does that mac has a thing similar to windoze thing called 
> 'System
> Restore' useful to track and reverse harmful changes?
>
>>Time to go check whether iTunes did any damage. :-)
>
> Yeah, stay tuned! ;-D

Just remember these are operating systems / products with an install
base counted in the millions.

Using current z/OS technology, just imaging the questions that would
stream across this forum if there were 10,000,000 system programers
and z/OS installations.  And everyone had unrestricted access to
IBMUSER.


>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Dick de Groot]

I have done more then one migration from z/OS where the version differences
were more then 3-4.
Order a starter system and do the installation seperate from the other
volumes (no disk sharing)
Pay special attention to security (racf), Open Edition and SMS. When
migrating to the new release make a new copy of the RACF database and
reinstall the changes or use racf tools to copy the (changed) passwords and
new defined userid's to the new database.


2010/3/9 Steve Dover 

> I am hoping for some 'guidance' from the experience on this site.  I am
> working
> at one of those 'small shops' that have been discussed on here recently.
>  In or
> around 2000, installed 7060-H70 (2 cps, 2 GB storage).  When I started here
> (the first time) had just finished upgrade to OS/390 V2.9.  I upgrade
> within 18
> months to V2.10.  Then CIO decided we were moving everything to SAP.
> Mainframe would be dead within 5 years (that would have been around 2007).
> Short term plans were to upgrade OS to z/OS V1.4 and ride the box into the
> sunset.  Now it is 2010, SAP says that the number 1 application on
> mainframe
> will still be on mainframe for at least 5 more years, maybe forever.  So we
> are
> installing a new 2098 BC (K02, 2 cps, 8 GB memory) and z/OS V1.11.  New
> mainframe, new OS, and it will all be installed on new DASD.
>
> After reading a thread from May and June of 2007 (started I believe by John
> Matson), can I use the V1.4 OS to drive the install of the V1.11 OS on the
> new machine?  I did see in the thread issues with the USS space, but I have
> had USS issues before.  This is about as vanilla a shop as you can find.
>  CICS,
> no IMS, no DB2, we are using MQSeries and a very tiny bit of Java in USS.
>  I
> am going to order the customized offerings driver in case, but it sure
> seems
> like it would be a lot easier if I could use my existing Test LPAR to drive
> the
> install.  Once again, I will not be sharing anything, catalogs, JES Spool,
> anything.  Thoughts?
>
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>



-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten/With kind regards

Dick de Groot

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Timothy Sipples wrote:
>Of course, I read those on-screen T&Cs very carefully and reviewed them 
with a lawyer

I can't remember what software did this, but it requires you to SCROLL down 
the whole thing up to the very last line, then the 'Ok' is highlighted.

Hope your lawyer did that for free? ;-D

> and as a one-way trip.

Just curious, does that mac has a thing similar to windoze thing called 'System 
Restore' useful to track and reverse harmful changes? 

>Time to go check whether iTunes did any damage. :-)

Yeah, stay tuned! ;-D

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Timothy Sipples]

Just to reinforce this point, somehow my Mac today popped up a message box
asking me to agree to new Apple iTunes terms and conditions associated with
a point release update. Of course, I read those on-screen T&Cs very
carefully and reviewed them with a lawyer No, strike that. After
(blindly) clicking "Agree," iTunes started up. Then I saw a message which
said (exactly, or closely paraphrasing) "Updating Your iTunes Library."
Which iTunes proceeded to do, without prompting, and as a one-way trip.

This sort of behavior, if practiced routinely in the z/OS world, would make
most system programmers shudder. The new application (iTunes) completely
overwrites the old one, with no going back short of a full system restore?
You're out of production until you accept legal T&Cs, at gunpoint (so to
speak)? Then the application proceeds to do something unknown to your own
data, without asking and without any way to back out the changes? (System
programmer now shakes head.)

It is amazing how often most/all of the rest of the IT world pushes through
changes without much if any safety net. I suspect some Apple customers
today are quite upset because their Mac didn't successfully manage these
particular iTunes changes. It's probably at least hundreds of bewildered
Apple customers, even if that iTunes upgrade is 99.98% reliable.

But I think this difference in philosophy and difference in design teaches
some important lessons, and they may not be the ones you expect. Often
business users crave rapid change, to address real business problems
quickly. IT infrastructure and applications need to support multiple paces
of business change. I get concerned when we (IT people) forget that. z/OS
(and the mainframe) have the best tools and capabilities in the business to
manage rapid change, with quality results. (And to discriminate within the
enterprise, delivering the rapid change exactly where needed without
disrupting others.) But are we (IT people) taking maximum advantage of
those capabilities in business-appropriate ways? Too often, no, we're not.
And then businesspeople get very angry, because they're not getting their
cafeteria menu application updated within a week while the IT people plod
along making sure it's delivered in 6 months with 99.% assurance
("standard process") rather than the one week/99.7% it actually needs.

Anyway, I'm off on a bit of a digression, but let me just summarize by
saying that all these z/OS-unique change management features (and
associated organizational practices) shouldn't be used to slow down change.
That would be very bad. They're there to increase the odds of a successful
outcome when you change at the same pace as other platforms, or to
accelerate change significantly while delivering the same odds of a
successful outcome, or to make particular risky changes possible that would
be impossible elsewhere. And which mixture (pace of change/odds of
successful outcome) you choose should be flexible, chosen on a per
application basis. That's really how we should be operating but often
aren't. And that's why too many organizations are perpetually hauling in
"yet another box" to get things done.

Time to go check whether iTunes did any damage. :-)

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
Resident Architect (Based in Singapore)
STG Value Creation and Complex Deals Team
IBM Growth Markets
E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com
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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Rick Fochtman]

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:


In
,
on 05/07/2010
  at 10:36 AM, Pat Mihalec  said:

 


I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they
finally let me upgrade the software. 
   



Unless you have the tapes for intermediate releases in house, you have
no choice but to make the big jump. Put the necessary work into
planning and testing to minimize problems. Get everyone involved in
the testing.

 

I will add one more warning: be prepared to do some serious 
housecleaning. Sounds like it's going to be very necessary, to avoid 
problems caused by the "We've always done it that way" syndrome.


Rick

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Brian Westerman]

I had not thought about it that way but you're absolutely right.  

I have always tried to make it known that you didn't HAVE to upgrade within
IBM's 3 release rules, but it had completely escaped me how common it is for
the rest of the platforms.

Brian

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Timothy Sipples]

I may have pointed this out before, but, for perspective (and
oversimplifying only slightly) the entire rest of the IT world makes big OS
jumps *every* time they upgrade. The rigorous, vendor-supported
coexistence/fallback regimes available with z/OS release N to release N+1
or N+2 (and its middleware) has no direct analog elsewhere.

For example, Mac OS X is the world's most popular UNIX operating system, at
least when measured by the number of installations. Even a point release
installation, such as Mac OS X 10.6.2 to 10.6.3, is an irrevocable one-way
trip. Got a problem with 10.6.3? You've got two choices: (1) reinstall 10.6
then 10.6.2 from scratch, then restore; (2) tough it out.

Granted, Mac OS X probably isn't serving the business critical functions
that z/OS often does, but even so Apple just doesn't offer
coexistence/fallback. And they're not alone.

Anyway, the upgrade is well worth doing, and sometimes the "big jump" is
the best available option. Of course, please keep moving forward at a
reasonable pace. That doesn't mean you have to install the newest z/OS
release on the same day it's generally available (although that'd be just
fine), but "reasonably soon" is good.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
Resident Architect (Based in Singapore)
STG Value Creation and Complex Deals Team
IBM Growth Markets
E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com
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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 05/07/2010
   at 10:36 AM, Pat Mihalec  said:

>I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they
> finally let me upgrade the software. 

Unless you have the tapes for intermediate releases in house, you have
no choice but to make the big jump. Put the necessary work into
planning and testing to minimize problems. Get everyone involved in
the testing.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Shane Ginnane]

Yeahhh  that must be the reason.
Now why didn't I think of that ?.

Shane ...

On Sun, May 9th, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Brian Westerman wrote:

> I guess I'm just getting mellow. ;)

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Brian Westerman]

I guess I'm just getting mellow. ;)

Brian

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Shane Ginnane]

I'm surprised it took Brian so long to respond; he's constantly berating us 
that such "non (IBM) 
sanctioned" upgrades are fine if handled sensibly.

Just don't screw it up - guess whose private parts will be on the chopping 
block.
Can't really blame customers for being spooked about N+2.

Shane ...

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Brian Westerman]

Hi,

There is absolutely no reason to make multiple jumps, especially when you
can keep the environments contained as you had originally pointed out.  It's
a big jump, but no matter which point you picked for your jump point, it
would still be a large undertaking.  The good news is that it's been done
hundreds of times, (well, 1.4 to 1.10 has, but I've found that 1.11 doesn't
present any significant installation issues over 1.10).  

I would suggest that you do get the migration guides for the interim
releases and read the changes and procedures.  Keep notes and you WILL find
that some things are changed multiple times, in which case you might want to
think about all of the changes and prepare for things.

You didn't say what non-IBM vendors you had to worry about, and in most
cases, that's the biggest worry.

I've performed hundreds of upgrades and if you have any questions, please
feel free to ask.  One thing that you might have issues with (and this
doesn't matter how many releases you jumped), is that there are some changes
to the JES2 exits.  If you aren't using any of them, then you can skip my
warning. 


You can share catalogs and volumes, but if you are going to make a habit out
of it, them make sure you have GRS or a substitute to protect yourself.  If
it's a controlled sharing, then you won't have anything to worry about.  You
can share the RACF database as well, but I have found that it's normally
better to create a new one and fill parts of it from the old one instead of
just copying the whole thing.  it's not very difficult and it will allow you
to remove a lot of built up crud from the previous releases.  Since you are
keeping things in monoplexes, you don't have to worry about the Couple
datasets or anything.  Your SMS and WLM environments should be audited, but
only if you have been quite busy with those environments over the years
because there are some slight changes that can bite you, but again, it's
nothing major, nothing will die, you just might get some seemingly strange
results.

Your biggest obstacle will be taking advantage of all of the new stuff that
has been added to the system in the newer releases.  You may find that
things you had to do with vendor software are no longer necessary so be
mindful of whether or not you might really need the alternate vendor any more.

remember, while it seems like a big deal, it's really just like any other
upgrade, if you are careful and pay attention to the details, you will sail
right through it.

Brian

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[R.S.]

W dniu 2010-05-07 17:36, Pat Mihalec pisze:

I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they
finally let me upgrade the software.
I was wondering if anyone out there thinks this is a real bad idea. I can
isolate a test Lpar and DASD volumes to do this.
I would like some feed back on this idea.


In my humble opinion it is good idea, BUT you you HAVE TO BE careful.
However I don't recognize any known gotchas which guarantee failure.
If you have possiblity to clone your environment using Flashcopy or any 
other method then your can feel safe.

In my very hu,ble opinion you shoudn't find any problem with the following:
ICF catalogs
RACF db
parmlib members with the exception for TCPIP and TN3270 (it must be 
separate address space now)

ZFS multi filesystem aggregates (quite new, but rapidly dropped)
I could also suggest to offload SPOOL.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
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ul. Senatorska 18
00-950 Warszawa
www.brebank.pl

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Ted MacNEIL]

>...and did we not go from 32 bit to 64 bit addressing with 1.7...

I thought bi-modal capability went out with 1.6.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Donnelly, John P]

...and did we not go from 32 bit to 64 bit addressing with 1.7...


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Staller, Allan
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 10:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

With proper planning and execution, there should be no more issues
w/z/OS1.4 to z/OS 1.11 than any other OS upgrade, 
however there are so many changes in the interim (approx 6 years worth),
some of which may not be compatible w/each other, that it would be a
very good thing to peruse the migration manuals in detail for each
interim release.
(1.4-1.5, 1.5-1.6,). 

At least after a detailed perusal of the migration manuals, you will
know where the land mines are.

The same process also needs to be done for the ISV products (version
upgrade/compatibility check). I would suggest beginning this process
now, as it will probably take longer that the z/OS upgrade. My
observation has been that when the O/S is not upgraded regularly,
neither are the ISV products. There are also more likely to be can't get
to here from there issues.

The real issues are:
1) how do I cut over from old (z/OS 1.4/ISV) to new(z/OS
1.11/ISV)?  
2) I it fails miserably, how do I go back?

HTH,

<>
I have to update all of my software no matter what route I take. We just

thought if we could do the operating system 1 time, instead of 3 it
would 
take us less time.
Am I asking for more problems this way?
Read *ALL* of the migration guide's VERY VERY carefully!!

That is a big jump and you *may* have a lot of work to do on your
existing system to get everything ready for this. 
Some of that work may have to be done at conversion time.

Good Luck!



I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they 
finally let me upgrade the software. 
I was wondering if anyone out there thinks this is a real bad idea. I
can 
isolate a test Lpar and DASD volumes to do this.
I would like some feed back on this idea.

<>

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Staller, Allan]

With proper planning and execution, there should be no more issues
w/z/OS1.4 to z/OS 1.11 than any other OS upgrade, 
however there are so many changes in the interim (approx 6 years worth),
some of which may not be compatible w/each other, that it would be a
very good thing to peruse the migration manuals in detail for each
interim release.
(1.4-1.5, 1.5-1.6,). 

At least after a detailed perusal of the migration manuals, you will
know where the land mines are.

The same process also needs to be done for the ISV products (version
upgrade/compatibility check). I would suggest beginning this process
now, as it will probably take longer that the z/OS upgrade. My
observation has been that when the O/S is not upgraded regularly,
neither are the ISV products. There are also more likely to be can't get
to here from there issues.

The real issues are:
1) how do I cut over from old (z/OS 1.4/ISV) to new(z/OS
1.11/ISV)?  
2) I it fails miserably, how do I go back?

HTH,

<>
I have to update all of my software no matter what route I take. We just

thought if we could do the operating system 1 time, instead of 3 it
would 
take us less time.
Am I asking for more problems this way?
Read *ALL* of the migration guide's VERY VERY carefully!!

That is a big jump and you *may* have a lot of work to do on your
existing system to get everything ready for this. 
Some of that work may have to be done at conversion time.

Good Luck!



I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they 
finally let me upgrade the software. 
I was wondering if anyone out there thinks this is a real bad idea. I
can 
isolate a test Lpar and DASD volumes to do this.
I would like some feed back on this idea.

<>

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Pinnacle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Pat Mihalec" 

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11



I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they
finally let me upgrade the software.
I was wondering if anyone out there thinks this is a real bad idea. I can
isolate a test Lpar and DASD volumes to do this.
I would like some feed back on this idea.



Pat,

This is not a bad idea, it's how you do it.  Take a look at my Unsupported 
Migration Paths presentation that I gave at SHARE.  It's on my web site 
below.


Regards,
Thomas Conley, President/CEO
Pinnacle Consulting Group, Inc.
59 Applewood Drive
Rochester, NY  14612-3501
P:  (585)720-0012
F:  (585)723-3713
http://home.roadrunner.com/~pinncons/

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Pat Mihalec]

I have to update all of my software no matter what route I take. We just 
thought if we could do the operating system 1 time, instead of 3 it would 
take us less time.
Am I asking for more problems this way?


Pat Mihalec
Rush University Medical Center
Senior System Programmer
(312) 942-8386
pat_miha...@rush.edu
P   Please consider the environment before printing this email.



From:
"Staller, Allan" 
To:
IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date:
05/07/2010 10:58 AM
Subject:
Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11
Sent by:
IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



Read *ALL* of the migration guide's VERY VERY carefully!!

That is a big jump and you *may* have a lot of work to do on your
existing system to get everything ready for this. 
Some of that work may have to be done at conversion time.

Good Luck!



I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they 
finally let me upgrade the software. 
I was wondering if anyone out there thinks this is a real bad idea. I
can 
isolate a test Lpar and DASD volumes to do this.
I would like some feed back on this idea.


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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Staller, Allan]

Read *ALL* of the migration guide's VERY VERY carefully!!

That is a big jump and you *may* have a lot of work to do on your
existing system to get everything ready for this. 
Some of that work may have to be done at conversion time.

Good Luck!



I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they 
finally let me upgrade the software. 
I was wondering if anyone out there thinks this is a real bad idea. I
can 
isolate a test Lpar and DASD volumes to do this.
I would like some feed back on this idea.


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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Pat Mihalec]

I am running z/OS 1.4 and think of just jumping to z/OS 1.11, if they 
finally let me upgrade the software. 
I was wondering if anyone out there thinks this is a real bad idea. I can 
isolate a test Lpar and DASD volumes to do this.
I would like some feed back on this idea.

Thanks,


Pat Mihalec
Rush University Medical Center
Senior System Programmer
(312) 942-8386
pat_miha...@rush.edu
P   Please consider the environment before printing this email.



From:
"Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)" 
To:
IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date:
03/12/2010 07:43 AM
Subject:
Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11
Sent by:
IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



In , on 03/09/2010
   at 08:10 AM, Steve Dover  said:

>After reading a thread from May and June of 2007 (started I believe by
>John  Matson), can I use the V1.4 OS to drive the install of the V1.11 OS
>on the new machine?

You're facing several issues. You'll need a new SMP/E for sure. IBM claims
that you need the COD (driver system), and may not support you if you run
into problems driving the install from z/OS 1.4. They might be using new
facilities in, e.g., ISPF, for the CPAC dialogs.

>I did see in the thread issues with the USS space, but I have  had USS
>issues before.

ITYM Unix; USS is something different. The big issue will be that they are
pushing us towards zFS and you may want to switch everything even if it is
not required. Also, pay close attention to the setup for *FS sharing.

Read the migration documentation, especially with regard to TCP/IP.

Go over your operator instructions; there are new commands and address
spaces to worry about.

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see <http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html> 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In , on 03/09/2010
   at 08:10 AM, Steve Dover  said:

>After reading a thread from May and June of 2007 (started I believe by
>John  Matson), can I use the V1.4 OS to drive the install of the V1.11 OS
>on the new machine?

You're facing several issues. You'll need a new SMP/E for sure. IBM claims
that you need the COD (driver system), and may not support you if you run
into problems driving the install from z/OS 1.4. They might be using new
facilities in, e.g., ISPF, for the CPAC dialogs.

>I did see in the thread issues with the USS space, but I have  had USS
>issues before.

ITYM Unix; USS is something different. The big issue will be that they are
pushing us towards zFS and you may want to switch everything even if it is
not required. Also, pay close attention to the setup for *FS sharing.

Read the migration documentation, especially with regard to TCP/IP.

Go over your operator instructions; there are new commands and address
spaces to worry about.

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[R.S.]

There is no need to run olde system on new CPC or vice versa.
It is possible to install new system on new CPC using COD (driver system 
from IBM). The only requirement is to connect existing DASD box to the 
new CPC.
The rest is IMHO piece of cake. Or rather: not much harder than regular 
supported migration.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


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ul. Senatorska 18
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BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone.

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Brian Westerman]

Hi,

You can convert directly from z/OS 1.4 to 1.11, and I have done it several
times so far since September, but the problem for you is the platforms you
are dealing with.  There is a chart (which is not 100% correct, but very
close) at
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/support/zos_server_support.html 
(sorry for the wrap).

Your in that sort of in-between area hardware-wise.  Your MP3K will only
support up to z/OS 1.5 without a lot of help, and the z/10 doesn't reach
down that low without a lot of work.  The IBM "official" line is that only
1.7 will run on a z/10 with the lifecycle extension, and while it isn't
completely true, it doesn't really help you in this case.

The short answer to your question is no.  You cannot run z/OS 1.4 native on
a z/10 BC.  In actual testing I have found that you can initially IPL the
OS, but you won't get very far.  You can do it on a Z/9, but the support
wasn't provided to the z/10 BC.

You can however run it under z/VM, or you can get the driver system
(suggested).  If you will have your old Multiprise processor around for a
while then there are some things you can do to make life easier for you
conversion-wise. 

If you want to talk about it, please feel free to contact me offline and I
can go over the steps that will be necessary for you.

Brian Westerman

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[John Mattson]

Steve.  My suggestions would be: 
1) Get a "driving system" from IBM, I believe it is free. Install it, 
takes only 1 or 2 packs of 3390-9.  Logon and do your serverpac from 
there.  This assumes you have a sandbox lpar.  This is really much less 
hassle than it looks at first.  Really all you are doing is one of the 
options for a first install of zOS. 
2) OR get the most current level of SMP your current system will support 
as a CBPDO.  Install it and then try your "jump to lightspeed" with the 
serverpac.  There will probably be a couple of "gotcha's", but my 
experience is that they can usually be worked around.  Your goal is to IPL 
and logon to your new system.  Once you get there, anything can be worked 
around. 

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Ed Finnell]

 
In a message dated 3/9/2010 12:59:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
pinnc...@rochester.rr.com writes:

paths.  I've done an OS/390 V2R10 to z/OS V1R8 upgrade.   Let me know if 
you 
have any questions or concerns.


>>
Might be useful to write a bid. We want  the following:
 
1)Software upgrade to current
2)hardware upgrade to current
3)DASD upgrade to support nn  Tbytes



Whatever you desires are. In the process  ISVs usually will throw in
SystemPAC or 1yr software freebies to  assist the conversion. Also,
conversion assistance at Market rates with  extensions.
 
It's also a good time to negotiate long  term maintenance agreements
for hardware and software.



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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Pinnacle]

- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Dover" 

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:10 AM
Subject: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11


I am hoping for some 'guidance' from the experience on this site.  I am 
working
at one of those 'small shops' that have been discussed on here recently. 
In or
around 2000, installed 7060-H70 (2 cps, 2 GB storage).  When I started 
here
(the first time) had just finished upgrade to OS/390 V2.9.  I upgrade 
within 18

months to V2.10.  Then CIO decided we were moving everything to SAP.
Mainframe would be dead within 5 years (that would have been around 2007).
Short term plans were to upgrade OS to z/OS V1.4 and ride the box into the
sunset.  Now it is 2010, SAP says that the number 1 application on 
mainframe
will still be on mainframe for at least 5 more years, maybe forever.  So 
we are

installing a new 2098 BC (K02, 2 cps, 8 GB memory) and z/OS V1.11.  New
mainframe, new OS, and it will all be installed on new DASD.

After reading a thread from May and June of 2007 (started I believe by 
John

Matson), can I use the V1.4 OS to drive the install of the V1.11 OS on the
new machine?  I did see in the thread issues with the USS space, but I 
have
had USS issues before.  This is about as vanilla a shop as you can find. 
CICS,
no IMS, no DB2, we are using MQSeries and a very tiny bit of Java in USS. 
I
am going to order the customized offerings driver in case, but it sure 
seems
like it would be a lot easier if I could use my existing Test LPAR to 
drive the

install.  Once again, I will not be sharing anything, catalogs, JES Spool,
anything.  Thoughts?



Steve,

Check out my web site below for my SHARE presentation on unsupported upgrade 
paths.  I've done an OS/390 V2R10 to z/OS V1R8 upgrade.  Let me know if you 
have any questions or concerns.


Regards,
Thomas Conley, President/CEO
Pinnacle Consulting Group, Inc.
59 Applewood Drive
Rochester, NY  14612-3501
P:  (585)720-0012
F:  (585)723-3713
http://home.roadrunner.com/~pinncons/

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Edward Jaffe]

Steve Dover wrote:
I am hoping for some 'guidance' from the experience on this site.  I am working 
at one of those 'small shops' that have been discussed on here recently.  In or 
around 2000, installed 7060-H70 (2 cps, 2 GB storage).  When I started here 
(the first time) had just finished upgrade to OS/390 V2.9.  I upgrade within 18 
months to V2.10.  Then CIO decided we were moving everything to SAP.  
Mainframe would be dead within 5 years (that would have been around 2007).  
Short term plans were to upgrade OS to z/OS V1.4 and ride the box into the 
sunset.  Now it is 2010, SAP says that the number 1 application on mainframe 
will still be on mainframe for at least 5 more years, maybe forever.  So we are 
installing a new 2098 BC (K02, 2 cps, 8 GB memory) and z/OS V1.11.  New 
mainframe, new OS, and it will all be installed on new DASD. 
  


Are you coming to SHARE in Seattle? This session should be of great 
interest to you:


Session 2237: Managing z/OS Replacements Outside the Three Year Window
Wednesday, March 17 3:00 PM
Speaker: Brian Westerman (Syzygy)

During this session, the speaker will be showing comparisons of the 
various methods of conversion from unsupported operating system 
releases, comparing the effort and cost required to perform internally 
and via an external consultant. He will point out some of what he calls 
'pitfalls' in the IBM supported method that most people do not see and 
help quantify the collateral effort in extra testing, and extra 
involvement of users in the testing effort, if you attempt to quick step 
multiple release migrations to catch up. Lastly, he will provide 
comparisons of the time he found was required to jump between various 
releases: 1.4 to 1.10, 1.5 to 1.9, 1.7 to 1.10, 1.8 to 1.9, OS/390 2.7 
to 2.9 to z/OS 1.9, etcetera. The knowledge and insight this speaker 
will provide should be useful to any system programmer, even those lucky 
enough to have never been asked to upgrade from an unsupported operating 
system release.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Mary Anne Matyaz]

Steve, 
Your story is a familiar one. :) 

Unless someone on this list has actually done a 1.11 install with a 1.4 system, 
you're not likely to get a definitive answer. It's basically a crap shoot, you 
have a 50/50 shot of it working. The problem areas will likely be SMP/E and the 
installation dialogs (ISPF, SCEERUN, etc). 
Your plan to order the driver system is a good one. All you can do at that 
point is take a shot at installing from your normal system, and if it doesn't 
work, use the driver as plan b. 
The other option is to order a Systempac, which will come as a full volume 
dump restore, so you wouldn't have to worry about the install. That is a cost 
item, it used to be around 14-16K, but could save you a lot of hassle. 

Good Luck, 
Mary Anne

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Re: Migrating from z/OS V1.4 to z/OS V1.11

[Donald Johnson]

I can't answer about the process, but one area to keep an eye on is the
definition of Key 8 storage, which IBM have been parameter controlling since
1.8. You will want to consider the option ALLOWUSERKEYCSA in your
YS1.PARMLIB(DIAGxx), whichdefaults to NO. This might cause some problems for
certain applications that used the shared feature of Key8 before.

Don

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Steve Dover  wrote:

> I am hoping for some 'guidance' from the experience on this site.  I am
> working
> at one of those 'small shops' that have been discussed on here recently.
>  In or
> around 2000, installed 7060-H70 (2 cps, 2 GB storage).  When I started here
> (the first time) had just finished upgrade to OS/390 V2.9.  I upgrade
> within 18
> months to V2.10.  Then CIO decided we were moving everything to SAP.
> Mainframe would be dead within 5 years (that would have been around 2007).
> Short term plans were to upgrade OS to z/OS V1.4 and ride the box into the
> sunset.  Now it is 2010, SAP says that the number 1 application on
> mainframe
> will still be on mainframe for at least 5 more years, maybe forever.  So we
> are
> installing a new 2098 BC (K02, 2 cps, 8 GB memory) and z/OS V1.11.  New
> mainframe, new OS, and it will all be installed on new DASD.
>
> After reading a thread from May and June of 2007 (started I believe by John
> Matson), can I use the V1.4 OS to drive the install of the V1.11 OS on the
> new machine?  I did see in the thread issues with the USS space, but I have
> had USS issues before.  This is about as vanilla a shop as you can find.
>  CICS,
> no IMS, no DB2, we are using MQSeries and a very tiny bit of Java in USS.
>  I
> am going to order the customized offerings driver in case, but it sure
> seems
> like it would be a lot easier if I could use my existing Test LPAR to drive
> the
> install.  Once again, I will not be sharing anything, catalogs, JES Spool,
> anything.  Thoughts?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
>

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