Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Aled Hughes]

Ray,
I quote a very wise man in Los Angeles:
'It's funny how IBM announcements often seem to generate more questions than 
they answer.'

So true!
ALH


-Original Message-
From: Ray Mullins 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 1:32
Subject: Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License


On 2012-04-24 23:36, Edward Jaffe wrote:
 The "march" toward a personal use z/OS license takes another step forward ...

 http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS212-145/ENUS212-145.PDF

 "... Additionally, the [Rational Developer and Test Environment for System z]
 product can now be purchased as a stand-alone entry point into the Rational
 development solutions for System z. This lowers the cost of initial purchase,
 opening the environment for use by developers, testers, and operations
 personnel, and provides an easier path to adoption for traditional mainframe
 developers looking to modernize their development and test processes
 and infrastructure."
This is progress. And if Robert Cringley's predictions about IBM's future 
opefully are wrong, this is promising to basement/mom & pop developers.
But does RDTESz (or whatever you want as the acronym) also support z/VSE and 
/VM for developers? (Yes, I know, I can download the "trial" z/VM and 
ury-rig it under Hercules...)

- 
. Ray Mullins
oseville, CA, USA
ttp://www.catherdersoftware.com/
German is essentially a form of assembly language consisting entirely of far 
alls heavily accented with throaty guttural sounds. ---ilvi
rench is essentially German with messed-up pronunciation and spelling. 
-Robert B Wilson
nglish is essentially French converted to 7-bit ASCII.  ---Christophe 
ierret [for Alain LaBonté]
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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Alvaro Guirao Lopez]

zPDT also supports z/VM and you can make up 2 z/OS images in Paralell
Sysplex (I don't know if there are "coupling" emulated)

But I think that RDTESz doesn't provide this possibility, I'm asking IBM.

2012/4/27 Ray Mullins 

> On 2012-04-24 23:36, Edward Jaffe wrote:
>
>> The "march" toward a personal use z/OS license takes another step forward
>> ...
>>
>> http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/**rep_ca/5/897/ENUS212-145/**
>> ENUS212-145.PDF
>>
>> "... Additionally, the [Rational Developer and Test Environment for
>> System z]
>> product can now be purchased as a stand-alone entry point into the
>> Rational
>> development solutions for System z. This lowers the cost of initial
>> purchase,
>> opening the environment for use by developers, testers, and operations
>> personnel, and provides an easier path to adoption for traditional
>> mainframe
>> developers looking to modernize their development and test processes
>> and infrastructure."
>>
>
> This is progress. And if Robert Cringley's predictions about IBM's future
> hopefully are wrong, this is promising to basement/mom & pop developers.
>
> But does RDTESz (or whatever you want as the acronym) also support z/VSE
> and z/VM for developers? (Yes, I know, I can download the "trial" z/VM and
> jury-rig it under Hercules...)
>
>
> --
> M. Ray Mullins
> Roseville, CA, USA
> http://www.catherdersoftware.**com/ 
>
> German is essentially a form of assembly language consisting entirely of
> far calls heavily accented with throaty guttural sounds. ---ilvi
> French is essentially German with messed-up pronunciation and spelling.
> --Robert B Wilson
> English is essentially French converted to 7-bit ASCII.  ---Christophe
> Pierret [for Alain LaBonté]
>
>
> --**--**--
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>



-- 
Un saludo.
Álvaro Guirao

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Ray Mullins]

On 2012-04-24 23:36, Edward Jaffe wrote:

The "march" toward a personal use z/OS license takes another step forward ...

http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS212-145/ENUS212-145.PDF

"... Additionally, the [Rational Developer and Test Environment for System z]
product can now be purchased as a stand-alone entry point into the Rational
development solutions for System z. This lowers the cost of initial purchase,
opening the environment for use by developers, testers, and operations
personnel, and provides an easier path to adoption for traditional mainframe
developers looking to modernize their development and test processes
and infrastructure."


This is progress. And if Robert Cringley's predictions about IBM's future 
hopefully are wrong, this is promising to basement/mom & pop developers.


But does RDTESz (or whatever you want as the acronym) also support z/VSE and 
z/VM for developers? (Yes, I know, I can download the "trial" z/VM and 
jury-rig it under Hercules...)



--
M. Ray Mullins
Roseville, CA, USA
http://www.catherdersoftware.com/

German is essentially a form of assembly language consisting entirely of far 
calls heavily accented with throaty guttural sounds. ---ilvi
French is essentially German with messed-up pronunciation and spelling. 
--Robert B Wilson
English is essentially French converted to 7-bit ASCII.  ---Christophe 
Pierret [for Alain LaBonté]


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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Linda]

Hi Joel,

Ditto what others have said about using a cable.

You might try win7 compatibility mode for the software you mentioned. I have 
had good success with it so far. 

HTH,

Linda

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2012, at 8:43 AM, "Joel C. Ewing"  wrote:

> On 04/25/2012 09:38 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
>> Pardon me if I misinterpreted, but your very short responses, each followed 
>> by a period, said "each of these is an issue for me".
>> 
>> Perhaps I need more coffee before I write such a question... :)
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf 
>> Of Paul Gilmartin
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:30 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>> Subject: Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License
>> 
>> On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:19:19 -0400, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
>> 
>>> I'll grant you the dongle issue (but it's probably unavoidable) and 
>>> possibly the APAR submission issue (which can be anything from a non-issue 
>>> to a business killer), but why is Linux/Intel hosting a problem to you 
>>> rather than a solution?
>>> 
>>> Just curious.
>>> 
>> Who used the word "problem" or "issue"?
>> --
> ...
> 
> A dongle definitely could be an issue for some.  Might be less of an issue on 
> Linux, but my experiences on Windoze has been less than ideal and makes me 
> regard any application that requires a dongle as more of a gamble.  While the 
> dongle may be regarded as "nice license insurance" from the software vendors 
> standpoint, it is essentially just another point of failure for the user and 
> lowers the value of the product.
> 
> My wife has some very expensive Embroidery software that requires a dongle.  
> The license does entitle her to run the software on multiple platforms, both 
> her laptop and desktop, since the dongle prevents concurrent use. After a 
> year or so the dongle case became too loose to remove the dongle from the USB 
> port - the only way now is grasp and pull the dongle base with a pair of 
> needle-nose pliers, which works, but is certainly not the advertised 
> convenience. The only "support" provided by the application vendor to remedy 
> this situation is to re-purchase the software at full price to get a new 
> dongle.
> 
> Other than using standard Windows GUI interfaces, this software does nothing 
> that special at the Operating System level, except for the dongle support 
> that requires a hardware driver written by yet a different vendor.  Logic 
> would suggest that this application should be able to migrate from Win XP to 
> Win 7 without a problem, provided one can find support for the dongle on Win 
> 7.  My initial attempts to migrate have so far failed because the dongle 
> vendor's current drivers for Win 7 are not compatible with the older version 
> dongle that came with the application.  I haven't given up, but unless I can 
> locate a compatible driver that is also compatible with Win 7 this expensive 
> application is toast on Win 7.  A nice result for the application vendor if 
> I'm forced to do an otherwise unnecessary upgrade at great cost, but from the 
> user's standpoint this is a very poor outcome, apparently forced by the 
> decision to require a dongle.
> 
> -- 
> Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org
> 
> --
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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Mark Post]

>>> On 4/25/2012 at 10:55 AM, Alvaro Guirao Lopez  
>>> wrote: 
> No, I'm saying that if you want some support for Linux OS you might
> purchase Red Hat.

>From the PDF document:
Software requirements
Rational Development and Test Environment for System z requires the following
minimum levels of Linux:
* SUSE Linux Enterprise Server version 11.2
* OpenSUSE version 11.2
* Red Hat Enterprise Linux version 6.0 or 6.1

You can purchase a subscription, with or without support, for SUSE Linux 
Enterprise Server as well as Red Hat Enterprise Linux.


Mark Post

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Bruno Sugliani]

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:51:22 -0500, Elardus Engelbrecht 
 wrote:

>Or just lose it, then come back and we can have a nice war story thread... :-)
>
>No, it is not funny despite my comment above. If you have 'sensitive', 
>'bread-and-butter', 'life-death' software on which your company needs to 
>'live' and some *sshole 'lost' it, it is not fun trying to convince the vendor 
>to supply another dongle. (Been there and got a filthy t-shirt with invoice 
>printed on it from that stupid vendor... - figuratively speaking of course :-D 
>)
>

>Groete / Greetings
>Elardus Engelbrecht
>
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Shocking ! 
You do not put sensitive or bread and butter software on a client machine  
You put it on a server in a secure room 
Please do not confuse again a windows workstation with a windows server 
And we do not put dongle on blade servers or pizza servers ( generally it is 
not even possible) . 
I had forbidden to buy any software using hardware dongle and I know I was not 
the only one. 
And there is no way you could change my mind on that matter  
Bruno Sugliani ( Now retired :-)) ) 
zxnetconsult(at)free(dot(fr) 

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[McKown, John]

"Run protection". And it likely encodes a unique CPU serial number so that you 
cannot "pirate" any licensed software from work, like any CA products, which 
almost all require CARIM to run to install the "execution allowed" restrictions.

-- 
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

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proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
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MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:59 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License
> 
> Yep dongles are not fool proof, then can break...it's 
> hardware..I don't get the reason for dongles..
> 
> 
> Scott Ford
> Senior Systems Engineer
> www.identityforge.com
> 
> 

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Scott Ford wrote:
>Yep dongles are not fool proof, then can break...it's hardware..I don't get 
>the reason for dongles..

Or just lose it, then come back and we can have a nice war story thread... :-)

No, it is not funny despite my comment above. If you have 'sensitive', 
'bread-and-butter', 'life-death' software on which your company needs to 'live' 
and some *sshole 'lost' it, it is not fun trying to convince the vendor to 
supply another dongle. (Been there and got a filthy t-shirt with invoice 
printed on it from that stupid vendor... - figuratively speaking of course :-D )


Joel C. Ewing wrote:
> the only way now is grasp and pull the dongle base with a pair of needle-nose 
> pliers, which works, but is certainly not the advertised convenience. 

Yuck! Thats defect by design!!!

>The only "support" provided by the application vendor to remedy this situation 
>is to re-purchase the software at full price to get a new dongle.

See my rant above. Maybe if I'm big and rich, I want to be such a scamming 
vendor! Hmmm, I'm still dreaming of my private yatch at my own island with its 
own airport + harbour... :-D

> Logic would suggest that this application should be able to migrate from Win 
> XP to Win 7 without a problem, provided one can find support for the dongle 
> on Win 7. 

What logic? Try out the 'compatibility' settings or so on win7 on both driver 
and software. No guarantees of course.

>A nice result for the application vendor if I'm forced to do an otherwise 
>unnecessary upgrade at great cost, 

I feel your pain. Just drop them if you can. :-(

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Scott Ford]

Yep dongles are not fool proof, then can break...it's hardware..I don't get the 
reason for dongles..


Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Apr 25, 2012, at 11:56 AM, Mike Schwab  wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Joel C. Ewing  wrote:
>> 
>> A dongle definitely could be an issue for some.  Might be less of an issue
>> on Linux, but my experiences on Windoze has been less than ideal and makes
>> me regard any application that requires a dongle as more of a gamble.  While
>> the dongle may be regarded as "nice license insurance" from the software
>> vendors standpoint, it is essentially just another point of failure for the
>> user and lowers the value of the product.
>> 
>> My wife has some very expensive Embroidery software that requires a dongle.
>>  The license does entitle her to run the software on multiple platforms,
>> both her laptop and desktop, since the dongle prevents concurrent use. After
>> a year or so the dongle case became too loose to remove the dongle from the
>> USB port - the only way now is grasp and pull the dongle base with a pair of
>> needle-nose pliers, which works, but is certainly not the advertised
>> convenience. The only "support" provided by the application vendor to remedy
>> this situation is to re-purchase the software at full price to get a new
>> dongle.
>> 
>> Other than using standard Windows GUI interfaces, this software does nothing
>> that special at the Operating System level, except for the dongle support
>> that requires a hardware driver written by yet a different vendor.  Logic
>> would suggest that this application should be able to migrate from Win XP to
>> Win 7 without a problem, provided one can find support for the dongle on Win
>> 7.  My initial attempts to migrate have so far failed because the dongle
>> vendor's current drivers for Win 7 are not compatible with the older version
>> dongle that came with the application.  I haven't given up, but unless I can
>> locate a compatible driver that is also compatible with Win 7 this expensive
>> application is toast on Win 7.  A nice result for the application vendor if
>> I'm forced to do an otherwise unnecessary upgrade at great cost, but from
>> the user's standpoint this is a very poor outcome, apparently forced by the
>> decision to require a dongle.
>> 
>> --
>> Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org
>> 
> 
> I had a USB Verizon celluar modem case fail and got it replaced under
> insurance.  Now I put it on a USB Male A - Female A cord.
> -- 
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
> 
> --
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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Scott Ford]

Ed,

We run z/Pdt also, but on a bigger system, Opensuse and 16 m , Amd box, but we 
are pure development. 


Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer
www.identityforge.com



On Apr 25, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Edward Jaffe  wrote:

> On 4/25/2012 7:24 AM, Joel C. Ewing wrote:
>> 
>> The big problem with something like zPDF was that it still had a minimum 
>> $20K - $30K per year cost.
> 
> What was zPDF and why was it so expensive?
> 
> -- 
> Edward E Jaffe
> Phoenix Software International, Inc
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> 310-338-0400 x318
> edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
> http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
> 
> --
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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:43:20 -0500, Joel C. Ewing wrote:
>...
>My wife has some very expensive Embroidery software that requires a
>dongle.  The license does entitle her to run the software on multiple
>platforms, both her laptop and desktop, since the dongle prevents
>concurrent use. After a year or so the dongle case became too loose to
>remove the dongle from the USB port - the only way now is grasp and pull

Super Glue?  It's a gamble.

>the dongle base with a pair of needle-nose pliers, which works, but is
>certainly not the advertised convenience. The only "support" provided by
>the application vendor to remedy this situation is to re-purchase the
>software at full price to get a new dongle.
>
>...  My initial attempts to migrate
>have so far failed because the dongle vendor's current drivers for Win 7
>are not compatible with the older version dongle that came with the
>application.
> 
Think of it as an annual license charge.

-- gil

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Mike Schwab]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Joel C. Ewing  wrote:
>
> A dongle definitely could be an issue for some.  Might be less of an issue
> on Linux, but my experiences on Windoze has been less than ideal and makes
> me regard any application that requires a dongle as more of a gamble.  While
> the dongle may be regarded as "nice license insurance" from the software
> vendors standpoint, it is essentially just another point of failure for the
> user and lowers the value of the product.
>
> My wife has some very expensive Embroidery software that requires a dongle.
>  The license does entitle her to run the software on multiple platforms,
> both her laptop and desktop, since the dongle prevents concurrent use. After
> a year or so the dongle case became too loose to remove the dongle from the
> USB port - the only way now is grasp and pull the dongle base with a pair of
> needle-nose pliers, which works, but is certainly not the advertised
> convenience. The only "support" provided by the application vendor to remedy
> this situation is to re-purchase the software at full price to get a new
> dongle.
>
> Other than using standard Windows GUI interfaces, this software does nothing
> that special at the Operating System level, except for the dongle support
> that requires a hardware driver written by yet a different vendor.  Logic
> would suggest that this application should be able to migrate from Win XP to
> Win 7 without a problem, provided one can find support for the dongle on Win
> 7.  My initial attempts to migrate have so far failed because the dongle
> vendor's current drivers for Win 7 are not compatible with the older version
> dongle that came with the application.  I haven't given up, but unless I can
> locate a compatible driver that is also compatible with Win 7 this expensive
> application is toast on Win 7.  A nice result for the application vendor if
> I'm forced to do an otherwise unnecessary upgrade at great cost, but from
> the user's standpoint this is a very poor outcome, apparently forced by the
> decision to require a dongle.
>
> --
> Joel C. Ewing,    Bentonville, AR       jcew...@acm.org
>

I had a USB Verizon celluar modem case fail and got it replaced under
insurance.  Now I put it on a USB Male A - Female A cord.
-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Joel C. Ewing]

On 04/25/2012 09:38 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

Pardon me if I misinterpreted, but your very short responses, each followed by a period, 
said "each of these is an issue for me".

Perhaps I need more coffee before I write such a question... :)

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:19:19 -0400, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:


I'll grant you the dongle issue (but it's probably unavoidable) and possibly 
the APAR submission issue (which can be anything from a non-issue to a business 
killer), but why is Linux/Intel hosting a problem to you rather than a solution?

Just curious.


Who used the word "problem" or "issue"?
--

...

A dongle definitely could be an issue for some.  Might be less of an 
issue on Linux, but my experiences on Windoze has been less than ideal 
and makes me regard any application that requires a dongle as more of a 
gamble.  While the dongle may be regarded as "nice license insurance" 
from the software vendors standpoint, it is essentially just another 
point of failure for the user and lowers the value of the product.


My wife has some very expensive Embroidery software that requires a 
dongle.  The license does entitle her to run the software on multiple 
platforms, both her laptop and desktop, since the dongle prevents 
concurrent use. After a year or so the dongle case became too loose to 
remove the dongle from the USB port - the only way now is grasp and pull 
the dongle base with a pair of needle-nose pliers, which works, but is 
certainly not the advertised convenience. The only "support" provided by 
the application vendor to remedy this situation is to re-purchase the 
software at full price to get a new dongle.


Other than using standard Windows GUI interfaces, this software does 
nothing that special at the Operating System level, except for the 
dongle support that requires a hardware driver written by yet a 
different vendor.  Logic would suggest that this application should be 
able to migrate from Win XP to Win 7 without a problem, provided one can 
find support for the dongle on Win 7.  My initial attempts to migrate 
have so far failed because the dongle vendor's current drivers for Win 7 
are not compatible with the older version dongle that came with the 
application.  I haven't given up, but unless I can locate a compatible 
driver that is also compatible with Win 7 this expensive application is 
toast on Win 7.  A nice result for the application vendor if I'm forced 
to do an otherwise unnecessary upgrade at great cost, but from the 
user's standpoint this is a very poor outcome, apparently forced by the 
decision to require a dongle.


--
Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org 

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Alvaro Guirao Lopez]

:-x

Yes, APARinux LOL


No, I'm saying that if you want some support for Linux OS you might
purchase Red Hat.

2012/4/25 Paul Gilmartin 

> On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:27:00 +0200, Alvaro Guirao Lopez wrote:
>
> >You can acquire Red Hat that have support, Suse doesn't have support...
> >
> Are you saying that Red Hat will provide APAR support for RDz D&TE?
> I suppose if the price were right.
>
> >>> zPDT is still available only for ISV and internal IBM use. It is the
> >>> platform upon which the RDz D&TE offering is based. The technology
> works
> >>> very well. (We have one running on a Thinkpad W700.)
>
> -- gil
>
> --
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-- 
Un saludo.
Álvaro Guirao

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Edward Jaffe]

On 4/25/2012 7:24 AM, Joel C. Ewing wrote:


The big problem with something like zPDF was that it still had a minimum $20K 
- $30K per year cost.


What was zPDF and why was it so expensive?

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Edward Jaffe]

On 4/25/2012 7:27 AM, Alvaro Guirao Lopez wrote:

You can acquire Red Hat that have support, Suse doesn't have support...


He was referring to the following statement:

"The included IBM software products are provided for development purposes only 
on
an as-is basis. No technical support or APAR/PTF deliverables are provided for 
the
included software as listed in the Supporting Programs section of the product 
license

with your purchase of the Rational Development and Test Environment for System 
z."

The underlying operating system and middleware have been certified by IBM for 
use on the RDz D&TE. It is obviously intended as a turn-key system that you 
don't need to service with APARs/PTFs etc. (That way you can't introduce any new 
problems either.) I have no idea how thorough IBM's certification process is, 
but until this announcement RDz UT was still stuck on back-level z/OS because 
the latest releases had not yet been certified.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Pardon me if I misinterpreted, but your very short responses, each followed by 
a period, said "each of these is an issue for me".

Perhaps I need more coffee before I write such a question... :)

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:19:19 -0400, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

>I'll grant you the dongle issue (but it's probably unavoidable) and possibly 
>the APAR submission issue (which can be anything from a non-issue to a 
>business killer), but why is Linux/Intel hosting a problem to you rather than 
>a solution?
> 
>Just curious.
> 
Who used the word "problem" or "issue"?
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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:27:00 +0200, Alvaro Guirao Lopez wrote:

>You can acquire Red Hat that have support, Suse doesn't have support...
> 
Are you saying that Red Hat will provide APAR support for RDz D&TE?
I suppose if the price were right.

>>> zPDT is still available only for ISV and internal IBM use. It is the
>>> platform upon which the RDz D&TE offering is based. The technology works
>>> very well. (We have one running on a Thinkpad W700.)

-- gil

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:19:19 -0400, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

>I'll grant you the dongle issue (but it's probably unavoidable) and possibly 
>the APAR submission issue (which can be anything from a non-issue to a 
>business killer), but why is Linux/Intel hosting a problem to you rather than 
>a solution?
> 
>Just curious.
> 
Who used the word "problem" or "issue"?

-- gil

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Alvaro Guirao Lopez]

I didn't know the requisite of the "big box", in my client there was also a
RDz in a big box, it's a great step then..

Thanks for the clarification Edward.

2012/4/25 Edward Jaffe 

> On 4/25/2012 5:38 AM, McKown, John wrote:
>
>> Interesting. How does this differ from zPDT? It sounds like a
>> "development only" option, perhaps for ISVs or maybe commercial shops. I'll
>> never see it, given the company's attitude about the z.
>>
>
> zPDT is still available only for ISV and internal IBM use. It is the
> platform upon which the RDz D&TE offering is based. The technology works
> very well. (We have one running on a Thinkpad W700.)
>
> Previously, RDz UT was made available to commercial customers that also
> had an RDz license on a "big box" somewhere. Starting 10 May 2012, RDz D&TE
> may now be licensed as a stand-alone system, without the need for the big
> box license. This is an important step.
>
>
> --
> Edward E Jaffe
> Phoenix Software International, Inc
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> 310-338-0400 x318
> edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
> http://www.phoenixsoftware.**com/ 
>
> --**--**--
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>



-- 
Un saludo.
Álvaro Guirao

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Alvaro Guirao Lopez]

You can acquire Red Hat that have support, Suse doesn't have support...

2012/4/25 Alvaro Guirao Lopez 

> I didn't know the requisite of the "big box", in my client there was also
> a RDz in a big box, it's a great step then..
>
> Thanks for the clarification Edward.
>
> 2012/4/25 Edward Jaffe 
>
>> On 4/25/2012 5:38 AM, McKown, John wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. How does this differ from zPDT? It sounds like a
>>> "development only" option, perhaps for ISVs or maybe commercial shops. I'll
>>> never see it, given the company's attitude about the z.
>>>
>>
>> zPDT is still available only for ISV and internal IBM use. It is the
>> platform upon which the RDz D&TE offering is based. The technology works
>> very well. (We have one running on a Thinkpad W700.)
>>
>> Previously, RDz UT was made available to commercial customers that also
>> had an RDz license on a "big box" somewhere. Starting 10 May 2012, RDz D&TE
>> may now be licensed as a stand-alone system, without the need for the big
>> box license. This is an important step.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Edward E Jaffe
>> Phoenix Software International, Inc
>> 831 Parkview Drive North
>> El Segundo, CA 90245
>> 310-338-0400 x318
>> edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
>> http://www.phoenixsoftware.**com/ 
>>
>> --**--**
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Un saludo.
> Álvaro Guirao
>



-- 
Un saludo.
Álvaro Guirao

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Joel C. Ewing]

On 04/25/2012 01:53 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 23:36:19 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote:


The "march" toward a personal use z/OS license takes another step forward ...

http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS212-145/ENUS212-145.PDF

"... Additionally, the [Rational Developer and Test Environment for System z]
  product can now be purchased as a stand-alone entry point into the Rational
development solutions for System z. This lowers the cost of initial purchase,
opening the environment for use by developers, testers, and operations
personnel, and provides an easier path to adoption for traditional mainframe
developers looking to modernize their development and test processes
and infrastructure."


Dongle.  Intel/Linux hosted.  No APAR support.

-- gil

...
Dongle, don't like but could live with.  Intel/Linux hosting, not 
unreasonable.  The big unanswered question not mentioned anywhere in the 
pdf document is the cost.


The big problem with something like zPDF was that it still had a minimum 
$20K - $30K per year cost.  A quick read of this latest offering 
suggests it still has an annual license charge per user, but if there 
was any clue on price range I missed it.   Perhaps there are other 
on-line resources that clarify.


Having a personal z/OS to occasionally play with would be so cool.  But, 
the intended target here still appears to be businesses, which no doubt 
means it's priced accordingly and out of range for casual personal use! 
 Speaking for those of us not in the top 1%, even $5K per year would be 
way more than I currently budget for all my home personal computing, so 
I doubt this new offering yet approaches what I could justify as an 
entertainment expense.


I baulked at MicroSoft's concept that in response to MS's agenda, and 
not mine, I should be willing to shell out $100's per home platform 
every several years for the privilege of having to re-learn all the 
familiar user interfaces, force-upgrade other application software, and 
still expend significant resources on "protection software" -- which is 
why my primary home systems have been SE Linux (Fedora) for several 
years.  A cost of $1000's per year for "cool" wouldn't fly for me.


--
Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org 

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Farley, Peter x23353]

I'll grant you the dongle issue (but it's probably unavoidable) and possibly 
the APAR submission issue (which can be anything from a non-issue to a business 
killer), but why is Linux/Intel hosting a problem to you rather than a solution?

Just curious.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 2:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 23:36:19 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote:

>The "march" toward a personal use z/OS license takes another step forward ...
>
>http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS212-145/ENUS212-145.PDF
>
>"... Additionally, the [Rational Developer and Test Environment for System z]
>  product can now be purchased as a stand-alone entry point into the Rational
>development solutions for System z. This lowers the cost of initial purchase,
>opening the environment for use by developers, testers, and operations
>personnel, and provides an easier path to adoption for traditional mainframe
>developers looking to modernize their development and test processes
>and infrastructure."
> 
Dongle.  Intel/Linux hosted.  No APAR support.
--


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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Edward Jaffe]

On 4/25/2012 5:38 AM, McKown, John wrote:

Interesting. How does this differ from zPDT? It sounds like a "development 
only" option, perhaps for ISVs or maybe commercial shops. I'll never see it, given 
the company's attitude about the z.


zPDT is still available only for ISV and internal IBM use. It is the platform 
upon which the RDz D&TE offering is based. The technology works very well. (We 
have one running on a Thinkpad W700.)


Previously, RDz UT was made available to commercial customers that also had an 
RDz license on a "big box" somewhere. Starting 10 May 2012, RDz D&TE may now be 
licensed as a stand-alone system, without the need for the big box license. This 
is an important step.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
310-338-0400 x318
edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[McKown, John]

Interesting. How does this differ from zPDT? It sounds like a "development 
only" option, perhaps for ISVs or maybe commercial shops. I'll never see it, 
given the company's attitude about the z.

-- 
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * 
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

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> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:36 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License
> 
> The "march" toward a personal use z/OS license takes another 
> step forward ...
> 
> http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS212-145/ENUS212-145.PDF
> 
> "... Additionally, the [Rational Developer and Test 
> Environment for System z]
>   product can now be purchased as a stand-alone entry point 
> into the Rational
> development solutions for System z. This lowers the cost of 
> initial purchase,
> opening the environment for use by developers, testers, and operations
> personnel, and provides an easier path to adoption for 
> traditional mainframe
> developers looking to modernize their development and test processes
> and infrastructure."
> 
> -- 
> Edward E Jaffe
> Phoenix Software International, Inc
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> 310-338-0400 x318
> edja...@phoenixsoftware.com
> http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> 

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Alvaro Guirao Lopez]

Efectivelly, there's no support, I have been implementing past year RDzUT
in a client (development purposes), and the only support was an IBM guy
that helps in some problems, but without "official" support for opening
incidents.

The only way for solving problems is encountering opened APARs from MF
shops.

2012/4/25 Paul Gilmartin 

> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 23:36:19 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote:
>
> >The "march" toward a personal use z/OS license takes another step forward
> ...
> >
> >http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS212-145/ENUS212-145.PDF
> >
> >"... Additionally, the [Rational Developer and Test Environment for
> System z]
> >  product can now be purchased as a stand-alone entry point into the
> Rational
> >development solutions for System z. This lowers the cost of initial
> purchase,
> >opening the environment for use by developers, testers, and operations
> >personnel, and provides an easier path to adoption for traditional
> mainframe
> >developers looking to modernize their development and test processes
> >and infrastructure."
> >
> Dongle.  Intel/Linux hosted.  No APAR support.
>
> -- gil
>
> --
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Álvaro Guirao

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Re: Progress Toward z/OS Personal Use License

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 23:36:19 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote:

>The "march" toward a personal use z/OS license takes another step forward ...
>
>http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/rep_ca/5/897/ENUS212-145/ENUS212-145.PDF
>
>"... Additionally, the [Rational Developer and Test Environment for System z]
>  product can now be purchased as a stand-alone entry point into the Rational
>development solutions for System z. This lowers the cost of initial purchase,
>opening the environment for use by developers, testers, and operations
>personnel, and provides an easier path to adoption for traditional mainframe
>developers looking to modernize their development and test processes
>and infrastructure."
> 
Dongle.  Intel/Linux hosted.  No APAR support.

-- gil

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