Re: Remote Tape drives
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/04/2007 at 08:22 AM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Ah, you guessed. It wasn't hard; the case is notorious in Linux circles. Groklaw-a-holic here. Not me, although I hit it once or twice. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 12/29/2006 at 01:07 PM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: However, if desired I can go on and on and on about another lawsuit that IBM has going at present. SCOX, née Caldera? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 12/29/2006 at 06:16 PM, Crispin Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Any suggestions on ways we could have a tape drive 3490 in a remote location attached to our mainframe. How large is the file? If speed is not important than I would expect the file to be small, in which case it would be viable to write it to DASD and then FTP it to tape. I don't know whether IBM provides a z/OS equivalent of RXFTP, but FTP is scriptable from, e.g., Perl, in case a script is necessary. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Remote Tape drives In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 12/29/2006 at 01:07 PM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: However, if desired I can go on and on and on about another lawsuit that IBM has going at present. SCOX, née Caldera? Ah, you guessed. Groklaw-a-holic here. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Ted MacNEIL wrote: In the early 1970's, there was a fire in the University of Toronto Computer Room (well before the protection(s) we have today). February 1977. Just coming up on the 30th anniversary. Been there, seen the flames, got the pictures. Learned many amazing lessons in DR/BC - something that almost no one in the commercial or academic worlds had given any serious thought to at the time. I had to endure, 20 years later, stories by my, then, VP, but previously the computer operations manager at UoT, about how he had thought to grab the poles/racks (or whatever) and strung them through the reels in the tape library, to rescue as many as he could. The trick was in unscrewing the hooks from the tops of the coat stands so they would fit through the tape hubs. Two people each with one end of a pole on each shoulder can carry a lot of tapes very quickly that way. Due to poor/untested backup/dr procedures a lot of master's/PHD work was still lost. I don't know of anyone whose computer work was lost. There were no DR procedures at all, but there were daily backups, and we had all systems up and running at an IBM site within 36 hours. What *was* lost was paper records and other academic work, but that was elsewhere in the building and not related to the Computer Centre. But I digress... Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
I don't know of anyone whose computer work was lost. I'm going by the stories told by my (former) VP. When in doubt. PANIC!! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
I am sure that there are many options. I have used Network Systems and CNT, and now McData Channel Extenders, in the past and I am sure they would work, but at a price. However, I have also used a Barr Dos based solution for both 3480 and Printer extension (via a remote 37xx) from these folks http://www.barrsystems.com/ and found it more than sufficient for purpose at a lesser cost. These days, Barr have IP solutions, but at the time we needed to switch from SNA to IP the solution on offer required us to run an additional MS SNA Server/Client configuration. In the end I elected to replace the DOS machine with an NT server, utilised the existing 3480 device (SCSI attached) and ran NovaXchange from Novastor to read/write the cartridges. However, this required us to use FTP to transfer data to/from the mainframe which introduced an additional piece of processing but there is the option to store the data on the server until you are ready to write the cartridges. We do still run Barr software (Using MS SNA Server) but only for Printers and not Tapes/Cartridges. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Gould) writes: I have been exposed to two different channel extenders over the years. Of the two each had its own weaknesses. I won't talk about brand names other than to say they were from different parts of the US. The first (and second) seemed to drive IOS nuts and they were guilty of various errors which at least a few times brought the system down (these were attached to either a 4341 or a 168 ( 3033)). I had IBM ask me to strip out their logrec errors of the report as the number of errors at times amounted to several hundred a day. Yes the damn things worked (sort of kind of) but the error recovery took its toll on MVS. The devices they had at the other end had response time issues which were hard to pin down as to where the issue was. The error recovery was part of issue of course but other items just kept on cropping up and (at times) it was a part time sysprog to baby sit the various issues. recent posting about doing channel extender installation in 1980, when STL (now silicon valley lab) was bursting at the seams and needed to move 300 (IMS) to offsite bldg. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#3 The Future of of CPUs: What's After Multi-core one of the things i did was choose to reflect channel check when i got unrecoverable error (some number from the T1 link). that decision eventually propogated into a number of different implementations supporting the same hardware. this showed up as a problem early in the 3090 product cycle. after first year, 3090 product manager contacted me claiming that the 3090 customer machines erep was showing an unnatural number of channel checks. 3090 was designed to have something like 3-5 total, aggregate, channel checks for the first year across all installed 3090s. erep reports had turned up something like 20 total channel checks. after some investigation, i determined that IFCC (interface control checks) would result in the same error recovery process (as reflecting channel check). installation supported channel attached 3270 controllers, printers, and tapes. didn't support CKD DASD ... because of timing dependent problems with search arguments. later the vendor introduced enhanced remote device adapter that addressed the timing problem with CKD search arguments. You saw this show up at installations like NCAR ... besides supporting ibm mainframe channel extension it also supported a number of other vendor processors. the NCAR installation sort of used an ibm mainframe system as a hierarchical filesystem control infrastructure ... for other processors (like Crays) directly doing i/o to CKD disks (sort of the original SAN implementation). this particular vendor eventually was later purchased by STK. misc. past posts on this subject: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#23 CP spooling programming technology http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#24 CP spooling programming technology http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#27 Mainframes Unix http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#38 How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#65 Does the word mainframe still have a meaning? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#68 Does the word mainframe still have a meaning? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#21 Disk caching and file systems. Disk history...people forget http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#22 Disk caching and file systems. Disk history...people forget http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#33 Did ATT offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#46 3270 protocol http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#10 index searching http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#46 What goes into a 3090? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#7 Blade architectures http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#60 Mainframes and mini-computers http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#61 GE 625/635 Reference + Smart Hardware http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#43 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#67 Total Computing Power http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#29 360/370 disk drives http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#66 FBA suggestion was Re: average DASD Blocksize http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#22 303x, idals, dat, disk head settle, and other rambling folklore http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#75 DASD Architecture of the future http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#33 The attack of the killer mainframes http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#29 FW: Is FICON good enough, or is it the only choice we get? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#13 Device and channel http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#1 Cluster computing drawbacks http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#14 Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#55 IBM 3330 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#22 Channel Distances http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#23 Channel Distances
Re: Remote Tape drives
Chaps, Any suggestions on ways we could have a tape drive 3490 in a remote location attached to our mainframe. We are talking about 1 thousand of miles. Speed is not important THis is very doable today. I am running CNT Channel Extension (ESCON) out 300 miles and it can go the distance of your choice. Mine was implemented back in the early 1990s. Keep in mind the Channel Extension players have dwindled. INRANGE bought Computerm, CNT Bought INRANGE, McData bought CNT, and now BROCADE bought McData (or maybe vice-versa). Right now it is running over a pair of T-1 lines with two 256kb ISDN backup lines. The traffic is all encrypted. This is running some CNT protocol. Error recovery is taken care in the CNT box. I recently looked at a few alternatives. It has worked flawlessly for 12+ years. One option was to modernize the CNT solution which can convert the protocol to run over existing IP circuits. Out to the remote location there are a number of DS-3 lines and possibly it could exploit these (reducing the T-1 and ISDN line expense). The costs depends. Since I have staffing on the other end, I looked at some small robotic cartridge library at reduce personnel costs. Another option is to look at the reason for cartridges and eliminate them. One requirement was just some offsite storage of data files which could be achieved with a PC and quite large redundant hard drives. Then the files would be SecureFTP'ed out the remote site. So examine the alternatives and if cartridges in the remote site are a must, a robotic library is a worthwhile alternative. If not, the Autoloaders are most certinaly a must. Jim Marshall -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
I have been exposed to two different channel extenders over the years snip these were attached to either a 4341 or a 168 ( 3033)) Ed - Your experience with extenders occurred over 20 years ago. This falls into the category of AFH and is not relevant to modern equipment. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
On Dec 30, 2006, at 6:17 AM, Bob Shannon wrote: I have been exposed to two different channel extenders over the years snip these were attached to either a 4341 or a 168 ( 3033)) Ed - Your experience with extenders occurred over 20 years ago. This falls into the category of AFH and is not relevant to modern equipment. Well, I did not add that The OEM equipment is still for sale and I know at least one vendor is still selling the stuff in Chicago (at least as of 2006). Ed Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
snip--- Any suggestions on ways we could have a tape drive 3490 in a remote location attached to our mainframe. We are talking about 1 thousand of miles. Speed is not important ---unsnip- CNT Channel extension via T3 carrier. Would also allow for consoles/terminals. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
--snip- What ever happened to those good old Mohawk data transfer units --unsnip- IIRC, they died at about the same time that open reel tapes died. CARTRIDGES RULE!!! :-( -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Modern equipment is just so unsexy. With the old reel tapes, at least you could see the tape spinning, and the tape bouncing up and down in the vacuum columns. Cartridges you can't see anything. Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Lands End Dodgeville, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 - Original Message - From: Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] --snip- What ever happened to those good old Mohawk data transfer units --unsnip- IIRC, they died at about the same time that open reel tapes died. CARTRIDGES RULE!!! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Cartridges you can't see anything. We used to have contests to see who could carry the most reels by stringing them on your arm. At 6'-2, I had the longest arms, so I always won. Couldn't do that with cartridges. I point out, at a non-disclosure on 3480's, that IBM had taken all the fun out of being a tape ape! When in doubt. PANIC!! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
In a message dated 12/30/2006 11:39:25 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: point out, at a non-disclosure on 3480's, that IBM had taken all the fun out of being a tape ape! Guess it's year end story time. Was working in Northern California and we had a little tumbler maybe 5.4 on the Richter in early eighties(pre-cartridge) and we get this call all secure personnel to the tape vault! Well our earthquake proof building had hopped enough to knock about 50,000 reels off the shelf and everybody that could read and bend over was put to work. Only took a few hours. We had looked at the automated tape library with collapsing shelves, but after one of the utility companies managed to squish a tape ape we decided to wait for cartridgeshad to decline the ESP cause our security/OPS couldn't/wouldn't detect if somebody had a CART stuffed in their BVD's! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Well our earthquake proof building had hopped enough to knock about 50,000 reels off the shelf and everybody that could read and bend over was put to work. In the early 1970's, there was a fire in the University of Toronto Computer Room (well before the protection(s) we have today). I had to endure, 20 years later, stories by my, then, VP, but previously the computer operations manager at UoT, about how he had thought to grab the poles/racks (or whatever) and strung them through the reels in the tape library, to rescue as many as he could. Due to poor/untested backup/dr procedures a lot of master's/PHD work was still lost. UoT has top-level procedures, today. When in doubt. PANIC!! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
In a message dated 12/30/2006 12:04:59 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Due to poor/untested backup/dr procedures a lot of master's/PHD work was still lost. UoT has top-level procedures, today. Wonder if there's an ISO standard for Academic research regarding protection of Academic Research. We've had a few pilfered hard drives and one English Major that stuck each Chapter(one floppy) to the fridge with Disney magnets. Guess the worst was a physics professor that published a PhD's dissertation on solar models while he was on a Ford grant in Denmark. Took him years to recover in another field-math. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crispin Hugo Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Remote Tape drives Chaps, Any suggestions on ways we could have a tape drive 3490 in a remote location attached to our mainframe. We are talking about 1 thousand of miles. Speed is not important Crispin Hugo CNT channel extender? Or do a Google search on channel extender http://www.bealltech.com/beallexl.htm -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Cheers John, I thought channel extenders had a finite distance , like about 250k. I think we are looking for something which would be IP based Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Crispin Hugo wrote: Chaps, Any suggestions on ways we could have a tape drive 3490 in a remote location attached to our mainframe. We are talking about 1 thousand of miles. Speed is not important Use ftp instead ? Transmitted files could be: a) recorded on CD or DVD, b) use locally attached mainframe to record tapes, even in friendly location, using those DVDs as a source. c) use some software + PC attached 3490. Otherwise use channel extenders - both link and devices will be expensive. IMHO CD is better than 3490. Every shop has at least one PC with CD drive, while not every one has such model of tape drives. My $0.02. Regards -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
There are 3490-compatible drives that attach to PCs (one example: http://tapedrives-3480to3590.com/134-04-11025) . Get one, use it to read the tape file at the PC end, then FTP the resulting file to your mainframe. Tim Hare Senior Systems Programmer Florida Department of Transportation (850) 414-4209 Crispin Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 12/29/2006 01:27 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: Remote Tape drives Cheers John, I thought channel extenders had a finite distance , like about 250k. I think we are looking for something which would be IP based Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
CNT channel extender? Or do a Google search on channel extender I've used CNT at two companies. They're expensive but do the job. At the first company the remote drives were about 1200 miles away. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Again, I agree about CD but many of our customers want tape. We have to bow to their wishes. Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 _ This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Tim, That would work but does require that we have people at both end available. There may be a need to use this system over greater distances which would cause problems with time differences Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 http://www.macro4.com/ This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
I will investigate CNT. Many thanks Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 http://www.macro4.com/ This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Remote Tape drives
Chaps, Any suggestions on ways we could have a tape drive 3490 in a remote location attached to our mainframe. We are talking about 1 thousand of miles. Speed is not important Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 http://www.macro4.com/ http://www.macro4.com/ Macro 4 plc, The Orangery, Turners Hill Road, Worth, Crawley, RH10 4SS Direct Line: +44 (0)1293 872121 Switchboard: +44 (0) 1293 872000 Fax: +44 (0) 1293 872001 This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation, offer or acceptance of any offer. This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
You'll need people at both ends for a tape drive, too - tape drives end up with all sorts of issues requiring operator intervention. Tim Hare Senior Systems Programmer Florida Department of Transportation (850) 414-4209 That would work but does require that we have people at both end available. There may be a need to use this system over greater distances which would cause problems with time differences -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Tim, I would envisage that the 'remote' have access to the mainframe to run the jobs they require. Mount the tape required etc. Long distance operators ! Machine would think tape is local Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 http://www.macro4.com/ This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crispin Hugo Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Remote Tape drives Cheers John, I thought channel extenders had a finite distance , like about 250k. I think we are looking for something which would be IP based Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 Hum, I think that you are correct. But that is all that I have heard of. The problem, as best as I can see it, is the slowness of the response from the tape due to the extreme slowness of the speed of light. gring Now, I know of a possible way to do it, but it would be VERY indirect and not real time. Funsoft (http://www.funsoft.com), the makers of FlexES, have a system called the FLEXCUB. This is based on FlexES, sort of. What it does is make an Escon connected control unit. On the back end it can use the device emulation software from FlexES to control SCSI tape drives, emulated tape drives (AWS or FakeTape(tm) formatted volumes which look like tapes to the z/OS system) and disk volumes. What would be possible, but a real PAIN, would be to connect such a thing to your zSeries locally. Have the z/OS (or z/VSE or z/VM or z/Linux) write their data to an FakeTape(tm) volume which is on the local FlexCUB system. Have this FlexCUB system, which runs Linux, export the filesystem containing the FakeTape(tm) volumes using NFS or some other such software. Now, on the far end, have another PC running Linux with a SCSI attached tape drive import that filesystem. You'd likely need to VPN the two systems together over the Internet or a dedicated IP line (your choice). On the remote PC, have a daemon (or cron scheduled task) which can copy the FakeTape(tm) to an actual physical tape. There is a utility to do this from Funsoft. This would assume that the FakeTape(tm) on the FLEXCUB system would always be considered the authoritative source for the data on the particular volume. Instead of NFS, it might be possible to use some file transfer function such as ftp, scp, sftp, etc., to copy the data from the FLEXCUB system to the remote PC. Or, heaven forfend, encrypt it and email it GRIN. If you need to send the otherway, then just reverse the direction of the copy (I think). The main problem that I can see with this is how to know that the z/OS system has completed writing all the information to the tape so that it can be known that it is ready to be written to the physical tape. I.e. how to know that the tape is complete in the case where it contains multiple datasets, perhaps created over the course of even days. I have not thought about this. Now, the FLEXCUB software knows when z/OS has issued a rewind and dismount CCW. Perhaps there is a hook on the PC side which could trigger a Linux function of some sort. I would suggest talking with Funsoft about this possibility. Another problem is how to reconcile the z/OS tape label with the physical tape label. I mean the one on the outside of the tape, the copying will replace the internal tape label. But if the internal doesn't match the external, you have problems grin. This might be handled by something on the remote end conversing with the operator to mount a particular tape volser, then doing VOL1 verification on the remote PC before doing the actual tape copying. I do not offer this as a good solution. But it is all that I can think of. And I'm a bit bored due to the hands off that we are in due to year end processing. I hope you, and all others, don't mind. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Oh No. John said FlexES. Please lets not get started on lawsuits again!!!hahahahahahahahaha... McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 12/29/2006 01:54 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: Remote Tape drives -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crispin Hugo Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Remote Tape drives Cheers John, I thought channel extenders had a finite distance , like about 250k. I think we are looking for something which would be IP based Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 Hum, I think that you are correct. But that is all that I have heard of. The problem, as best as I can see it, is the slowness of the response from the tape due to the extreme slowness of the speed of light. gring Now, I know of a possible way to do it, but it would be VERY indirect and not real time. Funsoft (http://www.funsoft.com), the makers of FlexES, have a system called the FLEXCUB. This is based on FlexES, sort of. What it does is make an Escon connected control unit. On the back end it can use the device emulation software from FlexES to control SCSI tape drives, emulated tape drives (AWS or FakeTape(tm) formatted volumes which look like tapes to the z/OS system) and disk volumes. What would be possible, but a real PAIN, would be to connect such a thing to your zSeries locally. Have the z/OS (or z/VSE or z/VM or z/Linux) write their data to an FakeTape(tm) volume which is on the local FlexCUB system. Have this FlexCUB system, which runs Linux, export the filesystem containing the FakeTape(tm) volumes using NFS or some other such software. Now, on the far end, have another PC running Linux with a SCSI attached tape drive import that filesystem. You'd likely need to VPN the two systems together over the Internet or a dedicated IP line (your choice). On the remote PC, have a daemon (or cron scheduled task) which can copy the FakeTape(tm) to an actual physical tape. There is a utility to do this from Funsoft. This would assume that the FakeTape(tm) on the FLEXCUB system would always be considered the authoritative source for the data on the particular volume. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carol Srna Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Remote Tape drives Oh No. John said FlexES. Please lets not get started on lawsuits again!!!hahahahahahahahaha... What lawsuit? There is no lawsuit currently ongoing about FlexES. And FLEXCUB is just based on portions of the FlexES software. The part that emulates devices, not the part that emulates the zArchitecture instructions. Move along, nothing to see here! grin However, if desired I can go on and on and on about another lawsuit that IBM has going at present. But that one has nothing to do with System z, so I will not. huge sigh of relief from the gallery. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Also check out McData.com (also known as InRange) for channel extenders. Like CNT, they have units that operate over IP -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
What ever happened to those good old Mohawk data transfer units -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Thanks Bruce Crispin Hugo Systems Programmer, Macro 4 http://www.macro4.com/ This email has been scanned for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security Service and the Macro 4 plc internal virus protection system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Bruce Black wrote: Also check out McData.com (also known as InRange) for channel extenders. Like CNT, they have units that operate over IP CNT is a part of McDATA for quite long time Adva is part of CNT (which is a part...) InRange is also part of McDATA AFAIK, also McDATA was recently bought by Brocade... So, we have Brocade, Cisco or niche players. I don't like it. I like to have a choice. I like competition. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland P.S. Obviously all IBM-logo devices are OEM'ed. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
In a message dated 12/29/2006 1:17:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What ever happened to those good old Mohawk data transfer units Or the other ones? 37 somethings that took a 3420 and xMIT'd it over 9600 bisynch...Look ma no hands -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Remote Tape drives
Bob, I have been exposed to two different channel extenders over the years. Of the two each had its own weaknesses. I won't talk about brand names other than to say they were from different parts of the US. The first (and second) seemed to drive IOS nuts and they were guilty of various errors which at least a few times brought the system down (these were attached to either a 4341 or a 168 ( 3033)). I had IBM ask me to strip out their logrec errors of the report as the number of errors at times amounted to several hundred a day. Yes the damn things worked (sort of kind of) but the error recovery took its toll on MVS. The devices they had at the other end had response time issues which were hard to pin down as to where the issue was. The error recovery was part of issue of course but other items just kept on cropping up and (at times) it was a part time sysprog to baby sit the various issues. In both cases when we got rid of the devices our issues disappeared. we replaced the box(s) with a 3745 and our reports made it to the end users in 30 minutes or less sometimes hours. Yes the 3745 complicated life but we got everything to work in an extremely less intensive person/hour cost and the time that was sysprog took was at best minimal. It did cost human time but it was at a lower pay scale and he could actually help out operations doing thier job. Just to clarify the 3745 did not support tape it was used what it was designed for. Ed Dec 29, 2006, at 12:32 PM, Bob Shannon wrote: CNT channel extender? Or do a Google search on channel extender I've used CNT at two companies. They're expensive but do the job. At the first company the remote drives were about 1200 miles away. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
