Re: Time change this weekend.
On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 06:51:51PM -0400, Ed Finnell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ACROBAT READER 7.0.5 was recently released and so far it seems to be working fine. It's a big update, something like 9+ Mb. Yup, autoupdate picked it up and another reboot. Aren't you glad that you don't have to IPL MVS every time some applications programmer recompiles a COBOL or C program? Some readers apparently missed the point in a previous post of mine asking about rebooting their PCs. It was a snide rhetorical question. If Winblows wasn't fundamentally broken at an architectural level it wouldn't be necessary to reboot for trivial applications program installs/updates. Getting back onto the topic of this thread: One selling point of z/OS is supposedly continuous operations. So if you have to shut down an application or the system for the time change, then that application or the system is not in compliance with the continuous operations philosophy. If the code in question is current level supported by IBM, I'd be pushing hard for a fix through the APAR process. /Leonard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
I'm not sure, but I think IDMS (we are 14.2) still can't handle moving back an hour so we need to leave it down. Last year (2004) for the change to EDT we had an operator who thought they remembered how to change the time on the sysplex timers, ended up changing GMT time instead of the local offset. We had to leave DB2 down for an hour when we changed it back. I think if you use the oder NetView time commands instead of newer cron based ones it still needs to be bounced after the time change, both to and from EDT. McGee, Cletus wrote: I am new to this company here and one of the things they do is to shut the system down on the fall time change and wait one hour before they bring the system back up. Outside of scheduler issues, is there any reason to do this? One that keeps coming up is the timestamp on VSAM files being an issue. Some questions. One does anyone else do this and if so why? Second, is there real reason why this should happen, if so what are they? Or are they just working off one bad past experience. Thanks in advance. *** Cletus McGee Technical Services (334) 394-3320 Have a grand day -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
In a message dated 10/27/2005 2:45:48 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anybody reboot their PC due to DST? No, but I average about 5 times a week for updates, anti-virus, spyware, ad-ware, on a pretty vanilla system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... In a message dated 10/27/2005 2:45:48 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anybody reboot their PC due to DST? No, but I average about 5 times a week for updates, anti-virus, spyware, ad-ware, on a pretty vanilla system. And not for hangups, blue screens, Dr Watson interventions and other unsolicited interruptions? You have a nice machine... -;) Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
In a recent note, Ed Finnell said: Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:54:10 EDT In a message dated 10/27/2005 2:45:48 A.M. Central Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: Does anybody reboot their PC due to DST? No, but I average about 5 times a week for updates, anti-virus, spyware, ad-ware, on a pretty vanilla system. Get something else. My iBook says, now: 500 $ uptime 8:18 up 14 days, 10:34, 4 users, load averages: 0.15 0.03 0.16 ... and I once reached about 400 days on my Solaris workstation. But I perceive a significant dearth of objectivity in this thread. Admit it. The PFCSKs are right on this one. There's no justification nowadays for a requirement to POR (not just IPL, mind you, POR) to make certain clock changes. Shrug. It's just something the designers of the TOD clock overlooked. Maybe things will improve with the newly announced time protocol. -- gil -- StorageTek INFORMATION made POWERFUL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
In a message dated 10/27/2005 8:29:36 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And not for hangups, blue screens, Dr Watson interventions and other unsolicited interruptions? You have a nice machine... -;) ACROBAT READER(7.0.3) is still a little flaky, but if I don't push it too hard it(or get too impatient) usually recovers without a reboot. Lost hardrive back in February and took me about a week to recover everything back to current status. Don't think I've had a BSOD since going to XP. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
But I perceive a significant dearth of objectivity in this thread. Admit it. The PFCSKs are right on this one. There's no justification nowadays for a requirement to POR (not just IPL, mind you, POR) to make certain clock changes. Shrug. It's just something the designers of the TOD clock overlooked. Maybe things will improve with the newly announced time protocol. Not likely to change until someone submits a requirement for implementing the new SASMC instruction (Set And Synchronize Multiple Clocks) via the ISPF interface. Seems like I remember setting the clock via the hardware console some 20+ years ago. Time was always as accurate as the operator's pocket watch. Had to push the special button, too. Was that only possible at IPL time, as well? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
What about SMTP? Doesn't it still require the TIMEZONE parameter in the conf member to be changed twice a year? It doesn't require to be down an hour, but it is still a change that must be remembered. Craig -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Brock Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Time change this weekend. Standard answer: It depends. If your OS and systems software is up to date and you have your OS configured to run off of GMT and an offset, there is probably no need to shut the system down. If you are back-level on things like CICS, DB2, etc., then you might need to in order to keep things like database log timestamps from being out of sync. Jon snip I am new to this company here and one of the things they do is to shut the system down on the fall time change and wait one hour before they bring the system back up. Outside of scheduler issues, is there any reason to do this? One that keeps coming up is the timestamp on VSAM files being an issue. Some questions. One does anyone else do this and if so why? Second, is there real reason why this should happen, if so what are they? Or are they just working off one bad past experience. /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
Unles you use the type syntax of 'TIMEZONE +0500', you do not have to change the parm. We just leave ours to 'TIMEZONE EST' year round. Claude [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/27/05 10:46AM What about SMTP? Doesn't it still require the TIMEZONE parameter in the conf member to be changed twice a year? It doesn't require to be down an hour, but it is still a change that must be remembered. Craig -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Brock Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Time change this weekend. Standard answer: It depends. If your OS and systems software is up to date and you have your OS configured to run off of GMT and an offset, there is probably no need to shut the system down. If you are back-level on things like CICS, DB2, etc., then you might need to in order to keep things like database log timestamps from being out of sync. Jon snip I am new to this company here and one of the things they do is to shut the system down on the fall time change and wait one hour before they bring the system back up. Outside of scheduler issues, is there any reason to do this? One that keeps coming up is the timestamp on VSAM files being an issue. Some questions. One does anyone else do this and if so why? Second, is there real reason why this should happen, if so what are they? Or are they just working off one bad past experience. /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- The contents of this e-mail (and any attachments) are confidential, may be privileged and may contain copyright material. You may only reproduce or distribute material if you are expressly authorized by us to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email (and any attachments) is unauthorized. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and immediately delete this e-mail and any copies of it from your system. == -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
I agree. You can tell everyone all you want about how the mainframe runs the business-critical applications, that it can handle I/O out the wazoo (painful concept, when you think about it), how other platforms are only now implementing things that MVS has had for years, but when you mention that you have to take online systems away from users for an hour for a simple clock change you punch a serious hole in the whole high-tech mainframe rep. Add to that the fact that the little boxes are getting to be good enough in terms of uptime, and we have a serious public relations problem. (I'm sorry that Ed has to reboot his Windows PC five times a week, but I rarely have to reboot either my work or home Windows machine more than once or twice a month.) Is the mainframe the best solution by far for a whole host (Host! Ha!) of applications? You bet. Are we losing the perception war? In most shops, probably so. Jon snip Get something else. My iBook says, now: 500 $ uptime 8:18 up 14 days, 10:34, 4 users, load averages: 0.15 0.03 0.16 ... and I once reached about 400 days on my Solaris workstation. But I perceive a significant dearth of objectivity in this thread. Admit it. The PFCSKs are right on this one. There's no justification nowadays for a requirement to POR (not just IPL, mind you, POR) to make certain clock changes. Shrug. It's just something the designers of the TOD clock overlooked. Maybe things will improve with the newly announced time protocol. /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Time change this weekend.
I am new to this company here and one of the things they do is to shut the system down on the fall time change and wait one hour before they bring the system back up. Outside of scheduler issues, is there any reason to do this? One that keeps coming up is the timestamp on VSAM files being an issue. Some questions. One does anyone else do this and if so why? Second, is there real reason why this should happen, if so what are they? Or are they just working off one bad past experience. Thanks in advance. *** Cletus McGee Technical Services (334) 394-3320 Have a grand day - The information contained in this email/fax is confidential; it is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution, or use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact us immediately at the telephone number or e-mail address set forth above and destroy all copies of the original message. Although this email/fax is believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system in which it is received, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free; Alfa accepts no responsibility for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
Cletus, The key to all this is that GMT=GMT on your system, and NOT GMT=LOCAL time. If the latter, you will have problems when you change time without Waiting an hour. Quite sometime ago IBM time proofed almost Everything by using GMT(which doesn't change) for everything. Of Course there were some gotcha's, and there may still be, but from An OS perspective, going backwards to standard time is no problem. Dave Dave Jousma Principal Systems Programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 616.653.8429 This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
Use of time-of-day as a KEY has us shutting down for an hour each year. Cheers! JD -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McGee, Cletus Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Time change this weekend. I am new to this company here and one of the things they do is to shut the system down on the fall time change and wait one hour before they bring the system back up. Outside of scheduler issues, is there any reason to do this? One that keeps coming up is the timestamp on VSAM files being an issue. Some questions. One does anyone else do this and if so why? Second, is there real reason why this should happen, if so what are they? Or are they just working off one bad past experience. Thanks in advance. *** Cletus McGee Technical Services (334) 394-3320 Have a grand day - The information contained in this email/fax is confidential; it is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution, or use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact us immediately at the telephone number or e-mail address set forth above and destroy all copies of the original message. Although this email/fax is believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system in which it is received, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free; Alfa accepts no responsibility for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
In a recent note, Jerry Durbin said: Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:48:04 -0600 Use of time-of-day as a KEY has us shutting down for an hour each year. Use GMT instead of local time as the KEY. -- gil -- StorageTek INFORMATION made POWERFUL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
Right On Dave, Just got out of our Time Change Meeting. For zOS 1.4 Sysplex, all we do is: At 02:00am, on the SYSPLEX MASTER CONSOLE we enter: RO *ALL,T CLOCK=01.00.00 There are some issues we have with subsystems (Omegamon and IPCP), so we bounce all the Omegamons, and issue F TCICS,CEMT PERFORM RESET F TCICS,OMEG SHUT F TCICS,OMEG INIT We 'are' using GMT with the proper offset to the West Coast, and have been through this time change process a couple of times. gabe -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Time change this weekend. Cletus, The key to all this is that GMT=GMT on your system, and NOT GMT=LOCAL time. If the latter, you will have problems when you change time without Waiting an hour. Quite sometime ago IBM time proofed almost Everything by using GMT(which doesn't change) for everything. Of Course there were some gotcha's, and there may still be, but from An OS perspective, going backwards to standard time is no problem. Dave Dave Jousma Principal Systems Programmer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:33:12 -0500, McGee, Cletus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to this company here and one of the things they do is to shut the system down on the fall time change and wait one hour before they bring the system back up. Outside of scheduler issues, is there any reason to do this? Cletus, We run GMT=GMT and all of our system software can tolerate the change without waiting an hour. Unfortunately, we have application software that tracks events with local timestamps and we stay down for the hour because of that. In our manufacturing processes it is illogical that process B completed before process A. We have deemed it not worth the trouble to root out and fix all the affected code. We just take the outage. -Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob Wunderlich Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:33 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Time change this weekend. snip Cletus, We run GMT=GMT and all of our system software can tolerate the change without waiting an hour. Unfortunately, we have application software that tracks events with local timestamps and we stay down for the hour because of that. In our manufacturing processes it is illogical that process B completed before process A. We have deemed it not worth the trouble to root out and fix all the affected code. We just take the outage. -Rob Rob, Has anybody on the other side tried to use this as an argument that z/OS is so poorly designed that it cannot stand changing the clock without an outage? Around here, any glitch, however minor, is taken up by the Windows zealots as yet another reason that we should totally eliminate the zSeries. And they are winning the war. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
We have deemed it not worth the trouble to root out and fix all the affected code. We just take the outage. Has anybody on the other side tried to use this as an argument that z/OS is so poorly designed that it cannot stand changing the clock without an outage? ... It's not z/OS! MVS has been able to handle it since at least 5.2.2. It's the application code, as the above poster stated. If you had the same gooberware running under WINTEL, that didn't log properly, the OS can't help you there, either. -teD In God we Trust! All others bring data! -- W. Edwards Deming -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
In a message dated 10/26/2005 3:59:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you had the same gooberware running under WINTEL, that didn't log properly, the OS can't help you there, either. Ever tried to add a 'Time change independent' to an RFP for gooberwarenobody bids! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:00 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Time change this weekend. We have deemed it not worth the trouble to root out and fix all the affected code. We just take the outage. Has anybody on the other side tried to use this as an argument that z/OS is so poorly designed that it cannot stand changing the clock without an outage? ... It's not z/OS! MVS has been able to handle it since at least 5.2.2. It's the application code, as the above poster stated. If you had the same gooberware running under WINTEL, that didn't log properly, the OS can't help you there, either. -teD Ted, You are using LOGIC. Stop that!grin Around here, the mainframe is counted as down if there is any perceived outage, regardless of reason. That includes poor application design. Or even if a LAN segment dies due to a switch outage (like the idiot pulled the plug - it's happened!) Oh, this does not apply to the Wintel boxes. They are only counted as down if the OS is down (e.g. if MSSQL is down, but the OS is up, then the server is up). Just more POLITICAL stuff. I was just pointing out that POLITICALLY, anti-mainframe zealots could try to say It doesn't matter why the mainframe is down, it only matters that it is down. And, in the given case, the mainframe is, indeed, down. It doesn't matter why, it just is. Facts are irrelevant. Perception is reality! Yes, I'm ranting again. But hopefully for a good cause. To avoid giving the other side any ammo. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Time change this weekend.
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:31:03 -0500, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anybody on the other side tried to use this as an argument that z/OS is so poorly designed that it cannot stand changing the clock without an outage? Around here, any glitch, however minor, is taken up by the Windows zealots as yet another reason that we should totally eliminate the zSeries. And they are winning the war. No, I haven't heard that one yet. The replace the mainframe arguments around here are usually about perceived cost, esp software. Folks here are generally impressed with the uptime and availability of our mainframe and it's applications. We won't really keep the OS down for the hour. Just the subsystems and the entry points. I have had the Windows crowd give me funny looks when I tell them I have to POR my box to change the GMT clock. Damm thing drifts a few seconds a month and there are financial reasons why it can't be more than 10 seconds off from popcorn (For those of you outside the US, popcorn is the telephone number you dial to get the official time). -Rob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
