Re: Good News: Introducing Mobile Workload Pricing (MWP) for z/OS

[R.S.]

Fundamental question:
How can the tool recognize which transactions are mobile?


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Re: Good News: Introducing Mobile Workload Pricing (MWP) for z/OS

[Shane Ginnane]

Oh joy, just what we all need, yet another pricing model.

Timothy offered his rendition - I wonder how much extra business it will 
generate for people like Al and Cheryl.

Shane ...

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Re: Good News: Introducing Mobile Workload Pricing (MWP) for z/OS

[Roger Lowe]

One point that 'jumped out' at me when reading the Announcement Letter under 
Key Prerequisites is - 

"Install and use the Mobile Workload Reporting Tool (MWRT) on a Microsoft  
Windows based system."

Surely, the functionality of MWRT could have been added to SCRT so that us 
customers could keep running it on z/OS?

Do I also read between the lines and 'assume' that the SMF data we currently 
collect for SCRT will need to be transferred down to a Windows machine to have 
MWRT process it?

Roger

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Re: Good News: Introducing Mobile Workload Pricing (MWP) for z/OS

[Aled Hughes]

Thanks for that Shane! I share your sentiments about Timothy's rendition, but I 
wonder if Al and Cheryl can clarify what IBM actually mean. Seriously, I hold 
Timothy's contributions in very high regard. But.

Sorry Timothy, but, today, my mind bogleth. I may be stupid, but I have yet to 
understand the basics - what is defined as a 'mobile transaction'. I think I 
have a good command of the English language (despite Welsh being my first 
language!) Surely a mobile transaction is not just one generated via a 
mobile/cell phone? Or what about if I use my laptop at the airport to check a 
transaction (security aspects notwithstanding). 

I read Annoucement Letters with glee - NOT! I recall some advice from a 
consultancy outfit I worked for many moons back, 'if one word will do, use six, 
it adds to the confusion'. 

I'm ranting. I apologize. 

ALH


 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Shane Ginnane 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Thu, 8 May 2014 11:44
Subject: Re: Good News: Introducing Mobile Workload Pricing (MWP) for z/OS


Oh joy, just what we all need, yet another pricing model.

Timothy offered his rendition - I wonder how much extra business it will 
generate for people like Al and Cheryl.

Shane ...

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EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER

[גדי בן אבי]

Hi,
Once in a while we receive this series of messages:
14128 13:58:52.67 STC17917 0090 *EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER DETECTED 
AT IP ADDRESS x.x.x.x
14128 13:58:52.67 STC17917 0090  EZZ9310I NAME SERVER x.x.x.x 409
   409 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF QUERIES SENT 2
   409 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF FAILURES 1
   409 0090   PERCENTAGE   50%

14128 14:03:52.68 STC17917 0090  EZZ9309I NAME SERVER IS NOW RESPONSIVE AT 
IP ADDRESS x.x.x.x
14128 14:03:52.68 STC17917 0090  EZZ9310I NAME SERVER x.x.x.x 257
   257 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF QUERIES SENT 2
   257 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF FAILURES 0
   257 0090   PERCENTAGE   0%

The messages are issued by the resolver address space.
Is there a way to find out what is causing these messages?
It looks like some kind of DNS query.
Can I find out what the query was?

We are using z/OS 1.13

Thanks

Gadi


לשימת לבך, בהתאם לנהלי חברת מלם מערכות בע"מ ו/או כל חברת בת ו/או חברה קשורה שלה 
(להלן : "החברה") וזכויות החתימה בהן, כל הצעה, התחייבות או מצג מטעם החברה, 
מחייבים מסמך נפרד וחתום על ידי מורשי החתימה של החברה, הנושא את לוגו החברה או 
שמה המודפס ובצירוף חותמת החברה. בהעדר מסמך כאמור (לרבות מסמך סרוק) המצורף 
להודעת דואר אלקטרוני זאת, אין לראות באמור בהודעה אלא משום טיוטה לדיון, ואין 
להסתמך עליה לביצוע פעולה עסקית או משפטית כלשהי.

Please note that in accordance with Malam and/or its subsidiaries (hereinafter 
: "Malam") regulations and signatory rights, no offer, agreement, concession or 
representation is binding on the Malam, unless accompanied by a duly signed 
separate document (or a scanned version thereof), affixed with the Malam seal.

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Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a bad thing

[Scott Chapman]

I agree that getting an exact 100% average over multiple minutes is going to be 
somewhat unlikely. But we can get close.

From RMF's Partition Data Report:

--- PHYSICAL PROCESSORS ---
LPAR MGMT  EFFECTIVE  TOTAL
0.02   8.60   8.62 
0.12  78.81  78.93 
0.05  11.53  11.58 
0.01   0.50   0.51 
0.12  0.30 
   -  -  - 
0.31  99.44  99.93 

That's one 15 minute interval, but 5 consecutive intervals were above 99%, only 
decreasing when the group cap hit and dropped the utilization down to about 76% 
of the physical machine. It ran at the group cap for around 6 hours after that, 
which you can kind of consider running at 100% of the "available" capacity. 
(Actually more than that, since the group cap is set to about 74% of the 
machine; the caps aren't enforced perfectly.)

Taking away about a quarter of the capacity via a group cap may seem a bit 
extreme, but the batch window finished with hours to spare, and online is fine 
during the day, so it's all good. Of course during certain days of the month 
daytime dev/test batch suffers for a few hours, but the MLC cost savings makes 
impacting those lower importance workloads worthwhile.

Scott Chapman

On Wed, 7 May 2014 18:37:03 -0500, Shane Ginnane  wrote:

>On Wed, 7 May 2014 10:47:49 -0400, John Eells wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure we have a white paper. 
>
>I would think a search of Techdocs for "Kathy Walsh" would be a good start.
>But of course we need to define whose "100%" we're talking about. z/OS has a 
>peculiar notion of CPU% - more so in virtualised environments like PR/SM 
>and/or z/VM.
>Then we have dynamic weighting issues - 100% busy of what proportion of the 
>machine ?. When ?. For how long ?.
>
>Nothing is as simple as it once was when we ran on bare metal.
>
>Shane ...
>
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Re: EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER

[Roger Lowe]

Gadi,
   Have a look at the Comms Server IP Diagnosis Guide 

http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r12/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.zos.r12.hald001%2Fstepmesre.htm

Roger

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Re: IBM C and Cobol Threading question

[Scott Ford]

Tom,


Thank you very much, I appreciate the clarification, I thought this was how 
threading worked with Cobol but wanted to make sure.


Regards,

Scott





From: Tom Ross
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎May‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎02‎ ‎AM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List





>I have written a C program using threads and have a question. I have an ext=
>ernal message table that I need to be persistent between threads.  The mess=
>age table is loaded from an external QSAM file. Program in Cobol loads the =
>table. I want to be able to use the message table in other threads. Does an=
>yone know is Working-Storage from one thread available to other threads ?=20

Yes!  In fact, all of your COBOL threads would be using a single copy of
WORKING-STORAGE, so if one of them wants to do something that does not affect
the others then the programs need LOCAL-STORAGE variables.  Normally with
multi-threading you would not use WORKING-STORAGE because of this.  In your
case, defining your table in WORKING-STORAGE and your other variables in
LOCAL-STORAGE would work great!

Cheers,
TomR  >> COBOL is the Language of the Future! <<

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Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a bad thing

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Ted MacNEIL wrote:

>I've worked for a bank and a wholesaler that both routinely ran at 100%. 
>Service levels were met, but people were always griping about the usage.

>As John said, no harm no foul.

Agreed.

Over the years we see the CPU Utilization graphs as follow (from midnight to 
next midnight):

"Free State Flat" - around 0 %  - 20% all hours of the day. (Free State 
province in South Africa is mostly flat, not even a little hill.)

"Hilly" - varying wildly from 10% to 90% during the course of the day. One idle 
interval followed up by busy interval.


"Dolly Parton" :
 
CPU usage: 00:00 - 06:59 - around 0% - 40% (depending on night work) , 
07:00 - 12:00 - 80% - 100%, 
lunchtime to around 14:00 - dropping down to 60%, 
14:00 - 16:00 - same as morning, 
from 17:00 - it varies depending on scheduled backup window.

Then we have "Table Mountain" too: from 06: - 18:00 at 100% - flat as Table 
Mountain. Rest of day, it is like "Hilly", up and down.

In all of these scenarios, there is no harm or foul.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER

[Keith Smith]

I have had the same problem. I am sure it is network related but my network
folks say nothing has changed... to that I say... why did it just start
occurring without any change anywhere.

I was forced to add:
RESOLVERTIMEOUT 10
UNRESPONSIVETHRESHOLD(85)

Note that your current level of failure is 50%. I think the default on
UNRESPONSIVETHRESHOLD is something like 25%. Meaning if in the sample time
period you have over 25% failures... you get the message.

Since this is just an early warning type message, and my network folks
can't tell me why it is failing at times... I set my UNRESPONSIVETHRESHOLD
to 85% and, if I understand RESOLVERTIMEOUT, correctly, I have doubled the
amount of time that it gathers attempts to calculate the percentage.

Making these changes on my system has cut these messages down from several
per day to just a few each week.

Regards,


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:13 AM, גדי בן אבי  wrote:

> Hi,
> Once in a while we receive this series of messages:
> 14128 13:58:52.67 STC17917 0090 *EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER
> DETECTED AT IP ADDRESS x.x.x.x
> 14128 13:58:52.67 STC17917 0090  EZZ9310I NAME SERVER x.x.x.x 409
>409 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF QUERIES SENT
> 2
>409 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF FAILURES
> 1
>409 0090   PERCENTAGE
> 50%
>
> 14128 14:03:52.68 STC17917 0090  EZZ9309I NAME SERVER IS NOW
> RESPONSIVE AT IP ADDRESS x.x.x.x
> 14128 14:03:52.68 STC17917 0090  EZZ9310I NAME SERVER x.x.x.x 257
>257 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF QUERIES SENT
> 2
>257 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF FAILURES
> 0
>257 0090   PERCENTAGE
> 0%
>
> The messages are issued by the resolver address space.
> Is there a way to find out what is causing these messages?
> It looks like some kind of DNS query.
> Can I find out what the query was?
>
> We are using z/OS 1.13
>
> Thanks
>
> Gadi
>
> 
> לשימת לבך, בהתאם לנהלי חברת מלם מערכות בע"מ ו/או כל חברת בת ו/או חברה
> קשורה שלה (להלן : "החברה") וזכויות החתימה בהן, כל הצעה, התחייבות או מצג
> מטעם החברה, מחייבים מסמך נפרד וחתום על ידי מורשי החתימה של החברה, הנושא את
> לוגו החברה או שמה המודפס ובצירוף חותמת החברה. בהעדר מסמך כאמור (לרבות מסמך
> סרוק) המצורף להודעת דואר אלקטרוני זאת, אין לראות באמור בהודעה אלא משום
> טיוטה לדיון, ואין להסתמך עליה לביצוע פעולה עסקית או משפטית כלשהי.
>
> Please note that in accordance with Malam and/or its subsidiaries
> (hereinafter : "Malam") regulations and signatory rights, no offer,
> agreement, concession or representation is binding on the Malam, unless
> accompanied by a duly signed separate document (or a scanned version
> thereof), affixed with the Malam seal.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



-- 
Keith Smith
Engineer-Enterprise Sys Sr.-IT Capacity & Performance
Shaw Industries Inc.
Subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway
616 E Walnut Ave
Mail Drop 072-04
Dalton, GA 30721
Email: keith.sm...@shawinc.com  Office: 706.532.3244

Please consider the environment before printing.

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Re: z/OS FTPS Client & Linux FTP server

[Donald J.]

Kevin is right about the complete chain.
I issued this openssl command:
openssl s_client -connect ftp.s390.mainline.com:21 -starttls ftp -tls1
-CAfile gd-class2-root.crt
and got error:
Verify return code: 21 (unable to verify the first certificate)

I created a cacerts file with both the intermediate and root cert:
copy gd_intermediate.crt+gd-class2-root.crt daddy.cacerts.crt

Then I got code 0 with:
openssl s_client -connect ftp.s390.mainline.com:21 -starttls ftp -tls1
-CAfile daddy.cacerts.crt

So your rsa_cert_file=/etc/vsftpd/mainline-wc-2011.crt file probably
does not have the chain
of 3 certs in it:  They should be stacked in the file as follows:

-BEGIN CERTIFICATE-
mainline server cert
-END CERTIFICATE-
-BEGIN CERTIFICATE-
gd_intermediate.crt cert
-END CERTIFICATE-
-BEGIN CERTIFICATE-
gd-class2-root.crt cert
-END CERTIFICATE-

Filezilla is not a good program to test with, as it appears to not do
server cert 
authenticatation.  It is better to use curl for windows or curl for
z/OS.

-- 
  Donald J.
  dona...@4email.net

On Wed, May 7, 2014, at 03:38 PM, Neubert, Kevin wrote:
> Is the chain complete?  Check trust and Issuer's/Subject's Names. 
> RACDCERT LIST(LABEL('Go Daddy Class 2')) CERTAUTH.  Do you have all the
> names?  SEARCH CLASS(DIGTCERT).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
 
> 
>Ring:
> >FtpSecur<
>Certificate Label Name Cert Owner USAGE  DEFAULT
>         ---
>GeoTrust Global CA CERTAUTH   CERTAUTH NO
>Go Daddy Class 2   CERTAUTH   CERTAUTH YES
 

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Re: EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER

[Keith Smith]

I left off the "and"


 I have doubled the amount of time that it gathers attempts to calculate
the percentage *and the time it allows for an attempt to be considered a
failure.*


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Keith Smith  wrote:

> I have had the same problem. I am sure it is network related but my
> network folks say nothing has changed... to that I say... why did it just
> start occurring without any change anywhere.
>
> I was forced to add:
> RESOLVERTIMEOUT 10
> UNRESPONSIVETHRESHOLD(85)
>
> Note that your current level of failure is 50%. I think the default on
> UNRESPONSIVETHRESHOLD is something like 25%. Meaning if in the sample time
> period you have over 25% failures... you get the message.
>
> Since this is just an early warning type message, and my network folks
> can't tell me why it is failing at times... I set my UNRESPONSIVETHRESHOLD
> to 85% and, if I understand RESOLVERTIMEOUT, correctly, I have doubled the
> amount of time that it gathers attempts to calculate the percentage.
>
> Making these changes on my system has cut these messages down from several
> per day to just a few each week.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:13 AM, גדי בן אבי  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Once in a while we receive this series of messages:
>> 14128 13:58:52.67 STC17917 0090 *EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER
>> DETECTED AT IP ADDRESS x.x.x.x
>> 14128 13:58:52.67 STC17917 0090  EZZ9310I NAME SERVER x.x.x.x 409
>>409 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF QUERIES
>> SENT 2
>>409 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF FAILURES
>>   1
>>409 0090   PERCENTAGE
>>   50%
>>
>> 14128 14:03:52.68 STC17917 0090  EZZ9309I NAME SERVER IS NOW
>> RESPONSIVE AT IP ADDRESS x.x.x.x
>> 14128 14:03:52.68 STC17917 0090  EZZ9310I NAME SERVER x.x.x.x 257
>>257 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF QUERIES
>> SENT 2
>>257 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF FAILURES
>>   0
>>257 0090   PERCENTAGE
>>   0%
>>
>> The messages are issued by the resolver address space.
>> Is there a way to find out what is causing these messages?
>> It looks like some kind of DNS query.
>> Can I find out what the query was?
>>
>> We are using z/OS 1.13
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gadi
>>
>> 
>> לשימת לבך, בהתאם לנהלי חברת מלם מערכות בע"מ ו/או כל חברת בת ו/או חברה
>> קשורה שלה (להלן : "החברה") וזכויות החתימה בהן, כל הצעה, התחייבות או מצג
>> מטעם החברה, מחייבים מסמך נפרד וחתום על ידי מורשי החתימה של החברה, הנושא את
>> לוגו החברה או שמה המודפס ובצירוף חותמת החברה. בהעדר מסמך כאמור (לרבות מסמך
>> סרוק) המצורף להודעת דואר אלקטרוני זאת, אין לראות באמור בהודעה אלא משום
>> טיוטה לדיון, ואין להסתמך עליה לביצוע פעולה עסקית או משפטית כלשהי.
>>
>> Please note that in accordance with Malam and/or its subsidiaries
>> (hereinafter : "Malam") regulations and signatory rights, no offer,
>> agreement, concession or representation is binding on the Malam, unless
>> accompanied by a duly signed separate document (or a scanned version
>> thereof), affixed with the Malam seal.
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Keith Smith
> Engineer-Enterprise Sys Sr.-IT Capacity & Performance
> Shaw Industries Inc.
> Subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway
> 616 E Walnut Ave
> Mail Drop 072-04
> Dalton, GA 30721
> Email: keith.sm...@shawinc.com  Office: 706.532.3244
>
> Please consider the environment before printing.
>



-- 
Keith Smith
Engineer-Enterprise Sys Sr.-IT Capacity & Performance
Shaw Industries Inc.
Subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway
616 E Walnut Ave
Mail Drop 072-04
Dalton, GA 30721
Email: keith.sm...@shawinc.com  Office: 706.532.3244

Please consider the environment before printing.

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Re: Good News: Introducing Mobile Workload Pricing (MWP) for z/OS

[R.S.]

W dniu 2014-05-08 12:44, Shane Ginnane pisze:

Oh joy, just what we all need, yet another pricing model.

Timothy offered his rendition - I wonder how much extra business it will 
generate for people like Al and Cheryl.
Well, I was first customer of WLC and we are (were) very happy of that 
model. Now, as a leader in mobile banking, with the mainframe on the 
backend we are interested in new pricing model (read:  *cost savings*, 
MONEY!). Of course we would accept discounts even without new pricing 
models and reporting tools.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






---
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
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Re: REXX EDIT of Source Code

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <5630949866383476.wa.butlerjus.ibm@listserv.ua.edu>, on
05/06/2014
   at 01:14 PM, Jon Butler  said:

>I have a problem where I need to Edit/view source code to vet it 
>for compliance to corporate standards.

With what RECFM?
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a bad thing

[Bob Shannon]

I used to work at an insurance company that refused to add capacity. When we 
ran quarterly processing, later changed to monthly processing, the machine was 
pegged for a day or two. We couldn't do any testing because production sucked 
up all of the resources.  The processor and software continued to work fine 
during that period, it was only test work that suffered.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a bad thing

[Vernooij, CP (SPLXM) - KLM]

I would add: and test work suffered because your goals were set so. z/OS will 
always do what you tell it to do b.m.o. your goal definitions. 
This is quite different from other platforms, that already start doing 
problematic above 30%. I have seen Linux machines being reboot, because even 
the Sysop was not able to log in in order to check and adjust what the machine 
was doing. This is like being chased out of your house by your own dog, the 
world up side down.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bob Shannon
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 14:55
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a bad thing

I used to work at an insurance company that refused to add capacity. When we 
ran quarterly processing, later changed to monthly processing, the machine was 
pegged for a day or two. We couldn't do any testing because production sucked 
up all of the resources.  The processor and software continued to work fine 
during that period, it was only test work that suffered.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a bad thing

[Martin Packer]

Interesting: I suspect that nowadays the words "only testing" or "only 
development" will play differently. It's my contention that increasingly 
getting function out the door is part of a company's attempt to compete.

I wonder how many companies will be able to defer Development / Test going 
forwards.

Cheers, Martin

Martin Packer,
zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator,
Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM

+44-7802-245-584

email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com

Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker
Blog: 
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker



From:   Bob Shannon 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Date:   08/05/2014 13:55
Subject:Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a 
bad thing
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



I used to work at an insurance company that refused to add capacity. When 
we ran quarterly processing, later changed to monthly processing, the 
machine was pegged for a day or two. We couldn't do any testing because 
production sucked up all of the resources.  The processor and software 
continued to work fine during that period, it was only test work that 
suffered.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER

[Staller, Allan]

It *IS* definitely a DNS request. Tracking it down to the requestor will be 
some hard work.

This is RESOLVER telling you it was unable to contact the designated DNS with 
the defined time period. 
As other have stated, there are some knobs that can be turned to reduce the 
frequency of this message.

This is not an indication of a z/OS problem. z/OS is reacting to the DNS not 
responding in a timely manner. 

HTH,


Once in a while we receive this series of messages:
14128 13:58:52.67 STC17917 0090 *EZZ9308E UNRESPONSIVE NAME SERVER DETECTED 
AT IP ADDRESS x.x.x.x
14128 13:58:52.67 STC17917 0090  EZZ9310I NAME SERVER x.x.x.x 409
   409 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF QUERIES SENT 2
   409 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF FAILURES 1
   409 0090   PERCENTAGE   50%

14128 14:03:52.68 STC17917 0090  EZZ9309I NAME SERVER IS NOW RESPONSIVE AT 
IP ADDRESS x.x.x.x
14128 14:03:52.68 STC17917 0090  EZZ9310I NAME SERVER x.x.x.x 257
   257 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF QUERIES SENT 2
   257 0090   TOTAL NUMBER OF FAILURES 0
   257 0090   PERCENTAGE   0%

The messages are issued by the resolver address space.
Is there a way to find out what is causing these messages?
It looks like some kind of DNS query.


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Re: System z StackExchange proposal

[zMan]

I'm not *opposed* to the idea, but you might want to suggest why this is
somehow better than IBM-MAIN (plus archives). One view says "This would
fragment the community", which would NOT be a good thing.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Christopher Hodgins <
chris.hodg...@uk.ibm.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A few of my IBM colleagues and myself are attempting to create a new
> community for System z on StackExchange, covering everything System z
> related. If you haven't seen StackExchange before, it is an excellent and
> easy to find place to ask questions, share answers or even just vote on
> questions you would like to see answered. This isn't an attempt to replace
> or displace existing communities but to encourage even more knowledge on
> System z to be shared and discussed.
>
> To request a new community you first create a proposal community and
> encourage StackExchange users to submit and/or up-vote questions. This is
> to prove that the community would be viable, sustainable and useful. If
> you would like to help us support this new community, we would very much
> appreciate it if you could create a StackExchange account, up-vote the
> existing questions and propose some new questions.
>
> Community proposal:
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/67330/system-z
>
> Many thanks
> Chris
>
>
> 
> Chris Hodgins
> IBM Software Engineer - CICS Transaction Server for z/OS
> The CICS blog:
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/ChrisHodgins
> Unless stated otherwise above:
> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
> 741598.
> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
>
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Just a Question On Texting

[George Rodriguez]

Is there a program that can text a phone, just like XMITIP?

 *George Rodriguez*
*Specialist II - IT Solutions*
*IT Enterprise Applications*
*PX - 47652*
*(561) 357-7652 (office)*
*(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
*School District of Palm Beach County*
*3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
*Room B-251*
*West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
*Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*

-- 


*Congratulations** Class of 2014 
!  For Graduation dates, 
times and locations, click here 
.
  Watch Graduations Live May 
14 - 23 on Comcast 235 and online **.*
  * Follow us on *   [image: 
Facebook]  
  [image: Twitter] 
*Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If 
you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public 
records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, 
contact this office by phone or in writing.


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Re: Just a Question On Texting

[Burrell, C. Todd (CDC/OCOO/OCIO/ITSO) (CTR)]

Couldn't you just use SMTP and send an email to the phone?  We used something 
like that and then just sent an email to xxx...@vtext.com for Verizon 
phones and it worked fine (as long as SMTP is running). 

Todd Burrell, PMP, ITIL Expert, CISSP | Project Manager | ITSO AHB | Centers 
for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
Contractor - HP Enterprise Services | 1600 Clifton Rd, Building 21, MS D24, RM 
1300 | Atlanta, GA 30338 | 404-971-7275 (Blackberry) 404-723-2017 (Mobile) | 
z...@cdc.gov


THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY 
MATERIAL and is for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in 
error, please notify the sender and delete the communication from all computers.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of George Rodriguez
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 9:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Just a Question On Texting

Is there a program that can text a phone, just like XMITIP?

 *George Rodriguez*
*Specialist II - IT Solutions*
*IT Enterprise Applications*
*PX - 47652*
*(561) 357-7652 (office)*
*(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
*School District of Palm Beach County*
*3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
*Room B-251*
*West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
*Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*

-- 


*Congratulations** Class of 2014
!  For Graduation dates, 
times and locations, click here 
.
  Watch Graduations Live May
14 - 23 on Comcast 235 and online **.*
  * Follow us on *   [image: 
Facebook]  
  [image: Twitter] 
*Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If you do 
not want your e-mail address released in response to a public records request, 
do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, contact this office by 
phone or in writing.


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Re: Just a Question On Texting

[zMan]

Yes, all the cell providers support email-to-text. Google "email to text"
or "vtext messaging,sprintpcs.com" (no quotes) will likely find it (since I
know offhand that those are the domains for Verizon and Sprint, so that'll
likely find a page with the rest).


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Burrell, C. Todd (CDC/OCOO/OCIO/ITSO) (CTR)
 wrote:

> Couldn't you just use SMTP and send an email to the phone?  We used
> something like that and then just sent an email to xx@vtext.comfor 
> Verizon phones and it worked fine (as long as SMTP is running).
>
> Todd Burrell, PMP, ITIL Expert, CISSP | Project Manager | ITSO AHB |
> Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
> Contractor - HP Enterprise Services | 1600 Clifton Rd, Building 21, MS
> D24, RM 1300 | Atlanta, GA 30338 | 404-971-7275 (Blackberry) 
> 404-723-2017(Mobile) |
> z...@cdc.gov
>
>
> THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
> MATERIAL and is for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
> this in error, please notify the sender and delete the communication from
> all computers.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of George Rodriguez
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 9:26 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Just a Question On Texting
>
> Is there a program that can text a phone, just like XMITIP?
>
>  *George Rodriguez*
> *Specialist II - IT Solutions*
> *IT Enterprise Applications*
> *PX - 47652*
> *(561) 357-7652 (office)*
> *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
> *School District of Palm Beach County*
> *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
> *Room B-251*
> *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
> *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*
>
> --
>
>
> *Congratulations** Class of 2014
> !  For Graduation
> dates, times and locations, click here <
> http://www.palmbeachschools.org/academics/documents/2014PBCGraduationSchedulev304-17-14.pdf>.
>  Watch Graduations Live May
> 14 - 23 on Comcast 235 and online **.*
>   * Follow us on *   [image: Facebook]<
> http://www.palmbeachschools.org/links/facebook.html>
>   [image: Twitter] 
> *Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If
> you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public
> records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead,
> contact this office by phone or in writing.
>
>
> --
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> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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>



-- 
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Re: Just a Question On Texting

[John McKown]

We use XMITIP to do that very thing. But it works by sending a email to a
email-to-SMS-text gateway server "in the cloud" somewhere. Basically we
send the email from z/OS to our MS Exchange email server with a "name". The
MS Exchange server transforms that name into something like:
8175551...@tmomail.net . The "tmomail.net" is the email to SMS text server
for the T-Mobile (my cell provider). This server then transforms that into
an SMS text message which it sends to 817-555-1212 (not my real telephone
number, not that you're likely to have thought that it was).
More info at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_gateway

This references some sort of hardware you might be able to buy, but it
would be a "server" on your LAN (I guess) not something on the z/OS system
itself.



On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:26 AM, George Rodriguez <
george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org> wrote:

> Is there a program that can text a phone, just like XMITIP?
>
>  *George Rodriguez*
> *Specialist II - IT Solutions*
> *IT Enterprise Applications*
> *PX - 47652*
> *(561) 357-7652 (office)*
> *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
> *School District of Palm Beach County*
> *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
> *Room B-251*
> *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
> *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*
>
> --
>
>
> *Congratulations** Class of 2014
> !  For Graduation
> dates,
> times and locations, click here
> <
> http://www.palmbeachschools.org/academics/documents/2014PBCGraduationSchedulev304-17-14.pdf>.
>  Watch Graduations Live May
> 14 - 23 on Comcast 235 and online **.*
>   * Follow us on *   [image: Facebook]<
> http://www.palmbeachschools.org/links/facebook.html>
>   [image: Twitter] 
> *Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If
> you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public
> records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead,
> contact this office by phone or in writing.
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



-- 
There is nothing more pleasant than traveling and meeting new people!
Genghis Khan

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Use SORT to manipulate a CSV?

[Kirk Talman]

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 
05/07/2014 12:36:00 PM:

> From: Paul Gilmartin 

> On Wed, 7 May 2014 12:28:25 -0400, Bill Ashton  wrote:
> >... The file is a VB file with LRECL=0 and BLKSIZE=4096. ...

> ???

If you ask the wrong question, the answer is irrelevant. :-)

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Re : Setting A SLIP For A Program Running Under CICS.

[Jim Thomas]

Hello, 

I am trying to set a SLIP for a transaction (program) that runs under CICS and 
having no luck. 

I have tried searching but have not run across any useful information thus far. 

Could somebody either point me to where I can read up on setting an IF SLIP for 
a CICS program
or tell me how to do it please ??. Note : I need an IF SLIP … Compcode will not 
do. 

I was pointed to using CECI on the CICS-L but would prefer if I could just SLIP 
it. 

Please acknowledge and advise. 

Kind Regards.

Jim Thomas

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Re: System z StackExchange proposal

[Christopher Hodgins]

Hi zMan,

I've been answering similar points in the CICS-L mailing list, so I'll 
link you to the full discussion in the archives below. To briefly 
summarise though, the mailing lists are awesome and this isn't an attempt 
to fragment the community. It's an attempt to reach out to potentially new 
or existing audiences who wish to interact in different ways. The 
StackExchange model does have certain advantages over mailing lists for 
Q&A interactions. Whereas mailing lists are brilliant for IBM-MAIN styles 
of interaction where discussions are long and winding and branch off into 
several different discussions along the way. 

The discussion on CICS-L from the archive:
http://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A3=ind1405&L=cics-l&P=240757&E=2&B=--=_alternative+0036D96380257CD2_=&T=text/html

We've had a great response from everyone so far but we still need a little 
more help in voting up and adding new questions to the proposed community. 
If you can help the community link is below.

Community proposal:
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/67330/system-z

Thanks
Chris


Chris Hodgins
IBM Software Engineer - CICS Transaction Server for z/OS
The CICS blog: 
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/ChrisHodgins



From:   zMan 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, 
Date:   08/05/2014 14:22
Subject:Re: System z StackExchange proposal
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



I'm not *opposed* to the idea, but you might want to suggest why this is
somehow better than IBM-MAIN (plus archives). One view says "This would
fragment the community", which would NOT be a good thing.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Christopher Hodgins <
chris.hodg...@uk.ibm.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A few of my IBM colleagues and myself are attempting to create a new
> community for System z on StackExchange, covering everything System z
> related. If you haven't seen StackExchange before, it is an excellent 
and
> easy to find place to ask questions, share answers or even just vote on
> questions you would like to see answered. This isn't an attempt to 
replace
> or displace existing communities but to encourage even more knowledge on
> System z to be shared and discussed.
>
> To request a new community you first create a proposal community and
> encourage StackExchange users to submit and/or up-vote questions. This 
is
> to prove that the community would be viable, sustainable and useful. If
> you would like to help us support this new community, we would very much
> appreciate it if you could create a StackExchange account, up-vote the
> existing questions and propose some new questions.
>
> Community proposal:
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/67330/system-z
>
> Many thanks
> Chris
>
>
> 

> Chris Hodgins
> IBM Software Engineer - CICS Transaction Server for z/OS
> The CICS blog:
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/ChrisHodgins
> Unless stated otherwise above:
> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
> 741598.
> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 
3AU
>
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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Re: IBM C and Cobol Threading question

[John McKown]

Tom,
Looking here:
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/igy3pg31/4.4

For the data that you want to isolate to an individual program invocation
instance, define the data in the LOCAL-STORAGE SECTION. In general, this
choice is appropriate for working data in threaded programs. If you declare
data in WORKING-STORAGE and your program changes the contents of the data,
you must take one of the following actions:

Structure your application so that you do not access data in
WORKING-STORAGE simultaneously from multiple threads.

If you do access data simultaneously from separate threads, write
appropriate serialization code.


But there doesn't seem to be any hint of how to "write appropriate
serialization code". Too bad COBOL can't declare a variable "ATOMIC" or
have some sort serialization primitive like some other languages. I rather
like the "synchronized" in Java. But, of course, COBOL is not really
designed for multi-threading. If I want to do "heavy duty" threading and
concurrency, I'd choose Clojure. Why? Because it is designed for it _AND_
it runs on the JVM which means it can run on a zAAP.



On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Tom Ross wrote:

> >I have written a C program using threads and have a question. I have an
> ext=
> >ernal message table that I need to be persistent between threads.  The
> mess=
> >age table is loaded from an external QSAM file. Program in Cobol loads
> the =
> >table. I want to be able to use the message table in other threads. Does
> an=
> >yone know is Working-Storage from one thread available to other threads
> ?=20
>
> Yes!  In fact, all of your COBOL threads would be using a single copy of
> WORKING-STORAGE, so if one of them wants to do something that does not
> affect
> the others then the programs need LOCAL-STORAGE variables.  Normally with
> multi-threading you would not use WORKING-STORAGE because of this.  In your
> case, defining your table in WORKING-STORAGE and your other variables in
> LOCAL-STORAGE would work great!
>
> Cheers,
> TomR  >> COBOL is the Language of the Future! <<
>
> --
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-- 
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: IBM C and Cobol Threading question

[Jon Perryman]

I personally would STRONGLY discourage this implementation. You're not the only 
one in your environment.

Why not do it correctly and allocate from shared storage pool. Use either C's 
or assemblers implementation. Remember if you do it once, someone else will 
think this clever and use it without fully understanding why it works.


The Cobol guide has a section on multithreading. I've never read it but you 
should at least follow it's guidelines.

Yes it will work but it's not even done this way in C and we should not do this 
in assembler. Multi-tasking is allowed in assembler (ATTACH) and C (threading) 
but not in most other languages. By violating C's implementation of global 
variables, you are doing something they don't expect. Cobol user's don't 
multi-task so they are not familiar with this. In the best error situation you 
get an abend. In the worst, some other threads storage will get stomped on and 
the receivng program will reference bad data. 

Jon Perryman


On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:02 PM, Tom Ross  
wrote:
 
>I have written a C program using threads and have a question. I have an ext=
>>ernal message table that I need to be persistent between threads.  The mess=
>>age table is loaded from an external QSAM file. Program in Cobol loads the =
>>table. I want to be able to use the message table in other threads. Does an=
>>yone know is Working-Storage from one thread available to other threads ?=20
>
>Yes!  In fact, all of your COBOL threads would be using a single copy of
>WORKING-STORAGE, so if one of them wants to do something that does not affect
>the others then the programs need LOCAL-STORAGE variables.  Normally with
>multi-threading you would not use WORKING-STORAGE because of this.  In your
>case, defining your table in WORKING-STORAGE and your other variables in
>LOCAL-STORAGE would work great!
>

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IPCS Linkage Stack on z/OS 2.1

[Tom Marchant]

I have just noticed that IPCS option 2.4 does not format Linkage 
Stack entries under z/OS 2.1. All I get is this:

LINKAGE STACK ENTRY  00  FROM TCB.  LSED: 7F773010  
 LSEH: 7F773000 
FNXT.   BSEA.   TYPE. 89
RFS.. 0FD0  NES.. 0128  

LINKAGE STACK ENTRY  01  FROM TCB.  LSED: 7F773138  

LINKAGE STACK ENTRY  02  FROM TCB.  LSED: 7F773260  

etc.

Has anyone seen this before? Am I missing something?

-- 
Tom Marchant


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Re: Just a Question On Texting

[George Rodriguez]

​Thanks... It works perfectly! I'm using XMITIP with the phone #...


 *George Rodriguez*
*Specialist II - IT Solutions*
*IT Enterprise Applications*
*PX - 47652*
*(561) 357-7652 (office)*
*(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
*School District of Palm Beach County*
*3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
*Room B-251*
*West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
*Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:42 AM, zMan  wrote:

> Yes, all the cell providers support email-to-text. Google "email to text"
> or "vtext messaging,sprintpcs.com" (no quotes) will likely find it (since
> I
> know offhand that those are the domains for Verizon and Sprint, so that'll
> likely find a page with the rest).
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Burrell, C. Todd (CDC/OCOO/OCIO/ITSO) (CTR)
>  wrote:
>
> > Couldn't you just use SMTP and send an email to the phone?  We used
> > something like that and then just sent an email to
> xx@vtext.comfor Verizon phones and it worked fine (as long as
> SMTP is running).
> >
> > Todd Burrell, PMP, ITIL Expert, CISSP | Project Manager | ITSO AHB |
> > Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
> > Contractor - HP Enterprise Services | 1600 Clifton Rd, Building 21, MS
> > D24, RM 1300 | Atlanta, GA 30338 | 404-971-7275 (Blackberry)
> 404-723-2017(Mobile) |
> > z...@cdc.gov
> >
> >
> > THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY
> > MATERIAL and is for use only by the intended recipient. If you received
> > this in error, please notify the sender and delete the communication from
> > all computers.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> > Behalf Of George Rodriguez
> > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 9:26 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Just a Question On Texting
> >
> > Is there a program that can text a phone, just like XMITIP?
> >
> >  *George Rodriguez*
> > *Specialist II - IT Solutions*
> > *IT Enterprise Applications*
> > *PX - 47652*
> > *(561) 357-7652 (office)*
> > *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
> > *School District of Palm Beach County*
> > *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
> > *Room B-251*
> > *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
> > *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > *Congratulations** Class of 2014
> > !  For Graduation
> > dates, times and locations, click here <
> >
> http://www.palmbeachschools.org/academics/documents/2014PBCGraduationSchedulev304-17-14.pdf
> >.
> >  Watch Graduations Live May
> > 14 - 23 on Comcast 235 and online **.*
> >   * Follow us on *   [image: Facebook]<
> > http://www.palmbeachschools.org/links/facebook.html>
> >   [image: Twitter] 
> > *Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If
> > you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public
> > records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead,
> > contact this office by phone or in writing.
> >
> >
> > --
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> email
> > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
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>
>
>
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>
> --
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-- 


*Congratulations** Class of 2014 
!  For Graduation dates, 
times and locations, click here 
.
  Watch Graduations Live May 
14 - 23 on Comcast 235 and online **.*
  * Follow us on *   [image: 
Facebook]  
  [image: Twitter] 
*Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If 
you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public 
records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, 
contact this office by phone or in writing.


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Re: Just a Question On Texting

[George Rodriguez]

​Thanks... It works perfectly! I'm using XMITIP with the phone #@
messaging.sprintpcs.com since that's who we use...


 *George Rodriguez*
*Specialist II - IT Solutions*
*IT Enterprise Applications*
*PX - 47652*
*(561) 357-7652 (office)*
*(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
*School District of Palm Beach County*
*3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
*Room B-251*
*West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
*Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:44 AM, John McKown wrote:

> We use XMITIP to do that very thing. But it works by sending a email to a
> email-to-SMS-text gateway server "in the cloud" somewhere. Basically we
> send the email from z/OS to our MS Exchange email server with a "name". The
> MS Exchange server transforms that name into something like:
> 8175551...@tmomail.net . The "tmomail.net" is the email to SMS text server
> for the T-Mobile (my cell provider). This server then transforms that into
> an SMS text message which it sends to 817-555-1212 (not my real telephone
> number, not that you're likely to have thought that it was).
> More info at:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_gateway
>
> This references some sort of hardware you might be able to buy, but it
> would be a "server" on your LAN (I guess) not something on the z/OS system
> itself.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:26 AM, George Rodriguez <
> george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org> wrote:
>
> > Is there a program that can text a phone, just like XMITIP?
> >
> >  *George Rodriguez*
> > *Specialist II - IT Solutions*
> > *IT Enterprise Applications*
> > *PX - 47652*
> > *(561) 357-7652 (office)*
> > *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)*
> > *School District of Palm Beach County*
> > *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.*
> > *Room B-251*
> > *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869*
> > *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years*
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > *Congratulations** Class of 2014
> > !  For Graduation
> > dates,
> > times and locations, click here
> > <
> >
> http://www.palmbeachschools.org/academics/documents/2014PBCGraduationSchedulev304-17-14.pdf
> >.
> >  Watch Graduations Live May
> > 14 - 23 on Comcast 235 and online **.*
> >   * Follow us on *   [image: Facebook]<
> > http://www.palmbeachschools.org/links/facebook.html>
> >   [image: Twitter] 
> > *Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If
> > you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public
> > records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead,
> > contact this office by phone or in writing.
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
>
>
> --
> There is nothing more pleasant than traveling and meeting new people!
> Genghis Khan
>
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

-- 


*Congratulations** Class of 2014 
!  For Graduation dates, 
times and locations, click here 
.
  Watch Graduations Live May 
14 - 23 on Comcast 235 and online **.*
  * Follow us on *   [image: 
Facebook]  
  [image: Twitter] 
*Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If 
you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public 
records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, 
contact this office by phone or in writing.


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Re: z/OS FTPS Client & Linux FTP server

[Mark Pace]

I assume it's complete  - I don't see an obvious error.
Digital certificate information for
CERTAUTH:


  Label: Go Daddy Class
2
  Certificate ID:
2QiJmZmDhZmjgceWQMSBhISoQMOTgaKiQPJA
  Status:
TRUST

  Start Date: 2004/06/29
13:06:20
  End Date:   2034/06/29
13:06:20
  Serial
Number:


>00<

  Issuer's
Name:

   >OU=Go Daddy Class 2 Certification Authority.O=The Go Daddy Group,
Inc<

>..C=US<

  Subject's
Name:
   >OU=Go Daddy Class 2 Certification Authority.O=The Go Daddy Group,
Inc<

>..C=US<

  Signing Algorithm:
sha1RSA
  Key Type:
RSA
  Key Size:
2048
  Private Key:
NO
  Ring
Associations:

Ring Owner:
TN3270

Ring:


>TNRING<

Ring Owner:
IBMUSER

Ring:


>FtpSecur<





Wow - that SEARCH CLASS(DIGTCERT)   spewed out a lot of stuff.  I'm not
sure what I was looking for on a cursory glance.  I'll have to study that
one closer.

Question -  The certificate on my FTP server was issued by Go Daddy,  On my
z/OS system (Client)  is all I need the Go Daddy root authority certificate
- or do I need to generate a public key from my FTP server and send to z/OS
to include in a ring?



On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Neubert, Kevin
wrote:

> Is the chain complete?  Check trust and Issuer's/Subject's Names.
>  RACDCERT LIST(LABEL('Go Daddy Class 2')) CERTAUTH.  Do you have all the
> names?  SEARCH CLASS(DIGTCERT).
>
> Regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Mark Pace
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 1:01 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: z/OS FTPS Client & Linux FTP server
>
> Yes, I did the digtcert refresh
>  Digital ring information for user IBMUSER:
>
>Ring:
> >FtpSecur<
>Certificate Label Name Cert Owner USAGE  DEFAULT
>         ---
>GeoTrust Global CA CERTAUTH   CERTAUTH NO
>Go Daddy Class 2   CERTAUTH   CERTAUTH YES
>
>  ***
>
> No ICH408I errors.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Donald J.  wrote:
>
> > You did do a:
> > SETROPTS RACLIST(DIGTCERT) REFRESH
> > after last changing the keyring?
> >
> > What does the LISTRING show now?
> >
> > Does the userid submitting the batch job have any ICH408I errors in
> > the log?
> >
> > --
> >   Donald J.
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
>
>
> --
> The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent
> Mainline’s positions or opinions
>
> Mark D Pace
> Senior Systems Engineer
> Mainline Information Systems
>
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Senior Systems Engineer
Mainline Information Systems

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Re: IPCS Linkage Stack on z/OS 2.1

[Bob Shannon]

> I have just noticed that IPCS option 2.4 does not format Linkage Stack 
> entries under z/OS 2.1

I believe you are picking up an old Parmlib version of IEAVIPCS. Sorry but we 
didn’t document well what we changed. 

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Is it possible to have ADRDSSU dump/copy output files directly onto z/OS USS files ?

[Tsai Laurence]

Dears , as the subject , any resolution ?  need to have the output file
placed onto z/OS USS environment . So that I can using z/OS NFS client to
store those backup output files onto remote servers.

Is it doable ?

tks and regards,
Laurence

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Re: z/OS FTPS Client & Linux FTP server

[Donald J.]

The root cert is all that should be needed on the z/OS side,
if linux side is set up correctly.

But as mentioned in my last email, it doesn't look like the
linux side cert file is complete.  Your server cert is issued
by a GoDaddy intermediate cert, which is issued by a
GoDaddy root cert.  I would guess your linux file only
has the server cert in it, and it needs the intermediate
cert in it as well, and optionally the root cert.

-- 
  Donald J.
  dona...@4email.net

On Thu, May 8, 2014, at 07:31 AM, Mark Pace wrote:
> I assume it's complete  - I don't see an obvious error.
 

-- 
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  http://www.fastmail.fm/help/overview_quotes.html

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Re: Is it possible to have ADRDSSU dump/copy output files directly onto z/OS USS files ?

[Staller, Allan]

Don't know if it is doable, but should be easy to test.

.
.
.
//OUTDD DD PATHOPS (and other appropriate parameters).
//SYSIN DD * *
Dump/copy ds() OUTDD(OUTDD)..
/*

Then attempt  to copy/restore from hfs/zfs/nfs archive for verification.

HTH,

Subject: Is it possible to have ADRDSSU dump/copy output files directly 
onto z/OS USS files ?

Dears , as the subject , any resolution ?  need to have the output file placed 
onto z/OS USS environment . So that I can using z/OS NFS client to store those 
backup output files onto remote servers.


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Re: IPCS Linkage Stack on z/OS 2.1

[Tom Marchant]

On Thu, 8 May 2014 14:36:22 +, Bob Shannon wrote:

>I believe you are picking up an old Parmlib version of IEAVIPCS.

Thanks, Bob. That was it.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: Is it possible to have ADRDSSU dump/copy output files directly onto z/OS USS files ?

[Miklos Szigetvari]

We have this kind of modification , it is in CBT 880.

On 08.05.2014 16:38, Tsai Laurence wrote:

Dears , as the subject , any resolution ?  need to have the output file
placed onto z/OS USS environment . So that I can using z/OS NFS client to
store those backup output files onto remote servers.

Is it doable ?

tks and regards,
Laurence

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--
Kind regards, / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
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Research&  Development
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T: +43(2236) 27551 333, F: +43(2236)21081
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Re: IBM C and Cobol Threading question

[Scott Ford]

John,

As always my friend excellent points. 



I have a follow on question can you pass a created user heap from thread to 
thread ??


Regards,

Scott





From: John McKown
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎May‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎10‎:‎04‎ ‎AM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List





Tom,
Looking here:
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/igy3pg31/4.4

For the data that you want to isolate to an individual program invocation
instance, define the data in the LOCAL-STORAGE SECTION. In general, this
choice is appropriate for working data in threaded programs. If you declare
data in WORKING-STORAGE and your program changes the contents of the data,
you must take one of the following actions:

Structure your application so that you do not access data in
WORKING-STORAGE simultaneously from multiple threads.

If you do access data simultaneously from separate threads, write
appropriate serialization code.


But there doesn't seem to be any hint of how to "write appropriate
serialization code". Too bad COBOL can't declare a variable "ATOMIC" or
have some sort serialization primitive like some other languages. I rather
like the "synchronized" in Java. But, of course, COBOL is not really
designed for multi-threading. If I want to do "heavy duty" threading and
concurrency, I'd choose Clojure. Why? Because it is designed for it _AND_
it runs on the JVM which means it can run on a zAAP.



On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Tom Ross wrote:

> >I have written a C program using threads and have a question. I have an
> ext=
> >ernal message table that I need to be persistent between threads.  The
> mess=
> >age table is loaded from an external QSAM file. Program in Cobol loads
> the =
> >table. I want to be able to use the message table in other threads. Does
> an=
> >yone know is Working-Storage from one thread available to other threads
> ?=20
>
> Yes!  In fact, all of your COBOL threads would be using a single copy of
> WORKING-STORAGE, so if one of them wants to do something that does not
> affect
> the others then the programs need LOCAL-STORAGE variables.  Normally with
> multi-threading you would not use WORKING-STORAGE because of this.  In your
> case, defining your table in WORKING-STORAGE and your other variables in
> LOCAL-STORAGE would work great!
>
> Cheers,
> TomR  >> COBOL is the Language of the Future! <<
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: PFA (Now, an HZR subject)

[Miklos Szigetvari]

Hi

 Looking into the "Runtime Diagnostic", some question's:
 Who is issuing the ANALYZE command, and how often ?
For me the answer in an idle z9 comes in about 3-4 seconds with "NO 
EVENTS" , but any way to trigger something if

there would be some event ?

On 07.05.2014 14:37, Dana Mitchell wrote:

On Wed, 7 May 2014 12:08:27 +0200, R.S.  wrote:

Side question: where is it documented? I mean Runtime Diagnostic
documentation.
I can't find the manual.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland

Radoslaw,

I found it in the z/OS 1.13 "Info center"  and the heading on the section "Enabling 
Runtime Diagnostics" states:

z/OS Problem Management
G325-2564-09

Dana

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Research&  Development
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Alter Wienerweg 12, A-2344 Maria Enzersdorf, Austria
T: +43(2236) 27551 333, F: +43(2236)21081
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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Mike Schwab]

There was an evaluation version of z/VM that was bootable from a DVD
in the HMC.  I would give that a shot.

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 7:05 PM, Ed Finnell  wrote:
> Think the key is get a working VM system by whatever means available. From
> there validate IO config.
> Attach a few devices and see if they've got any data. Make a z/OS guest
> with required devices and see if it will fly.
>
>
> In a message dated 5/7/2014 5:54:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> jperr...@pacbell.net writes:
>
> If the  original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
> damaged. You  could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the 
> starter
> system.
> If in the worst case, you should still be able to  re-use existing volumes.
> Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead  of purging and
> reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you have
> access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to retain
> existing user  volumes.
>
>
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[August Carideo/RYE/US]

Why do you need a op system to validate the I/O ?
You should be able to see the CHPID's that are online and operating from the HMC
The CE should be able to do this from single object mode or from service mode
As mentioned if DASD looks OK, it is just a matter of accessing it
You can build a new I/O gen standalone with just enough devices to get the 
system up
This is all what if - being a lot of info was not supplied
But if you can't just change the load address and IPL from a utility tape 
sounds like it can't even find the drive
Which points to I/O config
3 dif utils can be tried ICKDSF only needs the tape drive and a console, same 
w/ DDR, or SA VM image Loader
All depends how tape was created , if tape is in doubt maybe there is a orig 
install tape floating around, 
But once again was it install from tape or CD etc. lots of unknowns here


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Finnell
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 8:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

Think the key is get a working VM system by whatever means available. From 
there validate IO config.
Attach a few devices and see if they've got any data. Make a z/OS guest with 
required devices and see if it will fly.
 
 
In a message dated 5/7/2014 5:54:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time, 
jperr...@pacbell.net writes:

If the  original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got damaged. 
You  could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the starter  
system.
If in the worst case, you should still be able to  re-use existing volumes. 
Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead  of purging and 
reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you have 
access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to retain 
existing user  volumes.


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Re: IBM C and Cobol Threading question

[John Gilmore]

The distinction between COBOL's distinction of WORKING-STORAGE and
LOCAL-STORAGE is essentially the same as the PL/I and then C
distinction of static and automatic storage.

As far as I can judge from earlier posts in this thread the shared
facility is not a dynamic shared control block; it is a  read-only
table; and the serialization of accesses to such a table is required
only if it is replaced from time to time DURING the execution of the
multithreaded application.

Serialization is possible from, although not within, COBOL.  One
writes a pair of simple COBOL-callable assembly-language to do it; and
it is also possible and useful to write such a pair of subroutines to
LOAD and DELETE [load module or program object] tables.

In general, then, Mr. Perryman and I disagree, as we often have.  His
generic strictures, which would interdict all mixed-language
applications, are simplistic.


John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: IBM C and Cobol Threading question

[Scott Ford]

Jon,


Its not my call ….I am only the guy asking the questions. 









From: Jon Perryman
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎May‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎10‎:‎05‎ ‎AM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List





I personally would STRONGLY discourage this implementation. You're not the only 
one in your environment.

Why not do it correctly and allocate from shared storage pool. Use either C's 
or assemblers implementation. Remember if you do it once, someone else will 
think this clever and use it without fully understanding why it works.


The Cobol guide has a section on multithreading. I've never read it but you 
should at least follow it's guidelines.

Yes it will work but it's not even done this way in C and we should not do this 
in assembler. Multi-tasking is allowed in assembler (ATTACH) and C (threading) 
but not in most other languages. By violating C's implementation of global 
variables, you are doing something they don't expect. Cobol user's don't 
multi-task so they are not familiar with this. In the best error situation you 
get an abend. In the worst, some other threads storage will get stomped on and 
the receivng program will reference bad data. 

Jon Perryman


On Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:02 PM, Tom Ross  
wrote:
 
>I have written a C program using threads and have a question. I have an ext=
>>ernal message table that I need to be persistent between threads.  The mess=
>>age table is loaded from an external QSAM file. Program in Cobol loads the =
>>table. I want to be able to use the message table in other threads. Does an=
>>yone know is Working-Storage from one thread available to other threads ?=20
>
>Yes!  In fact, all of your COBOL threads would be using a single copy of
>WORKING-STORAGE, so if one of them wants to do something that does not affect
>the others then the programs need LOCAL-STORAGE variables.  Normally with
>multi-threading you would not use WORKING-STORAGE because of this.  In your
>case, defining your table in WORKING-STORAGE and your other variables in
>LOCAL-STORAGE would work great!
>

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The VM Workshop Seeks Your Input

[Mike Walter]

Hi friends,

The VM Workshop is asking the community to take a 12 question survey to help us 
better understand the current state of your VM/Linux initiatives. The responses 
will be used to help us focus session content, and will be shared at the 
Workshop. Those who participate will get the results of the survey via email.

Please visit the included link, and thank you for your participation! 
https://www.research.net/s/vmworkshop

Mike Walter
Aon Corporation
The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not necessarily those of my 
employer.

Sent on behalf of the VM Workshop Volunteer Committee

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Karl Severson]

>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got 
damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the starter 
system.
If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes. 
Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and 
reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you have 
access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to retain 
>existing user volumes.

Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from tape or 
disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this starter 
system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.

>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that CD and 
>use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL required 
>volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as to what is 
>>actually broken.

I’ll pass this on to the customer

>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration issue. If 
>the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not responsible. On the 
>other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware support is responsible 
>and if there is a software bug then software support is responsible. Everyone 
>is responsible to point the figure at someone else so they don't have to deal 
>with it. If you point the finger at support hard enough, they may resolve the 
>issue for you.

If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this system, then 
yes, they are responsible. 

It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.

>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware 
>console (temporarily).

The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before that. We 
had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I made the service 
call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to determine if it was a hardware 
or software bug and go from there. At this point, no one knows if it’s an IOCDS 
problem or any other for that matter. Unfortunately I did not set this machine 
up and know very little about it. I know the zVM and  Computer Associates parts 
obviously but with matters of the HMC, IOCDS, etc., I know very little as IBM 
came in and set all of that up. One guy, ONE guy came in and set up the HMC, 
DS6800, installed zVM and because the compiler tapes weren’t delivered yet, 
another person from the same department came out and installed Fortran, PASCAL, 
etc. Now, these are the people, or someone like them that ought to be able to 
determine what’s going on with the system. I’m 1300 miles away and can’t be 
away from SoCal (I work and live here after all) on an open ended trip until 
this gets sorted out though I know this would be a great learning experience if 
I could be there for the duration. No one at the site is an IBMer – they’re all 
Windows or Linux people who take care of things like backups and account 
maintenance although I can do a lot of that via a link assuming the system is 
up. This would probably be a great time to have a remote HMC! Maybe as a result 
of this problem, the customer will buy one.

Regarding the system being down for three weeks, there is one fall back and 
that’s for the users to come to SoCal and use our legacy machine. At some point 
after the z10 gets back on its feet, any updates will be sent back to OKC and 
the z10 will be “caught up.”

>There was an evaluation version of z/VM that was bootable from a DVD
>in the HMC.  I would give that a shot.

I’ll contact the customer and see if they can find this.
Thanks for all of the great posts!
Karl

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Matthew Stitt]

You do not need a remote HMC.  You just need to have the local HMC available 
through the Internet with remote access allowed.  I do this all the time.  
Could save you some time if that could happen.

On Thu, 8 May 2014 12:39:37 -0500, Karl Severson  
wrote:

>>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got 
>damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the 
>starter system.
>If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes. 
>Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and 
>reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you have 
>access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to retain 
>>existing user volumes.
>
>Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from tape 
>or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this starter 
>system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
>
>>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that CD and 
>>use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL required 
>>volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as to what is 
>>>actually broken.
>
>I’ll pass this on to the customer
>
>>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration issue. If 
>>the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not responsible. On the 
>>other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware support is responsible 
>>and if there is a software bug then software support is responsible. Everyone 
>>is responsible to point the figure at someone else so they don't have to deal 
>>with it. If you point the finger at support hard enough, they may resolve the 
>>issue for you.
>
>If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this system, 
>then yes, they are responsible. 
>
>It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.
>
>>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware 
>>console (temporarily).
>
>The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before that. We 
>had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I made the service 
>call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to determine if it was a hardware 
>or software bug and go from there. At this point, no one knows if it’s an 
>IOCDS problem or any other for that matter. Unfortunately I did not set this 
>machine up and know very little about it. I know the zVM and  Computer 
>Associates parts obviously but with matters of the HMC, IOCDS, etc., I know 
>very little as IBM came in and set all of that up. One guy, ONE guy came in 
>and set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because the compiler tapes 
>weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same department came out and 
>installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the people, or someone like 
>them that ought to be able to determine what’s going on with the system. I’m 
>1300 miles away and can’t be away from SoCal (I work and live here after all) 
>on an open ended trip until this gets sorted out though I know this would be a 
>great learning experience if I could be there for the duration. No one at the 
>site is an IBMer – they’re all Windows or Linux people who take care of things 
>like backups and account maintenance although I can do a lot of that via a 
>link assuming the system is up. This would probably be a great time to have a 
>remote HMC! Maybe as a result of this problem, the customer will buy one.
>
>Regarding the system being down for three weeks, there is one fall back and 
>that’s for the users to come to SoCal and use our legacy machine. At some 
>point after the z10 gets back on its feet, any updates will be sent back to 
>OKC and the z10 will be “caught up.”
>
>>There was an evaluation version of z/VM that was bootable from a DVD
>>in the HMC.  I would give that a shot.
>
>I’ll contact the customer and see if they can find this.
>Thanks for all of the great posts!
>Karl

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Agreed - I couldn't support my environment without remote HMC access.

Jerry Whitteridge
Lead Systems Programmer
Safeway Inc.
925 951 4184

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Matthew Stitt
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 10:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

You do not need a remote HMC.  You just need to have the local HMC available 
through the Internet with remote access allowed.  I do this all the time.  
Could save you some time if that could happen.

On Thu, 8 May 2014 12:39:37 -0500, Karl Severson  
wrote:

>>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got 
>damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the 
>starter system.
>If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes. 
>Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and 
>reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you have 
>access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to retain 
>>existing user volumes.
>
>Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from tape 
>or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this starter 
>system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
>
>>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that CD and 
>>use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL required 
>>volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as to what is 
>>>actually broken.
>
>I’ll pass this on to the customer
>
>>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration issue. If 
>>the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not responsible. On the 
>>other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware support is responsible 
>>and if there is a software bug then software support is responsible. Everyone 
>>is responsible to point the figure at someone else so they don't have to deal 
>>with it. If you point the finger at support hard enough, they may resolve the 
>>issue for you.
>
>If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this system, 
>then yes, they are responsible. 
>
>It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.
>
>>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware 
>>console (temporarily).
>
>The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before that. We 
>had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I made the service 
>call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to determine if it was a hardware 
>or software bug and go from there. At this point, no one knows if it’s an 
>IOCDS problem or any other for that matter. Unfortunately I did not set this 
>machine up and know very little about it. I know the zVM and  Computer 
>Associates parts obviously but with matters of the HMC, IOCDS, etc., I know 
>very little as IBM came in and set all of that up. One guy, ONE guy came in 
>and set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because the compiler tapes 
>weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same department came out and 
>installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the people, or someone like 
>them that ought to be able to determine what’s going on with the system. I’m 
>1300 miles away and can’t be away from SoCal (I work and live here after all) 
>on an open ended trip until this gets sorted out though I know this would be a 
>great learning experience if I could be there for the duration. No one at the 
>site is an IBMer – they’re all Windows or Linux people who take care of things 
>like backups and account maintenance although I can do a lot of that via a 
>link assuming the system is up. This would probably be a great time to have a 
>remote HMC! Maybe as a result of this problem, the customer will buy one.
>
>Regarding the system being down for three weeks, there is one fall back and 
>that’s for the users to come to SoCal and use our legacy machine. At some 
>point after the z10 gets back on its feet, any updates will be sent back to 
>OKC and the z10 will be “caught up.”
>
>>There was an evaluation version of z/VM that was bootable from a DVD
>>in the HMC.  I would give that a shot.
>
>I’ll contact the customer and see if they can find this.
>Thanks for all of the great posts!
>Karl

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Alan Altmark]

On Wed, 7 May 2014 20:05:58 -0400, Ed Finnell  wrote:
>Think the key is get a working VM system by whatever means available. From
>there validate IO config.

The only z/VM things you can IPL from tape are a z/VM installation tape, IOCP, 
ICKDSF, DDR, and standalone dump.   Tape volumes created by DDR are not IPLable 
unless you go through a specific process to place DDR on the front of the tape. 
  You can also IPL the z/VM installation DVD and use the starter system.

If the IPLable utility tape was created on a labeled tape, then it isn't going 
to work and you have no choice but to IPL the installation media.  (A power 
outage isn't going to affect a tape that's not in a drive.)

The thing about recovery procedures is that you need to test them before you 
need them!

Alan Altmark
IBM Lab Services
z/VM Consultant

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Gibney, Dave]

The ZZSA idea and remote access to their HMC (or a plane ticket) are the two 
tools you need for this problem.



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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[John McKown]

Right. At our shop, we have a Microsoft "Terminal Services Gateway" server.
At home, on one of my laptops, I can connect over the Internet to this "TSG
Gateway". This then relays me to my local desktop (I know the OP doesn't
have a local desktop, he could go to some other desktop). I am now
interacting with that desktop, as if I were local. I bring up I.E. and
connect (locally) to the HMC, which is on the LAN. At that point, I can IPL
and do other things on the HMC (such as use the SYSC and SYSG z/VM
consoles. Well, if we had z/VM).

Given what the OP has said, I would _not_ be surprised if the IBM people
who installed the z did not bother to connect the HMC to the LAN. I know
that _we_ had a big fight putting the z9BC's HMC on the LAN. I'll not say
more. I'm still very bitter towards those ex-employees.


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Matthew Stitt wrote:

> You do not need a remote HMC.  You just need to have the local HMC
> available through the Internet with remote access allowed.  I do this all
> the time.  Could save you some time if that could happen.
>
> On Thu, 8 May 2014 12:39:37 -0500, Karl Severson <
> karl_j_sever...@raytheon.com> wrote:
>
> >>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
> >damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the
> starter system.
> >If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes.
> >Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and
> >reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you
> have
> >access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to
> retain
> >>existing user volumes.
> >
> >Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from
> tape or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this
> starter system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
> >
> >>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that CD
> and use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL required
> volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as to what is
> >actually broken.
> >
> >I’ll pass this on to the customer
> >
> >>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration
> issue. If the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not
> responsible. On the other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware
> support is responsible and if there is a software bug then software support
> is responsible. Everyone is responsible to point the figure at someone else
> so they don't have to deal with it. If you point the finger at support hard
> enough, they may resolve the issue for you.
> >
> >If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this
> system, then yes, they are responsible.
> >
> >It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.
> >
> >>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware
> console (temporarily).
> >
> >The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before
> that. We had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I made
> the service call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to determine if it
> was a hardware or software bug and go from there. At this point, no one
> knows if it’s an IOCDS problem or any other for that matter. Unfortunately
> I did not set this machine up and know very little about it. I know the zVM
> and  Computer Associates parts obviously but with matters of the HMC,
> IOCDS, etc., I know very little as IBM came in and set all of that up. One
> guy, ONE guy came in and set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because
> the compiler tapes weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same
> department came out and installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the
> people, or someone like them that ought to be able to determine what’s
> going on with the system. I’m 1300 miles away and can’t be away from SoCal
> (I work and live here after all) on an open ended trip until this gets
> sorted out though I know this would be a great learning experience if I
> could be there for the duration. No one at the site is an IBMer – they’re
> all Windows or Linux people who take care of things like backups and
> account maintenance although I can do a lot of that via a link assuming the
> system is up. This would probably be a great time to have a remote HMC!
> Maybe as a result of this problem, the customer will buy one.
> >
> >Regarding the system being down for three weeks, there is one fall back
> and that’s for the users to come to SoCal and use our legacy machine. At
> some point after the z10 gets back on its feet, any updates will be sent
> back to OKC and the z10 will be “caught up.”
> >
> >>There was an evaluation version of z/VM that was bootable from a DVD
> >>in the HMC.  I would give that a shot.
> >
> >I’ll contact the customer and see if they can find this.
> >Thanks for all of the great posts!
> >Karl
>
> 

BPX.DEFAULT.USER and CICS

[David Johnston]

We are prepping for an upgrade to z/OS 2.1.  We have performed the required 
changes to remove the use of BPX.DEFAULT.USER.
 
This has caused multiple loggings from our CICS regions against the region 
LOGONID.  I have been told our ACF2 configuration is incorrect, but have not 
received information on what is correct.
 
This is our environment (values are examples):
 
Region LOGONID = aaa; SIT DFLTUSER = b.
ACF2 DEFAULT TERMINAL = aaa; ACF2 DEFAULT NONTERMINAL = b.
 
When we add RESTRICTIONS GROUP(OMVSDFTG) to the lid aa, then transactions 
that used to run as b switch to aaa.
 
Has anyone else experienced this problem? Or
Does someone have a better description than what is in the ACF2 manuals on the 
proper setting of these 2 ACF2 IDs and how they should correlate with the 
region?

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Mike Schwab]

http://www.vm.ibm.com/eval/ is the page to download the evaluation
z/VM ?5.3?). Or ordering 5.2, 5.3, 6.1.  Get the file downloaded and
burned on a DVD-R by the local staff and inserted into the DVD drive.

http://www.cbttape.org/~jjaeger/zzsa.html Is the stand alone ZZSA files.  CD-R.

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Karl Severson
 wrote:
>>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
> damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the 
> starter system.
> If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes.
> Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and
> reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you have
> access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to retain
>>existing user volumes.
>
> Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from tape 
> or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this starter 
> system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
>
>>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that CD and 
>>use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL required 
>>volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as to what is 
>>>actually broken.
>
> I’ll pass this on to the customer
>
>>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration issue. If 
>>the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not responsible. On the 
>>other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware support is responsible 
>>and if there is a software bug then software support is responsible. Everyone 
>>is responsible to point the figure at someone else so they don't have to deal 
>>with it. If you point the finger at support hard enough, they may resolve the 
>>issue for you.
>
> If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this system, 
> then yes, they are responsible.
>
> It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.
>
>>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware 
>>console (temporarily).
>
> The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before that. 
> We had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I made the 
> service call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to determine if it was a 
> hardware or software bug and go from there. At this point, no one knows if 
> it’s an IOCDS problem or any other for that matter. Unfortunately I did not 
> set this machine up and know very little about it. I know the zVM and  
> Computer Associates parts obviously but with matters of the HMC, IOCDS, etc., 
> I know very little as IBM came in and set all of that up. One guy, ONE guy 
> came in and set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because the compiler 
> tapes weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same department came out 
> and installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the people, or someone 
> like them that ought to be able to determine what’s going on with the system. 
> I’m 1300 miles away and can’t be away from SoCal (I work and live here after 
> all) on an open ended trip until this gets sorted out though I know this 
> would be a great learning experience if I could be there for the duration. No 
> one at the site is an IBMer – they’re all Windows or Linux people who take 
> care of things like backups and account maintenance although I can do a lot 
> of that via a link assuming the system is up. This would probably be a great 
> time to have a remote HMC! Maybe as a result of this problem, the customer 
> will buy one.
>
> Regarding the system being down for three weeks, there is one fall back and 
> that’s for the users to come to SoCal and use our legacy machine. At some 
> point after the z10 gets back on its feet, any updates will be sent back to 
> OKC and the z10 will be “caught up.”
>
>>There was an evaluation version of z/VM that was bootable from a DVD
>>in the HMC.  I would give that a shot.
>
> I’ll contact the customer and see if they can find this.
> Thanks for all of the great posts!
> Karl
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: IBM C and Cobol Threading question

[Scott Ford]

Jon,


Can you point me to the shared memory you spoke of in C …I would prefer to 
write this in C / Assembler…get away from

Cobol, not that I don't like it. We are a small vendor ….



It would be much appreciated







From: John McKown
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎May‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎10‎:‎04‎ ‎AM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List





Tom,
Looking here:
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/igy3pg31/4.4

For the data that you want to isolate to an individual program invocation
instance, define the data in the LOCAL-STORAGE SECTION. In general, this
choice is appropriate for working data in threaded programs. If you declare
data in WORKING-STORAGE and your program changes the contents of the data,
you must take one of the following actions:

Structure your application so that you do not access data in
WORKING-STORAGE simultaneously from multiple threads.

If you do access data simultaneously from separate threads, write
appropriate serialization code.


But there doesn't seem to be any hint of how to "write appropriate
serialization code". Too bad COBOL can't declare a variable "ATOMIC" or
have some sort serialization primitive like some other languages. I rather
like the "synchronized" in Java. But, of course, COBOL is not really
designed for multi-threading. If I want to do "heavy duty" threading and
concurrency, I'd choose Clojure. Why? Because it is designed for it _AND_
it runs on the JVM which means it can run on a zAAP.



On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 1:02 AM, Tom Ross wrote:

> >I have written a C program using threads and have a question. I have an
> ext=
> >ernal message table that I need to be persistent between threads.  The
> mess=
> >age table is loaded from an external QSAM file. Program in Cobol loads
> the =
> >table. I want to be able to use the message table in other threads. Does
> an=
> >yone know is Working-Storage from one thread available to other threads
> ?=20
>
> Yes!  In fact, all of your COBOL threads would be using a single copy of
> WORKING-STORAGE, so if one of them wants to do something that does not
> affect
> the others then the programs need LOCAL-STORAGE variables.  Normally with
> multi-threading you would not use WORKING-STORAGE because of this.  In your
> case, defining your table in WORKING-STORAGE and your other variables in
> LOCAL-STORAGE would work great!
>
> Cheers,
> TomR  >> COBOL is the Language of the Future! <<
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



-- 
There is nothing more pleasant than traveling and meeting new people!
Genghis Khan

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[August Carideo/RYE/US]

And where is this DVD going to load to if cpu / lpar whatever is not seeing any 
devices ?
To single line edit mode on HMC
Can't even get to ICC if OSA /OSC is not reconized 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 2:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

http://www.vm.ibm.com/eval/ is the page to download the evaluation z/VM ?5.3?). 
Or ordering 5.2, 5.3, 6.1.  Get the file downloaded and burned on a DVD-R by 
the local staff and inserted into the DVD drive.

http://www.cbttape.org/~jjaeger/zzsa.html Is the stand alone ZZSA files.  CD-R.

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Karl Severson  
wrote:
>>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
> damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the 
> starter system.
> If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes.
> Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and 
> reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you 
> have access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  
> to retain
>>existing user volumes.
>
> Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from tape 
> or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this starter 
> system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
>
>>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that CD and 
>>use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL required 
>>volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as to what is 
>>>actually broken.
>
> I’ll pass this on to the customer
>
>>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration issue. If 
>>the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not responsible. On the 
>>other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware support is responsible 
>>and if there is a software bug then software support is responsible. Everyone 
>>is responsible to point the figure at someone else so they don't have to deal 
>>with it. If you point the finger at support hard enough, they may resolve the 
>>issue for you.
>
> If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this system, 
> then yes, they are responsible.
>
> It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.
>
>>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware 
>>console (temporarily).
>
> The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before that. 
> We had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I made the 
> service call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to determine if it was a 
> hardware or software bug and go from there. At this point, no one knows if 
> it’s an IOCDS problem or any other for that matter. Unfortunately I did not 
> set this machine up and know very little about it. I know the zVM and  
> Computer Associates parts obviously but with matters of the HMC, IOCDS, etc., 
> I know very little as IBM came in and set all of that up. One guy, ONE guy 
> came in and set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because the compiler 
> tapes weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same department came out 
> and installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the people, or someone 
> like them that ought to be able to determine what’s going on with the system. 
> I’m 1300 miles away and can’t be away from SoCal (I work and live here after 
> all) on an open ended trip until this gets sorted out though I know this 
> would be a great learning experience if I could be there for the duration. No 
> one at the site is an IBMer – they’re all Windows or Linux people who take 
> care of things like backups and account maintenance although I can do a lot 
> of that via a link assuming the system is up. This would probably be a great 
> time to have a remote HMC! Maybe as a result of this problem, the customer 
> will buy one.
>
> Regarding the system being down for three weeks, there is one fall back and 
> that’s for the users to come to SoCal and use our legacy machine. At some 
> point after the z10 gets back on its feet, any updates will be sent back to 
> OKC and the z10 will be “caught up.”
>
>>There was an evaluation version of z/VM that was bootable from a DVD 
>>in the HMC.  I would give that a shot.
>
> I’ll contact the customer and see if they can find this.
> Thanks for all of the great posts!
> Karl
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructio

Re: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Mike Schwab]

It reads from the DVD into RAM.  No disk devices needed.

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:00 PM, August Carideo/RYE/US
 wrote:
> And where is this DVD going to load to if cpu / lpar whatever is not seeing 
> any devices ?
> To single line edit mode on HMC
> Can't even get to ICC if OSA /OSC is not reconized
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Mike Schwab
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 2:43 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape
>
> http://www.vm.ibm.com/eval/ is the page to download the evaluation z/VM 
> ?5.3?). Or ordering 5.2, 5.3, 6.1.  Get the file downloaded and burned on a 
> DVD-R by the local staff and inserted into the DVD drive.
>
> http://www.cbttape.org/~jjaeger/zzsa.html Is the stand alone ZZSA files.  
> CD-R.
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Karl Severson  
> wrote:
>>>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
>> damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the 
>> starter system.
>> If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes.
>> Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and
>> reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you
>> have access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able
>> to retain
>>>existing user volumes.
>>
>> Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from tape 
>> or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this starter 
>> system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
>>
>>>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that CD and 
>>>use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL required 
>>>volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as to what is 
actually broken.
>>
>> I’ll pass this on to the customer
>>
>>>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration issue. If 
>>>the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not responsible. On 
>>>the other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware support is 
>>>responsible and if there is a software bug then software support is 
>>>responsible. Everyone is responsible to point the figure at someone else so 
>>>they don't have to deal with it. If you point the finger at support hard 
>>>enough, they may resolve the issue for you.
>>
>> If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this system, 
>> then yes, they are responsible.
>>
>> It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.
>>
>>>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware 
>>>console (temporarily).
>>
>> The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before that. 
>> We had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I made the 
>> service call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to determine if it was 
>> a hardware or software bug and go from there. At this point, no one knows if 
>> it’s an IOCDS problem or any other for that matter. Unfortunately I did not 
>> set this machine up and know very little about it. I know the zVM and  
>> Computer Associates parts obviously but with matters of the HMC, IOCDS, 
>> etc., I know very little as IBM came in and set all of that up. One guy, ONE 
>> guy came in and set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because the 
>> compiler tapes weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same 
>> department came out and installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the 
>> people, or someone like them that ought to be able to determine what’s going 
>> on with the system. I’m 1300 miles away and can’t be away from SoCal (I work 
>> and live here after all) on an open ended trip until this gets sorted out 
>> though I know this would be a great learning experience if I could be there 
>> for the duration. No one at the site is an IBMer – they’re all Windows or 
>> Linux people who take care of things like backups and account maintenance 
>> although I can do a lot of that via a link assuming the system is up. This 
>> would probably be a great time to have a remote HMC! Maybe as a result of 
>> this problem, the customer will buy one.
>>
>> Regarding the system being down for three weeks, there is one fall back and 
>> that’s for the users to come to SoCal and use our legacy machine. At some 
>> point after the z10 gets back on its feet, any updates will be sent back to 
>> OKC and the z10 will be “caught up.”
>>
>>>There was an evaluation version of z/VM that was bootable from a DVD
>>>in the HMC.  I would give that a shot.
>>
>> I’ll contact the customer and see if they can find this.
>> Thanks for all of the great posts!
>> Karl
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
>> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[August Carideo/RYE/US]

Our auditors will not allow remote access to the HMC's
But in his case if they expected him to support it remotely probably a 
different  story

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 2:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

Right. At our shop, we have a Microsoft "Terminal Services Gateway" server.
At home, on one of my laptops, I can connect over the Internet to this "TSG 
Gateway". This then relays me to my local desktop (I know the OP doesn't have a 
local desktop, he could go to some other desktop). I am now interacting with 
that desktop, as if I were local. I bring up I.E. and connect (locally) to the 
HMC, which is on the LAN. At that point, I can IPL and do other things on the 
HMC (such as use the SYSC and SYSG z/VM consoles. Well, if we had z/VM).

Given what the OP has said, I would _not_ be surprised if the IBM people who 
installed the z did not bother to connect the HMC to the LAN. I know that _we_ 
had a big fight putting the z9BC's HMC on the LAN. I'll not say more. I'm still 
very bitter towards those ex-employees.


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Matthew Stitt wrote:

> You do not need a remote HMC.  You just need to have the local HMC 
> available through the Internet with remote access allowed.  I do this 
> all the time.  Could save you some time if that could happen.
>
> On Thu, 8 May 2014 12:39:37 -0500, Karl Severson < 
> karl_j_sever...@raytheon.com> wrote:
>
> >>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
> >damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from 
> >the
> starter system.
> >If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes.
> >Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and 
> >reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If 
> >you
> have
> >access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to
> retain
> >>existing user volumes.
> >
> >Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL 
> >from
> tape or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have 
> this starter system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
> >
> >>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL 
> >>that CD
> and use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL 
> required volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea 
> as to what is
> >actually broken.
> >
> >I’ll pass this on to the customer
> >
> >>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration
> issue. If the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not 
> responsible. On the other hand, if the problem is hardware, then 
> hardware support is responsible and if there is a software bug then 
> software support is responsible. Everyone is responsible to point the 
> figure at someone else so they don't have to deal with it. If you 
> point the finger at support hard enough, they may resolve the issue for you.
> >
> >If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this
> system, then yes, they are responsible.
> >
> >It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.
> >
> >>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the 
> >>hardware
> console (temporarily).
> >
> >The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before
> that. We had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I 
> made the service call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to 
> determine if it was a hardware or software bug and go from there. At 
> this point, no one knows if it’s an IOCDS problem or any other for 
> that matter. Unfortunately I did not set this machine up and know very 
> little about it. I know the zVM and  Computer Associates parts 
> obviously but with matters of the HMC, IOCDS, etc., I know very little 
> as IBM came in and set all of that up. One guy, ONE guy came in and 
> set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because the compiler tapes 
> weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same department came 
> out and installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the people, or 
> someone like them that ought to be able to determine what’s going on 
> with the system. I’m 1300 miles away and can’t be away from SoCal (I 
> work and live here after all) on an open ended trip until this gets 
> sorted out though I know this would be a great learning experience if 
> I could be there for the duration. No one at the site is an IBMer – 
> they’re all Windows or Linux people who take care of things like 
> backups and account maintenance although I can do a lot of that via a link 
> assuming the system is up. This would probably be a great time to have a 
> remote HMC!
> Maybe as a result of this problem, the customer will buy one.
> >
> >Regarding the system being down for three weeks, there is one 

Vendor Source Code

[Dno]

Hi,

> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the t's 
> and c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my previous 
> job we did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never understand why, 
> so I'm asking if anyone our there does this and for what reason. If the 
> company went out of business what would the source code do for us? Would we 
> give it to another third party to maintain for us? I appreciate the feedback.

Thanks,
Dean

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Mitch]

Dean,

I have worked for vendors that dealt with this.  Typically, a contract addendum 
or stipulation is added so that the vendor software is kept at a 3rd party site 
in escrow.

Mitch McCluhan,
Legacy Modernization Consultant
www.lcmg.us



-Original Message-
From: Dno 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Thu, May 8, 2014 1:18 pm
Subject: Vendor Source Code


Hi,
> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the t's 
nd c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my previous job 
e did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never understand why, so I'm 
sking if anyone our there does this and for what reason. If the company went 
ut of business what would the source code do for us? Would we give it to 
nother third party to maintain for us? I appreciate the feedback.
Thanks,
ean
Sent from my iPhone
-
or IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
end email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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Re: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Skip Robinson]

We recently upgraded z/VM to 6.2. I downloaded the product from 
ShopzSeries. Burning a DVD turned into drawn-out PMR. See SHARE Anaheim 
proceedings for session 14648: Bit Bucket x'2E' beginning at slide 75. 
Upshot was that you have to use software that understands and creates ISO 
images. The DVD burner on my company-issued PC just created 1200+ files 
exactly as they existed on my C drive. HMC Load function could not 
recognize the DVD contents.

Also note that you can only load a DVD from an actual HMC, remote or 
local.. I do most of my HMC work on a PC via web browser. Load does not 
work there.

However, what you'll get is a running z/VM image in RAM. What will you do 
with that? If DASD volumes are fully accessible but 'merely 
corrupted'--highly unlikely--you could use this image to create a whole 
new z/VM environment on DASD. If the problem is in the hardware 
configuration itself, you're no closer to a real solution. OTOH we do all 
z/VM hardware configuration from an adjacent z/OS, so there may be native 
z/VM facilities that I'm not aware of. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com



From:   Mike Schwab 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, 
Date:   05/08/2014 12:14 PM
Subject:Re: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 



It reads from the DVD into RAM.  No disk devices needed.

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:00 PM, August Carideo/RYE/US
 wrote:
> And where is this DVD going to load to if cpu / lpar whatever is not 
seeing any devices ?
> To single line edit mode on HMC
> Can't even get to ICC if OSA /OSC is not reconized
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
Behalf Of Mike Schwab
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 2:43 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape
>
> http://www.vm.ibm.com/eval/ is the page to download the evaluation z/VM 
?5.3?). Or ordering 5.2, 5.3, 6.1.  Get the file downloaded and burned on 
a DVD-R by the local staff and inserted into the DVD drive.
>
> http://www.cbttape.org/~jjaeger/zzsa.html Is the stand alone ZZSA files. 
 CD-R.
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Karl Severson 
 wrote:
>>>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
>> damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the 
starter system.
>> If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing 
volumes.
>> Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and
>> reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you
>> have access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able
>> to retain
>>>existing user volumes.
>>
>> Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from 
tape or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this 
starter system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
>>
>>>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that 
CD and use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL 
required volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as 
to what is >actually broken.
>>
>> I’ll pass this on to the customer
>>
>>>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration 
issue. If the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not 
responsible. On the other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware 
support is responsible and if there is a software bug then software 
support is responsible. Everyone is responsible to point the figure at 
someone else so they don't have to deal with it. If you point the finger 
at support hard enough, they may resolve the issue for you.
>>
>> If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this 
system, then yes, they are responsible.
>>
>> It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not 
screaming.
>>
>>>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware 
console (temporarily).
>>
>> The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before 
that. We had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I made 
the service call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to determine if 
it was a hardware or software bug and go from there. At this point, no one 
knows if it’s an IOCDS problem or any other for that matter. Unfortunately 
I did not set this machine up and know very little about it. I know the 
zVM and  Computer Associates parts obviously but with matters of the HMC, 
IOCDS, etc., I know very little as IBM came in and set all of that up. One 
guy, ONE guy came in and set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because 
the compiler tapes weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same 
department came out and installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the 
people, or someone like them that ought

Re: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[R.S.]

W dniu 2014-05-08 21:23, August Carideo/RYE/US pisze:

Our auditors will not allow remote access to the HMC's


And the justification to the restriction is?


Every access means some flexibility, some productivity, some gain and - 
form the other hand - some risk. The safest system is system completeley 
unavailable, unconnected from the networks, shut down. With no data to 
be stolen. Every business activity provides some risk. The point is to 
give as much productivity as possible without significant risks.




BTW: HMC access does not make any risk to the data, no business data is 
available thorugh the HMC (maybe except D A,L). This interface could 
only be considered in terms of DOS attacks, like system shutdown.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






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jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be 
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immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl 
Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2014 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.696.052 złote.



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Re: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[R.S.]

W dniu 2014-05-08 21:00, August Carideo/RYE/US pisze:

And where is this DVD going to load to if cpu / lpar whatever is not seeing any 
devices ?
To single line edit mode on HMC
Can't even get to ICC if OSA /OSC is not reconized

Well, hard scenario.
Actually you can IPL from DVD, (*no! it's ftp from YOUR workstation!* 
DVD stinks!), but what is the reason of starting anything from DVD, when 
no device is available? You won't fix anything. What you need as a 
prerequisite is at least simple working IOCDS.



BTW: I admit I did not follow the discussion, but it seems high unlikely 
to lost IOCDS and working z/OS image. You can screw up the z/OS, you can 
destroy your IOCDS, but you cannot destroy both in one erroneous action!


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






--
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niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
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mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl 
Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2014 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.696.052 złote.



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FW: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[August Carideo/RYE/US]

Agreed 
If the problem Is the I/O config
It doesn't matter what op sys will eventually run on the box
You can code up a I/O gen on notepad put it on a USB stick
Upload it from the HMC use the SA version of the gen read in the source code 
and load out the IOCDS
And do a POR 
Just to get you started, you just need a minimum number of devices

The part that’s confusing me , I guess I missed something, but where does a 
working z/os image come in play here ?
Please let me know where I missed that
I thought he was just talking about a z/10 in a remote location running VM
I did not follow all of it either

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

W dniu 2014-05-08 21:00, August Carideo/RYE/US pisze:
> And where is this DVD going to load to if cpu / lpar whatever is not seeing 
> any devices ?
> To single line edit mode on HMC
> Can't even get to ICC if OSA /OSC is not reconized
Well, hard scenario.
Actually you can IPL from DVD, (*no! it's ftp from YOUR workstation!* DVD 
stinks!), but what is the reason of starting anything from DVD, when no device 
is available? You won't fix anything. What you need as a prerequisite is at 
least simple working IOCDS.


BTW: I admit I did not follow the discussion, but it seems high unlikely to 
lost IOCDS and working z/OS image. You can screw up the z/OS, you can destroy 
your IOCDS, but you cannot destroy both in one erroneous action!

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
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punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete 
permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl 
Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru 
Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2014 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości 
wpłacony) wynosi 168.696.052 złote.


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Re: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Mike Schwab]

The evaluation version was an ISO image designed to be burned to a
DVD, inserted into the HMC, and booted from.  Hopefully you would then
use the z/VM diagnostic tools to figure out what is wrong with the
storage system.  I.E. detect what volumes are present, etc.

If you can't figure out what is wrong, and you have been running at
another site for 3 weeks, then I would delete all the volumes, take it
back to initial configuration, power down for a little while,
reconfigure the device from scratch, and reload the data from your DR
site backups, exercise it for a while, then get the system up to date
and have it take over from production.

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Skip Robinson  wrote:
> We recently upgraded z/VM to 6.2. I downloaded the product from
> ShopzSeries. Burning a DVD turned into drawn-out PMR. See SHARE Anaheim
> proceedings for session 14648: Bit Bucket x'2E' beginning at slide 75.
> Upshot was that you have to use software that understands and creates ISO
> images. The DVD burner on my company-issued PC just created 1200+ files
> exactly as they existed on my C drive. HMC Load function could not
> recognize the DVD contents.
>
> Also note that you can only load a DVD from an actual HMC, remote or
> local.. I do most of my HMC work on a PC via web browser. Load does not
> work there.
>
> However, what you'll get is a running z/VM image in RAM. What will you do
> with that? If DASD volumes are fully accessible but 'merely
> corrupted'--highly unlikely--you could use this image to create a whole
> new z/VM environment on DASD. If the problem is in the hardware
> configuration itself, you're no closer to a real solution. OTOH we do all
> z/VM hardware configuration from an adjacent z/OS, so there may be native
> z/VM facilities that I'm not aware of.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 626-302-7535 Office
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
>
>
>
> From:   Mike Schwab 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
> Date:   05/08/2014 12:14 PM
> Subject:Re: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape
> Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
>
>
> It reads from the DVD into RAM.  No disk devices needed.
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:00 PM, August Carideo/RYE/US
>  wrote:
>> And where is this DVD going to load to if cpu / lpar whatever is not
> seeing any devices ?
>> To single line edit mode on HMC
>> Can't even get to ICC if OSA /OSC is not reconized
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Mike Schwab
>> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 2:43 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape
>>
>> http://www.vm.ibm.com/eval/ is the page to download the evaluation z/VM
> ?5.3?). Or ordering 5.2, 5.3, 6.1.  Get the file downloaded and burned on
> a DVD-R by the local staff and inserted into the DVD drive.
>>
>> http://www.cbttape.org/~jjaeger/zzsa.html Is the stand alone ZZSA files.
>  CD-R.
>>
>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Karl Severson
>  wrote:
If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
>>> damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from the
> starter system.
>>> If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing
> volumes.
>>> Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and
>>> reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If you
>>> have access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able
>>> to retain
existing user volumes.
>>>
>>> Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL from
> tape or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have this
> starter system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
>>>
Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL that
> CD and use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL
> required volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea as
> to what is >actually broken.
>>>
>>> I’ll pass this on to the customer
>>>
IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration
> issue. If the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not
> responsible. On the other hand, if the problem is hardware, then hardware
> support is responsible and if there is a software bug then software
> support is responsible. Everyone is responsible to point the figure at
> someone else so they don't have to deal with it. If you point the finger
> at support hard enough, they may resolve the issue for you.
>>>
>>> If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this
> system, then yes, they are responsible.
>>>
>>> It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not
> screaming.
>>>
Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the hardware
> console (temporarily).
>>>
>>> The system crashed as a result of a 

Re: Vendor Source Code

[Mark Post]

>>> On 5/8/2014 at 04:18 PM, Dno  wrote: 
> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the t's 
> and c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my previous 
> job we did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never understand why, 
> so I'm asking if anyone our there does this and for what reason. If the 
> company went out of business what would the source code do for us? Would we 
> give it to another third party to maintain for us? I appreciate the feedback.

Most companies do this for products that are supporting business critical 
functions.  If that's not going to be the case here, then there's no real need 
for escrowing the source.

If it is the case, then you would have ability to keep your business critical 
function running.  As we're all aware "stuff happens" at the worst time, say 
during a CPU upgrade.  You could either maintain the code yourself or paying 
someone else to do it.  If nothing else, it could buy you time to migrate off 
the product gracefully.

One of the benefits of working for an Open Source company is that we don't have 
to worry about contract terms like that and neither do our customers.  :)


Mark Post

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Dno]

Thanks Mark, makes sense.

Dean

Sent from my iPhone

On May 8, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Mark Post  wrote:

 On 5/8/2014 at 04:18 PM, Dno  wrote:
>> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the 
>> t's 
>> and c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my previous 
>> job we did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never understand why, 
>> so I'm asking if anyone our there does this and for what reason. If the 
>> company went out of business what would the source code do for us? Would we 
>> give it to another third party to maintain for us? I appreciate the feedback.
> 
> Most companies do this for products that are supporting business critical 
> functions.  If that's not going to be the case here, then there's no real 
> need for escrowing the source.
> 
> If it is the case, then you would have ability to keep your business critical 
> function running.  As we're all aware "stuff happens" at the worst time, say 
> during a CPU upgrade.  You could either maintain the code yourself or paying 
> someone else to do it.  If nothing else, it could buy you time to migrate off 
> the product gracefully.
> 
> One of the benefits of working for an Open Source company is that we don't 
> have to worry about contract terms like that and neither do our customers.  :)
> 
> 
> Mark Post
> 
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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Gibney, Dave]

There is  always Skype or some other means of telepresence :)

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of August Carideo/RYE/US
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 12:23 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape
> 
> Our auditors will not allow remote access to the HMC's But in his case if they
> expected him to support it remotely probably a different  story
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of John McKown
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 2:30 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape
> 
> Right. At our shop, we have a Microsoft "Terminal Services Gateway" server.
> At home, on one of my laptops, I can connect over the Internet to this "TSG
> Gateway". This then relays me to my local desktop (I know the OP doesn't
> have a local desktop, he could go to some other desktop). I am now
> interacting with that desktop, as if I were local. I bring up I.E. and connect
> (locally) to the HMC, which is on the LAN. At that point, I can IPL and do 
> other
> things on the HMC (such as use the SYSC and SYSG z/VM consoles. Well, if we
> had z/VM).
> 
> Given what the OP has said, I would _not_ be surprised if the IBM people who
> installed the z did not bother to connect the HMC to the LAN. I know that
> _we_ had a big fight putting the z9BC's HMC on the LAN. I'll not say more. I'm
> still very bitter towards those ex-employees.
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Matthew Stitt
> wrote:
> 
> > You do not need a remote HMC.  You just need to have the local HMC
> > available through the Internet with remote access allowed.  I do this
> > all the time.  Could save you some time if that could happen.
> >
> > On Thu, 8 May 2014 12:39:37 -0500, Karl Severson <
> > karl_j_sever...@raytheon.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>If the original volume was not IPL'able, then maybe the IPL data got
> > >damaged. You could try updating the IPL data on the RES volume from
> > >the
> > starter system.
> > >If in the worst case, you should still be able to re-use existing volumes.
> > >Hardware support told you the DS6800 is fine. Instead of purging and
> > >reconfigure, you should be able to retain the current volumes.  If
> > >you
> > have
> > >access to the existing user definitions, then you should be able  to
> > retain
> > >>existing user volumes.
> > >
> > >Okay – I think first I have to figure out why the system won’t IPL
> > >from
> > tape or disk. I guess they could try IPLing from a DVD if they have
> > this starter system. I don’t know if they do or not. I’ll ask.
> > >
> > >>Download a copy of ZZSA and burn it to a CD. Have Operations IPL
> > >>that CD
> > and use it to explore the volumes, specifically the Resvol and IPL
> > required volumes (IODF Volume etc). From there you should have an idea
> > as to what is
> > >actually broken.
> > >
> > >I’ll pass this on to the customer
> > >
> > >>IBM SUPPORT does not help in situations where it's a configuration
> > issue. If the error is the IOCDS was not updated, then they are not
> > responsible. On the other hand, if the problem is hardware, then
> > hardware support is responsible and if there is a software bug then
> > software support is responsible. Everyone is responsible to point the
> > figure at someone else so they don't have to deal with it. If you
> > point the finger at support hard enough, they may resolve the issue for you.
> > >
> > >If you actually mean IBM PROFESSIONAL SERVICES is maintaining this
> > system, then yes, they are responsible.
> > >
> > >It seems strange that they have been down for 3 weeks and not screaming.
> > >
> > >>Maybe you should have them consider allowing you access to the
> > >>hardware
> > console (temporarily).
> > >
> > >The system crashed as a result of a power outage. All was well before
> > that. We had an error code of ACTZ0182. That’s all I told IBM when I
> > made the service call. What I wanted was for someone from IBM to
> > determine if it was a hardware or software bug and go from there. At
> > this point, no one knows if it’s an IOCDS problem or any other for
> > that matter. Unfortunately I did not set this machine up and know very
> > little about it. I know the zVM and  Computer Associates parts
> > obviously but with matters of the HMC, IOCDS, etc., I know very little
> > as IBM came in and set all of that up. One guy, ONE guy came in and
> > set up the HMC, DS6800, installed zVM and because the compiler tapes
> > weren’t delivered yet, another person from the same department came
> > out and installed Fortran, PASCAL, etc. Now, these are the people, or
> > someone like them that ought to be able to determine what’s going on
> > with the system. I’m 1300 miles away and can’t be away from SoCal (I
> > work and live here after all) on an open ended trip until this gets
> > sorted out though I know this would be a gr

Re: FW: FW: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Ed Finnell]

The OP was the z/OS Lpar wouldn't activate after power outage with apparent 
 configuration issues. All the backups are DDF images. The support 
structure  recommends reloading the  DS6800. They've been down for weeks at 
this 
site  and is 1300 miles from mother ship.
 
 
In a message dated 5/8/2014 4:22:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
august.cari...@avon.com writes:

The part  that’s confusing me , I guess I missed something, but where does 
a working  z/os image come in play here ?
Please let me know where I missed that
I  thought he was just talking about a z/10 in a remote location running VM
I  did not follow all of it  either


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IBM: No, we did not help NSA spy on customers - CNET

[Ed Gould]

http://www.cnet.com/news/ibm-no-we-did-not-help-nsa-spy-on-customers/


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Re: No, we did not help NSA spy on customers - CNET

[Lester, Bob]

Hi Ed,

   Interesting article.  If true, I applaud IBM's response.

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Gould
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 3:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM: No, we did not help NSA spy on customers - CNET [ EXTERNAL ]

http://www.cnet.com/news/ibm-no-we-did-not-help-nsa-spy-on-customers/


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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Mitch]

Mark (et al):

Keep in mind, some ISV tools are proprietary and confidential code.  If it were 
not, competitors would gobble it up and duplicate the functionality, hence, the 
need to keep it secure.

Regards,

Mitch McCluhan,
Legacy Modernization Consultant
www.lcmg.us



-Original Message-
From: Dno 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Thu, May 8, 2014 2:26 pm
Subject: Re: Vendor Source Code


Thanks Mark, makes sense.
Dean
Sent from my iPhone
On May 8, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Mark Post  wrote:
 On 5/8/2014 at 04:18 PM, Dno  wrote:
> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the t's 
>> and c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my previous 
> job we did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never understand why, 
> so I'm asking if anyone our there does this and for what reason. If the 
> company went out of business what would the source code do for us? Would we 
> give it to another third party to maintain for us? I appreciate the feedback.
 
 Most companies do this for products that are supporting business critical 
unctions.  If that's not going to be the case here, then there's no real need 
or escrowing the source.
 
 If it is the case, then you would have ability to keep your business critical 
unction running.  As we're all aware "stuff happens" at the worst time, say 
uring a CPU upgrade.  You could either maintain the code yourself or paying 
omeone else to do it.  If nothing else, it could buy you time to migrate off 
he product gracefully.
 
 One of the benefits of working for an Open Source company is that we don't 
ave to worry about contract terms like that and neither do our customers.  :)
 
 
 Mark Post
 
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Another C compiler shift bug?

[Charles Mills]

Am I missing something here? Consider the following C statement:

unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1 << (arraySize-3);

When arraySize is 66, maxBit is ending up as zero (instead of what I would
expect, X'8000'. Am I missing something?

Here is the LIST output. (No optimization.)

*  unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1 << (arraySize-3);
  EX   r0,HOOK..STMT
  Lr1,arraySize(,r13,240)   
  AHI  r1,H'-3' 
  LA   r2,1 
  LR   r0,r2
  SLL  r0,0(r1) 
  LR   r1,r0
  SRA  r1,31
  ST   r1,maxBit(,r13,248)  
  ST   r0,maxBit(,r13,252)  

Won't SLL R0,0(R1) yield a zero for any shift values greater than 31?

Or am I confused?

Charles 

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Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

[retired mainframer]

:>: -Original Message-
:>: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
:>: Behalf Of Charles Mills
:>: Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 3:16 PM
:>: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:>: Subject: Another C compiler shift bug?
:>:
:>: Am I missing something here? Consider the following C statement:
:>:
:>: unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1 << (arraySize-3);
:>:
:>: When arraySize is 66, maxBit is ending up as zero (instead of what I
:>: would
:>: expect, X'8000'. Am I missing something?

0x1 is an unsigned int.  The shift is performed on this value (resulting in
0) which is then converted to unsigned long long.  Change the constant to
0x1ULL and try.

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Charles Mills]

The usual term for this is "source code escrow." A third party holds the
code with a contract that says that if the vendor goes out of business or
fails in some way then you get the source code. The third party charges, and
so the vendor may charge you.

There are two or three HUGE problems with source code escrow:

1. Thing about your own programs. You hire a guy or gal. You sit him or her
down with all of the documentation and relevant tools and help from your
experienced people. How long before he or she is productive? Three months?
Now, suppose this vendor product blows up and it turns out the vendor is out
of business. You are going to go to court, get the software from the escrow
agent, get the necessary platforms and tools -- and fix the bug, all quickly
enough to make a difference to your business?

2. Unless you have an elaborate verification process, what if you get the
source code and discover that through malice or oversight, the source code
is five versions back out of date and missing three critical include files?

3. A contract that says "we will do X in the future" -- in this case, give
you access to our source code -- is what is called an "executory contract."
Bankruptcy courts are very reluctant to enforce executory contracts because
the whole point of bankruptcy is tear up whatever came before and give the
debtor a fresh start.

Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Dno
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 1:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Vendor Source Code

Hi,

> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the
t's and c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my
previous job we did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never
understand why, so I'm asking if anyone our there does this and for what
reason. If the company went out of business what would the source code do
for us? Would we give it to another third party to maintain for us? I
appreciate the feedback.

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Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 8 May 2014 15:16:26 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Am I missing something here? Consider the following C statement:
>
>unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1 << (arraySize-3);
>
>When arraySize is 66, maxBit is ending up as zero (instead of what I would
>expect, X'8000'. Am I missing something?
>
>Here is the LIST output. (No optimization.)
>
>*  unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1 << (arraySize-3);
>  EX   r0,HOOK..STMT
>  Lr1,arraySize(,r13,240)
>  AHI  r1,H'-3'
>  LA   r2,1
>  LR   r0,r2
>  SLL  r0,0(r1)
>  LR   r1,r0
>  SRA  r1,31
>  ST   r1,maxBit(,r13,248)
>  ST   r0,maxBit(,r13,252)
>
>Won't SLL R0,0(R1) yield a zero for any shift values greater than 31?
>
Does it work better with a cast:

unsigned long long maxBit = (long long) 0x1 << (arraySize-3);?

I might then expect:

  SLDL  r0,0(r1)

-- gil

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Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

[Charles Mills]

Hmmm. Well, I beat the compiler into submission but I kind of wonder if this
is correct. Perhaps. It was apparently doing 32-bit arithmetic before
because 0x1 is implicitly a 32-bit value. I changed it to 0x1ull (and
unsigned 64-bit '1') and it works.

I changed the statement to 

unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1ull << (arraySize-3);

Now it compiles in a way that is likely to work:

*  unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1ull << (arraySize-3);
  EX   r0,HOOK..STMT   
  Lr1,arraySize(,r13,240)  
  AHI  r1,H'-3'
  LA   r2,0
  LA   r3,1
  SLDL r2,0(r1)
  LR   r0,r3   
  LR   r1,r2   
  ST   r1,maxBit(,r13,248) 
  ST   r0,maxBit(,r13,252) 

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 3:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Another C compiler shift bug?

Am I missing something here? Consider the following C statement:

unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1 << (arraySize-3);

When arraySize is 66, maxBit is ending up as zero (instead of what I would
expect, X'8000'. Am I missing something?

Here is the LIST output. (No optimization.)

*  unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1 << (arraySize-3);
  EX   r0,HOOK..STMT
  Lr1,arraySize(,r13,240)   
  AHI  r1,H'-3' 
  LA   r2,1 
  LR   r0,r2
  SLL  r0,0(r1) 
  LR   r1,r0
  SRA  r1,31
  ST   r1,maxBit(,r13,248)  
  ST   r0,maxBit(,r13,252)  

Won't SLL R0,0(R1) yield a zero for any shift values greater than 31?

Or am I confused?

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Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

[Charles Mills]

Yer right.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of retired mainframer
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 3:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

:>: -Original Message-
:>: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
:>: Behalf Of Charles Mills
:>: Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 3:16 PM
:>: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:>: Subject: Another C compiler shift bug?
:>:
:>: Am I missing something here? Consider the following C statement:
:>:
:>: unsigned long long maxBit = 0x1 << (arraySize-3);
:>:
:>: When arraySize is 66, maxBit is ending up as zero (instead of what I
:>: would
:>: expect, X'8000'. Am I missing something?

0x1 is an unsigned int.  The shift is performed on this value (resulting in
0) which is then converted to unsigned long long.  Change the constant to
0x1ULL and try.

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Thomas Kern]

At one time, I broke open the UTILITY EXEC and used copies of the 
commands inside it to build my own version of the utiltape. Mine started 
with ICKDSF, then DDR, then the standalone FDR program. With that tape I 
could initialize a volume, restore a volume (VM or MVS) and back up a 
volume before going home. I used it several times at our Disaster 
Recovery site.


/Tom Kern

On 05/07/2014 15:59, Karl Severson wrote:

You mentioned DDR in your OP. Is this a z/VM system?

Yes, zVM 6.1
  

AFAIK, a z10 can be IPL'ed from tape, ...z/OS *cannot*.
  

There are stand alone versions of ICKDSF (to init DASD) and DF/DSS to restore 
data. The load parms are different and the activation profile will need to be 
changed to ipl the stand alone's.

Check the fine manuals (ICKDSF and df/DSS Storage Admin.) for details.

The UTILITY UTILTAPE command creates a IPLable tape that will start a DDR 
session. From there a system can be restored using DDR RESTORE. For my purpose 
I only wanted to see if the system would IPL from the tape. If the system IPLs 
from tape but not from disk, then I know where to start looking (or directing 
IBM to look).

Karl

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Scott Ford]

huh, does IBM permit you to buy source or CA ?





Yeah I have strong feelings about this …seen the after effects and it aint 
pretty





From: Mark Post
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎May‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎4‎:‎58‎ ‎PM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List





>>> On 5/8/2014 at 04:18 PM, Dno  wrote: 
> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the t's 
> and c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my previous 
> job we did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never understand why, 
> so I'm asking if anyone our there does this and for what reason. If the 
> company went out of business what would the source code do for us? Would we 
> give it to another third party to maintain for us? I appreciate the feedback.

Most companies do this for products that are supporting business critical 
functions.  If that's not going to be the case here, then there's no real need 
for escrowing the source.

If it is the case, then you would have ability to keep your business critical 
function running.  As we're all aware "stuff happens" at the worst time, say 
during a CPU upgrade.  You could either maintain the code yourself or paying 
someone else to do it.  If nothing else, it could buy you time to migrate off 
the product gracefully.

One of the benefits of working for an Open Source company is that we don't have 
to worry about contract terms like that and neither do our customers.  :)


Mark Post

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Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 8 May 2014 15:35:39 -0700, Charles Mills  wrote:

>Hmmm. Well, I beat the compiler into submission ...
>
"beat"?  Actually I believe you lulled it into submission.

>...
>  SLDL r2,0(r1)
>  LR   r0,r3
>  LR   r1,r2
>  ST   r1,maxBit(,r13,248)
>  ST   r0,maxBit(,r13,252)
>
Would there be anything wrong with:

  STM  r2,r3,maxBit+248(r13)

???

I never knew that ST accepted a 3-modifier expression!?

-- gil

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Ed Jaffe]

On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Matthew Stitt wrote:

You do not need a remote HMC.  You just need to have the local HMC available 
through the Internet with remote access allowed.  I do this all the time.  
Could save you some time if that could happen.


How do you reach through the Internet and insert the DVD?

--
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Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Thomas Kern]

You just have to keep IPLing to skip past the Tape Label and tape marks. 
Not nice but do-able at DR. Fix it when you get back home.


/Tom Kern

On 05/08/2014 13:54, Alan Altmark wrote:

On Wed, 7 May 2014 20:05:58 -0400, Ed Finnell  wrote:

Think the key is get a working VM system by whatever means available. From
there validate IO config.

The only z/VM things you can IPL from tape are a z/VM installation tape, IOCP, 
ICKDSF, DDR, and standalone dump.   Tape volumes created by DDR are not IPLable 
unless you go through a specific process to place DDR on the front of the tape. 
  You can also IPL the z/VM installation DVD and use the starter system.

If the IPLable utility tape was created on a labeled tape, then it isn't going 
to work and you have no choice but to IPL the installation media.  (A power 
outage isn't going to affect a tape that's not in a drive.)

The thing about recovery procedures is that you need to test them before you 
need them!

Alan Altmark
IBM Lab Services
z/VM Consultant

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Dno]

Thank you Charles, this is very useful information. We discussed a couple of 
the scenarios you describe, opting not to bother with this.

Dean

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2014, at 6:31 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:
> 
> The usual term for this is "source code escrow." A third party holds the
> code with a contract that says that if the vendor goes out of business or
> fails in some way then you get the source code. The third party charges, and
> so the vendor may charge you.
> 
> There are two or three HUGE problems with source code escrow:
> 
> 1. Thing about your own programs. You hire a guy or gal. You sit him or her
> down with all of the documentation and relevant tools and help from your
> experienced people. How long before he or she is productive? Three months?
> Now, suppose this vendor product blows up and it turns out the vendor is out
> of business. You are going to go to court, get the software from the escrow
> agent, get the necessary platforms and tools -- and fix the bug, all quickly
> enough to make a difference to your business?
> 
> 2. Unless you have an elaborate verification process, what if you get the
> source code and discover that through malice or oversight, the source code
> is five versions back out of date and missing three critical include files?
> 
> 3. A contract that says "we will do X in the future" -- in this case, give
> you access to our source code -- is what is called an "executory contract."
> Bankruptcy courts are very reluctant to enforce executory contracts because
> the whole point of bankruptcy is tear up whatever came before and give the
> debtor a fresh start.
> 
> Charles
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Dno
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 1:18 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Vendor Source Code
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the
> t's and c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my
> previous job we did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never
> understand why, so I'm asking if anyone our there does this and for what
> reason. If the company went out of business what would the source code do
> for us? Would we give it to another third party to maintain for us? I
> appreciate the feedback.
> 
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

[Charles Mills]

Well, I don't think they claim that the LIST output is valid assembler -- it's 
kind of a clue, easier than reading the hex op codes.

Or how about grande instructions?

This is unoptimized. I assume they do better with OPT(2).

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 4:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

On Thu, 8 May 2014 15:35:39 -0700, Charles Mills  wrote:

>Hmmm. Well, I beat the compiler into submission ...
>
"beat"?  Actually I believe you lulled it into submission.

>...
>  SLDL r2,0(r1)
>  LR   r0,r3
>  LR   r1,r2
>  ST   r1,maxBit(,r13,248)
>  ST   r0,maxBit(,r13,252)
>
Would there be anything wrong with:

  STM  r2,r3,maxBit+248(r13)

???

I never knew that ST accepted a 3-modifier expression!?

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Re: Another C compiler shift bug?

[Farley, Peter x23353]

ST doesn't accept a 3-modifier expression, that is an artifact of the XL C/C++ 
"assembler" listing format.

HTH

Peter

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 7:01 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Another C compiler shift bug?
> 
> On Thu, 8 May 2014 15:35:39 -0700, Charles Mills  wrote:
> 
> >Hmmm. Well, I beat the compiler into submission ...
> >
> "beat"?  Actually I believe you lulled it into submission.
> 
> >...
> >  SLDL r2,0(r1)
> >  LR   r0,r3
> >  LR   r1,r2
> >  ST   r1,maxBit(,r13,248)
> >  ST   r0,maxBit(,r13,252)
> >
> Would there be anything wrong with:
> 
>   STM  r2,r3,maxBit+248(r13)
> 
> ???
> 
> I never knew that ST accepted a 3-modifier expression!?
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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Mark Post]

>>> On 5/8/2014 at 06:08 PM, Mitch  wrote: 

> Keep in mind, some ISV tools are proprietary and confidential code.  If it 
> were not, competitors would gobble it up and duplicate the functionality, 
> hence, the need to keep it secure.

What makes you think I, or anyone else, didn't already understand that?


Mark Post

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Re: IBM: No, we did not help NSA spy on customers - CNET

[Shane Ginnane]

Almost everyone I know pronounces PR/SM as PRISM.

Shane ...

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Mitch]

Mark,

I am very confident you did already understand that.  What I was trying to 
emphasize was the open source is apples and oranges.  I meant no disrespect.

Mitch



-Original Message-
From: Mark Post 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Thu, May 8, 2014 4:41 pm
Subject: Re: Vendor Source Code


>>> On 5/8/2014 at 06:08 PM, Mitch  wrote: 
> Keep in mind, some ISV tools are proprietary and confidential code.  If it 
 were not, competitors would gobble it up and duplicate the functionality, 
 hence, the need to keep it secure.
What makes you think I, or anyone else, didn't already understand that?

ark Post
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Re: z10 IPL from Utility Tape

[Ed Gould]

virtually:)


On May 8, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote:


On 5/8/2014 10:49 AM, Matthew Stitt wrote:
You do not need a remote HMC.  You just need to have the local HMC  
available through the Internet with remote access allowed.  I do  
this all the time.  Could save you some time if that could happen.


How do you reach through the Internet and insert the DVD?

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a bad thing

[Shane Ginnane]

On Thu, 8 May 2014 13:10:31 +, Kees wrote:

> z/OS will always do what you tell it to do b.m.o. your goal definitions.  
> This is quite different from other platforms, that already start doing 
> problematic above 30%.

About a decade ago an attempt was made (by IBM folks from India I believe) to 
add goal based resource management to the Linux kernel. I was on the 
development mail-list till it got subsumed by (older) stronger self-interest 
groups.
Some of that works has been shoe-horned into cgroups but the concept of 
containers as an over-arching framework comes from an entirely different 
mindset.

Shane ...

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Mitch]

Charles,

My first question is this:   how does your scenario differ from hiring a new 
programmer and telling him he has to support an application that has been 
around for years, but none of the previous developers or support staff are with 
the company any longer?  However, your point about what happens if and when you 
do have to get access to the code from a no longer existent vendor.  This is 
true, but also I would be surprised if any company would put something into a 
production environment without first testing it, whether it is if the vendor 
product "blows up" or something changes in the client's environment.

I represented a vendor (who shall remain unnamed) and a situation happened 
where they had their product code in escrow, they were taken to court by a 
competitor, and the competitor won the case.  The vendor then had to make their 
current version of their product available as per contract.  A end user 
organization should ensure that any escrowed source is always the latest 
version as per contract stipulations.

Lastly, bankruptcy is typically financially oriented.  Contract language for 
"real" property is handled differently than financial obligations.  Again, I, 
unfortunately, learned this first hand.  BTW, IMHO, any vendor that is worth 
their salt will keep their  various versions held in escrow up to date.

Respectfully,

Mitch McCluhan



-Original Message-
From: Charles Mills 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Thu, May 8, 2014 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: Vendor Source Code


The usual term for this is "source code escrow." A third party holds the
ode with a contract that says that if the vendor goes out of business or
ails in some way then you get the source code. The third party charges, and
o the vendor may charge you.
There are two or three HUGE problems with source code escrow:
1. Thing about your own programs. You hire a guy or gal. You sit him or her
own with all of the documentation and relevant tools and help from your
xperienced people. How long before he or she is productive? Three months?
ow, suppose this vendor product blows up and it turns out the vendor is out
f business. You are going to go to court, get the software from the escrow
gent, get the necessary platforms and tools -- and fix the bug, all quickly
nough to make a difference to your business?
2. Unless you have an elaborate verification process, what if you get the
ource code and discover that through malice or oversight, the source code
s five versions back out of date and missing three critical include files?
3. A contract that says "we will do X in the future" -- in this case, give
ou access to our source code -- is what is called an "executory contract."
ankruptcy courts are very reluctant to enforce executory contracts because
he whole point of bankruptcy is tear up whatever came before and give the
ebtor a fresh start.
Charles
Original Message-
rom: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
ehalf Of Dno
ent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 1:18 PM
o: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
ubject: Vendor Source Code
Hi,
> We're looking to purchase a sw product and our lawyers are looking at the
's and c's to see if we can have the right to their source code. At my
revious job we did this for BMC, we kept it at IMAR. I guess I never
nderstand why, so I'm asking if anyone our there does this and for what
eason. If the company went out of business what would the source code do
or us? Would we give it to another third party to maintain for us? I
ppreciate the feedback.
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Re: Mainframe (in general) running at 100% not always a bad thing

[Shane Ginnane]

On Thu, 8 May 2014 14:12:26 +0100, Martin Packer wrote:

>Interesting: I suspect that nowadays the words "only testing" or "only
>development" will play differently. It's my contention that increasingly
>getting function out the door is part of a company's attempt to compete.
>
>I wonder how many companies will be able to defer Development / Test going
>forwards.

Indeed.
Especially when a replacement for the entire business model is in development. 
Everybody thinks they are the most important workload - and want goals set to 
match.

BTDTGTS.

Shane ...

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Mark Post]

>>> On 5/8/2014 at 06:50 PM, Scott Ford  wrote: 
> huh, does IBM permit you to buy source or CA ?

Source code escrow is not at all the same as buying the source code from a 
vendor.  I would be willing to bet that at least some of IBM's and CA's larger 
customers have some source code in escrow.  Think governments and the like.  
"We won't license this product or any of your other products unless you agree 
to put the source code for this particular package in escrow."


Mark Post

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[zMan]

What Charles said. In spades. I knew a vendor who had a product that they
kept writing binary patches for, because while they had the source code,
they'd lost the build process (knowledge departed with a developer). And
before anyone blames the vendor, it was a minor product and the loss
occurred before they bought the product line from another company.

Rumor had it that Paint was rewritten for Windows 95 because Microsoft lost
the source. While there's no real evidence of that as far as I can tell,
anyone who's worked for a vendor believes it's at least possible.

Still, any real vendor does do escrow, and it's not something I'd forego.
At the very least, it shows some level of alleged rigor. And if the company
goes bust, you might be able to hire their developers. It's insurance:
after all, your insurance company could go bust, too, eh?


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Mark Post  wrote:

> >>> On 5/8/2014 at 06:50 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:
> > huh, does IBM permit you to buy source or CA ?
>
> Source code escrow is not at all the same as buying the source code from a
> vendor.  I would be willing to bet that at least some of IBM's and CA's
> larger customers have some source code in escrow.  Think governments and
> the like.  "We won't license this product or any of your other products
> unless you agree to put the source code for this particular package in
> escrow."
>
>
> Mark Post
>
> --
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Re: Vendor Source Code

[zMan]

Also +1 what Mark said. I've known of only a few cases (not that I claim
encyclopedic knowledge, but I mean "across a dozen or so vendors and thus a
few thousand mainframe customers") where vendors were forced to give up
source code to specific customers. In most cases, the only thing vendors
are willing to offer is escrow.


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:36 PM, zMan  wrote:

> What Charles said. In spades. I knew a vendor who had a product that they
> kept writing binary patches for, because while they had the source code,
> they'd lost the build process (knowledge departed with a developer). And
> before anyone blames the vendor, it was a minor product and the loss
> occurred before they bought the product line from another company.
>
> Rumor had it that Paint was rewritten for Windows 95 because Microsoft
> lost the source. While there's no real evidence of that as far as I can
> tell, anyone who's worked for a vendor believes it's at least possible.
>
> Still, any real vendor does do escrow, and it's not something I'd forego.
> At the very least, it shows some level of alleged rigor. And if the company
> goes bust, you might be able to hire their developers. It's insurance:
> after all, your insurance company could go bust, too, eh?
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Mark Post  wrote:
>
>> >>> On 5/8/2014 at 06:50 PM, Scott Ford  wrote:
>> > huh, does IBM permit you to buy source or CA ?
>>
>> Source code escrow is not at all the same as buying the source code from
>> a vendor.  I would be willing to bet that at least some of IBM's and CA's
>> larger customers have some source code in escrow.  Think governments and
>> the like.  "We won't license this product or any of your other products
>> unless you agree to put the source code for this particular package in
>> escrow."
>>
>>
>> Mark Post
>>
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
>
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>



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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Charles Mills]

> how does your scenario differ from hiring a new programmer and telling him
he has to support an application that has been around for years

Obviously we could invent hypothetical scenarios which were the same or
different. I think it is at least plausible that in your scenario there
would be some documentation and appropriate tools such as compilers, and
perhaps in-house skills. ("Your" scenario application is written in COBOL
and the shop has COBOL programmers; the escrowed application is written in
FORTRAN and there are no FORTRAN skills in-house.) But Yes, best case, your
scenario is similar to identical. But of course there is no preceding
drawn-out court fight and hopefully no crisis (unlike "it blew up and we
finally figured out the vendor is out of business").

> they were taken to court by a competitor, and the competitor won the case

Interesting. The competitor must have been a licensee, with an escrow
agreement, and the vendor must have breached the support agreement. Unusual
to say the least.

> bankruptcy is typically financially oriented.  Contract language for
"real" property ...

Bankruptcy is bankruptcy. Software is intellectual property. Bankruptcy
basically trumps contracts. If I were a creditor of a bankrupt software
company I would be in court arguing that the source code should be sold to
the highest bidder to help satisfy the software company's debts to me and
others, not given away due to an executory agreement. What would the court
say? We would be paying lawyers to find out, wouldn't we? (Meanwhile, the
poor customer's critical processing is still waiting on a bug fix.)

Escrow may work in certain circumstances. I think it is problematic to the
point of having little benefit. Your mileage may vary.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mitch
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 5:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vendor Source Code

Charles,

My first question is this:   how does your scenario differ from hiring a new
programmer and telling him he has to support an application that has been
around for years, but none of the previous developers or support staff are
with the company any longer?  However, your point about what happens if and
when you do have to get access to the code from a no longer existent vendor.
This is true, but also I would be surprised if any company would put
something into a production environment without first testing it, whether it
is if the vendor product "blows up" or something changes in the client's
environment.

I represented a vendor (who shall remain unnamed) and a situation happened
where they had their product code in escrow, they were taken to court by a
competitor, and the competitor won the case.  The vendor then had to make
their current version of their product available as per contract.  A end
user organization should ensure that any escrowed source is always the
latest version as per contract stipulations.

Lastly, bankruptcy is typically financially oriented.  Contract language for
"real" property is handled differently than financial obligations.  Again,
I, unfortunately, learned this first hand.  BTW, IMHO, any vendor that is
worth their salt will keep their  various versions held in escrow up to
date.

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Re: System z StackExchange proposal

[zMan]

Good answer. I'm not in love with IBM-MAIN by any means; I have seen
communities fragment and die due to things like this. But it's worth a try
as long as folks (on both sides!) are ready to abandon either "side" if
that's the way the tea leaves read down the road.


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Christopher Hodgins <
chris.hodg...@uk.ibm.com> wrote:

> Hi zMan,
>
> I've been answering similar points in the CICS-L mailing list, so I'll
> link you to the full discussion in the archives below. To briefly
> summarise though, the mailing lists are awesome and this isn't an attempt
> to fragment the community. It's an attempt to reach out to potentially new
> or existing audiences who wish to interact in different ways. The
> StackExchange model does have certain advantages over mailing lists for
> Q&A interactions. Whereas mailing lists are brilliant for IBM-MAIN styles
> of interaction where discussions are long and winding and branch off into
> several different discussions along the way.
>
> The discussion on CICS-L from the archive:
>
> http://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A3=ind1405&L=cics-l&P=240757&E=2&B=--=_alternative+0036D96380257CD2_=&T=text/html
>
> We've had a great response from everyone so far but we still need a little
> more help in voting up and adding new questions to the proposed community.
> If you can help the community link is below.
>
> Community proposal:
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/67330/system-z
>
> Thanks
> Chris
>
>
> 
> Chris Hodgins
> IBM Software Engineer - CICS Transaction Server for z/OS
> The CICS blog:
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/ChrisHodgins
>
>
>
> From:   zMan 
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu,
> Date:   08/05/2014 14:22
> Subject:Re: System z StackExchange proposal
> Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
>
>
> I'm not *opposed* to the idea, but you might want to suggest why this is
> somehow better than IBM-MAIN (plus archives). One view says "This would
> fragment the community", which would NOT be a good thing.
>
>
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Christopher Hodgins <
> chris.hodg...@uk.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > A few of my IBM colleagues and myself are attempting to create a new
> > community for System z on StackExchange, covering everything System z
> > related. If you haven't seen StackExchange before, it is an excellent
> and
> > easy to find place to ask questions, share answers or even just vote on
> > questions you would like to see answered. This isn't an attempt to
> replace
> > or displace existing communities but to encourage even more knowledge on
> > System z to be shared and discussed.
> >
> > To request a new community you first create a proposal community and
> > encourage StackExchange users to submit and/or up-vote questions. This
> is
> > to prove that the community would be viable, sustainable and useful. If
> > you would like to help us support this new community, we would very much
> > appreciate it if you could create a StackExchange account, up-vote the
> > existing questions and propose some new questions.
> >
> > Community proposal:
> > http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/67330/system-z
> >
> > Many thanks
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > Chris Hodgins
> > IBM Software Engineer - CICS Transaction Server for z/OS
> > The CICS blog:
> > https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/ChrisHodgins
> > Unless stated otherwise above:
> > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
> > 741598.
> > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
> 3AU
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
>
>
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>
> --
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>
>
>
> Unless stated otherwise above:
> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
> 741598.
> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
>
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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Charles Mills]

Good points.

Many moons ago I wrote, as a contractor, a product for an application software 
company and they ended up losing the source code for the product (which they 
were selling as part of a very large application system). They were unable to 
fix it for Y2K and had to replace the whole product in their large application 
system. Why didn't I have source code? Well, I used their mainframe to develop 
it and that's where the source code lived. I was young and foolish. I had some 
ancient source code but it was many, many versions back.

In my software company I had a "hire" agreement with a customer. It said that 
if we went out of business, we agreed to notify them and give them the 
opportunity to hire John Doe, one of our programmers. I thought it was 
basically meaningless, but it was something of a win-win: cost us nothing, made 
them happy, and guaranteed John a job after we went bust (which we did not).

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of zMan
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 5:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vendor Source Code

What Charles said. In spades. I knew a vendor who had a product that they kept 
writing binary patches for, because while they had the source code, they'd lost 
the build process (knowledge departed with a developer). And before anyone 
blames the vendor, it was a minor product and the loss occurred before they 
bought the product line from another company.

Rumor had it that Paint was rewritten for Windows 95 because Microsoft lost the 
source. While there's no real evidence of that as far as I can tell, anyone 
who's worked for a vendor believes it's at least possible.

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Re: Vendor Source Code

[zMan]

Another anecdote: the vendor I worked for in 1988 bought a product line
from another vendor (who is gone, but was colloquially known as "gruel and
garbage"). It turned out that the binaries they were shipping and the
source code they sent us didn't match--not even close (major missing
function: one of the components wouldn't even come up once it was
reassembled!). One of our guys spent 18 months working to reconcile them;
at that point, we found another sucker^wcompany to unload the product on.
Never heard from it (or them) again.

I don't think the vendor we bought it from did this on purpose: I think
either they'd lost the ability to build, or had done so many binary patches
without matching source patches that things had drifted.


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 8:44 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:

> > how does your scenario differ from hiring a new programmer and telling
> him
> he has to support an application that has been around for years
>
> Obviously we could invent hypothetical scenarios which were the same or
> different. I think it is at least plausible that in your scenario there
> would be some documentation and appropriate tools such as compilers, and
> perhaps in-house skills. ("Your" scenario application is written in COBOL
> and the shop has COBOL programmers; the escrowed application is written in
> FORTRAN and there are no FORTRAN skills in-house.) But Yes, best case, your
> scenario is similar to identical. But of course there is no preceding
> drawn-out court fight and hopefully no crisis (unlike "it blew up and we
> finally figured out the vendor is out of business").
>
> > they were taken to court by a competitor, and the competitor won the case
>
> Interesting. The competitor must have been a licensee, with an escrow
> agreement, and the vendor must have breached the support agreement. Unusual
> to say the least.
>
> > bankruptcy is typically financially oriented.  Contract language for
> "real" property ...
>
> Bankruptcy is bankruptcy. Software is intellectual property. Bankruptcy
> basically trumps contracts. If I were a creditor of a bankrupt software
> company I would be in court arguing that the source code should be sold to
> the highest bidder to help satisfy the software company's debts to me and
> others, not given away due to an executory agreement. What would the court
> say? We would be paying lawyers to find out, wouldn't we? (Meanwhile, the
> poor customer's critical processing is still waiting on a bug fix.)
>
> Escrow may work in certain circumstances. I think it is problematic to the
> point of having little benefit. Your mileage may vary.
>
> Charles
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Mitch
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 5:12 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Vendor Source Code
>
> Charles,
>
> My first question is this:   how does your scenario differ from hiring a
> new
> programmer and telling him he has to support an application that has been
> around for years, but none of the previous developers or support staff are
> with the company any longer?  However, your point about what happens if and
> when you do have to get access to the code from a no longer existent
> vendor.
> This is true, but also I would be surprised if any company would put
> something into a production environment without first testing it, whether
> it
> is if the vendor product "blows up" or something changes in the client's
> environment.
>
> I represented a vendor (who shall remain unnamed) and a situation happened
> where they had their product code in escrow, they were taken to court by a
> competitor, and the competitor won the case.  The vendor then had to make
> their current version of their product available as per contract.  A end
> user organization should ensure that any escrowed source is always the
> latest version as per contract stipulations.
>
> Lastly, bankruptcy is typically financially oriented.  Contract language
> for
> "real" property is handled differently than financial obligations.  Again,
> I, unfortunately, learned this first hand.  BTW, IMHO, any vendor that is
> worth their salt will keep their  various versions held in escrow up to
> date.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



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Re: Vendor Source Code

[Scott Ford]

Amen, brother Charles, even as a ISV I totally agree. Besides, I think we 
should gave a API to Plug into, hence no need for code.  Btw most auditors 
don't have a clue why the want source besides they want it ...

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD




On May 8, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:

>> how does your scenario differ from hiring a new programmer and telling him
> he has to support an application that has been around for years
> 
> Obviously we could invent hypothetical scenarios which were the same or
> different. I think it is at least plausible that in your scenario there
> would be some documentation and appropriate tools such as compilers, and
> perhaps in-house skills. ("Your" scenario application is written in COBOL
> and the shop has COBOL programmers; the escrowed application is written in
> FORTRAN and there are no FORTRAN skills in-house.) But Yes, best case, your
> scenario is similar to identical. But of course there is no preceding
> drawn-out court fight and hopefully no crisis (unlike "it blew up and we
> finally figured out the vendor is out of business").
> 
>> they were taken to court by a competitor, and the competitor won the case
> 
> Interesting. The competitor must have been a licensee, with an escrow
> agreement, and the vendor must have breached the support agreement. Unusual
> to say the least.
> 
>> bankruptcy is typically financially oriented.  Contract language for
> "real" property ...
> 
> Bankruptcy is bankruptcy. Software is intellectual property. Bankruptcy
> basically trumps contracts. If I were a creditor of a bankrupt software
> company I would be in court arguing that the source code should be sold to
> the highest bidder to help satisfy the software company's debts to me and
> others, not given away due to an executory agreement. What would the court
> say? We would be paying lawyers to find out, wouldn't we? (Meanwhile, the
> poor customer's critical processing is still waiting on a bug fix.)
> 
> Escrow may work in certain circumstances. I think it is problematic to the
> point of having little benefit. Your mileage may vary.
> 
> Charles
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Mitch
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 5:12 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Vendor Source Code
> 
> Charles,
> 
> My first question is this:   how does your scenario differ from hiring a new
> programmer and telling him he has to support an application that has been
> around for years, but none of the previous developers or support staff are
> with the company any longer?  However, your point about what happens if and
> when you do have to get access to the code from a no longer existent vendor.
> This is true, but also I would be surprised if any company would put
> something into a production environment without first testing it, whether it
> is if the vendor product "blows up" or something changes in the client's
> environment.
> 
> I represented a vendor (who shall remain unnamed) and a situation happened
> where they had their product code in escrow, they were taken to court by a
> competitor, and the competitor won the case.  The vendor then had to make
> their current version of their product available as per contract.  A end
> user organization should ensure that any escrowed source is always the
> latest version as per contract stipulations.
> 
> Lastly, bankruptcy is typically financially oriented.  Contract language for
> "real" property is handled differently than financial obligations.  Again,
> I, unfortunately, learned this first hand.  BTW, IMHO, any vendor that is
> worth their salt will keep their  various versions held in escrow up to
> date.
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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