Re: VSAM file as GDS

[R.S.]

W dniu 2017-06-22 o 22:19, Wayne Bickerdike pisze:

Archaic but still documented

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/d4111b.htm

z/OS DFSMS Using Data Sets
SC23-6855-00

I made no assumptions about the original postIs there evidence of SMS?


Yes, there is.
It's a date. XXI century. SMS is like electricity.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Bill Wilkie]

As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic updates. 
Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my laptop at least 10 
times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to recover. Be careful what 
you wish for.


Bill



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Edward Gould 
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 3:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor 
billing by 15 percent (our else)

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Clark Morris  wrote:
>> __SNIP--
>
> If the goal was to eliminate the need for highly technical people who
> understand the platform and the tradeoffs, that is a futile goal for
> any operating system.  If the goal is to eliminate the need for
> assembler coded exits, this is more doable but customization will
> always be with us.  While there can be plenty of obscurity in
> assembler, how well documented are the SYS1.PARMLIB members and JES
> initialization decks that control how the systems operate?  These are
> just weird programming interfaces that can be every bit as cryptic.
>
> As someone who did his last systems programming in the 1990s, I would
> hope that systems maintenance and upgrade has become a lot easier (and
> if IBM made the Knowledge Center and Shopz 24/365.24 available) and
> that less custom code is required because of all the new concerns that
> I didn't have to deal with.  The environment has become more complex
> for all of the operating systems so anything that can be eliminated is
> to the good.  There is enough to do so that automation of some of the
> grunt work is a good thing.
>
> Clark Morris

Clark,

The instructor just said systems programmers. I will agree with you on the 
exits and assembler though.
Having said that I just cannot see a non assembler person going through system 
dumps. The needed CB structure and to decode machine language and understand 
what each instruction is attempting to do is just impossible (to me)to expect 
of an average COBOL programmer. Also having said that as long as IBM is as 
cryptic  as some of their messages can be *AND* trying to understand in context 
what the return code is sort of indicating would be daunting to and programmer 
type, IMO. AT least they got rid of “call your local system programmer” 
explanations in the M&C.
As long as I semi brought up SERVPAC, IBM needlessly (IMO) complicated the 
install process. In my opinion CBIPO and CBPDO were pretty much as good as it 
is going to get. IBM should have kept the level of the base better up to date, 
was the only issue I had. It would have cut down on the Apply’s.
Yes there are pluses for sevrpac but you stilll need to know a bit about SMPE. 
Given that SMPE is the standard for installation of maintenance I really don’t 
see SERVPAC being all that helpful. I know when I tried a couple of SERVPACs 
they were ugly and could be screwed up easily. The German support was less than 
typical IBM support.
I got the feeling that (at least according to IBM) that customers complained 
about the cost of system programmers.
Ed
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Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

[Pew, Curtis G]

On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:15 PM, Frank Swarbrick  
wrote:
> 
> The MD5 is used to verify that the file sent from the mainframe has the same 
> data when received on the interim distributed system.  So creating the MD5 
> after its already there does no good.

I will just add 2 points:

1. If you compute the MD5 hash while the file is still EBCDIC, you will get a 
completely different value than the hash of the ASCII version. Hash algorithms 
work on the binary representation, not the logical meaning.

2. If you’re trying to ensure the data hasn’t been intentionally modified, MD5 
is nearly useless. If you need a hash for detecting malicious corruption, I’d 
use at least SHA2.

-- 
Pew, Curtis G
curtis@austin.utexas.edu
ITS Systems/Core/Administrative Services


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Re: BMC acquiring CA?

[Mark Pace]

"Wink, Wink, Nod, Nod, Say not more!"

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:09 PM, Steve Smith  wrote:

> Let's say company B has a history of being managed by smart technically
> savvy people who developed their own software.  Let's also say company C
> has a history of being a cash mill that just buys other companies, strips
> the technical staff to the bone marrow, and milks the maintenance and
> licensing revenue.  Perhaps B sees opportunities to consolidate some of the
> many duplicate and redundant products of C (and with B's own), and use
> their technical expertise to greatly expand their market with a relatively
> modest increase in costs.
>
> Just some hypothetical musings... any resemblance to any actual company is
> purely coincidental.
>
> sas
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:35 PM, Peter  wrote:
>
> > Both the ISV do have some similar products. In what way it is going to be
> > an win-win situation
> >
> > On Jun 23, 2017 4:03 AM, "Clark Morris" 
> wrote:
> >
> > > [Default] On 22 Jun 2017 09:05:37 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> > > pinnc...@rochester.rr.com (Tom Conley) wrote:
> > >
> > > >On 6/22/2017 11:30 AM, Phil Smith wrote:
> > > >> John McKown wrote:
> > > >>> https://www.channele2e.com/news/bmc-acquiring-ca-inc-
> going-private/
> > > >>
> > > >> If this goes through, I think we'll have to admit that antitrust is
> > > dead. Remember that DOJ examined the CA-Sterling deal way back in 2000
> > for
> > > antitrust, but let it go through. 17 years later, there are many fewer
> > > players...
> > > >> --
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >With the current administration and DOJ, you-know-what through a
> goose,
> > > >which is bad for all of us.
> > >
> > > Given the total size of the market I would say it is almost
> > > inevitable.  The number of mainframe shops probably is continuing to
> > > decline.  Millions of lines of COBOL code have been turfed in favor of
> > > SAP and its competitors.  In recent decades, IBM has not been that
> > > interested in the small mainframe shop even though these can grow into
> > > being big mainframe shops.  The market for ISVs is shrinking.
> > >
> > > Clark Morris
> > > >
> > > >---
> ---
> > > >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
> IBM-MAIN
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >
> > --
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>
>
>
> --
> sas
>
> --
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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Mark Pace]

I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie  wrote:

> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic
> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my laptop
> at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to recover.
> Be careful what you wish for.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
> of Edward Gould 
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 3:12 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts
> contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)
>
> > On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Clark Morris 
> wrote:
> >> __SNIP--
> 
> >
> > If the goal was to eliminate the need for highly technical people who
> > understand the platform and the tradeoffs, that is a futile goal for
> > any operating system.  If the goal is to eliminate the need for
> > assembler coded exits, this is more doable but customization will
> > always be with us.  While there can be plenty of obscurity in
> > assembler, how well documented are the SYS1.PARMLIB members and JES
> > initialization decks that control how the systems operate?  These are
> > just weird programming interfaces that can be every bit as cryptic.
> >
> > As someone who did his last systems programming in the 1990s, I would
> > hope that systems maintenance and upgrade has become a lot easier (and
> > if IBM made the Knowledge Center and Shopz 24/365.24 available) and
> > that less custom code is required because of all the new concerns that
> > I didn't have to deal with.  The environment has become more complex
> > for all of the operating systems so anything that can be eliminated is
> > to the good.  There is enough to do so that automation of some of the
> > grunt work is a good thing.
> >
> > Clark Morris
>
> Clark,
>
> The instructor just said systems programmers. I will agree with you on the
> exits and assembler though.
> Having said that I just cannot see a non assembler person going through
> system dumps. The needed CB structure and to decode machine language and
> understand what each instruction is attempting to do is just impossible (to
> me)to expect of an average COBOL programmer. Also having said that as long
> as IBM is as cryptic  as some of their messages can be *AND* trying to
> understand in context what the return code is sort of indicating would be
> daunting to and programmer type, IMO. AT least they got rid of “call your
> local system programmer” explanations in the M&C.
> As long as I semi brought up SERVPAC, IBM needlessly (IMO) complicated the
> install process. In my opinion CBIPO and CBPDO were pretty much as good as
> it is going to get. IBM should have kept the level of the base better up to
> date, was the only issue I had. It would have cut down on the Apply’s.
> Yes there are pluses for sevrpac but you stilll need to know a bit about
> SMPE. Given that SMPE is the standard for installation of maintenance I
> really don’t see SERVPAC being all that helpful. I know when I tried a
> couple of SERVPACs they were ugly and could be screwed up easily. The
> German support was less than typical IBM support.
> I got the feeling that (at least according to IBM) that customers
> complained about the cost of system programmers.
> Ed
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>



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DCB does not point to DEB

[Dirceu Bimonti Ivo]

Hi,

I was looking at the dump of a couple S0C4 we had a few days ago, seems to be 
happening on a load instruction to get dataset information. The formatted 
summary on IPCS shows this for the dataset in question:

*** DCB FORMAT ERROR.  DCB DOES NOT POINT TO DEB ***

That is true, DCBDEBA in the DCB does not point to the DEB (the DEBDCBAD in the 
DEB points correctly to the DCB). I am wondering how that came to be, storage 
overlay perhaps ? As far as I know, that information is set by the system, 
cannot be set by the DCB macro.

Strange enough, reallocating the dataset appears to have resolved the abends.  
: |

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Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

[Paul Gilmartin]

On 2017-06-23, at 06:48, Pew, Curtis G wrote:

> On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:15 PM, Frank Swarbrick wrote:
>> 
>> The MD5 is used to verify that the file sent from the mainframe has the same 
>> data when received on the interim distributed system.  So creating the MD5 
>> after its already there does no good.
> 
> I will just add 2 points:
> 
> 1. If you compute the MD5 hash while the file is still EBCDIC, you will get a 
> completely different value than the hash of the ASCII version. Hash 
> algorithms work on the binary representation, not the logical meaning.
>  
Yes.

> 2. If you’re trying to ensure the data hasn’t been intentionally modified, 
> MD5 is nearly useless. If you need a hash for detecting malicious corruption, 
> I’d use at least SHA2.
>  
Maybe.  I have yet to hear of a general preimage attack on MD5; only
cleverly crafted collisions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preimage_attack

But, exercise an abundance of caution.

Are there any prepackaged utilities that will use ICSF to:
o encrypt/decrypt a UNIX file
o generate/validate a hash of a UNIX file
... without resorting to an Assembler (or other language)
programming interface?

When I recommended SuperC over checksum, I neglected that there are
numerous Compare Type and process options that affect the strength
of the comparison.  I don't know which give the strictest comparison.

-- gil

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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:15:21 -0400, Mark Pace wrote:

>I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.
>
>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie wrote:
>
>> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic
>> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my laptop
>> at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to recover.
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>> 
I've had remarkably little difficulty, none that I recall, with updates to
Linux systems, Intel and ARM.  I do these electively, not automatically,
but I don't age them; I risk being an early adopter.

But my personal Linux systems can't be considered enterprise-critical.

-- gil

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IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Does anyone have a link to the IBM documentation for the Connect:Direct (NDM) 
product?  I tried using the regular z/OS library search mechanism but I am not 
getting any results.  I also tried the Sterling site but that doesn't seem to 
have any publically available documentation.

We are having an issue with the product and no one here seems to have any link 
to documentation.

TIA for any info you can provide.

Peter
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Re: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

[Lester, Bob]

Hi Peter,

 Try this?   https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSFGBN

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 10:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct? [ EXTERNAL ]

Does anyone have a link to the IBM documentation for the Connect:Direct (NDM) 
product?  I tried using the regular z/OS library search mechanism but I am not 
getting any results.  I also tried the Sterling site but that doesn't seem to 
have any publically available documentation.

We are having an issue with the product and no one here seems to have any link 
to documentation.

TIA for any info you can provide.

Peter
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Re: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

[Richards, Robert B.]

Try this:

https://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg27023598


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

Does anyone have a link to the IBM documentation for the Connect:Direct (NDM) 
product?  I tried using the regular z/OS library search mechanism but I am not 
getting any results.  I also tried the Sterling site but that doesn't seem to 
have any publically available documentation.

We are having an issue with the product and no one here seems to have any link 
to documentation.

TIA for any info you can provide.

Peter
--


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Re: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Thank you!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Richards, Robert B.
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

Try this:

https://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg27023598


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

Does anyone have a link to the IBM documentation for the Connect:Direct (NDM) 
product?  I tried using the regular z/OS library search mechanism but I am not 
getting any results.  I also tried the Sterling site but that doesn't seem to 
have any publically available documentation.

We are having an issue with the product and no one here seems to have any link 
to documentation.

TIA for any info you can provide.

Peter
--


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Re: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Thank you!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lester, Bob
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct?

Hi Peter,

 Try this?   https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSFGBN

Thanks!
BobL

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 10:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM Documentation for Connect:Direct? [ EXTERNAL ]

Does anyone have a link to the IBM documentation for the Connect:Direct (NDM) 
product?  I tried using the regular z/OS library search mechanism but I am not 
getting any results.  I also tried the Sterling site but that doesn't seem to 
have any publically available documentation.

We are having an issue with the product and no one here seems to have any link 
to documentation.

TIA for any info you can provide.

Peter
--


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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Some time ago an idea floated through my field of vision that IBM would 
eliminate even software distribution by supplying the entire OS on a chip. I 
must have missed the GA announcement...

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 8:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts 
contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:15:21 -0400, Mark Pace wrote:

>I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.
>
>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie wrote:
>
>> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic 
>> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my 
>> laptop at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to 
>> recover.
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>> 
I've had remarkably little difficulty, none that I recall, with updates to 
Linux systems, Intel and ARM.  I do these electively, not automatically, but I 
don't age them; I risk being an early adopter.

But my personal Linux systems can't be considered enterprise-critical.

-- gil


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Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

[Frank Swarbrick]

1. Yes, exactly.  This is why we generate the hash on the EBCDIC version on 
z/OS and send it in FTP binary to the distributed FTP server.  They then do the 
MD5 on this same (EBCDIC) data to verify the entire file was received.

2. Good point.  I don't know if the hash requirement is simply to make sure the 
full file was received on the z/OS -> FTP server step, or if there is something 
beyond that.  I will ask.  I'm not really on the project; I've just been asked 
to make some recommendations regarding issues they are having.

Thanks, Frank



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Pew, Curtis G 
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 6:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:15 PM, Frank Swarbrick  
wrote:
>
> The MD5 is used to verify that the file sent from the mainframe has the same 
> data when received on the interim distributed system.  So creating the MD5 
> after its already there does no good.

I will just add 2 points:

1. If you compute the MD5 hash while the file is still EBCDIC, you will get a 
completely different value than the hash of the ASCII version. Hash algorithms 
work on the binary representation, not the logical meaning.

2. If you’re trying to ensure the data hasn’t been intentionally modified, MD5 
is nearly useless. If you need a hash for detecting malicious corruption, I’d 
use at least SHA2.

--
Pew, Curtis G
curtis@austin.utexas.edu
ITS Systems/Core/Administrative Services


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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

Gee, I think that has been floating around for as long as, "Mainframes Are 
Dead!"

Al Nims
Systems Admin/Programmer 3
UFIT
University of Florida
(352) 273-1298

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 1:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor 
billing by 15 percent (our else)

Some time ago an idea floated through my field of vision that IBM would 
eliminate even software distribution by supplying the entire OS on a chip. I 
must have missed the GA announcement...

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 8:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts 
contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:15:21 -0400, Mark Pace wrote:

>I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.
>
>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie wrote:
>
>> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic 
>> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my 
>> laptop at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to 
>> recover.
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>> 
I've had remarkably little difficulty, none that I recall, with updates to 
Linux systems, Intel and ARM.  I do these electively, not automatically, but I 
don't age them; I risk being an early adopter.

But my personal Linux systems can't be considered enterprise-critical.

-- gil


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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

[esst...@juno.com]

Jesse Robinson wrote
"supplying the entire OS on a chip"

I heard a similar statement delivered by the Late Great Bob Yelevich in the 
early 1990s.
He suggested that CICS would be delivered on a Board, or possibly a 
component/domain would 
be delivered on a board.
.
.
As a contractor I have experienced the neglect in Installations, when Qualified 
Systems 
Programmers are not employed. I was in one installation where I inherited well 
over one 
hundred outstanding issues, Abends, Storage Violations, back level maintenance.

 



-- Original Message --
From: Jesse 1 Robinson 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor 
billing by 15 percent (our else)
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 17:30:24 +

Some time ago an idea floated through my field of vision that IBM would 
eliminate even software distribution by supplying the entire OS on a chip. I 
must have missed the GA announcement...

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office �=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 8:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts 
contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:15:21 -0400, Mark Pace wrote:

>I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.
>
>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie wrote:
>
>> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic 
>> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my 
>> laptop at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to 
>> recover.
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>> 
I've had remarkably little difficulty, none that I recall, with updates to 
Linux systems, Intel and ARM.  I do these electively, not automatically, but I 
don't age them; I risk being an early adopter.

But my personal Linux systems can't be considered enterprise-critical.

-- gil


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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

[John McKown]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 1:11 PM, esst...@juno.com  wrote:

> Jesse Robinson wrote
> "supplying the entire OS on a chip"
>
> I heard a similar statement delivered by the Late Great Bob Yelevich in
> the early 1990s.
> He suggested that CICS would be delivered on a Board, or possibly a
> component/domain would
> be delivered on a board.
>

​I remember from my first jobs, about 1979, DP (the name back then) was
looking at some mini-computer for the police department (City of Ft. Worth,
TX). The sales person showed us the equipment. And said that all software
maintenance was done by the hardware C.E. type person. He would put a tape
in the integrated drive and "press a button". That was it. Everything else
was just application level programming. The closest that I know of today is
the IBMi (nee AS/400) which supposedly only needs a "administrator" who
supposedly doesn't need to know much more than how to read a manual. Of
course, the OS being more or less "hard wired" into the hardware means that
there are basically NO internals documented.​



> .
> .
> As a contractor I have experienced the neglect in Installations, when
> Qualified Systems
> Programmers are not employed. I was in one installation where I inherited
> well over one
> hundred outstanding issues, Abends, Storage Violations, back level
> maintenance.
>


-- 
Veni, Vidi, VISA: I came, I saw, I did a little shopping.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 18:11:31 GMT, essteam wrote:

>Jesse Robinson wrote
>"supplying the entire OS on a chip"
>
>I heard a similar statement delivered by the Late Great Bob Yelevich in the 
>early 1990s.
>He suggested that CICS would be delivered on a Board, or possibly a 
>component/domain would 
>be delivered on a board.
>
Convergent evolution.  Nowadays, that chip might be a filesystem on a flash 
drive.

The TI Home Computer, circa 1981, tried something of the sort.  It was a very
closed system with software available only on proprietary pluggable modules.
It was not a resounding business success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A

-- gil

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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

esst...@juno.com (esst...@juno.com) writes:
> "supplying the entire OS on a chip"
>
> I heard a similar statement delivered by the Late Great Bob Yelevich
> in the early 1990s.  He suggested that CICS would be delivered on a
> Board, or possibly a component/domain would be delivered on a board.
> .
> .
> As a contractor I have experienced the neglect in Installations, when
> Qualified Systems Programmers are not employed. I was in one
> installation where I inherited well over one hundred outstanding
> issues, Abends, Storage Violations, back level maintenance.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017g.html#23 Eliminating the systems programmer 
was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

early 1975, I got sucked into helping get system enhancements out ... as
failing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

one was ECPS microcode assist for new 138/148  low & mid-range
machines implemented with vertical microcode (somewhat like Hercules
mainframe emulator) ... with a avg ratio of 10:1 native instructions per
370 instruction. was to select 6kbytes of most frequently executed
operating system code for moving into native ... for a 10:1 speedup.
(which turned out to be 79.55% of supervisor execution) old post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#21 370 ECPS VM microcode assist

I also got sucked into designing 5-way SMP for 370/125. 115/125 had nine
position memory bus for microprocessors. 115 had all microprocessors the
same just with different microcode loads for 370 processor, controllers,
etc. 125 was identical except the 370 processor was 50% faster than the
other processors.

I dropped multiprocessor dispatching/scheduling for problem state and
supervisor state into microcode ... with queued interface that put tasks
on the queue and pulled stuff off the queue. Lots of multiprocessor
operation was transparent to the actual software (all hidden in
microcode). I also did queued microcode interface for all I/O ...
putting stuff on the queue and pulling stuff off the queue.

The 370/125 multiprocessor was never announced or shipped (in part
becuase the 138/148 people complained it was overlapping their market, I
was in some escalation meetings where I had to argue both sides).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bounce

Early 80s, I was at bi-annual ACM SIGOPS meetings where the intel i432
people gave a talk on what they were doing ... which included a lot of
higher level function ... like I had done for 125 (lot of multiprocessor
and I/O operation was queued interface and transparent to "software").
They found out that their major problem was that all these advanced
functions was manufactured into the chip silicon ... and any fixes
required spinning new silicon and replacing all the chips.

as an aside ...  other stuff going into i432 was similar stuff to some
stuff that went into IBM S/38 ... which has been characterized as after
FS failure, some of the people retreated to Rochester and did a much
simplified FS flavor as S/38 (but again in microcode, not the raw
silicon). I've periodically pointed out that in the S/38 market the
trade-off between simplified operation and lack of sclability ... came
down on the side of simplified operation (in the high-end market, one of
the things that put the nails in FS coffin was showing 370/195
applications redone for FS, running on fastest possible FS hardware,
would have throughput of 370/145, about 30times slowdown).

past posts mentioning I432
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#6 Ridiculous
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#48 Famous Machines and Software that 
didn't
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#36 What was object oriented in iAPX432?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#27 iAPX432 today?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#19 Computer Architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#5 Anyone here ever use the iAPX432 ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#54 Reviving Multics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#23 Intel iAPX 432
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#24 Intel iAPX 432
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#47 Intel 860 and 960, was iAPX 432
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#52 Infiniband - practicalities for small 
clusters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#60 Will multicore CPUs have identical 
cores?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#64 Will multicore CPUs have identical 
cores?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#73 Athlon cache question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#64 Misuse of word "microcode"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#46 Performance and Capacity Planning
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#31 Intel strikes back with a parallel 
x86 design
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#47 IBM 610 workstation computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#42 Why is zSeries so CPU poor?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#44 Any resources on VLIW?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#7 32 or even 64 registers for x86-64?
http://www.garli

Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

john.archie.mck...@gmail.com (John McKown) writes:
> ​I remember from my first jobs, about 1979, DP (the name back then) was
> looking at some mini-computer for the police department (City of
> Ft. Worth, TX). The sales person showed us the equipment. And said
> that all software maintenance was done by the hardware C.E. type
> person. He would put a tape in the integrated drive and "press a
> button". That was it. Everything else was just application level
> programming. The closest that I know of today is the IBMi (nee AS/400)
> which supposedly only needs a "administrator" who supposedly doesn't
> need to know much more than how to read a manual. Of course, the OS
> being more or less "hard wired" into the hardware means that there are
> basically NO internals documented.​

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017g.html#23 Eliminating the systems programmer 
was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017g.html#28 Eliminating the systems programmer 
was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

"no internals documented" ... including hardware operation &
instructions

AS/400 was targeted at being migration path for s/36 and s/38 ... and
lower-level "FS" features (from s/38) were eliminated ... but because of
the very high-level ease of operation ... it was relatively
straight-forward to migrate both s/36 and s/38 to as/400.

starting late 70s, the was IBM program to migrate the multitude of
internal microprocessors to RISC (801 iliad chips)  low & mid range
370s, controllers, as/400, etc. For various reasons these programs
aborted (with risc engineers leaving for risc programs at other vendors)
... and things reverted to doing traditional CISC chips ...  including
crash CISC chip design program for as/400. However, the as/400 interface
is so high  that decade later, as/400 finally did migrate to 801
risc (power/pc).

past posts mentioning 801, risc, iliad, romp, rios, power, power/pc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

note about the same time apple macs went from motorola 68k to power/pc
 and since has moved to intel (latest change is claimed because IBM
wasn't doing power efficient power/pc chips for laptop market).

other triva: my brother was regional apple market rep (largest physical
region conus). I would get invited to business dinners and sometimes got
to argue mac design with the mac developers (before mac was announced).
He worked out how to get on online access to the hdqtrs system to track
manufacturing and delivery schedules ... which was an IBM S/38.

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

[Mark Pace]

Oh the great failed examples of VM/IS 4 & 5, took IBM 2 releases to figure
this was a disaster. Also SSX/VSE.  All thought they could have an
administrator install and maintain the system.  I can't recall the number
of times I was on the CritSit Desk for VM/IS 4.

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler 
wrote:

> esst...@juno.com (esst...@juno.com) writes:
> > "supplying the entire OS on a chip"
> >
> > I heard a similar statement delivered by the Late Great Bob Yelevich
> > in the early 1990s.  He suggested that CICS would be delivered on a
> > Board, or possibly a component/domain would be delivered on a board.
> > .
> > .
> > As a contractor I have experienced the neglect in Installations, when
> > Qualified Systems Programmers are not employed. I was in one
> > installation where I inherited well over one hundred outstanding
> > issues, Abends, Storage Violations, back level maintenance.
>
> re:
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017g.html#23 Eliminating the systems
> programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)
>
> early 1975, I got sucked into helping get system enhancements out ... as
> failing
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys
>
> one was ECPS microcode assist for new 138/148  low & mid-range
> machines implemented with vertical microcode (somewhat like Hercules
> mainframe emulator) ... with a avg ratio of 10:1 native instructions per
> 370 instruction. was to select 6kbytes of most frequently executed
> operating system code for moving into native ... for a 10:1 speedup.
> (which turned out to be 79.55% of supervisor execution) old post
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#21 370 ECPS VM microcode assist
>
> I also got sucked into designing 5-way SMP for 370/125. 115/125 had nine
> position memory bus for microprocessors. 115 had all microprocessors the
> same just with different microcode loads for 370 processor, controllers,
> etc. 125 was identical except the 370 processor was 50% faster than the
> other processors.
>
> I dropped multiprocessor dispatching/scheduling for problem state and
> supervisor state into microcode ... with queued interface that put tasks
> on the queue and pulled stuff off the queue. Lots of multiprocessor
> operation was transparent to the actual software (all hidden in
> microcode). I also did queued microcode interface for all I/O ...
> putting stuff on the queue and pulling stuff off the queue.
>
> The 370/125 multiprocessor was never announced or shipped (in part
> becuase the 138/148 people complained it was overlapping their market, I
> was in some escalation meetings where I had to argue both sides).
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bounce
>
> Early 80s, I was at bi-annual ACM SIGOPS meetings where the intel i432
> people gave a talk on what they were doing ... which included a lot of
> higher level function ... like I had done for 125 (lot of multiprocessor
> and I/O operation was queued interface and transparent to "software").
> They found out that their major problem was that all these advanced
> functions was manufactured into the chip silicon ... and any fixes
> required spinning new silicon and replacing all the chips.
>
> as an aside ...  other stuff going into i432 was similar stuff to some
> stuff that went into IBM S/38 ... which has been characterized as after
> FS failure, some of the people retreated to Rochester and did a much
> simplified FS flavor as S/38 (but again in microcode, not the raw
> silicon). I've periodically pointed out that in the S/38 market the
> trade-off between simplified operation and lack of sclability ... came
> down on the side of simplified operation (in the high-end market, one of
> the things that put the nails in FS coffin was showing 370/195
> applications redone for FS, running on fastest possible FS hardware,
> would have throughput of 370/145, about 30times slowdown).
>
> past posts mentioning I432
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#6 Ridiculous
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#48 Famous Machines and Software
> that didn't
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#36 What was object oriented in
> iAPX432?
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#27 iAPX432 today?
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#19 Computer Architectures
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#5 Anyone here ever use the iAPX432
> ?
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#54 Reviving Multics
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#23 Intel iAPX 432
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#24 Intel iAPX 432
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#47 Intel 860 and 960, was iAPX 432
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#52 Infiniband - practicalities for
> small clusters
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#60 Will multicore CPUs have
> identical cores?
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#64 Will multicore CPUs have
> identical cores?
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#73 Athlon cache question
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#64 Mi

Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

[Farley, Peter x23353]

I don't agree about SSX/VSE.  I worked on that system at a small ISV in the 
80's and It was a pretty nifty system for its time.  Ran on low-power 4331' s 
with 3310 FBA DASD, all system maintenance was via ICCF (the VSE equivalent of 
ISPF) menus and canned jobs, and it worked like a charm for us.  We were able 
to set up our own software product maintenance and configuration as ICCF menus 
and the few SSX/VSE clients we had loved it.  It was actually fun to work on.

The hardest part was getting used to FBA file allocation parameters (blocks, 
not tracks!).

ISTR that the sales folk liked using the SSX/VSE system for demos while we had 
it in house because it made everything look easy.

Sometimes good ideas get abandoned too soon.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mark Pace
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 3:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil 
ling by 15 percent (our else)

Oh the great failed examples of VM/IS 4 & 5, took IBM 2 releases to figure
this was a disaster. Also SSX/VSE.  All thought they could have an
administrator install and maintain the system.  I can't recall the number
of times I was on the CritSit Desk for VM/IS 4.


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Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Clark Morris]

[Default] On 23 Jun 2017 06:14:21 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
pacemainl...@gmail.com (Mark Pace) wrote:

>I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.

As I understand it the continuous update is to be done by applying
updates at times determined by the installation.  While there is the
problem of function enhancement and change being inter-mixed with
corrective code including integrity APARs, the disruption time is
chosen by the installation.

I have Windows 10 Home on the three computers at home and this version
will reboot my computer to apply fixes outside of normal working
hours.  The normal working hours can not be set to effectively be the
full 24 hours in a day.  Thus I have had unattended uploads trashed
and my wife and I have both been lucky that we have not lost any data
due to this careless implementation of update.  Further the
irresponsible people at Microsoft have decided to make it impossible
to shutdown without update.  This of course could be disastrous in a
power outage or imminent loss situation.  Of course it would be nice
to be able to apply updates the way the Tandem systems do without
bringing down the system.  

Unfortunately connection to the Internet on any platform means that
integrity APARs or their equivalent must be applied as soon as
feasible.  My disagreement with Microsoft is forced update under all
circumstances.  I can accept the annoyance of constant reminders to
update.

Clark Morris
>
>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie  wrote:
>
>> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic
>> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my laptop
>> at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to recover.
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf
>> of Edward Gould 
>> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 3:12 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts
>> contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)
>>
>> > On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Clark Morris 
>> wrote:
>> >> __SNIP--
>> 
>> >
>> > If the goal was to eliminate the need for highly technical people who
>> > understand the platform and the tradeoffs, that is a futile goal for
>> > any operating system.  If the goal is to eliminate the need for
>> > assembler coded exits, this is more doable but customization will
>> > always be with us.  While there can be plenty of obscurity in
>> > assembler, how well documented are the SYS1.PARMLIB members and JES
>> > initialization decks that control how the systems operate?  These are
>> > just weird programming interfaces that can be every bit as cryptic.
>> >
>> > As someone who did his last systems programming in the 1990s, I would
>> > hope that systems maintenance and upgrade has become a lot easier (and
>> > if IBM made the Knowledge Center and Shopz 24/365.24 available) and
>> > that less custom code is required because of all the new concerns that
>> > I didn't have to deal with.  The environment has become more complex
>> > for all of the operating systems so anything that can be eliminated is
>> > to the good.  There is enough to do so that automation of some of the
>> > grunt work is a good thing.
>> >
>> > Clark Morris
>>
>> Clark,
>>
>> The instructor just said systems programmers. I will agree with you on the
>> exits and assembler though.
>> Having said that I just cannot see a non assembler person going through
>> system dumps. The needed CB structure and to decode machine language and
>> understand what each instruction is attempting to do is just impossible (to
>> me)to expect of an average COBOL programmer. Also having said that as long
>> as IBM is as cryptic  as some of their messages can be *AND* trying to
>> understand in context what the return code is sort of indicating would be
>> daunting to and programmer type, IMO. AT least they got rid of “call your
>> local system programmer” explanations in the M&C.
>> As long as I semi brought up SERVPAC, IBM needlessly (IMO) complicated the
>> install process. In my opinion CBIPO and CBPDO were pretty much as good as
>> it is going to get. IBM should have kept the level of the base better up to
>> date, was the only issue I had. It would have cut down on the Apply’s.
>> Yes there are pluses for sevrpac but you stilll need to know a bit about
>> SMPE. Given that SMPE is the standard for installation of maintenance I
>> really don’t see SERVPAC being all that helpful. I know when I tried a
>> couple of SERVPACs they were ugly and could be screwed up easily. The
>> German support was less than typical IBM support.
>> I got the feeling that (at least according to IBM) that customers
>> complained about the cost of system programmers.
>> Ed
>> --
>> For 

Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Bobbie Justice]

"As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic updates. 
Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my laptop at least 10 
times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to recover. Be careful what 
you wish for."

Ditto on windows anything. I've had quite enough of windows automatic updates, 
system restore, reboot, safe mode, reload the entire operating system, reload 
various drivers, reload various apps, reboot again, etc. etc. 

No thanks.   

Bobbie Jo Justice 
Senior z/OS Systems Engineer 

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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor bil ling by 15 percent (our else)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:36:32 -0400, Mark Pace wrote:

>Oh the great failed examples of VM/IS 4 & 5, took IBM 2 releases to figure
>this was a disaster. Also SSX/VSE.  All thought they could have an
>administrator install and maintain the system.  I can't recall the number
>of times I was on the CritSit Desk for VM/IS 4.
> 
And a product called something like "Instant UNIX", an OS/390 (or about
that era) stripped to nothing but OpenEdition: no batch, no TSO.  I thought
it was supposed to be serviced by SMP/E, but I never knew how that was
supposed to work without batch.

IBM quickly realized that Linux on the mainframe more closely matched
customer requirements, and provided higher performance and greater
portability across IBM's hardware product lines.

-- gil

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Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

[Kirk Wolf]

You could do it all on z/OS, assuming that you have the encryption program
there that you want.  Many are available.

For example, using our Co:Z Toolkit it would be something like:

//SHELL EXEC PGM=COZBATCH,  # a better BPXBATCH
//   PARM='/ IDSN=HLQ.MY.DSN'
//ENCRYPT  DD DISP=(NEW,CATALOG,DELETE),SPACE=(..),
//DCB=(RECFM=U,BLKSIZE=27998),
//DSN=...
//STDIN  DD *

# first get a checksum hash of the EBCDIC data.
#   see the z/OS Unix cksum doc for more information and options
fromdsn -b $IDSN |
cksum > cksum.txt

# convert to ascii using your favorite encoding, preserving trailing record
# spaces, using newline terminators.
# Pipe the output into your encryption program (or directly to a file
# and encrypt in a separate step)
set -o pipecurrent
fromdsn -k -l nl -s IBM-1047 -t ISO8859-1 $IDSN  |
my-encrypt-program  |
todsn -b //DD:ENCRYPT
//

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologes
http://dovetail.com

Co:Z Toolkit is available free under our Community License.

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Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[John McKown]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Bobbie Justice <
0013e2d84072-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> "As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic
> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my laptop
> at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to recover.
> Be careful what you wish for."
>
> Ditto on windows anything. I've had quite enough of windows automatic
> updates, system restore, reboot, safe mode, reload the entire operating
> system, reload various drivers, reload various apps, reboot again, etc. etc.
>
> No thanks.
>

​At home, I have Windows 7 Professional which I run in a VM under Linux -
Fedora 25. The _only_ time that I use this is to log on to work. It is
_required_ because work eliminated our VPN in favor of using "Microsoft
Terminal Server Gateway". This decision was made during the height of the
"We are going 100.0% Microsoft! If it's not MS, we will refuse to run
it!" to the sounds of cheering by the Windows support staff.This was
immediately after our business-oriented CIO retired and the Windows
Infrastructure manager was promoted to CIO. That person is gone, but parts
of his "legacy" remains.



>
> Bobbie Jo Justice
> Senior z/OS Systems Engineer
>
>
-- 
Veni, Vidi, VISA: I came, I saw, I did a little shopping.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

[Alan Altmark]

On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 22:25:21 +, Frank Swarbrick 
 wrote:

> We have a requirement to store some information in an encrypted ASCII file 
> (that is, it was ASCII prior to being encrypted) 
> on a distributed platform over which we have no control.  We also have a 
> requirement that we make sure that no data is
> lost during transmission.

Do you have a requirement to create an encrypted ASCII file?  Or do you have a 
requirement to decrypt and save (store) a clear-text EBCDIC version of such a 
file?

Don't overthink the solution.  Just remember that ASCII text files are streams 
with CRLFs in them, which means the CRLFs are part of the encrypted data.  You 
don't encrypt the LINES of a file and then append CRLFs.  (Tempting in EBCDIC 
systems.)

Is the encryption solely for the purpose of file transmission?  Or does it need 
to be encrypted at rest for other reasons?  I would be tempted to just use 
TLS-enabled FTP.  TLS ensures that the data is not altered in transmission, so 
the MD5 is superfluous for that purpose.

Alan Altmark
IBM Lab Services
z/VM and Linux

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Re: Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

After our So Cal z User Group meeting last week, I feel that 'continuous 
update' has been misunderstood. We had a presentation on DB2 
latest-greatest-and-beyond. I'm not a DB2 guy, but having lived in the 
copter-wash of DB2 version upgrades several times in the last few years, I see 
hope in the new paradigm. 

DB2 will not dump changes on us unexpectedly. On the contrary, it's version 
upgrades that enforce wholesale changes in huge chunks that hit us all at once. 
A troublesome version change has to be dealt with even if it's irrelevant to 
the installation. Continuous update allows a shop to pick and choose feature 
and function and schedule the timing independent of other changes. If it works 
as intended, continuous update will be a huge step forward.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems 
programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Default] On 23 Jun 2017 06:14:21 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
pacemainl...@gmail.com (Mark Pace) wrote:

>I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.

As I understand it the continuous update is to be done by applying updates at 
times determined by the installation.  While there is the problem of function 
enhancement and change being inter-mixed with corrective code including 
integrity APARs, the disruption time is chosen by the installation.

I have Windows 10 Home on the three computers at home and this version will 
reboot my computer to apply fixes outside of normal working hours.  The normal 
working hours can not be set to effectively be the full 24 hours in a day.  
Thus I have had unattended uploads trashed and my wife and I have both been 
lucky that we have not lost any data due to this careless implementation of 
update.  Further the irresponsible people at Microsoft have decided to make it 
impossible to shutdown without update.  This of course could be disastrous in a 
power outage or imminent loss situation.  Of course it would be nice to be able 
to apply updates the way the Tandem systems do without bringing down the 
system.  

Unfortunately connection to the Internet on any platform means that integrity 
APARs or their equivalent must be applied as soon as feasible.  My disagreement 
with Microsoft is forced update under all circumstances.  I can accept the 
annoyance of constant reminders to update.

Clark Morris
>
>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie  wrote:
>
>> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic 
>> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my 
>> laptop at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to 
>> recover.
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on 
>> behalf of Edward Gould 
>> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 3:12 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts 
>> contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)
>>
>> > On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Clark Morris 
>> > 
>> wrote:
>> >> __SNIP--
>> 
>> >
>> > If the goal was to eliminate the need for highly technical people 
>> > who understand the platform and the tradeoffs, that is a futile 
>> > goal for any operating system.  If the goal is to eliminate the 
>> > need for assembler coded exits, this is more doable but 
>> > customization will always be with us.  While there can be plenty of 
>> > obscurity in assembler, how well documented are the SYS1.PARMLIB 
>> > members and JES initialization decks that control how the systems 
>> > operate?  These are just weird programming interfaces that can be every 
>> > bit as cryptic.
>> >
>> > As someone who did his last systems programming in the 1990s, I 
>> > would hope that systems maintenance and upgrade has become a lot 
>> > easier (and if IBM made the Knowledge Center and Shopz 24/365.24 
>> > available) and that less custom code is required because of all the 
>> > new concerns that I didn't have to deal with.  The environment has 
>> > become more complex for all of the operating systems so anything 
>> > that can be eliminated is to the good.  There is enough to do so 
>> > that automation of some of the grunt work is a good thing.
>> >
>> > Clark Morris
>>
>> Clark,
>>
>> The instructor just said systems programmers. I will agree with you 
>> on the exits and assembler though.
>> Having said that I just cannot see a non assembler person going 
>> through system dumps. The needed CB str

SoCal z?

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

(Meant to post to entire List.)
-
So Cal z User Group has been meeting once a quarter for the last few years. 
Meetings so far have been hosted by Pacific Life Insurance at their customer 
conference center in Newport Beach, a great venue. The agenda consists of two 
one-hour presentations with lunch provided at no charge. Most pitches have been 
from IBM-including some well-known folks who've flown in just for us-but some 
user experience and ISV sessions have been scheduled as well. Attendance has 
pushed 100(!)from all over Southern California.

To get on the invitation list, send a note to Ichi Brenden at 
i...@us.ibm.com .

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
robin...@sce.com


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Re: Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Field, Alan]

Sounds like a variant of the SPE (Small Program Enhancement) of a few decades 
ago :),m and Selectable Units. 

Alan Field
Systems Engineer Principal
Blue Cross Blue Shield of MN

651.662.3546

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 4:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems programmer 
was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

CAUTION:  This email originated outside of the organization.
DO NOT CLICK links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know 
the content is safe.

__
After our So Cal z User Group meeting last week, I feel that 'continuous 
update' has been misunderstood. We had a presentation on DB2 
latest-greatest-and-beyond. I'm not a DB2 guy, but having lived in the 
copter-wash of DB2 version upgrades several times in the last few years, I see 
hope in the new paradigm. 

DB2 will not dump changes on us unexpectedly. On the contrary, it's version 
upgrades that enforce wholesale changes in huge chunks that hit us all at once. 
A troublesome version change has to be dealt with even if it's irrelevant to 
the installation. Continuous update allows a shop to pick and choose feature 
and function and schedule the timing independent of other changes. If it works 
as intended, continuous update will be a huge step forward.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems 
programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Default] On 23 Jun 2017 06:14:21 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
pacemainl...@gmail.com (Mark Pace) wrote:

>I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.

As I understand it the continuous update is to be done by applying updates at 
times determined by the installation.  While there is the problem of function 
enhancement and change being inter-mixed with corrective code including 
integrity APARs, the disruption time is chosen by the installation.

I have Windows 10 Home on the three computers at home and this version will 
reboot my computer to apply fixes outside of normal working hours.  The normal 
working hours can not be set to effectively be the full 24 hours in a day.  
Thus I have had unattended uploads trashed and my wife and I have both been 
lucky that we have not lost any data due to this careless implementation of 
update.  Further the irresponsible people at Microsoft have decided to make it 
impossible to shutdown without update.  This of course could be disastrous in a 
power outage or imminent loss situation.  Of course it would be nice to be able 
to apply updates the way the Tandem systems do without bringing down the 
system.  

Unfortunately connection to the Internet on any platform means that integrity 
APARs or their equivalent must be applied as soon as feasible.  My disagreement 
with Microsoft is forced update under all circumstances.  I can accept the 
annoyance of constant reminders to update.

Clark Morris
>
>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie  wrote:
>
>> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic 
>> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my 
>> laptop at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to 
>> recover.
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on 
>> behalf of Edward Gould 
>> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 3:12 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts 
>> contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)
>>
>> > On Jun 22, 2017, at 6:50 PM, Clark Morris 
>> > 
>> wrote:
>> >> __SNIP--
>> 
>> >
>> > If the goal was to eliminate the need for highly technical people 
>> > who understand the platform and the tradeoffs, that is a futile 
>> > goal for any operating system.  If the goal is to eliminate the 
>> > need for assembler coded exits, this is more doable but 
>> > customization will always be with us.  While there can be plenty of 
>> > obscurity in assembler, how well documented are the SYS1.PARMLIB 
>> > members and JES initialization decks that control how the systems 
>> > operate?  These are just weird programming interfaces that can be every 
>> > bit as cryptic.
>> >
>> > As someone who did his last systems programming in the 

Re: Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

SPE is very much alive and well, especially since the change to two-year cycle 
for z/OS release. The big difference is that SPEs are effectively part of the 
normal maintenance stream. You can avoid installing one for a while, but 
eventually it gets preREQed by some other fix(es) that you may need. Whether 
you really want the SPE or not.

With continuous maintenance, you install PTFs but are not obligated to activate 
new function until you're ready. And then it can be piecemeal in individual 
environments. At least that's the promise. 
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Field, Alan
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems 
programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

Sounds like a variant of the SPE (Small Program Enhancement) of a few decades 
ago :),m and Selectable Units. 

Alan Field
Systems Engineer Principal
Blue Cross Blue Shield of MN

651.662.3546

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 4:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems programmer 
was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

CAUTION:  This email originated outside of the organization.
DO NOT CLICK links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know 
the content is safe.

__
After our So Cal z User Group meeting last week, I feel that 'continuous 
update' has been misunderstood. We had a presentation on DB2 
latest-greatest-and-beyond. I'm not a DB2 guy, but having lived in the 
copter-wash of DB2 version upgrades several times in the last few years, I see 
hope in the new paradigm. 

DB2 will not dump changes on us unexpectedly. On the contrary, it's version 
upgrades that enforce wholesale changes in huge chunks that hit us all at once. 
A troublesome version change has to be dealt with even if it's irrelevant to 
the installation. Continuous update allows a shop to pick and choose feature 
and function and schedule the timing independent of other changes. If it works 
as intended, continuous update will be a huge step forward.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Windows 10 auto update was Re: Eliminating the systems 
programmer was Re: IBM cuts contractor billing by 15 percent (our else)

[Default] On 23 Jun 2017 06:14:21 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
pacemainl...@gmail.com (Mark Pace) wrote:

>I am afraid this new "Continuous Update" may lead to the same thing.

As I understand it the continuous update is to be done by applying updates at 
times determined by the installation.  While there is the problem of function 
enhancement and change being inter-mixed with corrective code including 
integrity APARs, the disruption time is chosen by the installation.

I have Windows 10 Home on the three computers at home and this version will 
reboot my computer to apply fixes outside of normal working hours.  The normal 
working hours can not be set to effectively be the full 24 hours in a day.  
Thus I have had unattended uploads trashed and my wife and I have both been 
lucky that we have not lost any data due to this careless implementation of 
update.  Further the irresponsible people at Microsoft have decided to make it 
impossible to shutdown without update.  This of course could be disastrous in a 
power outage or imminent loss situation.  Of course it would be nice to be able 
to apply updates the way the Tandem systems do without bringing down the 
system.  

Unfortunately connection to the Internet on any platform means that integrity 
APARs or their equivalent must be applied as soon as feasible.  My disagreement 
with Microsoft is forced update under all circumstances.  I can accept the 
annoyance of constant reminders to update.

Clark Morris
>
>On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Bill Wilkie  wrote:
>
>> As I  am reading this, all I can think of is Windows 10 and Automatic 
>> updates. Since accidentally going to Windows 10, I have crashed my 
>> laptop at least 10 times and spent many days and a lot of money trying to 
>> recover.
>> Be careful what you wish for.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> __

Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:57:41 -0500, Alan Altmark wrote:
>
>Don't overthink the solution.  Just remember that ASCII text files are streams 
>with CRLFs in them, which means the CRLFs are part of the encrypted data.  You 
>don't encrypt the LINES of a file and then append CRLFs.  (Tempting in EBCDIC 
>systems.)
> 
What' s this "CR" nonsense?  z/OS doesn't use it.  (Does OpenExtensions?)

-- gil

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Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

[Frank Swarbrick]

I am definitely going to propose this.  I don't know what encryption is being 
used, but if available this seems to make the most sense.  I sense wariness 
about doing anything "new" on the mainframe, but it just seems to make the most 
sense.

We'll see how it goes!

Frank


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Kirk Wolf 
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

You could do it all on z/OS, assuming that you have the encryption program
there that you want.  Many are available.

For example, using our Co:Z Toolkit it would be something like:

//SHELL EXEC PGM=COZBATCH,  # a better BPXBATCH
//   PARM='/ IDSN=HLQ.MY.DSN'
//ENCRYPT  DD DISP=(NEW,CATALOG,DELETE),SPACE=(..),
//DCB=(RECFM=U,BLKSIZE=27998),
//DSN=...
//STDIN  DD *

# first get a checksum hash of the EBCDIC data.
#   see the z/OS Unix cksum doc for more information and options
fromdsn -b $IDSN |
cksum > cksum.txt

# convert to ascii using your favorite encoding, preserving trailing record
# spaces, using newline terminators.
# Pipe the output into your encryption program (or directly to a file
# and encrypt in a separate step)
set -o pipecurrent
fromdsn -k -l nl -s IBM-1047 -t ISO8859-1 $IDSN  |
my-encrypt-program  |
todsn -b //DD:ENCRYPT
//

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologes
http://dovetail.com
Dovetailed Technologies, LLC
dovetail.com
The Co:Z Co-Processing Toolkit is a collection of tools for connecting z/OS 
platforms to other computing environments securely and reliably.



Co:Z Toolkit is available free under our Community License.

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Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

[Frank Swarbrick]

It must be encrypted such that when decrypted on an ASCII platform (or any 
platform, really) it will be in ASCII.  Not sure on the line separator 
requirement, but I will find out.

Your comment about TLS ensuring the data is not altered in transmission is 
interesting.  As far as I know the only concern there is that in the past we've 
sent files from z/OS (or more often sent files to z/OS) and the file ended up 
being truncated (for example, the FTP client job was somehow cancelled part way 
through).  Or at least that is the concern.  Not sure that TLS could guard 
against that.  (Yes, I know, Connect: Direct could, but we don't have C:D for 
z/OS.)

It does need to be encrypted at rest, as it will be offsite at a location not 
under our control.

Thanks!  Frank


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Alan Altmark 
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: EBCDIC, ASCII, ugh

On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 22:25:21 +, Frank Swarbrick 
 wrote:

> We have a requirement to store some information in an encrypted ASCII file 
> (that is, it was ASCII prior to being encrypted)
> on a distributed platform over which we have no control.  We also have a 
> requirement that we make sure that no data is
> lost during transmission.

Do you have a requirement to create an encrypted ASCII file?  Or do you have a 
requirement to decrypt and save (store) a clear-text EBCDIC version of such a 
file?

Don't overthink the solution.  Just remember that ASCII text files are streams 
with CRLFs in them, which means the CRLFs are part of the encrypted data.  You 
don't encrypt the LINES of a file and then append CRLFs.  (Tempting in EBCDIC 
systems.)

Is the encryption solely for the purpose of file transmission?  Or does it need 
to be encrypted at rest for other reasons?  I would be tempted to just use 
TLS-enabled FTP.  TLS ensures that the data is not altered in transmission, so 
the MD5 is superfluous for that purpose.

Alan Altmark
IBM Lab Services
z/VM and Linux

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Re: IBM customer anchor

[Mike Schwab]

If they register a three letter message prefix with IBM then they are left
with 5 characters for individual products/requests.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 01:00:46 -0500, Brian Westerman wrote:
>
> >I know we had to contact CA and Sterling, as well as Landmark Systems
> about using our offset.  The only one that gave us a hard time about it was
> CA, who told us they "had it first", and then tried both money and threats
> to have us give it up and go back and ask for another one.  I believe our
> legal-eze, highly professional response was something like "pound salt".
> >
> I assume that worked.  Good.  What was your legal ground:
> o Implied warranty of merchantability?  But any clever vendor will
>   expressly disclaim that "to the extent permitted by state law".
> o Contract language to that effect?
> o Pound salt?
>
> Had CA squatted on their claim before IBM established a registry?
>
> >... we decided that name/tokens were probably a better way to go ...
> >
> What precludes collisions of name/tokens?  Simply bigger name space?
> But remember the birthday problem -- pretty soon someone will suffer.
> "com.syzygyinc.xx"?  (16 isn't enough!)
>
> --gil
>
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: SoCal z?

[Brian Westerman]

Last time we offered to provide a free 1 year use any one of our Automation 
products to the attendees, and we sent in the offer brochure but never heard 
back from anyone on if they wanted to provide the information to the group 
until about a month later when the returned email as invalid address came back 
to us.  

We are willing to give it another shot if the group is interested, but we 
didn't want to be pushy about it.

Brian Westerman
Syzygy Incorporated

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Re: IBM customer anchor

[Brian Westerman]

I think it was just a matter of who sent the letter.  When it came from a 
competitor, they were aggressive, but when it came from a lawyer, especially as 
it was from a big firm, they gave up fairly quickly.

When you think about it though, we really could not force them to do anything, 
we could have complained to Peter or IBM, but that doesn't really mean that 
they (IBM) have any real pull with a place like CA either.  In the end it has 
to be that the person or vendor who was violating the policy has to "do the 
right thing".

Brian

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