Re: IEE345I Modify invalid authority

2020-08-30 Thread Peter
Thank you for your response

So I believe I need to introduce RACF OPERCMDS even if it is maintained by
ISFPRMXX.



On Mon, 31 Aug, 2020, 9:11 am Brian Westerman, <
brian_wester...@syzygyinc.com> wrote:

> Even if you maintain SDSF via SAF (which you have to do by z/OS 2.5
> because that's all that will be supported) you will still have to update
> the RACF OPERCMDS class (TSO RACF option 2 (general resource profiles)).
>
> The profile name you need to update (for MVS batch and STC's) is
> MVS.MODIFY.**, for JES2 related stuff it would be JES2.MODIFY.**.  I made
> it simplistic by using the ** after the modify.  You can actually get
> pretty specific about what tasks are allowed to be modified by whom, but I
> figured you just wanted to get around your problem right now.
>
> Brian
>
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Re: IEE345I Modify invalid authority

2020-08-30 Thread Brian Westerman
Even if you maintain SDSF via SAF (which you have to do by z/OS 2.5 because 
that's all that will be supported) you will still have to update the RACF 
OPERCMDS class (TSO RACF option 2 (general resource profiles)).  

The profile name you need to update (for MVS batch and STC's) is MVS.MODIFY.**, 
for JES2 related stuff it would be JES2.MODIFY.**.  I made it simplistic by 
using the ** after the modify.  You can actually get pretty specific about what 
tasks are allowed to be modified by whom, but I figured you just wanted to get 
around your problem right now.

Brian

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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread CM Poncelet
FWIW This VSAM index issue is most likely due to CI/CA splits. I would
suggest unloading/deleting/reloading the complete VSAM cluster (if
necessary ALTERing the original VSAM cluster to some temp other names
instead of deleting it, after the unload and as a fall-back) to fix
this. A FREESPACE(ca,ci) on reload is unlikely to achieve anything other
than to waste DASD space. A dump of its current VSAM index would show
what the actual problem is.

On 31/08/2020 04:16, Mike Schwab wrote:
> Well a 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 11, 13, or 14 track index has 1 track CAs, 3, 6,
> 9, or 12 for a 3 track CA, 5 or 10 for a 5 track CA, 15 tracks or more
> for a 1 cylinder CA.  Details then vary based on key size,
> FREESPACE(ca ci) values, etc.  Assuming reload after backup, delete,
> define, restore.  If you just delete old records then use will go up
> with free space left by delete but insert doesn't use that space.
> I.E. time stamp particularly bad primary key.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:07 PM Michael Watkins
> <032966e74d0f-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> More efficient in terms of fewer index LEVELs as Tony Thigpen may have been 
>> getting at? I thought the number of LEVELs was contingent on the the size of 
>> the file and the number of CI  and CA splits the index component had endured 
>> and not the allocation of contiguous space for the index component on DASD. 
>> A REORG should reduce the number of LEVELs to its smallest possible number, 
>> no?
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
>> Mike Schwab
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:48 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component
>>
>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Texas Comptroller's email 
>> system.
>> DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you expect them from the 
>> sender and know the content is safe.
>>
>> CYL(4 1) should leave one cylinder empty.  Cylinder CA will result is a more 
>> efficient index.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lizette Koehler  
>> wrote:
>>> List -
>>>
>>> I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set
>>> up - the INDEX space was left to default
>>>
>>> I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and
>>> put it in Cylinders.
>>>
>>> We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.
>>> I was wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.
>>>
>>> This file is EA/EF so it can grow
>>>
>>> Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data
>>>
>>> And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB
>>> During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current
>>> data back in
>>>
>>> This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if
>>> there are any insights I am missing.
>>>
>>> Process:
>>> Offload the data to a temp file
>>> Archive records older than 2 weeks
>>> Del/Def VSAM dataset
>>> Reload current records to VSAM dataset
>>> This runs daily
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> Lizette
>>>
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
>>> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> --
>> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
>> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
>> --
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>> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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>
>

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Re: IEE345I Modify invalid authority

2020-08-30 Thread Lizette Koehler
Just curious why you do not control SDSF through your SAF Product.

I removed all of my ISFPARMxx setup and allow our SAF to control who can do 
what in SDSF.  Now the security team is responsible.

Lizette


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Peter
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 8:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IEE345I Modify invalid authority

Hello

I am trying to issue a command using SDSF batch and I end up with

IEE345I Modify invalid authority failed by MVS

We have secured SDSF using ISFPRM

My ID and group are part of NTBL in ISFPRMxx and group name is assigned under 
the GROUP which maps to my RACF Group (Default)

We are in zOS 2.2 and apart from above what else I need to look ?

Any pointers are much appreciated

Regards
Peter

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IEE345I Modify invalid authority

2020-08-30 Thread Peter
Hello

I am trying to issue a command using SDSF batch and I end up with

IEE345I Modify invalid authority failed by MVS

We have secured SDSF using ISFPRM

My ID and group are part of NTBL in ISFPRMxx and group name is assigned
under the GROUP which maps to my RACF Group (Default)

We are in zOS 2.2 and apart from above what else I need to look ?

Any pointers are much appreciated

Regards
Peter

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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Mike Schwab
Well a 1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 11, 13, or 14 track index has 1 track CAs, 3, 6,
9, or 12 for a 3 track CA, 5 or 10 for a 5 track CA, 15 tracks or more
for a 1 cylinder CA.  Details then vary based on key size,
FREESPACE(ca ci) values, etc.  Assuming reload after backup, delete,
define, restore.  If you just delete old records then use will go up
with free space left by delete but insert doesn't use that space.
I.E. time stamp particularly bad primary key.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:07 PM Michael Watkins
<032966e74d0f-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> More efficient in terms of fewer index LEVELs as Tony Thigpen may have been 
> getting at? I thought the number of LEVELs was contingent on the the size of 
> the file and the number of CI  and CA splits the index component had endured 
> and not the allocation of contiguous space for the index component on DASD. A 
> REORG should reduce the number of LEVELs to its smallest possible number, no?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Mike Schwab
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:48 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Texas Comptroller's email 
> system.
> DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you expect them from the sender 
> and know the content is safe.
>
> CYL(4 1) should leave one cylinder empty.  Cylinder CA will result is a more 
> efficient index.
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lizette Koehler  
> wrote:
> >
> > List -
> >
> > I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set
> > up - the INDEX space was left to default
> >
> > I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and
> > put it in Cylinders.
> >
> > We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.
> > I was wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.
> >
> > This file is EA/EF so it can grow
> >
> > Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data
> >
> > And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB
> > During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current
> > data back in
> >
> > This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if
> > there are any insights I am missing.
> >
> > Process:
> > Offload the data to a temp file
> > Archive records older than 2 weeks
> > Del/Def VSAM dataset
> > Reload current records to VSAM dataset
> > This runs daily
> >
> > Thank you
> > Lizette
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> --
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Clark Morris
[Default] On 30 Aug 2020 15:12:07 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
stars...@mindspring.com (Lizette Koehler) wrote:

>List -
>
> 
>
>I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set up -
>the INDEX space was left to default
>
One other thing to check for in addition to the other recommendations
given is whether or not the file should have grown this large.  I ran
into a case in one shop I was at where records were getting on the
file but because of a coding error only certain ones were getting
updated and removed.  I was a systems programmer who went back into
applications and was actually tracking down why a run time had
increased.

Clark Morris
>
>I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and put it
>in Cylinders.
>
> 
>
>We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.  I was
>wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.  This file
>is EA/EF so it can grow
>
> 
>
>Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data 
>
>And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB
>
> 
>
> 
>
>During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current data
>back in.
>
> 
>
>This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if there
>are any insights I am missing.
>
> 
>
>Process:
>Offload the data to a temp file
>
>Archive records older than 2 weeks
>
>Del/Def VSAM dataset
>
>Reload current records to VSAM dataset
>
> 
>
>This runs daily
>
>
>Thank you 
>
> 
>
>Lizette
>
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Tony Thigpen
Number of index levels is affected by data CA/CI sizes, index CA/CI 
sizes and how well the key "compresses" between adjacent CIs. Until you 
have a loaded file, you can't be positive about how many levels you 
have. But, once you have it loaded, it's easier to make adjustments 
prior to another re-load. Too many index levels usually indicate 
something else is not right.


Tony Thigpen

Michael Watkins wrote on 8/30/20 9:07 PM:

More efficient in terms of fewer index LEVELs as Tony Thigpen may have been 
getting at? I thought the number of LEVELs was contingent on the the size of 
the file and the number of CI  and CA splits the index component had endured 
and not the allocation of contiguous space for the index component on DASD. A 
REORG should reduce the number of LEVELs to its smallest possible number, no?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Texas Comptroller's email 
system.
DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you expect them from the sender 
and know the content is safe.

CYL(4 1) should leave one cylinder empty.  Cylinder CA will result is a more 
efficient index.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lizette Koehler  wrote:


List -

I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set
up - the INDEX space was left to default

I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and
put it in Cylinders.

We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.
I was wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.

This file is EA/EF so it can grow

Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data

And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB
During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current
data back in

This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if
there are any insights I am missing.

Process:
Offload the data to a temp file
Archive records older than 2 weeks
Del/Def VSAM dataset
Reload current records to VSAM dataset
This runs daily

Thank you
Lizette

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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Michael Watkins
More efficient in terms of fewer index LEVELs as Tony Thigpen may have been 
getting at? I thought the number of LEVELs was contingent on the the size of 
the file and the number of CI  and CA splits the index component had endured 
and not the allocation of contiguous space for the index component on DASD. A 
REORG should reduce the number of LEVELs to its smallest possible number, no?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Texas Comptroller's email 
system.
DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you expect them from the sender 
and know the content is safe.

CYL(4 1) should leave one cylinder empty.  Cylinder CA will result is a more 
efficient index.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lizette Koehler  wrote:
>
> List -
>
> I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set 
> up - the INDEX space was left to default
>
> I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and 
> put it in Cylinders.
>
> We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.  
> I was wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.  
>
> This file is EA/EF so it can grow
>
> Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data
>
> And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB
> During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current 
> data back in
>
> This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if 
> there are any insights I am missing.
>
> Process:
> Offload the data to a temp file
> Archive records older than 2 weeks
> Del/Def VSAM dataset
> Reload current records to VSAM dataset
> This runs daily
>
> Thank you
> Lizette
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Mike Schwab
CYL(4 1) should leave one cylinder empty.  Cylinder CA will result is
a more efficient index.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lizette Koehler  wrote:
>
> List -
>
>
>
> I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set up -
> the INDEX space was left to default
>
>
>
> I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and put it
> in Cylinders.
>
>
>
> We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.  I was
> wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.  This file
> is EA/EF so it can grow
>
>
>
> Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data
>
> And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB
>
>
>
>
>
> During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current data
> back in.
>
>
>
> This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if there
> are any insights I am missing.
>
>
>
> Process:
> Offload the data to a temp file
>
> Archive records older than 2 weeks
>
> Del/Def VSAM dataset
>
> Reload current records to VSAM dataset
>
>
>
> This runs daily
>
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> Lizette
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Tony Thigpen

How many index levels do you have?

Tony Thigpen

Lizette Koehler wrote on 8/30/20 6:11 PM:

List -

  


I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set up -
the INDEX space was left to default

  


I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and put it
in Cylinders.

  


We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.  I was
wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.  This file
is EA/EF so it can grow

  


Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data

And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB

  

  


During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current data
back in.

  


This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if there
are any insights I am missing.

  


Process:
Offload the data to a temp file

Archive records older than 2 weeks

Del/Def VSAM dataset

Reload current records to VSAM dataset

  


This runs daily


Thank you

  


Lizette


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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Michael Watkins
Of course, buffering will probably do the most to improve VSAM REORG times.

For the sequential reads through the cluster that are typical of REORG 
activity, add the ',AMP=('BUFNI=x,BUFND=yyy')' parameter to the DD card, where 
'x' equals the number of index component LEVELS displayed in the IDCAMS 
'LISTCAT ENT() ALL' output and 'yyy' equals the number of data 
component CIs in one data CA.

This will assure that every chain of channel commands reads an entire virtual 
cylinder. When the virtual read/write heads cross a cylinder boundaries, the 
channel program will lose control, so no more than a cylinder can be read or 
written by a channel program.

To optimize the value of 'yyy' for BUFND, look at the data component of the 
'LISTC  ENT() ALL'. Find the values for 'CI/CA' and 'TRACKS/CA'. Since 
there are 15 tracks in a 3390 cylinder, you can easily calculate the number of 
data CIs in one cylinder. Add one to this value and use that for BUFND.

Why add one? Some pople say the code reserves one CI for SPLIT activity, even 
when the odds of it occuring are low. Some people say adding one for a CI 
reserved for SPLIT activity is an old-wives tale, but it seems to work.

-Original Message-
From: Michael Watkins  
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 6:00 PM
To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
Cc: Michael Watkins 
Subject: RE: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

The index component alone is 2.4 MB? 2,400,000/56664 = 43 tracks? Sure, 
Allocate the index component as 4 or even 5 cylinders primary and a single 
cylinder secondary.


If the cluster has changed significantly over time, I might also run an IDCAMS 
EXAMINE command:

EXAMINE NAME() INDEXTEST DATATEST

And look for:

IDC01728I FOUND n EMPTY CONTROL AREAS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN RECLAIMED IDC11775I 
nnn DATA COMPONENT CIS ARE ESTIMATED TO BE UNREACHABLE 

These may indicate that you want to change the index CI size, although buffer 
specifications may also have to change if you do.


And I assume you have already activated 'CA reclaim' for all pertinent 
DATACLASes in ISMF.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lizette Koehler
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 5:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Texas Comptroller's email 
system.
DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you expect them from the sender 
and know the content is safe.

List -



I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set up - the 
INDEX space was left to default



I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and put it in 
Cylinders.



We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.  I was 
wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.  This file is 
EA/EF so it can grow



Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data

And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB





During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current data back 
in.



This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if there 
are any insights I am missing.



Process:
Offload the data to a temp file

Archive records older than 2 weeks

Del/Def VSAM dataset

Reload current records to VSAM dataset



This runs daily


Thank you



Lizette


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Re: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Michael Watkins
The index component alone is 2.4 MB? 2,400,000/56664 = 43 tracks? Sure, 
Allocate the index component as 4 or even 5 cylinders primary and a single 
cylinder secondary.


If the cluster has changed significantly over time, I might also run an IDCAMS 
EXAMINE command:

EXAMINE NAME() INDEXTEST DATATEST

And look for:

IDC01728I FOUND n EMPTY CONTROL AREAS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN RECLAIMED
IDC11775I nnn DATA COMPONENT CIS ARE ESTIMATED TO BE UNREACHABLE 

These may indicate that you want to change the index CI size, although buffer 
specifications may also have to change if you do.


And I assume you have already activated 'CA reclaim' for all pertinent 
DATACLASes in ISMF.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lizette Koehler
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 5:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Texas Comptroller's email 
system.
DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you expect them from the sender 
and know the content is safe.

List -



I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set up - the 
INDEX space was left to default



I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and put it in 
Cylinders.



We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.  I was 
wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.  This file is 
EA/EF so it can grow



Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data

And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB





During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current data back 
in.



This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if there 
are any insights I am missing.



Process:
Offload the data to a temp file

Archive records older than 2 weeks

Del/Def VSAM dataset

Reload current records to VSAM dataset



This runs daily


Thank you



Lizette


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Simple VSAM question on sizing INDEX component

2020-08-30 Thread Lizette Koehler
List -

 

I have a VSAM Dataset that has grown over the years.  When it was set up -
the INDEX space was left to default

 

I am wondering if it makes sense to override the Track Allocation and put it
in Cylinders.

 

We are noticing a little bit of an increase in run time during reorg.  I was
wondering if this might be due to the data set having 3.4GB now.  This file
is EA/EF so it can grow

 

Over 4500 Cylinders on the Data 

And the index is using tracks 2 pri and 11 sec - size is now 2.4 MB

 

 

During reorg we offload records to an archive then reload the current data
back in.

 

This may be something I cannot improve on, just thought I would see if there
are any insights I am missing.

 

Process:
Offload the data to a temp file

Archive records older than 2 weeks

Del/Def VSAM dataset

Reload current records to VSAM dataset

 

This runs daily


Thank you 

 

Lizette


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Re: Sending email from the Mainframe

2020-08-30 Thread Seymour J Metz
My source is the IETF, and every issue is a semantic issue. I did searches for 
bounce and DSN on a bunch of RFCs, and they all agreed. In particular, thr RFC 
that you cited, 3464, lists DSN types that are not bounces.


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Grant Taylor <023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 11:33 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sending email from the Mainframe

On 8/29/20 6:50 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> According to the IETF, every bounce is a DSN but not every DSN is a bounce.

Would you please cite your source?

I also wonder if we're having somewhat of a semantic issue.  I'm
specifically referring to a bounce (which is a superset of the latter)
that is formatted per RFC 3464 -- An Extensible Message Format for
Delivery Status Notifications (which is a subset of the former).

Per RFC 3462 § 2 — Format of a Delivery Status Notification — A DSN is a
MIME message with a top-level content-type of multipart/report (defined
in [REPORT]).  When a multipart/report content is used to transmit a DSN:

(a) The report-type parameter of the multipart/report content is
"delivery-status".

(b) The first component of the multipart/report contains a
human-readable explanation of the DSN, as described in [REPORT].

(c) The second component of the multipart/report is of content-type
message/delivery-status, described in section 2.1 of this document.

(d) If the original message or a portion of the message is to be
returned to the sender, it appears as the third component of the
multipart/report.

Not all bounces conform to these specifications, ergo not all bounces
are a DSN (as specified by RFC 3462).  All (failure) DSNs are bounces.

Aside:  I guess there are also success DSNs.  I don't know if they would
be considered a bounce or not.  They are an email about the delivery of
another email, thus fall into the category of bounce like email.



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Re: Sending email from the Mainframe

2020-08-30 Thread Grant Taylor

On 8/29/20 6:50 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

According to the IETF, every bounce is a DSN but not every DSN is a bounce.


Would you please cite your source?

I also wonder if we're having somewhat of a semantic issue.  I'm 
specifically referring to a bounce (which is a superset of the latter) 
that is formatted per RFC 3464 -- An Extensible Message Format for 
Delivery Status Notifications (which is a subset of the former).


Per RFC 3462 § 2 — Format of a Delivery Status Notification — A DSN is a 
MIME message with a top-level content-type of multipart/report (defined 
in [REPORT]).  When a multipart/report content is used to transmit a DSN:


(a) The report-type parameter of the multipart/report content is 
"delivery-status".


(b) The first component of the multipart/report contains a 
human-readable explanation of the DSN, as described in [REPORT].


(c) The second component of the multipart/report is of content-type 
message/delivery-status, described in section 2.1 of this document.


(d) If the original message or a portion of the message is to be 
returned to the sender, it appears as the third component of the 
multipart/report.


Not all bounces conform to these specifications, ergo not all bounces 
are a DSN (as specified by RFC 3462).  All (failure) DSNs are bounces.


Aside:  I guess there are also success DSNs.  I don't know if they would 
be considered a bounce or not.  They are an email about the delivery of 
another email, thus fall into the category of bounce like email.




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