Re: Switching between SMT-1 and SMT-2

[Andrew Rowley]

On 31/08/2023 10:50 pm, Scott Chapman wrote:

But z/OS "densely packs" the cores, meaning that if a work unit is running on a 
zIIP core and another zIIP eligible work unit comes in it will run on the second thread 
on the already busy zIIP core instead of being dispatched to an available but unused zIIP 
core. As I understand it, this was done because PR/SM dispatches cores, not threads, to 
the LPARs and this dense packing makes that easier.


Very interesting, I can see how that would cause problems.

It seems like an attempted optimization that actually causes problems in 
the real world i.e. anyone not already running zIIPs at 100%.


The solution seems simple - IBM could change the dispatching to work 
exactly the same for SMT-1 and SMT-2, until a work unit would have to 
wait. Then instead of waiting it gets dispatched as a second thread. 
Maybe you lose a few % at the top end, but it becomes something the 
customer can turn on and use without analysis.


The current situation sounds like SMT-2 should only be used if you

a) have a single zIIP

or b) are running your zIIPs consistently 100% busy

and for b) you need to turn it off when the workload reduces?

--
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

RACF for using SDSF

[Joseph Reichman]

Hi 

 

I am getting the following message on my ADCD system

 

ISF024I USER ADCDANOT AUTHORIZED TO SDSF, NO GROUP ASSIGNMENT

 

I tried  ALU ADCDA GROUP(SYS1) this is the group that my other tso Is which
has access to SDSF 

 

Regardless after I do the command and do a LU ADCDA the group still shows up
as TEST

 

When doing ALU ADCDA DFLTGRP(SYS1) racf says its not connected

 

thanks 


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: RACF for using SDSF

[Colin Paice]

did you logoff and logon again?

On Mon, 4 Sept 2023 at 15:19, Joseph Reichman  wrote:

> Hi
>
>
>
> I am getting the following message on my ADCD system
>
>
>
> ISF024I USER ADCDANOT AUTHORIZED TO SDSF, NO GROUP ASSIGNMENT
>
>
>
> I tried  ALU ADCDA GROUP(SYS1) this is the group that my other tso Is which
> has access to SDSF
>
>
>
> Regardless after I do the command and do a LU ADCDA the group still shows
> up
> as TEST
>
>
>
> When doing ALU ADCDA DFLTGRP(SYS1) racf says its not connected
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Peter Sylvester]

Namen sind Schall und Rauch,

Some parts of the discussion reminds me to Lewis Carroll, Through the looking 
glass.

It reminds me to the citation that that I made in ibmmail descript

https://www.funet.fi/pub/doc/netinfo/EARN/ (There are some other gems in 
that directory).

"song" = "what is your profession."


Peter Sylvester




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: RACF for using SDSF

[Joseph Reichman]

Joe Reichman
Yep even did setropts refresh

On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 10:22 AM Colin Paice  wrote:

> did you logoff and logon again?
>
> On Mon, 4 Sept 2023 at 15:19, Joseph Reichman 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> >
> >
> > I am getting the following message on my ADCD system
> >
> >
> >
> > ISF024I USER ADCDANOT AUTHORIZED TO SDSF, NO GROUP ASSIGNMENT
> >
> >
> >
> > I tried  ALU ADCDA GROUP(SYS1) this is the group that my other tso Is
> which
> > has access to SDSF
> >
> >
> >
> > Regardless after I do the command and do a LU ADCDA the group still shows
> > up
> > as TEST
> >
> >
> >
> > When doing ALU ADCDA DFLTGRP(SYS1) racf says its not connected
> >
> >
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: RACF for using SDSF

[Rob Scott]

Joseph,

I think you need to use the "CONNECT" command instead of ALTUSER :

CONNECT userid GROUP(group_name)

Afterwards a "LISTUSER userid" command should list all groups that the user is 
connected to.

As most sites run with "list of groups checking", there is normally no need to 
change the default group after a CONNECT.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Joseph Reichman
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 3:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: RACF for using SDSF

EXTERNAL EMAIL





Hi



I am getting the following message on my ADCD system



ISF024I USER ADCDANOT AUTHORIZED TO SDSF, NO GROUP ASSIGNMENT



I tried  ALU ADCDA GROUP(SYS1) this is the group that my other tso Is which has 
access to SDSF



Regardless after I do the command and do a LU ADCDA the group still shows up as 
TEST



When doing ALU ADCDA DFLTGRP(SYS1) racf says its not connected



thanks


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: RACF for using SDSF

[Itschak Mugzach]

You do not need to have sys1 as a default group. Che k if you are
authorised to sdsf isf.connect profile

ITschak

בתאריך יום ב׳, 4 בספט׳ 2023 ב-17:34 מאת Rob Scott :

> Joseph,
>
> I think you need to use the "CONNECT" command instead of ALTUSER :
>
> CONNECT userid GROUP(group_name)
>
> Afterwards a "LISTUSER userid" command should list all groups that the
> user is connected to.
>
> As most sites run with "list of groups checking", there is normally no
> need to change the default group after a CONNECT.
>
> Rob Scott
> Rocket Software
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Joseph Reichman
> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 3:19 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: RACF for using SDSF
>
> EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> I am getting the following message on my ADCD system
>
>
>
> ISF024I USER ADCDANOT AUTHORIZED TO SDSF, NO GROUP ASSIGNMENT
>
>
>
> I tried  ALU ADCDA GROUP(SYS1) this is the group that my other tso Is
> which has access to SDSF
>
>
>
> Regardless after I do the command and do a LU ADCDA the group still shows
> up as TEST
>
>
>
> When doing ALU ADCDA DFLTGRP(SYS1) racf says its not connected
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> 
> Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA
> 02451 ■ Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
> Contact Customer Support:
> https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
> Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences -
> http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
> Privacy Policy -
> http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy
> 
>
> This communication and any attachments may contain confidential
> information of Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> notify Rocket Software immediately and destroy all copies of this
> communication. Thank you.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: RACF for using SDSF

[Joseph Reichman]

You got it did the connect and I am good 

thanks

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Itschak Mugzach
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 10:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: RACF for using SDSF

You do not need to have sys1 as a default group. Che k if you are authorised to 
sdsf isf.connect profile

ITschak

בתאריך יום ב׳, 4 בספט׳ 2023 ב-17:34 מאת Rob Scott :

> Joseph,
>
> I think you need to use the "CONNECT" command instead of ALTUSER :
>
> CONNECT userid GROUP(group_name)
>
> Afterwards a "LISTUSER userid" command should list all groups that the 
> user is connected to.
>
> As most sites run with "list of groups checking", there is normally no 
> need to change the default group after a CONNECT.
>
> Rob Scott
> Rocket Software
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 3:19 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: RACF for using SDSF
>
> EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> I am getting the following message on my ADCD system
>
>
>
> ISF024I USER ADCDANOT AUTHORIZED TO SDSF, NO GROUP ASSIGNMENT
>
>
>
> I tried  ALU ADCDA GROUP(SYS1) this is the group that my other tso Is 
> which has access to SDSF
>
>
>
> Regardless after I do the command and do a LU ADCDA the group still 
> shows up as TEST
>
>
>
> When doing ALU ADCDA DFLTGRP(SYS1) racf says its not connected
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> 
> Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA
> 02451 ■ Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323 Contact Customer 
> Support:
> https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
> Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription 
> Preferences - 
> http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
> Privacy Policy -
> http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy
> 
>
> This communication and any attachments may contain confidential 
> information of Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure 
> or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
> please notify Rocket Software immediately and destroy all copies of 
> this communication. Thank you.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

SMF Extract Using to find the user id who deleted datasets

[Sathish Kumar]

Hi Team,

One of our system datasets someone deleted we are not sure who deleted
those datasets.  How we can find which user ID deleted a dataset?

I tried to run the SMF extract job using record type 65 but was not able to
find it.

Pls suggest me

Thanks

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: SMF Extract Using to find the user id who deleted datasets

[Ituriel do Neto]

Hi,

There is a utility on CBT site that may help you to find it.
It is called DAF.


Best Regards

Ituriel do Nascimento Neto
z/OS System Programmer






Em segunda-feira, 4 de setembro de 2023 às 11:59:36 BRT, Sathish Kumar 
 escreveu: 





Hi Team,

One of our system datasets someone deleted we are not sure who deleted
those datasets.  How we can find which user ID deleted a dataset?

I tried to run the SMF extract job using record type 65 but was not able to
find it.

Pls suggest me

Thanks

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Seymour J Metz]

ITYM quotation, and IMHO that quote should be part of the curriculum for any 
school of CS, cited whenever discussing handles, indirect addressing or 
pointers. It wouldn't hurt for the IBM tech writers to keep it in mind when 
documenting parameters.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Peter Sylvester 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 10:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

Namen sind Schall und Rauch,

Some parts of the discussion reminds me to Lewis Carroll, Through the looking 
glass.

It reminds me to the citation that that I made in ibmmail descript

https://www.funet.fi/pub/doc/netinfo/EARN/ (There are some other gems in 
that directory).

"song" = "what is your profession."


Peter Sylvester




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Steve Thompson]

Well said.

On 9/4/2023 2:24 AM, Bernd Oppolzer wrote:

FWIW:

I have a computer science degree from the university of 
Stuttgart, Germany (from 1977 to 1985).
We learned Pascal first, then different Assembler languages. 
During my studies, I got interested in
compiler construction, and I am the maintainer of the New 
Stanford Pascal compiler today, look here:

http://bernd-oppolzer.de/job9.htm

Later I learned Fortran, RPG, COBOL, PL/1, REXX of course ...

During my career I met many very sharp people who didn't have a 
degree (only some sort of
on-site education, starting as an insurance specialist, for 
example, then changing to the IT department),
but they had the same (system) programming skills that I had. 
The degree is not what made me a
systems programmer. But I would not accept someone as a systems 
programmer who cannot program
in ASSEMBLER (on IBM mainframes) or in C (at Unix and Windows 
platforms). All others IMO are

some sort of admins.

Regarding "machine code": I also did classes for dump analysis, 
and one of my students said,
Bernd is reading dumps of machine code like others read the 
newspaper :-)
I don't want to do that; my Pascal compiler writes language 
specific dumps, where the variables
and there contents are shown in Pascal syntax, but if there are 
no such tools, and nothing helps
and the error must be solved, I read the hex dumps, of course. 
No matter if the system is MVS or VSE.


Kind regards

Bernd


Am 04.09.2023 um 04:56 schrieb Bill Johnson:
Nothing more arrogant than saying someone isn’t a systems 
programmer unless they have my abilities. And your education 
is meaningless, just ask Gabe Goldberg or “machine language” 
Bernd.






-- 


For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 
IBM-MAIN


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Bill Johnson]

To claim people who don’t code assembler or read dumps aren’t systems 
programmers is idiotic.

Sure, there are some people who don’t need college to be good systems 
programmers, but I’ll bet you don’t get heart surgery from a guy/gal who isn’t 
trained by a college and you don’t hire a lawyer who doesn’t have the degree 
and passed the bar.

The vast majority of people who made significant societal contributions and 
advances, were trained by college educated professionals.

I doubt the advances in technology, medicine, science, or other knowledge based 
industries would have occurred without higher education.

I learned zero JCL in college. I learned and became an expert at EDS. But, 
college gave me the wherewithal to know how to study and succeed.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 2:25 AM, Bernd Oppolzer 
 wrote:

FWIW:

I have a computer science degree from the university of Stuttgart, 
Germany (from 1977 to 1985).
We learned Pascal first, then different Assembler languages. During my 
studies, I got interested in
compiler construction, and I am the maintainer of the New Stanford 
Pascal compiler today, look here:
http://bernd-oppolzer.de/job9.htm

Later I learned Fortran, RPG, COBOL, PL/1, REXX of course ...

During my career I met many very sharp people who didn't have a degree 
(only some sort of
on-site education, starting as an insurance specialist, for example, 
then changing to the IT department),
but they had the same (system) programming skills that I had. The degree 
is not what made me a
systems programmer. But I would not accept someone as a systems 
programmer who cannot program
in ASSEMBLER (on IBM mainframes) or in C (at Unix and Windows 
platforms). All others IMO are
some sort of admins.

Regarding "machine code": I also did classes for dump analysis, and one 
of my students said,
Bernd is reading dumps of machine code like others read the newspaper :-)
I don't want to do that; my Pascal compiler writes language specific 
dumps, where the variables
and there contents are shown in Pascal syntax, but if there are no such 
tools, and nothing helps
and the error must be solved, I read the hex dumps, of course. No matter 
if the system is MVS or VSE.

Kind regards

Bernd


Am 04.09.2023 um 04:56 schrieb Bill Johnson:
> Nothing more arrogant than saying someone isn’t a systems programmer unless 
> they have my abilities. And your education is meaningless, just ask Gabe 
> Goldberg or “machine language” Bernd.
>
>
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Seymour J Metz]

My loss of innocence was when, as a HS student, I had to explain a multiple 
linear regression program to a woman with an MA in Statistics. The degree 
changes the odds that you understand your major, but it is neither necessary 
nor sufficient. It's something to take into account, but there are plenty of 
excellent programmers without degrees.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bernd Oppolzer 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 2:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

FWIW:

I have a computer science degree from the university of Stuttgart,
Germany (from 1977 to 1985).
We learned Pascal first, then different Assembler languages. During my
studies, I got interested in
compiler construction, and I am the maintainer of the New Stanford
Pascal compiler today, look here:
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1BkSHCYQxC88CAxeo_0zBvpsyBHaAW9hqf3FnhSG6Apwq6deuk_AjtZ_6COxg8XyVDTuIswWIRERJONH9qKgiqWW-tL2KjMu0xVC5bMC1PlV5Ne5eXXbqQJq-I1vQHeoRTmmfbxRslMCXZuAssMl9AiK28kUly9d8r85b4lJKwjBV8HtUlmG2K5pWla-8RaEuGxz5c_Kc8_Udjr-T15PXaHpFrQWJiWgxJThHhkqDs83L7rHgrZyrJLopliweEsR5dytex1fAA2qXecjXFRy8xRL3ZmMk_UD7cik0WiGmW7UTEWawM0n78aRWXjkps5-bF0cwKm26F6kBP3Zo7w4RLuwzg6KnntJ6uVF7P00dF0qaUoXLiFQNcmFs43geOoAl6jeppmhJADGThQNSSYYEwT9hdYM6RUZ_5E28qENT0jc/http%3A%2F%2Fbernd-oppolzer.de%2Fjob9.htm

Later I learned Fortran, RPG, COBOL, PL/1, REXX of course ...

During my career I met many very sharp people who didn't have a degree
(only some sort of
on-site education, starting as an insurance specialist, for example,
then changing to the IT department),
but they had the same (system) programming skills that I had. The degree
is not what made me a
systems programmer. But I would not accept someone as a systems
programmer who cannot program
in ASSEMBLER (on IBM mainframes) or in C (at Unix and Windows
platforms). All others IMO are
some sort of admins.

Regarding "machine code": I also did classes for dump analysis, and one
of my students said,
Bernd is reading dumps of machine code like others read the newspaper :-)
I don't want to do that; my Pascal compiler writes language specific
dumps, where the variables
and there contents are shown in Pascal syntax, but if there are no such
tools, and nothing helps
and the error must be solved, I read the hex dumps, of course. No matter
if the system is MVS or VSE.

Kind regards

Bernd


Am 04.09.2023 um 04:56 schrieb Bill Johnson:
> Nothing more arrogant than saying someone isn’t a systems programmer unless 
> they have my abilities. And your education is meaningless, just ask Gabe 
> Goldberg or “machine language” Bernd.
>
>
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Asking questions and learning.

[Grant Taylor]

Old Subject: Re: With regrets, after many years I will no longer be 
following IBM-MAIN

New Subject: Re: Asking questions and learning.

On 9/4/23 12:36 AM, Brian Westerman wrote:
I think even the ones that abuse the list the most still provide 
assistance from time to time that is very useful.


This is why -- if I feel the need -- I'll create a filter rule to mark 
messages as read for specific criteria; sender, subject, age, etc., but 
leave them in situ.  That way I can go back and read them if I want to.


I completely understand that oftentimes they want the person to RTFM, 
which makes a lot of sense because you also don't want the list to 
become a primary school.


Ya, "do my homework for me" type statements, not even questions, tend to 
become quite annoying quite quickly.


The "new guys" need to learn how to use the manuals and I think the 
"old guys" are trying to, in their own way, help them to see that 
using the manuals and figuring stuff out is a good thing.


Most of the time I try to refer people to specific sections of specific 
manuals or suggest a set of search criteria that I think will get people 
close to what they are looking for or trying to understand. 
Occasionally I'll even suggest something that's more background reading, 
telling them as such, and a reason why they should read more than just 
the section with the answer they seek.  Often I append after you've done 
that, let's have a conversation based on what you will have read.  Or 
something to that effect.


N.B. I'm perfectly fine with shoes on the other feet and find advice 
like above to be quite helpful.


Where it becomes an issue is when the newbie honestly can't figure 
it out and may have truly tried to find the solution on their own.


Agreed.

It might be helpful for them, in fact everyone, to disclose what you 
have already tried or read about, that way everyone will see that they 
are trying and won't just kiss them off as using the list instead of 
manuals (and the internet) as opposed to using it in conjunction with 
attempting to learn.


Absolutely.

This is the "do my homework assignment" thing I was describing above.

What have you read on the topic, what have you tried, why were the 
results not satisfactory, what are you trying to achieve, etc.  These 
are all things that help the people who you are trying to get to help you.


Sometimes they may have actually read the solution, but just don't 
see it as such, and by disclosing what they have tried so far will 
allow people to let them know where they missed something.  I think 
that no one likes to think that the guy asking the question is not 
even really trying to work the problem.  But without disclosing the 
path they are currently on, we have no way to know otherwise.


I was talking with someone the other day whom, for various reasons, they 
felt that they could not demonstrate failure in front of others.  As 
such, asking for help was sometimes very hard for them.  They felt it 
easier to try multiple different things and fail than to potentially 
demonstrate failure.


There are many reasons people do what they do and there are as many 
different ways that people learn.



Just a thought.


:-)



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: With regrets, after many years I will no longer be following IBM-MAIN

[Seymour J Metz]

One thing to keep in mind is that people have fluctuating demands on their 
time. The same person may give very terse advice when he's busy but cite, quote 
and provide a link for the documentation when he has time. Also, some will 
invest more time helping those who have done their homework.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Brian Westerman 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 1:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: With regrets, after many years I will no longer be following 
IBM-MAIN

I think even the ones that abuse the list the most still provide assistance 
from time to time that is very useful.  I completely understand that oftentimes 
they want the person to RTFM, which makes a lot of sense because you also don't 
want the list to become a primary school.  The "new guys" need to learn how to 
use the manuals and I think the "old guys" are trying to, in their own way, 
help them to see that using the manuals and figuring stuff out is a good thing. 
 Where it becomes an issue is when the newbie honestly can't figure it out and 
may have truly tried to find the solution on their own.

It might be helpful for them, in fact everyone, to disclose what you have 
already tried or read about, that way everyone will see that they are trying 
and won't just kiss them off as using the list instead of manuals (and the 
internet) as opposed to using it in conjunction with attempting to learn.

Sometimes they may have actually read the solution, but just don't see it as 
such, and by disclosing what they have tried so far will allow people to let 
them know where they missed something.  I think that no one likes to think that 
the guy asking the question is not even really trying to work the problem.  But 
without disclosing the path they are currently on, we have no way to know 
otherwise.

Just a thought.

Brian

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Bill Johnson]

William: 

Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the mainframe.

Chatgpt:

Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program written in 
High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input and prints their 
sum:
         PRINT NOGEN         TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define storage 
for input numbers and result*NUM1     DS    F             First input 
numberNUM2     DS    F             Second input numberRESULT   DS    F          
   Result of addition** Main program*MAIN     C      0      NUM1   Check if 
NUM1 is zero         BE     ZERO            Branch to ZERO if true** Read the 
first number from input*         GET    NUM1,NUMIN      Read NUM1 from input    
     LA     0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into register** Read the second number 
from input*         GET    NUM2,NUMIN      Read NUM2 from input         A      
NUM1,NUM2       Add NUM1 and NUM2         ST     NUM1,RESULT     Store the 
result in RESULT** Print the result*         PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT   Print the 
result** Terminate the program*         SR     15,15           Set return code 
to 0         BR     14              Return to caller** Define input and output 
areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'           Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT   DC    F'0' 
          Output buffer for resultZERO     DC    F'0'           Constant zero   
      END   MAIN            End of program
Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes. In a 
real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your specific 
mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language programming can be 
quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation for your specific 
mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and correctness.




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:

>William: 
>
>Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the mainframe.
>
Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!

In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.

>Chatgpt:
>
>Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program written in 
>High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input and prints 
>their sum:
>         PRINT NOGEN         TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define storage 
>for input numbers and result*NUM1     DS    F             First input 
>numberNUM2     DS    F             Second input numberRESULT   DS    F         
>    Result of addition** Main program*MAIN     C      0      NUM1   Check if 
>NUM1 is zero         BE     ZERO            Branch to ZERO if true** Read the 
>first number from input*         GET    NUM1,NUMIN      Read NUM1 from input   
>      LA     0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into register** Read the second number 
>from input*         GET    NUM2,NUMIN      Read NUM2 from input         A      
>NUM1,NUM2       Add NUM1 and NUM2         ST     NUM1,RESULT     Store the 
>result in RESULT** Print the result*         PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT   Print the 
>result** Terminate the program*         SR     15,15           Set return code 
>to 0         BR     14              Return to caller** Define input and output 
>areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'           Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT   DC    
>F'0'           Output buffer for resultZERO     DC    F'0'           Constant 
>zero         END   MAIN            End of program
>Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes. In a 
>real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your specific 
>mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language programming can be 
>quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation for your specific 
>mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and correctness.

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Matt Hogstrom]

Apart from the poor formatting I’ll share that ChatGPT does a poor job at
assembler.  Largely, I think, due to the lack of samples.  If you look for
Python, Node or other code examples it does an amazing job (although not
perfect).

I wouldn’t “blame” ChatGPT inasmuch as I’d understand that AI is nothing
more at this point than a capability based on a large knowledge base of
which Assembler is not much of one.

What is more disturbing is the level of confidence portrayed when providing
an answer which is clearly wrong.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 09:57 Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>
> >William:
> >
> >Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the
> mainframe.
> >
> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>
> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>
> >Chatgpt:
> >
> >Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program
> written in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input
> and prints their sum:
> > PRINT NOGEN TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define
> storage for input numbers and result*NUM1 DSF First
> input numberNUM2 DSF Second input numberRESULT   DS
>  F Result of addition** Main program*MAIN C  0
>  NUM1   Check if NUM1 is zero BE ZEROBranch to ZERO
> if true** Read the first number from input* GETNUM1,NUMIN
>  Read NUM1 from input LA 0,NUM1  Load NUM1 into
> register** Read the second number from input* GETNUM2,NUMIN
>  Read NUM2 from input A  NUM1,NUM2   Add NUM1 and NUM2
>ST NUM1,RESULT Store the result in RESULT** Print the result*
>  PUTRESULT,NUMOUT   Print the result** Terminate the program*
>SR 15,15   Set return code to 0 BR 14
>Return to caller** Define input and output areas*NUMINDCF'0'
>   Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT   DCF'0'   Output buffer
> for resultZERO DCF'0'   Constant zero END   MAIN
>  End of program
> >Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes.
> In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your
> specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language
> programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation
> for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and
> correctness.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Bill Johnson]

The formatting was perfect. The cut & paste wasn’t. Chatgpt has been available 
for what? 6 months? A year maybe? In 5 years, it’ll be 1000 times better.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 1:04 PM, Matt Hogstrom  wrote:

Apart from the poor formatting I’ll share that ChatGPT does a poor job at
assembler.  Largely, I think, due to the lack of samples.  If you look for
Python, Node or other code examples it does an amazing job (although not
perfect).

I wouldn’t “blame” ChatGPT inasmuch as I’d understand that AI is nothing
more at this point than a capability based on a large knowledge base of
which Assembler is not much of one.

What is more disturbing is the level of confidence portrayed when providing
an answer which is clearly wrong.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 09:57 Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>
> >William:
> >
> >Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the
> mainframe.
> >
> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>
> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>
> >Chatgpt:
> >
> >Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program
> written in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input
> and prints their sum:
> >        PRINT NOGEN        TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define
> storage for input numbers and result*NUM1    DS    F            First
> input numberNUM2    DS    F            Second input numberRESULT  DS
>  F            Result of addition** Main program*MAIN    C      0
>  NUM1  Check if NUM1 is zero        BE    ZERO            Branch to ZERO
> if true** Read the first number from input*        GET    NUM1,NUMIN
>  Read NUM1 from input        LA    0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into
> register** Read the second number from input*        GET    NUM2,NUMIN
>  Read NUM2 from input        A      NUM1,NUM2      Add NUM1 and NUM2
>    ST    NUM1,RESULT    Store the result in RESULT** Print the result*
>      PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT  Print the result** Terminate the program*
>    SR    15,15          Set return code to 0        BR    14
>    Return to caller** Define input and output areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'
>      Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT  DC    F'0'          Output buffer
> for resultZERO    DC    F'0'          Constant zero        END  MAIN
>          End of program
> >Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes.
> In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your
> specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language
> programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation
> for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and
> correctness.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Tom Brennan]

I can't be sure I formatted it properly, but after looking over the 
code, I have nothing to say but WTF? :)


 PRINT NOGEN
 TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'
** Define storage for input numbers and result
*
NUM1 DSF First input number
NUM2 DSF Second input number
RESULT   DSF Result of addition
** Main program
*
MAIN C  0NUM1   Check if NUM1 is zero
 BE ZEROBranch to ZERO if true
** Read the first number from input
*
 GETNUM1,NUMIN  Read NUM1 from input
 LA 0,NUM1  Load NUM1 into register
** Read the second number from input
*
 GETNUM2,NUMIN  Read NUM2 from input
 A  NUM1,NUM2   Add NUM1 and NUM2
 ST NUM1,RESULT Store the result in RESULT
** Print the result
*
 PUTRESULT,NUMOUT   Print the result
** Terminate the program
*
 SR 15,15   Set return code to 0
 BR 14  Return to caller
** Define input and output areas
*
NUMINDCF'0'   Input buffer for numbers
NUMOUT   DCF'0'   Output buffer for result
ZERO DCF'0'   Constant zero
 END   MAINEnd of program

On 9/4/2023 9:57 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:


William:

Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the mainframe.


Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!

In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.


Chatgpt:

Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program written in 
High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input and prints their 
sum:
          PRINT NOGEN         TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define storage 
for input numbers and result*NUM1     DS    F             First input 
numberNUM2     DS    F             Second input numberRESULT   DS    F          
   Result of addition** Main program*MAIN     C      0      NUM1   Check if 
NUM1 is zero         BE     ZERO            Branch to ZERO if true** Read the 
first number from input*         GET    NUM1,NUMIN      Read NUM1 from input    
     LA     0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into register** Read the second number 
from input*         GET    NUM2,NUMIN      Read NUM2 from input         A      
NUM1,NUM2       Add NUM1 and NUM2         ST     NUM1,RESULT     Store the 
result in RESULT** Print the result*         PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT   Print the 
result** Terminate the program*         SR     15,15           Set return code 
to 0         BR     14              Return to caller** Define input and output 
areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'           Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT   DC    F'0' 
          Output buffer for resultZERO     DC    F'0'           Constant zero   
      END   MAIN            End of program
Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes. In a 
real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your specific 
mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language programming can be 
quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation for your specific 
mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and correctness.




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Seymour J Metz]

I've been hearing five years for decades; I'm confident that it will happen, 
but have no trust for promises about timing.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 1:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

The formatting was perfect. The cut & paste wasn’t. Chatgpt has been available 
for what? 6 months? A year maybe? In 5 years, it’ll be 1000 times better.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 1:04 PM, Matt Hogstrom  wrote:

Apart from the poor formatting I’ll share that ChatGPT does a poor job at
assembler.  Largely, I think, due to the lack of samples.  If you look for
Python, Node or other code examples it does an amazing job (although not
perfect).

I wouldn’t “blame” ChatGPT inasmuch as I’d understand that AI is nothing
more at this point than a capability based on a large knowledge base of
which Assembler is not much of one.

What is more disturbing is the level of confidence portrayed when providing
an answer which is clearly wrong.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 09:57 Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>
> >William:
> >
> >Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the
> mainframe.
> >
> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>
> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>
> >Chatgpt:
> >
> >Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program
> written in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input
> and prints their sum:
> >    PRINT NOGENTITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define
> storage for input numbers and result*NUM1DSFFirst
> input numberNUM2DSFSecond input numberRESULT  DS
>  FResult of addition** Main program*MAINC  0
>  NUM1  Check if NUM1 is zeroBEZEROBranch to ZERO
> if true** Read the first number from input*GETNUM1,NUMIN
>  Read NUM1 from inputLA0,NUM1  Load NUM1 into
> register** Read the second number from input*GETNUM2,NUMIN
>  Read NUM2 from inputA  NUM1,NUM2  Add NUM1 and NUM2
>    STNUM1,RESULTStore the result in RESULT** Print the result*
>  PUTRESULT,NUMOUT  Print the result** Terminate the program*
>    SR15,15  Set return code to 0BR14
>    Return to caller** Define input and output areas*NUMINDCF'0'
>  Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT  DCF'0'  Output buffer
> for resultZERODCF'0'  Constant zeroEND  MAIN
>  End of program
> >Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes.
> In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your
> specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language
> programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation
> for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and
> correctness.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Bill Johnson]

I’ve been hearing the mainframe is going to be gone soon for 30+ years. I’ve 
not been hearing about AI for very long. Like I said these AI chatbots haven’t 
been around long. And the subsequent massive increases over the last 6 months 
or so from the big players. META, GOOGLE, others.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 1:52 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

I've been hearing five years for decades; I'm confident that it will happen, 
but have no trust for promises about timing.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 1:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

The formatting was perfect. The cut & paste wasn’t. Chatgpt has been available 
for what? 6 months? A year maybe? In 5 years, it’ll be 1000 times better.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 1:04 PM, Matt Hogstrom  wrote:

Apart from the poor formatting I’ll share that ChatGPT does a poor job at
assembler.  Largely, I think, due to the lack of samples.  If you look for
Python, Node or other code examples it does an amazing job (although not
perfect).

I wouldn’t “blame” ChatGPT inasmuch as I’d understand that AI is nothing
more at this point than a capability based on a large knowledge base of
which Assembler is not much of one.

What is more disturbing is the level of confidence portrayed when providing
an answer which is clearly wrong.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 09:57 Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>
> >William:
> >
> >Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the
> mainframe.
> >
> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>
> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>
> >Chatgpt:
> >
> >Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program
> written in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input
> and prints their sum:
> >       PRINT NOGEN        TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define
> storage for input numbers and result*NUM1    DS    F            First
> input numberNUM2    DS    F            Second input numberRESULT  DS
>  F            Result of addition** Main program*MAIN    C      0
>  NUM1  Check if NUM1 is zero        BE    ZERO            Branch to ZERO
> if true** Read the first number from input*        GET    NUM1,NUMIN
>  Read NUM1 from input        LA    0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into
> register** Read the second number from input*        GET    NUM2,NUMIN
>  Read NUM2 from input        A      NUM1,NUM2      Add NUM1 and NUM2
>   ST    NUM1,RESULT    Store the result in RESULT** Print the result*
>     PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT  Print the result** Terminate the program*
>   SR    15,15          Set return code to 0        BR    14
>   Return to caller** Define input and output areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'
>     Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT  DC    F'0'          Output buffer
> for resultZERO    DC    F'0'          Constant zero        END  MAIN
>         End of program
> >Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes.
> In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your
> specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language
> programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation
> for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and
> correctness.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 10:42:51 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:

>I can't be sure I formatted it properly, ...
>
What did you do to fix it?  (List the steps, or did you just retype t?)

Could ChatGPT be instructed to use line breaks and eschew NBSP?

>but after looking over the 
>code, I have nothing to say but WTF? :)
>
>  PRINT NOGEN
>  TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'
>** Define storage for input numbers and result
>*
Reminds me of a certain physicist's first FORTRAN program.

ChatGPT needs to peruse a QSAM tutorial.
Could it produce a reentrant version?
Does it remember in case you ask for a refinement?

>NUM1 DSF First input number
>NUM2 DSF Second input number
>RESULT   DSF Result of addition
>** Main program
>*
>MAIN C  0NUM1   Check if NUM1 is zero
>  BE ZEROBranch to ZERO if true
>** Read the first number from input
>*
>  GETNUM1,NUMIN  Read NUM1 from input
>  LA 0,NUM1  Load NUM1 into register
>** Read the second number from input
>*
>  GETNUM2,NUMIN  Read NUM2 from input
>  A  NUM1,NUM2   Add NUM1 and NUM2
>  ST NUM1,RESULT Store the result in RESULT
>** Print the result
>*
>  PUTRESULT,NUMOUT   Print the result
>** Terminate the program
>*
>  SR 15,15   Set return code to 0
>  BR 14  Return to caller
>** Define input and output areas
>*
>NUMINDCF'0'   Input buffer for numbers
>NUMOUT   DCF'0'   Output buffer for result
>ZERO DCF'0'   Constant zero
>  END   MAINEnd of program
>
>On 9/4/2023 9:57 AM, Paul Gilmartinrwrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> 
>>> William:
>>>
>>> Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the mainframe.
>>>
>> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>> 
>> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>> 
>>> Chatgpt:
>>>
>>> Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program written 
>>> in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input and 
>>> prints their sum:
>>>           PRINT NOGEN         TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define 
>>> storage for input numbers and result*NUM1     DS    F             First 
>>> input numberNUM2     DS    F             Second input numberRESULT   DS    
>>> F             Result of addition** Main program*MAIN     C      0      NUM1 
>>>   Check if NUM1 is zero         BE     ZERO            Branch to ZERO if 
>>> true** Read the first number from input*         GET    NUM1,NUMIN      
>>> Read NUM1 from input         LA     0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into 
>>> register** Read the second number from input*         GET    NUM2,NUMIN     
>>>  Read NUM2 from input         A      NUM1,NUM2       Add NUM1 and NUM2      
>>>    ST     NUM1,RESULT     Store the result in RESULT** Print the result*    
>>>      PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT   Print the result** Terminate the program*       
>>>   SR     15,15           Set return code to 0         BR     14             
>>>  Return to caller** Define input and output areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'       
>>>     Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT   DC    F'0'           Output buffer for 
>>> resultZERO     DC    F'0'           Constant zero         END   MAIN        
>>>     End of program
>>> Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes. 
>>> In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your 
>>> specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language 
>>> programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation 
>>> for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and 
>>> correctness.

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Seymour J Metz]

AI started in the 1950s, and the promises started not long after. Mechanical 
translation and controlled fusion are other areas where progress was slower 
than promised.

On the flip side, a lot of things happened a lot faster than expected.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 2:04 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

I’ve been hearing the mainframe is going to be gone soon for 30+ years. I’ve 
not been hearing about AI for very long. Like I said these AI chatbots haven’t 
been around long. And the subsequent massive increases over the last 6 months 
or so from the big players. META, GOOGLE, others.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 1:52 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

I've been hearing five years for decades; I'm confident that it will happen, 
but have no trust for promises about timing.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 1:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

The formatting was perfect. The cut & paste wasn’t. Chatgpt has been available 
for what? 6 months? A year maybe? In 5 years, it’ll be 1000 times better.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 1:04 PM, Matt Hogstrom  wrote:

Apart from the poor formatting I’ll share that ChatGPT does a poor job at
assembler.  Largely, I think, due to the lack of samples.  If you look for
Python, Node or other code examples it does an amazing job (although not
perfect).

I wouldn’t “blame” ChatGPT inasmuch as I’d understand that AI is nothing
more at this point than a capability based on a large knowledge base of
which Assembler is not much of one.

What is more disturbing is the level of confidence portrayed when providing
an answer which is clearly wrong.

On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 09:57 Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>
> >William:
> >
> >Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the
> mainframe.
> >
> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>
> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>
> >Chatgpt:
> >
> >Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program
> written in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input
> and prints their sum:
> >   PRINT NOGENTITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define
> storage for input numbers and result*NUM1DSFFirst
> input numberNUM2DSFSecond input numberRESULT  DS
>  FResult of addition** Main program*MAINC  0
>  NUM1  Check if NUM1 is zeroBEZEROBranch to ZERO
> if true** Read the first number from input*GETNUM1,NUMIN
>  Read NUM1 from inputLA0,NUM1  Load NUM1 into
> register** Read the second number from input*GETNUM2,NUMIN
>  Read NUM2 from inputA  NUM1,NUM2  Add NUM1 and NUM2
>   STNUM1,RESULTStore the result in RESULT** Print the result*
>     PUTRESULT,NUMOUT  Print the result** Terminate the program*
>   SR15,15  Set return code to 0BR14
>   Return to caller** Define input and output areas*NUMINDCF'0'
>     Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT  DCF'0'  Output buffer
> for resultZERODCF'0'  Constant zeroEND  MAIN
>     End of program
> >Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes.
> In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your
> specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language
> programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation
> for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and
> correctness.
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO 

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Bill Johnson]

Like I said the formatting was perfect via chatgbt, the cut/paste was not.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 2:05 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 10:42:51 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:

>I can't be sure I formatted it properly, ...
>
What did you do to fix it?  (List the steps, or did you just retype t?)

Could ChatGPT be instructed to use line breaks and eschew NBSP?

>but after looking over the 
>code, I have nothing to say but WTF? :)
>
>          PRINT NOGEN
>          TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'
>** Define storage for input numbers and result
>*
Reminds me of a certain physicist's first FORTRAN program.

ChatGPT needs to peruse a QSAM tutorial.
Could it produce a reentrant version?
Does it remember in case you ask for a refinement?

>NUM1    DS    F            First input number
>NUM2    DS    F            Second input number
>RESULT  DS    F            Result of addition
>** Main program
>*
>MAIN    C      0        NUM1  Check if NUM1 is zero
>          BE    ZERO            Branch to ZERO if true
>** Read the first number from input
>*
>          GET    NUM1,NUMIN      Read NUM1 from input
>          LA    0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into register
>** Read the second number from input
>*
>          GET    NUM2,NUMIN      Read NUM2 from input
>          A      NUM1,NUM2      Add NUM1 and NUM2
>          ST    NUM1,RESULT    Store the result in RESULT
>** Print the result
>*
>          PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT  Print the result
>** Terminate the program
>*
>          SR    15,15          Set return code to 0
>          BR    14              Return to caller
>** Define input and output areas
>*
>NUMIN    DC    F'0'          Input buffer for numbers
>NUMOUT  DC    F'0'          Output buffer for result
>ZERO    DC    F'0'          Constant zero
>          END  MAIN            End of program
>
>On 9/4/2023 9:57 AM, Paul Gilmartinrwrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> 
>>> William:
>>>
>>> Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the mainframe.
>>>
>> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>> 
>> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>> 
>>> Chatgpt:
>>>
>>> Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program written 
>>> in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input and 
>>> prints their sum:
>>>           PRINT NOGEN         TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define 
>>>storage for input numbers and result*NUM1     DS    F             First 
>>>input numberNUM2     DS    F             Second input numberRESULT   DS    F 
>>>            Result of addition** Main program*MAIN     C      0      NUM1   
>>>Check if NUM1 is zero         BE     ZERO            Branch to ZERO if 
>>>true** Read the first number from input*         GET    NUM1,NUMIN      Read 
>>>NUM1 from input         LA     0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into register** 
>>>Read the second number from input*         GET    NUM2,NUMIN      Read NUM2 
>>>from input         A      NUM1,NUM2       Add NUM1 and NUM2         ST     
>>>NUM1,RESULT     Store the result in RESULT** Print the result*         PUT   
>>> RESULT,NUMOUT   Print the result** Terminate the program*         SR     
>>>15,15           Set return code to 0         BR     14              Return 
>>>to caller** Define input and output areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'           
>>>Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT   DC    F'0'           Output buffer for 
>>>resultZERO     DC    F'0'           Constant zero         END   MAIN         
>>>   End of program
>>> Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes. 
>>> In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your 
>>> specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language 
>>> programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation 
>>> for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and 
>>> correctness.

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:20:24 +, Bill Johnson wrote:

>The formatting was perfect. The cut & paste wasn’t. 
>
Could you direct it to a file instead of the screen, and attach the file?
(Teachers look askance at copies of homework.)

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Seymour J Metz]

I've had situations where pasting to and copying from notepad (not wordpad) 
fixes similar issues.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 2:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:20:24 +, Bill Johnson wrote:

>The formatting was perfect. The cut & paste wasn’t.
>
Could you direct it to a file instead of the screen, and attach the file?
(Teachers look askance at copies of homework.)

--
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Bill Johnson]

Not sure. My experience with chatgpt is minimal. I installed it on the iPhone a 
month or two ago and this is my second attempt to get it to do something. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 2:25 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 17:20:24 +, Bill Johnson wrote:

>The formatting was perfect. The cut & paste wasn’t. 
>
Could you direct it to a file instead of the screen, and attach the file?
(Teachers look askance at copies of homework.)

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 18:28:35 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I've had situations where pasting to and copying from notepad (not wordpad) 
>fixes similar issues.
>
vi  expanded the NBSP.  Is there a fix for the newlines?

Just give ChatGPT D- and a makeup assignment.

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 18:32:29 +, Bill Johnson wrote:

>Not sure. My experience with chatgpt is minimal. I installed it on the iPhone 
>a month or two ago and this is my second attempt to get it to do something. 
>
It's like "Genuine Fractals".  It looks like Assembler code only when viewed 
from afar.

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Seymour J Metz]

I'd have to view the original in hex before I'd even try to guess. 


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 2:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 18:28:35 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I've had situations where pasting to and copying from notepad (not wordpad) 
>fixes similar issues.
>
vi  expanded the NBSP.  Is there a fix for the newlines?

Just give ChatGPT D- and a makeup assignment.

--
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: With regrets, after many years I will no longer be following IBM-MAIN

[willie bunter]

 I think that instead of posting surly replies refrain from posting.  No need 
for unpleasantness.

On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 01:37:00 a.m. EDT, Brian Westerman 
 wrote:  
 
 I think even the ones that abuse the list the most still provide assistance 
from time to time that is very useful.  I completely understand that oftentimes 
they want the person to RTFM, which makes a lot of sense because you also don't 
want the list to become a primary school.  The "new guys" need to learn how to 
use the manuals and I think the "old guys" are trying to, in their own way, 
help them to see that using the manuals and figuring stuff out is a good thing. 
 Where it becomes an issue is when the newbie honestly can't figure it out and 
may have truly tried to find the solution on their own. 

It might be helpful for them, in fact everyone, to disclose what you have 
already tried or read about, that way everyone will see that they are trying 
and won't just kiss them off as using the list instead of manuals (and the 
internet) as opposed to using it in conjunction with attempting to learn.  

Sometimes they may have actually read the solution, but just don't see it as 
such, and by disclosing what they have tried so far will allow people to let 
them know where they missed something.  I think that no one likes to think that 
the guy asking the question is not even really trying to work the problem.  But 
without disclosing the path they are currently on, we have no way to know 
otherwise.

Just a thought.

Brian

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
  

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 18:54:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I'd have to view the original in hex before I'd even try to guess. 
>
Ask ChatGPT to fix it!

What's "the original"?  Here's what my MUA shows as "Raw Source".
no linebreaks; no trailing spaces; lotsa NBSP:

Chatgpt:

Certainly! Here=E2=80=99s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program =
written in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input a=
nd prints their sum:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PRINT NOGEN=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define storage for input numbers an=
d result*NUM1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DS =C2=A0 =C2=A0F =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 First input numberNUM2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DS =C2=A0 =C2=A0F =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Second input numberRESULT =C2=A0 DS =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0F =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Result of addition** =
Main program*MAIN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 C =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0NUM1 =C2=A0 Check if NUM1 is zero=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BE =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ZERO =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Branch to ZERO =
if true** Read the first number from input*=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0GET =C2=A0 =C2=A0NUM1,NUMIN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Read NUM1 from input=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0LA =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0,NUM1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Load NUM1 into register** Read the second number from input*=

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Seymour J Metz]

The original is the exact octets that chaatGPT gave you. QP encoding is not 
the original.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 3:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 18:54:21 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I'd have to view the original in hex before I'd even try to guess.
>
Ask ChatGPT to fix it!

What's "the original"?  Here's what my MUA shows as "Raw Source".
no linebreaks; no trailing spaces; lotsa NBSP:

Chatgpt:

Certainly! Here=E2=80=99s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program =
written in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input a=
nd prints their sum:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PRINT NOGEN=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define storage for input numbers an=
d result*NUM1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DS =C2=A0 =C2=A0F =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 First input numberNUM2 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DS =C2=A0 =C2=A0F =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Second input numberRESULT =C2=A0 DS =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0F =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Result of addition** =
Main program*MAIN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 C =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0NUM1 =C2=A0 Check if NUM1 is zero=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BE =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ZERO =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Branch to ZERO =
if true** Read the first number from input*=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0GET =C2=A0 =C2=A0NUM1,NUMIN =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Read NUM1 from input=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0LA =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0,NUM1 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Load NUM1 into register** Read the second number from input*=

--
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[g...@gabegold.com]

That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
that.

Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs. 
having actual qualifications and experience.

"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just installing 
-- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for decades. It's 
too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs (so many, such 
short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.

Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot like 
sour grapes:

refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
because they cannot have it themselves.

Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
list?

Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re 
>likely an installer of zOS. 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Bill Johnson]

No doubt you don’t have one. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
that.

Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs. 
having actual qualifications and experience.

"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just installing 
-- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for decades. It's 
too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs (so many, such 
short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.

Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot like 
sour grapes:

refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
because they cannot have it themselves.

Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
list?

Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re 
>likely an installer of zOS. 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Bill Johnson]

I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some rather 
large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar Mor, 
Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical Mutual of 
Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college grad. Because you 
downplay what you lack. And try so hard to puff yourself up as well as others 
who couldn’t hack college. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
that.

Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs. 
having actual qualifications and experience.

"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just installing 
-- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for decades. It's 
too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs (so many, such 
short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.

Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot like 
sour grapes:

refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
because they cannot have it themselves.

Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
list?

Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re 
>likely an installer of zOS. 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Key differences between education and training.

[Bill Johnson]

   
   - Training refers to an act of inculcating specific skills in a person. 
Education is all about gaining theoretical knowledge in the classroom or any 
institution.
   - Training is a way to develop specific skills, whereas education is a 
typical system of learning.
   - Training is completely based on practical application, which is just 
opposite in the case of education that involves theoretical orientation.
   - The concept of training is narrow while the concept of education is 
comparatively wider.
   - Training involves hands-on experience regarding the particular job. On the 
other hand, education involves learning in the classroom.
   - The term of education is longer than the duration of training.
   - The training prepares a person for the present job. Conversely, education 
prepares a person for future job and challenges.
   - The purpose of training is to improve the performance and productivity of 
employees. As opposed to education, where the purpose is to develop a sense of 
reasoning and judgement.
   - During training, a person learns, how to do a specific task. Unlike 
Education, which teaches about the general concepts.

Conclusion


Though with the changing environment, the approach towards training and 
education is also getting changed. Normally, it is presumed that every employee 
who is going to take training, has got some formal education. Moreover, it is 
also true that there is no training program which is conducted without 
education.

Education is more important for the employees working on a higher level as 
compared to the low-level workers. Although education is common for all the 
employees, regardless of their grades. So, the firms should consider both the 
elements, at the time of planning their training program because there are 
instances when the employees need to take decisions themselves regarding their 
work, where education is as important as training.




https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-training-and-education.html 







You could train someone to remove an appendix. What happens if the appendix 
burst during removal? Or something else happens outside of the training?




You can train most animals. Some are more trainable than others. Chimps & 
humans share 98.8 of their DNA.




While training people to perform a task can be done, and often it might be a 
perfect fit for the organization doing the training, (EDS for example since 
they had their own utilities) it generally requires more training when things 
change or the employee goes elsewhere.




You also have education bias. Some people who aren’t college educated sometimes 
tend to dislike and dismiss the education of others.




I don’t discount real world experience either. In fact, I ran 2 businesses, one 
of which interacted with the local mafia. (Carabbia’s were a customer of mine 
and me of theirs) It truly opened my eyes to Youngstown’s & the world’s reality.







--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:54:56 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The original is the exact octets that chaatGPT gave you. QP encoding is not 
>the original.
>
If ChatGPT identified the recipient as a MUA and honored RFC 822++'s USASCII
requirement, some encoding was necessary after it had made two erroneous
assumptions:
o linebreaks are irrelevant and dispensable
o NBSP is preferable to multiple blanks

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[g...@gabegold.com]

Not that it matters -- or that I rely on it for credentials/credibility -- but 
I do, B.S. in Applied Mathematics.

Wrong again, you are. About so much.

My point is that many excellent programmers (system and application) don't have 
degrees - and are no less excellent for that omission. And besides you I can't 
think of another working programmer who trumpeted their supposed credentials 
vs. real-world on-the-job accomplishments.

What in the world does having a degree have to do with whether assembler 
language is a valuable/useful skill? Even for low-level grunt work such as 
yours, installing z/OS, how does your degree in Math/CS help? You've wandered 
far afield from the actual topic -- your misunderstanding that the essence of 
system programming isn't installing things.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 20:12:41 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>No doubt you don’t have one. 
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
>wrote:
>
>That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
>that.
>
>Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, 
>vs. having actual qualifications and experience.
>
>"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
>ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
>business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just 
>installing -- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for 
>decades. It's too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs 
>(so many, such short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.
>
>Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot 
>like sour grapes:
>
>refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
>because they cannot have it themselves.
>
>Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
>list?
>
>Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
>statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.
>
>On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:
>
>>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, 
>>you’re likely an installer of zOS. 
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Bill Johnson]

Phoenix online?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:26 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

Not that it matters -- or that I rely on it for credentials/credibility -- but 
I do, B.S. in Applied Mathematics.

Wrong again, you are. About so much.

My point is that many excellent programmers (system and application) don't have 
degrees - and are no less excellent for that omission. And besides you I can't 
think of another working programmer who trumpeted their supposed credentials 
vs. real-world on-the-job accomplishments.

What in the world does having a degree have to do with whether assembler 
language is a valuable/useful skill? Even for low-level grunt work such as 
yours, installing z/OS, how does your degree in Math/CS help? You've wandered 
far afield from the actual topic -- your misunderstanding that the essence of 
system programming isn't installing things.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 20:12:41 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>No doubt you don’t have one. 
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
>wrote:
>
>That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
>that.
>
>Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, 
>vs. having actual qualifications and experience.
>
>"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
>ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
>business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just 
>installing -- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for 
>decades. It's too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs 
>(so many, such short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.
>
>Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot 
>like sour grapes:
>
>refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
>because they cannot have it themselves.
>
>Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
>list?
>
>Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
>statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.
>
>On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:
>
>>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, 
>>you’re likely an installer of zOS. 
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Seymour J Metz]

The Devil is in the details; with proper MIME headers the QP would have been 
decipherable. As it is, ...


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 19:54:56 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>The original is the exact octets that chaatGPT gave you. QP encoding is not 
>the original.
>
If ChatGPT identified the recipient as a MUA and honored RFC 822++'s USASCII
requirement, some encoding was necessary after it had made two erroneous
assumptions:
o linebreaks are irrelevant and dispensable
o NBSP is preferable to multiple blanks

--
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[g...@gabegold.com]

Too funny. Basic research (LinkedIn, etc.) would have revealed my degree. 
Research ability is another important system programming skill you haven't 
exhibited.

You've listed dozens of places you've worked (with apparently consistently 
short tenures) and various products you've touched but haven't said a word 
about anything you've accomplished. Claimed employers and skills and 
credentials are worthless without something to show for them. Listing my 
projects done using assembler language is simply stating facts. Your listing 
your degree and places you've worked is indeed irrelevant puffery.

Now let's return to your nonsensical assertions about assembler language.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 20:18:13 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some 
>rather large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar 
>Mor, Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical 
>Mutual of Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college grad. 
>Because you downplay what you lack. And try so hard to puff yourself up as 
>well as others who couldn’t hack college. 
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
>wrote:
>
>That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
>that.
>
>Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, 
>vs. having actual qualifications and experience.
>
>"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
>ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
>business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just 
>installing -- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for 
>decades. It's too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs 
>(so many, such short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.
>
>Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot 
>like sour grapes:
>
>refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
>because they cannot have it themselves.
>
>Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
>list?
>
>Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
>statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.
>
>On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:
>
>>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, 
>>you’re likely an installer of zOS. 
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Bill Johnson]

I love how many of you downplay others who don’t do what you do. And act like 
it’s inferior. Plus, puff yourselves up simply for programming in Assembler. I 
made a boatload of money in 40+ years performing nearly every task on the 
mainframe. I can also code in Assembler, just never needed to. Assembler is 
still dying, as the Assembler listserv attests. Plus, the fact it’s nearly 
impossible to find a company that offers training classes in it.

Retirement is great. I no longer have to deal with pompous a**holes like you. 
Self promoting narcissistic cult members. Trained, not educated.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:26 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

Not that it matters -- or that I rely on it for credentials/credibility -- but 
I do, B.S. in Applied Mathematics.

Wrong again, you are. About so much.

My point is that many excellent programmers (system and application) don't have 
degrees - and are no less excellent for that omission. And besides you I can't 
think of another working programmer who trumpeted their supposed credentials 
vs. real-world on-the-job accomplishments.

What in the world does having a degree have to do with whether assembler 
language is a valuable/useful skill? Even for low-level grunt work such as 
yours, installing z/OS, how does your degree in Math/CS help? You've wandered 
far afield from the actual topic -- your misunderstanding that the essence of 
system programming isn't installing things.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 20:12:41 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>No doubt you don’t have one. 
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
>wrote:
>
>That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
>that.
>
>Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, 
>vs. having actual qualifications and experience.
>
>"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
>ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
>business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just 
>installing -- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for 
>decades. It's too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs 
>(so many, such short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.
>
>Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot 
>like sour grapes:
>
>refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
>because they cannot have it themselves.
>
>Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
>list?
>
>Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
>statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.
>
>On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:
>
>>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, 
>>you’re likely an installer of zOS. 
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Seymour J Metz]

Nonsense. I have an MA in Mathematics, and I would never accept a degree as a 
proof of competency. Gabe has long since earned his chops, and is certainly 
better known in the industry than you are.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some rather 
large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar Mor, 
Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical Mutual of 
Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college grad. Because you 
downplay what you lack. And try so hard to puff yourself up as well as others 
who couldn’t hack college.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
that.

Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs. 
having actual qualifications and experience.

"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just installing 
-- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for decades. It's 
too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs (so many, such 
short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.

Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot like 
sour grapes:

refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
because they cannot have it themselves.

Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
list?

Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re 
>likely an installer of zOS.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Bill Johnson]

I’m not a narcissist. I don’t need to post my resume there. (Many are 
embellished) Plus, LinkedIn has had numerous hacks.

My resume that I wrote decades ago and just added to with each employer, got me 
offers galore, was 100% factual, and my interview skills got me hired. I was 
never unemployed. And never had a bad review.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:35 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

Too funny. Basic research (LinkedIn, etc.) would have revealed my degree. 
Research ability is another important system programming skill you haven't 
exhibited.

You've listed dozens of places you've worked (with apparently consistently 
short tenures) and various products you've touched but haven't said a word 
about anything you've accomplished. Claimed employers and skills and 
credentials are worthless without something to show for them. Listing my 
projects done using assembler language is simply stating facts. Your listing 
your degree and places you've worked is indeed irrelevant puffery.

Now let's return to your nonsensical assertions about assembler language.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 20:18:13 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some 
>rather large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar 
>Mor, Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical 
>Mutual of Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college grad. 
>Because you downplay what you lack. And try so hard to puff yourself up as 
>well as others who couldn’t hack college. 
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
>wrote:
>
>That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
>that.
>
>Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, 
>vs. having actual qualifications and experience.
>
>"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
>ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
>business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just 
>installing -- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for 
>decades. It's too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs 
>(so many, such short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.
>
>Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot 
>like sour grapes:
>
>refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
>because they cannot have it themselves.
>
>Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
>list?
>
>Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
>statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.
>
>On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:
>
>>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, 
>>you’re likely an installer of zOS. 
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[August Carideo]

Why don’t you guys just email each other directly.


Get Outlook for iOS

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:40:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

I’m not a narcissist. I don’t need to post my resume there. (Many are 
embellished) Plus, LinkedIn has had numerous hacks.

My resume that I wrote decades ago and just added to with each employer, got me 
offers galore, was 100% factual, and my interview skills got me hired. I was 
never unemployed. And never had a bad review.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:35 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

Too funny. Basic research (LinkedIn, etc.) would have revealed my degree. 
Research ability is another important system programming skill you haven't 
exhibited.

You've listed dozens of places you've worked (with apparently consistently 
short tenures) and various products you've touched but haven't said a word 
about anything you've accomplished. Claimed employers and skills and 
credentials are worthless without something to show for them. Listing my 
projects done using assembler language is simply stating facts. Your listing 
your degree and places you've worked is indeed irrelevant puffery.

Now let's return to your nonsensical assertions about assembler language.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 20:18:13 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some 
>rather large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar 
>Mor, Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical 
>Mutual of Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college grad. 
>Because you downplay what you lack. And try so hard to puff yourself up as 
>well as others who couldn’t hack college.
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
>wrote:
>
>That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
>that.
>
>Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, 
>vs. having actual qualifications and experience.
>
>"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
>ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
>business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just 
>installing -- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for 
>decades. It's too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs 
>(so many, such short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.
>
>Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot 
>like sour grapes:
>
>refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
>because they cannot have it themselves.
>
>Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
>list?
>
>Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
>statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.
>
>On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:
>
>>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, 
>>you’re likely an installer of zOS.
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Bill Johnson]

lol better known! That’s the goal of these cult members. Not talented, not 
educated, but better known. That’s why you join LinkedIn too. To be known and 
to network. You were unemployed for a long period of time. Because you had a 
signature line asking for a job. Begging really. Something I’ve never had to do.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:40 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

Nonsense. I have an MA in Mathematics, and I would never accept a degree as a 
proof of competency. Gabe has long since earned his chops, and is certainly 
better known in the industry than you are.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some rather 
large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar Mor, 
Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical Mutual of 
Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college grad. Because you 
downplay what you lack. And try so hard to puff yourself up as well as others 
who couldn’t hack college.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
that.

Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs. 
having actual qualifications and experience.

"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just installing 
-- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for decades. It's 
too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs (so many, such 
short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.

Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot like 
sour grapes:

refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
because they cannot have it themselves.

Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
list?

Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re 
>likely an installer of zOS.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Tom Brennan]

I just moved the cursor to where I thought a line should end and pushed 
Return.


On 9/4/2023 11:04 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 10:42:51 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:


I can't be sure I formatted it properly, ...


What did you do to fix it?  (List the steps, or did you just retype t?)

Could ChatGPT be instructed to use line breaks and eschew NBSP?


but after looking over the
code, I have nothing to say but WTF? :)

  PRINT NOGEN
  TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'
** Define storage for input numbers and result
*

Reminds me of a certain physicist's first FORTRAN program.

ChatGPT needs to peruse a QSAM tutorial.
Could it produce a reentrant version?
Does it remember in case you ask for a refinement?


NUM1 DSF First input number
NUM2 DSF Second input number
RESULT   DSF Result of addition
** Main program
*
MAIN C  0NUM1   Check if NUM1 is zero
  BE ZEROBranch to ZERO if true
** Read the first number from input
*
  GETNUM1,NUMIN  Read NUM1 from input
  LA 0,NUM1  Load NUM1 into register
** Read the second number from input
*
  GETNUM2,NUMIN  Read NUM2 from input
  A  NUM1,NUM2   Add NUM1 and NUM2
  ST NUM1,RESULT Store the result in RESULT
** Print the result
*
  PUTRESULT,NUMOUT   Print the result
** Terminate the program
*
  SR 15,15   Set return code to 0
  BR 14  Return to caller
** Define input and output areas
*
NUMINDCF'0'   Input buffer for numbers
NUMOUT   DCF'0'   Output buffer for result
ZERO DCF'0'   Constant zero
  END   MAINEnd of program

On 9/4/2023 9:57 AM, Paul Gilmartinrwrote:

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:


William:

Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the mainframe.


Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!

In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.


Chatgpt:

Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program written in 
High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input and prints their 
sum:
           PRINT NOGEN         TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define storage 
for input numbers and result*NUM1     DS    F             First input 
numberNUM2     DS    F             Second input numberRESULT   DS    F          
   Result of addition** Main program*MAIN     C      0      NUM1   Check if 
NUM1 is zero         BE     ZERO            Branch to ZERO if true** Read the 
first number from input*         GET    NUM1,NUMIN      Read NUM1 from input    
     LA     0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into register** Read the second number 
from input*         GET    NUM2,NUMIN      Read NUM2 from input         A      
NUM1,NUM2       Add NUM1 and NUM2         ST     NUM1,RESULT     Store the 
result in RESULT** Print the result*         PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT   Print the 
result** Terminate the program*         SR     15,15           Set return code 
to 0         BR     14              Return to caller** Define input and output 
areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'           Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT   DC    F'0' 
          Output buffer for resultZERO     DC    F'0'           Constant zero   
      END   MAIN            End of program
Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes. In a 
real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your specific 
mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language programming can be 
quite complex, so make sure to consult the documentation for your specific 
mainframe and assembler to ensure compatibility and correctness.




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Seymour J Metz]

He is better known for his contributions to SHARE.. What have you contributed?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

lol better known! That’s the goal of these cult members. Not talented, not 
educated, but better known. That’s why you join LinkedIn too. To be known and 
to network. You were unemployed for a long period of time. Because you had a 
signature line asking for a job. Begging really. Something I’ve never had to do.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:40 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

Nonsense. I have an MA in Mathematics, and I would never accept a degree as a 
proof of competency. Gabe has long since earned his chops, and is certainly 
better known in the industry than you are.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some rather 
large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar Mor, 
Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical Mutual of 
Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college grad. Because you 
downplay what you lack. And try so hard to puff yourself up as well as others 
who couldn’t hack college.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
that.

Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs. 
having actual qualifications and experience.

"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just installing 
-- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for decades. It's 
too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs (so many, such 
short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.

Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot like 
sour grapes:

refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
because they cannot have it themselves.

Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
list?

Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re 
>likely an installer of zOS.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[g...@gabegold.com]

Yeah, sigh. It's sometimes hard to let pass nonsense such as what he spouted 
about assembler language. But of course when his assertions are demolished, he 
resorts to distractions such as whether degrees matter and who's had the most 
short-term employments. Anyone here with as misguided an opinion about what 
constitutes system programming isn't going to be convinced by reality. So, done.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 20:43:05 +, August Carideo  
wrote:

>Why don�t you guys just email each other directly.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: RACF for using SDSF

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Joseph,

All you need is READ access to one of the following profiles:
GROUP.ISFOPER.*
GROUP.ISFSPROG.*
GROUP.ISFUSER.*

All profiles in CLASS(SDSF).

Which one to use? ISFSPROG is the best, ISFUSER is the worst.
Just try one after another and you will see the differences.

Note: in the old days before z/OS 2.5 it was possible to use ISFPRMxx 
customization *and* some TSOAUTH profiles (I can't remember which ones). 
Same effect.


HTH

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 04.09.2023 o 16:18, Joseph Reichman pisze:

Hi

  


I am getting the following message on my ADCD system

  


ISF024I USER ADCDANOT AUTHORIZED TO SDSF, NO GROUP ASSIGNMENT

  


I tried  ALU ADCDA GROUP(SYS1) this is the group that my other tso Is which
has access to SDSF

  


Regardless after I do the command and do a LU ADCDA the group still shows up
as TEST

  


When doing ALU ADCDA DFLTGRP(SYS1) racf says its not connected


thanks



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

[Bill Johnson]

I’ve been to at least 10 Shares over the years. Also CA Worlds, OPM 
conferences, & IBM systems tech universitys. Lots of idiotic presentations at 
Share. Lots of good ones as well. Like Quackenbush’s SMPE, wait SMP/E, Roger 
Miller DB2 sessions, and some others. Remember the Rod Stewart freebie about 10 
years ago in Vegas? What crappy software was Gabe trying to sell there?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:49 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

He is better known for his contributions to SHARE.. What have you contributed?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

lol better known! That’s the goal of these cult members. Not talented, not 
educated, but better known. That’s why you join LinkedIn too. To be known and 
to network. You were unemployed for a long period of time. Because you had a 
signature line asking for a job. Begging really. Something I’ve never had to do.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:40 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

Nonsense. I have an MA in Mathematics, and I would never accept a degree as a 
proof of competency. Gabe has long since earned his chops, and is certainly 
better known in the industry than you are.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bill Johnson <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is the IBM Assembler List still alive

I’ve listed my skills and jobs here. Worked for numerous companies, some rather 
large, (GM, Revco, Parker Hannifin, Kaiser Permanente, Kent State, Phar Mor, 
Mellon Bank, First Energy, American Electric Power, Alltel, Medical Mutual of 
Ohio, Microfocus, and others. I can tell you’re not a college grad. Because you 
downplay what you lack. And try so hard to puff yourself up as well as others 
who couldn’t hack college.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 4:11 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

That's correctly spelled z/OS. Even beginning system programmers should know 
that.

Degrees are often most relevant to people who rely on them for credibility, vs. 
having actual qualifications and experience.

"Unless you work for IBM, you’re likely an installer of zOS" shows profound 
ignorance of what system programming actually entails: making effective 
business-related use of what IBM and other vendors provide. Not just installing 
-- that's a poor excuse for what system programming has been for decades. It's 
too bad that in your decades of IT work at those dozens of jobs (so many, such 
short tenures?) you never encountered the real thing.

Your attitude towards a skill you don't posses is fascinating. Seems a lot like 
sour grapes:

refers to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something 
because they cannot have it themselves.

Have you felt inadequate seeing assembler code you couldn't understand on the 
list?

Perhaps cheer yourself up by reading some comfortable JCL, or utility control 
statements. And set some nice variables to feel better.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 00:06:16 +, Bill Johnson  wrote:

>Degrees are never relevant to the non-degreed. Unless you work for IBM, you’re 
>likely an installer of zOS.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: RACF for using SDSF

[Rahim Azizarab]

Did you do SETROPTS RACLIST(ADCDA) REFRESH

without the REFRESH your changes will not take effect.


regards;

Rahim 



   

 

On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 09:57:20 AM CDT, Joseph Reichman 
 wrote:  
 
 You got it did the connect and I am good 

thanks

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Itschak Mugzach
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 10:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: RACF for using SDSF

You do not need to have sys1 as a default group. Che k if you are authorised to 
sdsf isf.connect profile

ITschak

בתאריך יום ב׳, 4 בספט׳ 2023 ב-17:34 מאת Rob Scott :

> Joseph,
>
> I think you need to use the "CONNECT" command instead of ALTUSER :
>
> CONNECT userid GROUP(group_name)
>
> Afterwards a "LISTUSER userid" command should list all groups that the 
> user is connected to.
>
> As most sites run with "list of groups checking", there is normally no 
> need to change the default group after a CONNECT.
>
> Rob Scott
> Rocket Software
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
> Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 3:19 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: RACF for using SDSF
>
> EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> I am getting the following message on my ADCD system
>
>
>
> ISF024I USER ADCDA    NOT AUTHORIZED TO SDSF, NO GROUP ASSIGNMENT
>
>
>
> I tried  ALU ADCDA GROUP(SYS1) this is the group that my other tso Is 
> which has access to SDSF
>
>
>
> Regardless after I do the command and do a LU ADCDA the group still 
> shows up as TEST
>
>
>
> When doing ALU ADCDA DFLTGRP(SYS1) racf says its not connected
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> 
> Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA
> 02451 ■ Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323 Contact Customer 
> Support:
> https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
> Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription 
> Preferences - 
> http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
> Privacy Policy -
> http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy
> 
>
> This communication and any attachments may contain confidential 
> information of Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure 
> or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
> please notify Rocket Software immediately and destroy all copies of 
> this communication. Thank you.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
  

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

LOCASCB AR Mode

[Joseph Reichman]

Hi 

 

Can someone explain to me why the last instruction in the LOCASCB MACRO is
SAC X'200'

 

Thanks 


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: LOCASCB AR Mode

[Attila Fogarasi]

Sets AR mode.  You specified STOKEN and this is how it can be accessed :)

On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 11:09 AM Joseph Reichman 
wrote:

> Hi
>
>
>
> Can someone explain to me why the last instruction in the LOCASCB MACRO is
> SAC X'200'
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: LOCASCB AR Mode

[Joseph Reichman]

Didn’t specify stoken the code caused me to get a 0F8 as I was running under 
test and there must been sone value in the access registers 


> On Sep 4, 2023, at 10:36 PM, Attila Fogarasi  wrote:
> 
> Sets AR mode.  You specified STOKEN and this is how it can be accessed :)
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 11:09 AM Joseph Reichman 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Can someone explain to me why the last instruction in the LOCASCB MACRO is
>> SAC X'200'
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[August Carideo]

https://apple.news/AixoP4CtmQXe5nrEq1l8bCw
Interesting article about AI
Idk how many open link

Get Outlook for iOS

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:48:22 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

I just moved the cursor to where I thought a line should end and pushed
Return.

On 9/4/2023 11:04 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 10:42:51 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:
>
>> I can't be sure I formatted it properly, ...
>>
> What did you do to fix it?  (List the steps, or did you just retype t?)
>
> Could ChatGPT be instructed to use line breaks and eschew NBSP?
>
>> but after looking over the
>> code, I have nothing to say but WTF? :)
>>
>>   PRINT NOGEN
>>   TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'
>> ** Define storage for input numbers and result
>> *
> Reminds me of a certain physicist's first FORTRAN program.
>
> ChatGPT needs to peruse a QSAM tutorial.
> Could it produce a reentrant version?
> Does it remember in case you ask for a refinement?
>
>> NUM1 DSF First input number
>> NUM2 DSF Second input number
>> RESULT   DSF Result of addition
>> ** Main program
>> *
>> MAIN C  0NUM1   Check if NUM1 is zero
>>   BE ZEROBranch to ZERO if true
>> ** Read the first number from input
>> *
>>   GETNUM1,NUMIN  Read NUM1 from input
>>   LA 0,NUM1  Load NUM1 into register
>> ** Read the second number from input
>> *
>>   GETNUM2,NUMIN  Read NUM2 from input
>>   A  NUM1,NUM2   Add NUM1 and NUM2
>>   ST NUM1,RESULT Store the result in RESULT
>> ** Print the result
>> *
>>   PUTRESULT,NUMOUT   Print the result
>> ** Terminate the program
>> *
>>   SR 15,15   Set return code to 0
>>   BR 14  Return to caller
>> ** Define input and output areas
>> *
>> NUMINDCF'0'   Input buffer for numbers
>> NUMOUT   DCF'0'   Output buffer for result
>> ZERO DCF'0'   Constant zero
>>   END   MAINEnd of program
>>
>> On 9/4/2023 9:57 AM, Paul Gilmartinrwrote:
>>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>>
 William:

 Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the mainframe.

>>> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>>>
>>> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>>>
 Chatgpt:

 Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program written 
 in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input and 
 prints their sum:
PRINT NOGEN TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define 
 storage for input numbers and result*NUM1 DSF First 
 input numberNUM2 DSF Second input numberRESULT   DS
 F Result of addition** Main program*MAIN C  0  
 NUM1   Check if NUM1 is zero BE ZEROBranch to ZERO 
 if true** Read the first number from input* GETNUM1,NUMIN  
 Read NUM1 from input LA 0,NUM1  Load NUM1 into 
 register** Read the second number from input* GETNUM2,NUMIN
   Read NUM2 from input A  NUM1,NUM2   Add NUM1 and NUM2
  ST NUM1,RESULT Store the result in RESULT** Print the result* 
 PUTRESULT,NUMOUT   Print the result** Terminate the program*   
   SR 15,15   Set return code to 0 BR 14
   Return to caller** Define input and output areas*NUMINDCF'0' 
   Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT   DCF'0'   Output 
 buffer for resultZERO DCF'0'   Constant zero END   
 MAINEnd of program
 Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes. 
 In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your 
 specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language 
 programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the 
 documentation for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure 
 compatibility and correctness.
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: LOCASCB AR Mode

[Ed Jaffe]

On 9/4/2023 6:09 PM, Joseph Reichman wrote:

Can someone explain to me why the last instruction in the LOCASCB MACRO is
SAC X'200'


When all else fails, just look at the code. It's a self-service activity!

Here is how the LOCASCB macro is coded:

| AIF   ('&SYSASCE' EQ 'P').NOAR1   @L2A
| SAC   0 @L2A
|.NOAR1   ANOP @L2A
| BALR  14,15   .ENTER THE LOCASCB ROUTINE
| AIF   ('&SYSASCE' EQ 'P').NOAR2   @L2A
| SAC   X'200' @L2A
|.NOAR2   ANOP @L2A

You can plainly see that if your program is running with SYSSTATE 
ASCENV=P then no SAC instructions are generated. Otherwise, LOCASCB 
issues SAC 0 before the BALR and SAC 512 upon return.



--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into
which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the
sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

[Bill Johnson]

Interesting 




Automation and technology replacing jobs has long been a conversation in 
Nevada's most populated city. Studies show that between 38% to 65% of jobs 
there could be automated by 2035.




I’m betting the high end.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, September 4, 2023, 11:23 PM, August Carideo 
 wrote:

https://apple.news/AixoP4CtmQXe5nrEq1l8bCw
Interesting article about AI
Idk how many open link

Get Outlook for iOS

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2023 4:48:22 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Simple request from chatGPT to write assembler program.

I just moved the cursor to where I thought a line should end and pushed
Return.

On 9/4/2023 11:04 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 10:42:51 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:
>
>> I can't be sure I formatted it properly, ...
>>
> What did you do to fix it?  (List the steps, or did you just retype t?)
>
> Could ChatGPT be instructed to use line breaks and eschew NBSP?
>
>> but after looking over the
>> code, I have nothing to say but WTF? :)
>>
>>          PRINT NOGEN
>>          TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'
>> ** Define storage for input numbers and result
>> *
> Reminds me of a certain physicist's first FORTRAN program.
>
> ChatGPT needs to peruse a QSAM tutorial.
> Could it produce a reentrant version?
> Does it remember in case you ask for a refinement?
>
>> NUM1    DS    F            First input number
>> NUM2    DS    F            Second input number
>> RESULT  DS    F            Result of addition
>> ** Main program
>> *
>> MAIN    C      0        NUM1  Check if NUM1 is zero
>>          BE    ZERO            Branch to ZERO if true
>> ** Read the first number from input
>> *
>>          GET    NUM1,NUMIN      Read NUM1 from input
>>          LA    0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into register
>> ** Read the second number from input
>> *
>>          GET    NUM2,NUMIN      Read NUM2 from input
>>          A      NUM1,NUM2      Add NUM1 and NUM2
>>          ST    NUM1,RESULT    Store the result in RESULT
>> ** Print the result
>> *
>>          PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT  Print the result
>> ** Terminate the program
>> *
>>          SR    15,15          Set return code to 0
>>          BR    14              Return to caller
>> ** Define input and output areas
>> *
>> NUMIN    DC    F'0'          Input buffer for numbers
>> NUMOUT  DC    F'0'          Output buffer for result
>> ZERO    DC    F'0'          Constant zero
>>          END  MAIN            End of program
>>
>> On 9/4/2023 9:57 AM, Paul Gilmartinrwrote:
>>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 16:36:14 +, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>>
 William:

 Write me an assembler program using high-level assembler for the mainframe.

>>> Fix your damn mailer, or throw it away and get one that works!
>>>
>>> In particular, do not use NBSP to format code samples.
>>>
 Chatgpt:

 Certainly! Here’s a simple example of a mainframe assembly program written 
 in High-Level Assembler (HLASM) that reads two numbers from input and 
 prints their sum:
            PRINT NOGEN        TITLE 'Simple Addition Program'** Define 
storage for input numbers and result*NUM1    DS    F            First input 
numberNUM2    DS    F            Second input numberRESULT  DS    F         
   Result of addition** Main program*MAIN    C      0      NUM1  Check if 
NUM1 is zero        BE    ZERO            Branch to ZERO if true** Read the 
first number from input*        GET    NUM1,NUMIN      Read NUM1 from input 
       LA    0,NUM1          Load NUM1 into register** Read the second 
number from input*        GET    NUM2,NUMIN      Read NUM2 from input       
 A      NUM1,NUM2      Add NUM1 and NUM2        ST    NUM1,RESULT    Store 
the result in RESULT** Print the result*        PUT    RESULT,NUMOUT  Print 
the result** Terminate the program*        SR    15,15          Set return 
code to 0        BR    14              Return to caller** Define input and 
output areas*NUMIN    DC    F'0'          Input buffer for numbersNUMOUT  
DC    F'0'          Output buffer for resultZERO    DC    F'0'          
Constant zero        END  MAIN            End of program
 Please note that this is a simplified example for demonstration purposes. 
 In a real-world scenario, you would need to adapt this code to your 
 specific mainframe environment and requirements. Assembly language 
 programming can be quite complex, so make sure to consult the 
 documentation for your specific mainframe and assembler to ensure 
 compatibility and correctness.
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

-

Re: LOCASCB AR Mode

[Ed Jaffe]

On 9/4/2023 8:33 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote:

Here is how the LOCASCB macro is coded:

| AIF   ('&SYSASCE' EQ 'P').NOAR1   @L2A
| SAC   0 @L2A
|.NOAR1   ANOP @L2A
| BALR  14,15   .ENTER THE LOCASCB ROUTINE
| AIF   ('&SYSASCE' EQ 'P').NOAR2   @L2A
| SAC   X'200' @L2A
|.NOAR2   ANOP @L2A


I have no idea why the blanks preceding the @L2A source tags got 
compressed out of this excerpt, but just have a look at the LOCASCB 
macro in SYS1.MACLIB and all will be clear...



--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into
which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the
sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: LOCASCB AR Mode

[Joseph Reichman]

I don’t know if used sysstate macro but let me check i would assume the default 
value is primary 

> On Sep 4, 2023, at 11:33 PM, Ed Jaffe  wrote:
> 
> On 9/4/2023 6:09 PM, Joseph Reichman wrote:
>> Can someone explain to me why the last instruction in the LOCASCB MACRO is
>> SAC X'200'
> 
> When all else fails, just look at the code. It's a self-service activity!
> 
> Here is how the LOCASCB macro is coded:
> 
> | AIF   ('&SYSASCE' EQ 'P').NOAR1   @L2A
> | SAC   0 @L2A
> |.NOAR1   ANOP @L2A
> | BALR  14,15   .ENTER THE LOCASCB ROUTINE
> | AIF   ('&SYSASCE' EQ 'P').NOAR2   @L2A
> | SAC   X'200' @L2A
> |.NOAR2   ANOP @L2A
> 
> You can plainly see that if your program is running with SYSSTATE ASCENV=P 
> then no SAC instructions are generated. Otherwise, LOCASCB issues SAC 0 
> before the BALR and SAC 512 upon return.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
> 
> 
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
> message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
> email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
> free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into
> which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
> to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the
> sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN