Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
Perhaps if you grease lightning it turns green. :-) TGIM. :-) Martin Packer WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://anchor.fm/marna-walle Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Harminc To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 01/03/2021 04:15 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 at 10:56, Jim Elliott wrote: > > I was working in the IBM Toronto Lab prior to the 3279 announcement and was a tester for the product (developed at IBM Hursley). Somewhere I have a photo of myself sitting at my 3279 when I got an award. I still have a copy of a pre-announce version of a paper on developing colour applications (the doc is printed in colour, unusual for the time). Remember the lightning bolts as the early 3279 models displayed graphics? PS lightning. But IIRC green, which isnt'exactly usual for ordinary lightning. Didn't Mike Cowlishaw do some work on (or with) GDDM? I seem to remember that he mentioned the PS lightning in a doc. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 at 10:56, Jim Elliott wrote: > > I was working in the IBM Toronto Lab prior to the 3279 announcement and was a > tester for the product (developed at IBM Hursley). Somewhere I have a photo > of myself sitting at my 3279 when I got an award. I still have a copy of a > pre-announce version of a paper on developing colour applications (the doc is > printed in colour, unusual for the time). Remember the lightning bolts as the > early 3279 models displayed graphics? PS lightning. But IIRC green, which isnt'exactly usual for ordinary lightning. Didn't Mike Cowlishaw do some work on (or with) GDDM? I seem to remember that he mentioned the PS lightning in a doc. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
Gentlemen, Thank you all for the answers. Some background of the question: Sometimes I have to do with IT folks hostile to mainframe. Isn't it usual? Maybe, but it's boring and sometimes annoying. Especially when you have to explain mainframe "black screen" is colorful and it was colorful long before Windows get colorful. Now I have precise answer for that. And there is a source in wiki. ;-) Stupid? I had to explain there are relational database on z/OS. And prove it. There are a lot of stupid and false myths. One of myths I had to explain was an article saying z/OS APF can be updated by anyone who wants to put scripts there. (yes, scripts). Nevermind, thank you. -- Radoslaw Skorupka (looking for new job) Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
Green snow storms. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://anchor.fm/marna-walle Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Jim Elliott To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 26/02/2021 15:56 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List I was working in the IBM Toronto Lab prior to the 3279 announcement and was a tester for the product (developed at IBM Hursley). Somewhere I have a photo of myself sitting at my 3279 when I got an award. I still have a copy of a pre-announce version of a paper on developing colour applications (the doc is printed in colour, unusual for the time). Remember the lightning bolts as the early 3279 models displayed graphics? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
I was working in the IBM Toronto Lab prior to the 3279 announcement and was a tester for the product (developed at IBM Hursley). Somewhere I have a photo of myself sitting at my 3279 when I got an award. I still have a copy of a pre-announce version of a paper on developing colour applications (the doc is printed in colour, unusual for the time). Remember the lightning bolts as the early 3279 models displayed graphics? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
I remember this activity . . . On Thursday, February 25, 2021, 08:28:06 PM EST, g...@gabegold.com wrote: In 1971, Mitre (DC-area non-profit think tank for government -- had a 2250 connected to OS/360, which included native device support for it. When we installed VM circa 1972, I got to make it work under CMS (component of VM). VERY fortunately someone at University of Grenoble (France) had written a lot of truly arcane and magnificent assembler code getting it to run under CMS part of CP/67 (VM's predecessor). "Fortunately" because I doubt I'd have been able to write that software. Even porting it from old CMS to new CMS was challenging -- and not helped by comments being in French (even having taken two years of French in high school -- with at least one semester using a chemistry textbook for class). Overall, it took relatively few tweaks to run. The last breakthrough was realizing that I had Maclibs (CMS macro libraries) in the wrong order so wrong macro versions were used for assembly. The primary application under VM was impressive -- displaying a simulated airspace where a number of fictional aircraft were flying. Plus one "real" airplane, a Linc Trainer (small aircraft flight simulator) in the data center with a real human pilot. I forget how the Linc Trainer connected to VM and what VM thought it was -- it surely wasn't a standard configurable peripheral. This was used for projects developing anti-collision algorithms and hardware for FAA. Charles Mills observed: The 2250 was a BEAST! Graphics. Light pen. A separate function key keypad. You could put typewritten labels in the function keys, and light up the allowed keys under program control. Had an 1130 computer under the hood as its controller. (No wonder it cost $$$.) The very first 360 application I ever saw was a 2250-driving system written in PL/I for one of the big pharmas -- trying to remember who. It was written by John Gilmore and Associates. (Yes, our very own IBMMAIN John Gilmore.) The idea was you could simulate the flow of a drug through the body, complete with a graphical representation. I don't believe it ever exactly worked. This would have been in 1969. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
In 1971, Mitre (DC-area non-profit think tank for government -- had a 2250 connected to OS/360, which included native device support for it. When we installed VM circa 1972, I got to make it work under CMS (component of VM). VERY fortunately someone at University of Grenoble (France) had written a lot of truly arcane and magnificent assembler code getting it to run under CMS part of CP/67 (VM's predecessor). "Fortunately" because I doubt I'd have been able to write that software. Even porting it from old CMS to new CMS was challenging -- and not helped by comments being in French (even having taken two years of French in high school -- with at least one semester using a chemistry textbook for class). Overall, it took relatively few tweaks to run. The last breakthrough was realizing that I had Maclibs (CMS macro libraries) in the wrong order so wrong macro versions were used for assembly. The primary application under VM was impressive -- displaying a simulated airspace where a number of fictional aircraft were flying. Plus one "real" airplane, a Linc Trainer (small aircraft flight simulator) in the data center with a real human pilot. I forget how the Linc Trainer connected to VM and what VM thought it was -- it surely wasn't a standard configurable peripheral. This was used for projects developing anti-collision algorithms and hardware for FAA. Charles Mills observed: The 2250 was a BEAST! Graphics. Light pen. A separate function key keypad. You could put typewritten labels in the function keys, and light up the allowed keys under program control. Had an 1130 computer under the hood as its controller. (No wonder it cost $$$.) The very first 360 application I ever saw was a 2250-driving system written in PL/I for one of the big pharmas -- trying to remember who. It was written by John Gilmore and Associates. (Yes, our very own IBMMAIN John Gilmore.) The idea was you could simulate the flow of a drug through the body, complete with a graphical representation. I don't believe it ever exactly worked. This would have been in 1969. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
No, the 2260 did not use mercury delay lines; in fact, I don't know of anything that used them after the early 1950s. The delay lines on the 2848 used magnetostriction. The 2265 was remote. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 9:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) First interactive system I ever wrote was for the 2260. Supported 80 terminals on a 360/50. People thought that was pretty astounding. (This was before CICS.) Control unit was the 2848. Used mercury delay lines for CRT memory. They were heated. On a Power On it took something like 20 minutes for them to come up to temperature. (Marvelous engineering decision -- a heated control unit in an air-conditioned datacenter.) They were mux channel attached; there was no "remote" 2260 IIRC. The client needed remote terminals. We found some third-party 2260 clone that supported bisync attachment. They supported color (because they used more or less off-the-shelf TV's for monitors). IIRC the color was "automatic" (protected fields in blue, unprotected fields in white, or whatever). Or there was some sort of special sequence that customized the display colors. (That is the relevance to this thread; would have been around 1972 or 1973.) The 2250 was a BEAST! Graphics. Light pen. A separate function key keypad. You could put typewritten labels in the function keys, and light up the allowed keys under program control. Had an 1130 computer under the hood as its controller. (No wonder it cost $$$.) The very first 360 application I ever saw was a 2250-driving system written in PL/I for one of the big pharmas -- trying to remember who. It was written by John Gilmore and Associates. (Yes, our very own IBMMAIN John Gilmore.) The idea was you could simulate the flow of a drug through the body, complete with a graphical representation. I don't believe it ever exactly worked. This would have been in 1969. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Attila Fogarasi Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 2:56 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) The 3279 used tri-plane symbols for extended colour (turquoise, pink, yellow and white, plus blank for all 3 primary colours off). This had the neat trick of allowing easy reverse video highlighting (invert the primary colour bits). GDDM was the software exploitation of 3279, which also introduced program symbols. Most programs used 10% of the 3279s rather complex capabilities (a situation not helped by only 2 of the 3279 models having the full capability set). Great case study on how to design great hardware badly, or rather so that it is not used. Note that the 2260 (3270 predecessor that used a keypunch mechanical keyboard) and 2250 (million dollar vector graphics terminal) were released circa 1965. So the 3279 is 15 years later. On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:55 PM Martin Packer wrote: > The interesting question to me is "which colours"? > > I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the > colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is > probably 110. > > Is this right, though? > > In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? > > Cheers, Martin > > Martin Packer > > WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales > > +44-7802-245-584 > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker > > Blog: > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1YGPosKZiFUgfxnOBL9vrrVAjRWHCHHO7z9uX-M738wu-ev3aFiqCANnBaIBhZHcmfUwhVDAY8QNWhCMT27G1gfioQM2n6fXggnXsuDkAukM1rmPaG8lj0pNlPi0oSApsRK8OEpEw0Jbh4zl_9Spu_z_L7j03Damb8lo_Mk2Mgpkz-1eLNoCoRVjD3vD5X5H-dDm5rWJ_sUPLtbiLaFwmS6NVvNCN4Vua-LfpzSLYJajU1VTJd7K7ua9Su010mLA_ZYa8kv6Oi1nJ20BuGpKS-NJVGDOza-tGEBPL8w8DLczm3PySk6d2jg74zSzv8NIXUdNMwdMWkW41N7lA0e735MzAKnP_Bt_fbs7bamHqOpW9ic3ifbo1Yy_PghmylbaMzJAuC2gtEa1hBjqcH-8D-XSGLW9kZm1cnmivFXVa0HvnSzkZOwcX7wNkeHTC1obl/https%3A%2F%2Fmainframeperformancetopics.com > > Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1GJYrwVMB_qhc97VD8hZc5neN28hgVWolmLNJgEKyDU6Msi8U7y4XgLsDUK-1fIeTIVxGV2fmNDRTNlhuV97Grgz2E3HdEaNZBhR3VbT6n3RrToXqW1p8VWq4cJH_5ph8uj8HhZ1wSwDwh1AxamwAA78w7dMFOAuhV7r-avHrJaw2y_7wkz2cguHFnR_mizEMMASR6SuK1uGbHbJMoNTbxaWNvIaVLqu9IT0SdF98159z-IolurlMLAPXS3Cnp9RMNUabVMOI_scgA9bxv0Np_pubnbfYDp4zUJBtBsAGY_wsxxGVqLHIpcklXN7ggAWaSiKnYdOCRYue2ypq-Xbm_6Qo3-XhSgckZhGyr_XlbgwjdUkwfCVK9dIxfTWP5omZ4V9zfEOiLAWEpPiXoEO5PUM3AvznOwKvTgQMwl-hnMr8itR2ZExrQSezhywoCMPYgr5jmL-0lG0mAcVfp840YA/http
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
The only valid planes for multi-plane characters are 001, 010 and 100; the only color attributes for SFE and SA are 3-bit. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Edward Finnell [000248cce9f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 5:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Extended Attribute In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? -Original Message- From: Martin Packer To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2021 2:54 am Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) The interesting question to me is "which colours"? I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is probably 110. Is this right, though? In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? Cheers, Martin Martin Packer WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1I6OPsUVTCFCLgNe1XqmaN_H2QL5ut909RvAFKY5N-wOzyItWT2eRC0Wgi3r8l_AerOytwrxq1JKa8IJjWhmTNkaAuQ8fCeOAEJ0Sl9t34VTr9MAmHMUMRVDFr_lul3goVLfHttaoV_mNam7_7eDeYw4NTpiG_IHLIR_4-JzfoNrD6aJazQuNm27j1DnGxe8nuF7kDtZDQhKvTbez1v7qjCs3e70_aHkdmCmK4OdHpllh1Q8cySH61rqwwP3lBwa5TkLoMuvjiyf780IvJ1P1tp4uHJQpFqt0H0B9K7JXTA810nTee5HOkIsuU6U8J-NK3iLRecL9Jo8NZS26pM8vGy8USuNpRnnJK1-NLIPKyUT0hSXqX_rzxeD7SXZ34Q6xQaNiO9qduYIg6IaLz-ZHJWqKZ45QmauVxVdvOrz2JpB9x-xSz8XFpSj5CV4Scxki/https%3A%2F%2Fmainframeperformancetopics.com Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://secure-web.cisco.com/19jnDAyTFo_m5zMXsY-r8tFZmCyHR3V4Qpzs_VpOjtb27SMpSQFdQiuZNSkjtEoa32I3v1KbDGoL7zaDe2G7x8hkYm-nM1MSaRLsM7jLOkXyzhSzZ9IdRHmtfWOEp-pgQseDYufnjcLfCfkbh1hJFYiLVmf1-q5zQAP1f9Rcf3qz2o0khsE_PqmFNi22LZz4FTKB16c35nRA5QoowRTcBdSprBJXSCP2sPUEIq5i9m3PcnmbUDXR95M0lIhX936IPwezJi5wbA6LS9qEyCSF1Xi_xKi2RZOhyF1sDdrUiSAGo8TENgTOM29reeDbN8wUrn4TgQNOPffjsznkyIguZYRpO3Qhpf-jmj8GnhFn6Sfl4-fzTIp0ewnDoomqZyRE3NdB_d_eJlC3cJcjqsgobLhBtsuOFIC8N1NqwWdGT3SqmyUdZ1bEfP2z5OpJ6a8kIGktj38biHaYlvzC3PN4-vg/https%3A%2F%2Fanchor.fm%2Fmarna-walle Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Harminc To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't recall when GDDM picked up color support. Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 series. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
Extended Attribute In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? -Original Message- From: Martin Packer To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2021 2:54 am Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) The interesting question to me is "which colours"? I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is probably 110. Is this right, though? In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? Cheers, Martin Martin Packer WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://anchor.fm/marna-walle Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Harminc To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't recall when GDDM picked up color support. Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 series. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
First interactive system I ever wrote was for the 2260. Supported 80 terminals on a 360/50. People thought that was pretty astounding. (This was before CICS.) Control unit was the 2848. Used mercury delay lines for CRT memory. They were heated. On a Power On it took something like 20 minutes for them to come up to temperature. (Marvelous engineering decision -- a heated control unit in an air-conditioned datacenter.) They were mux channel attached; there was no "remote" 2260 IIRC. The client needed remote terminals. We found some third-party 2260 clone that supported bisync attachment. They supported color (because they used more or less off-the-shelf TV's for monitors). IIRC the color was "automatic" (protected fields in blue, unprotected fields in white, or whatever). Or there was some sort of special sequence that customized the display colors. (That is the relevance to this thread; would have been around 1972 or 1973.) The 2250 was a BEAST! Graphics. Light pen. A separate function key keypad. You could put typewritten labels in the function keys, and light up the allowed keys under program control. Had an 1130 computer under the hood as its controller. (No wonder it cost $$$.) The very first 360 application I ever saw was a 2250-driving system written in PL/I for one of the big pharmas -- trying to remember who. It was written by John Gilmore and Associates. (Yes, our very own IBMMAIN John Gilmore.) The idea was you could simulate the flow of a drug through the body, complete with a graphical representation. I don't believe it ever exactly worked. This would have been in 1969. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Attila Fogarasi Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 2:56 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) The 3279 used tri-plane symbols for extended colour (turquoise, pink, yellow and white, plus blank for all 3 primary colours off). This had the neat trick of allowing easy reverse video highlighting (invert the primary colour bits). GDDM was the software exploitation of 3279, which also introduced program symbols. Most programs used 10% of the 3279s rather complex capabilities (a situation not helped by only 2 of the 3279 models having the full capability set). Great case study on how to design great hardware badly, or rather so that it is not used. Note that the 2260 (3270 predecessor that used a keypunch mechanical keyboard) and 2250 (million dollar vector graphics terminal) were released circa 1965. So the 3279 is 15 years later. On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:55 PM Martin Packer wrote: > The interesting question to me is "which colours"? > > I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the > colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is > probably 110. > > Is this right, though? > > In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? > > Cheers, Martin > > Martin Packer > > WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales > > +44-7802-245-584 > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker > > Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com > > Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): > https://anchor.fm/marna-walle > > Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA > > > > From: Tony Harminc > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history > question) > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't > recall when GDDM picked up color support. > > Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. > And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the > 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has > no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was > merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 > series. > > Tony H. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > Unless stated otherwise above: > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number > 741598. > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
First? Wasn't the 3278 the first to use EDS? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Harminc [t...@harminc.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:00 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't recall > when GDDM picked up color support. Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 series. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
That depends on the model and the mode. In the basic mode, the color was determined by one of four combination of attributes, e.g., intense and input. In EDS mode (2B and 3B only) there was also a color type for field and character attributes, with a choice of attributes. Multiplane symbols added another layer of complexity. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Martin Packer [martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 3:54 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) The interesting question to me is "which colours"? I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is probably 110. Is this right, though? In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? Cheers, Martin Martin Packer WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1K-uYK1eipWFSg-6F8XNC9m_2CAm1sZo_cFkRZQ8b9SP3yxiRIXY1kGG-X1UjpIoPU18B1vjwzGpiIXMzT7fHB62cQsbDWT-XUuy6Ctn6JTRFDlMYd47fyazRCHFtqSvV24HBIPst9cpirjDKUQQ9yy4dXbT0kWr7PD50k1lN-kZdxSCOkzW9mNM6MuofKZ8leHTtmqqBkwdTP9XLy97mRBJo8GveAJBlEm9uCU6eqdobf2vesil8x23USjmYoQMGM9UxB_b0ks-1FibtiBFz7TFRS3xmr0r6TfLD_zSyral9nZbd6cO60bgRX99BSfCITrEXk6UpWpNt8z5NO2rq9OaQA0ZKBb7rLf-bny0lV8I6V3GHVYWAycaf2g4g7BcKMy_qVndFmTMy4UFV1aQjkcyuSjaPK_msPFnQnopu77dISOgqBU2_qR7FfV56vMY5/https%3A%2F%2Fmainframeperformancetopics.com Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://secure-web.cisco.com/1pCNnU8kfL9doKBHIlVIZMuyHaCv0OdoTo35dxF9qR4b51FQPhhzpM1zczVJHBhp2IEbjrgShmpk32YIkXVS8yhgZTSjiEytCDoRLE7OrZkjiK7m1drXYdPIFyk5k-TWPCLoygXxp7mtytW1k5RZM4uZGYbUdZ_VjdL7J1VdLTnwiSR45imJX-MSuheP9OKWb264dPFx18AAhts-sbZdmVTPBl3B9VP7L5KNxtdthCvg7CVlnEac8IVABRzD3L4NbP8SQGL-APN8ApBNuhbICrPCXf518hbV2p8fU_Bub_odwpVSdSYZUWetgUxo58T3eoZvzmsR46cLs95Oey25WLgtKFLAU3jiGmujiziFQCWgGiFDfy6pNucIKG5iD4lPXoDyRvH6RoaPL_NNSLqnbPHgdA_3SF9XZSLAXN1XinmjP86ApXgoYiyGeYsUoXbSZA9GGaT7cPGckl7Ueqq6Wzw/https%3A%2F%2Fanchor.fm%2Fmarna-walle Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Harminc To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't recall when GDDM picked up color support. Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 series. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
GDDM was far from the only product to support color on the 3279. There was support in DIDOCS )a component of, e.g., MVS), ISPF and XEDIT (a component of VM/SP). GDDM used a hack with PSS to do graphics, befor APA came out. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Attila Fogarasi [fogar...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 5:56 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) The 3279 used tri-plane symbols for extended colour (turquoise, pink, yellow and white, plus blank for all 3 primary colours off). This had the neat trick of allowing easy reverse video highlighting (invert the primary colour bits). GDDM was the software exploitation of 3279, which also introduced program symbols. Most programs used 10% of the 3279s rather complex capabilities (a situation not helped by only 2 of the 3279 models having the full capability set). Great case study on how to design great hardware badly, or rather so that it is not used. Note that the 2260 (3270 predecessor that used a keypunch mechanical keyboard) and 2250 (million dollar vector graphics terminal) were released circa 1965. So the 3279 is 15 years later. On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:55 PM Martin Packer wrote: > The interesting question to me is "which colours"? > > I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the > colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is > probably 110. > > Is this right, though? > > In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? > > Cheers, Martin > > Martin Packer > > WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales > > +44-7802-245-584 > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker > > Blog: > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1tuksu0ukPCLppwAA105vO5AgobzrYuI6QbKFQsP37SpfCaspPwNHasuyXO3dTM-UIXrznH_heWw3zPVhEciQr2giuEjGwVHmL2tjlbVBhKJItAOaZW4QTTla3Q7xGpEYVSfplI7sYinKmwzq1_C4W1luMHIVEXjDbWmQzdGEwzR8vidSVPC4-oJ1kMuGCh0XZ4QfAyEqrjlsCWAH0IugtUYDxxGssUOzIvGD_9nxNnelNxSP9BfmNHsq9NwyhuqSgTaM16c2WMZHO3ld5qAsWSUGe9_l-Xwv8pNq8HzUthh6z-VKIpfaOsczs5kHTe2H07ZvdK84qTNcjV8WG8b6Anhkz_MYtuxVvMDqrsQlqTgRsGWeMBLavTvmZIBxfi5p0YEXrtkVKzBikSaXhN0scJTvQ1jBmmNAjDDipZ-cslZPSQlqBRY_-1uRqVgFNQKm/https%3A%2F%2Fmainframeperformancetopics.com > > Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1sdryWJ53tfoumGwdfCueUNAYvYNAzsJA0QieHMNyRFgqF6ltl54X9BHrC31AjccvWVOJQi9MweF4n5eZcC8qFNTmmv35YGvThgHmjrnEOJXCunSVfiZ4CixJbRAHPP-kY3Q9VW_c0RTg46tayZmKP0NMBjMnBfkA94dYUaIhpcdm4-zUaDIExfs2uqEiv48N_juVUMokbrmpXoZXa3v7qTSJuhO1KCk_1kVrGRtdqsAAB33EMx9LjfZORpURD1OB6d-FjDsQxRj_2NcvOVfjdRZFG-o6tCGQugQYqwvKxWSlaT4iZ5RxYzTfC_VMQSwbCA_RRdW217XzWsaJUhWYfxhQLdbeJidWdJztjHpgIYvSqtR2ykKgFlD3FIBfJ1te6g9SuuCQSA_q5WVLzOPL5W9j_o90xu58z6ywgNuXRSZjRT3Zq5kFmjN7y9oB9BRgMi9hFsEXId7LbscprUd9nQ/https%3A%2F%2Fanchor.fm%2Fmarna-walle > > Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA > > > > From: Tony Harminc > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history > question) > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't > recall when GDDM picked up color support. > > Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. > And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the > 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has > no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was > merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 > series. > > Tony H. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > Unless stated otherwise above: > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number > 741598. > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
My first experience with a real 3279 was in college, University of Texas at Arlington, 1983. Our engineering school had three along with a Tektronix graphics device (4010/14?) side by side. We could write code in fortran on the 3279 and use the graphics libraries to draw on the tektronix terminal... Joe On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 5:16 AM Colin Paice wrote: > I was around during 3279 development. I think it was code named hotspur > (or was it beano). > During a demo a customer (a big bank) asked "why do people need a colour > screen". A quick witted person replied "you could display overdrawn > accounts in red!!" "great - I'll put in an order". > And of course the managers got the colour screens first. > Colin > > On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 at 10:56, Attila Fogarasi wrote: > > > The 3279 used tri-plane symbols for extended colour (turquoise, pink, > > yellow and white, plus blank for all 3 primary colours off). This had > the > > neat trick of allowing easy reverse video highlighting (invert the > primary > > colour bits). GDDM was the software exploitation of 3279, which also > > introduced program symbols. Most programs used 10% of the 3279s rather > > complex capabilities (a situation not helped by only 2 of the 3279 models > > having the full capability set). Great case study on how to design great > > hardware badly, or rather so that it is not used. > > > > Note that the 2260 (3270 predecessor that used a keypunch mechanical > > keyboard) and 2250 (million dollar vector graphics terminal) were > released > > circa 1965. So the 3279 is 15 years later. > > > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:55 PM Martin Packer > > wrote: > > > > > The interesting question to me is "which colours"? > > > > > > I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the > > > colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow > is > > > probably 110. > > > > > > Is this right, though? > > > > > > In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? > > > > > > Cheers, Martin > > > > > > Martin Packer > > > > > > WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales > > > > > > +44-7802-245-584 > > > > > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com > > > > > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker > > > > > > Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com > > > > > > Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): > > > https://anchor.fm/marna-walle > > > > > > Youtube channel: > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Tony Harminc > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 > > > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history > > > question) > > > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List < > IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > > > > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I > don't > > > recall when GDDM picked up color support. > > > > > > Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. > > > And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the > > > 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has > > > no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was > > > merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 > > > series. > > > > > > Tony H. > > > > > > -- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless stated otherwise above: > > > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with > number > > > 741598. > > > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 > > 3AU > > > > > > > > > -- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
I was around during 3279 development. I think it was code named hotspur (or was it beano). During a demo a customer (a big bank) asked "why do people need a colour screen". A quick witted person replied "you could display overdrawn accounts in red!!" "great - I'll put in an order". And of course the managers got the colour screens first. Colin On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 at 10:56, Attila Fogarasi wrote: > The 3279 used tri-plane symbols for extended colour (turquoise, pink, > yellow and white, plus blank for all 3 primary colours off). This had the > neat trick of allowing easy reverse video highlighting (invert the primary > colour bits). GDDM was the software exploitation of 3279, which also > introduced program symbols. Most programs used 10% of the 3279s rather > complex capabilities (a situation not helped by only 2 of the 3279 models > having the full capability set). Great case study on how to design great > hardware badly, or rather so that it is not used. > > Note that the 2260 (3270 predecessor that used a keypunch mechanical > keyboard) and 2250 (million dollar vector graphics terminal) were released > circa 1965. So the 3279 is 15 years later. > > On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:55 PM Martin Packer > wrote: > > > The interesting question to me is "which colours"? > > > > I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the > > colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is > > probably 110. > > > > Is this right, though? > > > > In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? > > > > Cheers, Martin > > > > Martin Packer > > > > WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales > > > > +44-7802-245-584 > > > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com > > > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker > > > > Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com > > > > Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): > > https://anchor.fm/marna-walle > > > > Youtube channel: > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA > > > > > > > > From: Tony Harminc > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 > > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history > > question) > > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > > > > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't > > recall when GDDM picked up color support. > > > > Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. > > And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the > > 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has > > no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was > > merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 > > series. > > > > Tony H. > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > Unless stated otherwise above: > > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number > > 741598. > > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 > 3AU > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
The 3279 used tri-plane symbols for extended colour (turquoise, pink, yellow and white, plus blank for all 3 primary colours off). This had the neat trick of allowing easy reverse video highlighting (invert the primary colour bits). GDDM was the software exploitation of 3279, which also introduced program symbols. Most programs used 10% of the 3279s rather complex capabilities (a situation not helped by only 2 of the 3279 models having the full capability set). Great case study on how to design great hardware badly, or rather so that it is not used. Note that the 2260 (3270 predecessor that used a keypunch mechanical keyboard) and 2250 (million dollar vector graphics terminal) were released circa 1965. So the 3279 is 15 years later. On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 7:55 PM Martin Packer wrote: > The interesting question to me is "which colours"? > > I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the > colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is > probably 110. > > Is this right, though? > > In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? > > Cheers, Martin > > Martin Packer > > WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales > > +44-7802-245-584 > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker > > Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com > > Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): > https://anchor.fm/marna-walle > > Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA > > > > From: Tony Harminc > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history > question) > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't > recall when GDDM picked up color support. > > Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. > And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the > 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has > no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was > merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 > series. > > Tony H. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > Unless stated otherwise above: > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number > 741598. > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
The interesting question to me is "which colours"? I would say we started with a 3-bit colour space: R, G, B. And so the colour Red is 100 in this space and a more complex colour like Yellow is probably 110. Is this right, though? In particular I'd be surprised if a 4th bit weren't used. But for what? Cheers, Martin Martin Packer WW z/OS Performance, Capacity and Architecture, IBM Technology Sales +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Mainframe, Performance, Topics Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://anchor.fm/marna-walle Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Harminc To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 24/02/2021 01:00 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't recall when GDDM picked up color support. Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 series. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 19:10, Seymour J Metz wrote: > IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't recall > when GDDM picked up color support. Very early 1980s - earlier than I remember support for DIDOCS or ISPF. And almost certainly GDDM was under development in parallel with the 3279 hardware; IBM rarely comes out with hardware on a whim that has no software to support it. One must also remember that the 3279 was merely the first implementation of an architectural shift in the 3270 series. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
For some reason, people insist on calling a CRT with an amber phosphor a green screen. IBM probably had color devices for the military or for process control before the 3279, but I know of no commercial color CRT terminal before it. IBM had color support for DIDOCS, ISPF and XEDIT pretty early. I don't recall when GDDM picked up color support. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Radoslaw Skorupka [r.skoru...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Simple question: As we know "green terminal" is colorful. For me it was "always" colorful, because I started with colorful CRT display. However it raises question: when the colours were introduced? I mean ISPF, but it can be any other application, like MVS console or z/VM XEDIT, whatever. Note: colourful applications may work fine with monochrome displays, so it is not the question "when you started using colorful CRT". Any clue? -- Radoslaw Skorupka (looking for new job) Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question)
https://en.wikipedia..org/wiki/IBM_3270#3279 1979 Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 2:05 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) Simple question: As we know "green terminal" is colorful. For me it was "always" colorful, because I started with colorful CRT display. However it raises question: when the colours were introduced? I mean ISPF, but it can be any other application, like MVS console or z/VM XEDIT, whatever. Note: colourful applications may work fine with monochrome displays, so it is not the question "when you started using colorful CRT". Any clue? -- Radoslaw Skorupka (looking for new job) Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) [EXTERNAL]
My first color terminal was a 3279 in the early 1980s. I think we had both a model 2 and model 3. I don't recall if they had the extended color feature. As far as I know the IBM 3279 was IBMs first color terminal. Thanks.. Paul Feller GTS Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:05 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Colours on screen (mainframe history question) [EXTERNAL] Simple question: As we know "green terminal" is colorful. For me it was "always" colorful, because I started with colorful CRT display. However it raises question: when the colours were introduced? I mean ISPF, but it can be any other application, like MVS console or z/VM XEDIT, whatever. Note: colourful applications may work fine with monochrome displays, so it is not the question "when you started using colorful CRT". Any clue? -- Radoslaw Skorupka (looking for new job) Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Please note: This message originated outside your organization. Please use caution when opening links or attachments. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
