Re: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen
We run SAP on Windoze with about 200 users online at once. It works reasonably well, and I can't recall when we last re-booted the SAP servers. I know they are shut down over daylight saving changes for some reason, but other than that perhaps the odd tine when applying MS updates. However SAP is a beast and in order to get it to perform it needs to have plenty of devices to spread the i/o over. I do see i/o bottle necks from time to time, and when I persuaded them to move the main database files to a dedicated tray of disks in the SAN things improved markedley. The BIGGEST problem with Windows is that managers (mine included) don't understand that you need to design the server platform. They think you can just sling in any config and it will work. For big systems such as SAP You MUST design the storage subsystem for I/O throughput NOT for capacity.. Dave - Original Message - From: Tom Huegel To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:49 AM Subject: Re: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen My 2 centsTwo previous employers dropped the mainframe for SAP one on HP UNIX the other laughably on WINDOZE servers. The HP conversion was budgeted at $10 mil .. a few years and $50 mil later the company went bankrupt. Company 2 managed a sucessful conversion but now they spend all of their time adding hardware and rebooting WINDOZE. There has been no savings or increase in productivity. On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Rich Smrcina r...@velocitysoftware.com wrote: I was involved last year with a large SAP implementation in the NYC area. When done right, it can be a good thing. But yes, it does take a fair number of people and a good deal of planning. The System z deployment is saving them (the NYC company) a boatload of money, though. Their SAP implementation on z is much faster than the one they came from (which I think was Solaris, or maybe AIX). On 06/30/2010 09:02 AM, Edward M Martin wrote: Hello Rich, I am always amazed at the cost of SAP and salaries commanded by SAP programmers. Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-363-5050 ext 35050 -- Rich Smrcina Phone: 414-491-6001 http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2011 - April 15-19, 2011 Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen
What I didn't mention in my original message was that the initial part of the SAP implementation was considered ontime and on budget. The plant that was using it was consistently profitable, whereas the others (on the 'mainframe') were generally unprofitable. Unfortunately, rolling out SAP to the other plants was problematic. The plant management was skeptical (regardless of the profitable one), corporate management was not willing to force them to convert. The result? A suddenly long implementation schedule which caused a significant increase in the amount of money being spent. Money that they already couldn't afford. This (partly) and the economic climate caused them to declare bankruptcy last February (2009), they came out late last year. The new owner is running a foundry system that runs on System i. So there was a mad rush to get a System i in house and learn how to use it, with a decimated and over taxed work force no less. The kicker to this, the application on System i uses 5250 screens, *not* any new GUI or web technology. So they went from mainframe tried-and-true 3270 technology to a dalliance with Peoplesoft and SAP, back to green screen! On 06/30/2010 09:49 PM, Tom Huegel wrote: My 2 centsTwo previous employers dropped the mainframe for SAP one on HP UNIX the other laughably on WINDOZE servers. The HP conversion was budgeted at $10 mil .. a few years and $50 mil later the company went bankrupt. Company 2 managed a sucessful conversion but now they spend all of their time adding hardware and rebooting WINDOZE. There has been no savings or increase in productivity. -- Rich Smrcina Phone: 414-491-6001 http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2011 - April 15-19, 2011 Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen
Sorry to hear that Rich. Many years ago I was supporting Toronto District School Board. They converted to a SAP solution. It hurt me inside but it was no were near the financial hurt TDSB felt. Ops. My mother said if you have nothing nice to say donèt say anything. I guess I said to much. Hans -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Rich Smrcina Sent: June-30-10 8:58 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen Cross-posted to vse-l and ibmvm. Sorry for duplications. I am saddened to announce that today I am shutting down the mainframe at Grede Foundries in Milwaukee, WI. Grede was one of the Linux for S/390 poster children when the mainframe port was first available around Christmas, 1999 from Marist. There were a couple attempts to eliminate the mainframe over the years, first with Peoplesoft; more recently with SAP. The SAP implementation had a fair potential of actually being moved to the mainframe (it was sourced remotely), but wasn't financially feasible. *NOT* due to hardware or software requirements, but due to the need to hire local SAP expertise. I started at Grede in 1996 after their systems programmer moved on. I left in the fall of 2001 for VM Assist, and supported their VM, VSE and Linux systems in a consulting role, until today. After formatting the data on the Shark, VM1 and VM2 will be shut down for the last time. -- Rich Smrcina Phone: 414-491-6001 http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2011 - April 15-19, 2011 Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen
Hello Rich, I am always amazed at the cost of SAP and salaries commanded by SAP programmers. Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-363-5050 ext 35050 -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Rich Smrcina Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 8:58 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen Cross-posted to vse-l and ibmvm. Sorry for duplications. I am saddened to announce that today I am shutting down the mainframe at Grede Foundries in Milwaukee, WI. Grede was one of the Linux for S/390 poster children when the mainframe port was first available around Christmas, 1999 from Marist. There were a couple attempts to eliminate the mainframe over the years, first with Peoplesoft; more recently with SAP. The SAP implementation had a fair potential of actually being moved to the mainframe (it was sourced remotely), but wasn't financially feasible. *NOT* due to hardware or software requirements, but due to the need to hire local SAP expertise. I started at Grede in 1996 after their systems programmer moved on. I left in the fall of 2001 for VM Assist, and supported their VM, VSE and Linux systems in a consulting role, until today. After formatting the data on the Shark, VM1 and VM2 will be shut down for the last time. -- Rich Smrcina Phone: 414-491-6001 http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2011 - April 15-19, 2011 Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen
I was involved last year with a large SAP implementation in the NYC area. When done right, it can be a good thing. But yes, it does take a fair number of people and a good deal of planning. The System z deployment is saving them (the NYC company) a boatload of money, though. Their SAP implementation on z is much faster than the one they came from (which I think was Solaris, or maybe AIX). On 06/30/2010 09:02 AM, Edward M Martin wrote: Hello Rich, I am always amazed at the cost of SAP and salaries commanded by SAP programmers. Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-363-5050 ext 35050 -- Rich Smrcina Phone: 414-491-6001 http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2011 - April 15-19, 2011 Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Goodbye, Farewell and Amen
My 2 centsTwo previous employers dropped the mainframe for SAP one on HP UNIX the other laughably on WINDOZE servers. The HP conversion was budgeted at $10 mil .. a few years and $50 mil later the company went bankrupt. Company 2 managed a sucessful conversion but now they spend all of their time adding hardware and rebooting WINDOZE. There has been no savings or increase in productivity. On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Rich Smrcina r...@velocitysoftware.comwrote: I was involved last year with a large SAP implementation in the NYC area. When done right, it can be a good thing. But yes, it does take a fair number of people and a good deal of planning. The System z deployment is saving them (the NYC company) a boatload of money, though. Their SAP implementation on z is much faster than the one they came from (which I think was Solaris, or maybe AIX). On 06/30/2010 09:02 AM, Edward M Martin wrote: Hello Rich, I am always amazed at the cost of SAP and salaries commanded by SAP programmers. Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-363-5050 ext 35050 -- Rich Smrcina Phone: 414-491-6001 http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2011 - April 15-19, 2011 Colorado Springs, CO
