Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Should it really be Noli nothis permittere te terere Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 ext 40441 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:24 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum* Edward M. Martin wrote: Should it really be /Noli nothis permittere te terere/ Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 ext 40441 *From:* The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Schuh, Richard *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2008 2:24 PM *To:* IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU *Subject:* Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. Regards, Richard Schuh -- 'in media stat virtus' Virtue's in the middle
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Depends on whether you are trying to be correct and not understood, or just understood, by the masses who do not speak Latin. Who among those of us who do not speak Latin would ever be able to decipher, Noli nothis permittere te terere? Wasn't Illegitimi non Carborundum originally intended to be humorous? Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward M. Martin Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:37 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Should it really be Noli nothis permittere te terere Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 ext 40441 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:24 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Who among those of us who do not speak Latin Bloody barbarians. They don't speak Greek either! 8-) So before you go on about the bloody Romans, don't you forget... you're one of 'em! -- Not the Messiah, He's a Very Naughty Boy!
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
It still is... (meant to be humorous) Dave Wade G4UGM Illegitimi Non Carborundum -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: 25 August 2008 17:20 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Depends on whether you are trying to be correct and not understood, or just understood, by the masses who do not speak Latin. Who among those of us who do not speak Latin would ever be able to decipher, Noli nothis permittere te terere? Wasn't Illegitimi non Carborundum originally intended to be humorous? Regards, Richard Schuh _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward M. Martin Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:37 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Should it really be Noli nothis permittere te terere Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 ext 40441 _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:24 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
In fact it is not even real Latin, it is pseudo Latin. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Wade Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:49 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? It still is. (meant to be humorous) Dave Wade G4UGM Illegitimi Non Carborundum -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: 25 August 2008 17:20 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Depends on whether you are trying to be correct and not understood, or just understood, by the masses who do not speak Latin. Who among those of us who do not speak Latin would ever be able to decipher, Noli nothis permittere te terere? Wasn't Illegitimi non Carborundum originally intended to be humorous? Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward M. Martin Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:37 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Should it really be Noli nothis permittere te terere Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 ext 40441 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:24 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
High school latin 3 decades agao notwithsatanding, what the heck does that mean? None of those words translate or even transliterate inside my head.? Most like a failure inside my head... :)? -Paul ? -Original Message- From: Schuh, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:19 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Depends on whether you are trying to be correct and not understood, or just understood, by the masses who do not speak Latin. Who among those of us who do not speak Latin would ever be able to decipher, Noli nothis permittere te terere??? ? Wasn't? Illegitimi non Carborundum originally intended to be humorous? Regards, Richard Schuh ? ? From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward M. Martin Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:37 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Should it really be Noli nothis permittere te terere ? Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 ext 40441 From:The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:24 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? ? Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum ? After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. ? Regards, Richard Schuh ? ?
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Illegitimi non Carborundum Loosely translated: Don't let the b*st*rds grind you down On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:12:16 +, Paul Raulerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: High school latin 3 decades agao notwithsatanding, what the heck does th at mean? None of those words translate or even transliterate inside my head. ? Most like a failure inside my head... :)? -Paul
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Shuddering as I reply to this thread, but this is starting to closely resemble an IBM-MAIN list thread, not a good thing! Wayne Driscoll Product Developer NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Kern Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:25 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Illegitimi non Carborundum Loosely translated: Don't let the b*st*rds grind you down On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:12:16 +, Paul Raulerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = wrote: High school latin 3 decades agao notwithsatanding, what the heck does th= at mean? None of those words translate or even transliterate inside my head.= ? Most like a failure inside my head... :)? -Paul
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Paul, Thanks for asking the question that most of would like to know the answer to Loren Charnley, Jr. IT Systems Engineer FAMILY DOLLAR (704) 847-6961 Ext. 3327 (704) 814-3327 [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Raulerson Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 2:12 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? High school latin 3 decades agao notwithsatanding, what the heck does that mean? None of those words translate or even transliterate inside my head.? Most like a failure inside my head... :)? -Paul ? -Original Message- From: Schuh, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:19 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Depends on whether you are trying to be correct and not understood, or just understood, by the masses who do not speak Latin. Who among those of us who do not speak Latin would ever be able to decipher, Noli nothis permittere te terere??? ? Wasn't? Illegitimi non Carborundum originally intended to be humorous? Regards, Richard Schuh ? ? From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward M. Martin Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:37 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Should it really be Noli nothis permittere te terere ? Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 ext 40441 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:24 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? ? Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum ? After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. ? Regards, Richard Schuh ? ? NOTE: This e-mail message contains PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL information and is intended only for the use of the specific individual or individuals to which it is addressed. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of this e-mail or the information contained herein or attached hereto is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify the person named above by reply e-mail and please delete it. Thank you.
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Was I the only one who followed the link in Phil Tully's message of about three hours ago? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_non_carborundum Marty Martin Zimelis Principal maz/Consultancy _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LOREN CHARNLEY Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 2:37 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Paul, Thanks for asking the question that most of would like to know the answer to.. Loren Charnley, Jr. IT Systems Engineer FAMILY DOLLAR (704) 847-6961 Ext. 3327 (704) 814-3327 [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Raulerson Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 2:12 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? High school latin 3 decades agao notwithsatanding, what the heck does that mean? None of those words translate or even transliterate inside my head.? Most like a failure inside my head... :)? -Paul ? -Original Message- From: Schuh, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 11:19 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Depends on whether you are trying to be correct and not understood, or just understood, by the masses who do not speak Latin. Who among those of us who do not speak Latin would ever be able to decipher, Noli nothis permittere te terere??? ? Wasn't? Illegitimi non Carborundum originally intended to be humorous? Regards, Richard Schuh ? ? _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward M. Martin Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:37 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Should it really be Noli nothis permittere te terere ? Ed Martin Aultman Health Foundation 330-588-4723 ext 40441 _ From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:24 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? ? Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum ? After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. ? Regards, Richard Schuh ? ? _ NOTE: This e-mail message contains PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL information and is intended only for the use of the specific individual or individuals to which it is addressed. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of this e-mail or the information contained herein or attached hereto is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, notify the person named above by reply e-mail and please delete it. Thank you.
A brief comment from our moderator, Re: [IBMVM] Where Do I Go From Here?
Dearest friends and colleagues, By my (very likely imprecise) count, the last ten posts in this thread have added little by way of technical content to the original topic. I offer this comment as a gentle reminder that most - perhaps all - of the 881 current subscribers to our little kaffeeklatsch are very busy people. Please be respectful of the time and attention each of our members requires in order to participate in the discussion by restraining the urge to take threads such as this one on a romp through the off-topic briar patch. My friends, I beseech you: Let it go. Write it if you must, but then carefully step away from the send button and instead cache those sparkling gems of wit in the drafts folder for some other mailing list, on some other day. With most kind regards, -dan. Daniel P. Martin -- IBMVM List Janitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:49:49 -0500, Karl Severson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ON.COM wrote: Of my options, which would be the most efficient? The latest zVM with a VM/ESA guest? The latest zOS with a VM/ESA guest? Some other combination ? Karl Severson IBM VM System Administrator Raytheon Company El Segundo, California = == = z/OS doesn't run guests. Don't feel bad, I hear this all the time. Usuall y as Let's run Linux under z/OS. I don't know why z/OS doesn't run guests (but I can guess). z/OS d oes everything else. The simile I made up years ago (when z/OS was called MVS): Solving things with MVS is like getting a bowling ball with the same diam eter as the lane -- it my be huge and hard to roll, but it is guaranteed to knock down all the pins . Alan Ackerman Alan (dot) Ackerman (at) Bank of America (dot) com
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
No zSeries Machines provide 370 mode (370 mode got removed in some of te latest 9672 generations). To be able to use a MACHINE 370, 370 mode must be provided by the HW, Running VM/ESA as guest of z/VM will not help. The solution/bypass to allow running CMS 370-mode applications in XA-mode machines was the 370 Accommodation feature, activated with SET 370ACCOM ON. I don't remember in which VM/ESA release it first appeared, nor in which release it was improved. The latest (and still available version) is a co-operation between CMS and CP. It has been discussed here recently. 2008/8/22 Karl J Severson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard: We have 370 mode in V2.3 so that's no problem. My concern is it's lack of availability in the more recent versions of zVM/CMS. That's why we would need to run a guest VM/ESA or maybe zVM 3.1 partition under the latest zVM so we could keep 370 mode. At least that's my understanding. Karl Severson IBM VM Systems Administrator Raytheon Company El Segundo, California -The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU wrote: - To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU From: Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Date: 08/21/2008 03:12PM Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Have you tried CP SET 370ACCOM ON and SET CMS370AC ON while running in an ESA mode machine? Regards, Richard Schuh -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 08:19:22PM -0400, David Boyes wrote: If you truly still need 370 mode, you're going to be hard pressed to find a system that will still run true 370 mode. Most (if not all) the modern systems no longer have true 370 mode microcode. Howeveron a modern z9 you can probably run Hercules and get as much speed as you ever would have on a real 370. Hercules can emulate a 370 very accurately, and if you can license the system to your actual CPU, then it might even be legal. I doubt anything specifies WHAT the intervening virtual machine layers are. Adam
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
On: Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 07:21:37PM -0700,Karl J Severson Wrote: } Richard: } We have 370 mode in V2.3 so that's no problem. My concern is it's lack of } availability in the more recent versions of zVM/CMS. That's why we would need } to run a guest VM/ESA or maybe zVM 3.1 partition under the latest zVM so we } could keep 370 mode. At least that's my understanding. Different Richard here, but I can tell you that your understanding is not correct. If the underlying hardware doesn't support 370 mode, neither VM/ESA or 3.1 can give you what isn't there. -- Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself my dogs only.VM'er since CP-67 Canines:Val, Red, Shasta Casey (RIP), Red Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Richard:Yes, thanks - I remembered after I sent the note andwent home for the day that 370 mode is also machine dependant as well.Karl SeversonIBM VM System AdministratorRaytheon CompanyEl Segundo, California---Different Richard here, but I can tell you that your understanding isnot correct. If the underlying hardware doesn't support 370 mode,neither VM/ESA or 3.1 can give you what isn't there.
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Thanks to all who have responded to this post. There are many interesting ideas that I can present to the upgrade team. I know that I have brought this subject up before as someone mentioned but at that time, it was mainly for OS upgrade (where I was concerned about 370 mode) on our current platforms which are four 3006 S/390 boxes and one zFrame Flex-ES box. However now I need toreplace the unsupported 3006 boxes so theproject became one to upgrade the hardware as well.Karl SeversonIBM VM System AdministratorRaytheon CompanyEl Segundo, California
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Look the GCC compiler I built on VM/370 R6 runs fine in 370 mode in zVM5.2, as do many of the other application built on that platform. You only need to worry about real 370 mode if you application issues 370 mode specific instructions, typically SIO , SIOF etc. or wants to run with a BCMODE PSW. As I know nothing of the guts of Jovial I can't say if this would affect it. If it does then will it run on a really old VM system on Hercules. Critical question is what apps are you running and where do they get there data from and send it too. Dave Wade G4UGM Illegitimi Non Carborundum -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karl J Severson Sent: 22 August 2008 03:22 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Richard: We have 370 mode in V2.3 so that's no problem. My concern is it's lack of availability in the more recent versions of zVM/CMS. That's why we would need to run a guest VM/ESA or maybe zVM 3.1 partition under the latest zVM so we could keep 370 mode. At least that's my understanding. Karl Severson IBM VM Systems Administrator Raytheon Company El Segundo, California -The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU wrote: - To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU From: Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Date: 08/21/2008 03:12PM Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Have you tried CP SET 370ACCOM ON and SET CMS370AC ON while running in an ESA mode machine? Regards, Richard Schuh =
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Dave Wade said Illegitimi Non Carborundum After so many years of abrasion, your skin gets thinner. I do not suffer fools nearly as well as I once did. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Wade Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 11:17 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Look the GCC compiler I built on VM/370 R6 runs fine in 370 mode in zVM5.2, as do many of the other application built on that platform. You only need to worry about real 370 mode if you application issues 370 mode specific instructions, typically SIO , SIOF etc. or wants to run with a BCMODE PSW. As I know nothing of the guts of Jovial I can't say if this would affect it. If it does then will it run on a really old VM system on Hercules. Critical question is what apps are you running and where do they get there data from and send it too... Dave Wade G4UGM Illegitimi Non Carborundum -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karl J Severson Sent: 22 August 2008 03:22 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Richard: We have 370 mode in V2.3 so that's no problem. My concern is it's lack of availability in the more recent versions of zVM/CMS. That's why we would need to run a guest VM/ESA or maybe zVM 3.1 partition under the latest zVM so we could keep 370 mode. At least that's my understanding. Karl Severson IBM VM Systems Administrator Raytheon Company El Segundo, California -The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU wrote: - To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU From: Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Date: 08/21/2008 03:12PM Subject: Re: Where Do I Go From Here? Have you tried CP SET 370ACCOM ON and SET CMS370AC ON while running in an ESA mode machine? Regards, Richard Schuh =
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
As I know nothing of the guts of Jovial I can't say if this would affect it. If it does then will it run on a really old VM system on Hercules. Critical question is what apps are you running and where do they get there data from and send it too... Dave Wade G4UGM Illegitimi Non Carborundum It would have to be a REALLY old version of VM, eg VM/370. You can't legally license and run any modern VM on Hercules for production work. Richard's suggession of CMSACCOM and friends is the only way you could legally do this.
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
VM/370 R6 runs much faster on my laptop than I remember it running on the Amdahl 470V6 I used to work on. I wish I could get my hands on the Genera l Circulation Model that we used to run and see how fast my laptop can do a three day weather forecast. /Tom Kern On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:26:21 -0400, David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] w rote: It would have to be a REALLY old version of VM, eg VM/370. You can't legally license and run any modern VM on Hercules for production work. Richard's suggession of CMSACCOM and friends is the only way you could legally do this.
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
On Friday, 08/22/2008 at 02:26 EDT, Dave Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look the GCC compiler I built on VM/370 R6 runs fine in 370 mode in zVM5.2 The phrase 370 mode in zVM5.2 doesn't make sense. There is no 370 microcode on any machine on which you can run z/VM 5.2. Further, if there were, z/Architecture does not define 370 mode in the Interpretive Execution Facility (SIE). Perhaps you are referring to the 370 Accomodation Facility? Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Alan, You are correct as usual, and I can't honestly think why I said that, I am getting AMODE and RMODE muddled with architecture. (senior moment as we say in GB land) What I meant to say is that it runs fine as an AMODE 24 module without changing any settings. Much to my suprise it does not need any 370 mode accomodation settings, it just works fine out of the box so to speak. Dave Alan Altmark wrote: On Friday, 08/22/2008 at 02:26 EDT, Dave Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look the GCC compiler I built on VM/370 R6 runs fine in 370 mode in zVM5.2 The phrase 370 mode in zVM5.2 doesn't make sense. There is no 370 microcode on any machine on which you can run z/VM 5.2. Further, if there were, z/Architecture does not define 370 mode in the Interpretive Execution Facility (SIE). Perhaps you are referring to the 370 Accomodation Facility? Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Where Do I Go From Here?
I need some advice and hopefully someone on this list serve has already tackled the problem I’m having. We run our IBM systems solely to suppor t the U.S. Air Force Jovial J73 compiler and its assorted toolset. The compiler was originally written to run on MVS but it was tweaked for us t o run on VM in 370 mode back in the mid 1980’s. Needless to say we are running unsupported software, in our case VM/ESA 2.3 so as a result we aren’t running any modern big IBM iron either. My organization is considering re-hosting Jovial on some sort of Windows platform but I’d like to keep this an IBM operation if at all possible. We also heavily use Uni x, Linux and Windows on other platforms. To offset some of the cost of a new system (z9 at a minimum) maybe it could do double or triple duty replacin g some of those other platforms. Of my options, which would be the most efficient? The latest zVM with a VM/ESA guest? The latest zOS with a VM/ESA guest? Some other combination? Or, heaven forbid, go with re-hosting to Windows? I’m not worried about putting myself out of a job. I’ve already retired once and am just doin g some contractor work at the place I retired from. ;-) Thanks in advance. Karl Severson IBM VM System Administrator Raytheon Company El Segundo, California
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Have you tried CP SET 370ACCOM ON and SET CMS370AC ON while running in an ESA mode machine? Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karl Severson Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:50 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Where Do I Go From Here? I need some advice and hopefully someone on this list serve has already = tackled the problem I'm having. We run our IBM systems solely to suppor= t the U.S. Air Force Jovial J73 compiler and its assorted toolset. The compiler was originally written to run on MVS but it was tweaked for us t= o run on VM in 370 mode back in the mid 1980's. Needless to say we are = running unsupported software, in our case VM/ESA 2.3 so as a result we = aren't running any modern big IBM iron either. My organization is considering re-hosting Jovial on some sort of Windows platform but I'd = like to keep this an IBM operation if at all possible. We also heavily use Uni= x, Linux and Windows on other platforms. To offset some of the cost of a new= system (z9 at a minimum) maybe it could do double or triple duty replacin= g some of those other platforms. Of my options, which would be the most efficient? The latest zVM with a = VM/ESA guest? The latest zOS with a VM/ESA guest? Some other combination?= Or, heaven forbid, go with re-hosting to Windows? I'm not worried about= putting myself out of a job. I've already retired once and am just doin= g some contractor work at the place I retired from. ;-) Thanks in advance. Karl Severson IBM VM System Administrator Raytheon Company El Segundo, California
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
If you could get the source code for the compiler, then you should update it to be z-exploitative. And then update it to run under linux on z hardware (LPAR or under z/VM). That will let you not just move to current supported hardware, but be able to move forward with IBM hardware. If you need to move to non-370 related hardware (x86, AMD, Sun) then rewrite it in C on a linux operating system. From there you can recompile, update for any of the other hardware platforms and even for Windows. /Tom Kern Karl Severson wrote: I need some advice and hopefully someone on this list serve has already tackled the problem I’m having. We run our IBM systems solely to support the U.S. Air Force Jovial J73 compiler and its assorted toolset. The compiler was originally written to run on MVS but it was tweaked for us to run on VM in 370 mode back in the mid 1980’s. Needless to say we are running unsupported software, in our case VM/ESA 2.3 so as a result we aren’t running any modern big IBM iron either. My organization is considering re-hosting Jovial on some sort of Windows platform but I’d like to keep this an IBM operation if at all possible. We also heavily use Unix, Linux and Windows on other platforms. To offset some of the cost of a new system (z9 at a minimum) maybe it could do double or triple duty replacing some of those other platforms. Of my options, which would be the most efficient? The latest zVM with a VM/ESA guest? The latest zOS with a VM/ESA guest? Some other combination? Or, heaven forbid, go with re-hosting to Windows? I’m not worried about putting myself out of a job. I’ve already retired once and am just doing some contractor work at the place I retired from. ;-) Thanks in advance. Karl Severson IBM VM System Administrator Raytheon Company El Segundo, California
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
On 8/21/08 5:49 PM, Karl Severson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The compiler was originally written to run on MVS but it was tweaked for us t o run on VM in 370 mode back in the mid 1980¹s. If you truly still need 370 mode, you're going to be hard pressed to find a system that will still run true 370 mode. Most (if not all) the modern systems no longer have true 370 mode microcode. My organization is considering re-hosting Jovial on some sort of Windows platform Considering the amount of work on not just the applications but all the surrounding environment and data management, this would be a REALLY bad idea. You might be better off talking to HP about a VMS-based solution (they offered, and AFAIK, still offer a fairly decent Jovial compiler, and at least VMS understands labeled tapes and batch natively. It'd probably be less work to update the compiler you have for a modern CMS, or port it to Linux (either on Z or on some Intelish thing), and cost the Army less to run it as well. to keep this an IBM operation if at all possible. We also heavily use Unix, Linux and Windows on other platforms. To offset some of the cost of a new system (z9 at a minimum) maybe it could do double or triple duty replacing some of those other platforms. Good thought. A combination of Linux, CMS and OpenSolaris virtual machines would be a very compelling case. Of my options, which would be the most efficient? The latest zVM with a VM/ESA guest? The latest zOS with a VM/ESA guest? Some other combination? Or, heaven forbid, go with re-hosting to Windows? If you have source for the Jovial compiler and runtime, go to the latest z/VM and the latest CMS and ditch the VM/ESA system, or at least limit its use to a migration system. Z/OS is very unlikely to be cost-effective (and can't run VM/ESA as a guest anyway). Windows will be the most expensive option if you incorporate all the porting costs and the surrounding environment necessary to make this work. A Linux port would be very cost effective, especially if you can pick up some additional virtual workload in the process (and IFLs would make the new machine LOADS cheaper). Check out the OpenVMS solution as well. Since you're being systematic about it, the HP Integrity boxes are a lot of bang for the buck for VMS. -- db
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Jovial! Lord I miss working with that, and CMS-2Q too. :) Anyways, have you looked at the used market? You can pick up a used z800 o a z890 for a sweet deal these days, often well under $100K. z/ VM is available to license for those machines at a pretty good cost, and you can always negotiate a discount. Since you don't need to run z/OS, z9's are available with a couple IFL's for the sub $500K mark, with DASD. (You definitely have to negotiate that...) Or if you can run under MVS, look at hosting it on Hercules under Intel Linux. Very cheap! -Paul On Aug 21, 2008, at 4:49 PM, Karl Severson wrote: I need some advice and hopefully someone on this list serve has already = tackled the problem I’m having. We run our IBM systems solely to suppor= t the U.S. Air Force Jovial J73 compiler and its assorted toolset. The compiler was originally written to run on MVS but it was tweaked for us t= o run on VM in 370 mode back in the mid 1980’s. Needless to say we are = running unsupported software, in our case VM/ESA 2.3 so as a result we = aren’t running any modern big IBM iron either. My organization is considering re-hosting Jovial on some sort of Windows platform but I’d = like to keep this an IBM operation if at all possible. We also heavily use Uni= x, Linux and Windows on other platforms. To offset some of the cost of a new= system (z9 at a minimum) maybe it could do double or triple duty replacin= g some of those other platforms. Of my options, which would be the most efficient? The latest zVM with a = VM/ESA guest? The latest zOS with a VM/ESA guest? Some other combination?= Or, heaven forbid, go with re-hosting to Windows? I’m not worried about= putting myself out of a job. I’ve already retired once and am just doin= g some contractor work at the place I retired from. ;-) Thanks in advance. Karl Severson IBM VM System Administrator Raytheon Company El Segundo, California
Re: Where Do I Go From Here?
Richard:We have 370 mode in V2.3 so that's no problem. My concern is it's lack of availability in the more recent versions of zVM/CMS. That's why we would need to run a guest VM/ESA or maybe zVM 3.1 partition under the latest zVM so we could keep 370 mode. At least that's my understanding. Karl SeversonIBM VM Systems AdministratorRaytheon CompanyEl Segundo, California-The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU wrote: -To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUFrom: "Schuh, Richard" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUDate: 08/21/2008 03:12PMSubject: Re: Where Do I Go >From Here?Have you tried CP SET 370ACCOM ON and SET CMS370AC ON while running inan ESA mode machine?Regards, Richard Schuh
