Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You just can not put all of Iceland into a neat little cubical and think that all of them train the same way... But they do, Skye. Sorry, but there is very very little variation in how they train, ride, handle horses. If we were in Iceland, and only considered the trainers in Iceland, we would say, yes, we all train differently, but putting that in perspective, as compared to other countries, there is very little variation in how they train. Magnus does a few things differently. They've had Monty Roberts in, along with Dr. Deb, and Peggy Cummings; I did a few clicker clinics, so there's a few new things added to their toolbox, but still, that doesn't make them appreciably different than any other trainer in Iceland. I don't think that many people actually follow thru in using new things that they learn in clinics from foreigners. Judy Glad to see that you acknowlege that Magnus does do a few things differently..and your last line actually makes me sad about foreigners not implementing new ideas. I have been Very happy with the horses that we have purchased, some that were trained or helped be trained by Magnusthey have been light, easy to stopDreki was light as a feather, a breath would stop himand he could do a side pass at a tolt or a walk, very flexible.Baldur fra Bakka, who was trained in Iceland, is so easy to ride, light, easy to stop, VERY easy to stop and he is a world champion flying pace winner of 1999...easy stop, he was my main ride for a while and children could ride him out on the trailsso I guess it is hard for me to buy the Icelandic trainers are bad and Americans (who by the way put Chemicals on horses feet to get them to step high) are great song. Lets see what other country does that kind of thing to horses? The Always/Never thing just does not work for me or for a lot of people.. I also do not think that someone who puts on a noseband a little too snug is as bad as someone who intentionally scars a horse to win a blue ribbon in a show.the first person just might be ignorant of the horses discomfort, the later just doesn't give a damn. I know we all love these horses and we do not want to see them be treated like the legacy of gaited horses in the south, but I do not think Icelanders would either. And we might just agree to disagree, that fine...but I will never generalize that a whole country is bad, and one whole country is good...there are differences in individual people. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Parelli?
--- Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Janice But Pat Parelli and Satcie Westfall and Lynn Palm have been doing that for years and even judy on this list did it way before that guy. He probably stole it from us :) hey, we're trendsetters! yay. maybe theres some other good stuff they can learn from us! My sister Linda introduced brideless riding to Germany in about 1979 and they were astounded. They have been using it at Reken in Germany and selling the neck rings since they started teaching TTEAM in the early 80's. Linda had been teaching it for about 20 years before that and mostly got the ideas from what she did as a child and from watching lots of cowboy and Indian shows. Nothing new just recycled An example of foreigners learning a new technique and implementing it. We have a trainer here on island who goes to Germany to teach, they fly him over, pay for his trip and his time..they want to learn new things and are willing to put in the time and money to do it. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] How To Ride An Icelandic Horse
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How to Ride an Icelandic Horse Is this a joke page? Here's some info on the website: http://www.wikihow.com/Main-Page Judy Well I know I will not use that web site for any real information that I might need. Terrible. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image
I think we have to do some clean up on the image of the Icelandic Horse. Here's a post from another list: Icelandics? I have a farm close to me with 32 Icelandic Ponies. No contest in temperament in my opinion. And that's all I am saying, in my opinion. They are hotter. I also have spent many years in Sweden as my mom lives there, and many people in Northern Sweden have them. They are simply not my choice for a reliable all around pony. This is not what Betty wants to hear! To promote the breed, to sell horses, we need to clean up the image of the Icelandic Horse in the US. We, all of us here, can all love them, but if they show to outsiders in a way that gives them an I don't want that breed opinion, things need to change. All those who are out there doing demos with icelandic saddles, boots, nosebands, and whips: Stay home! Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Comparison of Trainers and Methods
I think the point has probably been missed in the comparison of trainers and methods. We are not comparing icelandic-style trainers to BL trainers, nor are we comparing not handling foals to handling foals poorly. If we do that, we are comparing bad to bad; bottom of the barrel, and which one comes out on top. What we want to do is compare icelandic-style trainers to good horsemanship trainers, and not handling foals to properly handling foals. This is so that we have higher goals to reach, rather than saying we're fine where we are since we're not doing the worse thing possible. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Re: How To Ride An Icelandic Horse
Where do you think this comes from? Genetics? Is this what we are talking about when we say there are some mentally unstable horses in this breed? I don't know where it came from - she was 7 years old, so far as I remember, imported from Iceland at 5 having been started there. I don't think kicking per se is genetic, however, I believe kicking as a response is. So one horse (or bloodline) will only kick or otherwise strike a human as a last resort, from extreme fear (as you describe the German-trained horse), and another horse (or bloodline) will have a kick first, ask questions later attitude. I think that latter type of horse is extremely rare in Icelandics, probably due to culling of horses that react that way. As an example - we graze many of our horses on moorland owned by the National Trust during the summer.The NT have a stockman, who goes around checking on the horses - the NT have a lot of land around here, and their own herd of Welsh ponies to graze it. The stockman, Rob, is always very, very wary about going anywhere near the rear ends of the Welsh ponies. All ages, from foals upwards. But he loves the Icelandics, and says he has no worries whatsoever about them kicking him. He wishes the NT would replace all the Welshies with Icelandics - not going to happen, you can get Welsh ponies (purebred, registered) for £30. That's about $50... Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Speaking out for the Horse / Let it Begin with me
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:33:29 -0500, you wrote: Let it begin with me. Have a look at this Russian guy: http://www.hauteecole.ru/en/alexander_nevzorov.php Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Parelli?
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:47:48 -0700, you wrote: It wasn't just that he rode the flying pace - I understand he rode walk, trot, canter and tolt as well if I am not mistaken. Mic was there I think. I was - he did. It was incredible, I was in tears. I think a bareback/bridleless class would be amazing, but it might get a bit exciting in the finals with more than one horse on the track! ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Nevzorov
Have a look at this Russian guy: Thanks for bringing him up, Mic, and for providing the link. Nevzorov was first mentioned on this list a few years ago, about 2005. Here's some videos of Nevzorov: http://iceryder.net/nevzorov.html According to his chart on this page, it seems like we would be working towards the goals of Nevzorov: http://www.hauteecole.ru/en/nevzorov_haute_ecole.php?sid=0id=415 Judy
Re: [IceHorses] Nevzorov
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 01:29:24 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: Thanks for bringing him up, Mic, and for providing the link. What he does with his horses is amazing. Still, I would love to see video or even photos of him riding out in the woods, or going out in a group with other horses - is it possible, for that sort of relationship to be maintained, when the horse has others of his own kind as a distraction, do you think? Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] weird trail spots
You have bears there? And I was so happy riding around at your clinic thinking Vernon was the most perfect place on earth. Darn.. ...I'm not scared of much but I hate bears One time when we visited Robyn's farm, Cary asked Christine if they have bears. She said, NO! Only in the mountains. Cary looked relieved a minute, assuming she meant the Rockies or Cascades. Then he asked which mountains, and she gestured to the ones across the road. Ok, maybe she wasn't just fooling with him then! Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
I don't think that many people actually follow thru in using new things that they learn in clinics from foreigners. Note that Judy said MANY. There was that post that someone sent in from the girl she met from the Parelli forum. Of course, she said she was widely ridiculed, but that a few people are starting to take note. I don't think anyone has said that NO ONE is different in Iceland - just that there's only one sort of older, established riding, only one type of competition and one national riding school. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Parelli?
I think it would be great if they offered a bridleless competition for Icelandics. That is really a T2 competition... Absolutely. What I've seen about the loose rein competitions has NOT been impressive - it all seems to be about macho bravado, sort of like the Icelandic drill team demo I linked to recently where there was much ado over laser lights, but the horses were breaking gait, the riders couldn't even keep their spacing even with a very simple pattern. When I've seen videos of the loose-rein tolt competitions, the riders drop their reins for a few seconds, make a huge hoop-de-doo of raising their hands like it's some never-before-seen feat, then a few strides later, they frantically grab reins as the horse breaks gait. Whoopee. In fact, in the WC pictures this year, it had dropped to an all-time low if you ask me. Now tell me: WHY should riders be allowed to go into a LOOSE-REIN TOLT class with a shanked bit and dropped noseband? If you look at riding skills on any international level, Cary and I are a couple of bumbling buffoons. Yet we can ride either Skjoni or Eitill on a very loose rein at tolt for much further (barefoot, and snaffle bit, no noseband) and we're nobody. On the far extreme, that mounted police drill on YouTube had some glitz and flash to it - but those folks can RIDE. I'm not opposed to some glitz - if there's some skill behind it, I love to see it. No way can I claim to ride like those people, and my hat is off to them. But, it's only sad to me to watch people who think they are showing off when they really aren't doing anything much special. In fact, it's a little embarrassing to watch. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Comparison of Trainers and Methods
If we do that, we are comparing bad to bad; bottom of the barrel, and which one comes out on top. Yet there are a few people on the list who always want to drag us to the lowest point for discussions - and some who can't get some basic simple geography and history facts straight before they make their arguments. I need to remember: delete, delete, delete... Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
your impression, however, does not agree with my experience of gudmar or ebba. so i suspect there is either more variation than you perceive or that your baseline is off somehow. OR...maybe some folks will tell certain gullible people what they want to hear. What? In the context of horses? Surely not! (Yep, that was sarcasm.) You might want to go back through the list archives sometime when you have nothing better to do. You can find a lot of details, in the words of many people who have more direct experience than you or me, from the words of Americans, Europeans, and Icelanders. You don't have to take Judy's word for it - the words are there from many people, so you can draw your own conclusions.To make an informed decision, you really need to listen to more than two very young people who have a vested interest in changing certain images. It's not even always a matter of right or wrong - it's simply what it is. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
I know that here on the Big island which is tiny compared to Iceland, we only have around 160,000 people living here, most of them do not own horses.however every trainer trains differently. Have you never read any history of Hawaii, Skye?I never lived there, but I read a lot of the history before we visited. You should know that Hawaii's isolation ended about 150 years ago, plus or minus. Hawaii was 'invaded' by American settlers, missionaries, as well as people from other countries. There is a sizable Chinese population, Japanese, Portugese influence, right, in addition to the Americans and native Polynesians? When I was there 20 years ago, there were mini-ranches for sale (very expensive) on the north shore of the Big Island, I'm sure attracting many American retirees, as well as people from other countries. I don't know what's happening now, but the Japanese were buying up much of Hawaii's commercial real estate then. In other words, Hawaii is its own melting pot, partly fed by the American melting pot. It's also a tropical paradise, home (or second home) to a number of wealthy Americans. Now...does that sound much like Iceland? It doesn't to me. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Skye
Does anyone else have that experience with Parelli trained horses, or is it just the people here on the island that seems to abuse that part of his teachings? Why don't you go read something about it yourself, Skye? There have been plenty of discussions on this list on the subject, pro, con, and in the middle, so you don't even have to buy anything to read the old discussions. Parelli has some free articles on their website, as do many nationally or internationally known trainers. Judy has some Parelli information on her website. Honestly, you're wearing my patience thin, Skye. Why don't you do a little reading on your own before you jump into these discussions? Google is a great tool. Make your own decisions! I don't really care if the subject is geography, history, horse training methods, Parelli, whatever, could you please do a little homework on your own before you jump in? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
Re: [IceHorses] weird trail spots
We have lots of black bears here in Southern Oregon. The horses have sort of a non-reaction to them. We worry more about the cougars. They really do seem to scare the horses and Hunter is very afraid of the occassional elk. Abby and I were out on a ride in the Spring and came across a very large sleepy looking cinnamon-colored bear . Usually they amble off the trail and disappear. Thinking back, I suspect we could have ridden past this particular bear, but we got off our horses and waved out arms and shouted. It finally moved slowly away. These bears are pretty harmless. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] More o/t - Family Portrait
They're all so cute. We have had Fergus, the Boston, and now have Sammie, a Jack Russell, and would have had an English Setter if I could have found one. Instead, I bought Katie, a field type Irish Setter. Your setters are beautiful. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] weird trail spots
Hi Wanda, We have wooded areas around here so there are bears, cougar, moose and of course lots of deer. We have only seen bear a couple of times but lots of bear scat - the other one I saw was a small one and my first thought was it was a Bouvier and quickly realized it was not. It just ran quickly across the road into the woods. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
[IceHorses] Re: Kicking
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I seriously doubt that kicking is a genetic mental defect. I just don't see that. That's what I think really, in fact kicking isn't really as aggressive as biting in a horse, that's what I've always heard. Horses kick for two reasons... they're afraid of you or they don't like you! That's the big, distasteful truth! Fearful horses kick in defense, dominant horses kick out of resentment and dominance. Either way, smacking the horse for it doesn't work. You need to get the horse to where he trusts you, likes you, respects you... and none of that is achieved through violence. I was thinking the same thing, I was going to go to the Parelli website, because there are a lot of things posted on different problems there. I was thinking about the horse who tried to kick me years ago, who I thought hated people, if he were my horse, I would start by making friends with him, when they like you, feel comfortable with you, know you, they are really less likely to kick you. First of all, stay out of the kick zone. That's always a good one:) I really do not like being anywhere in a horse's kick zone, especially one I don't know. Even with my own, I make sure they know I am there. I go right behind Zoe and pull her tail and she backs up to me, she's not going to kick me, she has kicked someone though, it was in the trailer with commotion going on (I was told) and he was standing right behind her, it's possible that she thought it was another horse, I am pretty sure she thought something scary was probably going on. She will kick out of fear. Kim
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
Hi Judy, Having bought horses and tried horses from quite a few farms in Iceland I would say that while there is definitely a strong similarity in how they train, there is a huge difference in the outcome. I don't think that many people actually follow thru in using new things that they learn in clinics from foreigners. Peggy Cummings has never been there but Susan Harris and Peggy Brown have been. Magnus looks at lots of different methods and tries to incorporate them. I am not sure that having Monty Roberts there is a bonus, personally and yet he has had a huge influence in the training methods. At Holar they teach the round pen to start horses and that came from him. But they do, Skye. Sorry, but there is very very little variation in how they train, ride, handle horses. I know what you mean by the training, being similar but what about the huge variety in NH training methods that all go under the same umbrella, they have the same basic philosophy and methods but from what I have seen and experienced in the horses response it is clearly different. So why can those methods all be lumped as acceptable but none from Iceland? While I have seen lots of things I don't like in Iceland - I have also had older trainers come over and give 'heck' to younger trainers for things they didn't like such as a horse I was trying (nearly 20 years ago granted) that must have gotten his tongue over the bit and the trainer had a strap holding the tongue down (not unlike what they do with Standardbreds on the track). The older trainer walked over took the strap off the horse and threw it on the ground, berating the younger trainer in Icelandic about what a terrible thing that was to do with a horse. I think that takes some guts and is looking to be an advocate for the horse. And while I am sure it happened there are some things I have never seen in Iceland or from Icelandic trainers - I have never seen them get into a horse' the way I have seen some trainers at expos - shaking a rope to run them backwards every time a horse makes a mistake, running them in circles until they come to the person, repetitively lying a horse down (for 45 minutes) to prepare for a 'show'. Judy, I definitely appreciate your continued advocacy for horses and feel that you have a lot more openness to accepting what US trainers do than anything an Icelandic trainer could do. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
[IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The older trainer walked over took the strap off the horse and threw it on the ground, berating the younger trainer in Icelandic about what a terrible thing that was to do with a horse. I think that takes some guts and is looking to be an advocate for the horse. I can imagine that, I knew older people like that when I was young, older cowboy types, who didn't believe in harsh bits, who stopped people from yanking on horse's mouths, who believed in giving the horse a chance. In my mind, the Iceland that we are connected to here is very competition oriented, they are the ones in the spotlight, that can make a big difference, the horse's welfare gets pushed aside, winning and selling horses at any cost comes to the forefront. I think there is a market for trail horses here though. I only took Dari on a couple of rides in Daniel Boone National Forest, I clearly remember a group of men admiring him and saying that he thought his wife would ride a pony like Dari, probably a middle aged woman, afraid of horses:) Dari is very good. Kim
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
- Original Message - From: Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Judy, I definitely appreciate your continued advocacy for horses and feel that you have a lot more openness to accepting what US trainers do than anything an Icelandic trainer could do. Hi Robyn, These are my sentiments, too. I've ridden with maybe a half dozen Icelandic trainers and they were very different in style. Three or four of them I would definitely consider to be good horsemen, who know and follow the principles of good training. As a clicker trainer, I've learned to focus on the positive and ignore what I don't want. It may make the list a little more boring, but in the long run, I think it is a more effective way to change the world. Mary
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
Hi Kim I can imagine that, I knew older people like that when I was young, older cowboy types, who didn't believe in harsh bits, who stopped people from yanking on horse's mouths, who believed in giving the horse a chance. There have always been those people in the horse world, haven't there. That is one reason I found Monty Roberts tirade that horse training had always been so harsh until he came along. There have always been some people who are excessively rough and those who were not - comes down to what they knew and how they wanted to treat horses. The old Xenophen saying - When knowledge ends, violence begins I think there is a market for trail horses here though. No question about that and not just in N.A. - it is true in every country that the majority of people buy horses to have pleasure horses. That has always been our focus even though we did some showing. Mostly so we could show people that you could still show and not be so hard on horses. I have never bought a saddle from Iceland although I did buy some German saddles for Icelandic but chose their xwide which were better at the time but still not wide enough IMO. Nice to have a horse like Dari that is such a good ambassador for the breed. He's from Judy Pittman isn't he? We have gotten some nice young horses from her that have been easy to train with easy gaits. In my mind, the Iceland that we are connected to here is very competition oriented, they are the ones in the spotlight, that can make a big difference, the horse's welfare gets pushed aside, winning and selling horses I think that is definitely true. One of the challenges is that it is those horses that bring a bigger price and in some cases keep breeders afloat. So many people think the horses are too expensive but when you take into account the cost of raising a horse - most breeders don't make money. If you are part of the horse industry - selling goods and services - you can make money but certainly not in breeding and selling horses. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
How true, Robyn, what you say about breesing and selling horses. We have never been breeders - ever - but I used to support my horse habit by buying an occassional horse off the track, schooling him for dressage or three-day or whatever he was good at in those disciplines. My most successful purchase was an ex race horse that I had the fun of training and trail riding and showing for a few years before I sold him for five times what I had paid for him. I figured up my profit. It came to 50 cents an hour. I could make an awful lot more doing accounting - my real job at the time. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Parelli?
Hi Mic, I was - he did. It was incredible, I was in tears. I think a bareback/bridleless class would be amazing, but it might get a bit exciting in the finals with more than one horse on the track! ; ) That would be very interesting : )) but maybe it could be just judged on the initial individual score. It would certainly add another aspect and I don't think the class would be very large, at least to start with. Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
[IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice to have a horse like Dari that is such a good ambassador for the breed. He's from Judy Pittman isn't he? We have gotten some nice young horses from her that have been easy to train with easy gaits. Dari is from Elizabeth Haug. Snorri is from Judy Pittman. I think Snorri is just as nice as Dari though, Snorri is more laterally gaited though. I think you had Snorri's full brother up there, Kapfteinn? Kim
RE: [IceHorses] More o/t - Family Portrait
They're all so cute. We have had Fergus, the Boston, and now have Sammie, a Jack Russell, and would have had an English Setter if I could have found one. Instead, I bought Katie, a field type Irish Setter. Your setters are beautiful. Thanks, I think so, but I'm biased. Both of the setters were throwaway - no clue who owned them previously. Someone found the JRT, and advertised for her, but no one ever claimed her. And I just told the story of the pug puppy. The Boston was the last puppy we had, and may be the last dog we'll ever buy. It's hard to tell by looking at this crew that they are all variations of rescues. The husband, btw, is a one-owner model, never thrown away. I've paid dearly for him over the past 32 years, but he's been worth it. He was a mere 20 years old when I married the young pup. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All those who are out there doing demos with icelandic saddles, boots, nosebands, and whips: Stay home! The girl that had Dagur used a crop because he was hard to get out of the stable. Who is Betty?? Lorraine Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
[IceHorses] horses are stupid-not
What do you say to a non horse person the tells you horses are stupid? I think it is an ignorant comment myself. Lorraine Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] More o/t - Family Portrait
Oh gosh- I got mine at 19. They train better when started young, I believe. Our Sammie (JRT) is a rescue and so is Bud, the 2 year old chocolate lab. I was driving up a dirt road by myself to get to a trailhead I wanted to clean on foot and came across this big lab puppy lying in the road. He followed to where I was going to park, stayed with me while I cleaned trail and drank water out of my cupped hands when I returned to my van. I called Bruce and said, I've found a big puppy ... He started to say no, but when I mentioned it was about a year old chocolate lab, he agreed that Bud should come on home. We had lost two almost 16 year old black labs in the previous months. Bud had worn a coller - we could see the marks - but he was not wearing it that day. We advertised in two newspapers, on two radio stations, called two county animal control, posted signs and had out vet check for tattoo and/or microchip. There was nothing and no one responded. This very nice and very needy young dog had been dumped on the road on the opening day of upland bird season. It still makes me angry. We love him so much that the next year I purchased Hank, another chocolate lab for myself. Bud is Bruce's pal. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 10:04:45PM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote: you always see indians in movies riding bareback but I have held Indian hand carved and well worn wooden stirrups... they were really large btw... like EZ rides only wooden and instead of neoprene to absorb shock they had wrapped leather hide. now *that* is clever engineering. very cool! do you happen to know what nation they came from? --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 08:26:30PM -0700, Judy Ryder wrote: I have to trust my own eyes, my own first-hand experiences, and my long-term equine experience, over yours. Sorry. and i have to trust mine over yours. sorry. I'm not so sure that a beginner and new owner can see other than a superficial layer. i'm neither a beginner horsewoman nor, after a year, a new owner. my experience is more current than yours; i speak, on average, to two icelanders (ebba in person and another friend/colleague over the net) every week. Especially when that person is vested in who they are expressing an opinion about. and how exactly am i vested in either of them? one i bought a horse from a year ago; the other is my current choice (among some arbitrary number available; i've had half a dozen others) of instructors. But... tell me HOW you see that they are different than any other icelandic-style trainer in how they train and ride. they fail to conform to your script: . tack -- both are concerned with saddle fit, use snaffles, and don't use tight nosebands . riding -- both are quiet riders as i've seen them in real life . priorities -- both prioritize, or at least support me in prioritizing, a quiet, sane horse, not a hypersensitive one (and if you insist that gudmar must prioritize the latter b/c of the horses you see him on in videos, i should point out that he *trained* stjarni, and several of the horses for sale on his site are described in similar calm, anyone can ride terms -- and because i have stjarni as an example, i find this claim entirely believable) . preference for a centered riding-type seat for the rider . emphasizing flexibility and suppleness for the horse . concern for the horse as a living, sensitive, emotional creature in fact i've never met any icelanders who *do* conform to your script, although i am polite enough to presume you're not making it up out of whole cloth and video, as representative of your average horseperson from iceland as a rodeo show would be of your average american. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 08:36:02AM -0400, Karen Thomas wrote: To make an informed decision, you really need to listen to more than two very young people who have a vested interest in changing certain images. erm. gudmar is quite young; i think ebba is aroud forty, though i haven't asked her exact age. but she's not a very young person. for that matter, if they are the new wave of icelandic horse people, aren't they the very ones we should be watching? or do you think it's still fair to judge american riding by say the fashions of the 1970's? --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] horses are stupid-not
What do you say to a non horse person the tells you horses are stupid? That they are much smarter than any human that thinks they're stupid, b/c: they are smart enough to stay away from that person if they are unwilling to be caught; they might buck the person off if the person is abusing them while riding; they have a difficult time crossing water b/c of how their vision is (tri-ocular, w/ the eyes working independently, so their depth perception is not the best--ie, they can't tell if a shallow puddle is 10 feet deep or 2 inches)--their vision is meant for them to see danger far away; that they are a prey animal and their instinct is to flee first and turn around and look at a scary thing when they feel safe enough; they might refuse a jump b/c they don't feel confident or they dont' feel that their rider is confident enough; and that they are so incredibly sensitive that they can sense anger, fear, resentment, etc easily in a person, and so would rather not be around that person. That's my take on it. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
i'm neither a beginner horsewoman nor, after a year, a new owner. Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I believe I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15 years, and having ridden for over 30. I'd suspect Judy is a bit more knowledgeable than you about Icelandics as well, since she has owned and ridden horses since her childhood, and has apparently visited Iceland on a number of occasions. Is that correct, Judy? Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] More o/t - Family Portrait
The husband, btw, is a one-owner model, never thrown away. I've paid dearly for him over the past 32 years, but he's been worth it. He was a mere 20 years old when I married the young pup. Good for you! Mine is an original owner too. Americans throw too much away these days. Robyn S
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
Hi Kim I think you had Snorri's full brother up there, Kapfteinn? Yes we did have him. He is a really nice guy. Very easy to train, very soft gaits. He is a little low set in front but was better as he was ridden. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image
Hi Lorraine, The girl that had Dagur used a crop because he was hard to get out of the stable We carry a stick when we ride, doesn't mean we whip them but giving a tap on the shoulder is better than excessive use of leg or wearing spurs IMO. What is the problem with carrying a stick, crop, whip??? Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com . Who is Betty?? Lorraine Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [IceHorses] More o/t - Family Portrait
Hi Karen, The husband, btw, is a one-owner model, never thrown away. I've paid dearly for him over the past 32 years, but he's been worth it. He was a mere 20 years old when I married the young pup. Cary is definitely a keeper, mine too. And we just celebrated 32 years as well. Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Speaking out for the Horse / Let it Begin with me
Have a look at this Russian guy: http://www.hauteecole.ru/en/alexander_nevzorov.php Very interesting Mic! I particularly like: parasitizing on physical abilities of another living being which does not want to be engaged in this sport but forced to it by pain and beating. So why the hell we call it a sport? Amazingly well-said! I put him up w/ Klaus Hempfling. Robyn S
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
i'm neither a beginner horsewoman nor, after a year, a new owner. Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I believe I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15 years, and having ridden for over 30. That's kind of my thinking too, Robyn! Gosh, when I joined the lists, I felt like a newbie (still do sometimes!) because I'd only owned horses for 15 years at the time. It was downright amusing to see how many lectures I got about how I should educate myself because I'd only had Icelandic's a couple of years. What was sooo funny about it was that I went and looked at the websites of many of the ones who were lecturing me. I remember one had only owned horses about 5 years, and the rest for less than 10. I still feel like a newbie sometimes because I hang around with people who've had horses maybe 25, 30, or 50+ years, compared to my only 19 years. I like hanging out with folks that have seen more than I have though - it helps keep me from getting complacent. I think it took me about 5 years to even feel like the green was wearing off of the green newbie so I could only be a plain old newbie. And I've heard so many people say that when they owned horses that they boarded, they had a whole 'nuther wave of being a newbie to go through once they brought their horse home. Dealing with ALL the decisions of horse ownership often doesn't hit home until you are forced to make ALL of the decisions. I pity anyone who feels like they are experienced after only a year. How can you learn, if you don't know what you don't know...? It also puts the arguments of such a person into perspective. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:06:07 -0400, you wrote: Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I believe I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15 years, and having ridden for over 30. This made me think I've ridden for 39 years, owned horses for 34 years, and Icelandics for 21. Been to Iceland 14 times (longest stay 3 months). Bred over 30 foals (the oldest is now 18). Imported over 40 Icelandics I FEEL OLD!!! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
And I've heard so many people say that when they owned horses that they boarded, they had a whole 'nuther wave of being a newbie to go through once they brought their horse home. Dealing with ALL the decisions of horse ownership often doesn't hit home until you are forced to make ALL of the decisions. EXACTLY! Boarding vs. keeping a horse at your own place are two entirely different ownership issues. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
We carry a stick when we ride, doesn't mean we whip them but giving a tap on the shoulder is better than excessive use of leg or wearing spurs IMO. What is the problem with carrying a stick, crop, whip??? The problem is when it is used as a punishment (see Nevzorov's note about whips) and the horse is afraid of it. Boy, Ljufur was SO afraid of a whip. He would shake. The whites of his eyes would show. He would veer around the icelandic trainer holding a crop in the arena. The damage that can be done, life-long, to a horse from indiscriminate use of the whip, is abusive. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
Hi Judy, The problem is when it is used as a punishment (see Nevzorov's note about whips) and the horse is afraid of it. But lots of things can be used as punishment if used in the wrong way. A bitless bridle, barefoot trimming - doesn't mean you have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Boy, Ljufur was SO afraid of a whip. He would shake. The whites of his eyes would show. He would veer around the icelandic trainer holding a crop in the arena. I have seen that and think is so unnecessary and unfair. We had a young mare come here who was terrified of the whip and if you brought it near her legs to stroke her she would fold her front legs to lie down. Her ears were also untouchable. That is very different now - she is relaxed about the wand and also her ears being stroked. The damage that can be done, life-long, to a horse from indiscriminate use of the whip, is abusive I have definitely had horses that were afraid of the whip, terrified as a matter of fact, but we have been able to get all of them over it as long as it was never used to punish but rather to signal. I have met young horses who have never had a whip used on them who were very afraid of it to start with. It is the difference between fear of the known and fear of the unknown. . Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
On 9/3/07, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We carry a stick when we ride, doesn't mean we whip them but giving a tap on the shoulder is better than excessive use of leg or wearing spurs IMO. What is the problem with carrying a stick, crop, whip??? The problem is when it is used as a punishment (see Nevzorov's note about whips) and the horse is afraid of it. I agree. And let's face it, many people who use a crop or a whip don't use it as a cueing tool. They use it to smack the crap out of the horse until he goes. I've been guilty of the latter in the distant past. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
On 03/09/07, Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Boy, Ljufur was SO afraid of a whip. He would shake. The whites of his eyes would show. He would veer around the icelandic trainer holding a crop in the arena. Hreggur actually spooked in the ring once when I was taking him in to unsaddle him. He saw it laying where I had left it...and he jumped sideways when he saw it on the ground. I have definitely had horses that were afraid of the whip, terrified as a matter of fact, but we have been able to get all of them over it as long as it was never used to punish but rather to signal. That's great in theory, but there is always going to be someone that uses it for punishment. Same with the nosebands...there is always going to be someone that's afraid to ride and so tightens down that noseband as tight as it will go... I have met young horses who have never had a whip used on them who were very afraid of it to start with. It is the difference between fear of the known and fear of the unknown. Dagur is that way, and he's never even had a harsh word spoken to himeven when he's on the front lawn after he's jumped every fence in sight. When Kevin was ground driving him, Kevin likes to use the whip to signal to him or rub his sides and tell him he's a good boy. However, it was too much too soon for Dagur. He was SO focused on the whip that Kevin finally just set it down and did his best with voice commands. I doubt we will ever use Dagur as a driving horse but who knows. His fear of the whip is something I would like him to overcome if he can, we just haven't worked enough with him lately to work through it. Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know that here on the Big island which is tiny compared to Iceland, we only have around 160,000 people living here, most of them do not own horses.however every trainer trains differently. Have you never read any history of Hawaii, Skye?I never lived there, but I read a lot of the history before we visited. You should know that Hawaii's isolation ended about 150 years ago, plus or minus. Hawaii was 'invaded' by American settlers, missionaries, as well as people from other countries. There is a sizable Chinese population, Japanese, Portugese influence, right, in addition to the Americans and native Polynesians? When I was there 20 years ago, there were mini-ranches for sale (very expensive) on the north shore of the Big Island, I'm sure attracting many American retirees, as well as people from other countries. I don't know what's happening now, but the Japanese were buying up much of Hawaii's commercial real estate then. In other words, Hawaii is its own melting pot, partly fed by the American melting pot. It's also a tropical paradise, home (or second home) to a number of wealthy Americans. Now...does that sound much like Iceland? It doesn't to me. Karen Thomas, NC Karen~ I think we are just misunderstanding each other with these emailsI am not saying that Hawaii and Iceland are similar.I was only talking about hawaii, as what I know that with a small amount of people, there are s many different trainers and each has a different method, most of which I do not approve ofI am picky, as I am sure you are. And We had to take Hawaiian studies in High School during my 11th and 12 grade year hereI graduated Kaleheo High in Kailua back in 82. I just hate homogonizing any cultureIcelandic, Japanese...Chinese, whatever.. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Horseman or Horse Owner
Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I believe I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15 years, and having ridden for over 30. This made me think I've ridden for 39 years, owned horses for 34 years, and Icelandics for 21. Been to Iceland 14 times (longest stay 3 months). Bred over 30 foals (the oldest is now 18). Imported over 40 Icelandics I FEEL OLD!!! We're all getting older! :-) But seriously, length of time of owning horses is not an indication of being a horseman. People can own horses all their lives and end up only being a horse owner. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Newbie Owners
I had a pony as a kid, who taught me nothing except how to stay on as she bolted through the barn door, under the clothesline or against a barbwire fence. I knew nothing about horses then. Heck...I don't even recall deworming her. No wonder she was crabby...She just taught me how to stay on her. Then I had a break and didn't get back into horses until I was in my late 30's. My early riding experiences trained me well, especially when it came to Hreggur. When Hreggur bolted through the trees I initially found myself hanging halfway off him and I somehow managed to right myself and the saddle and continued riding until he had tired himself out. That old guy taught me much more than an easy guy would have though. He had so many health issues that needed to be addressed and solved that I was constantly googling or reading Judy's list trying to determine what was going on with him. I realize now that his bolting was probably as a result of pain issues. So when I see someone with a narrow saddle sitting on that freaking cantle...well...I know where that horse will be down the road...and there will be some poor schmuck like me trying to rehab him and bring those atrophied muscles back into play... ...anyway... After all this time, and all this research on backs, legs, feet, eyes, feed, my hands, poor riding styles, poor fitting saddles, saddles that actually fit, nosebands, bits, absesses, puncture wounds, fencing, treeless saddles, gullets, training babies, worms...and don't forget GAITS...and I still feel I haven't even scratched the surface. I think I'll always be a newbieand I am beginning to not mind it. There is always something new that I'm interested in knowing about. Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
I would like to see more pics of people riding from the side so I could tell if they were cantle sitting or not. That's one of my huge pet peeves.. You said it, Wanda - mine too. Riding with legs straight under you is not balanced riding if your butt is on the cantle. The rider is supposed to be in balance within the confines of his own body, but also in balance with the horse...and that includes making sure his weight is in the right spot to move with the horse. If you're cantle-sitting, you ain't balanced! Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
RE: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com I have definitely had horses that were afraid of the whip, terrified as a matter of fact, but we have been able to get all of them over it as long as it was never used to punish but rather to signal. That's great in theory, but there is always going to be someone that uses it for punishment. Same with the nosebands...there is always going to be someone that's afraid to ride and so tightens down that noseband as tight as it will go... It's more than theory, it is how we use it so that is my experience. Rope halters can be used to punish because the knots are put on nerve points so going along with that theory they should never be used. I doubt we will ever use Dagur as a driving horse but who knows. His fear of the whip is something I would like him to overcome if he can, we just haven't worked enough with him lately to work through it. Have you tried the clicker? I have used that with great success with horses afraid of a whip. I feel as though if a horse overcomes the fear of one thing it can help them overcome the fear of other things. Just like Janice wants to do with Tivar regarding fly spray, to make his life easier should he go somewhere else. Or if other people are riding with a whip I find that can scare a horse so I like to get them over it. I guess we all have different priorities that we feel are important. Robyn
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Icelandic Ponies
While I have seen lots of things I don't like in Iceland - I have also had older trainers come over and give 'heck' to younger trainers for things they didn't like such as a horse I was trying (nearly 20 years ago granted) that must have gotten his tongue over the bit and the trainer had a strap holding the tongue down (not unlike what they do with Standardbreds on the track). The older trainer walked over took the strap off the horse and threw it on the ground, berating the younger trainer in Icelandic about what a terrible thing that was to do with a horse. I think that takes some guts and is looking to be an advocate for the horse. Good for them! What happened to these guys? What happened to their style of riding and training? Why wasn't it passed down, instead of being passed over by the current stuff? Do you remember the video of the young Icelanders trying to do Monty Roberts' training... yanking a newly started horse around the roundpen, from the ground, while he has a rider on him? And while I am sure it happened there are some things I have never seen in Iceland or from Icelandic trainers - I have never seen them get into a horse' the way I have seen some trainers at expos - shaking a rope to run Well, I think we're dealing with the fact that these are PONIES and not only that, but generally CALM ponies. and pretty STOIC calm ponies. It's a whole 'nother scenario! What would an icelandic-style rider and trainer do with a big horse? Look at the Feldmann videos... he has to have one or two people hold the horse for him to get on it. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Riding Styles / Snaffles / Icelandic Bit
Using a western curb bit does not mean that you are riding western. There's more to the discipline than the tack. Using a snaffle does not mean you are riding or practicing english style. Snaffles, single-joined, can cause a lot of harm to a horse, especially those who have low palates, which Icelandics tend to have. What about the icelandic bit? Is there anything comparable in english riding, or classical riding, to the icelandic bit? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Betty
Who is Betty?? You can read the thread about Betty here: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/message/105378 Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Gudmar
Do I really NEED to post the links to the same pictures we posted maybe three months ago? Yes, that would be interesting. Isn't there a video of him doing what he called a dressage demo at EA? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] old photos
They're wonderful. Thanks for posting. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Horsemanship
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:55:56 -0700, you wrote: Did Bruno start riding bareback and bridleless because he saw LTJ do it? He did it because he has a good relationship with his horse. He started after it was presented on the list. He doesn't even speak English Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Horsemanship
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:55:56 -0700, you wrote: (not that he did anything functional except ride the horse in a straight line, on a closed track BTW why isn't there any video of that ride? odd that the WC was video'd, but there's no video of Bruno?). That's another myth in the making. Before heading onto the oval track he spent about 15 minutes in the centre doing a dressage-type display. He was part of the gala show, not the WC itself, so I assume was not on video of the competition. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Horseman or Horse Owner
People can own horses all their lives and end up only being a horse owner. Oh, thanks for that Judy. You have never seen my horses, or me riding in person. You are not qualified to make that judgement. I'm now wondering why the hell I bothered participating in this list again. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
Mic: Redneck? I don't think so, unless rednecks usually ride in a centered, balanced Classical position... Karen: Do I really NEED to post the links to the same pictures we posted maybe three months ago? Judy: Yes, that would be interesting. Ok, Judy, here are a few. These are some classical-redneck pictures...but not Classical Riding: Butt hovering above and BEHIND the cantle: http://www.icyhorse.smugmug.com/gallery/3008612#163338201 (yeehaw.) Overbent, cantle-sitting, braced rider: http://www.icyhorse.smugmug.com/gallery/3008612/1/163293874/Medium Chair-sitting, cantle-sitting: http://www.icyhorse.smugmug.com/gallery/3008612/1/163336644/Medium Chair-sitting, able to slide off the horse's rump: http://www.icyhorse.smugmug.com/gallery/3008612/1/163286598/Medium Ok, here's a link for many pictures from that event. http://www.icyhorse.smugmug.com/gallery/3008612 This event was in June of this year. Can you show me one that where he's in a centered, balanced Classical position? Remember, if he's on the cantle, he ain't centered! And I didn't really even go into the skiing off the reins, the horses with open mouths, the braced arms and shoulders of the rider... I'm sorry, but the new wave of Icelandic riding looks a heck of a lot like the same-old, same-old to me. Gudmar is always THE name we hear as the best example of Icelander riding...sorry, I'm perfectly capable of riding poorly on my own, without paying to learn how. When I pay, I want to have help becoming a better rider. (Is that really a novel idea?) Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Skye
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone else have that experience with Parelli trained horses, or is it just the people here on the island that seems to abuse that part of his teachings? Why don't you go read something about it yourself, Skye? There have been plenty of discussions on this list on the subject, pro, con, and in the middle, so you don't even have to buy anything to read the old discussions. Parelli has some free articles on their website, as do many nationally or internationally known trainers. Judy has some Parelli information on her website. Honestly, you're wearing my patience thin, Skye. Why don't you do a little reading on your own before you jump into these discussions? Google is a great tool. Make your own decisions! I don't really care if the subject is geography, history, horse training methods, Parelli, whatever, could you please do a little homework on your own before you jump in? Karen Thomas, NC I do make my own decisions. I was asking about experiences, which I could only have by living and doing horse things on the mainland. I am not a Parelli fan, talk about glitz and a rehash of basic concepts that other trainers talk about, not new concepts. I have had students that have purchased the Parelli package, I have watched his dvds...so I have done some reading/watching on the subject...I was asking a question.I asked in a Nice and thoughtful wayI would like to know really.. And the comments about geography and such, I know where countries are, you just misread, and side passed the issue, which is Basic. Putting All Icelandic trainers into one cateogory of Evil tight nosebands, incorrect saddle fitting, never touch a foal etc etc trainers just is not fair or accurate.. If people are to truely listen to you and learn these great concepts of treating our horses better, its good not to come at it from tearing a whole country downtearing someone else down does not elevate oneself. So if anyone actually could keep to the subject at hand, about the Parelli question, I would love to hear it...I can not just drive to your neck of the woods and go to a Parelli clinic.. Sometimes, emails do not come across like you want and the conversation is not as fluid and easy as one would hope. People misread, and Assume things that the writer did not intend...lets try and give each other some benefit of the doubt.and not assume that the person has not read or doesn't know about geography or training methods.. I believe that Icelanders have something to teach us.I believe that of most people.I try not to brush them off or think they might not know something just based on where they live or their gender or age.etc.From the training methods used in Iceland I like the way that they start horses much later than I believe the majority of Americans..I like the way Americans are going towards more natural horsemanship methods.I think we all can learn from each other.. We went to clinics all the time in Washington.we do not get that choice now here, Linda does one from time to timeand Dr. Miller comes in once in awhile...Buck, but so much of it is focused on Western...Dr. Miller of course a lot of his stuff is focused on foals.anyway, so I read a lot now, I should own stock in Amazon.com and Borders... Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
RE: [IceHorses] Skye
I do make my own decisions. I was asking about experiences, which I could only have by living and doing horse things on the mainland. I am not a Parelli fan, talk about glitz and a rehash of basic concepts that other trainers talk about, not new concepts. Wait...? And just this morning you said you didn't know anything about it...? I just have trouble following you, Skye, I REALLY do. Are you intentionally being a troll? Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Gudmar
Isn't there a video of him doing what he called a dressage demo at EA? I saw a private one that someone (can't remember who) made, but I don't know of a publicly available one. Let's just say he was saying one thing and doing another. I wasn't impressed. He is a kid when it comes to dressage, and it showed badly. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Horseman or Horse Owner
Oh, thanks for that Judy. You have never seen my horses, or me riding in person. You are not qualified to make that judgement. Was that directed at you, Mic? I just thought she was making a point to counter what someone else said, claiming to be experienced after owning and boarding a horse for a year. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Bruno
Before heading onto the oval track he spent about 15 minutes in the centre doing a dressage-type display. I would love to see it! Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
Does anyone else have that experience with Parelli trained horses, or is it just the people here on the island that seems to abuse that part of his teachings? I think the Parelli Natural Horsemanship is good, and doubly good when paired up with clicker training, as there is no need, as people have found, to go to swinging ropes in the horses' faces. So, look at the method, and not at the people who are using it. It's very good and very kind to Icelandic Horses who are willing, and into learning. It might not be so good for the nervous Icelandics unless really done slowly, with lots of use of click and reward for small tries. It helps the owners become horsemen. There's a whole *understanding* thing that goes on. The try is very important. The glitz and stuff... ignore that. Don't let that stand in the way of using something that works well. Have you tried the Seven Games? http://iceryder.net/7games.html If you learn how to do it well, you may be able to help the people over there who may be mis-using it. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 14:26:29 -0400, you wrote: Ok, Judy, here are a few. These are some classical-redneck pictures...but not Classical Riding: But even you have to agree that on his website, his position is good. How many teachers do you know who are crap at doing, but great at teaching? I know one hell of a lot, and I think that's where Gudmar is. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Horseman or Horse Owner
I think you read something into it, Mic, that wasn't there. Did I? Your reply to my comment about owning horses for 34 years was length of time of owning horses is not an indication of being a horseman. Please tell me how I misread it. The comment in full: People can own horses all their lives and end up only being a horse owner. This made me think I've ridden for 39 years, owned horses for 34 years, and Icelandics for 21. Been to Iceland 14 times (longest stay 3 months). Bred over 30 foals (the oldest is now 18). Imported over 40 Icelandics I FEEL OLD!!! We're all getting older! :-) But seriously, length of time of owning horses is not an indication of being a horseman. People can own horses all their lives and end up only being a horse owner. Judy Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
Have you tried the clicker? Not yet. But I will. I want to take my time with him and work through this. I guess we all have different priorities that we feel are important. But discussion about various issues is good. There have been times when someone else's priority became MY priority due to circumstances I was experiencing at the time. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Nevzorov / Learning About Good Horsemanship
http://iceryder.net/nevzorov.html Oh my God. I just watched the beginning of the first video. I am crying. It's very moving. Things like this keep us and this list moving towards a better direction, for the benefit of the horse. For those who want to complain or support icelandic-style riding and training, perhaps you would enjoy the list dedicated to that end, more than this educational list, and learning about horsemanship. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Skye
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do make my own decisions. I was asking about experiences, which I could only have by living and doing horse things on the mainland. I am not a Parelli fan, talk about glitz and a rehash of basic concepts that other trainers talk about, not new concepts. Wait...? And just this morning you said you didn't know anything about it...? I just have trouble following you, Skye, I REALLY do. Are you intentionally being a troll? Karen Thomas Are you intentionally being a brick wall..? I do not know a lot about Parelli because I do not subject my horses to those methods. I have only read and watched videos, I have not implemented them. So Therefore I feel I do not know a lot about Parelli because he is not my NH Guru..I only feel like I really know something if I read about it and actually do it. So that is why I am asking the question, one you, and no other Parelli loving person here has the Kahones to answer. Do not call me names again Karen-You did cross the line as far as I am concerned. I am not trying to get into an argument, but it seems like if anyone asks a question and Parelli might not come off looking like a God, or the question might make an Icelanic Trainer look good for an instant...then some people here go to insults like calling people Trolls. S~ Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
So, look at the method, and not at the people who are using it. I think this is the biggest problem w/ Parelli's method--that so few people have the cash to actually work WITH Pat Parelli. I've taken lessons with several Parelli trainers that are VERY different in their interpretations of the method. I think it can get so watered down that students are taught the wrong thing. Let's face it--there's only so much that you can learn from books and videos--there is no one there to correct you if you are doing it wrong/too hard/too much/too fast. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 09:48:44AM -0600, Robyn Schulze wrote: i'm neither a beginner horsewoman nor, after a year, a new owner. Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I believe I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15 years, and having ridden for over 30. I'd suspect Judy is a bit more knowledgeable than you about Icelandics as well, since she has owned and ridden horses since her childhood, and has apparently visited Iceland on a number of occasions. Is that correct, Judy? i also owned and rode horses as a child and teen; i'm a recycled rider after twenty years between. sum toto i have about ten years of riding behind me, and four of owning, one of which is owning stjarni. i've also served a formal instructor's apprenticeship and passed a state licensure exam. anybody can come along and say well you haven't done it as long as this other person. you haven't owned horses as long as gudmar has, for instance. but you know, so what? i still exist, the stuff i say is still true, and declaring me a new horse owner is going the ad hominem route. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 01:28:47PM -0400, Karen Thomas wrote: http://www.gudmar.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=categorysectionid=8 id=26Itemid=53 Yeah, and a person can put whatever they want on their own website. How the person actually rides is sometimes quite another. Unless he rides like I like when he's in competition, I could care less what he puts on his website. that's odd, you'd think what a person put on their own website would be the best demonstration of their values and priorities. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 10:55:12AM -0600, Robyn Schulze wrote: And I've heard so many people say that when they owned horses that they boarded, they had a whole 'nuther wave of being a newbie to go through once they brought their horse home. Dealing with ALL the decisions of horse ownership often doesn't hit home until you are forced to make ALL of the decisions. EXACTLY! Boarding vs. keeping a horse at your own place are two entirely different ownership issues. *shrug* i've done both; i was in 4-h horse project as a kid with a horse in my back yard, and i board stjarni. the backyard version was more labor-intensive, but also easier in a way, in that i had constant awareness of what was going on, none of the your horse is lame notes left on the whiteboard, or not knowing where my horse has been turned out or with whom, or any of the other irritations that come with boarding. (that said, i should mention that i really like my current barn and think very highly of the barn owner; it's just the way boarding is.) --vicka
[IceHorses] Horse Ball
Not sure what kind of horses these are (maybe Icelandics?), but an interesting video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=BlPMXtihXJQ Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Mic / Horseman
I think you read something into it, Mic, that wasn't there. Did I? Your reply to my comment about owning horses for 34 years was length of time of owning horses is not an indication of being a horseman. Please tell me how I misread it. The comment in full: People can own horses all their lives and end up only being a horse owner. This made me think I've ridden for 39 years, owned horses for 34 years, and Icelandics for 21. Been to Iceland 14 times (longest stay 3 months). Bred over 30 foals (the oldest is now 18). Imported over 40 Icelandics I FEEL OLD!!! We're all getting older! :-) But seriously, length of time of owning horses is not an indication of being a horseman. People can own horses all their lives and end up only being a horse owner. I left it all in there, Mic, so we can look at it together. The comment had nothing to do with you personally. You didn't claim to be a horseman, and I didn't address the comment to you. It's a general comment about the topic of horsemanship, which we were discussing in several threads. I've seen very few pictures of you riding, and no videos, so I wouldn't know. My apologies to you if it was taken wrong. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Icelandic Ponies
Hi Judy, What would an icelandic-style rider and trainer do with a big horse? Actually we had two young trainers - male and female here about 12 years ago they were also at my sister Susan's farm when she was in Ontario. At the time Susan was riding at the Royal Winter Fair and one of the riders was Hugh Graham who is a jumper rider for the Canadian jumping team. The two were looking for winter work and he hired them to help take care of and school his horses. They worked for him for 2 or 3 months and he found them to be really good with the horses - riding and otherwise and good workers. So I don't know but I agree a lot can be done with the Icelandics because of their general nature and tractability. However, I find that the majority breeds that I work with are reasonable if you are reasonable with them and I don't see any reason to get after any horse the way I have seen it with clinician many people consider to be good horseman. Look at the Feldmann videos... he has to have one or two people hold the horse for him to get on it. Horrifying to watch what he considers acceptable riding and training of horses. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Ball
Hi Judy, Interesting video, they are fjords. robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Ball
Interesting video, they are fjords. Thanks! Here's a self-stimulating horse with a ball :-) http://youtube.com/watch?v=P2h68zkSnBc Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Control and Smart or Dumb Horses
This is an interesting article; how much does control of your horse result in his being smart or dumb? http://horsesforlife.com/DressageHorsesAreDumb/ Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Control vs Respect
Erica wrote an article entitled Control vs Respect: http://www.awarenessinriding.com/blog/archives/81 Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Mic / Horseman
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:47:50 -0700, you wrote: I've seen very few pictures of you riding, and no videos, so I wouldn't know. That's because I always to my best to be on the driving side of the camera! My apologies to you if it was taken wrong. Apology accepted. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Necks
What do we know about necks so far? Well, we haven't exactly talked about this before, but I did send in a picture of Svertla's neck. I feel sure that Svertla's neck is long enough to help her get a running walk going. Does the length of the neck really help a horse do one gait over another? Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
... and I both keep horses at home and board. I think it is probably easier to have them at home because I can monitor them by looking out a window. I'm probably an atypical boarder because I feed my own horse (at a full care facility) twice a day and bring him into his pen from pasture every night. In addition to going there to ride several days a week, I end up at the boarding facility as many as four time a day. Fortunately, it's so close I could walk if I weren't so lazy. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Gudmar
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't there a video of him doing what he called a dressage demo at EA? I saw a private one that someone (can't remember who) made, but I don't know of a publicly available one. Let's just say he was saying one thing and doing another. I wasn't impressed. He is a kid when it comes to dressage, and it showed badly. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, so because he is Trying a new discipline, and showing himself doing it in public, he is being criticized? Lets give people a break when they are learning themselves, as far as I am concerned Dressage is a lifelong discipline, always something to learn, just as with any discipline. Its because of this kind of attitude that I never post any pics of us riding... Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
I have had horses all of my life, and learned things mostly on my own, I saw Ray Hunt as a kid, has a few lessons from Jack Brainard, Showed Arabs, WON... did it all most all myself, Started with a been there done that half Arab Gelding, then started showing Arabs, then birthing, raising and training my parents horses... I watched a lot of IDIOT Arab Trainers... Tried not to DO any of that JUNK myself... what I did, is make sure my horses learned what they needed to know before my dad sent them to the trainers so it was EASY for the horses... When I saw Pat teaching people I was relieved, cause I really felt like he was teaching people to do it the best way possible for the horse... I felt like I was home... The 7 games is just the language for us humans, learning the timing, learning to get the message to the horse, well, that takes savvy, if you already have it, you can still learn form Pat and Linda, the secret is to be as light as possible, and have still be able to have it all... For me with my guy, it is a combination of so many things... but one of the pieces of the puzzle for me has been to watch Pat and Linda... I go to the clinic and I watch, where his hands are, where is body is, the look on his face, the timing he has to do what he does.. wow, it really is very exciting for me to watch he is a Master I have watched Linda become a horsewomen too... she has great timing now, great hands, great seat, and her ability to explain things is invaluable, the two of them are so perfect for each other... one without the other is just simply not complete... Not every person who watches Pat and Linda can be Pat or Linda, everyone has to develop their own language and savvy, but, I do believe, if you can practice, practice and practice, that you will be able to get good results using PNH with any horse... the new Behavior DVD's are wonderful... cause, they are addressing the various horse personalities and what to do with each type of horse... something that I am not sure if many others have addressed... Smart move on their part, and very, very important... I have been coaching a friend, which simply helps me to be better... cause then I go home and watch the DVD's so I can coach her to the next level, she has watched the DVD's, but for her it helps to have someone help her.. her horse will not go into the trailer willingly, we have not made it about the trailer, we have been getting his trust, and respect near the trailer... I think I could get him in the trailer for her, but that is not what PNH is all about... she has to have the leadership and respect for this horse... she loves him, he loves her, but dang, he does not really see her as the leader... Every time I watch the DVD's, I see and learn something I missed or forgot... but that is me, I eat this stuff up... Debbie in MN ~ Please check out how we can all help raise money for Huginn's Hospital Fund ~ http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgtrq74d_386xtqp ~~~If we all do a little, we will have a lot
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
We were laughing about that very thing while out doing a conditioning ride Saturday. I bought Hunter from a woman who was a Parelli instructor in a city about two hours from here. She taught a weekly class there. I like a lot of things that come from PNH, but Hunter was a very poor representative of natural horsemanship. The seller agreed to deliver him to a spot mid-way between her place and ours. She had a really rough time getting him in my trailer - a trailer that I had never had a horse refuse to go into, very open and spacious. She kept looking at me as if to ask, Changed your mind yet? I was thinking If he doesn't go in this time, she can keep the deposit. I am so out of here. He loaded and I took him home, but for the entire first week I was thinking I had made a very large mistake. I've had him a little over two years now. He does know the seven games and he has loaded like a champ the last four times I hauled him, but that is after two plus years. I have to assume he flunked her class. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Necks
Hi Karen, Does the length of the neck really help a horse do one gait over another? Segull has quite a long neck for an Icelandic - it is more proportionate than some. However I find that with a lot of the short necked Icelandics they have quite a deep shoulder so it feels as though the neck is longer when you are riding them. I think that for some of the shorter necked horses, especially if they have quite thick throatlatch area, it is important not to ask for too much flexion as it becomes really difficult for them. What does Liz think about that type of horse? Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image
is the problem with carrying a stick, crop, whip??? Nothing IMO. I read it somewhere in a post. Lorraine Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
RE: [IceHorses] Horse Ball
Hi Judy, That is an interesting video. He certainly deflated the ball. I have some concerns about horses playing so roughly be toys. Probably stupid on my part but I have seen a few colts that had no other horses to play with so they were given toys and I found they were a bit over the top in other areas of handling. I suppose if a horse has little turn out and very controlled smaller living situations it is good to give them something to do. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] old photos
The hands free photo is from 1965 on a tour Linda across the US to major horse shows with a group of students and Hungarian mares and stallions. Those pictures are great Lorraine Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
On 9/3/07, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We were laughing about that very thing while out doing a conditioning ride Saturday. I bought Hunter from a woman who was a Parelli instructor A Parelli instructor?!!! With a horse that couldn't even load?! Good Lord. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
--- Robyn Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/3/07, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We carry a stick when we ride, doesn't mean we whip them but giving a tap on the shoulder is better than excessive use of leg or wearing spurs IMO. I think it is a pain to carry a whip. Id rather not if I don't have to. I use humane spurs on my MFT and long reins. It doesn't mean I kick the hell out of him. They are there as a back up. Lorraine Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] horses are stupid-not
That they are much smarter than any human that thinks they're stupid, I totally agree with that. Scooter found a hurt stray cat last winter when we were riding. I probably wouldn't have seen him. Now that is smart. They can see and here a long ways away. Lorraine Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] horses are stupid-not
Well - why bother responding to a comment from a non-horse person? Just smile like Mona Lisa and walk away. Actually I did just that. I ignored his comment. He wanted to get a rise out of me. He mentioned of a horse that ran into a barn when it was on fire. I told him I might do the same thing because I was confused. Lorraine Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
The glitz and stuff... ignore that. Don't let that stand in the way of using something that works well. Have you tried the Seven Games? http://iceryder.net/7games.html If you learn how to do it well, you may be able to help the people over there who may be mis-using it. I have a gelding right now that probably would enjoy that kind of workhe is curious about everything and wants to do anything that would mean he gets attention. I would be willing to start the first game with him once I get him back from Eloisesto see how it goes. But I guess I am wondering how so many people who do not even know each other use the lead rope in such an abrasive manner because of the seven games? What in the DVDs is missing, where is the translation lost? Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
