Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
On 9/20/07, Kim Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Or this. There's a big discussion going on at the German icelist, > > about the same subject. This is a preview of an article in one of the > > German horse magazines, taken at the WC. It's not just here than > > people are getting upset. > > > > That is really a relief to hear. That is a relief. Doesn't Germany have the largest population of Icelandics of any country outside of Iceland? Robyn S -- Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures. ~ The Dalai Lama
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
On 9/20/07, dawn_atherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Robyn Schulze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Its the ones who regard those of us into natural methods as lunatics > who don't know what we're talking about. Those are the ones who won't > change. So sadly, it IS going to be us vs. them, to a degree. > > -You are wrong on this. *I'M* one of those who > thought of you and the natural method people as lunatics who didn't > know what you were talking about. I have indeed changed my ideas on > this! I went from riding in the dropped noseband, traditional > Icelandic saddle that didn't fit, and shoes all the time to riding in a > sidepull, treeless saddle and barefoot. I have been studying the Linda > Tellington Jones TTouch stuff, and have started taking a more holistic > approach to training and riding. I have employed the clicker training > method to help turn a horse around who had a bad start under saddle. > *I* have changed. If I can change, others can too. Good! I'm glad to be wrong then! And glad that you have found a way that works better for you and your horse. Robyn S -- Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures. ~ The Dalai Lama
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
On 9/20/07, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We should try and agree to disagree in a pleasant manner, and if we do > > lose our temper, what could we do? > > > Yes, Janice, even though it's really hard sometimes, I think we all > need to try to stay on the high road, becasue sometimes the people we > alienate are the ones that need us most (and I'm not just talkiing > about this list) I try to be kind in all my dealings with people and > animals but sometimes a button is pushed and it's impossible to not be > a little snide and maybe hostile. After I do that, though, I always > feel crappy because I think this might be a person that really needed > me to approach them in a calm, reasonable manner to help them > understand. Also, though, I realize a lot of social change has only > come about because people have been willing to put it all on the line. > It's a hard balancing act but the struggle is worth it if you can > help bring about change for the good-- let's all just keep striving to > find the way. During the last nasty go-round, Dawn posted somtething that I thought was extremely wise--she said that before she hits the send button, she gives some thought to how her reply sounds to someone else: if it would sound nasty or snippy in person, it would sound at least that bad online. Since then, I've tried to maintain the same attitude. I've noticed that Judy does the same--she is always patient and calm with people, even those that are nasty. I've seen her be firm but fair, just as we should be with our horses too. And Robyn H. seems to stay out of the bickering and simply offer her knowledge. So how about we all treat each other as we strive to do with our horses--fairly, kindly but firmly when necessary, and leave the egos at the door. Robyn S -- Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures. ~ The Dalai Lama
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
People who don't see it, they see a > something good, well, I'm sure the spider crawl looks good to the > TWH people who like padded up horses, they think it looks great, > other people who aren't used to it are disgusted. I'll never forget when I was at the Rocky Mountain Horse Expo some years ago, and a man came out on a racking saddlebred for the ASB breed demo. The horse's head was yanked back, and his feet were lifting so ridiculously high it was pathetic. And people were LAUGHING because this poor horse looked so silly. And at a big jumper show I went to once, one of the horses refused a jump two times. The rider took his crop and started whacking the crap out of the horse on its neck, and people booed. The general public isn't stupid--people know when they see something wrong. Robyn S -- Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures. ~ The Dalai Lama
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
On 9/19/07, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Here's to Judy! > > > Yes, Here, Here !! - Thanks for your courage +1!! Robyn S -- Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures. ~ The Dalai Lama
Re: [IceHorses] Favortie Sidepull
On 9/19/07, janine4494 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Last week I received my new "All in one Bridle" made by Crit Taylor, > and it's better than I could have imagined. I've used bitless bridles > in the past, the "Moss Rock Freedom Bridle" the Parelli hackamore > thingy. I also have one of Crit's sidepulls and really like it, the little I've been able to use it--beautifully made, fits well, altho a bit close to the end of the straps. Glad it's working well for you Janine! Robyn S Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures. ~ The Dalai Lama
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
On 9/19/07, Wanda Lauscher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 19/09/2007, dawn_atherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I wholly disagree with this. There are absolutely > > people who can, will and do change. You will not change everyone. > > But there are those out there who maybe have something happen and > > they start realizing that there is a better way. But alienating, > > disrespecting, demeaning and undermining them and perpetuating > > the "them versus us" mentality is surely not the way to get across to > > some of the ones who may be inclined to change. > > But seriously, how long has Judy been providing information and still > the trolls come on to argue? And those are the ones that I refer to. Not the people new to the breed who have been influenced by traditional riders and methods. Its the ones who regard those of us into natural methods as lunatics who don't know what we're talking about. Those are the ones who won't change. So sadly, it IS going to be us vs. them, to a degree. And Janice, I truly appreciate your lack of ego--THAT'S what separates true horsemen from merely riders. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
On 9/19/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If it came from the general population I assume it came from, who > cares? It's more about status to them than about the horse. > > > Exactly, and who of us cares one whit about status? I sure don't. I agree. And you won't change the minds of people in that group anyway. Robyn S Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures. ~ The Dalai Lama
Re: [IceHorses] Training suggestions?
On 9/18/07, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Okay - let's go somewhere positive here. I rode Tosca in the arena this > morning for the first time and it went mostly how I expected it would. She > stood quietly to be mounted. She moved off readily when asked and made > several trips around the arena at the walk. Something scared her and she > jumped sideways and did a 180. I stayed with her well and just quietly > moved her back on the rail and kept riding her forward. > > Then she did what I sort of thought she might. She stopped dead in the > water and really didn't want to move ever again. > > She might have scared herself with her spook. The saddle doesn't fit well - > too long - so moving may not feel all that good. > > I didn't want to get after her and didn't have a whip anyway, so I just sat > there in the pretty morning sunshine until she moved forward on her own > and then I praised her lavishly. I think you did the absolutely perfect thing!! You stayed with her, you showed her that you would be patient with her, and you kept your cool and showed her that you are a leader that she can rely on. I bet the next time things will be 100% better. I don't think you need a leader at all. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Feed and supplements
On 9/18/07, judy3hhd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ---Thank you all for your suggestions. I noticed nobody said they > give the daily wormer. Do I need to do that? Is it better to give > the vitamin supplements? My guy has very strong feet and am told by > the vet that he doesn't need a foot supplement. Judy, I had my horses on a hoof supplement for years, yet my twh continued to blow out the sides of his feet. When I switched to a Natural Balance farrier, the problem went away. His feet were properly trimmed, w/ no excess hoof wall, and so there was no hoof wall to blow out. He didn't need a supplement, he needed a good farrier and a proper natural trim. Now I feed both of the horses (twh and an Icelandic) a vitamin supplement, a bit of Safe Choice feed (about 1/4 cup for the Icey), a bit of hay pellets, and a scoop of ground flax seed, which I like very much for them--helps with itching. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Quote
> > Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants > happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do > other creatures. ~ His Holiness The Dalai Lama Thanks Judy--that's a real keeper. I changed my signature to that. Robyn S Life is as dear to the mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures. ~ The Dalai Lama
Re: [IceHorses] Was "applauding" now "hostage mentality"
> By the way, I was never, EVER as mean as I am now before I went through that > with my kid. I learned quickly that I can be mean when it involves child > welfare, and I feel the same about animals. How sad for your daughter, Karen. I'm glad she had such great support in her parents. I understand a bit about this statement above, as I've had to learn the hard way to be an advocate for my animals, as well as my son. And if it involves standing up to authority sometimes, or being a bitch, well so be it. My family and beasties will always have me behind them. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] kneeing a horse
On 9/18/07, Lorraine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't condone this myself. What do you thing about > kneeing a horse in the stomach while saddleing him? > The girl I sold Harley to, her friend suggested it. I > told her "don't you dare"! Try this: strap a saddle onto this girl, tightly, and then kick her in the stomach when she sucks in her breath. I guarantee she will NEVER again consider doing this to a horse. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] icelandic olympic team
> i think at this point if we had an icelandic olympic team we would > have to call it "Hurting Horses for Jesus" or something. > > or maybe "The bat outa hell bolt for gold" > > or "strangled by leather and steel" event or "weighted feet cause we > cant gait without it". class. > > then later on the first gold medal winner could write his epic best > seller entitled "The Wind in My Tights" Yeah, any of the others, but let's leave Jesus out of this one. I know he wouldn't approve of hurting anything. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] the defense tool kit
> when parelli says "if you back a horse into a corner he will start > showing you what he has in his defense tool kit". Now I am worried he still has that > rearing in him and rearing is just not something I can handle at all. > its a bad feeling. When I first read that Parelli quote in another email, my first thought was, "then don't back him into a corner so that he feels he has to use those tools." Something in his past pushed him so hard that he began to rear to get away. Along the way it might have worked. Or maybe it's that he's so sensitive. So I'd say, you know how sensitive he is, so ride him with that in mind. I don't think you need to be afraid of him, or walk on eggshells, just be aware of his sensitivity. And don't back him into a corner so he feels that he has no other option but to rear. Personally, I don't think a horse should ever be smacked or yelled at anyway--it just isn't necessary. I've certainly made the mistake in the past, but have dropped all that now. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Drop Nosebands / Curbs / Mic
> >>> No, the Monte Foreman is very different. This one more resembles a curb. > I'll send you a pic. > > > Is this it? http://www.bozsaddlery.com/9jpeg.jpg I've seen it with a > couple of different mouthpieces and with a couple of different shank > lengths. I think it's pretty much the same as the English Pelham IF 1) the > shanks are of similar lengths, and 2) the mouthpieces are similar. I can't > remember seeing an English Pelham with a med-high port or with a roller > though. That's it. I found that link but couldn't find the photo. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Drop Nosebands / Curbs / Mic
On 9/17/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's more like a curb, w/ a medium port w/ a roller. There are rings > for a rein to use it as a curb, altho I use it on the snaffle setting, on > the big rings. I use a 1/2" curb strap set very loose, more 'cause I had it > on the bridle already than anything else. > > > Here is the Tom Thumb snaffle: > http://www.saddleuptack.com/webcat/items/item990.htm It doesn't have a > roller, but it does have two positions for attaching reins. I think they > are pretty similar except for the roller. No, the Monte Foreman is very different. This one more resembles a curb. I'll send you a pic. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Drop Nosebands / Curbs / Mic
I still mostly use snaffles, but I'm quite ok > with the idea and practice of using anything from a gentle sidepull, up to a > Tom Thumb Pelham...and Robyn, isn't the Monty Foreman simply the "western" > version of the Tom Thumb mullen-mouth Pelham? (Not to be confused with the > Tom Thumb "snaffle" which has a broken mouth and shanks.) I'm not sure what that is. However, I ran out to the trailer and grabbed it, and will email you some pix of it. It's more like a curb, w/ a medium port w/ a roller. There are rings for a rein to use it as a curb, altho I use it on the snaffle setting, on the big rings. I use a 1/2" curb strap set very loose, more 'cause I had it on the bridle already than anything else. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?!
> I mean... it is pretty clear to me what I see... and I assume it's pretty > clear to other horsemen around the world (unless they're *not* horsemen and > only *horse riders* or *horse controllers*). > > I would hope that people get a clue and NOT copy what those people (World > Championship riders?!?!?!) are doing. Sad that they look like small show-padded walkers w/ all that high knee action and hopping-type gait to get their front ends up. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Drop Nosebands / Curbs / Mic
> A Pelham is designed to work as a curb and snaffle together, using two > reins. If you only use the snaffle rein, why not just use an ordinary > snaffle? Because my horse wasnt' comfortable in a snaffle. When I rode in Lee's clinic, she wanted to try him in a Monte Foreman pelham, which she had and we did. He went better in it and was happier w/ a bit, so I switched. But you're right about the kimberwicke-sorry. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Bats
.unless you had a cut where the horse drooled and then you'd be in trouble. When the whole AIDS thing started coming out I was in nursing school, and it wasn't even in our brand-new textbooks. Everything we learned about AIDS was from handouts. And at the time it wasn't clear how AIDS was transmitted. One thing that really stayed with me is "there is no such thing as intact skin", meaning that even seemingly unbroken skin has tiny little nicks, scrapes, etc from normal everyday use. So a good thing to remember is to always use good quality gloves in such a situation. Karen and Janice, thanks for sharing your experiences. It's always good to learn from people who have been thru it. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] finally saw Beowulf
> I realize these horses are Iceland's treasure, but they may very well > be the purest examples of the ancient Celtic horse of any breed alive. > Watching them move was breath takingmost worthy of a goddess. Thanks for the movie review! Is this the one "Beowulf and Grendel" or is it another version? I want to be able to watch the right one. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Bats
> speaking of poo... i put chicken poo on my rose bushes and they > started growing just incredibly healthy, bushy, green, gorgeous... > but not ONE bloom. So I bought rose food at walmart and dosed em and > they bloomed like crazy. So obviously chicken feed is the wrong rate > they need for blooming. I am gonna try horse poo and see if that does > ok for blooming. Nope, don't do it. Try rabbit poo instead--brown gold! That's the very best fertilizer I've found! And it's also easy to handle and doesn't smell, no weed seeds. Just sprinkle 'em around your plant. Gives you an incentive to raise rabbits, doesn't it? Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Drop Nosebands / Curbs / Mic
> > ---Very interesting read! I thought that Lee Ziegler had > me using direct rein contact with the mild ported mouth (not jointed) > kimberwick that I use. I wonder if the above is contradictory to > that. I assume that the use of the term "curb bit" would indicate a > mild ported mouth bit with shanks? According to my bit book, a snaffle is any bit that works by direct pressure, whereas a curb is a bit that works by leverage. So your kimberwicke, like my mod. port Monte Foreman pelham, works by direct pressure and is thus a snaffle bit. I use my MF bit on Santana on the snaffle setting, not the curb setting, so it works by direct pressure. The MF bit I use was also recommended to me by Lee Z. Great article Judy! Good ol' Mark--just one more thing I like about the guy. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Needing positive energy!!
> You HAVE been doing your homework, Virginia. I'll be looking forward to you > buying a farm, even if this isn't the one. It will be fun to hear about > someone else setting up a place...without me having to actually do the work! Sounds like it! Looks like a wonderful place, and the price looks right! Altho I can't remember the conversion to US dollars. Good for you! I hope this works out. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Bats and CDC
On 9/17/07, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That is why it took so long to figure out what was > > wrong with him. Rabies is very rare!!..He could have had an open > > wound or inhaled it into his lungs. > > It would be more likely to me, that while he was in the caves he was > bitten by a bat. Being in the midst of all that and with their very > sharp teeth, it could conceivably even happen without him knowing it. That makes the most sense. Robyn S (who is an RN too, for what it's worth)
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Bats
> > It is an effective fertilizer and gunpowder ingredient due to its high > levels of phosphorus and nitrogen and also its lack of odor. Gunpowder?! Wow--I wonder who thought up that one! So that explains "guano harvesters"--what a job. Thanks for the explanation Maggie--that's interesting. See, Laree? Now you can collect the bat poo in your catch basins and sell it! I think I'll stick to bunny poo for garden fertilizer tho. :) Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Bats
> > --In California there has been a case of rabies related to bat > poopies. This man was from Mexico and the doctors in the hospital > where I worked could not figure out what was wrong with him. It was > then brought to their attention that this man was going into the bat > caves and collecting poopThey then tested him for rabies. This > was a number of years ago. He died. I was real dubious about this and found this on a CDC website: "In addition, people cannot get rabies from having contact with bat guano (feces), blood, or urine, or from touching a bat on its fur (even though bats should never be handled!). " More likely he got some saliva on himself, got into a cut on his skin. The greater question I have is-- WHY was the man going into caves and collecting bat poop?! I hope it was for some scientific research..otherwise, I can't figure out why he would be doing that. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Round Penning
> Just curious, what is the goal with round penning? I don't know what the goals of traditional RP trainers are, but for me, the RP is a useful tool for getting a horse's focus, doing at-liberty work, asking a horse to move out for the first time under saddle--Shadow would walk and trot w/ the saddle on, but needed some coaxing to canter. When he did (in the RP, w/o me on him) boy did he have a few bucks to get out! Then he learned that he could canter w/ the saddle on. I don't do much lunge-line type stuff--I'd rather use the round pen. But I've also never used either one for just running the crap out of a horse, altho I have used it to exercise (trotting 10 mins either direction) an older horse on occasion. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Needing positive energy!!
> Hubby and I went to an open house today--a house in the country with > about 50 acresI think it would make for a perfect home for us and > our Icey's!! Everyone--please send positive energyif it's meant > to be ours, it will be! It felt like home, please, let it be!!! Fun!! I hope it works out for you! When the right place comes along, you just know. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Hempfling says:
> I am not sure why, but we have 2 mares that do not respond to RP > stuff like other horses. Dis and Skyfaxa both turn their butt to you > in a RP I've done a bit of round pen work with Shadow, not like the John Lyons run-'em-til-they-drop method; but just some gentle send-around w/ using my body posture. He quickly learned that being next to me was a good place, and he didn't do any more rump-turning than my TWH ever did. When I "draw him in," he turns and comes right to me. But then I've never flagged the crap out of him either, like some interpret RP training to be. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] more pic´s
> > here come´s a pic of Sofia a friend that took part > > and then Hakon my 5 yo son on Edda > > and in the endof some very tired dogs that was > taking a nap while menn get coffe. > > Regards Malin in a snowy Iceland, belive it or > not I just looked out the window and it´s snowing!! Great pictures Malin--thank you for sharing them! Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Hempfling says:
It's particularly noticeable in Maja who had to make an adjustment to > driving, when the person giving her direction was behind her. She caught on > quickly though. I've been seeing this with Shadow too when I'm ground-driving him--if he gets confused, sometimes he'll turn towards me, since that's always a good place to be. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] flight instinct
> My apologize, for writing some lines out of my normally quiete corner. > > Firstly it is very interesting to see Mr Hempfling "flourishing" in The > States now - he left Germany in some hurry. To say the least Mr Hempfling > like many other "whisperers" prefer NOT to work with true ponies. Technics > and strategies, which normally impress most Iberian horses will make a pony > grin - that is one of the problems for them. > > As far as I can see the idea about a "flight instinct" in all equines might > be the result of misinterpretated early behavioural research. In some older > German books about horse-behaviour you'll read, that equines will flee > everything smaller on 4 legs- including humans- because of the in-build > memory of the wolf. My own trials to play the wolf resulted in amused ( > Icelandic and Fell )ponies, strange dogs will be chased and, as a friend told > me, in some cases not fled but killed. > > Barbara Hi Barbara, please don't apologize--it's always great to hear everyone's opinion, esp. about a European trainer--I'm assuming you are in Germany? Isn't Hempfling in Denmark now? Why did he leave Germany in a hurry? Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Hempfling says:
> >> I've heard it said that Icelandics will turn > > their rump to you as a way of submission > > I wonder where that came from; any idea? I haven't heard it, and it doesn't > make sense to me. No, I'm sorry I don't remember where I heard that. Just heresay, and since someone else mentioned rump-turning, I thought I'd throw it in and see if there was any truth to it. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Hempfling says:
On 9/15/07, Virginia Tupper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 9/15/07, Robyn Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Skye, my friend Kat had an Icelandic that she sent to a round pen > > "trainer"--this woman almost ruined this Icey by insisting that he > > turn to face her. (It was eiteher her horse or a friends of hers' > > horse--can't remember). I've heard it said that Icelandics will turn > > their rump to you as a way of submission, and punishing them for it > > will completely confuse them. > > > > Orri faces me, and when I walk around him he tries to keep facing me > unless I put a hand on his head to let him know to stand. I was told > this was his way of being dominant. Gat also faces me, but she will > stand as I walk around her. Shadow faces me too, but it's because I've taught him that that is what I want him to do. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Hempfling says:
> You're getting to be just like the rest of us, Virginia...and I say that > with pride. :) Again, there may be plenty of good in what Hempfling > preaches, but good for you for asking questions. I would love to see Hempfling get on this site and talk w/ us about his methods. I too worry about someone who makes such strong opinionated statements which many of us have agreed are false when it comes to Icelandics. Like I said before, I greatly respect anyone who advocates and does bridleless work! But I don't think Icelandics are THAT different from other breeds, that gentle training won't work with them. Skye, my friend Kat had an Icelandic that she sent to a round pen "trainer"--this woman almost ruined this Icey by insisting that he turn to face her. (It was eiteher her horse or a friends of hers' horse--can't remember). I've heard it said that Icelandics will turn their rump to you as a way of submission, and punishing them for it will completely confuse them. Anyway, this horse was terribly afraid of being "flagged" (whip w/ a plastic flag at the end) after that. Karen, no problem, I was trying to be sincere, not snippy. :) You're right, we do need to be more clear with word choices. But you know what I meant anyway, so it all works out. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Hempfling says:
> > I don't believe that. Losing an instinct like the "prey" instinct would be > an evolutionary process, and evolution is measured in many thousands of > years to millions of years. What in their survival mechanism would make > them loose their prey instincts in a "mere" 1000 years...? You're right Karen. I guess I should have been more clear, said something more like that their prey instinct has become lessened in that they've adapted to that environment. Natural selection and adaptation makes more sense. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Safi diagnosed IR
> Possibly Dr. Jennie Rankin, we used her but she moved to Montana or > North Dakato... we miss her. If you know of another I'd like a backup > for Dr. Belsito. But we're very happy with her. I think you're right--that name sounds familiar. Too bad she left, but I'm glad you're happy w/ Dr. Belsito. After years of vet-hopping, I finally think I've found a winner in her! I'm sorry that you've been so delayed in treating Safi, but glad that you're on the right track now. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Safi diagnosed IR
> I insisted on blood work, she never got back to me with the results and > since he was symptom free I didn't persue it. Have you talked w/ Dr. Belsito? She has some experience w/ Icelandics as she has several of us Icelandic clients. There is also a vet in Ft. Collins who apparently is a bit of an Icelandic expert, I've heard. Can't remember her name, but I can contact my friend Kat who might know. Personally, I'd deep-six any vet who didn't get back to me for months over very abnormal lab work. I've fired them for less than that. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Bats
> What animals are listed as being most susceptible to rabies/carrying > rabies? What I've read in the past is that cats, skunks, bats, foxes > and raccoons are the most susceptible carriers. I'm sure there are > others, but those are the ones that I remember. Okay, here's a bit from a page in Missouri: it says that some animals are more susceptible to rabies than others, and they are in order from most to less (in the top 5)--foxes, skunks, cattle, dogs, and then cats. I guess I sure was off! It also says that: "The raccoon, opossum, ground hog and muskrat in Missouri are seldom rabid. The Missouri Division of Health Central Laboratory has never isolated rabies from a bird, fox squirrel, gray or ground squirrel, chipmunk or field mouse, wild rat, rabbit" Here's what it says about bats: RABIES IN BATS: Bats, unlike other animals, can have rabies virus in their salivary glands and be capable of transmitting rabies for several weeks and even moths before showing clinical signs of rabies. Therefore, any bite by a bat must be considered rabid until proven otherwise by the laboratory. This is a very interesting page. http://mdc.mo.gov/landown/wild/nuisance/rabies/ Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Bats
> In my research, I also read that bats aren't any more likely to be a > rabies vector than other animals and probably less likely - can't > remmember why less likely. I had always heard they were frequent > rabies vectors but they said that is a myth. Of course this was from > a site specifically about bats so it may have been slanted. What animals are listed as being most susceptible to rabies/carrying rabies? What I've read in the past is that cats, skunks, bats, foxes and raccoons are the most susceptible carriers. I'm sure there are others, but those are the ones that I remember. Interesting stuff! I will have to do some reading on it too. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Bats
> Actually, Robyn, from the research I did it seems that they have > connected the foal stillbirths and spontaneous abortions that happened > in KY in the 90's that were so awful, to a virus that was carried by > ticks with bats being the original host. So there is always a > possibility of cross contamination between species. Thanks for that info. I hadn't heard the latest on that--I thought it was due to particular grasses that the mares had eaten. The tray idea sounds like it would work. Just be careful emptying the trays, w/ the rabies issue and all. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Oh, and....
I think good horsemanship is like a flowing > river, it can change and adapt to fit the situation, not like ice, > where there is a prescribed set of rules to use, and someone tries to > use them in the same way in every situation. Fantastic analogy, Kim! Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Hempfling says:
> > Do you know what he's talking about when he refers to a character type > > called the "Origin". > > He made up a quite a few character types and put Icelandics and Fjords > in the 'Origin' group. Thanks for the kick in the pants Virginia--I stopped reading this book about 2/3 thru b/c I got busy w/ other things. I need to finish it! However, he does imply that not all Icelandics fit into the Origin subgroup. He also makes the statement that "at a tolt, three legs are always on the ground and therefore the danger of sinking deeply (into marshy wet ground) is lessened, that is why a horse tolts." So his knowledge of soft gaits is limited.And he claims that "another survival technique has developed in marshy regions: fighting instead of fleeing." So his claim is that the Icelandic horse has lost much of its instinct to flee b/c it couldn't run from danger and so had to adapt to fight back. But I've always heard that the Icelandics lost their flight instinct b/c of being on an isolated area for 1000 years w/ no natural predators to flee from. So while I think Hempfling is wonderful--I think anyone who advocates natural, non-forced, bridleless training is great!--I think his knowledge of Icelandics is pretty limited. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] hoof material - Karen
On 9/13/07, Robyn Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >But at least they are truly working towards > > >partnering with the horse, and not forcing the horse to do anything. And another nice set of thumbnails. I love how relaxed Nevzorov looks while riding. Robyn S http://www.nevzorov-haute-ecole.com/en/photogallery.php?gid=24
Re: [IceHorses] hoof material - Karen
> >But at least they are truly working towards > >partnering with the horse, and not forcing the horse to do anything. Here's a nice one, of the horse starting to rear, or perhaps the beginning of a capriole (?) out on the trail, with the cordeo (that's what I think they call the line around the neck) and a bit of twig for a cueing whip. http://www.nevzorov-haute-ecole.com/en/photogallery.php?id=497&gid=30 Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Bats
On 9/13/07, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We would like to put up a bat house/houses to combat the flying insect > population around here. Is there any need to worry about bat > droppings underneath the houses/s if they are in your pasture? I > can't find out anything about that question specifically on the > internet. We have a hefty colony of bats in our bat house, and they leave hefty piles of little doodoos. They also hang out in the eaves of the house here and there, and leave little poopies there too. We've counted about 25 bats in the one house--it's fun to sit w/ a chair in the evenings and watch them swoop out one by one for the night. Where the bat house is, it doesn't matter if there's poop there. Under the eaves, on the deck, I just sweep them off every so often. The poo pile under the house is about 1 ft. by 3 inches, so if you're concerned about the horses being exposed, you could fence that area off w/ a temporary fence for the season. Better yet, can you situated the houses behind your barn or somewhere where the horses don't have access? More b/c of the potential for a horse to sniff a sick bat that might be on the ground near the house, having fallen out, and the horse gets bitten and exposed to rabies. You could ask your vet about it too. I doubt that the horses could pick up any disease from bats, it seems that *most* diseases tend to be species-specific. In any case, the toll that they take on the bug population outweighs any risk from having poo on the ground. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Dropped Nosebands
> Unfortunately, this was a clinic > setting, and I was too in shock to say anything at that point. I wish > I would have been in the right frame of mind to stop what was happening > and tell this trainer to stop the madness and have the rider work on > the ground. Hey Dawn, I'd really like to know who this clinician is. Reason being, I'm interested in a clinician from Canada, and I want to make sure that it isn't the same guy. You can email me off-list if you prefer. Thanks, Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Dropped Nosebands
. Something was going > wrong if the rider needed to pull so hard that the snaffle was pulled > through her horse's mouth. > > Really all you do is stop your horse in place and ask him to move his > hindquarters around his front feet. It's easy to teach and there is not > much rein action. > > Oh - and you teach it one step at a time. I would ask for one step then > immediately ask the horse to move forward. Well I wasn't gonna say it and have my head bitten off again, but I agree--something is wrong when the bit gets pulled thru the mouth. As we talked about recently w/ the Parelli YoYo game, many people have the tendency to rush thru "teaching" something and not break it down into enough steps. I've certainly been guilty of this before too! My son has been learning about the scientific method in school. They had to write a 10 step list of how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich; the teacher went thru these over a couple days and demonstrated just how much was left out in their lists--ie, "step 1--open the bag of bread" and the teacher would pull at the bag and finally rip it open: "is that right?"--of course not, b/c the step of "untie the twist tie" had been left out. It's a good analogy of how much we can really break steps down and not cut corners when training. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] hoof material - Karen
> What does worry me a bit though is that they never once show the > horses doing anything at all outside. Everything is done in the > (admittedly very smart) indoor riding school. I still would like to > see what would happen if he took his horses for an hours' trail ride > with 5 other horses and riders. Bet the horses would enjoy it! > ; ) That's a very good point. I'm certainly not advocating this very radical method of working w/ horses. But it's interesting, and encouraging that people aren't just stopping w/ NH. There are a number of pix on the website of Nevzorov working w/ his horses out in the woods and fields around his property, so they aren't all just in the arena. As far as trail riding or working a horse around other horses, high level Parellians do it a lot in their clinic/show thingys, where a group of hi level students take their horses in the arena and do groundwork w/ them or ride, nothing on the horse at all. And the horses stay with their handler, even w/ all the other loose horses around. And I've heard of other Parellians taking their horses bareback/bridleless on trail rides. It's definitely do-able. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
On 9/13/07, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >I snagged a couple of still pictures from the video. I may buy that video, > >just to see more details. > > > I've just ordered it. > > Did you notice how LONG the feet are? Even the one with the great > chunk out of it? You couldn't miss that. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Same picture - different house
> I love how houses with animals, mostly dogs, in them always have the > quilt over the sofa so the dogs can enjoy the couch, too - just like > at our house :-)) Yeah we have that too...only the dogs BURROW under the quilt that's attempting to protect the couch! grrr Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] hoof material - Karen
> so it is a way to add weight to alter gait. we here in the > walking/racking horse capitols of the world are well familiar with > these seemingly harmless methods to alter crappy gaits or enhance > gaits for the show ring. It probably wont be long before it suddenly > ocuurs to them, voila, we can pressure shoe! Add a smear of mustard > oil to the coronet band! after all, winning is everything! Not just > for ribbons, but for stud services, boosting prices of horses who win > ribbons, and their offspring! Evaluations! these are big money > activities. And they ruin breeds of horses. ruin them completely. > Breed all the natural gait out. Like breeding for color or svelte > conformation or mane instead of soundness and natural gait. Any time > you mix dollars with horses, horses lose. > Janice-- When I first tried Santana (in a soft arena) in Boa boots in the front, he became quite pacey (he tends towards being trotty). Just that little thing. Judy posted this website a couple weeks ago I think. I got very intrigued with it, signed up on the forum, and have been checking it out. It's a bit too "out there" for me, but I think they are headed in a better direction than some. But--they are anti-bit, anti-competition (neither of which I think is bad, b/c I agree w/ those perspectives), and anti-NH; however, most of what you do with the horse is groundwork, very little riding (15 min at a time, IF the horse wants to). But at least they are truly working towards partnering with the horse, and not forcing the horse to do anything. Sounds like horse heaven to me! http://www.nevzorov-haute-ecole.com/en/ Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] "Catching" a horse
It really gave me clear > focus about how far I have come with my horses, Icelandics, and > mules. They are really pretty obediant compared to this mule just > starting out, and this is the spot we started at, even if I am not > riding them all quite yet:) I also saw that now I seem to have > learned something, and what may have taken me much longer a few > years ago, takes much less time now, even with an animal I don't > know. It really felt good to try and be a good example, and to be > able to help the mule and the guy save themselves from stress. What a great thing to be able to see how far you've come! Remember that the next time you get frustrated w/ something. :) Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] saved the app
On 9/12/07, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Way to go Janice. You saved the horse's life. Definitely! However, there was a horse kept at the barn where I took H/J lessons for a while. Can't remember his barn name, but his "fancy" name was "No Sweat", in part b/c he had anhydrosis. The owner rode and showed him, but she was very careful. But he was definitely rideable. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Fw: [GaitedEnduranceRiders] Nice video
> > This was sent to me by a horse friend: Check it out. B > > Barbara, NC > > > > http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=966_1187636093 I believe I saw this--what a beautiful, touching video. thanks--very timely Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] To train for natural gait
let him put his head where he needs it. My > husband said later he wished he had a camera cause stonewall was so > flashy and beautiful, so smooth and gaiting so effortlessly. When I've ridden Santana bridleless at the RW, he puts his head just below the level neck. That seems to be where he is comfortable gaiting. This is the main reason I don't like the Dr. Cooks bitless bridle--I like to just barely keep contact w/ his head, so that he can put his head where he is comfortable, and do his nodding thing w/o me getting in his way. And the Dr. Cooks rein ends are too weighty to allow this to happen w/o the reins flapping all around. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Elska and Farrier
> Me too. I can't remember it staying this hot for so longMAYBE, we'll > get a break over the next couple days. You should. Monday was drizzly and barely got to 60, cloudy most of the day. That morning it was 43 when I went out to let the horses out. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] The coyote enters the Majan Empire
On 9/10/07, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > we are thinking of a guard dog, but we have three house dogs. Wont it > > be lonely out there? and will it attack the house dogs when they go > > outside? > > I went to a seminar about herd guard dogs at a Fiber Fair (alpacas, > llamas, mohair goats, etc) and these issues were addressed. The > problem with having house dogs can definitely be an issue but > sometimes can be worked around if you get the dog as a puppy and start > training it to accept the house dogs from the beginning. But they felt > it was asking a lot to expect the dog to differentiate between good > dogs and bad dogs. Also, they said these dogs are raised to do a job > and are not cuddly pets to bring indoors. Some of the breeds are not > wired to need huge amounts of human interaction and are happier being > outside. The herd becomes their social group. I've heard this same thing about them. What do you want a guard dog for? I wonder if your mule (or is it a donkey?) would serve the same purpose. My brother worked at a campground where there was a donkey in with his horse and a mini. The donkey was incredibly protective of his herdmates, to the point where he was dangerous around dogs--he would actually lure a dog into the pasture, strike at it, and kill it. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] horse endurance trouble
> yesterday on our ride an appaloosa ridden by someone I just met that > day went into distress, and I honestly think he was fighting for his > life tho everyone else thought he was "just overheated" or "out of > shape" or "too fat". How boneheaded. I'm glad you reacted Janice--at least there was someone there advocating for the horse. My friend Kat took her horse on a multi-day trail ride in May. They had a long (10 hrs?) trailer ride to get there, in a slant-load trailer, which her mare isn't used to . Altho they took breaks, the mare ended up tying up badly--she has never had a problem w/ that before, but Kat thinks that since she had to brace herself in an odd way in the trailer, she just wore her muscles out from bracing just on that one side. They did get to do some of the rides, but the whole experience took the mare a couple months to get over, I think. And this mare is in great shape. I think they're not as tough as we give them credit for sometimes. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Frank and Marilyn...the movie
> Yeah, I think he may need some obedience work eventually... :) He's > normally VERY responsive, and will come when called - just friendly, because > he hasn't had any training. The new kitty friend was just too tempting I > think. You can start that anytime you know, even as a very young puppy. A good way for you to learn C/T, too! Starting w/ a young pup is great b/c they are ultra responsive, and have this little instinct to hang around w/ you, and the "come" is (almost always) automatic. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Foxes
> Then this week, I got a sick feeling and asked Cary if he'd actually SEEN > the foxes since they've been back. He said, not this time, that he'd only > heard them. Now, we wonder if the time they left was when the coyotes moved > in, and what we've heard recently has been coyotes, not foxes. I wonder if > coyotes would kill foxes, or drive them away...? Could be some disease specific to foxes. Don't worry so much about the coyotes. The ones around here mostly get rabbits, mice and voles. They will come right up to the house tho--I've seen tracks in the snow on the front porch, and I KNOW that they're not from a dog. Just be aware of them in relation to your pets. I really doubt they'd bother the horses, even the foals. Our horses are very unconcerned about them. I've had foxes get into my poultry, but never coyotes. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] hay
> I ended up paying $7.50 per bale for this timothy, which probably did average > 40 pounds per bale.I guess it could be worse. Karen, my mom and dad live 30 min. outside Wytheville VA--one of their part-time neighbors lives 30 miles south of them, in NC. They are complaining about the lack of hay, so I guess it's bad all over your area--the whole SW maybe? We got lucky this year. Hay is plentiful and cheap here--I paid $5/ bale for nice grass hay, a bit stemmy, but fine for my boys. They are about 60-70# bales, pretty much our norm. No one around here sells a 40# bale, that I know of. When we had a bad time a few years ago, hay was $8+ per bale (about the same size, 50-60# grass), very hard to come by. But then a bunch of people up north brought tractor trailer loads in, up from where it was cheap and plentiful. That helped a lot for the cattle ranchers in CO. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Winter coats
> > Daylight is supposed to be what determines when they start their > winter coats. > > All I know is we had more snow last winter than we've ever had AND we > had a huge blizzard that basically shut everything down for a day. > That's really odd for us. We're normally cold and very dry... Same for us--we had queer winter weather, unusual for us to have snow on the ground for 2 1/2 mos straight, 3 big storms womping on top of one another. Shadow is growing the most coat so far, and growing it quickly. Our trees are starting to turn too--seems a bit early. They usually turn in late Sept. Horse coats have always appeared to be good predicters of weather to me--big coat = deep cold. Last winter had lots of snow, but really very little subfreezing temps. Much as I dislike dealing with frozen water, I dislike bugs more. We need some good hard freezing to kill bugs. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re:Microchip Implants
On 9/9/07, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 9/9/07, Kaaren Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'd love to hear from anyone who has done the micro-chip process with their > > horses, as I am considering doing this too. Did you find any residual > > swelling or scarring around the implantation site?? My vet at the time advised against microchipping my horses and suggested freeze branding instead, which is what I did. His reasoning was because its not consistent in horses like it is in dogs; there are several different types of chips, each requiring its own scanning device. So any rescue operation/vet/barn would have to have every different kind of scanner in order to read all the different types of chips. He felt it would be unlikely to be helpful if the horses were stolen. That was from 3 years ago. Not sure if things are different now. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Frank and Marilyn...the movie
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=VamXZDxX98I > > > The sequel: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8dkgBiW0ARc Cute!! I'm not a big fan of snootly pugnose dogs (too much snoring for me) but he sure is cute! Aww, puppies are just cute anyway. I liked the part in the first one when Cary called to him, he looked back and then went "yeah right" and ran off--whee! Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Gaited Appy / IL
On 9/8/07, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A boy named Sioux: > > http://crosswindseqresq.org/sioux.html > > What gait: http://crosswindseqresq.org/photos/sioux/siouxhires.wmv Wow! Hard to believe that he's a "rescue"! Nice little horse. I'd say a stepping pace, not a RW. With a better rider, the canter would be nicer, and the back up would come more quickly. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] The coyote enters the Majan Empire
> I would've thought that coyotes wouldn't bother dogs -- aren't they > similar lineage somewhere down the line? Yes, but they will definitely pick off a dog or cat, no problem. I wouldn't even let a bigger dog out, but then, both of ours stay in a yard and come in at night mostly b/c I've had problems w/ neighbor dogs bothering my animals, and I don't want mine to be a nuisance too. But I won't take the chance on coyotes. I once watched a coyote (a very hungry female, apparently) go after the neighbor's dogs, at about 4:30 in the afternoon in the summer. The people were gone, left their dogs out loose--2 med sized and 2 small ones. The coyote would chase the dogs up to the house, where the dogs were more comfortable, at which point they would turn and chase the coyote away to the edge of their safely zone. Then THEY would turn around and run back towards the house, w/ the coyote chasing THEM. This went on for about 45 min., and the coyote almost caught one of the little ones a couple times. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] The coyote enters the Majan Empire
> > Simon and Connie are English Setters, Simon a big one at about 70 pounds. > Connie is about 40 pounds, and Betty Sue (Jack Russell) is only about 15 > pounds. They are either in the house or in the fenced yard, only loose if > we are outside with them. I hope that Simon and Connie would protect Betty > Sue, as well as the handicapped cats who live inside the fenced yard - all > three are very alert and will bark like crazy if something is on the prowl. > I have four barn cats, and those are the ones I'm worried about. They > refuse to stay inside the fenced yard with the dogs. They do climb trees > pretty well and have the barn loft to hide in. I hope that a coyote can't > climb the ladder to the loft. I'm glad you only let them out when you're out with them. I don't know if coyotes have learned to pack-hunt back your way, but they do it here. One will lure a dog away, and then the others circle back around and close in on the dog. Our neighbor in SW Colorado almost lost their dog to a coyote pack, and their dog was about 50#, so not a small dog. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] a sad thing happened to my old gelding (a bit off topic)
On 9/7/07, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh Bia, what a shame for him - and for you. I'm sorry. > > I have seen some amazing recoveries over the years. I wouldn't write him > off just yet. Sorry to hear about your horse Bia. Hang in there--things happen w/ horses. One vet told me, "you can keep 'em in a padded stall and they'll still find a way to hurt themselves." Don't blame yourself. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
On 9/7/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So most of the difference is in temperament? How about comparing > Icelandics with Pasos and other gaited breeds? Is it all only temperament? > > > This is very vague, Virginia, and I don't know how to clarify it...but I've > never seen such an "old soul" nature, even spirituality maybe, in any breed > as with Icelandic's. I'm not prone to say that sort of thing, and I can't > precisely define it, but there's something there that touches my heart. > Cary has never verbalized it, but I think he feels it too. Weird, huh? This is what I found personally when I was looking at gaited horses: I did not care for the foxtrot, and I didn't like any of the MFTs I looked at. I felt that the Pasos I looked at were very aloof, and at the time I wanted a bigger horse. Rockies were too expensive. So I settled on a TWH. When I started looking into a new gaited horse several years ago, another TWH was out b/c I felt that there was too much variation within the breed--they have been bred by everyone and his brother, gotten too popular, too much "junk" within the breed. I also felt that it would be difficult to find an ethical breeder around my area. I took another look at Icelandics, liked the size, rode one and liked the tolt. I felt that since they aren't as popular as the TWH, there would be a better chance of finding a quality breeder. Maybe I'm off the mark w/ that particular comment, but I'm very happy w/ the colt I have, and I liked the breeder very much. Shadow is sound, healthy, of good quality, and has a good temperament. If I got another horse there would be no question that it would be another Icelandic. Even my husband likes them better and he isn't even a horse person! I love my TWH and we have a great bond, but I wouldn't get another. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Re: The coyote enters the Majan Empire
> > where I've been taking little Frank out for potty training. Frank > looks > > awfully little and vulnerable now...I sure won't be leaving him > unattended > > any time soon. > > > > I would watch it with a small dog. I think they are much more like > to go after small pets than livestock really. I agree. Altho an owl or hawk certainly wouldn't turn down a little pupsnack either. I've heard of birds of prey snatching young puppies or kittens out of yards. I always kept a good eye on my basenjis when they were young. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] The coyote enters the Majan Empire
On 9/6/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'd heard that coyotes are in this area, but I'd never seen one...until > about 20 minutes ago. I was sitting in my office when one strolled by my > window, not more than 20 feet from me. It was bigger than a fox, and not > the normal red color of our foxes, and when I came back and looked up > pictures, I'm sure. Aren't they supposed to be nocturnal? It's 12:30pm > here. We see them regularly here, during the day often. At night they seem to pack together and do their yipping. But I've never had a problem w/ one at all--it's been owls, foxes and stray dogs that have harmed our poultry. The horses don't bother with them, just watch them, and they never bother the horses. They are too busy hunting mice and rabbits in the pasture! I have heard of them pack-hunting a dog, and I've seen one very hungry one go after a neighbor's dog, but other than that, they mind their own business. I wouldn't worry about it. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Mounting a horse - You Tube
> The rider is Laurie Ledbetter. Thank you both, Karen and John. I appreciate having some understanding of the situation. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Mounting a horse
> Susan, Robyn S. has already said that she didn't see the whole message. In fact, if someone can tell me where to find the "extende" message, I can actually read/watch/whatever I'm supposed to do what it is, and maybe be a part of the conversation, instead of being holier than thoud. Maybe next time, instead of a cryptic "reeead the extende message", you can actually say what it is, for those of us apparently too blonde to find it. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Mounting a horse
> Once again, something good and inspiring gets blown > apart by a few of the "holier than thou" on the list. > This is why several people are on my automatic delete > list. Frankly, I get tired of their constant > negativity and I KNOW for a fact others do, too. Why > can't you "holier than thou" folks (and you know who > you are), say "That's nice that a former quadriplegic > has the guts and the nerves to get out and ride". Is > this an everyday occurance that people mount this way? > Get real, people!! HEY!! LET ME TRY THIS AGAIN! I DID NOT SEE THE NOTE THAT THE WOMAN WAS A "QUADRIPLEGIC" ! Get off my case. Robyn S > > > > Susan in NV > Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ > > > > > > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > > > > IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses > > "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, > contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and > unrealistic." > > "All truth passes through three stages. > First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. > Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer > > > [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com > [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com > [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo > [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- "Horses and life; it's all the same to me." ~Buck Brannaman
Re: [IceHorses] Mounting a horse
> > "Endurance rider Laurie returns to the trail seven years after rehab from a > spinal cord contusion. Laurie had over 7000 endurance miles before her > accident and was injured in an ATV accident and was originally told she > would never walk again or leave the bed. She is still considered > quadriplegic" Is this what the "entende" message said? I couldn't find it, sorry. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Mounting a horse
> Read the extende message. What an inspiration! I've never really liked this. I think it's way too hard on a horse to get up w/ a rider on it's back like that. I don't think I'd ever do it. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] BEARS
> We certainly have respect for the bears and give them a wide berth but there > are generally enough orchards around here and berries for them to get enough > to eat. I was lucky. I was also pretty desperate. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] I Think Lalli Can Read
He just picked up his head & made a > beeline for that table at the fastest, smoothest toelt he could muster > stopping briefly to look at the sign before taking very carefully s > fruit from each basket. I was surprised he was so polite about it as > fruit is a favored treat. How funny Kaaren! Amazing how smart and sensitive they are. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Paraplegic Colt
On 9/4/07, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10293 I don't know. There is a definite line for me, and this crosses it. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] BEARS
> Being a good mom and always wanting to teach, I picked up our daughter, and > said, "oh, look at the bear!" and then immediately, thought, "what the heck > am I doing, we gotta get out of here!" > > And we left real quick. Boy, I didn't. Here's my bear story: Back in about 1990 when my husband lived in CA and we were dating, we went to Yosemite to go backpacking one weekend. Well anyone who's been there knows that it's notorious for bear problems, as the bears have learned that humans are suckers. We were told that we had to hang our food bag across a rope strung between 2 tall trees, instead of the usual tie-off method. Since there aren't many tall trees x number of feet apart, my husband said "ah, we'll just tie the bag off to another tree." We had no food in the tent, no personal items, etc. and during the night, a bear came thru our campsite, went around the whole tent sniffing (while I'm lying there thinking, "there's a bear 6 inches from my face!") Then the bear immediately went up the tree where the bag was tied off, swatted the bag down and started ripping. As soon as it went up, we realized what was happening, threw on our boots and ran out of the tent. All I could think of was that the medication I HAD to have for my kidneys was in that bag, and without it--a three hour hike out, plus a several hour drive back--and I could be in deep doo-doo. So I was pretty possessive of that bag! The bear was behind a downed tree, ripping at the bag, we started yelling and throwing rocks, shining our flashlights. The bear came up from behind the downed tree and went "Rrr!!" To which I responded "RR!!" And the bear went "oh, s***! I'm not gonna mess with her!" and turned, still w/ the bag, and took off, breaking the climbing rope that the bag was tied to with this loud "zzing!" We found the remains of the bag the next day, fortunately all our personal items (and meds!) were intact, altho the bear had eaten every speck of food. Some kind hikers shared their trail mix w/ us, as they knew we had nothing. But we had to hike out early, which sucked. Not that I'd ever try to confront a bear like that again, or recommend it. Looking back, it's a pretty funny story, altho at the time it was life or death for me. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Skye-Parelli question-Yo-Yo Game
With others, I really don't even use the yo-yo game, other than > to introduce them to it. If they are tuned in and respectful of space, I > see no reason to over use it. Definitely! Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] BEARS
> Would any of those fillies be related to Maja, Bjola, Ima, or Kola by any > chance? I'd pity any bear that would venture into the "Majan Empire," as > Cary calls it. (She's his favorite mare, so it's not an insult, but a sign > of affection from him.) She doesn't quite have this prey/predator thing > worked out right. :) She is most respectful and friendly towards people, > but not always towards other intruders. She likes cats ok, thank goodness. > I've seen her go after deer, foxes and stray dogs, but that's about all we > have here. I like that--Majan Empire--sounds very suitable for a boss mare! :) My Icelandic is similar w/ dogs--he will pin his ears and chase them away if they get too close. But he doesn't like our cat either, and will try to chase and strike at the cat. Robyn S > > > Karen Thomas > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.3/986 - Release Date: 9/3/2007 > 9:31 AM > > > > > IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses > > "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, > contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and > unrealistic." > > "All truth passes through three stages. > First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. > Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer > > > [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com > [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com > [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo > [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- "Horses and life; it's all the same to me." ~Buck Brannaman
Re: [IceHorses] Skye-Parelli question-Yo-Yo Game
> The goal really is to do everything at LIBERTY, you certanily don't > have a rope then, so, we have to learn to not use the rope when we > have it... Definitely! With respect to the yo yo game, both of mine will back up w/ a finger wiggle, whether they have a halter/rope on or not. Some of the other games are a bit rougher at liberty, but then we haven't practiced them a whole lot. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Skye-Parelli question-Yo-Yo Game
> > if I want my horse to back up I use my body to ask Me too. In the Yo Yo game, you're supposed to start by wiggling your index finger, while straightening your body, leaning forward slightly, making yourself "bigger"--I've seen that too, where people immediately start by flinging the rope back and forth rather viciously, which I don't see at all as being natural horsemanship. Most people in general are impatient and want immediate results. I've gone thru that phase too. But as Judy said recently, don't blame the method for what you see happening. The method is a good one overall. It's that it gets watered down, then people get impatient, and they forget the importance of starting w/ the slightest ask, IMO Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
On 9/3/07, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > A Parelli instructor?!!! With a horse that couldn't even load?! > > > The method isn't the problem; it could be the person, or it could be that > the particular horse needs a different method for that situation. No, I'm not slamming the method by any means. I'm very surprised that something as elementary as trailer loading has been lost on someone certified to teach an NH method. There are things I like about Parelli, other things I disagree strongly with. I'm not a groupie, that's for sure. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
> i also owned and rode horses as a child and teen; i'm a "recycled rider" > after twenty years between. sum toto i have about ten years of riding > behind me, and four of owning, one of which is owning stjarni. i've > also served a formal instructor's apprenticeship and passed a state > licensure exam. > > anybody can come along and say "well you haven't done it as long as this > other person". you haven't owned horses as long as gudmar has, for > instance. but you know, so what? i still exist, the stuff i say is > still true, and declaring me a "new horse owner" is going the ad hominem > route. Then why didnt you say this in the first place?! You wrote that after one year of horse ownership, you no longer consider yourself to be a new horse owner. I would take this to mean that you have only owned a horse for one year. I consider a person who has owned a horse for one year to be a new horse owner. Simple logic, with the information I had. Maybe you can try to be more clear in the future. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
> most anything can be used in a punishing way :/ even bareback and > bridle-less, i bet you can still hurt a horse plenty with your feet. This is really random. I suppose if you got off and kicked the crap out of the horse, yeah, you might hurt him. Or if you wore spurs. But in the first scenario, the horse would never come near you again. In the second, it makes no sense at all that someone who values the self-challenge of bareback/bridleless would ever use either spurs or kick hard w/ their feet. I think your comment is totally pointless. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
On 9/3/07, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We were laughing about that very thing while out doing a conditioning ride > Saturday. I bought Hunter from a woman who was a Parelli instructor A Parelli instructor?!!! With a horse that couldn't even load?! Good Lord. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
> So, look at the method, and not at the people who are using it. I think this is the biggest problem w/ Parelli's method--that so few people have the cash to actually work WITH Pat Parelli. I've taken lessons with several Parelli trainers that are VERY different in their interpretations of the method. I think it can get so watered down that students are taught the wrong thing. Let's face it--there's only so much that you can learn from books and videos--there is no one there to correct you if you are doing it wrong/too hard/too much/too fast. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Horseman or Horse Owner
On 9/3/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh, thanks for that Judy. You have never seen my horses, or me riding > in person. You are not qualified to make that judgement. > > > Was that directed at you, Mic? I just thought she was making a point to > counter what someone else said, claiming to be experienced after owning and > boarding a horse for a year. I also didn't see that it was directed at you, Mic. You're a valuable member on the board and it would be a shame if you left. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Nevzorov
> Here's some videos of Nevzorov: > > http://iceryder.net/nevzorov.html > > According to his chart on this page, it seems like we would be working > towards the goals of Nevzorov: > > http://www.hauteecole.ru/en/nevzorov_haute_ecole.php?sid=0&id=415 Definitely shows another side of NH, altho I don't think it's fair for him to base his knowledge of all of "natural horsemanship" just on Parelli. There are a few that are more sane, and working towards a similar goal. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Nevzorov
> > http://iceryder.net/nevzorov.html > Oh my God. I just watched the beginning of the first video. I am crying. RobynS
Re: [IceHorses] The Icelandic Horse's Image / Whips
On 9/3/07, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > We carry a stick when we ride, doesn't mean we whip them but giving a tap > > on > > the shoulder is better than excessive use of leg or wearing spurs IMO. > > What > > is the problem with carrying a stick, crop, whip??? > > > The problem is when it is used as a punishment (see Nevzorov's note about > whips) and the horse is afraid of it. I agree. And let's face it, many people who use a crop or a whip don't use it as a cueing tool. They use it to smack the crap out of the horse until he goes. I've been guilty of the latter in the distant past. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
And I've > heard so many people say that when they owned horses that they boarded, they > had a whole 'nuther wave of being a newbie to go through once they brought > their horse home. Dealing with ALL the decisions of horse ownership often > doesn't hit home until you are forced to make ALL of the decisions. EXACTLY! Boarding vs. keeping a horse at your own place are two entirely different ownership issues. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Speaking out for the Horse / Let it Begin with me
> Have a look at this Russian guy: > http://www.hauteecole.ru/en/alexander_nevzorov.php Very interesting Mic! I particularly like: "parasitizing on physical abilities of another living being which does not want to be engaged in this sport but forced to it by pain and beating. So why the hell we call it a sport?" Amazingly well-said! I put him up w/ Klaus Hempfling. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] More o/t - Family Portrait
> The husband, btw, is a one-owner model, never thrown away. I've paid dearly > for him over the past 32 years, but he's been worth it. He was a mere 20 > years old when I married the young pup. Good for you! Mine is an original owner too. Americans throw too much away these days. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
> > i'm neither a beginner horsewoman nor, after a year, a new owner. Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I believe I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15 years, and having ridden for over 30. I'd suspect Judy is a bit more knowledgeable than you about Icelandics as well, since she has owned and ridden horses since her childhood, and has apparently visited Iceland on a number of occasions. Is that correct, Judy? Robyn S
