Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
i think icelandics are very sturdy, with large cannon bones and short backs able to carry weight. but i think like people, they can do things physically when young, and any small harm doesnt show, but builds up over time. Like strong young men lifting 100 pound sacks of grain all day. Most of them will have ruined backs by middle age. I just think we need to all be careful and keep an eye out for signs. Signs are (in my experience): 1. even tho well trained to stand for mounting suddenly MUST take a step for balance as soon as the rider is on. 2. a swaying and slight buckle when first mounted, especially in the rear. 3. Excessive tiredness/sweatiness/exhaustion when other horses in same shape are doing ok. this is particularly a dangerous sign. You MUST get off and give them a break when they get overheated/exhausted like this. 4. A growing aversion to being caught/ridden 5. and if these signs are ignored? signs of pain, bucking, bolting, biting at the riders legs when mounted. remember backs are funny. you can lift something funny and go ouch and everything is fine, then a week/month later all you do it turn to answer the phone and wham you can't even move. Imagine a rider on you if that happened. you would do whatever you had to do to get rid of them, right? also, like Karen said, the way a person rides makes a huge difference. A sack of potatoes wallering around up there is adding stress exponentially as opposed to a good rider. I told my husband at least a dozen times to not let himself be thrown back when a horse starts up a tall deep sandy hill and he would go, oh, yeah right, then one day his horse started up a hill too fast and he just let himself be thrown back in the saddle and I just STEAMED and told him to get off his *(*( horse if he couldn't help him out at least... of course a huge fight but he started paying attention, and now doesnt ride that horse, his horse, anymore until he loses weight, but we have another great horse he rides now until he can lose weight. only trouble is now his HORSE is getting fat :) gotta pony him i guess! also, heavy riders need nice calm horses because balance isnt as good. Believe me, I know! I aint no lite weight myself! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just think we need to all be careful and keep an eye out for signs. Signs are (in my experience): 1. even tho well trained to stand for mounting suddenly MUST take a step for balance as soon as the rider is on. 2. a swaying and slight buckle when first mounted, especially in the rear. 3. Excessive tiredness/sweatiness/exhaustion when other horses in same shape are doing ok. this is particularly a dangerous sign. You MUST get off and give them a break when they get overheated/exhausted like this. 4. A growing aversion to being caught/ridden 5. and if these signs are ignored? signs of pain, bucking, bolting, biting at the riders legs when mounted. also, like Karen said, the way a person rides makes a huge difference. also, heavy riders need nice calm horses because balance isnt as good. Believe me, I know! I aint no lite weight myself! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo I like your post a lot Janice.I like my horse to stand nicley when I get on, it is when I am the most nervous because of my bad knee...after I get on I am pretty good to go.some of my Icelandics stand with one foot resting when I get onI like that, it tells me that my weight is not a big deal, but I know it would still be great if I lost more..which I have, 2 sizes this past 9 monthsmore to come off hopfully We have a Big Big gelding her right now who is the stoutest Icelandic I have ever seen, his cannon bone is very very short, I should go measure it today...they are also very big, he is big everywhere, and tall, we named him Trausti, he came with another name, but we changed it, he did not need the energy of being called an elf, so we gave him a good name, one he would fit into, and he has.anyway I am thinking of keeping him for myself, he has no papers, I do know his pedigree, but he is so big, so handsome and has a smooth tolt and a good attitude. When Sally gets on him his foot is resting and all things are goodI am hoping he will be my parade drill team horse...and one of the reasons is because he is so strong, big and beautiful (chestnut with flaxen mane and tail) and his attitude is wonderful. I sold a mare because I felt like I was not the best rider for her, she is one of the smaller Icelandics here, and she was getting close to 20 when I sold her.it was hard, but I felt it was best for her and her comfort. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
RE: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
sounds like my Tivar, the stoutest icelandic I have ever seen :) Ok, Janice...I know you only had eyes for Tivar when you were here, and that's a very good thing, but Falki is taller and a little bigger than Tivar. So, you have seen one stouter one! Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: b One young lady from Iceland is currently writing to me with the impression that the Icelandics are the strongest horses in the world because Monty Roberts said to her The Icelandic horse is very small, but he is so strong. well. quantify that. stronger than what? Stonger than a chihuahua? An ox? a similarly sized pony? a similarly sized horse? the smell of a used sock after a long ride? than a sock you have accidentally wet while draining the baby geese's wading pool? Nasi is stong, but probably only 1/2 as strong as Tivar. And Tivar is very strong, probably as Strong as jaspar but not as strong as fox. tivar is ten times stronger than Gallant Boy, who is probably not as strong as Monty Roberts or even Linda Parelli. That remark is sort of a show bizzy make everybody happy BS remark probably... janice -- yipie tie yie yo All he said was they are very small, but are so strong. Whats wrong with that. Its true. To a lot of the american public, BIG is Strong.not small. At least he sounds like he respects them as a horse..all he said was so strong, he did not compare...they are strong. Do we want people to say they are small and weak horses? I would be a little miffed about that. We just helped our friend sell one of her geldings.to a friend/client who has been a pro polo player, riden qtr horses on ranches, and now rides a big and tall TB gelding who is old (17...) We said we know of a horse that you will love. He was concerned about the Icelandic size...so we said well this one is on the large side for an Icelandic, he is very red and nicely trainedwe really think you will enjoy riding him. Well he takes the 3 hour drive to our side of the island (he has never been over her) he steps out of his truck and sees Drifonde.well I could see he was disapointedthe horse was so small how will he ever carry him very well? Well after his 1 hour trail ride, he came back with a glow on his face, Wow! He is a small horse with a Big engine. He is buying him this week.he got it right away, the horse is small by most peoples standards, but he was strong, willing, balanced, could do his natural gait.he has watched the videos that we give out to prospective buyers about 4 times already and has looked the the picture book that a lot of you have slammed here. Its a great book filled with so many wonderful photos.a book of dreaming I call it. I like to find photos of my mares and Stallions Sires, I have a lot of fun with it. This guy has also rode TWH and MFT, and never had that response and they were much bigger horses...he got the Icelandic thing right away. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
One young lady from Iceland is currently writing to me with the impression that the Icelandics are the strongest horses in the world because Monty Roberts said to her The Icelandic horse is very small, but he is so strong. And when is it that Monty Roberts became an expert on Icelandic horses? I don't know of any study that has been done to verify how much Icelandics can or cannot carry (or pull... there is the rumor that they can pull 1.6 times their weight, or 1.6 times what other breeds can pull, which I seriously doubt the second part). I think I could probably pull 1.7 times my weight... does that make me stronger than an Icelandic? I'm pretty sure that horses who pull carts, pull more than 1.6 times their weight. Back to Monty Roberts... he's invited to Iceland; he sees that they have a lot of pride in their horses; they say these are strong horses, and he agrees with them by saying The Icelandic horse is very small, but he is so strong. What else could he do? It's the PC thing to do / say, isn't it? Is he going to say, Well, maybe, but not as strong as Quarter Horses or Thoroughbreds? Does that mean the Icelandic is stronger than any other horse? or any other pony? Is a Welsh pony strong? Is a Shetland strong? I think all horses are strong. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
Oh Janice, I don't know. I haven't seen Linda P, but did pay to watch Monty Roberts. He was carrying a little more condition* than I'd like to see on a man his size. Nancy *That's 4-H/FFA speak for being fat, which , sadly, Monty could also say about me
RE: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
Nasi is stong, but probably only 1/2 as strong as Tivar. Good phrasing, Janice. And Nasi will be much stronger in a few years, when he's fully mature...and Tivar is probably stronger now than when you first got him, because you're riding him regularly. And if you added driving into Tivar's exercise program, you'd broaden his strength even more. We could go on and on. Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
Kinda like Linda Parelli taking Centered Riding techniques, slapping on her own name, and making it seem like she invented the concept. Well, except if you really want to get literal about it, there's probably not much new in the Centered Riding books either, other than the expression of the ideas - the images. Centered Riding is simply good basic riding, mostly based on centuries-old basic dressage principals - I LOVE the first book, mainly because I can remember the images so well. Sometimes, I don't really think there's too much new in horsemanship or riding...but some people DO still sometimes come up with some new and clearer ways of expressing valid concepts. And as dense as I can be sometimes, I appreciate anyone who can make the light bulbs turn on in my brain, even if they only say the same things with new words. Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
agrees with them by saying The Icelandic horse is very small, but he is so strong. What else could he do? It's the PC thing to do / say, isn't it? Sorry, I just don't like Monty Roberts. He's a liar, and his methods are gimmicky. So I don't appreciate how he gains credibility among lay people (ie, non-horse people) who've read his books and think O Monty Roberts said it so it must be true! I don't care for his methods. Many, many years ago, I had said, somewhere on the website, that his methods weren't necessary for Icelandic Horses since most don't need to be run around a round pen. I guess he read that and it must have stayed with him, since subsequent to that time, when he returned from Iceland, he put something on his site to the effect of and they said this wouldn't work with Icelandics. I don't know if you got to see this video: http://www.hestafrettir.is/veftv/default.asp?MovieID=170CategoryID=18 which is a young guy in Iceland practicing some of the MR stuff. I wrote to him to ask what he's doing in parts (i.e. sitting on the horse and having someone pull / yank on the horse's head to the side). He wrote back once, but when I asked why he never wrote back again. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
Karen, you're absolutely right. Have you ever read Xenephon? The Art of Horsemanship? It was written 2300 years ago and still makes sense. I have thought that what these modern day clinicians have to their credit is the ability to put words to physical activity and have it make sense to a listener. That's a pretty good communication trickl. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
I guess he read that and it must have stayed with him, since subsequent to that time, when he returned from Iceland, he put something on his site to the effect of and they said this wouldn't work with Icelandics. The Great They, huh? THEY said So how does it feel to be They, Judy? g Boy I guess ol' Monty sure proved you wrong, eh? Interesting video. At least they're thinking outside the box a bit. I saw a great video a couple years ago of an Icelander influenced by Parelli and Brannaman/Hunt, it seemed. One thing he did that I really liked was taking his colts sideways around the outside of the roundpen. He did this from the ground. What a great stretching exercise as well as a groundwork exercise! I've used this a number of times now--has been a good stretch for my TWH. Robyn
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
Wow...according to this article an Icelandic Horse can carry up to 1/3 of it's weight by the age of four. Hum...that would mean a 800 lb IcePony would be able to carry about 266 lbs. Hum. Doesn't that depend on the horse. I am not sure Scooter could carry my husband for long. He weighs 210. It depends on the horse; their conformation, their musculature, length of back, spring of ribs, whether they are in shape or not, etc. Maybe an Icelandic Horse can carry up to 1/3 of it's weight, but does that mean without long-term effects? Has any study been done to validate that? In Iceland, the horses don't have long lives in general; if a horse is off for some reason, there's not a lot of investigation to determine why and to look for a cure. This type of statement has to be taken with a grain of salt, and some common sense. One young lady from Iceland is currently writing to me with the impression that the Icelandics are the strongest horses in the world because Monty Roberts said to her The Icelandic horse is very small, but he is so strong. So... what does that mean? How about a discussion on this topic? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
One young lady from Iceland is currently writing to me with the impression that the Icelandics are the strongest horses in the world because Monty Roberts said to her The Icelandic horse is very small, but he is so strong. And when is it that Monty Roberts became an expert on Icelandic horses? Robyn
RE: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
And when is it that Monty Roberts became an expert on Icelandic horses? When he said they were the strongest horses in the world...? (Ok, I don't know if he even said that, but things often start that way.) Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
I would like to learn more about it before I purchase a horse for Kevin. Is it possible for him to ride an Icelandic. I don't think Scooter can handle him for long. He seems so big on him. Lorraine There are a lot of factors to consider. How big is your husband? How long does he ride? Is he a good rider? Will you be able to easily find a suitable saddle for him that will work on an Icelandic? What kind of footing will you ride on, and at what gaits? We thought this out carefully before we bought a horse for my husband, but they do well together. I wrote some notes that I put on my website, but Judy has more on hers. http://iceryder.net/weight.html It's a complicated subject, with no black and white answers, but one good article is this one: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=5190 Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/829 - Release Date: 6/2/2007 5:26 PM
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
On 6/3/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are a lot of factors to consider. How big is your husband? How long does he ride? Is he a good rider? Will you be able to easily find a suitable saddle for him that will work on an Icelandic? What kind of footing will you ride on, and at what gaits? Listen to Karen on this! What she is saying is so true! I am no lightweight but my husband is very heavy, at least 250. He has a stocky short horse with a short back that he had no problem with til he got as heavy as he is now, and his horse doesnt seem to mind really, he just gets worn out way way earlier than other horses on the ride and when my husband would mount him he would HAVE to take steps to balance and you would see him stagger. So my husband isn't riding him til he loses weight, which is sad, he loves his horse! But if you were going to have any silly rule like that, I think if I went by my Fox and my husband riding him, you could say a horse can carry 1/5 its weight. Because Fox weighs about 1300 and is 17.hh or maybe a little less and he seems to not notice there is a big man on him in any way. Also his back is long enough to hold the 18.5 inch heavy 30 pound saddle my husband rides in. But the 1/3 rule is bull. Have someone video when the person gets on the horse, if the back dips, the rear end sways and goes down a little, the horse HAS to take steps to get balance, then the rider is too heavy for that horse! period! and even if he CAN carry the rider a couple of hours, it is probably doing harm to him structurally... I remember one time someone on a ride made a comment about my husbands horse stepping while he mounted and my husband said I know I need to work on that, thats when I couldnt bite my tongue anymore and on the way home I told my husband I could see signs he was too heavy for Traveller now! And he said he knew, he had been suspecting it. It was a sad day but I was proud of him for doing the right thing! but now he loves Fox and has two horses instead of one :) Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
--- Raven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow...according to this article an Icelandic Horse can carry up to 1/3 of it's weight by the age of four. Hum...that would mean a 800 lb IcePony would be able to carry about 266 lbs. Hum. Doesn't that depend on the horse. I am not sure Scooter could carry my husband for long. He weighs 210. Lorraine Happy Trails from Lori Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433
[IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
Wow...according to this article an Icelandic Horse can carry up to 1/3 of it's weight by the age of four. Hum...that would mean a 800 lb IcePony would be able to carry about 266 lbs. Hum. A comment from the article Eggert told me that the tölt is a 4-beat lateral gait where the horse always has at least one foot on the ground, and that I needed to sit a little farther behind in the saddle than I normally would, and to lean slightly back. http://tinyurl.com/ys4yo8 Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn, the American Ice Pony Dixie Chick, the Barn Goddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
