[IceHorses] Parelli bit
>>If PNH horses are having pinned ears and bothered tails, something is wrong, but is it the program? or the application of the program? Judy Ryder<< That's what I love about combining PNH with clicker! It's so positive. Vinur is a cutie. Love that "backwards saddle" on his back. Kopar's real name is Vinur. Trish
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit
If PNH horses are having pinned ears and bothered tails, something is wrong, but is it the program? or the application of the program? Or the baggage the horse arrived with? Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit
For any program, I think a consumer needs to have a certain level of knowledge to be able to judge the program, see what parts they want to use, and what parts they don't want to use. You don't have to buy into every thing in any one program. Things change over the years. If PNH horses are having pinned ears and bothered tails, something is wrong, but is it the program? or the application of the program? Perhaps it has become too competitive and people are rushing into using higher phases and more equipment, rather than working on "feel" and patience and increasing their knowledge of how to ask softly. Here is Vinur, from over 10 years ago, doing PNH and clicker training. There's no pinned ears or bothered tail: http://goodhorsemanship.blogspot.com/2008/07/judy-and-vinur.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit (was Bit Sizer/Bit shopping)
Well, the ever-pleasant Fugly people don't like it, (surprise, surprise, eh?) Here's a thread from March where they are discussing this bit setup:... I should warn 'yall, they talk more about the horse personalities thing than the bit, but it does get mentioned here and there -- and it's an ungawdly long thread! It might be more productive to either 1) ignore the bit totally and stick with a well-known, gentle bit, or no bit, or 2) go straight to the Parelli site and read about the "horsenalities" directly from the source. I absolutely despise that "Fugly" site. I'm sure they'd say that every one of our Icelandic's are ugly - too hairy, thick necks, no withers, blah, blah, blah... Those people don't seem to like anything. (FWIW, I don't care for that particular Parelli bit or their saddles, but I learned that on my own by reading their site, not some watered-down negative blog.) Reading about Parelli on the Fugly Site rates right up there with learning dressage from the Icelanders if you ask me...why waste your time on a long thread on that site? Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit (was Bit Sizer/Bit shopping)
> Well, the ever-pleasant Fugly people don't like it, (surprise, surprise, > eh?) Here's a thread from March where they are discussing this bit setup: > I should warn 'yall, they talk more about the horse personalities thing than the bit, but it does get mentioned here and there -- and it's an ungawdly long thread! -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli bit (was Bit Sizer/Bit shopping)
Well, the ever-pleasant Fugly people don't like it, (surprise, surprise, eh?) Here's a thread from March where they are discussing this bit setup: http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/2008/03/do-you-think-parelli-even-knows-big.html -- Renee M.
[IceHorses] Parelli bit (was Bit Sizer/Bit shopping)
- Original Message - From: "Robyn Hood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> . >I would imagine the bit would give you a lot of control since it is basically a type of Boucher snaffle which gives pressure to the poll and also pressure on the nose. I don't know the weight of the reins they recommend but to me I think you would want to have some instruction to use it.< Thank you Robyn for explaining this set up to me -- the pictures were confusing (to me anyway, I can't make head nor tail of a sewing pattern either). At first glance, however, I thought this bit / set-up looked like something rather medieval. I know a lot of folks like Parelli and seem to have success with the games and methods he prescribes-- and I always think I should see what it's all about -- but gimmicky inventions like this make me shy away. Well, that and the arrogant comments I've read from the Missus about wearing helmets. . .Stupid. Made me think she's already fallen off a few times and landed on her head. Oh well. To each his own. -- Renee M.
[IceHorses] Parelli Celebration in UK
August 9 / 10, 2008: http://goodhorsemanship.blogspot.com/2008/07/parelli-demo-in-uk.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli USA Tour Video
http://listen-to-your-horse.blogspot.com/2008/05/parelli-usa-tour.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli Videos
Here are some short youtube Parelli videos: http://iceryder65.blogspot.com/2008/04/parelli-natural-horsemanship.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli Podcasts
Here are several parelli podcasts: http://podcast.parelli.com/Parelli%20Natural%20Horsemanship/Podcast/Archive.html http://podcast.parelli.com/Parelli%20Natural%20Horsemanship/Podcast/Podcast.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli Free DVD
https://www.parelli.com/freedvd.faces Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] parelli stuff
I am not a huge parelli groupie. I take what I need and leave the rest from all the gurus... But I am doing the seven games with all my horses, we are just barely along in it really, I have so many horses and so little time. But in the yoyo game, when you bend and look at the horses rear end and tug and they come to you... some get it fast, some get it slow, some like the go away part better than the come here part but the coolest thing This weekend Stonewall was the other side of the paddock gazing at me and I bent at the waist and looked at his rear end and he instantly, immediately, happily, took off coming to me :) He walked right up to me and stopped about three feet away, licked and chewed, eyes soft and warm :) It was like "Yes ma'am, you called?" That was such a thrill! Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli TV on-line
Hi Judy, >>>That will be nice. I've been thinking that I just might have to make a trip up there and show you guys how to video, and use the video software, and upload to youtube! (but not in the snow!) Definitely come up - and definitely not in the snow. I have software but am just not good enough about using it and don't really have time to figure it out. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli TV on-line
> I will try and do a video of balancing a person so you can see what > happens. That will be nice. I've been thinking that I just might have to make a trip up there and show you guys how to video, and use the video software, and upload to youtube! (but not in the snow!) Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli TV on-line
http://horseandcountry.opusstream.net/Horsemanship/83_138 I like the part in that one where she woman plays the games with the horse, with a bread-tie between the leadline and the halter, to ensure that the pressure isn't too strong. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli TV on-line
Hi Judy, >>>In the first one, there's a part where Linda talks about the seat; interesting. Yes, the part about the seat is interesting and I was glad to hear Linda explain it because I thought I was just hearing it incorrectly from people taking things out of context, but apparently I wasn't. This position makes people feel as if they are more secure but it feels like deadweight on a horse's back. The extremely 'starched' position she shows is just as bad but there is somewhere in the middle - neutral pelvis which actually puts your body in a position that triggers your core muscles to engage without gripping with your thighs or knees. Peggy Cummings does an exercise where a person is on all fours and she sits on their back - in 'neutral' you don't feel the weight - when you sit with your pelvis tucked too far under (as shown) it puts the horse on the forehand and feels really heavy - same goes if you are too starched with a tight hollow back. I will try and do a video of balancing a person so you can see what happens. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli TV on-line
> http://horseandcountry.opusstream.net/Horsemanship/83_138 In the first one, there's a part where Linda talks about the seat; interesting. And here's the second one: http://horseandcountry.opusstream.net/Horsemanship/84_84 Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli TV on-line
Here's some free Parelli shows on-line: http://horseandcountry.opusstream.net/Horsemanship/83_138 Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli Cradle System
On Jan 30, 2008 6:48 PM, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I took a quick look at it the other day, and I wasn't impressed. I downloaded all of the instructions (17 pages!) to reread when my mind is functioning properly! ;) I don't think I like it as much as I thought I did, as it seems to have a gag action, and they're marketing it as being good for the first bridling! I love the braided browband though. > Hope you're better soon. Thanks! I just hope I'm cleared to drive and then ride soon! Steph -- "Brutality begins where skill ends." "Correctly understood, work at the lunge line is indispensable for rider and horse from the very beginning through the highest levels." Von Niendorff
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli Cradle System
>>> On another board I'm on this is being bashed and made fun of (okay, all things Parelli are fair game there). But, this looks to have some merit, does anyone here have it, and what are the thoughts of the group on it? I took a quick look at it the other day, and I wasn't impressed. I like the Parelli's groundwork program a lot. I like most of Linda's "Fluidity" riding theories. I enjoy watching Pat work with horses. But, I'm not terribly impressed with their saddles (rip offs but not improvements of the Balance saddles), their saddle pads (don't care for air pads) and this bridle bit seems rather harsh, considering everything they supposedly stand for. I honestly think they should reconsider their tack design business. >>> Steph (recouping from a major concussion from an accident at work, Hope you're better soon. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 10:20 PM
[IceHorses] Parelli Cradle System
On another board I'm on this is being bashed and made fun of (okay, all things Parelli are fair game there). But, this looks to have some merit, does anyone here have it, and what are the thoughts of the group on it? You guys know I'm not a Parelli fan, but this looks interesting. ;) Steph (recouping from a major concussion from an accident at work, this is the first day I can make complete sentences WOOOH!) -- "Brutality begins where skill ends." "Correctly understood, work at the lunge line is indispensable for rider and horse from the very beginning through the highest levels." Von Niendorff
[IceHorses] Parelli tour
I just ordered my tickets for the two upcoming Parelli tour stops in NC this spring - Williamston in early February and Fletcher in March. I probably won't go to both, but I'll be ready just in case. These are always fun weekends. And, believe it or not, you can go and NOT buy any of the tempting merchandise. :) Admission is pretty reasonable so if you stay away from the "store" area, it can be an educational and inexpensive weekend. To see if there's a stop in your area, you can look here: http://www.parelli.com/product.faces?catId=7 Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008 2:04 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli Who?
One of the things that Mark Rashid has written that I really like is about the trainer's dirrerent approach to different horses, depending on their temperment. How refreshing! It's not a cookie cutter "fix" after all. Nancy IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli Who?
>>> In some horses it would be a pain, in others it's an achievement. Context is everything. When the late, great gait expert, Lee Ziegler, was alive and active on the gaitedhorse list, she took some ribbing from list members because it seemed like at least 75% of all of her answers to list member questions began with, "That depends..." In no way do I think Lee being vague purposely - she was a very direct and to-the-point person. But, that simply is a fact of horsemanship - it depends! Maybe that's a quote for today. From Lee Ziegler, "That depends..." :) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.6/1192 - Release Date: 12/21/2007 1:17 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli Who?
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:00:05 -0500, you wrote: >It was a red-letter moment for me when my new project horse, Angie, decided >she could graze while on the lead line. Same with my Kalsi. As was the day he decided he trusted me enough to rub his itchy face on me after a ride. In some horses it would be a pain, in others it's an achievement. Context is everything. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli Who?
>>> I could post it on youtube and say "here is my horse stonewall, he is >>> trained to lick carpets clean." but i bet if i did some yahoo would post a >>> comment that he seemed distracted and not disciplined enough and that i was >>> a lousy trainer and had taught him all wrong. :) HA! I saw someone respond to those Icey-Parelli you-tube videos by asking what Parelli says to do to correct horses who nose-dive to grab grass. I was a little taken aback by that question. For goodness sakes, grass-grabbing, or grazing, is such a context-sensitive thing, that it can be a very good sign in some horses, in some situations, or it can be a bad habit in a few situations. I certainly wouldn't want to use a trainer that has a one-size-fits all answer to all "problems" - especially when the problem might actually be a good thing in some situations! Context is everything. It was a red-letter moment for me when my new project horse, Angie, decided she could graze while on the lead line. She's never had a lot of human one-on-one time. She's interested in people, but came to us very, very wary of people. When I'd put a halter on her, she'd behave - almost too well in some ways. It was like she was afraid to do anything that might possibly elicit a reprimand, and thus she was almost robot-like the first few times I took her out to play with her. A horse that won't graze on the lead is probably either nervous, unconfident, or maybe even downright terrified - or he might be sick. Who wants that? I don't. For what it's worth, I know that Pat Parelli doesn't always see grazing as something to be "corrected"- they even mention it in the early videos as something to use as part of the "friendly game." Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.6/1192 - Release Date: 12/21/2007 1:17 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli Who?
>>> So - today was the day. I was right. He was not tuned in. He had some good moments, no great moments, but we ended up with him relaxed and his eyes soft. I really know it helps him, but sometimes I fall into a pattern of just getting on and riding him. I think that's too easy for all of us to do. Isn't it just the coolest thing when you see one change from tense and not tuned in to having "soft eyes"? >>>He is capable of working off lead in a way that brings tears to my eyes. Today, he stayed with me for one turn of the arena and then just sort of wandered off. It's not always easy to keep them interested. I know we can bore the horses with "games"...or with trail riding, or with on-the-rail (or on-the-track) arena work, or anything that's too repetitive, or by doing anything with a rote attitude. Sina was a good horse for me to start the seven games with - very young, just barely stared, the best student, totally gifted in her ability to learn, but also prone to boredom. She loves to trail ride, but she will also get a little pissy if I take her out on the same trails, for several days in a row...just as she will get pissy if I over-drill her in the "seven games." She needs a challenge - maybe some gait work one day, some groundwork but in a varied, interesting way on another day or as a warm up to riding, and some relaxed trail riding. If she doesn't go on the trail for a few weeks, you can really see her perk up, ready and willing to get out and see the world, but that can be boring for her too. Angie also has a good brain, but since she was left pretty much alone until she was 11, it will be interesting to see how different she will be. So far, she's blowing my socks off with her interest and willingness to learn. I took her with the assumption that she'd likely never be a riding horse, but now I'm not convinced of that. She's been here only three weeks, with only the normal daily handling, with a few short one-on-one sessions on the weekends. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.6/1192 - Release Date: 12/21/2007 1:17 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli Who?
On 12/21/07, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > He is capable of working off lead in a way that brings tears to my eyes. > Today, he stayed with me for one turn of the arena and then just sort of > wandered off. > > Nancy > haha. you shoulda videod it and posted it on youtube for critique. i would take up for you :) today we took up a rug in our entry way thats been needing cleaning so long we decided to just throw it away. We rolled it up and my husband took it out and put it in the back of his truck. I had the horses out in front and as I sat on the porch watching, stonewall walked over and started licking it like a cat, like it was just the best thing he ever tasted, then he bit it and tried to drag it out and when he couldnt he started lifting a foot and trying to paw it so it would drop out. I wished I had videod it. I could post it on youtube and say "here is my horse stonewall, he is trained to lick carpets clean." but i bet if i did some yahoo would post a comment that he seemed distracted and not disciplined enough and that i was a lousy trainer and had taught him all wrong. :) Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] Parelli Who?
It's been a while since I took time to do any ground work with the TWH Hunter. I can usually tell when he is beginning to need my rather uninformed version of the 7 Games. So - today was the day. I was right. He was not tuned in. He had some good moments, no great moments, but we ended up with him relaxed and his eyes soft. I really know it helps him, but sometimes I fall into a pattern of just getting on and riding him. He is capable of working off lead in a way that brings tears to my eyes. Today, he stayed with me for one turn of the arena and then just sort of wandered off. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli and others, videos
> Reviewing concepts we already "know": I wonder if there's something there > along the lines of that ability we have to always ride a bike, even though > we've not done much bike riding recently. I can never remember what it's > called, kinesthetic memory maybe. I usually think of it as muscle memory, > but of course there's more to it than that. > > I think it is what enables folks who have ridden lots and lots of horses > (Dorance brothers and Mark Rashid come to mind) to react appropriately and > automatically to their horses. Nancy, I find this very interesting.. I grew up riding lots of horses, of all ages and abilities, Arabians or Half Arabs. I showed, trained and rode lots of trails... I have ridden since I was 3 years of age... I lived on horses and for horses... it was my life... Then life changed, I still ride, but not like I did then.. so now at 49 I don't have the Body instincts I did then, I am also heavier then I was then, it is coming off slowly, I am still a great rider, and do some crazy fast, flying riding, I still zig and Zag, however, I don't think I have the reactions I did when I put the hours in and lived on the horses like I did when I was a kid/young adult When I do put those hours in, and ride, ride ride, the body memory returns very quickly...but I never feel that I am as good as I was when I was riding the variety of horses I was riding and rode with a coach, usually my mom and dad... Now I don't ride year round either, as I don't have an indoor or the sandy ground to ride on outside... humm, I also don't seem to recover from this crazy cold weather, who said we were having global warming, has not been to the Midwest this year, we woke up to -5 below with -12 windchills... -- I and my horses love our track system, take a look~~~ http://picasaweb.google.com/dakota.charm/TrackForHorses
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli and others, videos
Karen, you can be the test case. It would be amazing if watching the videos would somehow inject that memory into your body. I don't think it will... not literally. But we have to keep in mind how each of us learns, and having a daughter that's a polar opposite from me made me VERY aware of those differences. Emily and I essentially started riding at the same time. Quickly, the instructor realized that Emily is phenomenally adept at learning things visually. Emily is an artist and athlete - I'm an Engineer with a tiny bit of artist floating around inside somewhere. For instance, I can watch someone request and get a flying lead change all day...and I can pretty easily figure out and process the steps...but it is a big struggle for me to make my body do what my brain understands. In contrast, the instructor would sometimes ask Emily to get off the horse, and she'd get on and quickly demonstrate what she wanted her to do and voila...Emily knew how to do it. Believe me, that was humbling for me when Emily was about 9 and I was in my mid-30's. What SEEMS to work best for me is to take time to analyze the mechanics of what is involved with an action, and get it ingrained in my brain - I need my "muscle memory" first at a mental level. I can learn a good bit of theory from books and videos. Then, I have to make myself go into a "soft focus" state of mind, actually on a horse, where I don't let myself get hung up on the details, and try to "allow" my body to do what my brain already knows. Learning about riding this way would not work at all for my daughter...but then, there's no way I can learn the way that's easiest for her either. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1177 - Release Date: 12/7/2007 1:11 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli and others, videos
Reviewing concepts we already "know": I wonder if there's something there along the lines of that ability we have to always ride a bike, even though we've not done much bike riding recently. I can never remember what it's called, kinesthetic memory maybe. I usually think of it as muscle memory, but of course there's more to it than that. I think it is what enables folks who have ridden lots and lots of horses (Dorance brothers and Mark Rashid come to mind) to react appropriately and automatically to their horses. Karen, you can be the test case. It would be amazing if watching the videos would somehow inject that memory into your body. I read a lot in a very wide range of instructors (Podhajsky to Dorrance). but I don't think I will have ridden enough horse in my lifetime for the automatic response ever to be there completely. I've been riding 44 years and I think I may have ridden 30 horses. Successful professional trainers will ride more horses than that every year. Let us know how it works? Nancy
[IceHorses] Parelli and others, videos
The name of the Parelli video that I thought might be interesting for people looking for a sampler of Parelli ideas is called "Safe Ride." It has chapters called, Pre-ride, Saddling, Bridling, Mount/Dismount, Fluidity, and Fear. These chapters are NOT just for beginners. During the Pre-Ride section, there is at least a cursory introduction to the "Seven Games" - the basic terms that Parelli uses to explain his version of Natural Horsemanship. I also have the old versions of the full videos, The Seven Games, and Fluidity, but also bought the new ones of the same name. That's just me though - I have ridden in a number of NH clinics over the past 15 years, one with a Parelli instructor, several by Dave Seay, so I think I understand the basics pretty well - but many times I need inspiration on how to apply the basics to my young horses. (To me, knowing something on a theoretical level can be MUCH different from knowing how to apply the idea in practice...) At this point, I don't feel the need to go to the clinics so much, but I certainly need to be able to view and review ideas as new situations pop up. So, of the newer Parelli videos, the ones I just bought are 1) Safe Ride, 2) Seven Games, 3) Fluidity, and 4) Impulsion. >From a totally different interest, I also transferred my Jane Savoie videos, "Lessons with Jane" onto my iPod. Next, I'll convert some of my Liz Graves DVDs. My tastes in equestrian videos is eclectic, to say the least... :) Anyone got any other videos that they'd care to recommend? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1177 - Release Date: 12/7/2007 1:11 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli 7 Games
Here's some description of the 7 games, along with a few pictures, and a video: http://iceryder.net/7games.html There is a link to other Parelli students' videos at the bottom of the page. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli 7 Games
On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 04:33:32AM -, blessiowner wrote: > I had to laugh at your comment. For the past month, Blessi has been > doing the exact same thing. It is like he is telling me "Enough with > the basics, let's do the more advanced stuff." My instructor has > complimented me several times on how floaty and effortless that some > of the lateral work has been recently. I have had to confess that > Blessi has anticipated some of the commands and just done the side > pass or turn on the forehand. I am not sure if he is responding to > her verbal commands or recognition of the set up/location for the > more advanced moves. *grin* recognizing the setup is half of training, of course. no reason your horse should wait for nine possible aids strung together when he can tell from the first what you're going to ask for :) > I also had the sense that he thinks I am not fun anymore. i've been trying to be more playful with stjarni, but he is not a big fan of the parelli games (we used to have two boarders who did them; one's horse really seemed to like it, one didn't, and stjarni just seems to find them a bit dull). he does like wandering around on back roads, jumping, stuff involving *equipment* like cones and poles and flags, and a good gallop. i guess i'm trying to let him show me what *he* finds fun, and recognize and participate in that, rather than trying to teach him new games. (we had the same experience with the bouncy-ball toy that all my barn owner's horses love as with parelli -- stjarni will do the thing once or twice, and then looks at me with that plaintive "can we do something fun now?" face :) good luck finding stuff you BOTH find fun! --vicka
[IceHorses] Parelli Tour Dates
http://www.parelli.com/product.faces?catId=7 Find a Savvy Day close to you. Judy
[IceHorses] Parelli Enews
http://enews.parelli.com/ Judy
[IceHorses] Parelli on the Future of NH
http://podcast.parelli.com/Parelli%20Natural%20Horsemanship/Podcast/0F6ABB1A-D2FB-47E8-94B9-A564401CA419.html Judy
[IceHorses] Parelli E-News
http://enews.parelli.com/ Judy
[IceHorses] Parelli E-News
http://enews.parelli.com/ Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
On 9/3/07, Skye and Sally ~Fire Island <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I totally agree with you on that Judy. I start off using the > smallest bit of pressure, whatever it is, wheather we are taslking > about backing up, crossing over, cues with my seat...everything I do > on the ground I want it to be able to be transferred to the > saddle. > > The lightest first , then I ask a little 'louder' the next time. Skye, what you are saying with lightest first and body language is what Pat and Linda say, I think in one of the DVD's Linda says something about wishing she had ears, Use the "Mother in Law look" is said all the time, relaxing and cocking a leg, Trusting the horse, standing in one place, not moving your feet firstSmile, all are examples of body language... some are human ones, like smile, but a horse learns what that means... Using 4 oz's of pressure, ( I used more the 8 lbs with my puppy, like I said, I have to get lighter, but I knew that, lifting my 8 lb puppy in the air, simply demonstrated just how heavy I am, I was SHOCKED ) Lightest first, Which can be a simple look, WITH intention... The other half of this is to make sure that they are watching for the intention, a horse has to know the difference between swinging a rope because you want hem to move, or swinging the rope cause you are simply swinging a rope cause you can. When a horse starts to "ASK" for direction, that is Communication... When a horse learns the difference between your intention or your just doing something they become braver and calmer, the learn the to know that when you are reading a map, or putting on your helmet or putting on a slicker, ETC that they don't have to do anything, but if you used that map or slicker as an Aid to ask them to move over to the gate, that they would know, oh, now she/he wants me to move over here or step there, they do it cause you ask them and they respect you and trust you... we all want horses who are sensitive to what we are asking them, ie LIGHT, But we also want them to stand still when we are doing something, there is such a balance there... some horses are way to sensitive and need lots of Friendly game with lots of things and lots of creativity, others are to dull and need lots of porcupine and driving games around lots of objects... Parelli just makes it look so easy, cause his timing is so good... If you watch Linda from years ago till now, she really shows what it is like to go from loving horses to being GREAT with horses, if you watch her, it use to take her LONGER to get the same results that Pat could, now, her timing is Perfect and she gets results in about the same time as Pat... She still loves horses, she is simply now a great horsewomen... I think what I enjoy is watching her in and English saddle and riding English but doing all the same things as Pat who Rides western... When I met My Husband it was a standard joke, He is a Western and I am more English... The interesting part is, I really don't mean to be a Guru, I do watch and read other people, but, I simply enjoy the Parelli's so much, that I am gravitated to them, more then others... I don't do clinics and I have not bothered to do all the Tasks, I do what I do, when I need to do it... If I am having trouble with something, I study the DVD's or ask for advice, then I practice it... Now, I have to admit, I love watching Judy's UTubes with her Clicker training, that is really interesting to me, however, I have not done it, I have not figured out how to do it correctly... but it does fascinate me... -- Debbie in MN ~ Please check out how we can all help raise money for Huginn's Hospital Fund ~ http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgtrq74d_386xtqp ~~~If we all do a little, we will have a lot
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > how so many people who do not even know each other use the lead > rope > > in such an abrasive manner because of the seven games? What in > the > > DVDs is missing, where is the translation lost? > > > Probably in the application. > > I think people don't work slow enough, soft enough. > > I think people read something and think they have to go out and > make the > horse learn it (Darn, I'm going to make this horse learn how to > back up if > it's the last thing I do!), instead of going slowly learning > themselves > first, in how to apply it nicely. > > We're not on a time clock in horse relationship training; it's the > journey > :-) > > > Judy I totally agree with you on that Judy. I start off using the smallest bit of pressure, whatever it is, wheather we are taslking about backing up, crossing over, cues with my seat...everything I do on the ground I want it to be able to be transferred to the saddle. The lightest first , then I ask a little 'louder' the next time.I do not rush, I am building a relationship with my horse. There is no need to rush, as I want my horses to trust me, communicate with me, and want to be with me, want to go out on the trail, want to do whatever, even if its repairing the fence line and they are keeping me company. I have learned that concept from Eloise, who has taught clinics in Iceland, Germany, and mabye Great Britain, I am not sure of that one. Anyway, lightest first, then proceed from theremy horses are happiest this wayI learned how to use a round pen from going to John Lyon Clinics, but it was Eloises unique horse body launguage in the round pen that I really got it. The horses got it before meanyway, she has an Icelandic background because of working with Icelandic trainers, and traveling to Iceland and importing and training and actually being a horse professional for yearsI feel fortunate that I have met her at the time of her life where she has put her lifelong knowlege of horses together in such a way that what she does is always done in mind of what the horse needsusing body language really works...its what I like to use, and every horse that I come in contact with understands it. We have a farrier buisness and I come into contact with 100's of horse each month, handling, haltering, leading, doing first trim jobs, shoeing, and whatever needs to be done. If I waved a lead rope to get a horse to back up, the High end Dressage Andulusions would jump out of its skin...if I use body language they get it immediatley...no glitz, no magic, no training and training and training, just back to what the horse understands. After all, we want to communicate with them, right? Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
> the few people here who actually use it.the Icelandics based > trainer here, thinks that the students that she has seen study his > videos are treating their horses terribly, and I tend to agree. Ljufur was the first Icelandic Horse in the world to officially go thru PNH, and that was ten years ago. If you've seen any of my videos, you don't see me throwing a rope in my horse's face. It's all very calm and quiet. Maybe we can do some PNH when I come over. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
On 9/3/07, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Judy > > >>>I think people don't work slow enough, soft enough. > > I think that is true and also the person's timing, body position, posture > (hollow back or slouchy) makes any signal feel quite different just like > with riding. > > Robyn Exactly, slow enough soft enough, as I just reminded myself with Lacy's correction... I watched Jewel with Duke.. both horses were herd bosses until they met.. then one had to be boss, it is just how it is, well, Jewel is herd boss.. but it took Jewel a long time to get that thought through to Duke... months in fact and they live together, actually for a while, I had to keep them in separate herds cause Duke was getting hurt, not smarter... This way, Duke was still boss of Molly, but could learn from Jewel next to him, cause there were times that Jewel still let him know he was BOSS... Now, why did it take so long for Duke to finally LEARN that Jewel was boss and that he had to respect him??? For one thing, I don't think that Duke had learned horse language, or the same language that Jewel Speaks anyway... he had created his own language, as he was only with the same horse, one other horse for 13 years... Jewel has been with MANY horses over the years, we seemed to collect and give away horses... or sell them if I got lucky for close to the same amount of money that we bought them... LONG STORY.. Finally now they are buddies, I put just the TWO of them together while Charm was recuperating from her stifle injury... but it took a very long time, 2+ years to get to this stage of the game... Some horses just need more time learning to communicate, maybe it is the same with people and horses??? Debbie in MN ~ Please check out how we can all help raise money for Huginn's Hospital Fund ~ http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgtrq74d_386xtqp ~~~If we all do a little, we will have a lot
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
On 9/3/07, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OK Debbie, this is sounding better and better. Nancy, what is sounding better and better? >If he will play with me to > the point it makes tears flow (that would be mine, not his) does that mean I > understand the horse better than the prior owner? I read your post and you said it has taken you 2 years to get him to load in trailers, at least that is what I thought you meant, correct me if I am wrong... that is when I said that the horse has savvy... I will add that he might be smart or afraid... or both!!! In that situation and that environment >There were some things > she couldn't demonstrate because she said he wasn't "good" at them. Some things, that means nothing to me... "good" at them, also is to vague for me, sorry, I am blond... > He's a first horse for me that can trot along with me at liberty and > "float" around the riding ring in some weird and magical dance. What a > trip! > Also, a trip that we don't always take. Sometimes he's just too distracted. > > Nancy Well Nancy, he is your partner... sounds like he does things his way to me, when he is in the mood, which seems to work for you, which is great... However, Can you get your thoughts to his feet??? In a very LIGHT way, that maybe no one else can even see you do it... That is my goal, PNH helps me to do that... However, I realized the other day with my puppy, that I am NOT LIGHT ENOUGH... I will admit this, cause it happened, I know I am not as light as I could be... I have to work on that, I know this is my big issue with horses, and now with dogs, LOL, fortunately I can laugh cause no one got hurt, ok here goes my huge accident with my puppy, but it was a huge learning lesson for me... now I am aware, Lacy is 8 lbs max... she''s about 14 weeks old now... a Schnoodle, I have talked about her before, well, she was attacking my friends 4 month old Scottie mix puppy, with a loud snarl and attack, the Scottie mix is BIGGER then Lacy, but much more submissive, well, I had Lacy on a leash, and when she went to grab Dolly the Scottie mix, I corrected her quickly, but, man, when I did, she went off the ground, cause I lifted her UP.. well, I did not mean to lift her up, I was only telling her no... shoot, she was 3 feet off the ground, "hanging and swinging" is what someone said the next day when we were talking and laughing about it, but it really was a huge "LESSON" for me.. I need to be LIGHTER yet... my Timing was right, she was so much better after that, not one growl out of her over the next 2 days... But, I WAS way to HEAVY... How does this relate to horses and PNH, I watch how soft Pat and Linda are with horses, and I try to get that light too... I love the creativity that they have brought to horses, I love the games, I love the challenges... I love to test my Savvy and see if I can get my horse to Dance with me in things that I do with them... I love that, I love it when it is my idea and I get them to join me in that idea, what ever it is... Just the other day, Jewel, who has hated water all of his life, and I came to a low dip in the land, with Water flowing through it... egads, he was NOT Happy, he is not happy with the saddle pad I had on him either, nor the crupper I was trying on him for the first time, so rather then get in a state with him, I hopped off and sent him across, he knew exactly what I wanted and jumped over it, ha... I sent him back and forth, each time he came to me, and asked me if he did it right, that Asking for more direction, checking in with me is so special, did he do it at a walk? NO, did I push it? NO, did he calm down and take it with a very mellow jump? Yes he did and since the dang mosquitoes were starting to eat us up alive, I said that was good enough... Supper is ready, so ask away, I hope I answered this question... PS. Nancy, I am having a really hard time figuring out who you are talking to or which comment you are referring too, I just read the thread and I am still confused, so I hope I answered your questions correctly, you might want to leave a little of the message attached or refer to it when agreeing with a thought or comment, I forget to do this too sometimes... Debbie in MN ~ Please check out how we can all help raise money for Huginn's Hospital Fund ~ http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgtrq74d_386xtqp ~~~If we all do a little, we will have a lot
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
On 9/3/07, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > A Parelli instructor?!!! With a horse that couldn't even load?! > > > The method isn't the problem; it could be the person, or it could be that > the particular horse needs a different method for that situation. No, I'm not slamming the method by any means. I'm very surprised that something as elementary as trailer loading has been lost on someone certified to teach an NH method. There are things I like about Parelli, other things I disagree strongly with. I'm not a groupie, that's for sure. Robyn S
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli
Hi Judy >>>I think people don't work slow enough, soft enough. I think that is true and also the person's timing, body position, posture (hollow back or slouchy) makes any signal feel quite different just like with riding. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli
Hi Debbie, >>>Anyone can have a horse who will not load in a strange trailer and in a strange location too.. For sure, context is everything. And when you are feeling pressure to do something that just makes it worse Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli
I think this is the biggest problem w/ Parelli's method--that so few people have the cash to actually work WITH Pat Parelli. I've taken lessons with several Parelli trainers that are VERY different in their interpretations of the method. I think it can get so watered down that students are taught the wrong thing. Let's face it--there's only so much that you can learn from books and videos--there is no one there to correct you if you are doing it wrong/too hard/too much/too fast. I have met a few Parelli trainers - one I like a lot, one who makes my skin scrawl and one that I thought just ok, but nothing special. I really like to go to the weekend tour stops though. I love to watch Pat work with a horse. It helped me that I have a core of local friends who got into NH about 1991, with another trainer. He does his own thing, not exactly Lyons, not exactly Parelli, but he's gentle and fair, and his methods work. I took 6-8 weekend clinics with him over a period of maybe 4 years, but my friends and I would get together and hash out things in between times. Two friends "apprenticed" with him for a couple of weeks, meaning they worked for free in exchange for some lessons. And, we've been blessed to have Shirley in this area to be a sounding board for us. So, we piddled around with the Natural Horsemanship, sort of "getting it", sometimes not, and we'd buy whatever other NH books we could find, by other authors. We never dropped a lot of money into any clinician's flavor of NH. I was mostly on my own, but I did have a support system.Anyway, a couple of years after that NH trainer moved away, Gracie developed her mysterious back problem and the vets at Virginia Tech suggested we restart her with Parelli. I was skeptical, since she'd been started gently anyway, and Parelli didn't seem that different from what we'd done. But, as it turned out, one of my neighbors had just bought the Seven Games video, and the original Level 1. I borrowed her Seven Games video, and thought immediately - I know this...but by golly, I've never seen it so organized! I could suddenly REMEMBER stuff that would never stick in my brain before. You know how frustrating it can be when a horse does something "wrong", and the "right" reaction just escapes you...? Well, Parelli put names on stuff, so I could REMEMBER! Oh happy day! I ended up buying the Level 1 kit myself, but the original one was only about $125 I think. I went all the way through Level 1 without going to anything more than one of Pat and Linda's weekend tours, which I think are about $25 per person, per weekend. Considering how many horses I've used Level 1 on, it wasn't expensive at all for me. (I did end up going to an Advanced Level 1 clinic, and wasn't thrilled with it. But, I don't feel the need to be certified or anything, so I don't care.) When I think about it now, I'm not sure so many people would recognize what I do with my young horses as "Parelli" because it's become my own way, influenced by Parelli, as well as the original NH I studied with, but also tempered with classically educated Shirley's style - she's my friend who graduated from VA. Intermont with a degree in horsemanship. Anyway, that was just my particular path. I think a lot of people can use parts of the Parelli program in many creative ways, without breaking the bank...and without "joining the cult." And it doesn't have to be ALL Parelli...or ALL Anderson, or ALL LYONS...and I'm sure there are some lesser known trainers of the genre that could be better than any of these. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/985 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 4:32 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
> how so many people who do not even know each other use the lead rope > in such an abrasive manner because of the seven games? What in the > DVDs is missing, where is the translation lost? Probably in the application. I think people don't work slow enough, soft enough. I think people read something and think they have to go out and make the horse learn it (Darn, I'm going to make this horse learn how to back up if it's the last thing I do!), instead of going slowly learning themselves first, in how to apply it nicely. We're not on a time clock in horse relationship training; it's the journey :-) Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
Anyone can have a horse who will not load in a strange trailer and in a strange location too.. -- Debbie in MN ~ Please check out how we can all help raise money for Huginn's Hospital Fund ~ http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgtrq74d_386xtqp ~~~If we all do a little, we will have a lot
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
Have to admit that was my thought exactly. And that was only part of it. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
OK Debbie, this is sounding better and better. If he will play with me to the point it makes tears flow (that would be mine, not his) does that mean I understand the horse better than the prior owner? There were some things she couldn't demonstrate because she said he wasn't "good" at them. He's a first horse for me that can trot along with me at liberty and "float" around the riding ring in some weird and magical dance. What a trip! Also, a trip that we don't always take. Sometimes he's just too distracted. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
> A Parelli instructor?!!! With a horse that couldn't even load?! The method isn't the problem; it could be the person, or it could be that the particular horse needs a different method for that situation. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
I think what is missing is that people do not get the horse as soft as possible, they go to the highest phase first, instead of getting the focus to be on being light first, then getting firm ONLY if they have to... Timing... -- Debbie in MN ~ Please check out how we can all help raise money for Huginn's Hospital Fund ~ http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgtrq74d_386xtqp ~~~If we all do a little, we will have a lot
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
Nancy, The 7 games is not for the horse.. it is really for the person, sounds like the horse has a lot of Savvy to me.. Debbie in MN ~ Please check out how we can all help raise money for Huginn's Hospital Fund ~ http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgtrq74d_386xtqp ~~~If we all do a little, we will have a lot
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
> The glitz and stuff... ignore that. Don't let that stand in the > way of > using something that works well. > > Have you tried the Seven Games? http://iceryder.net/7games.html > > If you learn how to do it well, you may be able to help the people > over there who may be mis-using it. I have a gelding right now that probably would enjoy that kind of workhe is curious about everything and wants to do anything that would mean he gets attention. I would be willing to start the first game with him once I get him back from Eloisesto see how it goes. But I guess I am wondering how so many people who do not even know each other use the lead rope in such an abrasive manner because of the seven games? What in the DVDs is missing, where is the translation lost? Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
On 9/3/07, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We were laughing about that very thing while out doing a conditioning ride > Saturday. I bought Hunter from a woman who was a Parelli instructor A Parelli instructor?!!! With a horse that couldn't even load?! Good Lord. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
We were laughing about that very thing while out doing a conditioning ride Saturday. I bought Hunter from a woman who was a Parelli instructor in a city about two hours from here. She taught a weekly class there. I like a lot of things that come from PNH, but Hunter was a very poor representative of natural horsemanship. The seller agreed to deliver him to a spot mid-way between her place and ours. She had a really rough time getting him in my trailer - a trailer that I had never had a horse refuse to go into, very open and spacious. She kept looking at me as if to ask, "Changed your mind yet?" I was thinking "If he doesn't go in this time, she can keep the deposit. I am so out of here." He loaded and I took him home, but for the entire first week I was thinking I had made a very large mistake. I've had him a little over two years now. He does know the seven games and he has loaded like a champ the last four times I hauled him, but that is after two plus years. I have to assume he flunked her class. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
I have had horses all of my life, and learned things mostly on my own, I saw Ray Hunt as a kid, has a few lessons from Jack Brainard, Showed Arabs, WON... did it all most all myself, Started with a been there done that half Arab Gelding, then started showing Arabs, then birthing, raising and training my parents horses... I watched a lot of IDIOT Arab Trainers... Tried not to DO any of that JUNK myself... what I did, is make sure my horses learned what they needed to know before my dad sent them to the trainers so it was EASY for the horses... When I saw Pat teaching people I was relieved, cause I really felt like he was teaching people to do it the best way possible for the horse... I felt like I was home... The 7 games is just the language for us humans, learning the timing, learning to get the message to the horse, well, that takes savvy, if you already have it, you can still learn form Pat and Linda, the secret is to be as light as possible, and have still be able to have it all... For me with my guy, it is a combination of so many things... but one of the pieces of the puzzle for me has been to watch Pat and Linda... I go to the clinic and I watch, where his hands are, where is body is, the look on his face, the timing he has to do what he does.. wow, it really is very exciting for me to watch he is a Master I have watched Linda become a horsewomen too... she has great timing now, great hands, great seat, and her ability to explain things is invaluable, the two of them are so perfect for each other... one without the other is just simply not complete... Not every person who watches Pat and Linda can be Pat or Linda, everyone has to develop their own language and savvy, but, I do believe, if you can practice, practice and practice, that you will be able to get good results using PNH with any horse... the new Behavior DVD's are wonderful... cause, they are addressing the various horse personalities and what to do with each type of horse... something that I am not sure if many others have addressed... Smart move on their part, and very, very important... I have been coaching a friend, which simply helps me to be better... cause then I go home and watch the DVD's so I can coach her to the next level, she has watched the DVD's, but for her it helps to have someone help her.. her horse will not go into the trailer willingly, we have not made it about the trailer, we have been getting his trust, and respect near the trailer... I think I could get him in the trailer for her, but that is not what PNH is all about... she has to have the leadership and respect for this horse... she loves him, he loves her, but dang, he does not really see her as the leader... Every time I watch the DVD's, I see and learn something I missed or forgot... but that is me, I eat this stuff up... Debbie in MN ~ Please check out how we can all help raise money for Huginn's Hospital Fund ~ http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgtrq74d_386xtqp ~~~If we all do a little, we will have a lot
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
> So, look at the method, and not at the people who are using it. I think this is the biggest problem w/ Parelli's method--that so few people have the cash to actually work WITH Pat Parelli. I've taken lessons with several Parelli trainers that are VERY different in their interpretations of the method. I think it can get so watered down that students are taught the wrong thing. Let's face it--there's only so much that you can learn from books and videos--there is no one there to correct you if you are doing it wrong/too hard/too much/too fast. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli
> Does anyone else have that experience with Parelli trained horses, or > is it just the people here on the island that seems to abuse that > part of his teachings? I think the Parelli Natural Horsemanship is good, and doubly good when paired up with clicker training, as there is no need, as people have found, to go to swinging ropes in the horses' faces. So, look at the method, and not at the people who are using it. It's very good and very kind to Icelandic Horses who are willing, and into learning. It might not be so good for the nervous Icelandics unless really done slowly, with lots of use of click and reward for small tries. It helps the owners become horsemen. There's a whole *understanding* thing that goes on. The "try" is very important. The glitz and stuff... ignore that. Don't let that stand in the way of using something that works well. Have you tried the Seven Games? http://iceryder.net/7games.html If you learn how to do it well, you may be able to help the people over there who may be mis-using it. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli UK
Newsletter: http://enews.parelli.com/ Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli Podcasts
How horses learn: http://podcast.parelli.com/Parelli%20Natural%20Horsemanship/Podcast/1DE6AD25-2EFC-4E5D-8284-D87CFAD33442.html Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli and Storm series
I guess Parelli working with STorm isnt a video set you can buy yet, and I see by this program guide i got from the website that he is almost done with storm. But on the 25th we start a new horse "Pedro" so I will try and VCR this series and maybe we can swap them around. Did anyone happen to tape the "Storm" series? I did, but on my Divo digitally and i dont know how to tape that or share it. I will try. janice Program Details For more information about RFD-TV, please visit www.rfdtv.com. June 6, 2007 Episode 404 "Storm" Day 1, Part 4: Pat Parelli plays "Put your nose on something" with Storm to build communication. June 13, 2007 Episode 405 "Storm" Day 1, Part 5: Pat Parelli uses approach and retreat to build trust with Storm. June 20, 2007 Episode 406 "Storm" Day 1, Part 6: Pat Parelli uses patience and persistence to help Storm with thresholds June 27, 2007 Episode 407 "Storm" Day 1, Part 7 : Pat Parelli helps Storm achieve a major threshold break through. July 4, 2007 Episode 408 "Storm" Day 1, Part 8: Michelle and Storm demonstrate a whole new level of understanding and trust. July 11, 2007 Episode 409 Pat and Storm Day 2: Pat saddles in preparation for riding. July 18, 2007 Episode 410 Pat and Storm Day 2: Pat and Storm take a ride. July 25, 2007 Episode 411 Meet Pedro, the Friesian who's owner says he's lazy, pushy, won't go, and tries to buck when ridden. August 1, 2007 Episode 412 Pat meets Pedro for the first time, turns him loose in the arena and the games begin. August 8, 2007 Episode 413 Pat plays catching games with Pedro and then teaches him leadership games on a 45-foot Line. August 15, 2007 Episode 414 Pat halters Pedro and teaches him to respect the human's space and communication. August 22, 2007 Episode 415 Pat introduces the "Drive Line" and how to use it to direct the horse's movement. August 29, 2007 Episode 416 Pat prepares Pedro for trailer loading using obstacles and the Seven Games. September 5, 2007 Episode 417 Pat introduces Pedro to a more natural and creative way to load into a trailer. -- yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] Parelli Podcasts
Here are some podcasts from Parelli: http://podcast.parelli.com/Parelli%20Natural%20Horsemanship/Podcast/Podcast.html Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli on TV in UK
Watch Parelli in the UK: http://horseandcountry.opusstream.net/Equestrian/83_138 Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli Clinic in Va
>From Lacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello everyone. I have 2 clinics scheduled in the marshall/middleburg area in VA wiht Don and Rachel Jessop. Don taught the liberty and horse behavior course at the ISC and rachel the fluidity II- finesse course. we have two 2 day clinics scheduled: a level 1/2 for people who have passed level one or who are almost ready to assess and a level 2/3 for those who have passed level two or are almost ready to assess.
[IceHorses] Parelli Podcasts
Several new podcasts here: http://podcast.parelli.com/Parelli%20Natural%20Horsemanship/Podcast/Podcast.html or: http://tinyurl.com/rmomo Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli Tapes
>From Pam: In case anyone is looking for the old VHS levels...they are on Craigslist. NOT my ad, nor am I connected to it in any way. Just passing along info. http://nashville.craigslist.org/grd/338004691.html Pam Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] parelli on tv
wow, be sure and catch parelli on RFDTV this week! I had been getting bored with his shows because they were all his same old stuff in an arena at a clinic, but now they have a new series I guess, where people sent them videos of problem horses and Linda selected ones they would work with and they went and worked with the horse! It is so awesome I cant wait til the next episode! They showed the video of the horse the owners sent and the horse was acting bad in a very interesting way, rearing, running away from the people, but not frightened, no ears back or anything! So Parelli pointed out the horse had no fear, was not acting bad, was just so totally confused and trying so hard to do what the people wanted but they were just confusing him more and more. The horse was very hard to catch by the owners. wouldnt load in a trailer all kinds of really bad problems. So when parelli gets him in an arena it was only like ten seconds before the horse was relaxed, calm, happy and following him around like a dog! And all the problem was that the owner(s) were very inexperienced with horses and thought they were doing the right thing. and the horse was not in need of "dominance" he was in need of assurance, and was actually just so wanting to please! and they would point out things like how he would willingly do what the owner asked with some scarey things but not others and how this is a sign that a horse is not spooky but confused as to what you are wanting. I had to admit I saw some of my Stonewall in that behavior! and they said the horse's behavior showed signs of a great deal of intelligence and willingness to please, not stubbornness or willfulness. and when they would point it out it was easy to see what they meant! It is just an awesome series! I cant wait. They apparently have several horses they are going to be doing this with all over... Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] Parelli Videos
I added a few more PNH videos to the Parelli Video page. The new ones show teens riding bareback and bridleless (I think the new ones are the first one and the last one). http://iceryder.net/parellivideos.html I hope more of our young Icelandic Horse riders take up natural horsemanship! Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
On 3/23/07, Cherie Mascis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > A sweet but excitable horse is the last type of horse to send to someone > who'll be rough. He needs calm leadership and someone he can trust while > working through his excitment issues. > > Cherie > Today I went to a place with many horses and petted and handled many of them. I came home and all my horses were intensely curious about the smells on me, bending to smell me all over, my hands, my arms, my legs. Stonewall comes up and smells very intently all the places on me he could smell another horse, then he put his nose in my hair and breathed dep over and over, and no one can tell me its anthropomorphism, I am NOT imprinting my human emotion on him when I say this, I KNOW he was loving on me, saying "I smell other horses on you, but I smell you here and its the best smell" because when he got to the top of my head and planted his nose there he stayed there a long time, just breathing me in :) None of my other horses do that! janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
M --- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I went to a John Lyons clinic one time, given by two certified Lyons trainers. > Also the rope slinging is too much for me. There is no sense > whatsoever in slinging a rope at a horse's rear while he races > around a roundpen in a complete state of panic. All that is is the old cowboy way of training thru fear and intimidation in my opinion. But Lyons has so much good info in his magazine etc. He knows so much. The rope slinging you mention about John Lyons...its funny because that is the way I feel about Parrelli, I just can not stand the games things and all the lead rope motion in the horses face. Every horse that I have met where the owner has done the Parrelli method, the horses have some big issues that come from it...pulling back when tied up...they have learned through the methods that pressure on the lead rope means back up, and fast, so when tied if they create pressure themselves they go back...I have seen horses trained by his methods to freak out and take out posts in cementand I have a long list of horses that I have seen trained by his DVDs...now I know it might be the people mis interpeting this, however, it seems rampant with the trainers that use those methods I never want my horse to have any fear of the lead ropeever! Why? You have to use a lead rope to halter and lead, to move them aroundto tie them up...I use my body launguage...its pretty simple, and the horses already understand it, as that is how they communicate with each other. And in all games there is a winner and a loser, I never want my horse to feel defeated...I want to inspire them to do their best in whatever it is, is their gift. My 2 cents about the god of Marketing (Parrelli) (he got a ton of people to pay big bucks for a rope halter and lead rope, pretty good marketing) Storme Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
> Too many people have told me they would love to get ahold >of him and > train him for me, that he needs a firm hand. Which >translates to they > would love to smack him i guess, I dont >know. I am worried about him! > Janice A sweet but excitable horse is the last type of horse to send to someone who'll be rough. He needs calm leadership and someone he can trust while working through his excitment issues. Cherie
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
well, let us just say I am of the mindset that if you see a bumpersticker that says "honk if you love jesus" fasten your seatbelt cause you are about to be cut off in traffic. which is sad really! anyway. I dont want to start a big thread on religeon. Just i think I wouldnt send, say, Nasi off for john Lyons training. For instance. he has never had a whip popped at him in his entire life, never a lunge whip or crop raised at him in anger, only smacked when he was being too playful and smart alecky. And anytime I really scolded him he was immediately so contrite. I honestly believe it would be a shock and cause some sort of mistrust/fear issues with him if someone started suddenly treating him rough and "dominant". These young horses raised in loving NH homes, very doted on, beloved, pampered, allowed to be beautiful spirited babies and young adults. How horrible to suddenly out of the blue at age 5 send them to a strict severe place. At the very least I think it would give them post traumatic stress disorder. I think first they would fight it with anger, etc., but eventually become very depressed and shut down. It is the saddest thing I can think of, tho I do not always know a right answer. My Stonewall needs something, i dont know what. He has a huge training gap that must be resolved. I sent him to a very good trainer after I broke him myself gently. She taught him a good whoa, to ground tie while I open gates etc, to walk on a lead very perfectly mannerly, to do trail obstacles. But he gets so excited I dont know how to calm him, and he spooks at something on the trail that he would pay no attention to at home. So I have to figure out this mystery myself. Too many people have told me they would love to get ahold of him and train him for me, that he needs a firm hand. Which translates to they would love to smack him i guess, I dont know. I am worried about him! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
>From: Raven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Did you ask why the instructors are choosing not to re-license? The clinic host said "The way I see it, if NONE of the Canadian instructors, not to mention REAMS of the US and other international instructors, wanted to sign this 'contract', they must have had good reason." That's all I know. V _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-ca
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
>> went to a John Lyons clinic one time, given by two certified Lyons trainers. After the first half hour it was like a tent evangelist meeting Thank goodness..my local JL trainer is not that way! But..maybe that is why they no longer want to be JL licensed trainers? HAHA!! IMHOJohn Lyons is not a godly man. He had an affair while married to his first wife. I have no problem with folks getting a divorce, but...get one first, and then go out with others. What is kinda creepy for me, is that John married the woman (younger than 1st wife!) he was having an affair with and his son...married his second wife's daughter!! How creepy is that?? So...the kids are married to each other and also step brother & sister? And they called themselves christens. HA! BTW...I am not a christen. I follow more pagan beliefs (and no I don't dance under the stars in the nude). HA! Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn, the American Ice Pony Dixie Chic, the Barn Goddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
> Yesterday I found out that the instructor hasn't renewed with Parelli > (apparently a lot of instructors aren't signing the new contracts--I don't > know the details) and his 'Parelli' title is over May 31st. I know that > doesn't mean he loses all his knowledge with the title but that really > puts > a damper on my enthusiasm. Don't worry about it. It's sort of like when kids grow up and they leave the nest. Years ago when Lee Smith left PNH, people thought the program was going to die out and it only got bigger and better. She ends up spreading her knowledge in a different way, and it creates more knowledgeable people in horses. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
>> I've emailed the clinic rep to ask if the instructor will still be allowed to teach 'Parelli' if he isn't licensed Last weekend, I attended a John Lyons based clinic. The instructors "were" training under the JL methods, but...no longer are certifided by JL. This was their choice. They decided not to re-certify cuz...they wanted to incorporate their own ideas into the training. So..when they want to train a JL "thing" they say "Now..we will do the "unmentionable" etc..." Cuz...they can no longer called it he JL etc...etc. but they still do teach it. Does that make sense? ~:]They knowledge is still there and they do share it. If you are planning on getting your own Pat Parelli level test, you may not want to spend $$ on this trainer. But...if you are just trying to learn and do not care about getting your level tests, I'll go for the clinic. Heck...you're gonna learn either way. <:} Did you ask why the instructors are choosing not to re-license? Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn, the American Ice Pony Dixie Chic, the Barn Goddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
>From: "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >It amazes me sometimes that >about anyone who calls himself a clinician can find a loyal following - >somewhere, with some people. Yeah, that's scary. I tend to go on my 'gut feeling' about something. Not so sure that's always a good thing though. V _ Take A Break From The Cold And Have Some Fun Indoors http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!142
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
>From: "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I'm pretty sure not...literally. But good horsemanship is good >horsemanship. If the guy is good, he's still good. Everything I've heard is that he's good. I've also been reading that the new contract Parelli's are putting out is losing them instructors in Canada and in the US. I don't know the details. So, I'm thinking the instructor is leaving Parelli because of business details not for anything else. My concern about all of this is only that I want to do some hands-on Level 1 Parelli with an instructor because that is what I'm studying right now--so, my question to the organizers of the clinic was inquiring if the clinic program will be Level 1 practice or something else now. V _ Take A Break From The Cold And Have Some Fun Indoors http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!142
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
I went to a John Lyons clinic one time, given by two certified Lyons trainers. After the first half hour it was like a tent evangelist meeting. I thought well, they are just opening with a little sermon. By lunch I fled the grounds because I was afraid they were gonna start speaking in tongues and letting loose the serpent handling. Why do people do that? If I want a sermon I will go to church. If I want a horse clinic I won't go to a prayer meeting. Just my .02. My gripe. Also the rope slinging is too much for me. There is no sense whatsoever in slinging a rope at a horse's rear while he races around a roundpen in a complete state of panic. All that is is the old cowboy way of training thru fear and intimidation in my opinion. But Lyons has so much good info in his magazine etc. He knows so much. But I just can't help but be perplexed that his horsemanship is based so strongly on christianity yet he treats horses like he is a slavemaster. I dont GET that. Spiritual practice is only for us to use on humans and not animals Spiritual principles are only for humans? I think if Jesuis was alive he would be nice to the downtrodden, which includes the beasts of the field... If anyone wants a second sermon from me you can deposit some money in my paypal account, this is my only free sermon of the day. Sorry, but I cant be casting all my pearls before swine. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
It was about time the organization had a major upheaval:) it was getting so huge it was only a matter of time! Its Business 101. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
>>> That's good thinking. I'm too trusting, I think. I've heard such rave reviews about this particular instructor from the local clinic rep, plus from other people on the various Parelli lists I belong to. I've heard rave reviews on several trainers that I wouldn't subject my horses to. Some are Icelanders. One is a Parelli clinician. One is a John Lyons certified instructor. And there are some others too, that I've heard great things about, that I don't like at all. It amazes me sometimes that about anyone who calls himself a clinician can find a loyal following - somewhere, with some people. Karen Thomas, NC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/730 - Release Date: 3/22/2007 7:44 AM "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] The video every Icelandic Horse owner should have: http://IceHorses.net/video.html [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses [] IceHorses ToolBar http://iceryder.ourtoolbar.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
>>>Yesterday I found out that the instructor hasn't renewed with Parelli (apparently a lot of instructors aren't signing the new contracts--I don't know the details) and his 'Parelli' title is over May 31st. I know that doesn't mean he loses all his knowledge with the title but that really puts a damper on my enthusiasm. For what it's worth, there are always upheavals in associations of horsemen...sometimes it seems more prevalent than in other disciplines or sports, but I'm not so sure it really is. In all lines of work, people are continually changing jobs, moving on to greener pastures - and sometimes big businesses fail. It happens on all levels, even very local levels. It's always hard to know the full story - is it possible that the instructor is just feeling a little arrogant, and feels he doesn't need the Parelli name any more? Or, on the other hand, are the Parelli's getting more difficult to deal with? If they are, is it justified - I'm sure it's hard to guarantee the quality of their instructors? In other words, to what extent are human egos at play here? To be honest, I don't even want to get into that level of the disagreements, whether Parelli or some of the little local spats I hear about. Those are human business issues - like most of us I'm sure, I have to deal with that sort of thing in other parts of my life, and I like to keep "politics" away from my horses. Well, except for any "politics" that might be directly related to the welfare of the animals. >>>I've emailed the clinic rep to ask if the instructor will still be allowed to teach 'Parelli' if he isn't licensed. I'm pretty sure not...literally. But good horsemanship is good horsemanship. If the guy is good, he's still good. If he's not - well, maybe he'll be able to use some of his new freedom to learn more perspective, or to pull from good experiences he had before he joined the Parellis. And remember, a lot of folks use parts of the Parelli program, learned through independent study. No matter what happens with any given instructor, there's no reason why you can't continue to use the parts you can learn. And, the Parelli's most certainly aren't the only name in Natural Horsemanship. They have a very well-organized program, but the downside of a well-organized program is while it may be effective for many horses, and many owners. Karen Thomas, NC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/730 - Release Date: 3/22/2007 7:44 AM "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] The video every Icelandic Horse owner should have: http://IceHorses.net/video.html [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses [] IceHorses ToolBar http://iceryder.ourtoolbar.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
>From: "Wanda Lauscher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Though I probably wouldn't take my horse, I'd >prefer to audit. But I'm like that, if I haven't seen exactly what my >horse will experience...I won't subject him to it. > That's good thinking. I'm too trusting, I think. I've heard such rave reviews about this particular instructor from the local clinic rep, plus from other people on the various Parelli lists I belong to. But, I think you're right. V _ Have Some Fresh Air Fun This March Break http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!147
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
> I've emailed the clinic rep to ask if the instructor will still be allowed > to teach 'Parelli' if he isn't licensed. > V No matter whose flag he's flying, I would expect that something could be learned from him. Though I probably wouldn't take my horse, I'd prefer to audit. But I'm like that, if I haven't seen exactly what my horse will experience...I won't subject him to it. Last year, There was an incident that I heard about, from someone that attended a clinic of a respected trainer, and it took her three weeks to undo the damage that was done. She was feeling very guilty that she hadn't stopped it at the time, but she kept telling herself that the guy was supposed to know what he was doing. He didn't. Wanda
[IceHorses] Parelli upheavals
As you all know, I'm new to the Parelli method, and I was really excited to learn about the Parelli clinic coming to my city in the fall. Yesterday I found out that the instructor hasn't renewed with Parelli (apparently a lot of instructors aren't signing the new contracts--I don't know the details) and his 'Parelli' title is over May 31st. I know that doesn't mean he loses all his knowledge with the title but that really puts a damper on my enthusiasm. I've emailed the clinic rep to ask if the instructor will still be allowed to teach 'Parelli' if he isn't licensed. V _ Have Some Fun Out Of The Sun This March Break http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!142
Re: [IceHorses] Parelli on TV online
> click onto the first link and it should open in Windows Media Player. > >What a well spoken young woman - a great ambassador for the program and of course, Carol always does well. -- Laree
[IceHorses] Parelli on TV online
Watch Parelli online at: http://www.wreg.com/Global/SearchResults.asp?vendor=wss&qu=parelli click onto the first link and it should open in Windows Media Player. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Parelli Savvy Tip #8
http://podcast.parelli.com/Parelli%20Natural%20Horsemanship/Podcast/D626786F-A00D-4360-826B-479B84A9A289.html Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
