RE: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
Even now, if I feel that I am letting weight fall into my stirrups, I correct my balance. Hunter is an edgy, reactive little guy (I love him. I really do love this horse) and it took me a while to figure out that he was made anxious when my leg rested on his side. So now, not only do I not weight my stirrup, I have to let may leg fall in a really relaxed fashion so that I'm not using it to balance on his body.. The whole thing has really helped me to regain my balance in motion. I can't remember what I was doing, maybe just dropping my stirrups for a rest, and some event happened out on trail not long ago. He sort of surged forward and then took a few trot steps. I was still right in the middle when we finished. Still stirrup-less. That's a great example, Nancy, and exactly what I was talking about. Gosh, I rode for 15 years before my injury - I was younger, fitter, and braver those first 15 years too. But, I was never what you'd call a natural rider - I have always been able to learn to do various sports adequately, but I'm a long way from being a natural athlete in any sense, but I'm sure I passed as having decent position, and a decent seat...but I know I didn't. Not REALLY. Bracing my ankles was always one of my biggest riding faults, but FINALLY, it's not the issue for me that it once was. I guess that's why I always bring the topic up - if I could get better with that dad-blasted old habit, at my age, little natural ability, and after a debilitating injury, then I know most people can at least improve - if they choose to make it a priority. I give credit to two things for breaking my stirrup-dependence: lessons and treeless saddles. I spent a LOT of time regaining my balance after my accident. I took physical therapy riding lessons, really working to get over my physical limitations AND my fear issues. And, because of Sina's conformation and comfort, I HAD to move to a treeless saddle. The two factors also made me face up to riding faults that I'd had all these years, but had been able to conveniently ignore when I was younger (and bounced better when I got dumped), and that didn't show up in a rigid saddle. Looking back, I KNOW the treed saddles often allowed me to be ignorantly blissful of my faults, but I'm sure my horses took the brunt of my faults. THEY knew, even if I chose to ignore the faults. I can't stress enough how valuable I think riding bareback - or at least treeless - is for building rider skills. I hope people whose horses aren't suited to treeless saddles will find a safe (and supervised) way to work on their riding balance - even if it's only riding with your feet out of your stirrups in a small, safe area periodically, for short periods - even if you have some one hold your horse on a lunge line while you did it. (Just be safe at first, and use common sense.) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.14/1171 - Release Date: 12/4/2007 7:31 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
Hi All: Dana Johnsen has said many , many times to all of us dealers that it is not a good idea to ride free swing for any length of time because of the decreased ability to spread the weight of the stirrups the rider. Hard use OR endurance leathers is the way the saddle was best designed according to Dana in order to maximize comfort for the horse. For those who choose to ride free swing in the Sensation, Dana has told me more times than I would like to count that you do so at your horse's risk. As more people are using the Sensations for longer periods of time or jumping, Dana has had reports of issues developing under the butterfly using free swing for longer ride times/frequent riding on the same horse. As Karen Thomas mentioned, a lot is dependant on the rider biomechanics. I'm sure it is possible for those of you riding shorter/infrequent times on different horses, with good rider balance to be ok, but those are a lot of variables. Why tempt fate when Dana has done extensive testing on the way it was designed to be used. I'm sure Melissa or Dana would be happy to explain to those want further info on this. Call her direct in Canada on this subject. Kaaren
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
On 12/4/07, Kaaren Jordan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All: a lot is dependant on the rider biomechanics. I'm sure it is possible for those of you riding shorter/infrequent times on different horses, with good rider balance to be ok, but those are a lot of variables. i have a problem in that area! ! When Teev trots fast or canters it scares me because i feel wobbly. The saddle does not slip when we are going, does not even slip when mounting now that I got a good breast strap. But I dont seem to be able to ever feel part of the horse like I do with other treed saddles. I have never brought this up because i felt it would draw criticism of the sensation or other treeless saddles and its not the saddle, its ME. I cant ever feel secure in a dressage saddle either because the stirrups are too free moving. I suspect it has something to do with the way I use my feet in the stirrups when going? but in my orthoflex I just hold on with my legs and feel actually a part of the horse. Teev is very very in tune with ME and whenever I get wobbly he immediately drops back down into a walk. I guess you could say he is taking care of me but more likely us since my sudden lurching could make him go off balance. The other day when trotting fast and about to canter and going up a slight long incline hill I stood in the stirrups and grabbed mane like my CTR friend says to do, swayed a little to the side and he immediately dropped into a walk, sensing I was losing balance. In my orthoflex on Jaspar he can canter up a hill and go around a hairpin and i am part of him, stonewall too. and in my bona allen saddle too. but in the sensation there is enough give and plushness to it that i havent yet gotten the hang of balancing at speed or with sudden turns. altho the fixed stirrups are a huge improvement. Tivar is not spooky so its ok, but Fox needs a wide tree and I would like to ride him in the sensation but i am nervous when i do because he is basically green and when I had my bad fall off stonewall it was in the trail sensation. (he whirled) Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back/treeless saddles-long
i have a problem in that area! ! When Teev trots fast or canters it scares me because i feel wobbly. sensing I was losing balance. In my orthoflex on Jaspar he can canter up a hill and go around a hairpin and i am part of him, stonewall too. i am nervous when i do because he is basically green and when I had my bad fall off stonewall it was in the trail sensation. (he whirled) Janice, I share the same problem, when I got hurt it was my draft and he would counter canter and over extend his back end in canter, both problems as well as drop his head to propell his front end into trot as drafts when being trained in saddle are not very strong in the rear for collection, not that they don't get that way but they are very wobbly when getting started and I was not the best at balance with his gaits and got hurt pretty bad. I do not ride him in a treeless as I don't ride him as much as the 3 iceys who even at trot are very easy to be more of a passenger than a rider, even my green icey is easier than my draft. I have to ride a trot at least 5-10 minutes to get into rhythm with his so I can post, and finally, he has a little wither so I can keep the saddle centered if it is treed I find myself tipping sideways even a little, and I make him lead on trail rides to get him less spooky instead of mindlessly following, seems to decrease his adrenaline reaction to anything we run across on trails if it is just his response rather than all the horses around his field of vision. I don't take him away on large groupings to ride as I can't always keep his attention and he does bolt when afraid, not pleasant. I will eventually take him to these kinds of rides but he is now 7 and this is the first year I can tell he is maturing and learning, so I can get him to hear me when I am on him. Then icelandics are so smooth that I don't have to work as hard when I ride and I like the way I feel them under the treeless, I use the Torsion. My iceys are witherless, I call them sausages with legs, and if they make sudden change in direction I have to grab mane, to recenter or potentially go off, which I have plenty of times when wildlife pops up and we are going too fast for my legs to hold on. I also put too much pressure in my stirrups when I ride and need to do more of what Karen mentioned about riding the faster gaits without stirrups in my ring until I find a better seat, I have been just so relaxed at riding with friends that I don't spend time improving myself, I become a passenger on my horses way more than I should and don't do them justice carrying my big rear around without working on this. None of my friends ride treeless and it is because they say it isn't secure enough for them, won't even try it when I have made the offer. I think they have felt the same insecurity that I have on my draft and they don't want to lose that control or the appearance of it. Jeannette
[IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
Dana Johnsen has said many , many times to all of us dealers that it is not a good idea to ride free swing for any length of time because of the decreased ability to spread the weight of the stirrups the rider. Hard reports of issues developing under the butterfly using free swing for longer ride times/frequent riding on the same horse. I can't figure this out myself, never heard of it before. What is to ride free swing or using free swing Is this something just relating to the Sensation saddle? Thanks Monica Ontario
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 09:28:34AM -0600, Janice McDonald wrote: i have a problem in that area! ! When Teev trots fast or canters it scares me because i feel wobbly. The saddle does not slip when we are going, does not even slip when mounting now that I got a good breast strap. But I dont seem to be able to ever feel part of the horse like I do with other treed saddles. I have never brought this up because i felt it would draw criticism of the sensation or other treeless saddles and its not the saddle, its ME. a couple suggestions, not to do with saddles but exercises i've found that help with this sort of feeling: . try using a neck strap, esp. at the trot where your horse's head is stable, to stabilize your hands. sometimes that's all it takes, is a steady point of reference you can touch or hang on to :) . (this is harder but a *fantastic* exercise) go up in half seat, and starting at slow trot, let your bum move from side to side as if you had a tail to wag with each stride your horse takes. this will put you in a purposeful, controlled wobble just in time with the sway in your horse's stride. then try a faster trot and see if it helps -- sometimes i put myself into half seat for just a few strides to get it at fast trot, and can then return to posting -- i can't sit stjarni's fast trot at all :) . half-seat at canter -- again, let your seat bob (more than wobble, it's the nature of the canter to be more back-and-forth, rocking-horse style) while you rest your hands on the withers or hold a neck strap. try just a few strides at first. i found this really helps! the half-seat exercises especially will tend to set your lower leg properly and securely in the stirrups. it's not standing up in the stirrups -- as your front comes forward, your behind goes backwards, so your upper body's center of gravity remains directly above your heels. (there's a terrific illustration of this in centered riding, and this is i think why what i call half seat is also called two point, though i've heard other derivations for that term too.) i and my students have all tried all of these in the sensation (back when we were using the first one) and they really helped. good luck to you with yours! hope this helps, --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 06:02:02PM -, Monica wrote: What is to ride free swing or using free swing Is this something just relating to the Sensation saddle? yes, there are several ways to attach the stirrups on the sensation. i was previously using free swing because with my short legs and my short students, the sensation dressage flap we had was too long for the other ways to be comfortable, especially in half-seat or over fences. i have since trialed (and just got, though i haven't tried it yet!) a different-model sensation with shorter flaps, which allows me to use a different way of stirrup attachment (i think hard use) that spreads the riders weight through the saddle more. (kaaren please correct if any of the above is inaccurate/inadequate?) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back/treeless saddles-long
. None of my friends ride treeless and it is because they say it isn't secure enough for them, won't even try it when I have made the offer. I think they have felt the same insecurity that I have on my draft and they don't want to lose that control or the appearance of it. Jeannette thanks jeannette, that was very helpful. I am going to try the arena thing. janice -- yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
Janice: Depending on the whithers height length, side to side back contours the Hybrid may or may not be a good bet for your other horses. I'd be happy to give you my opinion if you e-mail me the pix I request on my site under Demo Info. para 1. Dana has told all us dealers to stress safety first that green horses/ riders who need some help in the balance dept. are best served trying the Sensation with an English Hunt Style breast plate in a smaller enclosed area until everyone feels safe. Even better yet to have a ground walker to lead you around in walk/ trot/gait if possible or at least have someone on the property nearby when you try it for stability. So many things can happen so quicky with a green horse, it's better to be safe than sorry. Treeless saddles can be more laterally unstable depending on horse/rider combo..go slowly with some help from friends , we want you safe in one piece. Us older broads (I'm 57yo this next year) dont's take the falls as easily anymore not to mentioned lost income. Kaaren
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
On 12/4/07, Kaaren Jordan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Janice: Depending on the whithers height length, side to side back contours the Hybrid may or may not be a good bet for your other horses. I'd be happy to give you my opinion if you e-mail me the pix I request on my site under Demo Info. para 1. my fox is a big gentle giant built much like an icelandic, very wide and flat back and not much withers. He was not broke to ride til over 8 years old and has a good strong back. I want to keep it that way and not hurt his back like I did with my old soul Jaspar. He does not have prominent spine/withers. He seems fine with anything i put on him and when he spooks he is so big he cant really whirl and jump around like a smaller horse can. and he has a real calm temperament. but being on the green side i really dont know what he would do in every situation. Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
For you non Sensation riders, freeswing is the way traditional english leathers are attached with the ability to have a lot of swing both front back. Hard use is a Sensation innovative design that has a buckle at the base of the flap that the specially made standard Sensation stirrup leathers buckle into for maximum weight distribution engagement of the internal multi point rigging system. Your leg swing is still about 5-6 each way, but hard use your leg centered under you which can be a good thing once you get used to it if the flap is the correct length for you. Thanks Vicka for your excellent description of your experience with the different choices. Kaaren
RE: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
As more people are using the Sensations for longer periods of time or jumping, Dana has had reports of issues developing under the butterfly using free swing for longer ride times/frequent riding on the same horse. ... I did the hunter lesson thing for 3-4 years, maybe longer - we had a jump course set up at home that we used regularly. My point is that a good rider shouldn't use their stirrups more when they jump than when they do anything else - or at least that's how I've been taught. I don't really care if people use the free-swing option or the hard-use option with their Sensations - that's their choice. But, when a 100-ish-pound rider starts complaining about that flimsy butterfly plate after only a couple of months, I have to ask questions. The questions I ask are: what saddles were used on the horse in his prior life, and how much pressure is the rider putting into their stirrups? As Karen Thomas mentioned, a lot is dependant on the rider biomechanics. I'm sure it is possible for those of you riding shorter/infrequent times on different horses, with good rider balance to be ok, but those are a lot of variables. Why tempt fate when Dana has done extensive testing on the way it was designed to be used. Kaaren, I don't know who you are talking about riding infrequently, but Cary weighs 240 pounds. Yep, two hundred and forty - over twice what some riders weigh. He's been riding in a Sensation for almost two years and he typically rides 2-3 hours, sometimes less, sometimes more. That's a lot of weight, and he's been doing it in that saddle for over a year and a half. We are PICKY about watching out for Skjoni's back. I am not recommending that people Cary's size ride with free-swinging stirrups...heck, I'm not even recommending that people his size ride in a treeless saddle, but he does, and they have had no problems. (MUCH credit to Cary for finally taking an interest in how he rides.) My point is simply that the stirrup rigging isn't so much of a factor if the rider doesn't jam all their weight in their stirrups. That's not a good habit to have in any saddle, treed or not. My big fear is that people will throw the baby out with the bath water and overlook a perfectly good saddle option because of some claims that I'm not sure are valid. I'm sure the Sensations won't be THE answer for ALL riders on ALL horses...but if it works for big old Cary, then I think that's a pretty serious endorsement - for the saddle, AND for taking a few riding lessons. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1169 - Release Date: 12/3/2007 10:56 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
I also did the hunter thing with many lessons, probably more like 10 or 20 years. As Karen says, at least in that discipline, and with the instructor I rode for, very little weight should be applied to the sturrups. Even now, if I feel that I am letting weight fall into my stirrups, I correct my balance. Hunter is an edgy, reactive little guy (I love him. I really do love this horse) and it took me a while to figure out that he was made anxious when my leg rested on his side. So now, not only do I not weight my stirrup, I have to let may leg fall in a really relaxed fashion so that I'm not using it to balance on his body.. The whole thing has really helped me to regain my balance in motion. I can't remember what I was doing, maybe just dropping my stirrups for a rest, and some event happened out on trail not long ago. He sort of surged forward and then took a few trot steps. I was still right in the middle when we finished. Still stirrup-less. Nancy IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 07:15:53PM -0800, Nancy Sturm wrote: I can't remember what I was doing, maybe just dropping my stirrups for a rest, and some event happened out on trail not long ago. He sort of surged forward and then took a few trot steps. I was still right in the middle when we finished. Still stirrup-less. this is indeed an important thing. tonight i went to check on our ring's condition (fine, just a thin crust of ice over a few inches of snow), and i turned stjarni out at liberty while i poked about. of course then i had to clean his feet, and one thing led to another, and next thing i knew i had slipped the safety vest on under the icelandic riding suit (but i wasn't wearing paddock boots! i had NO idea! ;) and was slithering aboard for a bit of bareback. stjarni's a good and careful fellow, but we've been probably overemphasizing the lateral work lately, and he takes any opportunity to suddenly turn some thirty to ninety degrees and go sideways. (just with me, which is why i say we above; he doesn't pull this with my students very often.) at no point was i insecure or out-of-the-middle, even when (i've been waiting for him to try this) it happened in tolt. balance is a whole-body business, and all the tack in the world can't change that. (though a nice thick icey mane may help you now and again when you lose :) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:23:47PM -0500, Karen Thomas wrote: I don't really care if people use the free-swing option or the hard-use option with their Sensations - that's their choice. and i think it should be a choice informed by the designer of the saddle and reports of other users. But, when a 100-ish-pound rider starts complaining about that flimsy butterfly plate after only a couple of months, I have to ask questions. The questions I ask are: what saddles were used on the horse in his prior life, and how much pressure is the rider putting into their stirrups? i've always ridden stjarni in a hrimnir x-wide treed saddle, aside from the sensations. i ride him bareback as well, and without stirrups with a saddle. i can't possibly be putting more than fifty-five pounds or so of pressure per stirrup, even if i were standing on my toes, which of course i'm not. i imagine i could jump up and down to exert more force, but in fact i have not done that either. as i mentioned earlier, his previous owner was a little girl, and presumably even lighter than i am. i do not know what saddle she used, but it was at least two years between her riding and stjarni's white hairs showing up. i think it would be quite the coincidence for the white hairs to match the butterfly-plate shape so well if there were a years-old injury involved instead. He's been riding in a Sensation for almost two years and he typically rides 2-3 hours, sometimes less, sometimes more. That's a lot of weight, and he's been doing it in that saddle for over a year and a half. how often does he ride? in the summer, stjarni will get ridden for that long more days than not. (my students have thinned out since the snows hit, to which i can only say both sillies, get icelandic riding suits and yay, more free time for me! :) stjarni also, i should mention, shows white hairs rapidly after injury (he sustains bites and kicks quite often, since he deposed the former alpha in his paddock and the former alpha doesn't like it) unless they are treated fairly aggressively. he has a patch on one flank that i can't imagine how he got, but it's quite distinct and has been there for over a year. (i haven't tried treating that; it doesn't seem to bother him.) skjoni may have less graphic skin than stjarni does. My point is simply that the stirrup rigging isn't so much of a factor if the rider doesn't jam all their weight in their stirrups. That's not a good habit to have in any saddle, treed or not. are you suggesting i do that? i doubt we'd be winning two-phases (in the sensation, yet) if i were, nor has anyone said as much any time i've posted pictures of myself or my students to the list or other equestrian communities. --vicka ps. as we say in the statistical-analysis world, anecdote is not the singular form of 'data'. i do presume that the sensation's designers have, in the course of their ongoing engineering and revisioning of their saddle design, collected and examined enough information to be dignified with the term 'data', though.
[IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
Since I'm Vicka's Sensation dealer, I'm sure she won't mind me sharing that she rode her guy in free swing mostly as did her students that she used a standard Skito pad in a higher use situation teaching as well as some jumping on her own. For higher use situations Dana rec. using a Skito Dryback perhaps with additional felt liners in with the 3/4 foam. Dana does not recommend riding freeswing esp. under higher/ more fequent use situations because the weight distribution isn't as good. Kaaren
Re: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
On Mon, Dec 03, 2007 at 12:16:14PM -0800, Kaaren Jordan wrote: Since I'm Vicka's Sensation dealer, I'm sure she won't mind me sharing that she rode her guy in free swing mostly as did her students that she used a standard Skito pad in a higher use situation teaching as well as some jumping on her own. For higher use situations Dana rec. using a Skito Dryback perhaps with additional felt liners in with the 3/4 foam. Dana does not recommend riding freeswing esp. under higher/ more fequent use situations because the weight distribution isn't as good. thanks kaaren -- yes, that is what i meant by stirrup rigging. my new saddle (shorter-flap to accomodate my shorter legs and my shorter students) will hopefully distribute the weight better as we will be able to use the hard use arrangement. --vicka
RE: [IceHorses] Re: white hairs on back
My other palomino Icey, has no white areas whatsoevercomplained with every saddle until the Sensation/equine chiro found some issues with some of the saddles which we immediately stopped using..go figure. My two main riding horses over the years have both been palominos. I honestly don't know how you can say the horse does or doesn't have any white hairs in the saddle area. Sundance was darker than Sina, but both had dapples, making for some odd color patterns. And, if you look at any palomino coat carefully, you'll see that there is almost a roan-like pattern of whiter hairs interspersed in the golden hairs. And, not even considering the roaning, I see some subtle patterns on Sina that don't seem literally explained by dapples ... I'm sure you could see horribly big white patches on a palomino, but lesser patches, I sure wouldn't bank on. Sundance never had any noticeable white patches in his saddle area...but man oh man, did that horse have some SERIOUS muscle atrophy on his back. If only I could go back and live my life with him again. He probably never had a really well-fitting saddle in his life, but I only remember one saddle that made him complain. There was a really cute palomino Icelandic at the Liz Graves clinic a few weeks ago. The rider was a very conscientious-type owner, and she was so afraid that her Icelandic was getting white hairs on his back from her saddle. I stared and stared, and we asked several others to look at his back too. I was never convinced that there was any saddle-related discoloring on his back. I honestly think the coloring was just natural for him. That's why I often comment on the white hairs that I KNOW aren't saddle related. Don't get me wrong, I think it's WONDERFUL that more people than ever are concerned about saddle fit and are looking to do the best they can by their horses. But, sometimes I'm afraid the trend is going too far. Gosh, I hate to see people dropping perfectly good saddles - maybe for something much worse - for reasons that may not even be saddle-related, or for white hairs that might have been induced years prior, by saddles long abandoned. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1165 - Release Date: 12/2/2007 8:34 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
