Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> It is disgusting. It is not the dog's fault it has > irresponsible owners. Keep your aniamls better > protected with fencing and cages and quit blamming the > poor, homeless animals. I really hope someone turns > you in to the ASPCA. > Maria Maria... You really have to understand that some strays become ferrel (however you spell that) and we have no choice. Dogs have attacked my horses, killed neighbors goats and calves, killed other dogs and attacked people... once they become a ferrel pack, they are like any other wild animal that you need to protect your family and domesticated animals from. It's not a choice anyone takes lightly. Bia
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
I'm afraid that this thread may create hard feelings. Let's give it a rest. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
--- Wanda Lauscher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Janice, she > just went through a > horrendous ordeal last year when she rescued two > starving horses, one > of which developed rabies after a few weeks and had > to be put down. That is wonderful. I did not say she was a bad person. Great you have all rescued anmals. I did not say I was the only one. I merely am point out having done this, I know how they suffer and the lack of empathy for their plight is offensive to me. Why no sympathy for the dogs that must ( as you say) be killed? It seems like no big. There was an article in the paper not too long ago about a pitbull a family rescued that only a few weeks later, turned around and saved their lives by getting them out of a house during a fire. I would not be "lecturing" as you say if I saw a little sympathy for these poor creatures that "have" to be killed. Maria
RE: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
Maria~ Many of us on this list have been rescuing and rehabbing animals as long as you have. I am a licensed technician, and am in the trenches every day of animal rescue, suffering, welfare, etc. If you honestly believe that the very underpaid animal control officers know how to euthanize an animal HUMANELY, you have another thing coming. I suggest you volunteer for 2 weeks at your local humane society before you go lecturing us on how to humanely deal with stray/possibly vicious dogs that may KILL our own animals. I have been on the 3am horse calls where stray dogs have mauled a horse or baby, I have been on the animal CONTROL calls where even in an urban area you CAN'T FIND THE DOG. It's much nicer to the stray to kill it quickly before it's too late. Is that kind? I suppose that stray may have been through utter HELL and doesn't know how to act and is suffering. I agree with your assessment...a human-created problembut before WE have to pay for someone else's neglect or irresponsibility...put the animal out of it's misery. Quickly. So it won't suffer any longer. Possibly face starvation, get hit by a car, kicked by a horse to go die somewhere SLOWLY from it's injuries, or eaten by coyotes...which is KINDER? Mary Dudley, LVT "Just Dream It" Fandango Ranch
RE: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> > If you think euthanasia at public facilities is > guaranteed to be "humane", > you obviously haven't seen some of the horrible > reports I've seen I never said it was guaranteed to be humane. It should be. But nothing is perfect. Shooting a dog from a distance (as Janice said she would do), is just as likely to injure it as to kill it. Then it can suffer with it's injuries and die a slow death. Either starving or being eating by coyotes or other wild animals. Yes, that is much better. I am sure you would choose that fate for yourself over a needle. > that's more for our emotional weakness of the moment > than for the experience > of the dogs. dog face the other way and pull the trigger > ourselves - > Give me a break, Maria. I am sure you would choose that fate for yourself rather than a general anesthetic overdose. Give ME a break! > >I'm sure that most of the active > participants on this list are > just as active in animal welfare as you are. > Those would be the people who actually feel bad about having to kill a dog Maria.
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> > I just lost my two dogs this past fall. The younger one led the older > (perfect) one away. I fully expect a local farmer shot them. I lost a Standard Poodle this way probably 30 years ago. One minute he was with me in the barnyard. The next minute he was gone. I have always thought our farmer neighbor shot him. To this day, when I seen a black Standard, there's a jolt of grief. I owned two others over the years, but neither was the same as that wonderful dog - who didn't stay home one snowy winter day. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
WE can't bear the idea of shooting a beloved pet. If we were > to be honest about what was in their best interest, we'd probably have the > dog face the other way and pull the trigger ourselves - while the animal > was > happy in the comfort of familiar surroundings. Bruce, who is kind, soft-hearted and generally mushy has put down several pet dogs, two of our own horses and a pet canary. He is absolutely convinced that it is kinder than adding the trauma of either one last trip to the vet or a "scarey" vet call at the farm. I absolutely could not do this, but he can and will. As for shooting strays that are threatening livestock, please if you need to do this, don't take on the role lightly. You need to know your weapon (so you will not get hurt) and use it effectively so that anumal will not suffer. Sorry to be so graphic here, but if you make a bad shot, you're going to have a wounded and suffering animal. Be sure that there is nothing behind the predator because the shell could go right on through. There was a hunter in Oregon killed by a spent shell and two women inside a house killed recently by a New Year's Eve celebrant. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
WE can't bear the idea of shooting a beloved pet. If we were > to be honest about what was in their best interest, we'd probably have the > dog face the other way and pull the trigger ourselves - while the animal > was > happy in the comfort of familiar surroundings. >
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
In a message dated 1/13/2008 7:36:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) . Not all people can do what I did which is put chicken wire around my chain link to keep out the strays then hog wire with the smaller wire at the bottom. I have only an acre and a half. This solved my problem with the stray dogs. Now the cats did a number on my prize chickens. I don't keep live stock anymore since my kids are grown and gone. No 4H or FFA anymore. I have had one or two of my Rottweilers chase horses and bite one. I got rid of the dog and it lives in the city. I will not hesitate to train with electric if it happens again. It is my job to protect both my dogs and my horses. I guard my house kitty totally. Sylvia **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
On 12/01/2008, Xuxa'smom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have been rescuing homeless animals for over 30 > years and rehabbing and re-homing them. I have seen > the suffering they endure. I just find it offensive > that someone would discuss the shooting of a dog as if > it was nothing more than swatting a fly. Maria, I would hazard a guess that most of us on this list have been rescuing for just as long. Especially Janice, she just went through a horrendous ordeal last year when she rescued two starving horses, one of which developed rabies after a few weeks and had to be put down. I won't even go into what hardship and heartbreak that caused her and her family and all of her animals. I just lost my two dogs this past fall. The younger one led the older (perfect) one away. I fully expect a local farmer shot them. I can't tell you the heartache I went through (still am actually)but if I can't keep my dogs at home, I can't expect a local farmer to be happy to see my 140 lb dog come bounding into his yard. I won't even go into the ordeal we went through prior to that to ensure their safety. AND even when they disappeared, I was with them in the yard and they faded away into the trees when I happened to turn around to grab another forkfull of hay for one of the horses. So...no lectures on shootings or rescuing please...we've all been there...and do the best we can. Just yesterday I had another ping when we were out working with the horses and my Marty wasn't there in the background. Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
Let them pick up the dogs and euthanize them humanely. If you think euthanasia at public facilities is guaranteed to be "humane", you obviously haven't seen some of the horrible reports I've seen of mal-functioning gas chambers, overcrowded cages in the public animal shelters, etc. In fact, my daughter used to work in a vet's office, and even in the best of cases, with experienced, well-qualified vets, euthanasia can sometimes go awry. She came out of that experience with the knowledge that shooting an animal is often quicker and more painless than "euthanasia." We still elect to have our old pets put down by the vet...but that's more for our emotional weakness of the moment than for the experience of the dogs. WE can't bear the idea of shooting a beloved pet. If we were to be honest about what was in their best interest, we'd probably have the dog face the other way and pull the trigger ourselves - while the animal was happy in the comfort of familiar surroundings. Give me a break, Maria. Get your facts straight before you go off on your lectures...I'm sure that most of the active participants on this list are just as active in animal welfare as you are. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008 2:04 PM
RE: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> Sheesh. > > >You know, I understand the need to protect ones animals. If a dog were attacking my horse, child, dog and I had no other recourse, I kill it if I had to. Same with a human. But I would try everything else in my power to protect my family to avoid having to do it. Call animal control. That is why we pay them taxes. Let them pick up the dogs and euthanize them humanely. I have been rescuing homeless animals for over 30 years and rehabbing and re-homing them. I have seen the suffering they endure. I just find it offensive that someone would discuss the shooting of a dog as if it was nothing more than swatting a fly. Maria Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
RE: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
>ANimal control will come out, drive throughthe neighborhood, of course the >dogs arent around< I have the same thing at my farm, most everything around has been developed and all the wildlife and unwanteds come back to my place and eat all my small farm animals. If I am lucky enough to catch them in the act, I will shoot them, if not, I call animal control to file a report and at least get them to come patrol the area occassionally. I and my husband won't hesitate to shoot pitbulls, we have so many fighting rings around Maryland that most are breed and raised to fight so you can't take a chance on getting caught in their jaws, even animal control in this state won't turn over any of that breed to potential adopters in this state, only turn over to out of state animal rescues so they don't get put back into maryland circulation. I have come home many times to find dead poultry, cats, sheep strung out on the farm, just killed for sport of pack dogs, not even remotely chewed on like they were hungry. Really sad to see and makes one very angry to have happen to nice livestock.
RE: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> It is disgusting. It is not the dog's fault it has irresponsible owners. Keep your aniamls better protected with fencing and cages and quit blamming the poor, homeless animals. I really hope someone turns you in to the ASPCA. >> Sheesh. I'm sorry if I was rude with my one word reply last night. But, Maria, you suggested that Janice call animal control to come get the strays.I take it that you don't live in a rural area where dogs are often dumped. Ok, then, let me explain. Janice explained part when she said that animal control would send a truck out to drive by the roads in the area. When there are thousands of acres of land with only a tiny bit of road frontage, the chance of the animal control officer seeing the dogs is slim to non-existent. Meanwhile, these overworked guys get other calls - maybe to check out a dog that has bitten someone, so they can't exactly spend days combing through private (or public) property looking for strays. So, as Janice described, they go to the next call. In our county, and I think in most, it's legal to shoot a dog that's on your property that is threatening harm to humans or animals - in fact, the animal control officers we've called in the past have told us when they didn't immediately see the dogs, to go ahead and "take care of things." But, suppose for a minute that animal control DOES find the strays...and suppose the strays are compliant enough (yeah, right) to allow themselves to be caught in a reasonable time frame - say thirty minutes or less. Not likely , but what happens then? In most areas, the dogs are hauled to the county animal shelter. Depending on the state/county laws, if animal control deems the untagged, unidentifiable dogs a threat, they may choose to immediately kill the dog. In some areas, they may be forced by law to hold the animal for two weeks, or for some period defined by local law. How many dogs get adopted...particularly of the "aggressive dog" stereotypes? Precious few, practically none. So, even IF Janice could have gotten animal control out, and IF animal control could have caught the dogs, the dogs would have come to the same fate as if the owner (Janice and Donny in this case) went ahead and shot them. Obviously, Janice and Donny didn't want to kill the dogs, because they chose not to kill them. Donny shot OVER the dogs. Gosh knows, we've unfortunately had to do that a few times - and I can't remember a time where we actually killed one. Maybe sometimes we SHOULD have killed them, rather than leave them running wild to starve, or get hit by a car, or to end up shot eventually anyway as another farmer catches them (hopefully BEFORE) they injure some neighboring farm animals...or worse, a child. This is a huge problem in this country, but you're barking up the wrong tree if you expect calling the SPCA on one of us list members to help anything...a LOT of people on this list who doesn't (or hasn't) taken in an occasional stray - despite the risk of disease and the expense of getting their basic health needs up-to-date. But there are WAY more strays than there are homes. Talk to your Congressman or local law makers about the Michael Vicks of the world, the guys who are "role models" for all the young and irresponsible dudes who have to have their "bad-a$$" dogs. Talk to moms of small kids who buy cute Frank-type-puppies at the pet store, then decide two weeks later that the puppies are too-much-trouble, and dump them at the pound. Talk to young redneck hunters who don't know how to select and/or train their hunting dogs, and who dump them off on some county road. Preach to THESE people, and MAYBE you'll get somewhere I've probably taken in more strays (dogs, cats, and rehab/rescue/project horses) than most people on this list. But, you know what? As tenderhearted as I am, I'd shoot an adult pit-bull/chow/whatever type dog that was threatening to injure one of my animals Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008 2:04 PM
RE: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> It is disgusting. It is not the dog's fault it has irresponsible owners. Keep your aniamls better protected with fencing and cages and quit blamming the poor, homeless animals. I really hope someone turns you in to the ASPCA. Sheesh. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1221 - Release Date: 1/12/2008 2:04 PM
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> > learned we have to kill strays, or they will come > > back every day til > >> that is so sad. It is disgusting. It is not the dog's fault it has irresponsible owners. Keep your aniamls better protected with fencing and cages and quit blamming the poor, homeless animals. I really hope someone turns you in to the ASPCA. Maria
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> learned we have to kill strays, or they will come > back every day til > they kill every chicken you have etc. But this time > they are REALLY > asking for it, messing with my baby Nasi! > Janice that is so sad. Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
On Jan 11, 2008 10:21 PM, Xuxa'smom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > things and maybe put the donkey in with them or > > switch paddocks with > > stonewall and traveller, who are meaner to dogs. > > Rather than shooting the dogs, why not call animal > control. I am sure they must have laws against vicious > dogs being loose in your county. > > Maria > oh haha haha thats a good one Maria! People put dogs out here all the time because we are in a rural area off a major highway. I dont know what they are thinking. ANimal control will come out, drive through the neighborhood, of course the dogs arent around, there's only 36,000 acres of wilderness conservation area for them to roam in. Then they go back to the office and close the report. In my area we all have learned we have to kill strays, or they will come back every day til they kill every chicken you have etc. But this time they are REALLY asking for it, messing with my baby Nasi! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
If they come back I hope my husband can shoot them far enough > away so they dont stink real bad,. cause they are g-o-n-e GONE. > Janice > Please, hunt those dogs down and kill them. I took one of my mares to the vet about a year ago, and when I got there I noticed a pit bull tied in the back of a pickup. No horse in the trailer. Then I saw the horse. It had at least 25 bites, it's nose was shredded, its belly and legs with many bites, some quite serious, most requiring sutures. This dog was a family pet, kids played with it, but for some reason it attacked the horse in the middle of the night. In my opinion even a threat from a pit bill gives it no second chance. Fortunately they put this dog to sleep before it left the vet. Janet Caliente, California
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> things and maybe put the donkey in with them or > switch paddocks with > stonewall and traveller, who are meaner to dogs. Rather than shooting the dogs, why not call animal control. I am sure they must have laws against vicious dogs being loose in your county. Maria
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
In a message dated 1/11/2008 2:07:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] write Be careful I had two dogs team tag my steer. They chewed the heck out of his underside. One was a bull dog and the other a shepherd. Try to treat a wild cow with meds. hohoho. Sylvia **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
> > Oh dear, do you think he would've attacked Nasi if your hubby hadn't > shot at him? > V > I think he was so close to the fence that he was trying to figure out if he could get ahold of Nasi's nose through the fence wire and Nasi just seemed mesmerized by it. we just went out to dinner and came home and circled back there and Nasi was lying down near the gate and Tivar was across the paddock standing at the fence, in the exact same position Nasi was earlier, we pulled the truck around and looked for dogs but saw none, then my husband pointed out the other horses were staring the other way. I am going out every hour or so and check on things and maybe put the donkey in with them or switch paddocks with stonewall and traveller, who are meaner to dogs. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
On Jan 11, 2008 5:56 PM, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> He just > stared at nasi like a hungry predator and nasi just stared at him like > "oh look, a dog". Oh dear, do you think he would've attacked Nasi if your hubby hadn't shot at him? V
[IceHorses] gonna kill a dog
came home today and saw nasi standing looking out into the vacant lot next door. Thought hmm, what is he looking at, usually means a deer or something. Then my husband saw two pitbulls on the other side of the fence, one right at Nasi's feet on the other sifde of the pasture fence, one about six feet away. The one right at the fence turned and trotted off when my husband got out of the truck but the other stayed there watching while my husband went inside to get the gun. He just stared at nasi like a hungry predator and nasi just stared at him like "oh look, a dog". My husband shot over his head and the dog just stared at him and then mosied off like "I'll leave when I get good and ready." If they come back I hope my husband can shoot them far enough away so they dont stink real bad,. cause they are g-o-n-e GONE. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
