Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:44:01 -0500, you wrote: As far as the tiredness or depression - whatever it is - I'd have to ask how long it takes for a horse to travel from Iceland, to for instance, KY, or from Iceland to Wales? To get here, they have a 3 hour flight to Luxembourg, usually a couple of hours minimum faffing around at the airport with vet checks etc, then 3 hours in a truck, a 5 hour boat journey, then another truck journey - at the time I was in Dorset so it was about 3 hours. To come here from Dover would be 6 hours, roughly. I don't think it's the actual journey itself that made them tired beyond a couple of days. More like the stress from all the new things, leaving everything they know etc, perhaps causing depression which manifested itself as tiredness. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
In a message dated 1/29/2008 7:38:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes My filly came in from Oregon and was in TERROR. She tried to go thru the arena bars to escape. It was awful. She was so scared she was afraid of me, she was going to bite and kick.. She was a mess for a couple of days until I borrowed some horses to keep her company. I was running around putting extra fencing up where the arena bars were wide enough for her to try to get out. She was in fight and flight mode poor little thing. It just took her a couple of days to get calmed down enough for me to handle her. I still have most of her herd here and she will have to get over it when they go home. Of course my gelding will stay. That should be enough. Sylvia **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:12:54 -0500, you wrote: I've never had one come here who showed anything close to terror - not even the ones who came here as rehabs/rescues. Neither have I, including unhandled youngsters. Even one (a 4 year old) who arrived with the most awful cut on her hind leg which she did in the crate. She was in pain, but no way was she terrified. Mind you, the first time Kalsi trod on a stick in the woods which was connected to a leafy bit of tree and it swung up under his tummy, he nearly had a nervous breakdown, poor chap! ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Mufassa
To get here, they have a 3 hour flight to Luxembourg, usually a couple of hours minimum faffing around at the airport with vet checks etc, then 3 hours in a truck, a 5 hour boat journey, then another truck journey - at the time I was in Dorset so it was about 3 hours. To come here from Dover would be 6 hours, roughly. Sina and Melnir took about 8 hours to get here from KY. They were locals. The ones from British Columbia took about 7-10 days to get here, depending on who else the hauler had on his route. (Except for Skjoni and Falki whose kidnap delayed them by seven WEEKS.) Loftur took about 12 hours from South Florida - about the same as for Svertla from Janice's house, but she'd had a 6-8 hour trip the day before. The ones from California and Arizona took about 4-6 days, depending on the hauler's route. Eitill had about a 12 hour drive back to Michigan, but the hauler had to pick him up a day or two early and keep him at his farm to fit him into the travel route. I think he had about a 2-3 day trip down from Michigan, because the hauler had other horses to pick up and deliver along the way. I don't think it's the actual journey itself that made them tired beyond a couple of days. More like the stress from all the new things, leaving everything they know etc, perhaps causing depression which manifested itself as tiredness. I feel sure mine had several days of actual physical tiredness, in addition to depression/whatever from leaving their old homes and old friends, and learning the new terrain, vegetation, animals, etc., plus learning us humans. Moving horses great distances is bound to have some stress involved - thus I've become quite loyal to the hauler I use who really goes above and beyond to minimize it. But, I'm really not sure why moving horses from Iceland SHOULD be more stressful than what mine went through to come to NC. I've never had one come here who showed anything close to terror - not even the ones who came here as rehabs/rescues. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1248 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 9:32 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 08:12:54AM -0500, Karen Thomas wrote: Sina and Melnir took about 8 hours to get here from KY. stjarni took four days to get here from ky, but three of them were spent at a show en route -- he was taken there by gudmar, then from there by some kind folks on their way back to maine. he arrived in good shape except for a six-inch rub on his gaskin -- the folks from maine had put him in the middle of the trailer so he (the biggest one in the trailer by far) would be over the center axle, and the bar enclosing him was too tight. he came off the trailer fine, though, we turned him out and within five minutes he'd made friends with hailo (our crazy ottb) and was peacefully grazing. i took him on a short lead-line walk, then a short trail ride, and he was fine. there wasn't really a distinct settling-in period, and now that i've had him a year and a half i don't expect too many sudden changes from adaptation. he'd been in the us for seven years at that point, though, so i don't think we had much that was new to him. except that he still goes wild when we get a real snowstorm -- he loves them, and i don't think he'd seen anything like new england during his first seven years in the american south. but i think stjarni's a truly exceptional horse in his ability to adapt to changes and move along peacefully with his life. i certainly take far longer to adapt myself after any move, and i wouldn't blame a horse who did either. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
My filly came in from Oregon and was in TERROR. She tried to go thru the arena bars to escape. It was awful. She was so scared she was afraid of me, she was going to bite and kick.. She was a mess for a couple of days until I borrowed some horses to keep her company. That's not the same thing I'm talking about. She's a baby, just separated from her mama, and was initially without other equine contact. I can understand that kind of terror in a weanling. It's hard on most adult horses to live alone, and exceptionally so for one so young. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] Mufassa
he'd been in the us for seven years at that point, though, so i don't think we had much that was new to him. except that he still goes wild when we get a real snowstorm -- he loves them, and i don't think he'd seen anything like new england during his first seven years in the american south. Kentucky is only marginally part of the American south when it comes to weather. We get some occasional snows here in south-central NC - probably averaging 1-3 snowfalls per year, usually less than 2-4 accumulation, although we sometimes get over a foot. But, since we looked at the property in KY, I've been tracking KY temps and weather. It appears that central KY typically has highs of 8-20 degrees colder than we get here in the winter, with MUCH more ice and snow than we get here in the middle south. FYI, the weather in the northern NC mountains (Blowing Rock/Boone area) has winter weather very much like New England's. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.15/1248 - Release Date: 1/28/2008 9:32 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:58:32 -0500, you wrote: skeptical...why would anyone WANT a 15+ H Icelandic? I really would not! (and I'm tall and large myself). I once rode a really big one in Iceland, genuinely above 15hh, and I really didn't like him. He felt sooo cumbersome, not fast and nippy like the ones I'm used to. Skessa, who I had on loan before xmas, is 14hh and a bit, and that's plenty big enough. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
Assume for a minute then that he really is 15H+...and I've seen SO many Icelandic's touted about 3-4 taller than they really are that I remain skeptical...why would anyone WANT a 15+ H Icelandic? Considering the average height of the breed is about 13-13.2H, wouldn't you be suspicious that there is something genetically aberrant about a horse so unusually tall? I would. I have frequently seen poorly gaited horses that conformation-wise were outside the norm for the breed. And most often of these, it was when a horse of short breeding was exceptionally tall. Mostly, paso finos. They are just like icelandic people seem to be lately and I dont know what the heck they are thinking!! paso finos are SHORT. Icelandics are SHORT. if it aint broke, dont FIX it. any time you BREED for something besides gait and temperament you are gonna sacrifice gait and temperament, and that goes for color too! Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
Yes, I did talk to Gudmar about him. He will be for sale when he settles down to all his surrounding. At the show the poor guy was afraid of everything. The KY Horse Park has beautiful white fence and paved roads. He was terrified of the fences, roads, etc. Great. Just what the USA does NOT need: another tall, skittish horse. We have plenty of those already - gaited and non-gaited. If tall and skittish is your thing, just call your local rescue agency and they can probably offer you a dozen or more that fit that description - for free, or for a tiny adoption fee. (Of course, you might get lucky and find some tall, non-spooky horses there too.) What a bad impression to give people of the breed...and pity the poor horse. How much will Gudmar ask for this horse... $10,000, $12,000, or even $15,000? Gudmar states that sometimes it take a year or longer for a horse to get comfortable after importation. IMHO, if it regularly takes a year for horses to adjust to a new country, that's a lot of unnecessary stress on a horse. Sure, I think it can take as much as a year for most horses to FULLY feel relaxed in a new home, but if one is terrified of such basic landscape items as fences and roads, that's another ball of wax altogether. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] Mufassa
Thanks Renee, I am going to one of Gudmar's clinics in May and will ask him about the big guy myself since he will be available. I might have to start thinking about selling my Am. Cream Draft horse, otherwise my husband would shoot medead!
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
down to all his surrounding. At the show the poor guy was afraid of everything. The KY Horse Park has beautiful white fence and paved roads. He was terrified of the fences, roads, etc. maybe when he came to america and saw there were actually horses even taller than him it freaked him out :) Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
In a message dated 1/28/2008 8:29:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All this talk about how tall is the pony, I very carefully measured my Willie/Segull and he is right on the mark of 13 hh. Next I will measure his chest or barrel, and his leg below the knee. I figured out standing him on pavement and getting on he was taller than I thought. Sylvia **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
All this talk about how tall is the pony, I very carefully measured my Willie/Segull and he is right on the mark of 13 hh. Next I will measure his chest or barrel, and his leg below the knee. I figured out standing him on pavement and getting on he was taller than I thought. Sylvia That's the other side of the height thing that has surprised me: how few Icelandic's are actually UNDER 13.0H. I initially assumed that Sina was about 12.2-12.3H - she's a stocky girl, but NOT tall. She too measures right on 13.0H. You'd certainly get the impression that Tivar is several inches taller than Sina...but he only measured 13.1H, just an inch taller than her. Despite the fact that there APPEARS to be a wide range of sizes in this breed, I think the vast majority are between 13.0H and 13.3H - a few under and a few over - and that's just fine with me. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
i know in paso finos they try to breed taller ones sometimes, and when you breed for anything other than gait and temperament you sacrifice gait, even breeding for color. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:11:35 -0500, you wrote: Sure, I think it can take as much as a year for most horses to FULLY feel relaxed in a new home, but if one is terrified of such basic landscape items as fences and roads, that's another ball of wax altogether. When I used to import horses from Iceland fairly regularly, most of them settled really well in about 6 weeks or so, though occasionally one would take longer. It wasn't that the horses were afraid, once they had got over seeing big trees/huge horses/walking on the wrong side of the road etc, it was more that they seemed very, very tired, and sometimes depressed. But only a couple of times did it take more than 6 months. One of those was my beloved Kalsi, but then he came with a fair bit of baggage. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
Karen, I don't think that a year for a horse to settle into a new country is unreal. I'm very well aware that it takes horses a while to settle in a new environment. I've brought about 20 Icelandic's into NC, several literally even imported from Canada. I have one who was born in Iceland, who then went to south Florida, before coming to NC - three entirely different areas re: terrain,climates, and vegetation. He wasn't terrified, and really settled about as quickly as any horse I've had. I have one horse who came from the American southwest desert about 2500 miles away. Even the terrain/vegetation even in the desert of British Columbia (where several of mine are from) is quite different from NC. We have different kind of shade and shadows here, falling rustling leaves from deciduous trees, (not many deciduous trees in BC or in the desert southwest) and many things that are terribly different from what they are used to. I have yet to see a horse come to NC who is terrified of such mundane things as fences and roads, or falling leaves or wind blowing through the trees. I HAVE seen them take in a few new sights with a slightly questioning look, but not with anything even vaguely approaching terror. Not even Angie, who I got as a project horse because she is supposedly so nervous. (I don't consider her unduly nervous - she's settling in nicely.) This isn't the first time I've heard of an import being terrified of virtually everything. Why is that? I DO believe that all horses grieve at least a little when they leave a comfortable home, but I'm not sure why the adjustment from Iceland should be so very different than, say, the adjustment from British Columbia to NC, or from South Florida to NC, or from Arizona to NC. I suspect the loss of friends and familiarity is a bigger part of the shock than merely moving from one country to another - I don't think horses have any concept of country. He had just arrived when the Kentucky show was going on and that in itself had to create a lot more commotion to his already stressed big move. My next question would be why drag a horse so poorly and incompletely adjusted to his new home out to a show so quickly...?For bragging rights, to show him off because he's so big...? Why not wait until he was better settled, and the horse is over his grief? Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
When I used to import horses from Iceland fairly regularly, most of them settled really well in about 6 weeks or so, though occasionally one would take longer. It wasn't that the horses were afraid, once they had got over seeing big trees/huge horses/walking on the wrong side of the road etc, it was more that they seemed very, very tired, and sometimes depressed. But only a couple of times did it take more than 6 months. One of those was my beloved Kalsi, but then he came with a fair bit of baggage. The with baggage part I can understand - if the horse has never been given any reason to trust people, then it would make sense that any change might be more scary to him. As far as the tiredness or depression - whatever it is - I'd have to ask how long it takes for a horse to travel from Iceland, to for instance, KY, or from Iceland to Wales? In the USA, I believe they fly directly from Iceland into NYC, stay in quarantine for a day or two, then can be trailered to their final destination...? If that's true, a horse could make it from Iceland to KY in notably less time than one coming by trailer from British Columbia to NC. I would say if you looked at my horses' most superficial behaviors, most people would have said they didn't need ANY period of adjustment. But, after seeing how different they were a year later, I think most needed that long to FULLY adjust. It was subtle, especially for some, but I feel sure they all grieved and worried some. Think about us changing jobs for instance. We may know immediately that we like a new job, but it takes a while for the routine to become such that we feel truly at home with the change. And, if we changed jobs, odds are we had a clue what the new job would entail - a horse makes a move without any inkling of what's coming up. That has to be worrisome to them. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
its not my imagination, i swear, but every time I load Tivar up before daylight or after daylight he is upset, calls out the trailer window, acts very grumpy and restless in the trailer. me and my husband always say tivar thinks he is going to california haha Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Mufassa
horses are like dogs, very very into consistency and daily routine, time schedules etc. I very very rarely pack up and go for a ride in the afternoon. i almost exclusively ride in a routine of get up before day, feed, go out an hour or two later, around 7 or so and get the horse caught up and loaded. My horses know when I do this we are going for a ride. yesterday I had all the horses out in my front yard and on spur of the moment a friend called around 2 PM., i ran out and loaded Jaspar, started the truck, looked up thru the windshield and oh my gosh you would think I was a child abductor. My entire herd was gathered in front of the trailer, snorting, blowing, whirling and bolting, calling... even curly who hates jaspar, and Tivar, who normally wont be disturbed from his hay even if a cannon went off by his head was one of the most upset. I was so amused really. When I came home they met me at the gate when they heard the deisel engine and I had to shoo them so I could pull in. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
RE: [IceHorses] Mufassa
Yes, Mufassa is very large. Gudmar had him at the KY Show and he is HUGE!! His shoe size is a 2. They did a comparison to another Icelandic, Gaefa who was 13.0 hands, just for fun. Assume for a minute then that he really is 15H+...and I've seen SO many Icelandic's touted about 3-4 taller than they really are that I remain skeptical...why would anyone WANT a 15+ H Icelandic? Considering the average height of the breed is about 13-13.2H, wouldn't you be suspicious that there is something genetically aberrant about a horse so unusually tall? I would. I'd also worry that a horse that unusually out of normal range would have odd skeletal angles and proportions - would he be able to carry weight as well as a more compact Icelandic? Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.12/1245 - Release Date: 1/26/2008 3:45 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Mufassa
Renee, did you spend some time talking to Gudmar about who he brought Mufassa over here for? Is there a plan for him or is he something that Gudmar wanted to keep for himself?
