Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations / Spreading Them Out
>>> I do agree that it would be better to spread the shots out, but since my >>> vet is 2 1/2 hours away and charges me $95 for a farm call now, I had >>> them done all at once. She did some on one side and the others on the >>> other side, hoping that might help for any soreness--of course, it >>> wouldn't help with overloading their system. That's a real concern, Ferne. If I were convinced that combined vaccines were dangerous for most horses, I'd give them separately and cough up the farm call fee, but I'm not convinced it's a big deal. I know too many horses who have lived too long getting five-way vaccines every year with no side-effects. I suppose we can give them ourselves...but there are downsides to that too. Where do you get your vaccines? (Not Ferne, but anyone who buys them...) If you mail order them, how does the company ship them? Many vaccines are worthless if they aren't kept under a given temperature, and would you bank on UPS or FedEx not to let them get too warm? I've heard stories of vaccines arriving in suitable cooler boxes, but the vaccines inside the boxes were warm. I've seen the cooler doors left open for the vaccines refrigerator at the farm supply stores... I suppose there's no guarantee that a vet-given vaccine might have gotten warm somewhere along the way, but I'll betcha most vet offices are more diligent about monitoring that sort of thing than is your UPS depot. There's risks to everything we do with horses, but I'm not overly worried about giving healthy horses combined vaccines. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations / Spreading Them Out
>>> At that > time, we suggested that the vaccinations be spread out. I do agree that it would be better to spread the shots out, but since my vet is 2 1/2 hours away and charges me $95 for a farm call now, I had them done all at once. She did some on one side and the others on the other side, hoping that might help for any soreness--of course, it wouldn't help with overloading their system. Ferne
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations / Spreading Them Out
Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> kirjoitti: > > >>> more and more evidence that the 3 or 5 way shots are > > not the best way to go - separating and spreading out the shots like > > this is much better for the horse. > > > I know that years ago when we discussed SE and imported Icelandics, it was > felt that giving the shots all at once had something to do with compromising > their immune system and potentially leaving them more open to SE. At that > time, we suggested that the vaccinations be spread out. In Finland we only routinely give influenza and tetanus and many (if not most?) horses are totally unvaccinated. Still SE is quite common among imported Icelandics. Krisse
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations / Spreading Them Out
> > I know that years ago when we discussed SE and imported Icelandics, it was > felt that giving the shots all at once had something to do with compromising > their immune system and potentially leaving them more open to SE. At that > time, we suggested that the vaccinations be spread out. Sometimes I think it's hard to know how hitting a horse with all of that all at one time affects them. It may not be an overt reaction but might leave them susceptible to something else - like the SE - which we might not associate as a result of the 5/3-way shot. It's one of those that I err on the side of caution and separate my shots -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley "I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands." - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
> I have never been told that it lasts for a full year here in the southeast. > I think there are some newer vaccines on the market (or due out? can't > remember now) that may provide longer immunity, but I'll be extra-cautious > for a while longer. They are out but my vet, like you, recommended waiting a while, also. He agrees that it is better to give a new vaccine time - to wash out all the kinks. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley "I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands." - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations / Spreading Them Out
>>> more and more evidence that the 3 or 5 way shots are > not the best way to go - separating and spreading out the shots like > this is much better for the horse. I know that years ago when we discussed SE and imported Icelandics, it was felt that giving the shots all at once had something to do with compromising their immune system and potentially leaving them more open to SE. At that time, we suggested that the vaccinations be spread out. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
>>> I think there is more and more evidence that the 3 or 5 way shots are >>> not the best way to go - separating and spreading out the shots like >>> this is much better for the horse. I've given five-ways for 20 years, and I know a bunch of people who do the same with absolutely no side-effects. Over the past several (5?) years, I've cut back on giving all the horses five-way vaccines every year, but I'm still not worried about them for healthy horses. If people want to split them, I wouldn't go so far as discourage it, but I know way too many 25-30+ year old horses who've had a bunch of combo vaccines every year for their entire lives who are thriving. The only reaction we've ever seen to a vaccine was Thunder, to one of his early WNV. Within a few hours he showed some minor neurological symptoms - dribbling urine, not retracting his penis, dragging his rear toes a little, but the symptoms went away in something like 12 hours. He's had his WNV twice a year since, and never had another reaction. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
>>> I have been doing WN three-four times a year! I didnt even know its >>> supposed to last a year! We already had a HUMAN die of WNV in our >>> county this year! I have never been told that it lasts for a full year here in the southeast. I think there are some newer vaccines on the market (or due out? can't remember now) that may provide longer immunity, but I'll be extra-cautious for a while longer. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
>>> Karen - I'm curious - why would you give WNV 2Xa year and EEE and WEE >>> only once a year since they are all mosquito borne? I'm just wondering >>> if I'm missing something about the transmission because I would like to >>> cut my EEE/WEE back to once a year. Yes, they are both mosquito-borne but my understanding is the the length of immunity is better established and trusted for WEE and EEE. Those vaccines have been around a lot longer than WNV. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
> > I think the coverage afforded by the vaccine lasts for a shorter period of > time with the WN vaccine than it does for the EEE and the WEE and the > Tetanus vaccines. Because the coverage is generally for a shorter time > period than the mosquitos are present it is not unusual to vaccinate for WN > more than once a year. OK, that makes sense. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley "I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands." - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
> Karen - I'm curious - why would you give WNV 2Xa year and EEE and WEE > only once a year since they are all mosquito borne? I think the coverage afforded by the vaccine lasts for a shorter period of time with the WN vaccine than it does for the EEE and the WEE and the Tetanus vaccines. Because the coverage is generally for a shorter time period than the mosquitos are present it is not unusual to vaccinate for WN more than once a year. If we vaccinate for WN early in the year (April or early in May) in our area, it is suggested that we vaccinate again later in the summer to be sure that the coverage lasts intil mosquito season is over. Pat G., in MN
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
I have been doing WN three-four times a year! I didnt even know its supposed to last a year! We already had a HUMAN die of WNV in our county this year! yi. i feel like i live in darkest africa sometimes. janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
> > Usually give these 2-3 weeks apart I think there is more and more evidence that the 3 or 5 way shots are not the best way to go - separating and spreading out the shots like this is much better for the horse. Here is a link to an excellent article on annual vaccinations: http://www.harmonyequine.com/vaccines.stm -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley "I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands." - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
> I give WNV, EEE, WEE and tetanus regularly; WEE and EEE once a year, and WNV > twice a year, since the vet feels that's appropriate for the length of our > mosquito season. Karen - I'm curious - why would you give WNV 2Xa year and EEE and WEE only once a year since they are all mosquito borne? I'm just wondering if I'm missing something about the transmission because I would like to cut my EEE/WEE back to once a year. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley "I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands." - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
>>> What vaccinations do you give and how often? It depends on the age of the horse, and what illnesses are in my area at the time. For instance, we gave Potomac Horse Fever for a few years, many years ago, because a horse not too far away had it. No other horses came down with it, so he probably got it while away at a show. We haven't given it in years now, but I'd consider it if there was a reason. I give WNV, EEE, WEE and tetanus regularly; WEE and EEE once a year, and WNV twice a year, since the vet feels that's appropriate for the length of our mosquito season. A also give rabies annually. I suspect that's more often than necessary, but rabies is the oldest and safest vaccine known, and if you skip it, the possibilities are unbearable - theoretically, they COULD make you put unvaccinated horses down if they were exposed to a known rabid animal. At minimum, they'd have to be quarantined for something like 7-12 months. When Svertla was quarantined, it was barely an inconvenience, since she alone was affected. All of my others were vaccinated, so they could move about freely, to shows, clinics, trail rides, whatever we chose. I also give the babies their shots per the vet's instructions. That means they get flu and rhino too - and probably something else that I'm forgetting this early in the am. I like to make sure they get a baseline immunity for life. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
>2008/5/28 Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > What vaccinations do you give and how often? EEE / WEE / Tetanus - once a year West Nile - once a year Rabies-once a year Usually give these 2-3 weeks apart Don't give flu unless traveling, never give strangles, give Pneumabort Rhino vaccine to pregnant mares. Cherie W. North Carolina Lilja, Roka (Icelandics), Tyra(Fjord) No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1470 - Release Date: 5/28/2008 7:20 AM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
strangles vaccine can cause strangles in weird cases... i would not vaccinate unless there was an outbreak but ask your vet... if you have horses near you, I maybe would, but my horse is a closed herd except for the ones I take off riding. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
i do what Laree does but west Nile one more time (we have longer summers, way longer) and rhino/flu to my horses that leave the property. I do strangles if there is an outbreak only, and my vet always tells people when there is an outbreak and I always buy---this is verrryyy important--- my rabies and west nile from the vet. Why? because I want a RECORD. When my rescue horse died of rabies, by law, the rest of my horses could have been quarantined at MY expense for up to TWO years because I had no shot records. And west nile is another disease where the health dept is gonna end up on your door step. I imagine enceph too? But I'm not sure. I just know when my horse showed symptoms of a neurologic illness they said if he died they would need to have his brain to send off. Also, if you give shots yourself, save the wrappers and mark which you gave to each horse, so if there is a reaction you will have the info. I have two horses that have reactions to things so I give them their shots in single doses. also my icelandics so as to not overstimulate the immune sys I give them single doses two weeks apart. My McCurdy horse seemed to actually HAVE encephalitis when I gave him a five in one shot years ago, and it got down to the third day of not eating and hanging listlessly and he was just about to have to go in and be put on an IV when he finally started coming around. And he is a small gene pool horse breed as are icelandics. Janice -- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I only give a flu/rhino if the horses are going to be traveling a lot > or would have to go to the vet school or some other equine hospital > for some reason. Oh, I forgot. The vet gave the Appy and Magic Flu/Rhino because we do travel with them a bit. Well, Magic goes down to Ann's twice a month and then it is better- weather timecnow, so we will be trailering out and riding more--occasionally where there are other horses... Ferne
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A good question on the gaitedhorse list: > > What vaccinations do you give and how often? My vet was just here for everyone's shots and I said something about seeing her in 6 months for WNV and she said she felt that the new WNV vaccine was now safe and she would be using it and that they only need it once a year. Sounds good to me. Other than that, we give the 4 or 5-way with the E & W & Tetanus and also Rabies... So guess we will only need yearly shots now... Ferne
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
2008/5/28 Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > What vaccinations do you give and how often? The vet is coming out on Friday to give what we call a 'three-way" which includes: EEE / WEE / Tetanus - once a year West Nile - once a year I've also asked for Rabies this year. (asked for it last year but they forgot it) I used to give strangles and rhino / flu but I'm not planning to attend any clinics this year and will be keeping my herd fairly closed due to the herpes outbreak that happened in the city. The vet will also be looking at Gusti's teeth again. He's dropping weight and he's dropping his food. Not like my Gusti at all. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
> I could research by putting the names in google? > I would type in something like "controversies surrounding strangles vaccines for horses" and hopefully that would give you some feedback from both sides. Of course, you can just search on equine vaccines to get some background info. I think if you search the archives of this list you may even find some discussion about this. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley "I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands." - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>The strangles is a > very controversial vaccine - I think the barn added the strangles after their barn had a huge outbreak and it was bad. This was before my horses were there. > do > your research and make up your own mind. I could research by putting the names in google? V
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
> > Is EEE/WEE Eastern Encephalomyelitis and Western Encephalomyelitis? > Yes > At the boarding barn my two had vaccinations once a year and before > they came home they got the following: > > Respiratory Rhinopneumonitis > Influenza > Eastern Encephalomyelitis > Western Encephalomyelitis > West Nile Encephalomyelitis > Streptococcus equi (strangles) > Tetanus Toxoid > Rabies > > Next year, will I need all the same now that my horses are home and > not exposed to so many other horses? Yes, the EEE/WEE and West Nile are mosquito borne and the Tetanus can be anywhere there is dirt. I don't know how prevalent rabies is in your area but that most likely wouldn't come from another horse but from a rabid wild animal - like a skunk or fox. The strangles is a very controversial vaccine - you should just do your homework on that and decide for yourself. I don't see a need for flu/rhino if you aren't being exposed to other horses on a regular basis, but again, do your research and make up your own mind. -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley "I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands." - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > EEE/WEE/Tetanus - 2 X /year > Is EEE/WEE Eastern Encephalomyelitis and Western Encephalomyelitis? At the boarding barn my two had vaccinations once a year and before they came home they got the following: Respiratory Rhinopneumonitis Influenza Eastern Encephalomyelitis Western Encephalomyelitis West Nile Encephalomyelitis Streptococcus equi (strangles) Tetanus Toxoid Rabies Next year, will I need all the same now that my horses are home and not exposed to so many other horses? V
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A good question on the gaitedhorse list: > > What vaccinations do you give and how often? EEE/WEE/Tetanus - 2 X /year West NIle - -- 2 X /year (we're in mosquito country) Rabies - 1 X/ year (though I think this is probably way too often) I only give a flu/rhino if the horses are going to be traveling a lot or would have to go to the vet school or some other equine hospital for some reason. Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley "I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands." - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
On 10/1/07, IceDog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I believe I was likely the first to suggest less aggressive vaccination > schedules, along with the first to promote barefoot and bitless riding (even > before this list existed). > > I've always been on the less harsh side, funny that some (relative > newcomers) who don't know me or my history like to place me elsewhere! :o) > > Cheryl > well I for one am proud of your for that. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
> Many years ago, on the list, we came to the conclusion that it was much > better for the imported horses to have their vaccinations separately and > spread out over a period of time. I believe I was likely the first to suggest less aggressive vaccination schedules, along with the first to promote barefoot and bitless riding (even before this list existed). I've always been on the less harsh side, funny that some (relative newcomers) who don't know me or my history like to place me elsewhere! :o) Cheryl Sand Creek Icelandics Icelandic Horses & Icelandic Sheepdogs website: www.toltallyice.com
Re: [IceHorses] Vaccinations
giving 2 weeks in between is a little safer for the horse > than giving all the vax at one time. Many years ago, on the list, we came to the conclusion that it was much better for the imported horses to have their vaccinations separately and spread out over a period of time. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
