Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Tim Chown]

On 20 Jan 2012, at 00:37, Stuart Cheshire wrote:
> 
> Good suggestion Brian.
> 
> I just called our corporate travel department and got the same rate as IETF, 
> including free Internet and breakfast, and "cancel by 6 PM on check-in day".

Nice if you have such a department :)

I booked a room by fax and the email confirmation took 11 days to arrive, so 
don't expect a quick turnaround.

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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Stuart Cheshire]

On 3 Jan 2012, at 13:35, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> There's a third case, "paid a lower rate than the conference rate"
> (usually due to a smart corporate travel agent). I've never
> understood why conferences don't get a corporate-equivalent rate.
> 
>   Brian

Good suggestion Brian.

I just called our corporate travel department and got the same rate as IETF, 
including free Internet and breakfast, and "cancel by 6 PM on check-in day".

Stuart Cheshire

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Re: [IAOC] primary Paris hotel booking

[Stuart Cheshire]

On 3 Jan 2012, at 16:02, Bob Hinden wrote:

> Wes,
> 
> I think everyone on the IAOC was surprised when we first heard that the 
> meeting hotel insisted that people can only use fax or email to send in their 
> reservations.  We tried to get the hotel to change this, but they would not 
> budge.  This included their rejection of accepting reservations by phone.

I sent them an encrypted PDF by email, and then called Hotel Concorde to give 
Carole Masson the password by phone. I was told that I could neither speak with 
Carole Masson nor leave a message for her. So right now the hotel has an 
encrypted PDF from me which they cannot view.

BTW, the Hotel Concorde phone number given at 
 is wrong.

Web page says: +33 1 40 68 50 50
Actual number:  +33 1 40 68 50 68

Stuart Cheshire

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Re: [IAOC] primary Paris hotel booking

[Bob Hinden]

Wes,

I think everyone on the IAOC was surprised when we first heard that the meeting 
hotel insisted that people can only use fax or email to send in their 
reservations.  We tried to get the hotel to change this, but they would not 
budge.  This included their rejection of accepting reservations by phone.

Other nearby hotels were much more expensive, so this reservation method was 
reluctantly accepted.

You are, of course, free to book online but when I checked earlier today the 
rates were higher even without breakfast included  (but the cancelation policy 
less was severe).  Your tradeoff.  In this venue, the IETF will receive credit 
for your stay if you book on line (or through your corporate travel department).

It also most goes with out saying that there are also many other hotels in 
Paris at lower and higher rates.

Bob





On Jan 3, 2012, at 8:52 AM, George, Wes wrote:

> Happy New Year, it's time for our triannual hotel complaint thread.
> I hate to do it, but I think that there are people who haven't looked at this 
> yet, and I'm hoping that we can perhaps rectify it before the majority of 
> folks try to book:
> 
> "Instructions for making reservations at Hotel Concorde:
> Please fill out the reservations form and fax it directly to the hotel at: 
> +33 1 57 00 50 79 or email it to cmas...@concorde-hotels.com"
> 
> It's 2012, but the IETF and this hotel chain expects us to book reservations 
> at the main conference hotel by (international) FAX or by *emailing* a form 
> which includes a credit card number so that the hotel can hold the room and 
> implement its relatively bizarre prepay/anti-cancellation policy.
> Would it be trolling to ask whether anyone verified that "cmasson" has 
> support for PGP encrypted-email and a proper method of securely storing (and 
> then destroying after use) the several hundred credit card numbers they are 
> about to receive?
> 
> What person or rate code should we ask for when booking our rooms over the 
> phone? (hey if I'm going old school, I'm doing it all the way!) Though, given 
> the above, I'm relatively worried that my credit card number will simply end 
> up on an unprotected spreadsheet on a PC somewhere in their office even if I 
> call to book.
> 
> More practically, the hotel blocks at the primary hotel typically fill up 
> quite fast once registration is opened, especially since the overflow hotel 
> is actually more expensive than the primary. Does the hotel fax/call us back 
> to tell us that they have no more rooms available for our requested dates, or 
> is the block open-ended such that they will keep selling rooms in it until 
> the cutoff regardless of the number?
> 
> Evidently "ability to book group rate rooms online" is something that should 
> be added to our list of hotel requirements. I'm stunned that it's not there 
> already.
> 
> Wes George
> 
> 
> 
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> copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for 
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not 
> the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any 
> dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the 
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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Donald Eastlake]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Andy Bierman  wrote:
> On 01/03/2012 08:52 AM, George, Wes wrote:
>>
>> Happy New Year, it's time for our triannual hotel complaint thread.
>> I hate to do it, but I think that there are people who haven't looked at
>> this yet, and I'm hoping that we can perhaps rectify it before the majority
>> of folks try to book:
>>
>>  "Instructions for making reservations at Hotel Concorde:
>> Please fill out the reservations form and fax it directly to the hotel at:
>> +33 1 57 00 50 79 or email it to cmas...@concorde-hotels.com"
>
> I crossed my fingers and clicked 'send' of the PDF with my credit card
> number in it.
> I didn't pay enough attention to the no-refund policy.  :-(
>
> I emailed my reservation on 12/22 and got a confirmation email on 12/26.
> So far, my credit card has not been charged anything.
>
> I think there should always be a full-refund cut-off date for the IETF
> hotel, even if
> it is 2 months in advance.  I thought the cut-off was 15 days, but that is
> just
> for 2 more nights billed in advance, not the first night.

Actually, that's unclear. I've read the form several times. It says
you lose any non-refudable deposit. And it says the two-day charge is
non-refundable. But it never says that the initial one-day charge is
non-refundable...

Thanks,
Donald
=
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
 d3e...@gmail.com

> Andy
>
>
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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Randy Bush]

http://franceforrent.com/
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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Eric Burger]

I do not know why hotels will not put it into a contract; believe me we try.  I 
call this the double-secret discount.  It would be nice if the hotels gave us 
Most Favored Nation status, but since they do not, and no hotel has, this is 
the next best thing.

On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> On 2012-01-04 10:03, John C Klensin wrote:
>> 
>> --On Tuesday, January 03, 2012 15:54 -0500 Eric Burger
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Actually (s), the IETF *does* get credit for rooms sold.
>>> We reconcile the attendee list with hotel guests. Go for it.
>> 
>> In a way, that is really too bad.  If people find the
>> cancellation or other) policies problematic enough to actually
>> change their behavior (as distinct from whining), it would be
>> good for the IAOC to get that message in a way that was clear
>> and couldn't be avoided.  If you don't incur a penalty for
>> failure to fill a block and/or can't really tell "paid a higher
>> rate to get a better policy" from "reserved after the block was
>> full or past the deadline", then there are few, if any,
>> incentives for telling a hotel that these sort of policies won't
>> do.
> 
> There's a third case, "paid a lower rate than the conference rate"
> (usually due to a smart corporate travel agent). I've never
> understood why conferences don't get a corporate-equivalent rate.
> 
>   Brian
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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Brian E Carpenter]

On 2012-01-04 10:03, John C Klensin wrote:
> 
> --On Tuesday, January 03, 2012 15:54 -0500 Eric Burger
>  wrote:
> 
>> Actually (s), the IETF *does* get credit for rooms sold.
>> We reconcile the attendee list with hotel guests. Go for it.
> 
> In a way, that is really too bad.  If people find the
> cancellation or other) policies problematic enough to actually
> change their behavior (as distinct from whining), it would be
> good for the IAOC to get that message in a way that was clear
> and couldn't be avoided.  If you don't incur a penalty for
> failure to fill a block and/or can't really tell "paid a higher
> rate to get a better policy" from "reserved after the block was
> full or past the deadline", then there are few, if any,
> incentives for telling a hotel that these sort of policies won't
> do.

There's a third case, "paid a lower rate than the conference rate"
(usually due to a smart corporate travel agent). I've never
understood why conferences don't get a corporate-equivalent rate.

   Brian
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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[John C Klensin]

--On Tuesday, January 03, 2012 15:54 -0500 Eric Burger
 wrote:

> Actually (s), the IETF *does* get credit for rooms sold.
> We reconcile the attendee list with hotel guests. Go for it.

In a way, that is really too bad.  If people find the
cancellation or other) policies problematic enough to actually
change their behavior (as distinct from whining), it would be
good for the IAOC to get that message in a way that was clear
and couldn't be avoided.  If you don't incur a penalty for
failure to fill a block and/or can't really tell "paid a higher
rate to get a better policy" from "reserved after the block was
full or past the deadline", then there are few, if any,
incentives for telling a hotel that these sort of policies won't
do.

john

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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Andy Bierman]

On 01/03/2012 08:52 AM, George, Wes wrote:

Happy New Year, it's time for our triannual hotel complaint thread.
I hate to do it, but I think that there are people who haven't looked at this 
yet, and I'm hoping that we can perhaps rectify it before the majority of folks 
try to book:

  "Instructions for making reservations at Hotel Concorde:
Please fill out the reservations form and fax it directly to the hotel at: +33 1 57 
00 50 79 or email it to cmas...@concorde-hotels.com"


I crossed my fingers and clicked 'send' of the PDF with my credit card number 
in it.
I didn't pay enough attention to the no-refund policy.  :-(

I emailed my reservation on 12/22 and got a confirmation email on 12/26.
So far, my credit card has not been charged anything.

I think there should always be a full-refund cut-off date for the IETF hotel, 
even if
it is 2 months in advance.  I thought the cut-off was 15 days, but that is just
for 2 more nights billed in advance, not the first night.


Andy

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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Eric Burger]

Actually (s), the IETF *does* get credit for rooms sold. We reconcile the 
attendee list with hotel guests. Go for it.

On Jan 3, 2012, at 2:48 PM, Michael StJohns wrote:

> The pre-pay is pretty annoying.  And the "if you cancel too late, we'll take 
> all your money" *really* annoys me.  So much so that I booked on-line, direct 
> with the hotel at a higher rate for a nicer room, but still better than the 
> rate for the alternate hotel.  And no-prepay and cancel by 4pm the arrival 
> day or pay one day's room.
> 
> I hate doing it this way - the IETF doesn't get any credit for rooms sold.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> At 01:57 PM 1/3/2012, Thomas Nadeau wrote:
> 
>>   I agree. In addition to that the pre-pay situation can be a major PITA 
>> for expensing purposes.  We should add "normal" booking procedures to the 
>> hotel requirements list as well.
>> 
>>   --Tom
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 3, 2012, at 11:52 AM, George, Wes wrote:
>> 
>>> Happy New Year, it's time for our triannual hotel complaint thread.
>>> I hate to do it, but I think that there are people who haven't looked at 
>>> this yet, and I'm hoping that we can perhaps rectify it before the majority 
>>> of folks try to book:
>>> 
>>> "Instructions for making reservations at Hotel Concorde:
>>> Please fill out the reservations form and fax it directly to the hotel at: 
>>> +33 1 57 00 50 79 or email it to cmas...@concorde-hotels.com"
>>> 
>>> It's 2012, but the IETF and this hotel chain expects us to book 
>>> reservations at the main conference hotel by (international) FAX or by 
>>> *emailing* a form which includes a credit card number so that the hotel can 
>>> hold the room and implement its relatively bizarre prepay/anti-cancellation 
>>> policy.
>>> Would it be trolling to ask whether anyone verified that "cmasson" has 
>>> support for PGP encrypted-email and a proper method of securely storing 
>>> (and then destroying after use) the several hundred credit card numbers 
>>> they are about to receive?
>>> 
>>> What person or rate code should we ask for when booking our rooms over the 
>>> phone? (hey if I'm going old school, I'm doing it all the way!) Though, 
>>> given the above, I'm relatively worried that my credit card number will 
>>> simply end up on an unprotected spreadsheet on a PC somewhere in their 
>>> office even if I call to book.
>>> 
>>> More practically, the hotel blocks at the primary hotel typically fill up 
>>> quite fast once registration is opened, especially since the overflow hotel 
>>> is actually more expensive than the primary. Does the hotel fax/call us 
>>> back to tell us that they have no more rooms available for our requested 
>>> dates, or is the block open-ended such that they will keep selling rooms in 
>>> it until the cutoff regardless of the number?
>>> 
>>> Evidently "ability to book group rate rooms online" is something that 
>>> should be added to our list of hotel requirements. I'm stunned that it's 
>>> not there already.
>>> 
>>> Wes George
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable 
>>> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to 
>>> copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely 
>>> for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you 
>>> are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that 
>>> any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to 
>>> the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and 
>>> may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify 
>>> the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of 
>>> this E-mail and any printout.
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>> 
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RE: primary Paris hotel booking

[Adrian Farrel]

> One might even speculate that, if a
> sufficiently large number of people refused to accept the Hotel
> Concorde's terms and conditions (booking policies, cancellation
> policies, or something else) and "voted" by refusing to book
> there, the IAOC might get the message far more clearly than any
> number of requests or complaints about what they should
> negotiate.

Much though it pains me to agree with John so early in the year and risk the
precedent...

+1

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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Michael StJohns]

The pre-pay is pretty annoying.  And the "if you cancel too late, we'll take 
all your money" *really* annoys me.  So much so that I booked on-line, direct 
with the hotel at a higher rate for a nicer room, but still better than the 
rate for the alternate hotel.  And no-prepay and cancel by 4pm the arrival day 
or pay one day's room.

I hate doing it this way - the IETF doesn't get any credit for rooms sold.

Mike



At 01:57 PM 1/3/2012, Thomas Nadeau wrote:

>I agree. In addition to that the pre-pay situation can be a major PITA 
> for expensing purposes.  We should add "normal" booking procedures to the 
> hotel requirements list as well.
>
>--Tom
>
>
>On Jan 3, 2012, at 11:52 AM, George, Wes wrote:
>
>> Happy New Year, it's time for our triannual hotel complaint thread.
>> I hate to do it, but I think that there are people who haven't looked at 
>> this yet, and I'm hoping that we can perhaps rectify it before the majority 
>> of folks try to book:
>> 
>> "Instructions for making reservations at Hotel Concorde:
>> Please fill out the reservations form and fax it directly to the hotel at: 
>> +33 1 57 00 50 79 or email it to cmas...@concorde-hotels.com"
>> 
>> It's 2012, but the IETF and this hotel chain expects us to book reservations 
>> at the main conference hotel by (international) FAX or by *emailing* a form 
>> which includes a credit card number so that the hotel can hold the room and 
>> implement its relatively bizarre prepay/anti-cancellation policy.
>> Would it be trolling to ask whether anyone verified that "cmasson" has 
>> support for PGP encrypted-email and a proper method of securely storing (and 
>> then destroying after use) the several hundred credit card numbers they are 
>> about to receive?
>> 
>> What person or rate code should we ask for when booking our rooms over the 
>> phone? (hey if I'm going old school, I'm doing it all the way!) Though, 
>> given the above, I'm relatively worried that my credit card number will 
>> simply end up on an unprotected spreadsheet on a PC somewhere in their 
>> office even if I call to book.
>> 
>> More practically, the hotel blocks at the primary hotel typically fill up 
>> quite fast once registration is opened, especially since the overflow hotel 
>> is actually more expensive than the primary. Does the hotel fax/call us back 
>> to tell us that they have no more rooms available for our requested dates, 
>> or is the block open-ended such that they will keep selling rooms in it 
>> until the cutoff regardless of the number?
>> 
>> Evidently "ability to book group rate rooms online" is something that should 
>> be added to our list of hotel requirements. I'm stunned that it's not there 
>> already.
>> 
>> Wes George
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable 
>> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to 
>> copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for 
>> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not 
>> the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any 
>> dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the 
>> contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be 
>> unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the 
>> sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this 
>> E-mail and any printout.
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>
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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[John C Klensin]

--On Tuesday, January 03, 2012 13:57 -0500 Thomas Nadeau
 wrote:

>...
>   I agree. In addition to that the pre-pay situation can be a
> major PITA for expensing purposes.  We should add "normal"
> booking procedures to the hotel requirements list as well.

It is a little worse than "merely" a PITA.  I've worked for
companies who would absolutely forbid making a reservation with
a non-refundable deposit more than two months in advance of a
meeting unless I was personally willing to assume the risk...
and who might treat such a one-day fee as non-reimbursable even
if I did stay in the hotel.

The good news about Paris is that there is a large supply of
hotels in a wide range of qualities and prices and the subway
system is comprehensible and works very well.I sort of hate
to suggest this, but, if the conditions and/or rates for the
IETF-designated hotels don't seem reasonable, go elsewhere (just
remember that no one will listen if you don't like the hotel
Internet service).One might even speculate that, if a
sufficiently large number of people refused to accept the Hotel
Concorde's terms and conditions (booking policies, cancellation
policies, or something else) and "voted" by refusing to book
there, the IAOC might get the message far more clearly than any
number of requests or complaints about what they should
negotiate.   

john

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RE: primary Paris hotel booking

[Eric Osborne (eosborne)]

> What person or rate code should we ask for when booking our rooms over
> the phone? (hey if I'm going old school, I'm doing it all the way!)


The pdf has a reference number on it.




eric

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Re: primary Paris hotel booking

[Thomas Nadeau]

I agree. In addition to that the pre-pay situation can be a major PITA 
for expensing purposes.  We should add "normal" booking procedures to the hotel 
requirements list as well.

--Tom


On Jan 3, 2012, at 11:52 AM, George, Wes wrote:

> Happy New Year, it's time for our triannual hotel complaint thread.
> I hate to do it, but I think that there are people who haven't looked at this 
> yet, and I'm hoping that we can perhaps rectify it before the majority of 
> folks try to book:
> 
> "Instructions for making reservations at Hotel Concorde:
> Please fill out the reservations form and fax it directly to the hotel at: 
> +33 1 57 00 50 79 or email it to cmas...@concorde-hotels.com"
> 
> It's 2012, but the IETF and this hotel chain expects us to book reservations 
> at the main conference hotel by (international) FAX or by *emailing* a form 
> which includes a credit card number so that the hotel can hold the room and 
> implement its relatively bizarre prepay/anti-cancellation policy.
> Would it be trolling to ask whether anyone verified that "cmasson" has 
> support for PGP encrypted-email and a proper method of securely storing (and 
> then destroying after use) the several hundred credit card numbers they are 
> about to receive?
> 
> What person or rate code should we ask for when booking our rooms over the 
> phone? (hey if I'm going old school, I'm doing it all the way!) Though, given 
> the above, I'm relatively worried that my credit card number will simply end 
> up on an unprotected spreadsheet on a PC somewhere in their office even if I 
> call to book.
> 
> More practically, the hotel blocks at the primary hotel typically fill up 
> quite fast once registration is opened, especially since the overflow hotel 
> is actually more expensive than the primary. Does the hotel fax/call us back 
> to tell us that they have no more rooms available for our requested dates, or 
> is the block open-ended such that they will keep selling rooms in it until 
> the cutoff regardless of the number?
> 
> Evidently "ability to book group rate rooms online" is something that should 
> be added to our list of hotel requirements. I'm stunned that it's not there 
> already.
> 
> Wes George
> 
> 
> 
> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable 
> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to 
> copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for 
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not 
> the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any 
> dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the 
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> immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail 
> and any printout.
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primary Paris hotel booking

[George, Wes]

Happy New Year, it's time for our triannual hotel complaint thread.
I hate to do it, but I think that there are people who haven't looked at this 
yet, and I'm hoping that we can perhaps rectify it before the majority of folks 
try to book:

 "Instructions for making reservations at Hotel Concorde:
Please fill out the reservations form and fax it directly to the hotel at: +33 
1 57 00 50 79 or email it to cmas...@concorde-hotels.com"

It's 2012, but the IETF and this hotel chain expects us to book reservations at 
the main conference hotel by (international) FAX or by *emailing* a form which 
includes a credit card number so that the hotel can hold the room and implement 
its relatively bizarre prepay/anti-cancellation policy.
Would it be trolling to ask whether anyone verified that "cmasson" has support 
for PGP encrypted-email and a proper method of securely storing (and then 
destroying after use) the several hundred credit card numbers they are about to 
receive?

What person or rate code should we ask for when booking our rooms over the 
phone? (hey if I'm going old school, I'm doing it all the way!) Though, given 
the above, I'm relatively worried that my credit card number will simply end up 
on an unprotected spreadsheet on a PC somewhere in their office even if I call 
to book.

More practically, the hotel blocks at the primary hotel typically fill up quite 
fast once registration is opened, especially since the overflow hotel is 
actually more expensive than the primary. Does the hotel fax/call us back to 
tell us that they have no more rooms available for our requested dates, or is 
the block open-ended such that they will keep selling rooms in it until the 
cutoff regardless of the number?

Evidently "ability to book group rate rooms online" is something that should be 
added to our list of hotel requirements. I'm stunned that it's not there 
already.

Wes George



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