Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Akarsh Simha
> > Will this fit into your requirements - http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/ ?
> 
> where do the documents live?

For Emacs folks, there is some collaborative editing .el that works
over D-Bus.

Not tried it, though.

Regards
Akarsh
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Srikanth Lakshmanan
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
wrote:

> hi,
>
> can anyone suggest collaborative authoring software? A person should be
> able
> to upload and edit a document, and others may view, give comments inline,
> or
> edit depending on permissions.
> --

Is this what you require -- open source document circulation and workflow
system.
http://www.cuteflow.org/ . Runs on LAMP.

-- 
Regards
Srikanth.L
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Parthan SR

Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

On Thursday 08 Jan 2009 1:10:56 pm Parthan SR wrote:
  

hi,

can anyone suggest collaborative authoring software? A person should be
able to upload and edit a document, and others may view, give comments
inline, or edit depending on permissions.
 
  

Will this fit into your requirements - http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/ ?



where do the documents live?

  
During editing the document lives in the server (i.e. it needs to opened 
by a user who becomes the owner of the document). Whoever serves the 
document can make it visible only to certain users and share it with 
them. The users in turn can edit it (appears in different colors for 
different users while editing) and even save a local copy of it at the 
end. IIRC, the owner can lock the document in between if he wants it to 
make it not editable by others.


--
---
With Regards,

Parthan "technofreak"
  2FF01026
 http://blog.technofreak.in

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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Thursday 08 Jan 2009 2:06:31 pm Parthan SR wrote:
> > where do the documents live?
> >
> >  
>
> During editing the document lives in the server (i.e. it needs to opened
> by a user who becomes the owner of the document). Whoever serves the
> document can make it visible only to certain users and share it with
> them. The users in turn can edit it (appears in different colors for
> different users while editing) and even save a local copy of it at the
> end. IIRC, the owner can lock the document in between if he wants it to
> make it not editable by others.

problem is that this is for ubernoobs, mostly doze users - people who are 
incapable of editing a wiki. Gobby would have to be installed on their 
machines. They need to be

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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Thursday 08 Jan 2009 2:56:54 pm Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> > end. IIRC, the owner can lock the document in between if he wants it to
> > make it not editable by others.
>
> problem is that this is for ubernoobs, mostly doze users - people who are
> incapable of editing a wiki. Gobby would have to be installed on their
> machines. They need to be

able to use IE for it

-- 
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KG
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Karanbir Singh

Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

hi,

can anyone suggest collaborative authoring software? A person should be able 
to upload and edit a document, and others may view, give comments inline, or 
edit depending on permissions.


OpenOffice with 'track changes' and use the footnotes, sidenotes and 
commenting features. And you can have the docs hosted in svn backed dav 
or just plain webdav if you dont want to do anything more complex.


--
Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : 2522...@icq
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Re: [Ilugc] Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Shahrukh Khan
> Well, it looks like we aren't going anywhere with this thread. Why don't
> we end it here? If the OP is seriously interested and needs help, let
> him present himself for a LUG meet and get the necessary help.


When is the next LUG meeting and please give me the exact location of
this meeting.
>
> --
> ---
> With Regards,
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[Ilugc] First ILUGC Meet of 2009 on Jan 10

2009-01-08 Thread Shrinivasan T
For Shahrukh Khan and all.

We, chennai LUG people meet regularly at IIT Madras
on every second saturday on 3.00 pm to 6.00 pm

Venue: ADI-TeNeT Seminar Hall,
  Room No: CSD 320,
  Electrical Science Block,
  IIT-Madras.

Map: http://www.chennailug.org/tenet

This month We meet January 10, 2009

We can share our knowledge and thoughts on Free and Open Source Software.

Anyone can give talks on their favorite topic.

All are welcome.

-- 
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T.Shrinivasan


My experiences with Linux are here
http://goinggnu.wordpress.com

For Free and Open Source Jobs
http://fossjobs.wordpress.com
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Re: [Ilugc] Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Anand Muthu
> I am a final year student and i am doing a project in open source using
> LAMP..
Are you really a Final year student ?  You are spaming ILUGC mailing list.


@ILUGC Moderator,
please do remove this spam mailer. Do we really need such a "innocent"
developer to OSS world?
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Re: [Ilugc] Re: Network conection in virtualbox

2009-01-08 Thread Arun Khan
On Thursday 08 Jan 2009, Shrinivasan T wrote:


> I enables the network as NAT for the virtual guest.
>
> I set up IP address as below
>
> Host : 192.168.1.1
> Guest : 192.168.1.2
> Netmask for both : 255.255.255.0
>
> But cannot ping each other.
> It shows "host not reachable" error.
>
> What setting I missed?

Have you installed the bridge utility package?  Also please read up the 
Virtual Box docs.  It covers the scenario you are trying to setup.

HTH
-- 
Arun Khan

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Re: [Ilugc] Re: Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Kumar Appaiah
On Thu, Jan 08, 2009 at 10:09:37AM +0530, Shahrukh Khan wrote:
> > > I also have the same feeling. This is someone who know FOSS very well.
> > > Because a novice will never try to reply once he get bashed.
> >
> > please avoid bottom posting
> 
> 
> I was asked to avoid top posting.

What he means is to not just bottom-post blindly, but to remove
unneeded parts while doing so. For example, in this reply, I have
removed the ILUGC footer (about unsubscribing etc.) since I know it'll
be added again anyway, and it bears no relevance to the discussion.

HTH (Hope this helps).

Kumar
-- 
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Re: [Ilugc] Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Sri Ramadoss M
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Anand Muthu  wrote:

> @ILUGC Moderator,
> please do remove this spam mailer. Do we really need such a "innocent"
> developer to OSS world?
>


users can be innocent..

are developers alone permitted to the OSS world?

-- 
Regards,

Sri Ramadoss M
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Re: [Ilugc] Re: Network conection in virtualbox

2009-01-08 Thread Mehul Ved
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 1:29 AM, Shrinivasan T  wrote:
> Sorry Friends.  Messed with keyboard.
>
> here is the full question.
>
> --
> Hi,
>
> I want to teach networking in linux to friends.
>
> As I have a single machine, I Installed Virtual Box and installed
> Ubuntu 8.10 on it.
>
> Host is also ubuntu, but 8.04
>
> I enables the network as NAT for the virtual guest.
>
> I set up IP address as below
>
> Host : 192.168.1.1
> Guest : 192.168.1.2
> Netmask for both : 255.255.255.0
>
> But cannot ping each other.
> It shows "host not reachable" error.
>
> What setting I missed?

Briding?
Here's what I did to enable it in arch linux http://techlog.mehulved.com/?p=50

-- 

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Livingston I. Presume. Q: What's...
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Re: [Ilugc] Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Mano
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Anand Muthu  wrote:
>> I am a final year student and i am doing a project in open source using
>> LAMP..
> Are you really a Final year student ?  You are spaming ILUGC mailing list.
>
>
> @ILUGC Moderator,
> please do remove this spam mailer. Do we really need such a "innocent"
> developer to OSS world?

We need all kinds...

One of the reasons for this list to exist is to hand hold newbies to
the oss world. Such superior-than-thou attitude will only scare them
out!

mano
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Re: [Ilugc] Re: Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Shahrukh Khan
What he means is to not just bottom-post blindly, but to remove
> unneeded parts while doing so.



> For example, in this reply,



> I have removed the ILUGC footer (about unsubscribing etc.) since I know
> it'll
> be added again anyway,



> and it bears no relevance to the discussion.
>
> Ya it helped Kumar.
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Re: [Ilugc] Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Shahrukh Khan
We need all kinds...
>
> One of the reasons for this list to exist is to hand hold newbies to
> the oss world.



> Such superior-than-thou attitude will only scare them
> out!
>

Thank you for such motivating words

>
>
>
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Re: [Ilugc] Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Srinivasan R
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Shahrukh Khan  wrote:
> When is the next LUG meeting and please give me the exact location of
> this meeting.
>>

Check out http://chennailug.org/tenet for the location of the meet in IIT
We all meet every second saturday of the month at 3pm.

You don't have to do any special homework other than to have a clear
understanding of what your project is about and how you have thought
of implementing it. You can speak up after the talks are over and
people will pitch in and give suggestions and help you out.

And, please don't thank me for giving this info.

-- 
Srinivasan R
http://fslog.com - News, tutorial, tips and tricks about Free and open
source software
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Re: [Ilugc] Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Venkatraman S
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Srinivasan R  wrote:

>
> Check out http://chennailug.org/tenet for the location of the meet in IIT
> We all meet every second saturday of the month at 3pm.
>
>
Flaws:
# What  IIT stands for?
# What 'pm' stands for?
# What is that thing in http how do i see it? Why that alone is blue on
my screen? IS it blue-something?
# Saturday-Which calendar?


And, please don't thank me for giving this info.
>

# Sorry, but moma says that we should thank people for their help :D

-V-
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Re: [Ilugc] Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Srinivasan R
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Venkatraman S  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Srinivasan R  wrote:
>
>>
>> Check out http://chennailug.org/tenet for the location of the meet in IIT
>> We all meet every second saturday of the month at 3pm.
>>
>>
> Flaws:
> # What  IIT stands for?
> # What 'pm' stands for?
> # What is that thing in http how do i see it? Why that alone is blue on
> my screen? IS it blue-something?
> # Saturday-Which calendar?
>

Why dont we give him the benefit of doubt and wait for 2 more days for
him to turn up for the meeting before coming to the conclusion that he
is a prankster? I know classmates (i finished college 1.5 years ago)
who still don't know how to read mail conversations.

>
> And, please don't thank me for giving this info.
>
> # Sorry, but moma says that we should thank people for their help :D
>

If he really does reply this then he surely isn't a college student.
He is probably a 4th standard girl who likes sharukhan very much.


-- 
Srinivasan R
http://fslog.com - News, tutorial, tips and tricks about Free and open
source software
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Raja Subramanian
On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
 wrote:
> problem is that this is for ubernoobs, mostly doze users - people who are
> incapable of editing a wiki.

If your users are connected to the internet, try Google Docs.
Not FOSS, and you lose control of your data to Google, but it
sure does everything you're asking.

- Raja
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Praveen Arimbrathodiyil

On Wednesday 07 January 2009 11:26 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

hi,

can anyone suggest collaborative authoring software? A person should be able
to upload and edit a document, and others may view, give comments inline, or
edit depending on permissions.
   

You can try Alfresco. I have not used it but heard good things about it.
http://www.alfresco.com/products/networks/compare/

- Praveen
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Re: [Ilugc] First ILUGC Meet of 2009 on Jan 10

2009-01-08 Thread Raman.P
Dear Luggies

Owing to some unforeseen circumstances this month's lug meet is cancelled.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

We will meet again on Second Saturday of February.

Raman.P


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Re: [Ilugc] First ILUGC Meet of 2009 on Jan 10

2009-01-08 Thread Srinivasan R
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Raman.P  wrote:
>
> Owing to some unforeseen circumstances this month's lug meet is cancelled.
>

Ah, There goes the chance to meet Sharuhkhan


-- 
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source software
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Friday 09 Jan 2009 5:39:22 am Praveen Arimbrathodiyil wrote:
> > can anyone suggest collaborative authoring software? A person should be
> > able to upload and edit a document, and others may view, give comments
> > inline, or edit depending on permissions.
> >    
>
> You can try Alfresco. I have not used it but heard good things about it.
> http://www.alfresco.com/products/networks/compare/

went to the site. Wanted to look at the install docs - they wanted me to 
register. Registered. Now it looks something like google docs - a free online 
thingie.

-- 
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
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Re: [Ilugc] First ILUGC Meet of 2009 on Jan 10

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Thursday 08 Jan 2009 5:10:56 pm Shrinivasan T wrote:
> This month We meet January 10, 2009

it has just been cancelled

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Re: [Ilugc] Re: Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Thursday 08 Jan 2009 7:31:52 pm Kumar Appaiah wrote:
> > > please avoid bottom posting
> >
> > I was asked to avoid top posting.
>
> What he means is to not just bottom-post blindly, but to remove
> unneeded parts while doing so. For example, in this reply, I have
> removed the ILUGC footer (about unsubscribing etc.) since I know it'll
> be added again anyway, and it bears no relevance to the discussion.

both top posting and bottom posting are the same - one is posting on top and 
leaving the whole message underneath, which is a waste of bandwidth and gives 
no indication of the part of the post being replied to. The second is doing 
the same thing at the bottom, leaving the whole message above, which is a 
waste of bandwidth and gives no indication of the part of the post being 
replied to. Correct way is to trim the post, quote the relevant section and 
post below this. This is also known as interleaved posting. It is sometimes 
difficult to do as it requires some work to select what should be quoted and 
what should be deleted. It is also painful to do using web mail. But we are 
human beings, not buffaloes, so we take pains to drive on the correct side of 
the road, respect oneways, stop at redlights instead of wandering where we 
please and disrupting traffic.

-- 
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Thursday 08 Jan 2009 10:22:33 pm Raja Subramanian wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
>
>  wrote:
> > problem is that this is for ubernoobs, mostly doze users - people who are
> > incapable of editing a wiki.
>
> If your users are connected to the internet, try Google Docs.
> Not FOSS, and you lose control of your data to Google, but it
> sure does everything you're asking.

suggested it - got my ears burnt off - 'you mean you expect 30 guys each to 
join and setup google docs?' - And invite people and manage their 
permissions???'

I am planning to go with plone

-- 
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http://lawgon.livejournal.com
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Re: [Ilugc] Re: Network conection in virtualbox

2009-01-08 Thread Anu-Linux
Hi all,


> Have you installed the bridge utility package?  Also please read up the
> Virtual Box docs.  It covers the scenario you are trying to setup.
>
> HTH
> --
> Arun Khan
>

You don't have to use bridging any more with the new version of VB (2.1.0).
(not for this purpose). The older versions yes, you have to create a bridge
and also there are two scripts to put in at the start and end of guest. Use
the new version. Less issues. :-) Adding guest additions will give a smooth
functioning to the guest as one mentioned earlier.

cheers!


-- 
දසුන්ප්‍රිය අනුරාධ.
D. AnuradhA
Step to the future with FOSS!

My Blog : http://blog.mihikatha.net/
සිංහළ blog සටහන්: http://anuradha-life.blogspot.com/
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[Ilugc] Traning

2009-01-08 Thread nirupama rout
Hello all

We are conducting a training program on Open source technologies.We need some 
resource persons for Qt,gtk and python programming.Is anybody willing to train 
the people.Please drop a mail to my id so that i can give further details

Thank you
Regars 
Nirupama Nayana Rout 




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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Raja Subramanian
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves
 wrote:
> suggested it - got my ears burnt off - 'you mean you expect 30 guys each to
> join and setup google docs?' - And invite people and manage their
> permissions???'

Surely, every system requires people to join and someone to admin
permissions/invites right?  What's to setup in Google Docs -- just sign
in to Gmail, and go to docs.google.com and start creating content.


> I am planning to go with plone

Good choice.

- Raja
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Friday 09 Jan 2009 11:30:42 am Raja Subramanian wrote:
> > suggested it - got my ears burnt off - 'you mean you expect 30 guys each
> > to join and setup google docs?' - And invite people and manage
> > their permissions???'
>
> Surely, every system requires people to join and someone to admin
> permissions/invites right?  What's to setup in Google Docs -- just sign
> in to Gmail, and go to docs.google.com and start creating content.


there is a big problem in India - and not only among older people. People will 
not contribute if they have to make the slightest effort. Unless they are 
totally spoonfed and hand held, they balk. Which is why, for example, 
contribution to wikipedia is so limited - we people would consult/quote 
wikipedia the whole time, but how many of us bother to correct a 
spelling/grammar mistake or some tiny factual error?


-- 
regards
KG
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Re: [Ilugc] Re: Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread ம. ஸ்ரீ ராமதாஸ்|Sri Ramadoss M
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves
wrote:

> On Thursday 08 Jan 2009 7:31:52 pm Kumar Appaiah wrote:
> > > > please avoid bottom posting
> > >
> > > I was asked to avoid top posting.
> >
> > What he means is to not just bottom-post blindly, but to remove
> > unneeded parts while doing so. For example, in this reply, I have
> > removed the ILUGC footer (about unsubscribing etc.) since I know it'll
> > be added again anyway, and it bears no relevance to the discussion.
>
> both top posting and bottom posting are the same - one is posting on top
> and
> leaving the whole message underneath, which is a waste of bandwidth and
> gives
> no indication of the part of the post being replied to. The second is doing
> the same thing at the bottom, leaving the whole message above, which is a
> waste of bandwidth and gives no indication of the part of the post being
> replied to.



இப்பெல்லாம் டாப் போஸ்டிங் பத்தின சேதி பார்த்தா இது ஓயாத மொக்கைன்னு தோணுது...
ம்ம்ம்.. :-)

-- 
ஆமாச்சு
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[Ilugc] Two Static Ip connection

2009-01-08 Thread mettur salem
Dear Sir,

 Thanks for all to support me with Helping hands even i am in the desert of
linux

 ok
   My office has windows server dns ,dhcp and proxy connection
  our if one static ip (internet say tata ),fails we need to manual
connect the other one
  in server I am not disturb this setup

  my office plan to move to fedora 9  i install fedora 9 with squid
proxy  have 2 lan cards
  They need without manual intervention incase of line failure we can
able to automatically
  use the internet in linux this is the scenario how can in install
successfully in linux fedora 9 pls help me
  to constant in my job
   one st ip is high bandwith another is low bandwith  both should
work  how ??? implement in linux???

wtih regards,
Mohan
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Rahul Sundaram

Raja Subramanian wrote:

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
 wrote:

problem is that this is for ubernoobs, mostly doze users - people who are
incapable of editing a wiki.


If your users are connected to the internet, try Google Docs.
Not FOSS, and you lose control of your data to Google, but it
sure does everything you're asking.


You can save copies of your data export in ODF format and you won't lose 
control.


Rahul
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Re: [Ilugc] Re: Project guidance

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Friday 09 Jan 2009 12:11:28 pm ம. ஸ்ரீ ராமதாஸ்|Sri Ramadoss M wrote:
> > waste of bandwidth and gives no indication of the part of the post being
> > replied to.
>
> இப்பெல்லாம் டாப் போஸ்டிங் பத்தின சேதி பார்த்தா இது ஓயாத மொக்கைன்னு
> தோணுது... ம்ம்ம்.. :-)

சென்தமிழை கைவிட்டீற்களா?

-- 
regards
KG
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Re: [Ilugc] Two Static Ip connection

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Friday 09 Jan 2009 12:19:04 pm mettur salem wrote:
>  Thanks for all to support me with Helping hands even i am in the desert of
> linux

s/desert/dessert/

-- 
regards
KG
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Friday 09 Jan 2009 12:23:05 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > Not FOSS, and you lose control of your data to Google, but it
> > sure does everything you're asking.
>
> You can save copies of your data export in ODF format and you won't lose
> control.

dream on ...

-- 
regards
KG
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Re: [Ilugc] Two Static Ip connection

2009-01-08 Thread Arun SAG
I could not really understand what's your problem is,Please try writing  it
clearly.It seem   that your office has two internet connections, you have
setup two servers windows and linux both installed with squid.Now you want
the employees to be automatically redirected to  use  one of the
connection which is active at that moment?


On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
wrote:

> On Friday 09 Jan 2009 12:19:04 pm mettur salem wrote:
> >  Thanks for all to support me with Helping hands even i am in the desert
> of
> > linux
>
> s/desert/dessert/
>
> --
> regards
> KG
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
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>



-- 
A computer is like air conditioning: it becomes useless when you open
windows.
<-Fighting 4 Freedom->
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Rahul Sundaram

Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

On Friday 09 Jan 2009 12:23:05 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote:

Not FOSS, and you lose control of your data to Google, but it
sure does everything you're asking.

You can save copies of your data export in ODF format and you won't lose
control.


dream on ...


That contains a distinct lack of useful information. Please fill in the 
blanks.


Rahul

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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Raja Subramanian
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Rahul Sundaram
 wrote:
> You can save copies of your data export in ODF format and you won't lose
> control.

Google has always ensured that user data is not locked into their
systems -- eg. pop access to GMail has been available from the
very start, GTalk is on XMPP and also federates with other Jabber
servers.  Similarly, ODF is also a good thing.

The main concern is over what Google is doing with your data when
it's sitting on their servers.  How will they use it to profile and target
you better for adsense revenues.

I guess this has gone far enough OT.

- Raja
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Friday 09 Jan 2009 1:06:24 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> > On Friday 09 Jan 2009 12:23:05 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> >>> Not FOSS, and you lose control of your data to Google, but it
> >>> sure does everything you're asking.
> >>
> >> You can save copies of your data export in ODF format and you won't lose
> >> control.
> >
> > dream on ...
>
> That contains a distinct lack of useful information. Please fill in the
> blanks.

if you think that by taking backups you have saved yourself from selling your 
soul to the big G - you are dreaming. 

-- 
regards
KG
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Re: [Ilugc] collaborative authoring software

2009-01-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Friday 09 Jan 2009 1:10:46 pm Raja Subramanian wrote:
> The main concern is over what Google is doing with your data when
> it's sitting on their servers.  How will they use it to profile and target
> you better for adsense revenues.
>
> I guess this has gone far enough OT.

not one bit OT - the control that the big G is starting to exert over the 
lives of some of us is starting to get a bit scary. Even I have some mailing 
lists under them - but that is not personal, but I am seriously concerned to 
see so many youngsters getting entrapped.

-- 
regards
KG
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