Re: [ilugd] Re: [ilugd-announce] ILUGD Monthly Meet 28th March, 2004

2004-03-20 Thread vivek khurana

--- LinuxLingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 [flamewar begins]
 (LL is wrong )
 argh! this is what i completely *hate* about ILUG-D.
 it is so
 newbie-unfriendly and aspires to be completely
 elitist!
 :-(
 Helloaa ilugd is not newbie unfriendly. I just dont
want the same presentation to take place over and over
again. I had already suggested a way (in form of
documents) to be distributed to newbies. If you can
come up with a better idea we will except it with all
the gratitude.

 This is not just a newbies group, there are equal
number of members in the group who know what linux is
and even several newbies know what GNU/Linux
philosophy is.
 Secondly LL-ji will you point me out how can ilugd
would suddenly become newbies friendly by having a
presentation on GNU/Linux philosophy and rest of
presentaions on securing linux boxes, a topic which
will pass over the head of newbies??
 If you remember we had already decided to conduct
newbies meet again and again at some time interval, so
you can't say ilugd is user unfriendly.
 To accomdate newbies in such a meet you need to give
introduction to why and how security, and not on
GNU/Linux philosophy!
 I belive if Raj speaks on GPG it will be a good
introduction on how and why to secure. 
 
 fire and brimstone man! did you know that india has
 a population of over
 1 billion people, and yet there are only 9 PCs per
 1,000 people here.
 all factors included, that means actual pc users are
 just 5% to 10% of
 our population. with gnulinux diffusion at probably
 1% to 2%, that means
 we are are a tiny droplet in a vast ocean. and we
 think we should
 further build walls around ourselves and tell the
 rest of our brethren
 to F.O. !
 
 grr!!!
 grrr!!! show such numbers to a bean counter not to
me..
 
 every single day, there will be atleast 10 newbies
 to gnulinux born in
 this country, and this number should hopefully touch
 100 a day.
 sarcastically speaking, i would be quite happy to
 see ilug-d shoot
 itself in the foot by alienating and brushing off
 newbies. and i know
 newbies won't speak up on this issue. they are
 usually quite terrified
 and nervous with the technojargon + flamewars +
 netequitte flames that
 they usually receive.

 See who is starting flame war this time. 
 
 so, every ilug-d meet must have a newbie
 orientation. for 15 minutes. a
 welcome to the community. a special gesture of
 encouragement and support
 on this precarious path of migration.

 See now you are turning away from your own words,
this kind of introduction is completely different from
he presentation of raj on introduction to gnu/linx
philosophy.
 
 AshLin, don't you agree?
 
 [flameware ends]
[Me hoping so]
 
 :-(
 LL
 
 
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Re: [ilugd] Re:MIlitary Grade Software

2004-03-20 Thread vivek khurana

--- abhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You know what ? Some of us while rather happy to
 attempt to help out, would
 rather not have you waste our time with popquizzes.
 So next time, do kindly label them as a pop-quiz
 instead of a query (Two
 queries clubbed in one).
 Sorry dear this was not a class test and i didnt knew
the answer before hand. i wrote it as first correct
answer because Narsingh handled the core issue of what
is military grade.
 Sorry again if this question wasted your precious
time. Why dont you do one thing dont answers to mails
that will save lot of your time.
 If you dont understand the meaning of my query i cant
help you. I was asking about military grade and ppl
were replying to me with military humor and names of
some organizations which do standardization but no one
was answering what those standards are. i had done
some search on this issue before posting and i knew
the names of the organization but i was (and still am)
unaware of the standards which have to be met.
 Flame me if you like to.

Regards
VK

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Re: [ilugd] Re: [ilugd-announce] ILUGD Monthly Meet 28th March, 2004

2004-03-20 Thread Sudev Barar
On Sat, 2004-03-20 at 12:21, LinuxLingam wrote:
 On Sat, 2004-03-20 at 09:18, vivek khurana wrote:
  --- Raj Shekhar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   There will always be newbies in every meet, so does
  it means introduction becomes a defato start up?? This
  intro is good in newbies meet, but i would go against
[SNIP]
 so, every ilug-d meet must have a newbie orientation. for 15 minutes. a
 welcome to the community. a special gesture of encouragement and support
 on this precarious path of migration.
[SNIP]

1. Right besides you in thoughts and deed.
Newbie meets and newbie intros and CD distributions at college seminars
should be a priority for any LUG.
2. How did I learn Linux (and still learning)? From peers who are
further down the road. How do I repay the community? By helping others
behind me. If all learned members pull away from this list who will be
left? All confused people migrating back to honey-trap arms of
$$$oftware.

I quite liked Raju's idea that join other lists too, existing in plenty.
Also there is restriction in organising other meets than the monthly
meet.
-- 
Sudev Barar

Learning Linux



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Re: [ilugd] Background download manager with web interface

2004-03-20 Thread Sudev Barar
On Sat, 2004-03-20 at 13:58, Ankur Rohatgi wrote:
 BTW today completes my first week of NO WINDOZE !!! It caused some pain
 but this time i stuck to it and kept going. Now most things operational
 and i am happy indeed :).
Welcome to the club...may hapiness be with you forever muft mukt and
mast.
-- 
Sudev Barar

Learning Linux



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[ilugd] relay domain

2004-03-20 Thread amitabh pandey
Hello,
   
i am using sendmail.

with regards
amitabh

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Re: [ilugd] Background download manager with web interface

2004-03-20 Thread Sharninder Singh
 
 Does anyone know if there is a download manager type of application
 with~ some kind of web/cli config tool ? I want to put my office
 bandwidth to use at night. Basically some app that sets up as a
 service and lets me add / check files on the web.

why not run a cron job with wget downloading the stuff. Btw, webmin has
a module which would allow you to do exactly what you want. I'm sure
there are other apps of this kind also available. If not, It would be
quite easy to write one in php/perl/whatever ...

HTH
Sharninder


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Re: [ilugd] Background download manager with web interface

2004-03-20 Thread vivek
On Sat, 2004-03-20 at 13:58, Ankur Rohatgi wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Does anyone know if there is a download manager type of application with
 ~ some kind of web/cli config tool ? I want to put my office bandwidth to
 use at night. Basically some app that sets up as a service and lets me
 add / check files on the web.
 I did search google but no luck finding anything there.

don't know about any such application, but what i do at my office is

in my home directory i create a script
### download.sh ###
cd /home/vivek
wget -c http://the/file/i/wish/to/download
###

that script is chmoded
   $ chmod 755 /home/vivek/download.sh

then, i open up my crontab
   $ crontab -e

specify the timings
   15 00 * * * /home/vivek/download.sh

after adding the cron entry i save it (ESC, :wq - vi commands).
that's all. so, this way download is started at 0015 Hrs.

yes, i can specify the date etc. in the crontab, but usually after
reaching office i remove that cron entry so the file is not downloaded
again and again every night at 0015 Hrs.

what yu can do is, create a simple php script which allows yu to enter
the URLs yu wish to download in the database (MySQL), and every night
that script is executed at a specific interval and download begins.

 BTW today completes my first week of NO WINDOZE !!! It caused some pain
 but this time i stuck to it and kept going. Now most things operational
 and i am happy indeed :).

excellent :-) i'm really happy for yu. in fact this was almost the same
thing i did, i removed windows from my machine and it was ONLY linux
(initially redhat then mandrake), and i stuck to it. i made up my mind
that everything i had to do was in linux only, so find out how things
work. and now, i'm a proud home linux desktop user :-)

-- 
\|||/
(o o)
 ooO-(_)-Ooo-
| vivek| GPG Key:|
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]| http://exain.net/vike   |
||
| Registered Linux User: #305493 |
 
   (  _  )
  _| | | |_
 (___| |___)



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Re: [ilugd] Re:MIlitary Grade Software

2004-03-20 Thread Abhi

From: vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Sorry dear this was not a class test and i didnt knew
 the answer before hand. i wrote it as first correct
 answer because Narsingh handled the core issue of what
 is military grade.

His reply was quite thorough, I will concede that. But he simply told you
that you were phrasing your question improperly. Not to mention he didn't
answer it with much details about whatever little standards used , if any
(which you claim to really have wanted as the answer).He explicitly said I
won't go into details of what constitutes military specifications and how
they are framed. I will also not discuss whether the Indian Military has got
any such specifications regarding software. Heaven only knows how you got
the correct answer when the other person is actually and explicitly
telling you he won't give you the details of the answer at all.

Question is that if you do not know the answer, and you have been asking the
wrong questions to begin with, how do you know what is the right or
wrong answer ? Especially in this partcular context one could only say
that his reply sounded like the first complete/adequate answer. Phrasing
is all important. Lacking that you will only serve to irk those who are only
trying to help you.

 were replying to me with military humor and names of
 some organizations which do standardization but no one
 was answering what those standards are. i had done

Because A) you never specified which military. B) Military grade software
for what fields/purpose ? C) you were informed that in USA it was done via a
standard certification and on adhoc basis in here and most of the other
countries(top brass as you phased it). There are little or no standards in
place here yet, the last time I checked(and having worked with the armed
forced maintaining their servers, I did ask them about it once). I provided
you with name of the standards used in US Some of the standards included in
COE are POSIX (1003.1  1003.2), X11, Motif, CDE, TCP/IP

Usually the armed forces here do not give out orders to the tune of those
placed by Us DoD, and hence cannot really force any of proprietary OS
developers(Novell/Microsoft/Sun) to modify their products to comply with
their guidelines(i.e. DoD insisting that the OS should be POSIX compliant).
As a relatively smaller(relatively only) buyer they simply have to choose
amongst what is available or try and roll their own. They can however insist
in the case of application development orders that RDBMS application must
run on oracle backend or be compliant to such and such standard but there
is no fixed policy on it. But quite frequently this will be done in-house,
I'd imagine, for security reasons.

Take your second query for example : Can anyone point me to fault tolerance
components of Linux kernel, if any exists. Or alternatively tell me how
faults are handled in linux kernel.

What kind of faults ? harddisk ? there is software RAID support in linux if
that is what you want to know. But that is the filesystem rather. The other
faults can be in memory, processor, network. Well in Linux kernel, illegal
access of kernel memory space by a user process will usually crash the user
process. Kernel memory remains intact. Period. If the RAM chip itself is
faulty it is usually the bios that informs you during booting(beep codes
remember?). Network faults ? You probably know the answer. Processor failure
? Am not sure about the standard kernel but I do recall NEC UK managing that
with a modified kernel. Then there is also clustering.

So basically what exactly are you asking ? did you make a little effort to
visit http://www.google.com ? Wouldn't you get an answer more easily and
authoritatively and on the linux-kernel list
(http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-kernel)?

Before posting a problem, atleast try to show you made an effort solving it
yourself.

 Also, can anyone tell me how much immune is Linux
Kernel to noises of environment.(how noises are
handled in linux system).

I have no idea what you are talking about here. What kind of noises ? data
noises ? What kind of data ? Isn't that rather upto the application in
question which is accessing the said data ? Why would kernel care ? Or do
you mean actual sounds ? What on earth would linux kernel have to do with
detection of whether you are having sonic boom explosions next to your
building ?

See? Totally ambiguous. Try and phrase your questions better.



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Re: [ilugd] Re:MIlitary Grade Software

2004-03-20 Thread vivek khurana

I am dropping this thread, through out the discussion
i had only received naive replies,  ppl replying not
clear about concepts themselves and blaming me for not
framing the question properly.
 Any way i got my answer from another mailing
list(non-kernel) that too without refrasing my
questions.
 This list seems to be a bad place to ask questions on
technical standards.

regards
VK



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[ilugd] Which ISP?

2004-03-20 Thread linux romeo
Hi All,
   Lately I have been searching  for ISP that
(existing gives me 3rd grade service + no Linux
client)

1.) Supports Linux Client
2.) High Uptime
3.) Reasonable Cost

I looking at following options
1) DIAS for BSNL (Rs 800)
2) Huch or airtel (Rs 600)
3)Reliance (but I have no CDMA handset :-( )

I hope many of u might have gone same dilemma as I
...pl share ur experiences and kindly suggest

luv
Romeo 


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RE: [ilugd] Which ISP?

2004-03-20 Thread Akshay Lamba
Hi All,
   Lately I have been searching  for ISP that
(existing gives me 3rd grade service + no Linux
client)

1.) Supports Linux Client
2.) High Uptime
3.) Reasonable Cost

I looking at following options
1) DIAS for BSNL (Rs 800)
2) Huch or airtel (Rs 600)
3)Reliance (but I have no CDMA handset :-( )

I hope many of u might have gone same dilemma as I
...pl share ur experiences and kindly suggest

luv
Romeo 

___

Have you looked into DSL by touchtel? Linux client might be an issue
though.

Akshay


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Re: [ilugd] Re: [ilugd-announce] ILUGD Monthly Meet 28th March, 2004

2004-03-20 Thread LinuxLingam
here is what i propose:

1) every ilug-d meet begins with a 15-minute introduction to gnulinux
for newbies and even wannabies. each time, a new guy from our group
delivers this presentation, in his or her own style and interpretation.

the assumption will be is that the target audience for this talk is made
of windoze users who have never seen gnulinux in their life but have
heard about it.

the choice of topix, the content of the talk, is entirely upto whoever
volunteers. for instance, someone could just give a walk-through of an
installation (think install fest). another could do a walk-thru of
equivalent software like gaim, mplayer, oo, intro to vi/emacs, etc etc.
and so on.


the rest of the meet focuses on other topics, not necessarily for
newbies, such as the usual ones suggested here.

however, just handing out documents or free cds is not enough for a
newbie. and since we have not been able to mobilize our initiatives to
hold regular newbie meets, i recommend we hold a 15-minute newbie intro
every meet.

LL


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Re: [ilugd] Re: [ilugd-announce] ILUGD Monthly Meet 28th March, 2004

2004-03-20 Thread vivek khurana

--- LinuxLingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 here is what i propose:
 
 1) every ilug-d meet begins with a 15-minute
 introduction to gnulinux
 for newbies and even wannabies. each time, a new guy
 from our group
 delivers this presentation, in his or her own style
 and interpretation.

Okay guyz, LL has volunteerd to give introductory note
in this meet. 
 Which topic LL ?? It will be great if you can give an
intro on security. 
 Raj is now free to speak on GPG. I would strongly
suggest some one speak on GPG or atleast demonstrate
generation of a GPG key, and its verification.
 
regards
VK

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RE: [ilugd] Which ISP?

2004-03-20 Thread vivek khurana

--- Akshay Lamba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I looking at following options
 1) DIAS for BSNL (Rs 800)
Using MTNL provides all three. BSNL must be providing
it. I get a good speed over a dial up (3-4 Kbps)



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Re: [ilugd] Re: [ilugd-announce] ILUGD Monthly Meet 28th March, 2004

2004-03-20 Thread LinuxLingam
On Sun, 2004-03-21 at 01:00, vivek khurana wrote:

 
 Okay guyz, LL has volunteerd to give introductory note
 in this meet. 
  Which topic LL ?? It will be great if you can give an
 intro on security.

nope. i volunteer to speak on nothing. have already delivered a more
than fair amount of talks at ilug-d, and am also delivering talks and
conducting events at several colleges and universities past few weeks on
various aspects of gnulinux.

if you read the mail carefully, it says each time a new guy from our
group delivers this introduction. 

i am a living fossil of ilug-d. :)

perhaps mairu could give a talk on any aspect for newbies and wannabes.
i don't know. i leave it upto the people in the community to volunteer.
 
  Raj is now free to speak on GPG. I would strongly
 suggest some one speak on GPG or atleast demonstrate
 generation of a GPG key, and its verification.
  

sure.


LL


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Re: [ilugd] Re: [ilugd-announce] ILUGD Monthly Meet 28th March, 2004

2004-03-20 Thread vivek khurana

--- LinuxLingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sun, 2004-03-21 at 01:00, vivek khurana wrote:


 
 if you read the mail carefully, it says each time a
 new guy from our
 group delivers this introduction. 
 I had read mail carefully. No problems if you don't
want to speak. We will miss your mesmerizing speach.
 
 i am a living fossil of ilug-d. :)
 
 perhaps mairu could give a talk on any aspect for
 newbies and wannabes.
 i don't know. i leave it upto the people in the
 community to volunteer.

 Okay who is volunteering for a introductory note, it
will be good if we give regular guyz a rest(Raj,
Kishore, LL, etc). 
  

regards
Vivek

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RE: [ilugd] Re: [ilugd-announce] ILUGD Monthly Meet 28th March, 2004

2004-03-20 Thread Akshay Lamba
 Okay who is volunteering for a introductory note, it
will be good if we give regular guyz a rest(Raj,
Kishore, LL, etc). 
  

regards
Vivek


_

Would intro to security tools (nessus, nmap, ntop) / common services
(proxy - squid, IDS - snort, firewall - iptables) be ok? Just an intro
to the tools and quick method of setting one up using webmin.

Regards,
Akshay



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[ilugd] Anyone interested in these distro's?

2004-03-20 Thread Bhaskar Dutta
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



Hi,

  Anyone interested in obtaining copies of any of the following distros may 
please contact me off-list.

~Linux From Scratch (LFS 5.0  BLFS sources KDE, OO, XFCE4 etc +1GB)
~Gentoo 2004.0 (3 discs, x86-minimal, x86-universal, packages-athlon-xp)
~FreeBSD 5.2 (2 discs) (+ ports)
~FreeBSD 5.1 (2 discs)
~Mandrake 10.0 (3 discs)
~Mandrake 9.2 (2 discs)
~Knoppix 3.4 (c't edition)
~Knoppix 3.3 (KNOPPIX_V3.3-2003-11-19-EN.iso)
~Fedora Core 1 (3 discs)
~Debian 3.0r1 (5 discs) (+ sid debs +1.5GB)
~System Rescue CD x86 version 0.2.11 
 
Place: North Campus, Delhi Univ.
Cost:  $ 0.02
Media: Get your own if possible ( i have limited moser baer cd-r's)
NOTE:  Please _remember_ that you need to come down to my place for this!


Regards,
Bhaskar

- -- 

___

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 GPG .eq. AA56 1EB5 D7E8 DD9C 298E  8F4D 375F D416 01D5 671C
- ---
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[ilugd] Embedded Linux

2004-03-20 Thread Ankur Tyagi
Hello,
  Please this time in the Linux User's meet can there be a demo of something relating 
to the Embedded Development.

Vivek Khurana promised to do the same in the march meet.

Thanx
Ankur Tyagi 
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Re: [ilugd] Embedded Linux

2004-03-20 Thread vivek khurana

--- Ankur  Tyagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,
   Please this time in the Linux User's meet can
 there be a demo of something relating to the
 Embedded Development.
 
 Vivek Khurana promised to do the same in the march
 meet.
I am still ready to do it, but this meet is about
linux securities so may be in next meet(depends on my
availability). If you want any specific
information/query you can contact me offlist or post
your question on list (i will answer it in both
cases).

regards
vivek

=
Disclamer
The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is 
yours to draw...

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[ilugd] Newbie Kernel Development

2004-03-20 Thread Ankur Tyagi
Hello,
   I started with the basics of Kernel programing.
The problem I am encountering is that when I compile my file and try to load it using  
(insmod ./hello1.o) it says the code was compiled for version 2.4.20 and this is 
kernel 2.4.20-8 so it cannot load the Kernel module.
Another problem is that the parameter KERN_ALERT in printk is unrecognised   value for 
the program.

Attaching my hello1.c , hello2.c and makefile1 for both the modules.

Thanx 
Ankur Tyagi___
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[ilugd] ymessenger and http proxy

2004-03-20 Thread Sandeep Gupta
hi
Yahoo messenger port is open at our place but we have a http proxy. So,
ymessenger is not able to show nick names in friend's list (it only
shows yahoo ids). Also, when i click on one of content tabs, it shows me
the proxy's notice stating that transparent access to http not allowed.
I've set http_proxy env. variable and have set http proxy using KDE and
Gnome control centers but this still doesn't work. On the other hand,
applications like evolution can access http (for summary display).

Any solutions?! I don't want to use proxy settings in ymessenger as it
becomes very slow in sending  receiving msgs.
-- 
Sandeep Gupta


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