Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Manish
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Praveen A wrote:
 2008/5/13 Raj Mathur :

   On a side note, if this becomes common I wonder what changes MS is going
to make in their licence? :)  Will they remove the ``if you do not
agree'' section altogether?  Or are they required by law to keep it
there?

  Windows Vista EULA does not have an option like this.

Which Vista EULA does not?  Because Vista Business does.
Please see my earlier email for verbatim quote.

-- Manish

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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Manish
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

  On 14-May-08, at 2:37 AM, Linux Lingam wrote:

   hence the helpful 'decline' or 'do not accept' button or equivalent,
   provided by the user-friendly microsoft.

  this is no longer provided - accept or switch off

I wish would just ask incredulously Are you really sure you are not nuts?!
and then delete the partition with the payload upon confirmation.

-- Manish

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Re: [ilugd] HELP for beginners

2008-05-14 Thread aashish khanna
thanks kenneth..
i talked to prof gaur.the college is working on up gradation of present
infrastructure.


On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


 On 14-May-08, at 8:12 AM, aashish khanna wrote:

  also ,i just checked the NRC FOSS website...i can't find any
  internship
  thing..though there is a student fellowship program but it's
  written they
  want people with proven record in foss and i am a complete novice..

 please mail srinivasan at au-kbc dot org


 --
 regards

 Kenneth Gonsalves
 Associate, NRC-FOSS
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://nrcfosshelpline.in/code/





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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Manish
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Raj Mathur wrote:
 On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Manish wrote:
   [snip]

  It's not Microsoft who is supposed to refund but the reseller (as I
   understand from the license.)  Besides the license asks to contact
   the manufacturer or installer, if you do not agree to the license,
   to determine their return policy for a refund or credit.  And then
   they tell you that the policy is to not refund.  How contrivedly
   convenient.

  Ah, then you're very much within your rights to get a refund or credit.
  After all, they can't blame you for following the instructions on the
  licence itself!

I certainly hope so.

  As a multitude of other people on this list have pointed out, the
  consumer courts are probably the best place to take this issue to.
  However, I'd let the vendor know that I was planning to approach the
  consumer court beforehand, to give them a chance to be
  gentlemen/gentlewomen/gentlepersons-of-indeterminate-gender, play nice
  and refund the money before their name gets dragged in the mud.

I have just been told not to waste their and my time about pursuing
this further with them since The management have made the decision,
and we are not refunding you for the Operating System. This decision
is final.

I have told them that I intend to take this issue to Indian consumer
court and have also requested them to share their Indian
correspondence address so that a legal notice can be served on them.

  On a side note, if this becomes common I wonder what changes MS is going
  to make in their licence? :)  Will they remove the ``if you do not
  agree'' section altogether?  Or are they required by law to keep it
  there?

None whatsoever.  I suspect the clause exists because of US law and
not because Indian law requires it which is why they sound so
confident about brushing it off.  Hence my repeated suspicion if it is
binding under Indian law.  Guess there's only one way to find out.

  IANAL, TINLA.

Ack.

-- Manish

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[ilugd] up nic registration forms

2008-05-14 Thread PJ
I'm having trouble viewing the pdf documents on

http://registryoffice.up.nic.in/

(other than the marriage registration document). Eg: click on the 'certified
copy link. The pdf doc that comes up renders as gobbledygook.

I'd like to contact them, but the contact, instead of being plain html is pdf,
rendered - you guessed it - as gobbledygook.

Clicking around further to try and find out who should take credit for this,
I see that most of the site is pdfs that can't be rendered. How unfathomable.
Why would anyone do that? My eyebrows crawled right up my scalp and over to the
back of my head in astonishment.

UP is a state that if it was a country would be in the top 6 by population
ranking. So providing such crap service without getting its producers lynched
by an outraged mob is really pretty damned impressive.

If anyone can figure out how to complain about this, do let me know.

PJ



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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Tanveer Singh


   IANAL, TINLA.

 Ack.

 -- Manish


 IANAL, but from whatever I have seen from the Europe case, and MRTPCs
notices served to companies, you do not have a case in consumer court at
all.
A vendor has the right to sell bundled stuff. For example Big Bazaar can
sell rice bundled with  washing powder. you cannot refuse washing powder and
claim refund.
however, if Big Bazaar was selling rice with washing powder of a certain
brand only, and forcing you to sign a usage agreement, then it would become
a valid case to MRTPC.
I suggest you make a complaint to MRTPC, A MRTPC notice to Lenovo should
shake their boots.
Meanwhile try to get a story posted on slashdot.
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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Manish
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Manish wrote:
[snip]
  Yes, I was aware that it had Windows pre-installed.  The
  advertisements did not say that I will have to agree to a separate
  (restrictive) license nor did it list the terms of the license
  anywhere I could read before I made the purchase (I will have to
  double check this.)  I had access to the terms (unacceptable) only
  after I had purchased the notebook. :)

Just checked.  Lenovo website does not display the Windows EULA
anywhere and nor does it warn users that they would be required to
agree to a license with terms that are not known to them at the time
of making a purchase.  And anyways anything they say on their website
is suspect since I also found this gem at their website:

  Lenovo assumes no responsibility regarding the accuracy of the
  information that is provided by Lenovo and use of such information
  is at the recipient's own risk.

rant

Oh Lenovo, why do you not take responsibility for the accuracy of a
website that is totally under your control and used to conduct your
business for profit.  You only want to have customers pay you in good
faith and then you betray them by not agreeing to terms of a license
that _you_ bundle.  Simply amazing.  I have had better experience with
people and projects that have simply given away their fruits of labor
both in terms of speed and quality of response and they did take
accuracy of their work and statements personally.

In another context:

I just had someone visit me claiming to verify details that I
provided in a credit card application in my own handwriting.  Earlier
also the company had a data entry operator call and verify the same
details.  This dude is not even carrying any ID and when I refused to
share any details then he tells me, No problem sir it is anyways not
required, just formality.  Their agent also had similar attitude when
I was filling out the forms.  Why are we doing this?  Why are we
wasting so much energy, money and time on appearance's on sham?

It's the same everywhere I see: passport offices, employment
contracts, rental agreements, income-tax office, everywhere.
Disrespect and casual attitude towards everything.  And you are
supposed to take it without a whimper.  If you question these
practices and attitudes and make a noise then they look at you as if
they have never seen a Vogon before.

Isn't all of this somehow related?  Disrespect, thoughtlessness and
crass attitude towards customers, employees, citizens, procedure,
propriety, patients, students, ...

/rant

Promise I won't repeat such off-topic stuff.  I just had to get it out
of the system.  May be I should start a blog to vent.

And I think I should not be seeking just a refund from Lenovo but also
a personal and printed apology.

-- Manish

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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Tanveer Singh
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Linux Lingam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 [snip]

   Meanwhile try to get a story posted on slashdot.


 in the days of sincere and professional journalism,
 newspapers and magazines would get their journalists to get on the
 phone, and/or chase down legal experts, and industry experts, to get a
 multi-dimensional, unbiased, investigative report, with citations,
 references, documentation, and basically, hard-nosed journalism
 at-work.

 Express Computer, LinuxForYou, PCQuest, DataQuest, PCWorld, Chip, Digit
 The Hindu, Times of India, Hindustan Times, Economic Times...

 i *wonder* who among them understand the news-worthiness of this
 story, and appreciate the due-diligence and persistence required to
 handle this story?

 freedom of the press
 is not too different
 from freedom in software.

 or is Lenovo or microsoft or placeholder more important as an advertiser?

  Its the official policy of most major newpapers/magazines not to post
anything against advertisers. So unless there is a major court case and
convictions etc., the story will not be published.
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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Linux Lingam
[snip]

  Meanwhile try to get a story posted on slashdot.


in the days of sincere and professional journalism,
newspapers and magazines would get their journalists to get on the
phone, and/or chase down legal experts, and industry experts, to get a
multi-dimensional, unbiased, investigative report, with citations,
references, documentation, and basically, hard-nosed journalism
at-work.

Express Computer, LinuxForYou, PCQuest, DataQuest, PCWorld, Chip, Digit
The Hindu, Times of India, Hindustan Times, Economic Times...

i *wonder* who among them understand the news-worthiness of this
story, and appreciate the due-diligence and persistence required to
handle this story?

freedom of the press
is not too different
from freedom in software.

or is Lenovo or microsoft or placeholder more important as an advertiser?

regards
niyam

-- 
niyam bhushan

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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Manish
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Linux Lingam wrote:
 [snip]


Meanwhile try to get a story posted on slashdot.


  in the days of sincere and professional journalism,
  newspapers and magazines would get their journalists to get on the
  phone, and/or chase down legal experts, and industry experts, to get a
  multi-dimensional, unbiased, investigative report, with citations,
  references, documentation, and basically, hard-nosed journalism
  at-work.

Industry experts?  As in folks from Infosys, Wipro, HCL, TCS, NASSCOM, ...?
Same folks who genuflected before MS and voted for OOXML?

  Express Computer, LinuxForYou, PCQuest, DataQuest, PCWorld, Chip, Digit
  The Hindu, Times of India, Hindustan Times, Economic Times...

  i *wonder* who among them understand the news-worthiness of this
  story, and appreciate the due-diligence and persistence required to
  handle this story?

You do.  And you are a journalist.  And I am not kidding.

  freedom of the press
  is not too different
  from freedom in software.

  or is Lenovo or microsoft or placeholder more important as an advertiser?

Rahul from LFY can help us get an insight into this.

-- Manish

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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Manish
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Tanveer Singh wrote:
[snip]
Its the official policy of most major newpapers/magazines not to post
  anything against advertisers. So unless there is a major court case and
  convictions etc., the story will not be published.

Sorry for questioning your statement but why are you so sure?  Do you
have any direct experience?

-- Manish

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Re: [ilugd] up nic registration forms

2008-05-14 Thread Manish
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 1:29 PM, PJ wrote:
 I'm having trouble viewing the pdf documents on

  http://registryoffice.up.nic.in/

  (other than the marriage registration document). Eg: click on the 'certified
  copy link. The pdf doc that comes up renders as gobbledygook.

  I'd like to contact them, but the contact, instead of being plain html is 
 pdf,
  rendered - you guessed it - as gobbledygook.

  Clicking around further to try and find out who should take credit for this,
  I see that most of the site is pdfs that can't be rendered. How unfathomable.
  Why would anyone do that? My eyebrows crawled right up my scalp and over to 
 the
  back of my head in astonishment.

  UP is a state that if it was a country would be in the top 6 by population
  ranking.

UP is #1 actually (ref: http://cyberjournalist.org.in/census/cenindia.html)

 So providing such crap service without getting its producers lynched
  by an outraged mob is really pretty damned impressive.

  If anyone can figure out how to complain about this, do let me know.

Try this http://nicsu.up.nic.in/

-- Manish

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Re: [ilugd] up nic registration forms

2008-05-14 Thread Raj Mathur
On Wednesday 14 May 2008, PJ wrote:
 I'm having trouble viewing the pdf documents on

 http://registryoffice.up.nic.in/

 (other than the marriage registration document). Eg: click on the
 'certified copy link. The pdf doc that comes up renders as
 gobbledygook.

I could be wrong, but my guess is that the documents are Hindi with some 
proprietary font.  Don't know enough about PDF to try to dissect 
them...

Anyone with a Winduhs computer who can check whether the PDFs render in 
vanilla Winduhs?

P.S. Are we renaming this list to ilugd-activists ? :)

Regards,

-- Raju
-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
PsyTrance  Chill: http://schizoid.in/   ||   It is the mind that moves

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Re: [ilugd] up nic registration forms

2008-05-14 Thread Manish
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:

 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7

 Raj seems to have moved on in life. :-P

That was quite some time ago..
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi/13673/match=automatically+grab+sender+addresses+kmail

And the move produced kbbdb:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi/13693/match=addresses+kmail

-- Manish

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Re: [ilugd] up nic registration forms

2008-05-14 Thread Sandip Bhattacharya
+++ Manish [14/05/08 20:17 +0530]:
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:

 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7

 Raj seems to have moved on in life. :-P

That was quite some time ago..
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi/13673/match=automatically+grab+sender+addresses+kmail

Date: 2006-09-28 02:42:11 GMT (1 year, 32 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours and 9
   minutes ago)

Eep. Have been out of touch that long? :-P Or maybe it is the return to mutt
that let me know.



And the move produced kbbdb:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi/13693/match=addresses+kmail

That sounds nifty.

- Sandip

-- 
Sandip Bhattacharya
http://blog.sandipb.net

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Re: [ilugd] ilugd Digest, Vol 62, Issue 25

2008-05-14 Thread Kamal Dave

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 12:20:49 +0530
From: Manish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  The Linux-Delhi mailing list
ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org
Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Raj Mathur wrote:
 On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Manish wrote:
   [snip]

  It's not Microsoft who is supposed to refund but the reseller (as I
   understand from the license.)  Besides the license asks to contact
   the manufacturer or installer, if you do not agree to the license,
   to determine their return policy for a refund or credit.  And then
   they tell you that the policy is to not refund.  How contrivedly
   convenient.

  Ah, then you're very much within your rights to get a refund or credit.
  After all, they can't blame you for following the instructions on the
  licence itself!
 
I certainly hope so.
 
  As a multitude of other people on this list have pointed out, the
  consumer courts are probably the best place to take this issue to.
  However, I'd let the vendor know that I was planning to approach the
  consumer court beforehand, to give them a chance to be
  gentlemen/gentlewomen/gentlepersons-of-indeterminate-gender, play nice
  and refund the money before their name gets dragged in the mud.
 
I have just been told not to waste their and my time about pursuing
this further with them since The management have made the decision,
and we are not refunding you for the Operating System. This decision
is final.
 
I have told them that I intend to take this issue to Indian consumer
court and have also requested them to share their Indian
correspondence address so that a legal notice can be served on them.
 
  On a side note, if this becomes common I wonder what changes MS is going
  to make in their licence? :)  Will they remove the ``if you do not
  agree'' section altogether?  Or are they required by law to keep it
  there?
 
None whatsoever.  I suspect the clause exists because of US law and
not because Indian law requires it which is why they sound so
confident about brushing it off.  Hence my repeated suspicion if it is
binding under Indian law.  Guess there's only one way to find out.
 
  IANAL, TINLA.
 
Ack.
 
-- Manish


==
Manish/ List
Under the Consumer protection act, action can be initiated against such bundling

for the benefit of all, 

[As per section 2 (c) (i)
complaint means any allegation in writing made by a complain­ant that— 
an unfair trade practice or a restrictive trade practice has been adopted by 
any trader or service provider;

and as per section 2(nnn)Restrictive Trade practice is
(nnn)“restrictive trade practice” means a trade practice which tends
to bring about manipulation of price or conditions of delivery or to affect
flow of supplies in the market relating to goods or services in such a manner
as to impose on the consumers unjustified costs or restrictions and shall
include—
(a)  delay beyond the
period agreed to by a trader in supply of such goods or in providing the
services which has led or is likely to lead to rise in the price;
(b)  any trade practice which requires a consumer
to buy, hire or avail of any goods or, as the case may be, services as
condition precedent to buying, hiring or availing of other goods or services;]

Therefore action under consumer protection act be initiated.  No lawyer is 
needed in contesting the case, so you can choose the forum where you wish to 
initiate proceedings.
Civil Courts and as also said by Sudev, you can alternatively go before the 
Monopolies and Restrictive Trade Commission with your complaint.


Kamal Dave
Advocate


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[ilugd] need help regarding web hosting

2008-05-14 Thread Vinay Yadav
Hello everyone I m about to launch my own site 
But i m very much newbie for web hosting and domain name registration

In starting i m expecting traffic from india but aftr that site will go
international ...
so logically i shall buy web space from india .But i m very much
confused about that ...according to my few knowledge India have less
data centre and most of hosting site just have reseller account and they
actually outsource web space and actually your site is lauch on US or Other
big hoster ...so even i buy web space from web space it
actually on US so showing less speed for india


Plz suggest me what shall i do
*buy web space from india web hosting site (even they are just an reseller
account
* Buy web space directly from US server ( They r much cheaper )
*buy web space which have own data centre in INDIA ( if u have list plz plz
send me )
-- 
**
Vinay Yadav
B.tech(IT) , JSSATEN
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
del.icio.us/vinayrks
***
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[ilugd] Workshops at local colleges

2008-05-14 Thread Gora Mohanty
Hi,
  The Computer Society of India (CSI), Ghaziabad Chapter, is interested
in organising lectures, and workshops aimed largely at students in local
colleges. The first such event is planned to be a one-day workshop on
the 7th of June, at the Indraprastha Engineering College in Ghaziabad.
More details on this after I meet with them this Fri.

  As we have had such events in the past, and some of them, such as the
one in RKGIT, Ghaziabd, have been very successful in attracting students
to participate in ILUG-D activities, I think that we should encourage
them more than we have been doing. Towards this end, I have prepared a
list of potential topics for a workshop at
http://wiki.linux-delhi.org/cgi-bin/twiki/Main/CollegeExpo
Please feel free to edit it.

  The idea is to come up with a list of topics, along with a plan of
what to cover, and how much time it would take. For example, I have done
this for the topics on Indian language computing. Then, for any particular
workshop, we can mix and match topics according to local interest.
Hopefully, this will allow us to do such workshops in a systematic way.

Regards,
Gora

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Re: [ilugd] need help regarding web hosting

2008-05-14 Thread Sudev Barar
2008/5/14 Vinay Yadav [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hello everyone I m about to launch my own site 
 But i m very much newbie for web hosting and domain name registration

 In starting i m expecting traffic from india but aftr that site will go
 international ...
 so logically i shall buy web space from india .But i m very much
[sniping out the confusion]

Depends on your application, hit volumes and budget. I would suggest
that you do not try save money by going to cheap registrars who do not
allow domain records to be edited.  My experience has been to go with
net4india or similar for dotIN or networksolutions and similar for
dotCOM etc.
Once you have capability of pointing your domain records  you can
start offf on a cheaper hosting and as the traffic builds up move your
host to expensive (and presumably better) hosting or even
mulihosting. All you have to do is re-point your domain records to new
server.

-- 
Regards,
Sudev Barar

Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there.

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Re: [ilugd] Workshops at local colleges

2008-05-14 Thread Sudev Barar
2008/5/15 Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  The Computer Society of India (CSI), Ghaziabad Chapter, is interested
 in organising lectures, and workshops aimed largely at students in local
 colleges. The first such event is planned to be a one-day workshop on
 the 7th of June, at the Indraprastha Engineering College in Ghaziabad.

One of the first things CSI should do is order free CD's from Ubuntu
for distribution there is just about enough time. Can you ask them to
do this even before Friday? Or LUG can do this.

I am willing to run a LTSP workshop/lecture.
-- 
Regards,
Sudev Barar

Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there.

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[ilugd] anyone having fedora - 9 DVD downloaded

2008-05-14 Thread Rakesh Pandit
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello all,

 Has anyone downloaded fedora 9 DVD (living in Delhi or Ghaziabadh)
 and is willing to share?

 I have a week connection and it may take 6 days to complete
 download. If anyone around has already downloaded or is downloading
 and can share, lets communicate off the list.

 Cheers,
 
- -- 
Rakesh Pandit
GPG Key ID: ECD47F15
Keyserver:  hkp://subkeys.pgp.net

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFIK6JjeRg4ouzUfxURApVyAJ0QZgZYQ/TagC8x2oY3ovvQ9KVImQCfYWg9
M+fbDLJWMHT1HfEkcv9Hppk=
=IXL7
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [ilugd] M$ Tax Refund Quest

2008-05-14 Thread Praveen A
2008/5/13 Manish [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  Windows Vista EULA does not have an option like this.

 Which Vista EULA does not?  Because Vista Business does.
 Please see my earlier email for verbatim quote.

That is what I read somewhere, Microsoft has fixed this loop hole in
Vista. Now that you have confirmed it is not the case.

Regards
Praveen
-- 
പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
GPLv2 I know my rights; I want my phone call!
DRM What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
(as seen on /.)
Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now!
http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign
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