Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
Sheesh. I should really be working, so this will be my last email on the thread :) If you can buy an assembled PC for 10K then have you ever thought how much a thin client with not that much of hardware would cost? Of course I have. Thats why systems like LTSP come in handy too. Not only can you build systems which are centrally controlled, you have the option and power to be able to run software which might not run over a network. Or may be too slow to do so - not everyone designs programs in order to run them off a network. Also individual PCs might be more flexible, but they also need maintenance and management, which in turn costs money. So yes expenses is a problem here no matter how many pffft's you do. BTW if money is not the problem here and then what is? Why don't more SOHO's use more PCs. Don't tell me they don't need them. Ok, you have one person to maintain the server then? Very Well. This sysadmin can very easily do any maintainence task remotely - *if such computing power was really needed*. My argument to the previously stated sentence (in an earlier email) was that thin clients are not the ultimate panacea they are being made out to be. As i mentioned, if all you need is word processing or accounting, by all means go ahead and get these systems. Apart from money, the other attribute which matters is the will to automate your processes, as well as getting your automation RIGHT. Just buying computers or even software won't help. You have to integrate it with your existing customers and work methods. This is always the toughest part of adapting technology. How do you think consultants make their dough? :) And as for SOHOs not using PCs, please - I'm sure all of them do, even if not specifically for their functioning - but accounts and stuff are always done on Tally or similar programs. Pirated copies of Excel at the very least. No one maintains Logbooks for finances and accounts anymore. What do you think they use? Looks like you have a very selective liking for advertisements. Never saw computer related ads eh? :) I was talking about it from the perspective of an ad issued in public interest vs one which has a private concern in it. Well don't know which school you want to go where they will allow people to screw with their systems. No one would allow it. I'm not even talking about these systems *allowing* anything on it. My reference is simply, that when it comes to people who as I said before, would want to be the technological elite at some point, this is a problem. Consider someone who wants to contribute to an open source project and has no net access which is good enough. His college definitely would. But no, they don't have access to the machines after 5pm! Shucks. I'm not asking him to go blow up the registry - maybe that wasn't the best example to take. Its just a matter of access. You are limited further by a thin client in such cases. Thats why it doesnt make sense for colleges/schools to replace their existing desktops with them. (Again, Unless your purpose is Narrow enough to warrant this) In school we used PCs for our project works and then in the med school used them to find additional references, on a custom made program that had important books scanned for us. Right. When we talk about a home, what kind of uses do you forsee for the machines? Catalogue searches? References of journals and publications? I think not. See my first point about it being perfectly acceptable to use thin clients in certain cases, and not in others. We could find what we were looking for in the program, read a bit and then get print outs to read them thoroughly later. The problem we faced was that there were only two PCs with this program installed. If the college could connect to a central server with thin clients working, then it would have HELPED us to get easier to access to that important database. In this specific case, agreeably, any online system is good enough. It doesn't HAVE to be a thin client, let one endorsed by a brand. As for only 2 PCs having this system installed, why were they not installed on the other machines which (i assume) existed? And in case there WERE only 2 machines at that particular spot, and the program was network enabled as it would need to be if it was used with thin clients, why did they not put it on a network in the first place? Don't even think about buying more desktops and installing more than one copy. Each license of this programs is leased at a cost of 1.25 lacs per year. Ah. And you think makers of online software which can be used by clients don't take this into account? I assure you, any program worth its salt (and this one looks like an extremely saline one) will charge its users similar licensing costs per user, depending on the number of terminals you have. And the thing is, how are you even sure that the company which makes this program has a client-server system running? Its
Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
On Friday 06 January 2006 12:24, Viksit Gaur wrote: but how many SOHOs actually have networked offices? Not too many. That situation imo exists because it is too expensive for them to get more desktops and then get them networked. Once the thin clients become popular (which Google can achieve by its level of marketing) then we will surely see more SOHO's with networking and thin clients. In fact it can also help institutions like schools and colleges who want their students to access only limited amount of content which could be already present on their servers. Not having enough bandwidth or speed of our so called broadband connections will be detrimental only to plans of using content right from the internet but then how many work are we doing like this anyways and by the time such functionality reaches to the masses you will be having uncapped connection with good bandwidth (at least I hope so) :) Regards, Abhay ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
--- Abhay Kedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That situation imo exists because it is too expensive for them to get more desktops and then get them networked. Really, you jest. Expensive? Buying an assembled PC for about 10k, which would be much more flexible and powerful than a thin client, and then spending maybe a 1000 bucks on networking. pffft, expense isn't the problem here. Once the thin clients become popular (which Google can achieve by its level of marketing) then we will surely see more SOHO's with networking and thin clients. What kind of marketing are we talking about here anyway? TV ads exhorting people to go buy google pcs? I mean, having nirodh ads on TV is one thing, and asking people to buy thin clients just because google's made them is something else... fact it can also help institutions like schools and colleges who want their students to access only limited amount of content which could be already present on their servers. Whoa whoa. Hang on there a minute. HELP? I'm not sure how old you are, but do you even know the sorry state of affairs in colleges and schools in the country? Not only will they not allow their students to experiment with computers, they will impose severe penalties on those who have the temerity to do so. Talk about open source and the hacking paradigm. You think MIT would be the mecca for hackers if they'd left their PDPs and other machines to the technicians, who had the power to expel people for displaying an interest in computers? Fact is, people graduating today - a large majority anyway - have no idea about computers save the fact that word processing is the same as MS Word, presentations mean Powerpoint, and viruses and trojans are something we just have to live with - things which can't be dealt with. How many people who use windows (students, so called people who 're aiming to be the techological elite of tomorrow) even know how to use the registry in order to see if they might have a trojan on their machine? Ok, so maybe I've exaggerated a bit - but this goes for most cases. And considering this state of affairs, you've got potential computer science majors using terminals which restrict them even further? Ok, so citrix machines and the like are pretty popular - I've used them myself, and done a rather large number of (*interesting*) things with them - much to the concern of a large number of sysadmins. But when you want to find out if you can break the encryption and capture keystrokes off someone else in your lab, and maybe surprise them - thin clients are going to be hardpressed. Not having enough bandwidth or speed of our so called broadband connections will be detrimental only to plans of using content right from the internet but then how many work are we doing like this anyways and by the time such functionality reaches to the masses you will be having uncapped connection with good bandwidth (at least I hope so) :) Er. What? Try some punctuation there.. Viksit -- Viksit Gaur viksit[dot]gaur[at]yale[dot]edu http://viksit.com Just because you have a mind like a hammer doesn't mean you should treat everyone else like a nail - Terry Pratchett __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
On Saturday 07 January 2006 11:00, Viksit Gaur wrote: Really, you jest. Expensive? Buying an assembled PC for about 10k, which would be much more flexible and powerful than a thin client, and then spending maybe a 1000 bucks on networking. pffft, expense isn't the problem here. If you can buy an assembled PC for 10K then have you ever thought how much a thin client with not that much of hardware would cost? Also individual PCs might be more flexible, but they also need maintenance and management, which in turn costs money. So yes expenses is a problem here no matter how many pffft's you do. BTW if money is not the problem here and then what is? Why don't more SOHO's use more PCs. Don't tell me they don't need them. What kind of marketing are we talking about here anyway? TV ads exhorting people to go buy google pcs? I mean, having nirodh ads on TV is one thing, and asking people to buy thin clients just because google's made them is something else... Looks like you have a very selective liking for advertisements. Never saw computer related ads eh? :) Whoa whoa. Hang on there a minute. HELP? I'm not sure how old you are, but do you even know the sorry state of affairs in colleges and schools in the country? Not only will they not allow their students to experiment with computers, they will impose severe penalties on those who have the temerity to do so. Talk about open source and the hacking paradigm. You think MIT would be the mecca for hackers if they'd left their PDPs and other machines to the technicians, who had the power to expel people for displaying an interest in computers? Well don't know which school you want to go where they will allow people to screw with their systems. No one would allow it. In school we used PCs for our project works and then in the med school used them to find additional references, on a custom made program that had important books scanned for us. We could find what we were looking for in the program, read a bit and then get print outs to read them thoroughly later. The problem we faced was that there were only two PCs with this program installed. If the college could connect to a central server with thin clients working, then it would have HELPED us to get easier to access to that important database. One of my friends who is a teacher in a management college also talks about a similar program. This program has database of loads of companies and students use it for their projects but once again the lack of terminals is a problem. Don't even think about buying more desktops and installing more than one copy. Each license of this programs is leased at a cost of 1.25 lacs per year!!! These simple things can be done in easier ways by using thin clients. They don't need machines good enough to play The Sims or churn code for them. They just want to use them for research and projects :) Fact is, people graduating today - a large majority anyway - have no idea about computers save the fact that word processing is the same as MS Word, presentations mean Powerpoint, and viruses and trojans are something we just have to live with - things which can't be dealt with. How many people who use windows (students, so called people who 're aiming to be the techological elite of tomorrow) even know how to use the registry in order to see if they might have a trojan on their machine? Ok, so maybe I've exaggerated a bit - but this goes for most cases. ...and your point being? How will thin clients worsen this problem? The only thing it will do is help schools/colleges the way I explained above. I seriously don't understand. You want schools to install more desktops and then tell their students...Hey, here you go. Go ahead...screw with registry?. Ridiculous!!! And considering this state of affairs, you've got potential computer science majors using terminals which restrict them even further? Ok, so citrix machines and the like are pretty popular - I've used them myself, and done a rather large number of (*interesting*) things with them - much to the concern of a large number of sysadmins. But when you want to find out if you can break the encryption and capture keystrokes off someone else in your lab, and maybe surprise them - thin clients are going to be hardpressed. No one is saying you to install them in engineering colleges or from where people will major in computer science. I think you should look the other way and see that there is more to this world then just encryptions and capturing keystrokes. This more to the world is where these clients can help. Just because this technology will not allow you to break into someone else's property for fun doesn't mean that it will not help anyone. Regards, Abhay ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at:
Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
somewhere along the thread, everyone conveniently forgot to mention that google has denied all rumours about entering the desktop market with its own hardware, in the first place. :-) niyam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
From HINDUSTAN TIMES January 5, 2006 GOOGLE MAY NOT GO SIMPUTER WAY Venkatesh Ganesh Mumbai, January 4 GOOGLE's ENTRY into the sub-Rs 10,000 PC market has rattled the cage of existing players. But the search-engine giant's entry into the hardware sector in India with a thin-client model (a PC with no hard disk and computing) may not be a walkover. HT was the first to report on December 15, 2005 about the Google's plans to enter the Indian market with thin-client model. Early entrants like the Simputer and other low-cost PCs are being still viewed skeptically. Globally too, thin-clients have managed to make only small inroads. But the real fight is for a different space. Google appears to be looking to dethrone Microsoft from its desktop throne. Thin clients have been viewed in a cautious manner primarily due to the price factor. But with Google entering the fray at such an attractive price point, things might change, says Nitin Mukadam, an e-commerce consultant. The advantage with thin clients is that the storage happens in a central server. For example, all data and applications (like word processors, spreadsheets, etc) are hosted in a central server. This solves a lot of problems right from storage to viruses. Also, with bandwidth prices coming down, the commercial viability of a thin-client device is now more feasible. Then, therere are issues with regards to Random Access Memory (RAM) that can run with even small memory space. Industry analysts opine that Google has a rough road ahead. Delivering complete functionality in a thin-client is most challenging, Sameer Kochhar CEO of Skotch told the Hindustan Times. Translated, it would imply that since Windows is the pre-dominant operating system, operating on non-Windows system would take some getting used to (Google would bundle Linux-based applications). Sanjeev Sharma, managing director, Fujusan Technologies, an Indian representative of Fujitsu, the Japanese IT and communication solution provider, feels that the acceptance of a device of this kind will be predominantly in the small office-home office.(ENDS) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
in infinite wisdom Frederick Noronha (FN) spoke thus on 01/05/06 19:35: Early entrants like the Simputer and other low-cost PCs are being still viewed skeptically. Globally too, thin-clients have managed to make only small inroads. Mobilis, that was launched by the makers of simputer, was promising and I called the company to find more about it. The guy took my email id and never got back. If you check their website, it is woefully lacking in details, however there are a ton of 'press coverage'. From what I can see, they have promised a lot, but delivered too little. *If* mobilis had delivered as much as it promised (and on time), I can see a good use for it (at least for myself). Since most of my work is done from emacs, I could use it as portable emacs. Alas! Real life sucks! :-) -- _.-, raj shekhar .--' '-._ http://rajshekhar.net _/`- _ '. http://rajshekhar.net/blog ''._`.. \ ` \; WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVENIENCE ;_\-- God's Last Message to his Creation ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 19:35 +0530, Frederick Noronha (FN) wrote: From HINDUSTAN TIMES January 5, 2006 GOOGLE MAY NOT GO SIMPUTER WAY Industry analysts opine that Google has a rough road ahead. Delivering complete functionality in a thin-client is most challenging, Sameer Kochhar CEO of Skotch told the Hindustan Times. Maybe we should invite the author to one of Sudev Sir's LTSP demo's. I'm really not sure what he means by complete functionality is most challenging. Akshay ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
--- Akshay Lamba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm really not sure what he means by complete functionality is most challenging. Perhaps the fact that a thin client needs something to *connect* to. Consider using existing capped web connections to do data processing of all sorts - the minute you pay for your last MB, you shut down your machine? Wow, awesome solution - no viruses, no trojans and of course, no productivity. But thats not a consideration AT ALL, is it? Gimme a break. Thin clients will remain a no-no till India sees better connectivity. But that shouldn't stop people from offering web based services which take a fraction of the bandwidth a thin client would. After all, you do your own processing and only transmit/receive small amounts of data. Viksit On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 19:35 +0530, Frederick Noronha (FN) wrote: From HINDUSTAN TIMES January 5, 2006 GOOGLE MAY NOT GO SIMPUTER WAY Industry analysts opine that Google has a rough road ahead. Delivering complete functionality in a thin-client is most challenging, Sameer Kochhar CEO of Skotch told the Hindustan Times. Maybe we should invite the author to one of Sudev Sir's LTSP demo's. Akshay ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ -- Viksit Gaur viksit[dot]gaur[at]yale[dot]edu http://viksit.com Just because you have a mind like a hammer doesn't mean you should treat everyone else like a nail - Terry Pratchett __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] COMMENT: Google may not go Simputer way
Hey, --- Abhay Kedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would thin clients work only over internet? I had an idea that if you make a Desktop PC with decent hardware then you can connect 3-4 (or more) thin clients to help a SOHO bring down the costs of buying new hardware and maintaining individual systems. For one, thin clients have traditionally worked over a local network, but with increasing bandwidth and connection speeds, they can be made to work over the internet too. Your idea is indeed correct - but how many SOHOs actually have networked offices? Not too many. Also if you have more than one person using PC at your place then wouldn't these thin clients work as desktops for each one of them as well? Do I have some wrong info or am I thinking on entirely different wavelength? Well, it would depend on what the computer's being used for. IF your little sister wants to play 'The Sims' on a home computer, no way she's going to use a Thin client. If all you have to do is word processing and some spreadsheets, then yes, thin clients are a good option. And if we talk specifically about home users, they would much rather buy fully featured PCs because of the wide variety of uses each would have. Thats my take on it anyway - I'm sure others might feel differently. Viksit -- Viksit Gaur viksit[dot]gaur[at]yale[dot]edu http://viksit.com Just because you have a mind like a hammer doesn't mean you should treat everyone else like a nail - Terry Pratchett __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
