Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
in infinite wisdom Sandip Bhattacharya spoke thus On 10/02/2008 12:14 AM: Well, I have been waiting to see the FOSS response to this for a while now. It is an interesting problem to solve. Of course, just calling it a trap doesn't suffice. You have to provide an alternative. Check the essay Rick Moen . . . INOLJ-OOW2.0C (Is Not On LiveJournal Or Other Web 2.0 Cults) http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html by Rick Moen. The guy suggests a number of alternatives to cloud computing websites. -- raj shekhar facts: http://rajshekhar.net opinions: http://rajshekhar.net/blog I've never made anyone's life easier and you know it! ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
Well, I have been waiting to see the FOSS response to this for a while now. It is an interesting problem to solve. Of course, just calling it a trap doesn't suffice. You have to provide an alternative. http://eucalyptus.cs.ucsb.edu/ FYI: redhat is also working on some cloud computing projects of their own. I don't have a link with me right now, though. It is a very interesting technology which will obviously change the way many applications can work. It challenges the whole notion of how computing is done today. The only response to it from a FOSS POV is to provide an alternate business model. Something similar to how the SETI project(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_computing), or even Tor works. While I agree with the points RMS is making, I don't really agree with the way he has put them. Cloud computing is the next frontier and I'm not saying this because everyone else is saying. I'm saying this because as a user all I care about is my data and ofcourse my freedom to use it anywhere. Cloud computing gives me that. Most vendors take care of keeping backups etc also so that's one more thing off my plate as a user. It certainly is promising. The only thing the user needs to be aware of is data lock-in and then decide on the service he/she uses. Like someone else on this thread said, Gmail has all my emails, but atleast I have an option of using pop/imap to get them back, even if gmail actually makes a second copy of all emails and keeps them on their servers somewhere, I've still got my data back. Privacy is a touchy subject but do you really think normal guys who DO NOT hang out on slashdot care about having their email stored on gmail or not ? I remember the hue and cry that was made when gmail launched and google decided to display advertisements based on the content of the emails. And now those very people are all using gmail. Perhaps RMS can afford to have highly available, always backed up email/data available to him, but the general public cannot, and that is where cloud computing is supposed to help. -- Sharninder http://nomadicrider.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is awaiting. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman -- Swapnil Bhartiya http://ybfree.blogspot.com/ Mobile: 09910956518 === I use Free Software, what do you use? === ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:54:31 Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is awaiting. Well, I have been waiting to see the FOSS response to this for a while now. It is an interesting problem to solve. Of course, just calling it a trap doesn't suffice. You have to provide an alternative. It is a very interesting technology which will obviously change the way many applications can work. It challenges the whole notion of how computing is done today. The only response to it from a FOSS POV is to provide an alternate business model. Something similar to how the SETI project(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_computing), or even Tor works. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:54:31 Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is awaiting. Well, I have been waiting to see the FOSS response to this for a while now. It is an interesting problem to solve. Of course, just calling it a trap doesn't suffice. You have to provide an alternative. It is a very interesting technology which will obviously change the way many applications can work. It challenges the whole notion of how computing is done today. The only response to it from a FOSS POV is to provide an alternate business model. Something similar to how the SETI project(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_computing), or even Tor works. - Sandip I quite agree with RMS. When we work locally at least data is with us. Cloud computing followed by SaaS is a dangerous stuff. There can be a lot of legal issues, for example, two years ago I did a story of Iran where US based companies were banned for offering any service in the nation. The entire nation came to knees as from basic emailing to ticket reservation and everything else depended on MS and other proprietary technologies. Now, where were they going to get support from? They switched to GNU/Linux and Free Software and they are building upon it. Now, since the companies operate globally how and why should the parent nation control that? What if India refused to sign Nuclear Treaty, and US puts embargo on India Google, Yahoo, and all US based companies asked to stop operations in India, everything will come to halt (Though Indian being a software power it may not happen still). You will lose all the data/application to access that residing on servers of those compnies. If you have data locally, you will still be alive and cicking. In the world of cloud computing/saas, we need more tranparancy, no vendor lock-in and neutral control of governments for companies operating globally. While intervieing most of the companies into SaaS space, including MS, when I asked the same question about control of parent country, they all refused to answer, This shows..things are fishy. Swapnil -- Swapnil Bhartiya http://ybfree.blogspot.com/ Mobile: 09910956518 === I use Free Software, what do you use? === ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Thursday 02 October 2008 00:19:51 Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: I quite agree with RMS. When we work locally at least data is with us. Cloud computing followed by SaaS is a dangerous stuff. There can I am not saying that I disagree with RMS about the software freedom dangers of cloud computing in the hand of proprietary companies. What I am disagreeing is with the FOSS world not attempting to even touch the technology because the closed source business model is the only one we see. The technology is really attractive, and there is no doubt that if the right FOSS business model is found, it would benefit a lot of people without compromising the software freedom that we have today. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Swapnil Bhartiya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is awaiting. As much as I respect RMS, he does have a habit of condemning things without suggesting an alternative. I need my data to be available everywhere. Not only that, I need my data to be processable everywhere as well. When I switch machines, the UI should change as little as possible and the data should not change at all! Without complicated software installation/importing/exporting steps! That's the problem that web2.0 / cloud computing solves. If someone could come up with a viable free solution for it then people will happily switch. -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I am disagreeing is with the FOSS world not attempting to even touch the technology because the closed source business model is the only one we see. The technology is really attractive, and there is no doubt that if the right FOSS business model is found, it would benefit a lot of people without compromising the software freedom that we have today. Exactly. Maybe opening up the data storage and exchange formats is part of the key. For example, gmail allows pop/smtp access, which means that your data is not be locked inside the gmail jail, even if the software is not free. Does that make it more acceptable than, say, hotmail? -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
Hi all, Interesting discussion. You might want to have a look at Project Caroline. Its an open platform which will let anyone host their own SaaS platform, does not lock-in into any particular technology or language or vendor, its source code is completely open and follows open standards. http://research.sun.com/projects/caroline/ On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I am disagreeing is with the FOSS world not attempting to even touch the technology because the closed source business model is the only one we see. The technology is really attractive, and there is no doubt that if the right FOSS business model is found, it would benefit a lot of people without compromising the software freedom that we have today. Exactly. Maybe opening up the data storage and exchange formats is part of the key. For example, gmail allows pop/smtp access, which means that your data is not be locked inside the gmail jail, even if the software is not free. Does that make it more acceptable than, say, hotmail? -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ -- Angad Singh http://blogs.sun.com/angad Sun Campus Ambassador Tech Lead ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
