Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-13 Thread मनीष
 Dear friends
  If some body has problem to my some tinny short
 cut words i will  make up this words in my next malling I had only
 objection to putting this words by Mr Kenneth that  I do not think
 that you will be successful unless you learn
 to spell better: how he can rate my successiveness ? I was  more
 happy if he suggested  that i should be avoided such type of words.
  But still, instead of
 this I will be more thankful if you will  put up your opinion on my
 queries.


What Kenneth meant, I am sure, was that you would be more successful
_in getting your queries answered_.  You got him wrong.

-- 
Manish

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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-13 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves

On 13-Nov-07, at 1:32 PM, मनीष wrote:

 this I will be more thankful if you will  put up your opinion on my
 queries.


 What Kenneth meant, I am sure, was that you would be more successful
 _in getting your queries answered_.  You got him wrong.

actually he got me right. If I have learnt only one thing in my  
interactions on international foss mailing lists, it is the  
importance of accuracy and precision in language. Look at the replies  
given in lists by core developers of practically any project. They  
use full sentences, carefully crafted and precise. They devote  
paragraphs to answers where I have been in the habit of using  
incomplete phrases. They use capitals in the places where capitals  
should be used - I and not i. I believe this reflects the accuracy  
and precision of the language they use in coding. And in commenting  
code. Laziness is an important characteristic of a good programmer -  
but that is creative laziness - the willingness to do a huge amount  
of work to avoid writing an extra line of code. The laziness behind  
using 'u' instead of 'you' is not that creative laziness - it is  
sloppiness, which manifests itself in innumerable typos in code. The  
same sloppiness and disregard of the rules of language that manifests  
itself in sms-speak, will manifest itself in the quality of code that  
person produces. And if a person respects language and takes pride in  
using it with accuracy and precision - that will reflect in his code.  
And he will also get his queries promptly attended to ...


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-13 Thread Tanveer Singh
On Nov 13, 2007 3:03 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 13-Nov-07, at 1:32 PM, मनीष wrote:

  this I will be more thankful if you will  put up your opinion on my
  queries.
 
 
  What Kenneth meant, I am sure, was that you would be more successful
  _in getting your queries answered_.  You got him wrong.

 actually he got me right. If I have learnt only one thing in my
 interactions on international foss mailing lists, it is the
 importance of accuracy and precision in language. Look at the replies
 given in lists by core developers of practically any project. They
 use full sentences, carefully crafted and precise. They devote
 paragraphs to answers where I have been in the habit of using
 incomplete phrases. They use capitals in the places where capitals
 should be used - I and not i. I believe this reflects the accuracy
 and precision of the language they use in coding. And in commenting
 code. Laziness is an important characteristic of a good programmer -
 but that is creative laziness - the willingness to do a huge amount
 of work to avoid writing an extra line of code. The laziness behind
 using 'u' instead of 'you' is not that creative laziness - it is
 sloppiness, which manifests itself in innumerable typos in code. The
 same sloppiness and disregard of the rules of language that manifests
 itself in sms-speak, will manifest itself in the quality of code that
 person produces. And if a person respects language and takes pride in
 using it with accuracy and precision - that will reflect in his code.
 And he will also get his queries promptly attended to ...
Very well said. As one of the moderators of a large community, I get
so many messages asking
Why don't you allow sms lingo, etc., etc.,. Sometimes I get
y dnt u llow sms. i fin dis ful eng tipi tuff
I wish people understood the importance of good language in written
communication.
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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-13 Thread Mahesh T. Pai
Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 exim ?

+1


 it will give you a much better feature matrix, a more robust security 
 model and fantastic functionality and flexibility when you need it 
 without the overhead of sendmails complex setup and management cruft.


And from v. 4.*, exim's configuration files can be split. Split
configuration is an option. Can be a convenience to manage huge and
unweildy systems.

-- 
 Mahesh T. Pai  http://paivakil.blogspot.com/
TRUTH,  n.   An   ingenious  compound  of  desirability  and
  appearance.   Discovery of  truth is  the sole  purpose of
  philosophy, which  is the  most ancient occupation  of the
  human  mind  and has  a  fair  prospect  of existing  with
  increasing activity to the end of time.


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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread rajnish kumar
On Nov 11, 2007 11:32 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 12-Nov-07, at 12:56 PM, balwant singh wrote:

  Yes he is right, the person who is showing his courage by asking a
  question should be replied properly.

 it was replied properly - or can you suggest a better reply?

  He should feel that we are
  advising him not doing leg pulling.

 where is the leg pulling? If you use sms speak on foss mailing lists,
 you will not get answers to your questions. People will not respect
 you if you dont observe netiquette.

This is my personal opinion.

 your opinion is wrong


 --
 regards

 Kenneth Gonsalves
 Associate, NRC-FOSS
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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I think we have to try to resolve issue's if any one in trouble
instead of leg pulling and this is not the serious issue whether he is
using abbreviation or complete words.
As per my opinion --

I recently moved a sizeable system from qmail to postfix.  While qmail
is a fine MTA, we were running into its limitations.  The main
objection I have to it is that it's stagnant.  The last official
release was over 10 years ago, and any advances in MTA technology since
then has to be implemented as a patch.  This includes SMTP AUTH, SSL,
SQL aliasing, and many of the common anti-spam tactics.  After a
while, the whole thing gets quite unwieldy, especially when you have
conflicting patches.  We also had large problems with qmail's
everything goes in the queue architecture.  A vanilla qmail install
accepts every mail that is sent to it, even those that are to
non-existent users.  No mail is rejected at smtp time.  This means
that the queue is always full of bounce message to non-existent
senders.  Also, when you get hit with a mail bomb, the messages in the
queue end up delaying new incoming messages, even after the mail-bomb
has stopped.  Performance on the queue disk can become a substantial
bottleneck.  Still, it's a fine mailer once you get your mind around
how it works.

We switched to postfix primarily because I wanted a MTA that was under
active development and qmail has limited support for LMTP.  Postfix
does have it's quirks, and Wietse is sometimes less than willing to
add new things to postfix that people want.  However, they do
eventually get added, once Wietse comes up with a system that he
likes.

with regds
rajnish

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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves

On 12-Nov-07, at 2:10 PM, rajnish kumar wrote:

 active development and qmail has limited support for LMTP.  Postfix
 does have it's quirks, and Wietse is sometimes less than willing to
 add new things to postfix that people want.  However, they do
 eventually get added, once Wietse comes up with a system that he
 likes.

postfix - unlike qmail - is foss, even if Wietse doesnt do something,  
one can tweak it oneself.


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Raj Mathur
On Monday 12 November 2007 12:32, Sumit Kumar wrote:
 [snip]
 Dear Mr Kenneth Gonsalves
   If any one have some
 queries or will have some sharing info that could not be share in
 ilugd it's only because of, like you people. I don't know why you
 people taking more interest to pulling the leg instead try to help.
 And for your kind information you are not my teacher or guardian or
 my ideal to decide that whether i will be successful or not. so I
 will be advice you don't try to be smart and keep your opinion limit
 at your own.

If you're participating in a FREE forum on which you ask for help, at no 
charge, is it too much to ask that you adhere to the rules of that 
forum?  Please read the mailing list guidelines on SMS- and l33t-sp33k 
usage in this mailing list.

Apart from the guidelines, I personally avoid answering any questions 
asked by someone who can't be bothered to spell out the question in a 
form that makes it easy for me to read.  If you're writing only for 
yourself, please go ahead and use whatever language you choose.  If you 
are writing for other people to read, please make it easy for them to 
read it.

f u cn rd ths u r 2 df 2 nn fr hng @ wst lk!!!11

Regards,

-- Raju
-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
 Freedom in Technology  Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
PsyTrance  Chill: http://schizoid.in/   ||   It is the mind that moves

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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Sriram J
On 11/12/07, Sumit Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Dear Mr Kenneth Gonsalves
  If any one have some
 queries or will have some sharing info that could not be share in
 ilugd it's only because of, like you people. I don't know why you
 people taking more interest to pulling the leg instead try to help.
 And for your kind information you are not my teacher or guardian or my
 ideal to decide that whether i will be successful or not. so I will be
 advice you don't try to be smart and keep your opinion limit at your
 own.


1. What language you ask your question in is  very important.
2. the above text  is not easily understandable and is more hilarious than
helpful.
I will be advice is a case in point.
3. Please read your mail once after typing or show it to some one else so
your potential audience is not
inconvenienced
4. Kenneth is right in saying that unless you improve your English your
search for answers is not going to be easy.

One final point he did not say RTFM or ask you to google so there is no need
to flame him.
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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Raj Mathur
On Monday 12 November 2007 16:31, Sriram J wrote:
 [snip]
 4. Kenneth is right in saying that unless you improve your English
 your search for answers is not going to be easy.

I'd disagree here -- my primary complaint is with SMS-spelling, not with 
the quality of English.  I'm only a spelling Nazi, not a Grammar- or 
Language-Nazi :)

If your English is bad, it doesn't matter -- please post to the list and 
your message will be read and hopefully answered.  However, whether you 
use good English or bad, please do NOT use ``u'' for ``you'' and 
similar abbreviations -- that will just put off people who may 
otherwise want to read your mail.

Lack of familiarity with a language is not the same as laziness when 
typing a mail in.  WTH, explain your problem in Hindi if you want, just 
explain properly ;)

Regards,

-- Raju
-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
 Freedom in Technology  Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
PsyTrance  Chill: http://schizoid.in/   ||   It is the mind that moves

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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Kazim Zaidi
On 12/11/2007, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]

 Lack of familiarity with a language is not the same as laziness when
 typing a mail in.  WTH, explain your problem in Hindi if you want, just
 explain properly ;)

 Regards,
 -- Raju

The problem is, that people who've not been familiar to linux mailing lists
and IRC rooms, often consider replacing you with u as the smartest  way
to talk.
But communities like LUGs and developer-groups hate the usage of l33t-sp33k.
Instead of ignoring or pulling legs, a simple reminder about correct usage
of
english and a link to Usage guidelines should be enough in most of the
cases.

- Kazim Zaidi
Blog: http://tuxplayground.blogspot.com
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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Karanbir Singh
Sumit Kumar wrote:
 hello everyone .
 I just wanna have ur opinion about what would u use as MTA if u were
 an ISP with about 15000 users. In respect of QMAIL and POSTFIX.
 

exim ?

it will give you a much better feature matrix, a more robust security 
model and fantastic functionality and flexibility when you need it 
without the overhead of sendmails complex setup and management cruft.

If you havent already, take a look at Exim. seriously.

-- 
Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/  : [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves

On 12-Nov-07, at 7:47 PM, Raj Mathur wrote:

 [snip]
 4. Kenneth is right in saying that unless you improve your English
 your search for answers is not going to be easy.

 I'd disagree here -- my primary complaint is with SMS-spelling, not  
 with
 the quality of English.  I'm only a spelling Nazi, not a Grammar- or
 Language-Nazi :)

I agree - if you check international mailing lists, you find lots of  
grammatical mistakes from non-english speakers. No one bothers about  
it unless the meaning is not clear. And even then, there are no  
flames, only an attempt to get at the meaning. And, when I see SMS  
stuff on an international list, I know that the poster is from India.  
And not only on mailing lists - I have had a job application saying  
'i wan 2 work in ur valble institution, plz grant me interview'. (He  
got the job, but only after his application was reworded appropriately).


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves

On 12-Nov-07, at 9:21 PM, Kazim Zaidi wrote:

 Instead of ignoring or pulling legs

I resent that. I did *not* ignore - I gave a comprehensive answer to  
the question. I also did not 'pull legs' - kindly look up the  
definition of leg pulling before making statements like this.


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread rajnish kumar
On Nov 13, 2007 7:19 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 12-Nov-07, at 9:21 PM, Kazim Zaidi wrote:

  Instead of ignoring or pulling legs

 I resent that. I did *not* ignore - I gave a comprehensive answer to
 the question. I also did not 'pull legs' - kindly look up the
 definition of leg pulling before making statements like this.


 --
 regards

 Kenneth Gonsalves
 Associate, NRC-FOSS
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Dear friends
 If some body has problem to my some tinny short
cut words i will  make up this words in my next malling I had only
objection to putting this words by Mr Kenneth that  I do not think
that you will be successful unless you learn
to spell better: how he can rate my successiveness ? I was  more
happy if he suggested  that i should be avoided such type of words.
 But still, instead of
this I will be more thankful if you will  put up your opinion on my
queries.

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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-12 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves

On 13-Nov-07, at 1:03 PM, rajnish kumar wrote:

 this I will be more thankful if you will  put up your opinion on my
 queries.

to repeat: qmail is not free software. Postfix is free software.  
Therefore use postfix as it is guaranteed to always be maintained and  
upgraded, it has developer support and is far easier to use.


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-11 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves

On 11-Nov-07, at 6:32 PM, Sumit Kumar wrote:

 I just wanna have ur opinion about what would u use as MTA if u were
 an ISP with about 15000 users. In respect of QMAIL and POSTFIX.

there is no contest - Postfix. Afaik, qmail is not free software.  
However, I do not think that you will be successful unless you learn  
to spell better:

s/u/you/
s/ur/your/
s/wanna/want to/


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-11 Thread Sumit Kumar
On Nov 11, 2007 4:28 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 11-Nov-07, at 6:32 PM, Sumit Kumar wrote:

  I just wanna have ur opinion about what would u use as MTA if u were
  an ISP with about 15000 users. In respect of QMAIL and POSTFIX.

 there is no contest - Postfix. Afaik, qmail is not free software.
 However, I do not think that you will be successful unless you learn
 to spell better:

 s/u/you/
 s/ur/your/
 s/wanna/want to/


 --
 regards

 Kenneth Gonsalves
 Associate, NRC-FOSS
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Dear Mr Kenneth Gonsalves
  If any one have some
queries or will have some sharing info that could not be share in
ilugd it's only because of, like you people. I don't know why you
people taking more interest to pulling the leg instead try to help.
And for your kind information you are not my teacher or guardian or my
ideal to decide that whether i will be successful or not. so I will be
advice you don't try to be smart and keep your opinion limit at your
own.

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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-11 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves

On 12-Nov-07, at 12:32 PM, Sumit Kumar wrote:

   If any one have some
 queries or will have some sharing info that could not be share in
 ilugd it's only because of, like you people. I don't know why you
 people taking more interest to pulling the leg instead try to help.

1. I answered your question.

 And for your kind information you are not my teacher or guardian or my
 ideal to decide that whether i will be successful or not. so I will be
 advice you don't try to be smart and keep your opinion limit at your
 own.

2. If you do not want to take my advice, please continue to use SMS  
abbreviations in your mails to this and other Open Source lists and  
see what happens.

-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-11 Thread balwant singh
On Nov 12, 2007 12:32 PM, Sumit Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Nov 11, 2007 4:28 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On 11-Nov-07, at 6:32 PM, Sumit Kumar wrote:
 
   I just wanna have ur opinion about what would u use as MTA if u were
   an ISP with about 15000 users. In respect of QMAIL and POSTFIX.
 
  there is no contest - Postfix. Afaik, qmail is not free software.
  However, I do not think that you will be successful unless you learn
  to spell better:
 
  s/u/you/
  s/ur/your/
  s/wanna/want to/
 
 
  --
  regards
 
  Kenneth Gonsalves
  Associate, NRC-FOSS
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
 
 
 
 
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 Dear Mr Kenneth Gonsalves
   If any one have some
 queries or will have some sharing info that could not be share in
 ilugd it's only because of, like you people. I don't know why you
 people taking more interest to pulling the leg instead try to help.
 And for your kind information you are not my teacher or guardian or my
 ideal to decide that whether i will be successful or not. so I will be
 advice you don't try to be smart and keep your opinion limit at your
 own.

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Yes he is right, the person who is showing his courage by asking a
question should be replied properly.  He should feel that we are
advising him not doing leg pulling.  This is my personal opinion.

-- 
With Best Wishes
Balwant

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Re: [ilugd] best MTA for an ISP

2007-11-11 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves

On 12-Nov-07, at 12:56 PM, balwant singh wrote:

 Yes he is right, the person who is showing his courage by asking a
 question should be replied properly.

it was replied properly - or can you suggest a better reply?

 He should feel that we are
 advising him not doing leg pulling.

where is the leg pulling? If you use sms speak on foss mailing lists,  
you will not get answers to your questions. People will not respect  
you if you dont observe netiquette.

   This is my personal opinion.

your opinion is wrong


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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