Re: Digest for imaclist@googlegroups.com - 5 Messages in 2 Topics
• MacKeeper info [4 Updates] Alex Sciortino zeosr...@gmail.com Jan 21 04:17PM -0700 Beverly Woods macli...@beverlywoods.net Jan 22 08:11PM -0500 On 1/21/12 6:07 PM, Cap'n Bob McBurney wrote: I want to buy software to use as update and one that has an unistaller included. I'm running OS X 10.6 on a Mac Mini 1.86, core 2 duo, and 2 GB Ram. Are there any suggestions to software that would be good and stable. I have thought about Mac Keeper and Clean- My-Mac. Any other suggestions or comments on this? CapnMac I would not recommend MacKeeper at all. I have removed it from clients' computers where it caused significant problems. I am not clear from your post what exactly it is you want your software to do? Beverly I agree MacKeeper is not something that you want to have on your Mac. Kim kimhan...@gmail.com Jan 22 11:21PM -0500 Did the software, MacKeeper, cause problems or did the users cause problems? If you are aware of problems I should be looking out for I would love to know what the are. MacKeeper has been very dependable for me in uninstalling software, which is what I believe he was asking about. Kim Ashgrove salum...@gmail.com Jan 22 10:44PM -0800 I want to buy software to use as update and one that has an unistaller included. I'm running OS X 10.6 on a Mac Mini 1.86, core 2 duo, and 2 GB Ram. Are there any suggestions to software that would be good and stable. I have thought about Mac Keeper and Clean- My-Mac. Any other suggestions or comments on this? I'm not clear what do you want to update. As for uninstalling, AppZapper has been working great for me since Tiger, all the way to Lion. It has a very simple, drag-and-drop interface, and has never given me a moment of grief in all these years. Even better, you can download it and try it I think five or six times before you buy it. HTH, Felix I have used AppZapper for many years, one of the best Share-Ware's I've ever purchased. However if you install MacKeeper and use AppZapper to remove MacKeeper there will be a lot of pieces of MacKeeper left in the bowels of the Mac. However MacKeeper has an uninstaller and if you look closely it can be found. Cheers Harry (`-''-/).___ ..- -''`.. _ ( 6_ 6 )`-.( ``-._.-`) (_Y_.)'._ ) `._ `.'``-..-' ` `_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' ,-'' ,' (((.-' fl -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Mackeeper Info Thread
On 1/21/12 6:07 PM, Cap'n Bob McBurney wrote: I want to buy software to use as update and one that has an unistaller included. I'm running OS X 10.6 on a Mac Mini 1.86, core 2 duo, and 2 GB Ram. Are there any suggestions to software that would be good and stable. I have thought about Mac Keeper and Clean-My-Mac. Any other suggestions or comments on this? CapnMac I would not recommend MacKeeper at all. I have removed it from clients' computers where it caused significant problems. I am not clear from your post what exactly it is you want your software to do? Beverly What I want to do is have a reliable and stable updater for 3rd party software that Apple Software does not update. Second, I want software that will fully uninstall software I no longer use. Sorry that I didn't make my request clear. CapnMac -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
I still recommend MacKeeper until I hear what problems Beverly has encountered. It will, if you ask it to, give you a list of apps that need updating and provides and provides one click access to download the updates. It will also list applications from which you can then choose to uninstall. it will also watch and if it sees you drag an application to the trash it will hop in and ask if you want mackeeper's wise uninstaller to uninstall that app. It has lots of other bells and whistles, duplicate finders, encryption, etc. I really wish Beverly would give more information about problems she encountered. meanwhile here is a list of uninstallers http://en.softonic.com/mac/uninstallers-cleaners Heres a page about a 3rd party software updater called MacFresh http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-automatically-keep-your-macs-apps-fresh-updated/ Kim On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Cap'n Bob McBurney rcapn...@comcast.netwrote: On 1/21/12 6:07 PM, Cap'n Bob McBurney wrote: I want to buy software to use as update and one that has an unistaller included. I'm running OS X 10.6 on a Mac Mini 1.86, core 2 duo, and 2 GB Ram. Are there any suggestions to software that would be good and stable. I have thought about Mac Keeper and Clean-My-Mac. Any other suggestions or comments on this? CapnMac I would not recommend MacKeeper at all. I have removed it from clients' computers where it caused significant problems. I am not clear from your post what exactly it is you want your software to do? Beverly What I want to do is have a reliable and stable updater for 3rd party software that Apple Software does not update. Second, I want software that will fully uninstall software I no longer use. Sorry that I didn't make my request clear. CapnMac -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
At 12:43 PM -0500 1/23/2012, Kim wrote: Kim... 1) please keep in mind that these LEM lists *require* that you post in PLAIN text. Your use of all but unreadable HTML blue whatevertheheck font that be is unacceptable. 2) While we don't enforce bottom posting on these LEM lists, it is *extremely* bad netiquette to top post on an already bottom posted message. Emails should NEVER had gotos in them. [Kim's HTML and fonting stripped] I still recommend MacKeeper until I hear what problems Beverly has encountered. Over the past year or two, I've received more than a dozen complaints regarding MacKeeper. Everything from it skipping files it should have deleted, deleting files that it shouldn't have, to it crashing, etc. And over the years, MacKeeper HAS NOT BEEN FIXED. Bottom line: MacKeeper is pretty much a poster child for over-advertized suckerware. It should not be near any Mac. Period. Beverly's polite opin, frankly, is simply the tip of the iceberg... Of course, YMMV. Cap'n Bob McBurney wrote: What I want to do is have a reliable and stable updater for 3rd party software that Apple Software does not update. No such reliable beast. (see below). I want software that will fully uninstall software I no longer use. No such reliable beast. See, here's the problem... Apps do things in different ways. And not all developers follow Apple's guidelines as strictly as they should. So a product that claims that it can manage all your 3rd party installs or uninstalls is simply LYING to you. At best, it can only do so based on those individual apps that for which it was designed *and* for which it has been recently updated. At worst, if it contains bugs, it can damage your system by doing an incomplete install or uninstall. (ObQuibble: To support said uninstalls, the developer must hack into those apps to see what's what. Unless they have permission from the app's author, that's illegal!). Most apps include their own mechanism to apply updates (eg: Sparkle). Many are also beginning to offer updates via Apple's app store system. So just... let the app check for updates when you launch it, then do whatever it tells you to do. Easypeasy. As for uninstalling... Most app uninstalls are trivial. Toss the app. Toss the prefs. Done. Apps that are any more complicated than that usually provide an uninstaller function or app. No big deal. And an uninstaller provided by the app's developer is 100% more reliable than some 3rd party general uninstaller that may or may not have been updated and may or may not be buggy... fwiw, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 12:43 PM -0500 1/23/2012, Kim wrote: Kim... 1) please keep in mind that these LEM lists *require* that you post in PLAIN text. Your use of all but unreadable HTML blue whatevertheheck font that be is unacceptable. 2) While we don't enforce bottom posting on these LEM lists, it is *extremely* bad netiquette to top post on an already bottom posted message. Emails should NEVER had gotos in them. [Kim's HTML and fonting stripped] I still recommend MacKeeper until I hear what problems Beverly has encountered. Over the past year or two, I've received more than a dozen complaints regarding MacKeeper. Everything from it skipping files it should have deleted, deleting files that it shouldn't have, to it crashing, etc. And over the years, MacKeeper HAS NOT BEEN FIXED. Bottom line: MacKeeper is pretty much a poster child for over-advertized suckerware. It should not be near any Mac. Period. Beverly's polite opin, frankly, is simply the tip of the iceberg... Of course, YMMV. Cap'n Bob McBurney wrote: What I want to do is have a reliable and stable updater for 3rd party software that Apple Software does not update. No such reliable beast. (see below). I want software that will fully uninstall software I no longer use. No such reliable beast. See, here's the problem... Apps do things in different ways. And not all developers follow Apple's guidelines as strictly as they should. So a product that claims that it can manage all your 3rd party installs or uninstalls is simply LYING to you. At best, it can only do so based on those individual apps that for which it was designed *and* for which it has been recently updated. At worst, if it contains bugs, it can damage your system by doing an incomplete install or uninstall. (ObQuibble: To support said uninstalls, the developer must hack into those apps to see what's what. Unless they have permission from the app's author, that's illegal!). Most apps include their own mechanism to apply updates (eg: Sparkle). Many are also beginning to offer updates via Apple's app store system. So just... let the app check for updates when you launch it, then do whatever it tells you to do. Easypeasy. As for uninstalling... Most app uninstalls are trivial. Toss the app. Toss the prefs. Done. Apps that are any more complicated than that usually provide an uninstaller function or app. No big deal. And an uninstaller provided by the app's developer is 100% more reliable than some 3rd party general uninstaller that may or may not have been updated and may or may not be buggy... fwiw, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. Dan : Gotta love bureaucrats with nothing to offer! Keep up the good work! By the way is there no rule on supercilious signatures? Not even when they are very pale grey? Kim -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/**list.shtmlhttp://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtmland our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/**lists/netiquette.shtmlhttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.comimaclist%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/imaclist http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
On Jan 23, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Kim wrote: Gotta love bureaucrats with nothing to offer! Dan just gave you a very concise explanation as to why this software a) doesn't work well and b) isn't likely to. There are, as a rule, only five places to look for program remnants on a Mac: (Adobe and Microsoft apps routinely violate these rules, but both offer dedicated updaters and uninstall programs) 1) /Applications for the application itself 2) /Library/Application Support -- where system wide application things go 3) /Library/Preferences -- system wide pref files for stuff 4) /Users/your user name/Application Support 5) /Users/your user name/Preferences The vast majority of applications will only have files in 1 and 5. MOST applications these days offer either automated support checks (off the top of my head among programs I use:BBEdit, VirtualBox, Firefox, Thunderbird, Graphic Converter, Adobe Design Suite and Acrobat and Microsoft Office, DBVisualizer..and those are just the ones in the dock.) No third party program can possibly keep track, and a program that attaches itself to your trash is well able to bork your system good. Keep up the good work! By the way is there no rule on supercilious signatures? Not even when they are very pale grey? Kim Dan's signature is only pale gray because your email client renders it as such. His emails are always sent in plain text -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Digest for imaclist@googlegroups.com - 5 Messages in 2 Topics
AppZapper's info and strong point is that it removes all material associated with an app. I too have used it for years. On Jan 23, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Harry A. Freeman wrote: However if you install MacKeeper and use AppZapper to remove MacKeeper there will be a lot of pieces of MacKeeper left in the bowels of the Mac. -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
How about using a search find and spotlight I've used both successfully. On Jan 23, 2012, at 5:33 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: There are, as a rule, only five places to look for program remnants on a Mac: -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
As Kim requested, here are some of the problems I have with MacKeeper: Until recently, MacKeeper installed WINE. I was asked to fix a Mac that was running at a crawl, with frequent SBBOD, etc. Problem turned out to be that WINE had taken over most of the CPU. This appears to have been a common problem with MacKeeper, and users did not have any idea that MacKeeper installed WINE or what that means. Nor is it trivial for an unhappy purchaser to discover the problem and remove the offending emulator. They now have a new version without WINE. But really - something called MacKeeper that needed WINE to run? Seriously?? And then there's the marketing of it and the way the company takes advantage of people, misleads them, etc. See for instance these articles: http://applehelpwriter.com/2011/09/21/how-to-uninstall-mackeeper-malware/ http://themacfeed.com/2011/06/17/mackeeper-a-rather-slimy-tale/ http://ashmug.com/2011/09/mackeeper-is-not-a-keeper/ Ick. Beverly -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
At 5:35 PM -0500 1/23/2012, Amato Michael J. wrote (in the subject broken thread fork): AppZapper's info and strong point is that it removes all material associated with an app. Insert here all the stuff I said about MacKeeper in the other thread fork. AppZapper ONLY works on the apps it actually knows of, has been updated for, or that *only* follow the simple Apple guidelines. Beyond that, AppZapper is a FAIL - and should NOT be depended upon. At 6:19 PM -0500 1/23/2012, Amato Michael J. wrote: How about using a search find and spotlight I've used both successfully. Splotchlight can be useful to find the ancillary files. But you cannot depend on it to find 'em all ... not every file you need to trash will contain the app's name or domain's name or company's name, or be set so it can be seen by the user, plus quite often people exclude certain folders and such from its index... Bottom line: There is NO substitute for putting some thought into it. And always try the product's uninstall feature first. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
On Jan 23, 2012, at 1:07 PM, Dan wrote: Cap'n Bob McBurney wrote: What I want to do is have a reliable and stable updater for 3rd party software that Apple Software does not update. No such reliable beast. (see below). I want software that will fully uninstall software I no longer use. No such reliable beast. Debian GNU/Linux and and its derivatives (e.g. Ubuntu) have this feature. Apple is free to use dpkg and APT, but they opted not to on account of the GPL. (ObQuibble: To support said uninstalls, the developer must hack into those apps to see what's what. Unless they have permission from the app's author, that's illegal!). What do you mean by hack into, and how is it illegal? Could I have been sued because I used ResEdit to hack into the Finder and modify the Trash icons and change Empty Trash to Flush Toilet? Is using the 'strings' program illegal? Last I checked, reverse-engineering for the purpose of interoperability was fair use. I agree that no Mac application claiming to be a universal updater/uninstaller should be trusted, but its goal is certainly one of interoperability. Authors don't get automatic dictatorial control over everyone who comes into contact with their works. Josh P.S.: If you reply, consider changing the Subject field. -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
On Jan 23, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Dan wrote: At 6:19 PM -0500 1/23/2012, Amato Michael J. wrote: How about using a search find and spotlight I've used both successfully. Just make sure you search for the app name, publisher's name (keep it simple), the company domain name (pref files (should) use the domain name in reverse order (ie. com.apple)). Splotchlight can be useful to find the ancillary files. But you cannot depend on it to find 'em all ... not every file you need to trash will contain the app's name or domain's name or company's name, or be set so it can be seen by the user, plus quite often people exclude certain folders and such from its index... Bottom line: There is NO substitute for putting some thought into it. And always try the product's uninstall feature first. On the other hand if you check the usual places (Applications, prefs, App Support, etc) and delete those files in the vast majority of cases what is left, if anything, will be a few trivial files. Meaning that it is only going to be taking up a small amount of space. -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Re: Mackeeper Info Thread
As for me and my iMac... AppCleaner has been great for removing software: http://www.freemacsoft.net/ AppFresh has been great for updating software: http://metaquark.de/appfresh Best Regards, Patrick B -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
Copyright 101 (was Re: Mackeeper Info Thread)
At 7:47 PM -0800 1/23/2012, Joshua Juran wrote: (ObQuibble: To support said uninstalls, the developer must hack into those apps to see what's what. Unless they have permission from the app's author, that's illegal!). What do you mean by hack into, and how is it illegal? Most licenses prohibit product disassembly. Could I have been sued because I used ResEdit to hack into the Finder and modify the Trash icons and change Empty Trash to Flush Toilet? Technically, yes. Most licenses, Apple's included, prohibit the creation of a derivative work without the copyright owner's explicit permission. When you modified (hacked) Finder, you created a derivative work without being licensed to do so. Aren't you lucky that less-evil companies like Apple aren't dedicated to hunting your a** down? Last I checked, reverse-engineering for the purpose of interoperability was fair use. Reverse engineering is the process of examining the input and output of a thing, then producing a NEW thing that offers the same output from the same input. It DOES NOT mean digging into the guts of a thing then simply making modifications (hacks) therein. That would be the act of creating a derivative work -- which is NOT fair use (see above). Authors don't get automatic dictatorial control over everyone who comes into contact with their works. ROFLMAO. :) - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of the iMac Group, a group for those using Apple iMacs and eMacs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/imac/list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to imaclist@googlegroups.com To leave this group, send email to imaclist+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/imaclist
