Re[2]: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
Hello Peter, Tuesday, July 08, 2003, 4:39:52 PM, Peter Spiess wrote: PS Alex, PS I wish I had some time for some real critiquing like I did last week... In PS your meta-data page, all of the tabs seem to be showing up as some PS international characterI've tried multiple browsers on multiple PS operating systems and get the same result. Oh, yes. That is strange. Thank you for the warning. PS The one thing that I am thrilled to see and hope my assumptions are going to PS remain correct is that you can specify a datasource per class!!! That is PS huge! I was counting on JBoss to do that - I don't think anyone else does - PS at least not free ones. We have a tremendous need to do that (and thus PS relationships across datasources). I am glad you like it but the phrase in the parenthesis... I use LEFT JOIN by default to fetch related objects and the statement is executed against one datasource, of course. So, it doesn't work at the moment. It is still be implemented. Thanks for the feedback! alex PS I hope to delve deeper into JBossDO shortly. PS Peter -Original Message- From: Alexey Loubyansky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 1:58 PM To: jboss-user Subject: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site http://jboss.org/index.html?module=htmlop=userdisplayid=deve lopers/projects/jboss/jbossdo I am asked directly about JBossDO. So I decided to post some stuff on the site even before the DR2 instead of answering personally to everyone. The pages are almost just written. But don't hold your impressions in! ;) I would really appreciate severe critique! Thanks, alex --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
Hi, I was already wondering why to use JDO when someone is already using EJBs. This feature confuses me more ! Make a POJO persistant archieve the same goal as an Entity bean ? so why bother : I do not see any other advantages than the speed of developpement (no EJB overhead, just POJO). Back to a more technical question : to make something persistent, you should define a way to store it in a secure place. To work at a field level (for the queries for example), you should store the object's fields in an independant way. Question is : what storage layer to use and where to declare all this (fields mapping and relative stuff)? I guess a database is the layer and a config file does the mapping (the page that is still under construction) but (database + mapping configuration files) = ejb ... Ionel --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
I think the confusion arises where people people assume EJB's were designed for object persistance. They weren't, and in fact the persistance stuff was probably added more as an afterthought than anything. The technology emerged at the time where distributed object frameworks like CORBA and DCOM were getting trendy. Java already had RMI, but Microsoft was adding MTS features to DCOM and CORBA had all those bolt on services. Hence the java community received EJB, the java equivalent of the fusion of ideas that were being developed at the time. EJB's were *never* designed for fine grained access to a relational database. The vision of a EJB was a server side component that behaved in an object oriented way, but had clever things like pooling and transactions thrown at it so that the server could potentially handle millions of concurrent users. However, as CMP was the only standard that offered a way of doing O/R mapping, naturally a lot of people started using it for this job. Now we have JDO which is a technology specifically designed to map between java code and persistence engines. It doesn't do anything else. That makes it potentially much more efficient at the job and enables java programmers more freedom with things like inheritance. So why use JDO's? They are lightweight, they are designed for the problem you are trying to solve, they have an AOP like philosophy and the integrate nicely with OO inheritance. I struggled with this question for some time and tried to find reasons why *not* to use JDO over CMP, but I couldn't find any. Unless of course you consider that JDO is not yet as mature as CMP and the open source projects supporting JDO are still a little thin on the ground. On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 08:27, Ionel Gardais wrote: Hi, I was already wondering why to use JDO when someone is already using EJBs. This feature confuses me more ! Make a POJO persistant archieve the same goal as an Entity bean ? so why bother : I do not see any other advantages than the speed of developpement (no EJB overhead, just POJO). Back to a more technical question : to make something persistent, you should define a way to store it in a secure place. To work at a field level (for the queries for example), you should store the object's fields in an independant way. Question is : what storage layer to use and where to declare all this (fields mapping and relative stuff)? I guess a database is the layer and a config file does the mapping (the page that is still under construction) but (database + mapping configuration files) = ejb ... Ionel --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user -- Peter Beck BEng (hons) MIEE - Managing Director, Electrostrata Ltd. http://www.electrostrata.com --+-+-- Experts in e-business and e-commerce --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
Enhancement at deployment time I have one word: wow! Yet again JBoss kicks some backsides with its deployment process. This looks like some great work guys; I can't wait for inheritance and more JDOQL support. :-) On Wed, 2003-07-02 at 18:58, Alexey Loubyansky wrote: http://jboss.org/index.html?module=htmlop=userdisplayid=developers/projects/jboss/jbossdo I am asked directly about JBossDO. So I decided to post some stuff on the site even before the DR2 instead of answering personally to everyone. The pages are almost just written. But don't hold your impressions in! ;) I would really appreciate severe critique! Thanks, alex --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user -- Peter Beck BEng (hons) MIEE - Managing Director, Electrostrata Ltd. http://www.electrostrata.com --+-+-- Experts in e-business and e-commerce --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
Pete Beck wrote: I think the confusion arises where people people assume EJB's were designed for object persistance. They weren't, and in fact the persistance stuff was probably added more as an afterthought than anything. [...] However, as CMP was the only standard that offered a way of doing O/R mapping, naturally a lot of people started using it for this job. [...] Thank you for posting this, as I have not yet learned enough about EJB (or JDO for that matter) to have an opinion on this subject. But it seems that what you suggest is at odds with some of the writings of Marc Fleury. I am trying to reconcile all of these different perspectives somewhat. I wonder if this means that Sun is going to put less emphasis on CMP and encourage that EJBs use JDO BMP ? Erik --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
This one time, at band camp, Erik Price said: EPPete Beck wrote: EP I think the confusion arises where people people assume EJB's were EP designed for object persistance. EP EP They weren't, and in fact the persistance stuff was probably added more EP as an afterthought than anything. ... EP However, as CMP was the only standard that offered a way of doing O/R EP mapping, naturally a lot of people started using it for this job. ... EPThank you for posting this, as I have not yet learned enough about EJB EP(or JDO for that matter) to have an opinion on this subject. But it EPseems that what you suggest is at odds with some of the writings of Marc EPFleury. I am trying to reconcile all of these different perspectives EPsomewhat. I wonder if this means that Sun is going to put less emphasis EPon CMP and encourage that EJBs use JDO BMP ? AFAIK, Sun is not promoting one over the other. It's really a decision to be made by the developer. BMPs could certainly make use of JDO. But, IMHO, CMP and JDO, albeit similar in focus, are each viable alternatives to one another. The real difference is community acceptance. JDO still has a long way to go to catch up to CMP as far as acceptance. Bruce -- perl -e 'print unpack(u30,0G)[EMAIL PROTECTED]5R\F9EG)E=\$\!FFEI+F-O;0\`\`);' --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
Re: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
Erik Price wrote: Thank you for posting this, as I have not yet learned enough about EJB (or JDO for that matter) to have an opinion on this subject. But it seems that what you suggest is at odds with some of the writings of Marc Fleury. I am trying to reconcile all of these different perspectives somewhat. I wonder if this means that Sun is going to put less emphasis on CMP and encourage that EJBs use JDO BMP ? I think people will use JDO within session beans as their persistence layer without any entity beans. BMP entities just have too many performance issues to bother with, and adding JDO won't fix that. What Sun will encourage is a good question, and the answer may not make sense from a practical viewpoint. Personally, I have some reservations about the JDO spec., but then I haven't really looked at it closely since its early public release. I also might be transferring my issues with JAX-B over to it... -danch --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
[JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
http://jboss.org/index.html?module=htmlop=userdisplayid=developers/projects/jboss/jbossdo I am asked directly about JBossDO. So I decided to post some stuff on the site even before the DR2 instead of answering personally to everyone. The pages are almost just written. But don't hold your impressions in! ;) I would really appreciate severe critique! Thanks, alex --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
RE: [JBoss-user] JBossDO page is on the site
Great! -- Heiko W. Rupp EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Consultant Telefon: +49 711 222 992 - 900 Cellent AG Finance SolutionsTelefax: +49 711 222 992 - 999 Calwer Str. 33 D-70173 Stuttgart --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa0016ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01 ___ JBoss-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-user
