RE: JDE vs. VAJ
Daniel, I think you have made your point that you like VAJ, others like me have used it extensively and it does not fit our needs. (I found it slow on my machine 1GHZ/768Meg and there were way more things I disliked about it than liked). This mailing list is an emacs/JDE discussion so I would ask you to please direct your comments to how you would like to see JDE improved including incorporating 'cool' features that other IDE environments have like incremental compile (VAJ), pluggable JVMs (JBuilder) which JDE already supports. We use emacs because it is extensible, available on many platforms, and it is FREE. The JDE add-on makes it a great Java development environment. Next I will have to try ECB to see if I like as much as others do. John Syre C++/C, Java, Perl 206-965-7172 > -- > From: Daniel Hegyi[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:32 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: JDE vs. VAJ > > > > Is the purpose of Emacs and JDE mostly to give a nice environment > > > for those > > > users who don't have much space, speed, and don't have admin > > > rights on their > > > machine? > >In my case, none of the above, > >All the IDE I have tried(Visual Cafe, JBuilder) > >are incredible slower compare to emacs(I have a pIII 850 btw). > >Do not have the editing power than emacs does, > >the emacs key strokes binding does not do it for me. > >They tend to crash often, are memory hugs, > >and I could keep going. > > > >In brief, JDE offers most of the features(or more in some cases) > >of graphical IDE's plus the ability to fully use emacs. > > I use VAJ on my pIII 730. I have 512MB RAM (, lets face it, this is becoming > a standard configuration.) At first I thought that Emacs had a much more > powerful editor than VAJ's. VAJ, however, has many nice features, such as > code completion, syntax coloring, speed bar, etc. Of course, it isn't as > customizable! Nevertheless, the only thing that I really miss is the import > wizard and the multiple clipboards. > > VAJ has incremental compilation, which is incredible! As soon as you make a > compile time mistake and save it, a little red x marks your class in the > speedbar, and all other classes in the package are also marked that have now > also a compile time error due to the changes. VAJ's "minibuffer" shows the > errors as you switch focus between classes. No more explicit compilation. > > VAJ also has a test environment for servlets and EJBs. You don't have to > install a servlet engine. Finally, there are Emacs packages for version > controlling, but VAJ's automatic version controlling is very nice! Not to > mention its debugger. > > Theoretically, VAJ should work on various platforms, since it is Java based. > > > Regards, > Daniel > > P.S. I know that VAJ isn't for free... :) > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com >
Re: JDE vs. VAJ
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:46:55 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Jikes also has an incremental compilation mode that you may want to look > into. > Basically, you run jikes with the list of files you want compiled, and > give it the incremental mode flag. After it has compield the files you > have given it, the process stays alive and attached to stdin and keeps a > bunch of info related to the class heirarchy loaded in memory. When you > have made your changes and are ready to recompile, you just hit enter in > the console you started jikes in and it recompiles whatever needs to be. This is an amazing feature, I didn't realize jikes had this feature! An easy way to hook this up to emacs would be to have emacs tell jikes to recompile each time a Java file is saved. This could use the prj.el file to determine the top directory of a project, and from there all the Java files belonging to that project. You could suddenly have all the files compiled as you press C-x C-s! This should be *much* faster than running the Java compiler, even if this is run within BSH. I noticed jikes is also able to do dependencies on jar files, not only on class files, which is really nice. One issue with this might be the debugging support, as I understand jikes doesn't generate the kind of debugging information needed by JPDA. But this should go away with further development on jikes. Regards, Ovidiu
RE: JDE vs. VAJ
Has anyone taken a look at http://www.jedit.org yet? It appears to be fully extensible in Java (somewhat different than elisp). Drawback? No integrated debugger. Perhaps jswat. -Original Message- From: Daniel Hegyi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 12:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: JDE vs. VAJ > >I use VAJ on my pIII 730. I have 512MB RAM (, lets face it, this is >becoming > >a standard configuration.) At first I thought that Emacs had a much more > >powerful editor than VAJ's. VAJ, however, has many nice features, such as > >code completion, syntax coloring, speed bar, etc. > >Umm...I think JDE has code completion, syntax coloring, speedbar, etc. I meant to say that "At first I thought that Emacs had a much more powerful editor than VAJ's. VAJ, however, also has code completion, syntax coloring, speed bar, etc." I.e., VAJ also has a powerful editor. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: JDE vs. VAJ
Jikes also has an incremental compilation mode that you may want to look into. Basically, you run jikes with the list of files you want compiled, and give it the incremental mode flag. After it has compield the files you have given it, the process stays alive and attached to stdin and keeps a bunch of info related to the class heirarchy loaded in memory. When you have made your changes and are ready to recompile, you just hit enter in the console you started jikes in and it recompiles whatever needs to be. Matt On 06/12/2001 12:03:23 PM Paul Kinnucan wrote: > > > This would not be difficult. I have been planning to use the Beanshell to > compile files. This would eliminate the need to run javac, i.e., start up a > vm, every time you want to compile a file. Compilation would be virtually > instantaneous since most of the javac compilation time is due simply to > starting the vm. >
RE: JDE vs. VAJ
> >I use VAJ on my pIII 730. I have 512MB RAM (, lets face it, this is >becoming > >a standard configuration.) At first I thought that Emacs had a much more > >powerful editor than VAJ's. VAJ, however, has many nice features, such as > >code completion, syntax coloring, speed bar, etc. > >Umm...I think JDE has code completion, syntax coloring, speedbar, etc. I meant to say that "At first I thought that Emacs had a much more powerful editor than VAJ's. VAJ, however, also has code completion, syntax coloring, speed bar, etc." I.e., VAJ also has a powerful editor. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: JDE vs. VAJ
At 10:24 AM 6/12/2001 -0400, "Daniel Hegyi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi, > >At my job I was forced to use Visual Age for Java, and I must say that I'm >pleasantly surprised. The editor has customizable Emacs key bindings (more >or less). Most importantly, there is no compile command, after every save >only the new code is compiled in the background. It is very fast! Would >such iterative compilation be difficult to integrate into the JDE? This would not be difficult. I have been planning to use the Beanshell to compile files. This would eliminate the need to run javac, i.e., start up a vm, every time you want to compile a file. Compilation would be virtually instantaneous since most of the javac compilation time is due simply to starting the vm. >Is the purpose of Emacs and JDE mostly to give a nice environment for >those users who don't have much space, speed, and don't have admin rights >on their machine? Not exactly. It's intended for people doing Java development on Palm Pilots. I believe Palm users have admin rights to their machine. - Paul
RE: JDE vs. VAJ
> install a servlet engine. Finally, there are Emacs packages > for version > controlling, but VAJ's automatic version controlling is very > nice! There are some problems in my opinion with VAJ's embedded version control system, compared with CVS, for example: 1. There is really no concept of branching. You can have multiple revisions of a class, but there is not way to branch an entire project. 2. Linked to the above, there is no automated merge capability. This and number one make operating in an environment with highly concurrent development streams very difficult to impossible. 3. A fundamental concept of VAJ's version control is class and package ownership. In very large project that a single designated individual controls access to a particular class or package is unworkable, i.e. creates intolerable bottlenecks. In many ways, some of which were sited, VAJ is a very productive development environment. However, it's limited support of sophisticated version control can be a show stopper for large development organization, especially if they require highly concurrent development streams.
RE: JDE vs. VAJ
>I use VAJ on my pIII 730. I have 512MB RAM (, lets face it, this is becoming >a standard configuration.) At first I thought that Emacs had a much more >powerful editor than VAJ's. VAJ, however, has many nice features, such as >code completion, syntax coloring, speed bar, etc. Umm...I think JDE has code completion, syntax coloring, speedbar, etc.
RE: JDE vs. VAJ
> > Is the purpose of Emacs and JDE mostly to give a nice environment > > for those > > users who don't have much space, speed, and don't have admin > > rights on their > > machine? >In my case, none of the above, >All the IDE I have tried(Visual Cafe, JBuilder) >are incredible slower compare to emacs(I have a pIII 850 btw). >Do not have the editing power than emacs does, >the emacs key strokes binding does not do it for me. >They tend to crash often, are memory hugs, >and I could keep going. > >In brief, JDE offers most of the features(or more in some cases) >of graphical IDE's plus the ability to fully use emacs. I use VAJ on my pIII 730. I have 512MB RAM (, lets face it, this is becoming a standard configuration.) At first I thought that Emacs had a much more powerful editor than VAJ's. VAJ, however, has many nice features, such as code completion, syntax coloring, speed bar, etc. Of course, it isn't as customizable! Nevertheless, the only thing that I really miss is the import wizard and the multiple clipboards. VAJ has incremental compilation, which is incredible! As soon as you make a compile time mistake and save it, a little red x marks your class in the speedbar, and all other classes in the package are also marked that have now also a compile time error due to the changes. VAJ's "minibuffer" shows the errors as you switch focus between classes. No more explicit compilation. VAJ also has a test environment for servlets and EJBs. You don't have to install a servlet engine. Finally, there are Emacs packages for version controlling, but VAJ's automatic version controlling is very nice! Not to mention its debugger. Theoretically, VAJ should work on various platforms, since it is Java based. Regards, Daniel P.S. I know that VAJ isn't for free... :) _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: JDE vs. VAJ or (emacs everywher)
> Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Daniel Hegyi wrote: > > > Is the purpose of Emacs and JDE mostly to give a nice environment for those > > users who don't have much space, speed, and don't have admin rights on their > > machine? > > > VAJ has some nice points like the incremental compile, and debugging is easy, but I found the repository too weird. Worse on the two projects I have been involved that used VAJ the repository got corruped. I find grepping through source code convenient on large, multi-developer projects. I like to have my files, :-). Why emacs+JDE?? Well, I have it installed on my Linux, Win98, Win2k machines at home and I can use it at work. The environment is consistent (more or less given the oddities of windows) not matter where I'm at. If I goto another company, especially if they have UNIX they are likely to have emacs, and there is always the chance if they have windows I can talk them into letting me load ntemacs therefore again having that familiar interface. I can use any JVM, although some do not support debugging that well like jikes. Sometimes IDEs just get in the way plus some them insert lots of their custom code leaving me to wonder about distribution issues, or worse, they create lots of bad code quickly that I must re-engineer. So, I might as well as just coded it myself. Emacs is not the be all end all of editors and its command structure takes a little getting used too but once you do it provides lots of functionality for a great price (FREE!). John Syre C++/C, Java, Perl (and sometimes DBA)
RE: JDE vs. VAJ
> Is the purpose of Emacs and JDE mostly to give a nice environment > for those > users who don't have much space, speed, and don't have admin > rights on their > machine? In my case, none of the above, All the IDE I have tried(Visual Cafe, JBuilder) are incredible slower compare to emacs(I have a pIII 850 btw). Do not have the editing power than emacs does, the emacs key strokes binding does not do it for me. They tend to crash often, are memory hugs, and I could keep going. In brief, JDE offers most of the features(or more in some cases) of graphical IDE's plus the ability to fully use emacs. Javier
Re: JDE vs. VAJ
Keep in mind one of the big downsides of VAJ is that it stores code in its own proprietary repository format. So there are no *.java or *.class files on your disk (unless you explicitly export them, and who wants to do that every session?) So that means no grepping through code, no executing sed transforms or any other unixy tool you might be in the habit of using. It also means that everybody on your team has to use it or else it makes t difficult to integrate (e.g. our team's auto build process uses gnu make and jikes, will it compile there if it compiled on VAJ? Not always). I also learned at javaONE that the next version of VAJ will support a pluggable VM, so that as Java updates itself, VAJ will continue to support it. The primary reason that I don't use my copy of VAJ now is that it only supports Java1.1 (and I was unable to get demo disks of version 3.5, which supports Java2, at the show). Duane On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Daniel Hegyi wrote: > Hi, > > At my job I was forced to use Visual Age for Java, and I must say that I'm > pleasantly surprised. The editor has customizable Emacs key bindings (more > or less). Most importantly, there is no compile command, after every save > only the new code is compiled in the background. It is very fast! Would such > iterative compilation be difficult to integrate into the JDE? > > Is the purpose of Emacs and JDE mostly to give a nice environment for those > users who don't have much space, speed, and don't have admin rights on their > machine? > > > Regards, > Daniel > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >
