RE: Cookies, JRun 3.1, IE6, Windows XP/ME

[charles arehart]

Just taking a stab here: besides the generic "medium" setting, one can
specifically change the settings for cookie support, either globally or for
a given domain. See the "advanced" button on the privacy tab (of
Tools>Internet Options). The users may have overridden cookie support. They
need to have session cookies enabled for JRun's sessions to work.

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Nick de Voil [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 2:35 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Cookies, JRun 3.1, IE6, Windows XP/ME
>
>
> Does anyone know if there is something about the way JRun 3.1 uses cookies
> to implement session ID's that is incompatible with IE6 on Windows XP
> and/or ME?
>
> Or is there a cookie-related bug in IE6 on those platforms?
>
> I have users with that configuration whose browser is crashing as soon as
> they get past the application's login page, and the next page does nothing
> very remarkable except set some session variables.
>
> The weird thing is, the app works fine viewed with the same browser build
> and Privacy settings (IE6.0.2600., Medium) on Windows 98 - as well as
> many other platforms (various Windows, Mac, IE, Netscape, Opera, Mozilla)
>
> Thanks
>
> Nick
>
> 
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RE: Check interval for JSP recompilation

[charles arehart]

It might to help clarify your intention, especially for those not familiar
with that previously existing option.

Since the check for a new page occurs at the request of a page, do you mean
something that limits its looking to only every so many seconds--meaning
that for instance for 30 seconds pages that are requested may reflect the
old cached page even if the page's source has changed? With the benefit
being that at least it's not checking every single time in a high load site?

It may be worth pointing out to those who hear of this behavior and think
"my god, it checks if the file's updated every time it's requested?!", yes
that is normal behavior. It's wonderful in development, as you generally do
want the latest code to be executed.

Certainly, in a production environment, however, where code's not changing
often, it would be wasteful to check it when you know it's not changing. For
that, there is the option to change this at the application level. See the
Macromedia JRun documentation manual "Developing Apps with Jrun", Chapter
10, "JSP Compilation", or view it online at
http://livedocs.macromedia.com/jrun31docs/Developing_Applications_with_JRun/
jspcompile2.jsp#1096147

I realize this later behavior is not fine-grained enough for your
intentions, Roar (if I understand what you're looking for). I offer it as
much for others who may not be familiar with it.

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Johansen, Roar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:40 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Check interval for JSP recompilation
>
>
> Hi, all,
> is there a setting in JRun 3.x for altering the interval between checks to
> recompile JSPs (like the .checkseconds setting in JRun 2.x did)?
> TIA,
> Roar
> 
> FINN.no AS
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Tel.:+47 2282 7816
> Mob.:+47 905 76 056
> www.finn.no 
>
>
> 
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mailing list issue (was RE: Load Testing)

[charles arehart]

If anyone was curious (and in case it might happen to you), I figured out
the "reply to" issue that I (and Scott) referred to below. I did a little
digging and determined that his note on Wed had both me and the list in the
"to". (Perhaps you did a reply all on that one, Scott?) So when it came to
me, somehow the list (or my email client) treated it differently and wanted
by default to reply back to him.

Just something to keep in mind if someday on this or another list, you reply
to a list message and never see it posted to the list. If this has happened
and you didn't notice it, your note is going only to the sender, not the
whole list. :-)

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Stirling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:01 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)
>


> I don't know anything about the mailing list's properties.  It's
> maintained by Mike Dinowotz at http://www.houseoffusion.com
>
> Scott
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >

> >
> > PS Do you know, Scott, why a reply to your note would be
> > setup to go just to
> > you and not to the list? I almost didn't catch that. I've not
> > noticed that
> > happen with any other notes on the list, even several
> > received today. Just
> > curious. :-)

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RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)

[charles arehart]

You raise good points, Scott. Certainly, to test a site inside a firewall,
you'll need to install some software. But if that's not a concern, and if
you want to avoid installing (and learning) some software, this hosted
solution is still a worthwhile alternative. It's dead easy. And even for
just 5 users, it could be useful as Chris noted.

I previously installed by WAST and OpenSTA (as well as Empirix E-test Suite,
Mercury Interactive's Astra QuickTest, and Parasoft WebKing). And I found
they all had complications that kept me from using them on an ongoing basis.

I'm just raising this as an alternative for any who may have been through
the same process.

/charlie

PS Do you know, Scott, why a reply to your note would be setup to go just to
you and not to the list? I almost didn't catch that. I've not noticed that
happen with any other notes on the list, even several received today. Just
curious. :-)

> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Stirling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:34 AM
> To: 'charles arehart '; 'JRun-Talk '
> Subject: RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)
>
>
> Most people have their development/staging networks are behind
> firewalls and this outside load test won't be allowed through.
> So downloading it will most likely be their only option.
>
> Just to reiterate, Microsoft Web App Stress Tool (revamped,
> called ACT, and shipped commercially in VStudio .NET
> Enterprise/Architect) is free, easy to use, and you can easily
> get it up and running in minutes and hammer the crap out of your
> site with 100 or 200 virtual users or however many you want.
>
> http://webtool.rte.microsoft.com
>
> Scott Stirling
> JRun QA
> Macromedia
>
> -Original Message-
> From: charles arehart
> To: JRun-Talk
> Sent: 4/2/2002 11:32 PM
> Subject: RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)
>
> To be honest, I was excited about OpenSTA (being open source and all),
> and
> the docs were really well-done, so I was psyched. But then I found I
> couldn't quite get it to work at all. It was one of those justifications
> for
> the point Celeste had made: it didn't matter if it was free if it took a
> long time to get some use of it.
>
> Add, too, that it did require an install of the product. One bene I
> liked in
> the OpenDemand tool was that it required no software install.
>
> /charlie
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Pete Freitag [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >
> > I like OpenSTA http://www.opensta.org/ it's a free web site load
> testing
> > tool.  Like all testing tools you can't just sit down and use it,
> > but if you
> > spend a few minutes going over their example you will be on your way.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >
> > I appreciate all those points, Celeste. And as someone who's also been
> > around the IT world a long time (20 years), I realize that
> > politics are part
> > of the game. I just don't know how much that's really the heart
> > of the issue
> > of why people don't test. Indeed, it may be that a developer thinks
> that a
> > testing tool will take too long to learn to use (even if it's free)
> and
> > therefore it's worth even less time to try it out.
> >
> > But I'm trying to find out if anyone has found better alternatives.
> I've
> > looked at several web app testing tools (load and regression). Some
> are
> > free, some are expensive. I've looked at java testing tools (free and
> > commercial). Yes, they all take time to learn to use, so I've been
> > disinclined to use them as well. And I've talked to many of the
> commercial
> > companies about dropping their prices, or permitting a lower volume of
> > testing for lower costs (if not free). Even testing for 5 concurrent
> users
> > is better than not doing any testing at all.
> >
> > Fortunately, I do have good news for those who've been willing to
> follow
> > this thread (or at least read this note): I recently learned of a
> company
> > (Open Demand, at www.opendemand.com) who have both a packaged load
> testing
> > tool and (better for many, for cost and complexity) a hosted solution
> as
> > well. The hosted solution is really easy to use (and no software
> > to install,
> > of course). In fact, after discussions some discussion I got them to
> agree
> > to setup a mechanism for people to trial the service for free for
> > 5 virtual
&

RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)

[charles arehart]

To be honest, I was excited about OpenSTA (being open source and all), and
the docs were really well-done, so I was psyched. But then I found I
couldn't quite get it to work at all. It was one of those justifications for
the point Celeste had made: it didn't matter if it was free if it took a
long time to get some use of it.

Add, too, that it did require an install of the product. One bene I liked in
the OpenDemand tool was that it required no software install.

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Pete Freitag [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:29 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)
>
>
> I like OpenSTA http://www.opensta.org/ it's a free web site load testing
> tool.  Like all testing tools you can't just sit down and use it,
> but if you
> spend a few minutes going over their example you will be on your way.
>
> _
> Pete Freitag ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> CTO, CFDEV.COM
> ColdFusion Developer Resources
> http://www.cfdev.com/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:01 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)
>
>
> I appreciate all those points, Celeste. And as someone who's also been
> around the IT world a long time (20 years), I realize that
> politics are part
> of the game. I just don't know how much that's really the heart
> of the issue
> of why people don't test. Indeed, it may be that a developer thinks that a
> testing tool will take too long to learn to use (even if it's free) and
> therefore it's worth even less time to try it out.
>
> But I'm trying to find out if anyone has found better alternatives. I've
> looked at several web app testing tools (load and regression). Some are
> free, some are expensive. I've looked at java testing tools (free and
> commercial). Yes, they all take time to learn to use, so I've been
> disinclined to use them as well. And I've talked to many of the commercial
> companies about dropping their prices, or permitting a lower volume of
> testing for lower costs (if not free). Even testing for 5 concurrent users
> is better than not doing any testing at all.
>
> Fortunately, I do have good news for those who've been willing to follow
> this thread (or at least read this note): I recently learned of a company
> (Open Demand, at www.opendemand.com) who have both a packaged load testing
> tool and (better for many, for cost and complexity) a hosted solution as
> well. The hosted solution is really easy to use (and no software
> to install,
> of course). In fact, after discussions some discussion I got them to agree
> to setup a mechanism for people to trial the service for free for
> 5 virtual
> users (with no time limit for trying it out), which is really generous of
> them. I was really psyched to see that.
>
> If anyone here wants to try it out, the trial link is currently
> http://www.opendemand.com/cf/. Don't mind the fact that the URL (and the
> page) mentions CF (ColdFusion). It's just that they're initially
> focusing on
> the CF community but will very shortly have a link for the Java community.
> Of course, the tool doesn't care what the back-end server is running. It
> does the testing across the net from their hosted solution to
> your site, so
> the back-end's really transparent to the tool. Naturally, some may argue
> that a stress test should take place within the server's network. The
> company offers a packaged solution for that purpose as well.
>
> I hope folks will check it out and report what you think of it. Indeed, I
> hope that the 5-user test may be helpful to some in doing their first load
> testing. Sure, 5 users isn't much, but if your site is relatively
> low-trafficked, you ever know what running 5 concurrent users might stress
> in your system. Think about it, to get 5 users at once some sites
> would need
> to average thousands of users a day. By the same token, even if you don't
> expect that load, it's also possible that you could have that load in a
> sudden burst. Hey, it's free, so try it out against as many
> threads through
> your site as you'd like. (It's not just a tool to test one page
> but instead
> acts like a record and playback while you traverse your site creating a
> "scenario".)
>
> If you're interested in trying more virtual users, the paid service starts
> at $149 for 50 users for up to 60 minutes of testing (usable over whatever
> period of hour

RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)

[charles arehart]

I appreciate all those points, Celeste. And as someone who's also been
around the IT world a long time (20 years), I realize that politics are part
of the game. I just don't know how much that's really the heart of the issue
of why people don't test. Indeed, it may be that a developer thinks that a
testing tool will take too long to learn to use (even if it's free) and
therefore it's worth even less time to try it out.

But I'm trying to find out if anyone has found better alternatives. I've
looked at several web app testing tools (load and regression). Some are
free, some are expensive. I've looked at java testing tools (free and
commercial). Yes, they all take time to learn to use, so I've been
disinclined to use them as well. And I've talked to many of the commercial
companies about dropping their prices, or permitting a lower volume of
testing for lower costs (if not free). Even testing for 5 concurrent users
is better than not doing any testing at all.

Fortunately, I do have good news for those who've been willing to follow
this thread (or at least read this note): I recently learned of a company
(Open Demand, at www.opendemand.com) who have both a packaged load testing
tool and (better for many, for cost and complexity) a hosted solution as
well. The hosted solution is really easy to use (and no software to install,
of course). In fact, after discussions some discussion I got them to agree
to setup a mechanism for people to trial the service for free for 5 virtual
users (with no time limit for trying it out), which is really generous of
them. I was really psyched to see that.

If anyone here wants to try it out, the trial link is currently
http://www.opendemand.com/cf/. Don't mind the fact that the URL (and the
page) mentions CF (ColdFusion). It's just that they're initially focusing on
the CF community but will very shortly have a link for the Java community.
Of course, the tool doesn't care what the back-end server is running. It
does the testing across the net from their hosted solution to your site, so
the back-end's really transparent to the tool. Naturally, some may argue
that a stress test should take place within the server's network. The
company offers a packaged solution for that purpose as well.

I hope folks will check it out and report what you think of it. Indeed, I
hope that the 5-user test may be helpful to some in doing their first load
testing. Sure, 5 users isn't much, but if your site is relatively
low-trafficked, you ever know what running 5 concurrent users might stress
in your system. Think about it, to get 5 users at once some sites would need
to average thousands of users a day. By the same token, even if you don't
expect that load, it's also possible that you could have that load in a
sudden burst. Hey, it's free, so try it out against as many threads through
your site as you'd like. (It's not just a tool to test one page but instead
acts like a record and playback while you traverse your site creating a
"scenario".)

If you're interested in trying more virtual users, the paid service starts
at $149 for 50 users for up to 60 minutes of testing (usable over whatever
period of hours/days it takes to use up that time). Contact Don Doane
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for more pricing info.

I hope you guys will pardon if this leans towards a sales pitch. As the
whole thread started out, it's really about testing, and getting people to
do it more. It was just coincidental that at about the same time I was
arranging them to allow this trial service.

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 11:11 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)
>
>
> Charles,
>
> My response wasn't directed at just "what to do when the bosses don't
> listen", but also how to "not push your ideas to the point that
> you alienate
> the bosses you are trying to convince".  Again, unless you are an
> officer of
> a company, or are the owner, you are often NOT in a "decision
> making" role.
> Therefore, the only thing you can do is to try and convince
> people to test a
> product before deployment.  But you can't force your bosses to do
> something.
> And if you try to do so, you will risk your job and your professional
> reputation.
>
> Again, manpower issues and money issues are the key here.  Even
> if the tools
> are free, it takes the use of "x man-hours" to test a product,
> when those "x
> man-hours" could be used towards something viewed as "more profitable" or
> more important to the company by upper management.  This is
> especially true
> when you are in a very small shop as I am.  I can push all I
> want, but if I
> push too much, I run the risk of alienating the very people I am trying to
> convince.  And if I do alienate my "bosses", what have I gained
> for my group
> and "my cause"?  Nothing.  In fact, by pushing too far, I could end up
> hurting my group and my "cause

RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue

[charles arehart]

Speaking only for myself (whose attitude I assume you didn't understand),
I'm talking about letting by-gones be by-gones, considering it water under
the bridge, what's past is past, etc. Let's move forward and judge based on
what 's done now as much as what's been done in the past. As I said,
> > If future similar situations are addressed similarly, that's
> > great news for those of us remaining committed to JRun.

If the damage to anyone's faith and hope is irreparable, then so be it. I'll
just assert that as a beta tester of JRun 4 (and observer of the growth in
the standards-support of the product through 3 and 3.1), it seems that the
resources being dedicated to JRun and the improvements in the product are
such that we have much to look forward to.

And as was asserted by later notes today, sometimes problems like this are
found to be caused by entirely unexpected situations--and sometimes not even
the fault of the vendor. But as you said in a later note, let's not debate
it. As I said, I just want to have a hopeful outlook about the future. Maybe
it's a little pollyanna, but so be it. :-) I certainly don't mean to
diminish the importance of the problem or its severity for those who
suffered it.

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Ramin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 9:24 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Re: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue
>
>
> 
>
> I don't understand this attitude.  We're talking about a very serious
> bug that Macromedia has known about for close to a year now.  It
> got through their testing/release process twice.  They had a similar
> "we will do whatever it takes to fix this problem" response in
> November, which resulted in a patch that didn't fix the problem.
>
> I wouldn't call this a "great" response.  More like feeble.
>
> If you're using JRun for development, or for an intranet where
> session affinity isn't important, then I can understand.  But if you
> continue to use it in other environments, you are merely ignoring
> the issue.
>
>
> charles arehart wrote:
> > Wow, great way to respond to the issue. Thanks, Mike and Macromedia.
> >
> > Let's hope folks don't jump in with trite replies like "about
> time", etc. It
> > really won't add anything meaningful to the situation. If future similar
> > situations are addressed similarly, that's great news for those of us
> > remaining committed to JRun.
> >
> > /charlie
> >

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RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue

[charles arehart]

Wow, great way to respond to the issue. Thanks, Mike and Macromedia.

Let's hope folks don't jump in with trite replies like "about time", etc. It
really won't add anything meaningful to the situation. If future similar
situations are addressed similarly, that's great news for those of us
remaining committed to JRun.

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Collins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 3:37 PM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Re: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue
>
>
> FYI to talk-list:
>
> For those reading the talk list this week you probably have seen several
> messages on this thread dealing with duplicate jsessionids.
>
> Macromedia JRun Support is contacting 2 individuals on this
> thread and will
> work with them in order to get this issue resolved.  We will put
> appropriate
> resources on this issue to make sure it is resolved in a short as
> period as
> possible.
>
> The results of the issues will be posted to this list.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Collins
> JRun Product Support
>
>
> 
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RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)

[charles arehart]

Well, those are all good thoughts, Celeste, and surely helpful to many. But
my point wasn't "what do we do if the bosses don't listen" so much as "why
aren't we pushing testing (especially load testing) more". I think there's a
sense in many that it's not important, or it's too difficult, etc.

While it's true that many sites may not get thousands (or tens of thousands)
of hits in a day, it's reasonable for one getting just hundreds to get
several at once, and there are clearly issues (like the one that touched off
this thread) that may be triggered with just such a low level of load.

If I seem to be on a bit of a bandwagon for load testing, even for "smaller
shops", I am. And as has been pointed out, cost of tools isn't really the
issue. I'm curious for the kinds of arguments against it that have either
kept people from pursuing it or, even in the face of these assertions of the
low costs and good benefits, why they would still say "nah, not going to
bother".

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 10:55 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)
>
>
> Charlie,
>
> I just try to point out the business cases for testing.  With many
> owners/managers, it comes down to money and time, with time also being
> related to money.  As a professional, I ALWAYS write up my
> business case in
> a 1 page summary, which hits the highlights as to why ANY
> software product,
> internet or otherwise, should be tested.



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RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)

[charles arehart]

Yep, Dave and Ted have ID'ed the two most popular free tools I know of. So
cost isn't really the issue, once one knows of these. It's more just a
matter of deciding that the effort's worthwhile. Sounds like in your case,
Celeste, that the bosses really just aren't motivated to worry about
testing. That's the part I want to address. What do we, as professionals, do
(and know, and say) to promote more effective testing (load and otherwise).
What's really keeping it from being more prominent? Just some rhetorical
questions. If there are no replies, I'll know it's the sound of one hand
clapping. :-)

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:06 PM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)
>
>
> > If you do find other freebie testing tools, I would be
> > interested in the names/links.
>
> Take a look at OpenSTA:
> http://www.opensta.org/
>
> It's open-source, and free, and looks pretty good. I haven't used
> it for an
> actual testing engagement yet (I'm used to SilkPerformer) but it
> looks like
> it covers all the bases pretty well.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> voice: (202) 797-5496
> fax: (202) 797-5444
>
> 
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load testing (was RE: Difficult To Reproduce Session Issue)

[charles arehart]

Celeste, you say:

> We haven't seen this problem, not yet anyway.  But our servers
> are not under
> much of a load yet, as our site is just getting off the ground.  We expect
> that to change over the next three to four months.  If we do run into the
> same problem, I suspect that will be the final straw for the owner of this
> facility, and he too will decide to go with another JSP/Servlet
> server.

I'm curious if you're considering load testing before just waiting to see
what happens. Indeed, I'd like to open this discussion to a broader one of
whether people do use load testing tools, especially if they do anticipate a
growth in load. Or is the feeling that they're too expensive or cumbersome.

Perhaps people can share their experiences with any load testing tools,
indicating as well if the relative costs and challenges in using them.
Perhaps they can also clarify their own load requirements: clearly someone
with a commercial, clustered site with hundreds of thousands of hits per day
will have different needs (and preferences) over someone with a smaller
organization (or intranet) site getting hundreds of hits per day.

Still, for issues like this one being discussed, just simulating many per
second in a load testing tool could identify a problem that might otherwise
not crop up until later. As Celeste says, better to know about it sooner
than later. A testing tool seems of more value to people than they seem to
give it credit.

What are the facets that stop people from using them? Cost? Complexity? Lack
of awareness? Choosing among many alternatives? Hopefully this thread will
at least help us on the list get a better idea of what options make sense
for our varying needs, and we can pass along our discoveries to others, and
so on.

/charlie

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RE: CF2J2EE

[charles arehart]

I assume you meant "takes 3 times longer to develop the same thing in J2EE",
not CF, based on your previous statement. And I'd agree. As for the move of
CF to a J2EE platform for Neo, now called CFMX, it will not change current
CF development at all. The same code will run from CF5 to CFMX (except for
the sort of typical compatibility challenges, deprecations, and planned
obsolescence that come in most product upgrades). The fact that CFMX runs on
J2EE is as important to developers as the fact that it ran on a C++ platform
before--it was transparent.

Now, that's not to say that there won't be increased benefits from the
underlying J2EE platform and integration points. I think that was the crux
of Drew's question, but it's also why I asked for his clarification. It's
one thing for CFMXers to benefit from the new platform (as all will) and
consider some integration possibilities (as some will). It's quite another
to  expect them to leap from CF to pure J2EE. Some may be forced to by
company politics, but they'll likely be disappointed by that very loss of
productivity you mention.

Then again, I'll be the first to argue that there are many design and
development techniques and approaches inherent in the J2EE platform that the
CF community would be wise to adopt, and I'm in fact working on that very
issue. Drew and I have discussed some possibilities of working together in
that regard. But there's a place for the two different platforms. I'm
looking forward to each benefiting from the best of the other, as the two
communities become more aware of each other.

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Mashuri Lambana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:10 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Re: CF2J2EE
>
>
> We normally use coldfusion during prototyping stage because it is a lot
> faster to develop and to deploy (make customer try and make any revision
> necessary) because it roughly takes 3 times longer to develop the
> same thing
> in coldfusion.
>
> If Neo jump to J2EE i hope it maintains the simplicity of coldfusion or at
> least as simple as jrun without sacrificing the development time.  If it
> becomes as complex as J2EE looks like asp.net is a better alternative for
> RAD
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "charles arehart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "JRun-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:15 AM
> Subject: RE: CF2J2EE
>
>
> > Do you mean moving entirely from CF to J2EE? Or keeping some CF and
> > integrating with J2EE apps and services? And do you mean moving entire
> > applications or leaving existing ones and only building new ones?
> >
> > I'd think each of those pose different possibilities. (Of course, some
> > aspects would be the same for all, but each poses its own set
> of pros and
> > cons, I'd think.)
> >
> > /charlie
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Drew Falkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:33 PM
> > > To: JRun-Talk
> > > Subject: CF2J2EE
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey all-
> > >
> > > I have a question to pose to you anyone who is interested in
> responding:
> > >
> > > What would you tell a ColdFusion user if s/he were to ask what
> advantages
> > > they could utilize by moving to a J2EE environment?
> > >
> > > Thanks...
> > >
> > > Drew Falkman
> > > Author, JRun Web Application Construction Kit
> > > http://www.drewfalkman.com/books/0789726009/
> > >
> >
> 
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RE: CF2J2EE

[charles arehart]

Do you mean moving entirely from CF to J2EE? Or keeping some CF and
integrating with J2EE apps and services? And do you mean moving entire
applications or leaving existing ones and only building new ones?

I'd think each of those pose different possibilities. (Of course, some
aspects would be the same for all, but each poses its own set of pros and
cons, I'd think.)

/charlie

> -Original Message-
> From: Drew Falkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:33 PM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: CF2J2EE
>
>
> Hey all-
>
> I have a question to pose to you anyone who is interested in responding:
>
> What would you tell a ColdFusion user if s/he were to ask what advantages
> they could utilize by moving to a J2EE environment?
>
> Thanks...
>
> Drew Falkman
> Author, JRun Web Application Construction Kit
> http://www.drewfalkman.com/books/0789726009/
> 
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RE: JRun Nozomi Beta 3 Cyberseminar

[charles arehart]

Thanks for that heads up. For those who haven't seen any of Chrisophe's
presentations, he's an excellent and knowledgeable speaker.

Besides the JRun 4 presentation, there are also cyberseminars offered there
on other subjects that may interest folks.

I do have one concern, though: the form uses radio buttons to select a
seminar, so you can sign up for only one! :-) Is that intentional? There are
several at different dates, so it seems reasonable to want to sign up for
multiple ones. This seems especially important to resolve since the process
doesn't offer any means of logging in to use previously entered information,
so one would have to fill out the 2nd page registration form each time.
(Could they at least use a cookie to store the info and retrieve it for
subsequent registrations?)

Of course, I don't say this to discourage anyone from signing up for the
presentation tomorrow. If you haven't see what's new in JRun 4, it's a lot
of great stuff. (Heck, I've been beta testing it and I'll still sign up
because it never hurts to have new information drilled in multiple times!)

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Christophe Coenraets [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 4:44 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: JRun Nozomi Beta 3 Cyberseminar


Don't miss the opportunity to learn about the new version of JRun, and get
started with Beta 3. In this cyberseminar, I will take you through (and
demonstrate) the exciting new features of JRun, including:

- Web services support
- Auto deployment
- Hot modification
- New EJB 2.0 container
- Enterprise-class JINI-based clustering
- JMX service-based architecture
- XDoclet integration
- Macromedia Flash connectivity
- New JRun Management console
- and more...

Tuesday March 5, 2:00-3:00pm EST
Tuesday March 12, 2:00-3:00pm EST

Register now:
http://www.macromedia.com/v1/company/events/JRun/cyberseminars.cfm#register


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RE: input tags : html or jrun tags?

[charles arehart]

Ah. Excellent. :-) Thanks, Drew.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Drew Falkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:49 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: input tags : html or jrun tags?


Funny you should mention that, I was just reading this the other day...

http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/kickstart.html#taglibs

-Drew

-Original Message-
From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:49 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: input tags : html or jrun tags?


Struts also offers tags for iteration and logic control, as well as html
rendering (populating the value with properties of a named bean), and lots,
lots more.

I've been intrigued to see the similarities between these and the JSTL. Of
course, the JRun tags have been around longer but as has been noted, much of
their capability has been recognized and adopted in a more standard manner.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 6:08 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: input tags : html or jrun tags?


Matthew,

Is the JSP Standard Tag Library on the Jakarta site that close to being
"finalized" for a first release?  Don't get me wrong, I've used other tag
libraries on the Jakarta site, but I've been burned before when using tag
libraries that are still in beta release.

Do you know when they expect to do a first "official" release of the JSTL?

Celeste

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Horn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:19 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: input tags : html or jrun tags?


I would suggest using the JSP Standard Tag Library (JSTL). It is almost
ready for release and will probably become the standard. It runs on JRun as
well as any J2EE server.

JSTL provides a core set of custom tags for use in JSPs. It includes tags to
access databases, manipulate XML documents, and provide internationalization
in JSPs, plus lots of other tags.

The LiveSoftware -> Allaire -> Macromedia engineer who wrote the JRun tag
library has been working on the JSTL in addition to the Neo tags. In fact,
there are a lot of similarities in the libraries.

For more information, see
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/taglibraries.html.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 3:23 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: input tags : html or jrun tags?


So far, I've created my forms using html, now that I've discovered jrun
tags, I
was wondering if any of you can tell me from experience which is better to
use
and why.

The benefit I see for using jrun tags would be easy validation check. The
disadvantage would be making the code less portable to another web server
(which
is not an issue for us at the moment).

What would you guys recommend?

Thanks,

Zeina





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RE: input tags : html or jrun tags?

[charles arehart]

Struts also offers tags for iteration and logic control, as well as html
rendering (populating the value with properties of a named bean), and lots,
lots more.

I've been intrigued to see the similarities between these and the JSTL. Of
course, the JRun tags have been around longer but as has been noted, much of
their capability has been recognized and adopted in a more standard manner.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 6:08 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: input tags : html or jrun tags?


Matthew,

Is the JSP Standard Tag Library on the Jakarta site that close to being
"finalized" for a first release?  Don't get me wrong, I've used other tag
libraries on the Jakarta site, but I've been burned before when using tag
libraries that are still in beta release.

Do you know when they expect to do a first "official" release of the JSTL?

Celeste

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Horn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:19 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: input tags : html or jrun tags?


I would suggest using the JSP Standard Tag Library (JSTL). It is almost
ready for release and will probably become the standard. It runs on JRun as
well as any J2EE server.

JSTL provides a core set of custom tags for use in JSPs. It includes tags to
access databases, manipulate XML documents, and provide internationalization
in JSPs, plus lots of other tags.

The LiveSoftware -> Allaire -> Macromedia engineer who wrote the JRun tag
library has been working on the JSTL in addition to the Neo tags. In fact,
there are a lot of similarities in the libraries.

For more information, see
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/taglibraries.html.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 3:23 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: input tags : html or jrun tags?


So far, I've created my forms using html, now that I've discovered jrun
tags, I
was wondering if any of you can tell me from experience which is better to
use
and why.

The benefit I see for using jrun tags would be easy validation check. The
disadvantage would be making the code less portable to another web server
(which
is not an issue for us at the moment).

What would you guys recommend?

Thanks,

Zeina



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RE: Caching connection

[charles arehart]

Well, I don't know if the answer is in jrun:sql tags. I was going to say
that in addition to Mark and Drew's excellent commentaries on setting up
connection pooling, another problem may be just that your code is doing too
much database access. It's an easy mistake to make, getting lulled into
thinking that, "hey, this page should have a list of x items that are in the
database: I'll query the DB and show them". Works great, until

a: lots of people hit that page getting the same data
b: you do this on lots of pages getting the same kind of data

If it's possible that this information isn't changing from user to user
(like a list of departments in an intranet app or a list of states in an
ecommerce app), you really ought to investigate caching the resultset and
using THAT for your subsequent displays of the data.

Of course, this opens a bit of a can of worms (how to you keep the cached
list in synch with changes reflected in the DB), and indeed some may argue
this is where EJBs can help, but don't let fear of EJBs keep you from
considering possibilities with simple beans or collections stored in
application variables.

I'll leave it to others to expound on this with examples (or comments for or
against). It just seems that since you admit to being new to J2EE, it's easy
for us to forget that the problems may be more straightforward (and more
pernicious) than just connection pooling.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:42 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Caching connection


Thanks for replying Drew, I already have a datasource for my app.  I guess
the
step that I as missing was using the jsp and  tag!

I just went to the doc of taglib and all the answers were there!

Thanks again!





"Drew
Falkman" To: Jrun-Talk
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Caching connection

02/20/2002
11:01 AM
Please
respond to
jrun-talk








Hey-

JRun offers the ability to pool your database connections using JDBC. You
can setup datasources in the JRun Management Console, then access them using
their datasource name.

To setup a datasource:

1. Login to the JMC, click the plus sign next to the appropriate server
instance in the left menu. This opens the sub-menu for that server.

2. Click the JDBC Data Sources link. This will bring up the data source menu
screen on the right frame.

3. Click the "add" button - this will start the add datasource wizard.

4. On the first screen, select your driver type (MS SQL Server - a native db
driver is included if you are using Advanced or Enterprise), Enter the
datasource name - this is what you will refer to in your application - and a
brief description (optional).

5. On the next screen, you are asked for the database address/port number,
the database name (in SQL Server) and security information. Enter the
appropriate responses.

6. The next screen will as you for connection information - do you wish to
pool connections (yes, you should, most likely), when should the connection
timeout and at what interval should the connection retry a query if the
database is unavailable or busy. You can also enter any vendor arguments you
like for instantiating the connection.

7. Click next and you are finished.

Now you can refer directly to this datasource in your applications (this is
extremely easy if you are using JSP and the  tag...)

Drew Falkman
Author, JRun Web Application Construction Kit
http://www.drewfalkman.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 7:56 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Caching connection


Our office is new in implementing J2E technology. We are set up with JRun
and ms
sql server. The db admin was horrifed when he opened the sql server log and
saw
all the connections by one of my applications.


Basically, the site queries the db almost at every page, to collect, display
the
different info. So everytime the user browses a page, data is being pulled
from
sql.


Am I doing anything wrong? I thought that everytime I connect, I should
close
the connection.


I posted this q to javaranch, and one person replied that i should store in
app
level, and another one that JDBC2 Datasource would do that for me.


I'm embarrassed to admit but am clueless of what they mean.  Can someone
please
explain?


Thanks!



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RE: Java Developer's Journal

[charles arehart]

I'd go further and say that for any JSP development, JRun Studio would be a
good fit. It's a born HTML editor which has been expanded over the years to
support first ColdFusion and then JSP. It's tag
insight/completion/editing/help and color coding are all valuable when
people take advantage of them.

There's also so much more, including an internal browsing feature, toolbars
for all sorts of tasks, code-generating templates, code snippets, a code
sweeper, tag inspectors, built in stylesheet editor, built-in FTP client,
and testing tools (spelling, HTML validation, and link checking), which are
all useful as well for JSP, HTML, CF, ASP and similar development. There's
also a ton of built-in HTML help, including not only all the JRun manuals
but also HTML, WML, and other language references (and you can add any other
HTML-based manuals that you'd like).

Admittedly, it's not a very effective Java editor (though it's passable, and
one feature JRun Studio has over CF Studio is the embedded Tools>Compile
option).

Then again, the debugging, database query, and RDS features (for remote
development over HTTP), all of which do of course work only with JRun, all
add to make it a very useful tool.

The problem is that so many of these features are not obvious in the
interface. I highly recommend any Studio owner read the available manual
(Getting Started with JRun Studio). It's available in the Help tab in the
resource toolbar on the left (or via Help>Open Help References Window).

If you don't yet have Studio but want to read about it, the manual's not
available at livedocs.macromedia.com, but see the nearly equivalent book
under the link for HomeSite version 5 or "Using CF Studio" under the
Coldfusion Server 5 links.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:54 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Java Developer's Journal


I use JRUN Studio, but I've been recently introduced to Borlands JBuilder,
which I think is a much better overall IDE. But if you are working on a
strictly JRUN Server application using the JRUN Tag Libraries, JRUN Studio
isn't a bad IDE.  It's just not a flexible IDE when it comes to integration
with other JSP/Servlet/EJB servers.

Celeste

-Original Message-
From: Drew Falkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:36 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Java Developer's Journal


Does anyone actually use JRun Studio?

-Original Message-
From: Jackie Comeau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:24 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Java Developer's Journal


IDE would be JRun Studio, right? :-0

On Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:18 PM, Drew Falkman
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> Hey all-
>
> The Java Developer's Journal is having their best of 2001 Reader's Choice
> awards.  Remember to vote for your favorite Application Server (JRun, of
> course) or favorite book (JRun Web Application Construction Kit, why
> not...), plus IDE, component, etc.:
>
> http://www.sys-con.com/java/readerschoice2002/nominationform.cfm
>
> - Drew Falkman
>



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Flash (was RE: applets load extremely slow)

[charles arehart]

I've got another thought on that last subject, but I've decided to create it
under a new subject heading since it might spawn a conversation having
nothing to do with the problem Michael had raised.

An alternative to applets for creating enhanced user interfaces is
Macromedia Flash. Admittedly, it's another paradigm and a new development
environment, but people have done lots of cool things with it that go way
beyond just "skip intros". It can do all kinds of powerful things to create
useful user interfaces. Some cool examples (including real, live ones used
at real commercial sites like Franklin Planner and Scotts Lawn Care) are
linked to from:

http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/special/inspiration/webapps/

Check out the ihotelier one as a good, quick, simple example of a nifty
improvement to a complex web process brought about by Flash.
Smallblueprinter is cool, as well.

While some of these are written with CF as the backend, there's no reason
that JRun couldn't be used instead.

Indeed, there is a page at the MACR site devoted to Jrun/flash integration,
at:

http://www.macromedia.com/software/jrun/resources/integration/flash/tutorial
s/

/charie

-Original Message-
From: michael veit [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 12:27 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: applets load extremely slow


Anyone  have any idea why applets load extremely slow
when including one in a jsp - this is using JRun 3.1

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RE: applets load extremely slow

[charles arehart]

Do you mean to suggest that they load more slowly within a JSP that they
would when loading the same one from the same server via a simple HTML page?
That would be a good test to rule JRun (and JSP in general) out of the
picture.

I assume you already realize that in general applets do load more slowly
than a plain HTML page, without a high speed network connection, which is
why many eschew them. While they do offer lots of possibilities for enhanced
user interfaces, they have their cost.


/charlie

-Original Message-
From: michael veit [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 12:27 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: applets load extremely slow


Anyone  have any idea why applets load extremely slow
when including one in a jsp - this is using JRun 3.1

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RE: Re: chart options for Java servlets/applets

[charles arehart]

And also:

netcharts (netcharts.com), from Visual Mining
pop chart (popchart.com), from Corda Technologies

Both are commercial products geared toward enabling data-driven graphing
from within tools like JSP/servlets, CF, ASP, etc. They each also offer
examples of such, as well as free trial versions.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:01 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Re: chart options for Java servlets/applets


Nice one is jcharts.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/jcharts/

Travis

 Original Message 
From: Derek Nerenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-12-19 07:40:57.0
To: JRun-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: chart options for Java servlets/applets

If you're looking for something out of the box, you might want to check
these two links:

http://www.infragistics.com/products/java/powerchart.asp
http://www.sitraka.com/software/jclass/

Hope this helps,
Derek

>>> Susan M. Orndorff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12/19/01 7:00:26 AM
>>>
We would like to be able to pull out data from our database and present it
as a chart via the web.   I searched JRun-Talk and saw a similar question
and the answer was to use KavaChart.  My question is:  has anyone used
KavaChart, and if so what is your impression of it?  Does anyone have
experience using KavaChart vs. Crystal Reports?  If someone has used
Crystal Reports, how do they mesh with servlets and applets?  Thanks

Susan
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RE: JRun-Talk-List V1 #7

[charles arehart]

Well, the netstat works in Win2k, but not the grep. :-)  At least now in my
Win2k Pro. And while this is still not the list of unused ports I was
originally seeking, it's cool to know that there's such an easy way to get
those that are in use.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:35 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Re: JRun-Talk-List V1 #7


Jeff Ramin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>For those of you running unix, to see what ports currently
>have servers using them, just type:
>
>netstat -an | grep -i listen
>
This works in Windows 2000 as well.

--Sam

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RE: Finding Free Ports

[charles arehart]

Ah, I see. But that looks up what ports are in use by JRun. The utility I
was referring to does the opposite, telling you what ports are NOT in use,
on the entire system.

But thanks for pointing out the Key Search feature. I'm sure others, like
me, may not have noticed it before.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Drew Falkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 3:37 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Finding Free Ports


Charles-

The "key search" is a link in the top nav bar of the JMC. This is actually a
great utility as you can look up any key/value pair that is stored in any of
the properties files. The first option (on the JMC I am looking at) is
Commonly Used keys, next to it is a drop-down menu, of which "All ports" is
one option - you can also search "All classpaths". The other option is
entering a "User Defined Key". This allows you to be more selective. Then
you can choose the JRun servers you wish to check for keys on.

Unfortunately this doesn't tell you where it was found - which would be
helpful if you wanted to change values, etc. But it will at least tell you
what's going on under the hood.

As far as all JRun's ports, I mean all of the internal/external ports JRun
uses. Each server actually has a few ports that are used as endpoints,
sniffers and whatnot. But these are only the ports that JRun uses - not the
Web server or other software/services.

-drew

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RE: Finding Free Ports

[charles arehart]

That's interesting. Thanks, Drew. I didn't see how to find the "all ports",
let alone the "key search function". Where are they?

But when you say it "only looks up JRun's ports", what do you mean?

The utility I was pointing out accepts any range of ports to check.

/charlie

PS Did anyone else get two copies of my note and two copies of Jeff Ramin's
reply? I know I sent only one. Actually, don't reply if you did get two.
Let's just hope that someone in a position of running the list server
(Michael D?) also sees the problem and can look into it. Interestingly, in
each case, one note had our names as the "from" and the other had our email
addresses, if that's a clue. (And only one copy of Drew's reply came to me.)

-Original Message-
From: Drew Falkman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:11 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Finding Free Ports


Actually, you can use the JMC key search function to search this, as well.
Simply select All Ports in the commonly used keys drop-down, highlight the
servers you wish to search and click look up.  But, like Charles said, this
only looks up JRun's ports, not ports from other services.

-drew falkman

-Original Message-
From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:01 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Finding Free Ports


Ever wanted a way to find out what ports were free on your server? Did you
know that there's a built-in class in JRun that can tell you? I didn't,
until now. It's documented in that chapter 4 of the Setup Guide I mentioned
in the previous note.

The section "Understanding JRun ports" indicates that it's built into the
allaire.jrun.install package, and it shows how to call it from the command
line as well as from a simple sample code snippet you can use to call it
programmatically. It'd be cool if it were automatically provided as a
pre-built servlet or JSP page, perhaps listed in the JMC or examples, or if
the command-level call to the application was available from the Start>JRun
list of choices.

It can scan and find free ports in a given range. Beware, of course, that it
can only determine if a port's in use--it won't know if the port's been
allocated to some other service that's not running. This is another
challenge, such as when you have more than one servlet engine or app server
installed but not running, that might already be setup to use this
supposedly "free" port.

If anyone takes the time to put together a servlet or JSP, I hope they'll
share it.

Gee, it's amazing what things you can find when you read the manuals. :-)
(Actually, I must have read it at one time in my early JRun exploration,
perhaps before I realized how valuable a free port finder would be!)

/charlie


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Finding Free Ports

[charles arehart]

Ever wanted a way to find out what ports were free on your server? Did you
know that there's a built-in class in JRun that can tell you? I didn't,
until now. It's documented in that chapter 4 of the Setup Guide I mentioned
in the previous note.

The section "Understanding JRun ports" indicates that it's built into the
allaire.jrun.install package, and it shows how to call it from the command
line as well as from a simple sample code snippet you can use to call it
programmatically. It'd be cool if it were automatically provided as a
pre-built servlet or JSP page, perhaps listed in the JMC or examples, or if
the command-level call to the application was available from the Start>JRun
list of choices.

It can scan and find free ports in a given range. Beware, of course, that it
can only determine if a port's in use--it won't know if the port's been
allocated to some other service that's not running. This is another
challenge, such as when you have more than one servlet engine or app server
installed but not running, that might already be setup to use this
supposedly "free" port.

If anyone takes the time to put together a servlet or JSP, I hope they'll
share it.

Gee, it's amazing what things you can find when you read the manuals. :-)
(Actually, I must have read it at one time in my early JRun exploration,
perhaps before I realized how valuable a free port finder would be!)

/charlie
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RE: Using Jrun like IIS

[charles arehart]

It's not clear from your note, Bert, if you are indeed running IIS--or if
you just wanted things to work as they can in IIS. Celeste's idea is one way
to go.

Another is that if you do have IIS (or any other web server) installed, and
simply want to not have to provide the port on a URL (as well as get some
other performance gains from tighter web server/Jrun integration), you can
run the "connector wizard" available as a link at the top of the JMC. This
sets up whatever web server you want as an "external web server" for your
server.

It's discussed in the Chapter 4 of the JRun Setup Guide manual, which you
can view online at:

http://livedocs.allaire.com/jrun31docs/JRun_Setup_Guide/connectors.jsp

The very first section is called "Understanding Jrun ports".

A more general discussion of external web servers is in the earlier Chapter
2

http://livedocs.allaire.com/jrun31docs/JRun_Setup_Guide/servconf.jsp

Is this stuff perhaps what you were looking for?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 12:53 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Using Jrun like IIS


Bert,

I'm not sure if I understand your question completely, but I think you are
asking to view your wwwroot root directory in the browser window when you
type in "//localhost" vs "//localhost:8100" on the URL.  IF you did
configure JRUN to work with IIS on your machine, then do the following:

1. On Windows 2000, go to Settings -> Control Panel -> Internet Tools ->
Internet Services Manager
2. Open up Internet Information Services, and go to Default Web site ->
"Your App Subdirectory Name"
3. Right click on your applications subdirectory name, and select properties
4. Go to Documents Tab, and select Enable Default Documents.
5. Delete ALL documents in that window EXCEPT for index.jsp.  If you do not
have an index.jsp, add it to the document selection window.
6. Go to directory tab, and select the "The designated directory" .
7. Click apply, and then restart your JRUN server.
8. Go to IE or Netscape, and type http://localhost on the URL.  You should
now see your wwwroot subdirectory.

Keep in mind this ONLY works if you have configured JRUN to work with IIS,
and not as a stand alone server.

Hope this helps

Celeste



If so, you can do this as follows:
-Original Message-
From: Bert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:10 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Using Jrun like IIS


-




I am new to J-run but can you use it like IIS for example your site is
localhost/mysite or a 169.34.222 then it will redirect to your www/root in
IIS.

but in Jrun when I try to do this in the console it doesn't seem to work the
only way I get any files to work is by localhost:8100 and viewing the
directory. Is there a better way or something I am missing,I mean I want the
beans to work in the back ground and to be able to have a url just like with
Asp and IIS.


Bert


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load testing (was RE: iis with jrun)

[charles arehart]

Great question, Kevin (about doing load testing). I'd like to hear what
others think, as well.

I can share a little: there are several tools available, some free, some at
cost. While the server is Unix, are you able to run windows clients? That
will open up some more possibilities for the load testing tools (it's
certainly no problem for a Windows load-testing tool to bang against a unix
server).

MS offers a couple of freebies. Their WAS (web app stress) tool is discussed
in an article and thread (with some comments on it and others) at
http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=3396

The thread mentions apache jmeter, at
http://java.apache.org/jmeter/index.html

Another useful article at theserverside is on the general subject of
performance testing, at
http://www.theserverside.com/resources/article.jsp?l=Tips-On-Performance-Tes
ting-And-Optimization, and they mention using webload
(http://www.radview.com/products/WebLOAD.asp).

Indeed, just today a new article was posted on this very subject,
http://www.theserverside.com/home/thread.jsp?thread_id=10669.

Then there are commercial products from segue, mercury interactive
(mercuryinteractive.com), and empirix (formerly RSW software). Rational was
offering a free (not trial) version of their SiteLoad tool for up to like 50
users, but that seems to have disappeared and perhaps was folded into one of
their test suites.

As an aside, the Emprix's site had an article showing how e-load was used to
test a few java app servers, at
http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2713476,00.html

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Kevin Li [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:57 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Re: iis with jrun


hello.
we want debug our Unix System with preformance, is there any simple way
to make
it higher loaded and busy...

Thanks

Kevin

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RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun

[charles arehart]

Thanks for that, Jackie. I always appreciate your insights.

For those interested, the product is from Netdirect, at j-netdirect.com. In
fact, there is a nice FAQ they put together that answers the question, "What
is the difference between JDataConnect and the JDBC-ODBC bridge?":

http://www.j-netdirect.com/JDataFAQ.htm#Tech002

Indeed, the FAQ is a decent one that answers a lot of questions one may
have. Also, see their "product info" pages as they're more informative than
many. The company seems to recognize that developers have lots of questions
they want answered. I appreciate that.

The price for a single machine is 499, but I notice that they offer a trial
for 30 days and after that it reverts to an unlimited "standard" license
which simply limits the tool to only one concurrent connection. That's
decent of them, as well, to allow adequate testing.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Jackie Comeau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:46 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


JDataConnect is a good jdbc driver for Access.

On Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:35 AM, charles arehart
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> Of course, keep in mind too that Access itself is "not very good for heavy
> duty projects". For small volume apps, or in the very early stages of an
> app, it can suffice, but there are indeed many benefits of moving to a
> better DBMS platform. I don't think we need to open any can of worms about
> this. Sometimes people want to demonstrate a proof of concept with
something
> as simple as Access. Beyond that, they really should consider something
more
> substantial, if anything more than a few people will hit the DB at any one
> time. Of course, that can still translate to hundreds of users per day.
Just
> be careful.
>
> /charlie
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Phelps [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:40 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun
>
>
> You just need to obtain a JDBC driver for Access.  Sun provides a driver
> called the JDBC-ODBC bridge which would work.  You can download it from
> www.javasoft.com.  I have heard from others on this list, however, that
this
> driver is not very good for heavy duty projects.  Perhaps somebody on the
> list knows of a better driver out there somewhere.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Tamas Vertse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:24 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: access a MS Access DB from Jrun
>
>
> Hey,
> I have a Jrun server 3.0 and I would like to access an mdb file from a JSP
> file under Jrun.
> How can I do it? (My Jrun is standalone. I haven't linked any external
> webserver to it.)
> I wait your respones.
> Thanks,
> Tamas
>
>
>
>
>

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RE: RE: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun

[charles arehart]

Beyond the debate about Access, there are a couple of points that still seem
worth making.

First, with regard to the debate over Access, we're already way off topic
here. This is just the kind of debate I feared would come up. As to the
problem you encountered, ok, if everything was absolutely unchanged, then it
would seem the DBMS was at fault, but I'd have been very interested to find
the root cause. Still, I realize you were compelled to simply move off the
product, and no one can blame you for that.

As to why anyone would still use it, let's just say different strokes for
different folks.

But the problems with the driver have been illuminating, and that goes to
the core of Tamas' original question. I'd still be curious if anyone's
learned of an alternate driver.

I do feel compelled though to respond to the accusation that the
"relationship thing" is an Access-specific feature. It's really not. While
Access offers a GUI way to define relationships, it's really just a visual
way to define foreign keys, which could just as easily be done in DDL (data
definition language) with a CONSTRAINT keyword in either CREATE TABLE or
ALTER TABLE.

You're right though, Travis, that many people do get locked into only using
the visual tools for database structure manipulation. Indeed, I wrote an
article to help them make the bridge to using DDL such as that above, in the
article "Reconfiguring Remote Databases via SQL " at
http://www.sys-con.com/coldfusion/article.cfm?id=131. Though written for the
ColdFusion Dev Journal and focused on Access users, it could be just as
useful for JRun developers using any DBMS, when the database is on a remote
server that they can't manage via any visual means.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 5:23 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: RE: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


When we moved to SQL Server it was identical, no code changed, no queries
changed, in fact i think we did a direct import from access to sql server.

As for it being a relationship thing, I don't use any of accesses features
like that, I make my own relationships using keys and ids, so it's not that
either.  In fact, I rarely use any db specific features in case i want to
move dbs (hence the crossdb project www.crossdb.com).  I don't like having
to rely on any one specific application or platform, etc.  And the features
you talk about in Access are probably mostly of visual features which don't
help us people who don't touch the db gui's, other than for some things like
checking if values got inserted properly etc.  I write scripts for most
things in case i need to replicate it.

And to tell you the truth, Acess just isn't even in the cards anymore.  I
don't like the fact that you can't move to a linux/unix box either when
using Access.

So in conclusion, the big question is, Why use Access?  Especially when
there are better alternatives that don't cost anything?

Travis





 Original Message 
From: charles arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-11-20 12:40:13.0
To: JRun-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun

Well, this was the kind of debate that I was trying to avoid, but I do feel
I need to make at least one defense against the assertion that Access was to
blame. In the bigger picture, I'm offering a reply to suggest that things
aren't always what they seem. Those not interested in the discussion, please
just move along. I know for many it's a tired debate.

First, of course, you're right that there are alternatives like MySQL, but
it's not a perfect replacement either (lacks some features Access has).

As for your "loss of data", I really doubt that it was Access per se that
was at fault. Of course, the fact that you made a port of the same
app/structure and the problem went away would certainly be convincing
enough--but others have used it successfully with no such loss. Were you
able to ever isolate the source of the loss?

I ask this because (as is so often the case) the root cause may not have
been what it appeared to be. For instance, and I know this may not have
applied to your application, what if the problem was merely a mis-formed
relationship definition among tables? If someone had turned on the "cascade
delete" feature, then deleting one record would lead to deleting other
records in the related table. If that's used in anything other than a
master-detail situation, that would cause data to unexpectedly disappear.
Also, even in some master-detail situations, it's not what one wants, but
it's very easy to setup that way without realizing the cost.

Also, there may have been a situation where the column names were at fault.
You were using CF, right? A little known problem can occur 

RE: Jrun and CF 5.0

[charles arehart]

One other gotcha worth pointing out (that's not specific to CF really but
may burn you if you're not aware of it) is if you run the Web Server
connector wizard. This is offered by default during installation to allow
you to connect your web server to JRun. Basically, it allows you to use URLs
that don't require you to specify the JRun port, among other benefits.

But what's not obvious is that after doing this, you may have conflicts
between the mappings for built-in JRun applications and any existing web
server mappings or directory names of the same name.

For instance, if you have a directory in your webroot called "demo" in which
you have various CF templates, once JRun is installed and web server
connector is run, you'll find that you can no longer run those templates.
JRun will have caused the "/demo" mapping to point to its "demo" app. I had
this problem and had to rename my demo directory to CFDemo. It wasn't a big
deal, but it was curious until I figured it out.

The same would go for /invoice and just plain /, which are also mapped to
applications in JRun.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Michael Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:57 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Jrun and CF 5.0


Problems like that. I already have CF installed and am going to install
Jrun 3.1 and wasn't sure if there was anything I should take care of
before I did so.

Mike

> -Original Message-
> From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

> Back to your original question, Mike, were you thinking about
> problems like this or something else?
>
> /charlie

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RE: Jrun and CF 5.0

[charles arehart]

One problem has been that if you had JRun installed prior to installing CF,
that JRun could get clobbered. CF 5 now installs a copy of JRun "under the
covers" to support both its charting features (CFGRAPH) and its new
management features (monitoring via probes, server reports, and more). These
2 instances of JRun are set up to start automatically and most CF
Administrators will be oblivious to their existence. (And the license for
these instances preclude use of them for any development against them
outside of CF's use of them internally.)

The problem is that the install of those JRun instances has clobbered the
existing instance if one had JRun already installed. I've not seen a
Knowledge base article to identify or rectify the problem. You'd think that
the instance already installed could instead be used to provide the support
needed by CF.

I got hit with the problem, and when I heard others were being hit as well,
I simply reinstalled Jrun. But for someone with an existing production
install of JRun, I'd think you'd want to be careful.

Perhaps someone from MM on this list can respond? Maybe the problem has
since been identified, if not rectified.

Back to your original question, Mike, were you thinking about problems like
this or something else?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Michael Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 2:50 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Jrun and CF 5.0


Hi,

I am just getting started with Jrun and was wondering if there were any
issues with running CF 5.0 and Jrun 3.1 on the same box for development
purposes.

Thanks,

Mike

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RE: FW: Undeliverable Mail

[charles arehart]

Thanks so much, Michael.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 2:24 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Re: FW: Undeliverable Mail


Thanks for bringing this to my attention. This was one of those mail errors
that happen when someones account is disabled and it informs the poster of
a message rather than the list its from. It's not very common, but it does
happen. It took me a few seconds to hunt down Mr. Loew's email address and
remove him. If anyone gets message like this due to the list, please feel
free to email me asap and I'll deal with it.
Anything to keep the lists clean and useful. :)

At 02:06 PM 11/20/01, you wrote:
>I'm posting so that I'll get the error messages and then remove the person.
>
>At 12:47 PM 11/20/01, you wrote:
> >Can we do something to remove this address from the list? Every time I
post
> >a message to the list, I get the bounce below. I'm sure it's happening to
> >others, and like me you've probably just ignored it.
> >
> >But I've just confirmed that it's been going on with every submission
I've
> >made to the list for the past two months (I matched all my notes sent to
the
> >list against these bounce notices. They've been happening with each
message
> >since 10/15).
> >
> >If anyone knows him, maybe you can get word to him of this problem so he
can
> >re-join the list with an updated address. The details of the problem are
> >provided below.
> >
> >Michael Dinowitz, is this something we would need you to handle? I've
cc'ed
> >him directly on this note. Or might someone else be handling this list's
> >management? I know Michael has lots of lists to manage, and I want to
take a
> >chance here to publicly thank him for this one, among the many. :-)
> >
> >/charlie
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Mailer-Daemon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:36 AM
> >To: carehart
> >Subject: Undeliverable Mail
> >
> >
> >- Could not deliver Message
> >to -
> > CN=Andreas Loew/OU=Externe/O=DB AG/C=DE@Deutsche
> > Bahn AG
> >
> >User Andreas Loew/Externe/DB AG/DE@Deutsche Bahn AG not listed in public
> >Name & Address Book
> >
> >- Your Original
> >Message 
> >
> >Date: 11/20/2001 05:36 PM
> >From: carehart%systemanage.com@Internet
> >Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun
> >Priority: Normal
> >Importance: 2
> >Reply-To: jrun-talk%houseoffusion.com@Internet
> >
> >Of course, keep in mind too that Access itself is "not very good for
heavy
> >duty projects". For small volume apps, or in the very early stages of an
> >app, it can suffice, but there are indeed many benefits of moving to a
> >better DBMS platform. I don't think we need to open any can of worms
about
> >this. Sometimes people want to demonstrate a proof of concept with
something
> >as simple as Access. Beyond that, they really should consider something
more
> >substantial, if anything more than a few people will hit the DB at any
one
> >time. Of course, that can still translate to hundreds of users per day.
Just
> >be careful.
> >
> >/charlie
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Mark Phelps [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:40 AM
> >To: JRun-Talk
> >Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun
> >
> >
> >You just need to obtain a JDBC driver for Access.  Sun provides a driver
> >called the JDBC-ODBC bridge which would work.  You can download it from
> >www.javasoft.com.  I have heard from others on this list, however, that
this
> >driver is not very good for heavy duty projects.  Perhaps somebody on the
> >list knows of a better driver out there somewhere.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Tamas Vertse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:24 AM
> >To: JRun-Talk
> >Subject: access a MS Access DB from Jrun
> >
> >
> >Hey,
> >I have a Jrun server 3.0 and I would like to access an mdb file from a
JSP
> >file under Jrun.
> >How can I do it? (My Jrun is standalone. I haven't linked any external
> >webserver to it.)
> >I wait your respones.
> >Thanks,
> >Tamas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

~~
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RE: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun

[charles arehart]

nts, as well as designs of both the apps and db that can all
have influence, not to mention patches, volume issues, and lots more.

But, hey, that's what keeps us all busy and constantly learning! :-)

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:40 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


You are right in saying it's the driver.  It doesn't support many features,
has multiple connection issues, is slow, etc.  In most cases, I wouldn't
even using it just for testing or proof of production.  When I started using
it a while back, i had problems that were unsolvable, that magically were
fixed when i used a new driver.

As for access, we've used access in cold fusion apps before too, but quickly
stopped that after data started going missing.  And this wasn't even a heavy
hit server, it was an internal app for a company that completely relied on
the database, maybe 10 users tops.  The minute a database starts losing
data, is the minute you get rid of it and never use it again.  We moved the
exact same app with the exact same db structure to MS SQL Server and voila,
problem fixed.  That is just one reason why you should not use access for
anything that is important.  That doesn't even take into account that it's
slow, etc...

And why use a database that is...  well junk, that you have to pay for when
you can use a reliable database like mySQL for free?

Travis

 Original Message 
From: charles arehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2001-11-20 10:26:35.0
To: JRun-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun

Right, we're in agreement. I too have apps built years ago with ColdFusion
and Access that still run with no problem having hundreds if not thousands
of hits per day, but there will be others who'll want to jump in and declare
Access null and void "for production" right off the bat. I was just hoping
to temper that oft-raised debate. They may very well still wade in
responding to Tamas' original note before reading ours. :-)

But I'm intrigued by your assertion that "the problems with the JDBC-ODBC
Bridge driver far outweighs Access's limitations". Are you saying that you
found that you couldn't even do the equivalent application in Java using the
JDBC-ODBC driver? Or in other words, that all things being equal (regarding
volume and nature of access to the database) an app using the JDBC driver
would not perform as well as it might because of the driver itself? (Of
course, I'm again not trying to open the debate of ASP or CF vs
JSP/servlets: I'm referring just to any anecdotal experience to suggest that
the JDBC-ODBC driver itself would be specifically at fault for poorer
performance than an equivalent app written in another platform accessing the
same Access DB.)

If that's the case, then it would seem the conclusion would be to use Access
only for proofs of concept, extremely light load apps, etc, and move to
another DBMS, as you did, for production.

I suppose that was the meaning in the Sun's recommendation to not use it for
"production". It's just that blanch at such overarching statements because
"production" means so many things to so many people. Indeed, the same
argument is made against Access, but as we've discussed that's not always a
fair accusation.

But it sounds like the argument against the driver isn't the same as the
argument against Access. Thanks for clarifying that.

I wonder, given that some would still want to try to use Access in the right
circumstances, if anyone or any company has come out with an alternative
JDBC driver for Access?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Fishwick, Randall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:57 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


Charlie,

Agreed in principle.  But our company used an Access database with ODBC and
Active Server Pages for several years with no serious problems.  This was a
web based telephone number lookup that was accessed hundreds if not
thousands of times a day.  The point being that the problems with the
JDBC-ODBC Bridge driver far outweighs Access's limitations.  We're now using
both Oracle and SQL Server for our JSP/Servlet based web applications.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:35 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


Of course, keep in mind too that Access itself is "not very good for heavy
duty projects". For small volume apps, or in the very early stages of an
app, it can suffice, but there are indeed many benefits of moving to a
better DBMS platform. I don't think we need to open any can of worms about
this. Sometimes people want to demonstrate a pro

RE: Using Struts in JRun

[charles arehart]

Cool news. Thanks.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Scott Stirling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:52 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Using Struts in JRun


We use many of the Jakarta taglibs and other web-apps (Velocity, Struts) as
use case tests for JRun in QA.  Sometimes the apps have bugs, sometimes JRun
has had bugs.  But JRun 3.1 is extremely good about portable apps like
Struts.  I don't know of any problems with it or init-params.  I just tested
the struts-exercise-taglib to be sure and there were no problems.

Scott Stirling
JRun QA
Macromedia

> -Original Message-
> From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>
> Christophe, I don't see that anyone replied to your question.
> I'd like to
> raise it again...as much because I'm very curious about
> running Struts under
> JRun. So, other than this problem, is it working for you?
> Have others used
> it. Are there any challenges? Are the benefits all they seem to be?
>
> If you're not familiar with Struts, there's a decent article
> on it this
> month in the Java Dev Journal
> (http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1198). It offers lots of
> interesting additional features for JSP/servlet development that solve
> common challenges of web app development. It may be most
> well-known as a
> "framework", or a mechanism to manage how one calls upon JSP
> templates,
> servlets, and beans in a more well-organized manner. But
> there are also
> mechanisms to abstract all manner of functionality, almost to a degree
> similar to CF: there are custom tags to prepopulate forms
> with data, to
> improve form validation and error handling, to iterate over a
> collection,
> and lots more. Do check out the article if you're not
> familiar with it.
>
> The only thing is that the article doesn't discuss
> implementing it with any
> particular servlet engine. Many may presume that it only
> works with TomCat
> (since both Struts and TomCat are apache projects), but on
> more careful
> reading the author just refers to "the servlet engine"
> generically, leaving
> the implication that it may work with in. Thus, my original
> question: is
> anyone using it with JRun. Then there's Christophe's problem
> below about a
> particular aspect of managing the web.xml file.
>
> Any takers?
>
> /charlie
>
> -Original Message-
> From: christophe.marchand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I use Struts with JRun 3.1.
> It appears that Struts isn't able to read  from
> web.xml. In
> fact, getServletConfig().getInitParameter() always returns null.
>
> Any idea ?
>

~~
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FW: Undeliverable Mail

[charles arehart]

Can we do something to remove this address from the list? Every time I post
a message to the list, I get the bounce below. I'm sure it's happening to
others, and like me you've probably just ignored it.

But I've just confirmed that it's been going on with every submission I've
made to the list for the past two months (I matched all my notes sent to the
list against these bounce notices. They've been happening with each message
since 10/15).

If anyone knows him, maybe you can get word to him of this problem so he can
re-join the list with an updated address. The details of the problem are
provided below.

Michael Dinowitz, is this something we would need you to handle? I've cc'ed
him directly on this note. Or might someone else be handling this list's
management? I know Michael has lots of lists to manage, and I want to take a
chance here to publicly thank him for this one, among the many. :-)

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Mailer-Daemon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:36 AM
To: carehart
Subject: Undeliverable Mail


- Could not deliver Message
to -
CN=Andreas Loew/OU=Externe/O=DB AG/C=DE@Deutsche Bahn AG

User Andreas Loew/Externe/DB AG/DE@Deutsche Bahn AG not listed in public
Name & Address Book

- Your Original
Message 

Date: 11/20/2001 05:36 PM
From: carehart%systemanage.com@Internet
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun
Priority: Normal
Importance: 2
Reply-To: jrun-talk%houseoffusion.com@Internet

Of course, keep in mind too that Access itself is "not very good for heavy
duty projects". For small volume apps, or in the very early stages of an
app, it can suffice, but there are indeed many benefits of moving to a
better DBMS platform. I don't think we need to open any can of worms about
this. Sometimes people want to demonstrate a proof of concept with something
as simple as Access. Beyond that, they really should consider something more
substantial, if anything more than a few people will hit the DB at any one
time. Of course, that can still translate to hundreds of users per day. Just
be careful.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Mark Phelps [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:40 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


You just need to obtain a JDBC driver for Access.  Sun provides a driver
called the JDBC-ODBC bridge which would work.  You can download it from
www.javasoft.com.  I have heard from others on this list, however, that this
driver is not very good for heavy duty projects.  Perhaps somebody on the
list knows of a better driver out there somewhere.

-Original Message-
From: Tamas Vertse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:24 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


Hey,
I have a Jrun server 3.0 and I would like to access an mdb file from a JSP
file under Jrun.
How can I do it? (My Jrun is standalone. I haven't linked any external
webserver to it.)
I wait your respones.
Thanks,
Tamas





~~
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RE: Using Struts in JRun

[charles arehart]

Good point, Joe. Thanks for pointing out the available alternative list. I
do see looking at it that there are hundreds of posts about JRun. Cool.

I suppose one interested in integrating Struts and JRun could (and should)
weed through those hundreds of notes on the list. Frankly, I hope it doesn't
seem too off-topic to at least ask if anyone's already done that or on their
own has implemented it, and in either case capture any significant points
and experience here on this list.

For instance, I'm glad to hear from Michael Veit in his follow-on note that
it's worked well for him except for a couple of things.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Joe Niski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:28 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Using Struts in JRun


have you tried using the Struts-user maillist archive at
http://www.mail-archive.com/struts-user@jakarta.apache.org/

???

Joe Niski | Senior Software Engineer/Internet Architect
Nine Dots
503.548.2176
Portland . Irvine . San Francisco . Toronto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> -Original Message-
> From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 7:28 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Using Struts in JRun
>
>
> Christophe, I don't see that anyone replied to your question.
> I'd like to
> raise it again...as much because I'm very curious about
> running Struts under
> JRun. So, other than this problem, is it working for you?
> Have others used
> it. Are there any challenges? Are the benefits all they seem to be?
>
> If you're not familiar with Struts, there's a decent article
> on it this
> month in the Java Dev Journal
> (http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1198). It offers lots of
> interesting additional features for JSP/servlet development that solve
> common challenges of web app development. It may be most
> well-known as a
> "framework", or a mechanism to manage how one calls upon JSP
> templates,
> servlets, and beans in a more well-organized manner. But
> there are also
> mechanisms to abstract all manner of functionality, almost to a degree
> similar to CF: there are custom tags to prepopulate forms
> with data, to
> improve form validation and error handling, to iterate over a
> collection,
> and lots more. Do check out the article if you're not
> familiar with it.
>
> The only thing is that the article doesn't discuss
> implementing it with any
> particular servlet engine. Many may presume that it only
> works with TomCat
> (since both Struts and TomCat are apache projects), but on
> more careful
> reading the author just refers to "the servlet engine"
> generically, leaving
> the implication that it may work with in. Thus, my original
> question: is
> anyone using it with JRun. Then there's Christophe's problem
> below about a
> particular aspect of managing the web.xml file.
>
> Any takers?
>
> /charlie
>
> -Original Message-
> From: christophe.marchand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:52 PM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Struts, JRun and  in web.xml
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I use Struts with JRun 3.1.
> It appears that Struts isn't able to read  from
> web.xml. In
> fact, getServletConfig().getInitParameter() always returns null.
>
> Any idea ?
>
> Thanks a lot
>
>
>

~~
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RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun

[charles arehart]

Right, we're in agreement. I too have apps built years ago with ColdFusion
and Access that still run with no problem having hundreds if not thousands
of hits per day, but there will be others who'll want to jump in and declare
Access null and void "for production" right off the bat. I was just hoping
to temper that oft-raised debate. They may very well still wade in
responding to Tamas' original note before reading ours. :-)

But I'm intrigued by your assertion that "the problems with the JDBC-ODBC
Bridge driver far outweighs Access's limitations". Are you saying that you
found that you couldn't even do the equivalent application in Java using the
JDBC-ODBC driver? Or in other words, that all things being equal (regarding
volume and nature of access to the database) an app using the JDBC driver
would not perform as well as it might because of the driver itself? (Of
course, I'm again not trying to open the debate of ASP or CF vs
JSP/servlets: I'm referring just to any anecdotal experience to suggest that
the JDBC-ODBC driver itself would be specifically at fault for poorer
performance than an equivalent app written in another platform accessing the
same Access DB.)

If that's the case, then it would seem the conclusion would be to use Access
only for proofs of concept, extremely light load apps, etc, and move to
another DBMS, as you did, for production.

I suppose that was the meaning in the Sun's recommendation to not use it for
"production". It's just that blanch at such overarching statements because
"production" means so many things to so many people. Indeed, the same
argument is made against Access, but as we've discussed that's not always a
fair accusation.

But it sounds like the argument against the driver isn't the same as the
argument against Access. Thanks for clarifying that.

I wonder, given that some would still want to try to use Access in the right
circumstances, if anyone or any company has come out with an alternative
JDBC driver for Access?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Fishwick, Randall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:57 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


Charlie,

Agreed in principle.  But our company used an Access database with ODBC and
Active Server Pages for several years with no serious problems.  This was a
web based telephone number lookup that was accessed hundreds if not
thousands of times a day.  The point being that the problems with the
JDBC-ODBC Bridge driver far outweighs Access's limitations.  We're now using
both Oracle and SQL Server for our JSP/Servlet based web applications.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:35 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


Of course, keep in mind too that Access itself is "not very good for heavy
duty projects". For small volume apps, or in the very early stages of an
app, it can suffice, but there are indeed many benefits of moving to a
better DBMS platform. I don't think we need to open any can of worms about
this. Sometimes people want to demonstrate a proof of concept with something
as simple as Access. Beyond that, they really should consider something more
substantial, if anything more than a few people will hit the DB at any one
time. Of course, that can still translate to hundreds of users per day. Just
be careful.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Mark Phelps [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:40 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


You just need to obtain a JDBC driver for Access.  Sun provides a driver
called the JDBC-ODBC bridge which would work.  You can download it from
www.javasoft.com.  I have heard from others on this list, however, that this
driver is not very good for heavy duty projects.  Perhaps somebody on the
list knows of a better driver out there somewhere.

-Original Message-
From: Tamas Vertse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:24 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


Hey,
I have a Jrun server 3.0 and I would like to access an mdb file from a JSP
file under Jrun.
How can I do it? (My Jrun is standalone. I haven't linked any external
webserver to it.)
I wait your respones.
Thanks,
Tamas






~~
Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/jrun-talk@houseoffusion.com/
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RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun

[charles arehart]

Of course, keep in mind too that Access itself is "not very good for heavy
duty projects". For small volume apps, or in the very early stages of an
app, it can suffice, but there are indeed many benefits of moving to a
better DBMS platform. I don't think we need to open any can of worms about
this. Sometimes people want to demonstrate a proof of concept with something
as simple as Access. Beyond that, they really should consider something more
substantial, if anything more than a few people will hit the DB at any one
time. Of course, that can still translate to hundreds of users per day. Just
be careful.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Mark Phelps [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:40 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


You just need to obtain a JDBC driver for Access.  Sun provides a driver
called the JDBC-ODBC bridge which would work.  You can download it from
www.javasoft.com.  I have heard from others on this list, however, that this
driver is not very good for heavy duty projects.  Perhaps somebody on the
list knows of a better driver out there somewhere.

-Original Message-
From: Tamas Vertse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:24 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: access a MS Access DB from Jrun


Hey,
I have a Jrun server 3.0 and I would like to access an mdb file from a JSP
file under Jrun.
How can I do it? (My Jrun is standalone. I haven't linked any external
webserver to it.)
I wait your respones.
Thanks,
Tamas




~~
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Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/jrun-talk@houseoffusion.com/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists

Using Struts in JRun

[charles arehart]

Christophe, I don't see that anyone replied to your question. I'd like to
raise it again...as much because I'm very curious about running Struts under
JRun. So, other than this problem, is it working for you? Have others used
it. Are there any challenges? Are the benefits all they seem to be?

If you're not familiar with Struts, there's a decent article on it this
month in the Java Dev Journal
(http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1198). It offers lots of
interesting additional features for JSP/servlet development that solve
common challenges of web app development. It may be most well-known as a
"framework", or a mechanism to manage how one calls upon JSP templates,
servlets, and beans in a more well-organized manner. But there are also
mechanisms to abstract all manner of functionality, almost to a degree
similar to CF: there are custom tags to prepopulate forms with data, to
improve form validation and error handling, to iterate over a collection,
and lots more. Do check out the article if you're not familiar with it.

The only thing is that the article doesn't discuss implementing it with any
particular servlet engine. Many may presume that it only works with TomCat
(since both Struts and TomCat are apache projects), but on more careful
reading the author just refers to "the servlet engine" generically, leaving
the implication that it may work with in. Thus, my original question: is
anyone using it with JRun. Then there's Christophe's problem below about a
particular aspect of managing the web.xml file.

Any takers?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: christophe.marchand [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:52 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Struts, JRun and  in web.xml


Hi all,

I use Struts with JRun 3.1.
It appears that Struts isn't able to read  from web.xml. In
fact, getServletConfig().getInitParameter() always returns null.

Any idea ?

Thanks a lot


~~
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RE: Attn: Sessions getting mixed up - I'd be worried JRun people!

[charles arehart]

Fair point about the jsessionid cookies being non-persistent: I work with
multiple application servers and forgot that JRun (among others) uses
non-persistent ones.

But I thought the other points would still be valid ones in helping clarify
the root cause. Of course, by now we do have an admission by Macromedia of
some problem. I was just offering some additional means to diagnose the
problem.

And to be honest, prior to Scott's note of today at 12:30, I still would
have been as inclined to work to seek these sort of additional diagnostics
for the problem. There have been other times when a problem was indicated by
support as a "bug" when it was still not reproducible and therefore not
easily solved. In such instances, they could use as much diagnostics as they
could get, and that's where I was coming from. I really wasn't meaning to
"cloud the issue".

Anyway, looks like we're heading for resolution, and that's what matters
most.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Merdinger, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 10:09 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Attn: Sessions getting mixed up - I'd be worried JRun
people!


Charles, let's not forget the point in the investigation where the JRun Tech
Support department indicated that they were able to reproduce it and called
it a bug.

The testing I did took place in a non-proxied environment, with IIS and JRun
running on the local machine.  The other client was on the same local
subnet.  I was able to reproduce the problem without leaving the local
machine at all by using a version of IE and a version of Netscape to
reproduce the problem.)

The jsessionid's are temporary browser cookies, not persistent ones.  There
is no record of them on the user's hard drive because they are only active
for the duration of that the browser is open (that's why it is critical to
close all instances of the browser between tests,  otherwise, the browser
would cache them).

I don't mean to be difficult, but I don't want the issue to get clouded.
Macromedia identified this behavior as a problem with their software.  I
quote from the email where I asked to not be charged for the tech support
incident:

"You will not be charged for this incident as we have found a bug."

How much more clear can this get?

Richard

-Original Message-
From: charles arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:55 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Attn: Sessions getting mixed up - I'd be worried JRun
people!


It would be interesting in the testing to also write out or simply compare
the value of the cookie used to track the session, to see if a) it's there
or b) it's different than it had been in previous invocations of the test.
You may find some pattern (which as other posts have suggested could
indicate that the browser is stopping the cookie from being sent along with
the request).

It's important to consider in evaluating this problem:
- what cookie is being presented by the browser to the server. That is what
will trigger JRun's recognition of the session.
- if it's not there, then JRun will do URL rewriting. In that case, it's
just doing what it's supposed to, and the culprit would seem to be the
browser for not presenting the cookie.
- if it's different than it had been previously, then immediately one should
look at the cookie stored in the browser (for IE, on a Win2k machine, it's
stored in C:\Documents and Settings\\Cookies as something like
@.txt   where  is the userid the user is
logged into on the server and  is the domain name of the site
being browsed.  If the cookie stored on the browser isn't the same as the
cookie being reported in the JSP/servlet, then something is happening
between the browser and Jrun. It could be a proxy (on the client's machine,
or on their ISP if dialing in, or in the network in a corporate site), it
could be a problem in the web server (if it's stepping in before passing the
request to the browser).
- if the cookie being reported is different than it had been on a previous
execution of the test, but it's indeed the same cookie found within the
browser, then one has to think that something caused a new cookie to be sent
to the browser (otherwise it wouldn't be different than the previous run).
Again, either the web server or JRun could be at fault there.

So I'm just suggesting that sorting out this sort of problem involves
identifying any of several moving parts. The theories offered by others
about IE (and possible its content filtering) seem reasonable. And the fact
that you're finding that URL re-writing is "suddenly" taking place is
another strong clue. Having a test of the cookie values is the best
diagnostic I could think of.

As far as the fact that it seems that a cookie or URL sessionid for "som

RE: find different data between 2 tables

[charles arehart]

Though no one suggested it, there are indeed tools that can help with this.
One would be Red-gate SQL Data Compare. See www.red-gate.com.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Sam Jia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:35 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: find different data between 2 tables


Hi there

question is:
I have 2 tables in MS SQL server 2000 with same structure. the data of 1st
table may changed by insert, update, and delete query. for each fixed
period, i want all these changes(new difference) of the 1st table during
that period applied to the 2nd table. is there any build in command for this
purpose? or there are other solutions.

thanks





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RE: Attn: Sessions getting mixed up - I'd be worried JRun people!

[charles arehart]

It would be interesting in the testing to also write out or simply compare
the value of the cookie used to track the session, to see if a) it's there
or b) it's different than it had been in previous invocations of the test.
You may find some pattern (which as other posts have suggested could
indicate that the browser is stopping the cookie from being sent along with
the request).

It's important to consider in evaluating this problem:
- what cookie is being presented by the browser to the server. That is what
will trigger JRun's recognition of the session.
- if it's not there, then JRun will do URL rewriting. In that case, it's
just doing what it's supposed to, and the culprit would seem to be the
browser for not presenting the cookie.
- if it's different than it had been previously, then immediately one should
look at the cookie stored in the browser (for IE, on a Win2k machine, it's
stored in C:\Documents and Settings\\Cookies as something like
@.txt   where  is the userid the user is
logged into on the server and  is the domain name of the site
being browsed.  If the cookie stored on the browser isn't the same as the
cookie being reported in the JSP/servlet, then something is happening
between the browser and Jrun. It could be a proxy (on the client's machine,
or on their ISP if dialing in, or in the network in a corporate site), it
could be a problem in the web server (if it's stepping in before passing the
request to the browser).
- if the cookie being reported is different than it had been on a previous
execution of the test, but it's indeed the same cookie found within the
browser, then one has to think that something caused a new cookie to be sent
to the browser (otherwise it wouldn't be different than the previous run).
Again, either the web server or JRun could be at fault there.

So I'm just suggesting that sorting out this sort of problem involves
identifying any of several moving parts. The theories offered by others
about IE (and possible its content filtering) seem reasonable. And the fact
that you're finding that URL re-writing is "suddenly" taking place is
another strong clue. Having a test of the cookie values is the best
diagnostic I could think of.

As far as the fact that it seems that a cookie or URL sessionid for "someone
else's session" is being sent, it would seem valuable then to track WHICH
users end up sharing session ids. This would indeed suggest some other
potentially strange problem and tracking which are sharing them may provide
even further ammunition to diagnose the problem.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Merdinger, Richard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 6:59 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Attn: Sessions getting mixed up - I'd be worried JRun
people!


Hi all:
This is a result of the app server *assigning* the same jsessionid to two
different client requests.  These requests can come from different users on
different machines using different browser manufacturers.  I've done it,
I've reproduced it with a FRESH JRun installation with a FRESH JRun server
instance with a FRESH application context.  There was one file in the web
named index.jsp.  All it did was to <%= session.getID() %> (pardon the
syntax, I'm in a hurry)

Both I and a guy in an adjacent cube would
1.  Go to the suspect URL
2.  compare the session ID's
3.  If they were different, we would close the browser completely and
repeat.

eventually, we would both see the same jsessionid on the screen.

The one telltale symptom was that, even though we were using cookies, the
url string was rewritten to include the "?jsessionid=" when the problem
arose.

I gave the tech folks at JRun support the instructions on how to do it and
they reproduced it.

It was a confirmed bug by the JRun tech folks, and they stated so in an
email.

What they did about it, I don't know.  I would appreciate them telling us,
though.

--Rich
-Original Message-
From: michael veit [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 11:59 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Re: Attn: Sessions getting mixed up - I'd be worried JRun
people!


I think I see what you mean - since it JRun is just
looking for a cookie to decide whether the session is
new or not. gotcha.

did u see Rich Merdingers post? I think he is saying
that Allaire has knows about the bug..I am trying to
confirm with him.






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RE: cfservlet problem -- server local.properties in JRun overwritten

[charles arehart]

I've found this problem occurs if and when you re-run the external web
server connector wizard.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Nick Gompper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 2:43 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: cfservlet problem -- server local.properties in JRun
overwritten


Please excuse the cross-posting.

I've been experimenting with the CFSERVLET tag and have successfully enabled
CF to run servlets from an external machine within the default application
of JRun's default server.

In order to make this connection, I modified the local.properties file of
the default server to specify jcp.endpoint.main.bindaddress=x.x.x.x instead
of jcp.endpoint.main.bindaddress={default}
(see Charlie Arehart's related thread at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jrun-interest/message/13825).  I'm not sure
what the "default" ip number is (where are these defaults specified?), but
it didn't work with .

After changing this line in local.properties, the CFSERVLET tag worked, but
in two occasions since then JRun has chosen to overwrite the line with the
original default version.  It is not clear to me why this has occurred.  Can
anyone provide help here?

Thanks,

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RE: bug reports (was "RE: AutoCommit bug with Connection pool")

[Charles Arehart]

t/deploy/src/sample/entity/bmp/CustomerBMPObject_Stub.java:213) at
jrun__ejb_client__find_customer_bmp2ejsp21._jspService(jrun__ejb_client__fin
d_customer_bmp2ejsp21.java:56) at
allaire.jrun.jsp.HttpJSPServlet.service(../jsp/HttpJSPServlet.java:39) at
allaire.jrun.jsp.JSPServlet.service(../jsp/JSPServlet.java:228) at
allaire.jrun.jsp.JSPServlet.service(../jsp/JSPServlet.java:196) at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JRunSE.service(../servlet/JRunSE.java:1416) at
allaire.jrun.session.JRunSessionService.service(../session/JRunSessionServic
e.java:1082) at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JRunSE.runServlet(../servlet/JRunSE.java:1270) at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JRunRequestDispatcher.forward(../servlet/JRunRequestDis
patcher.java:89) at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JRunSE.service(../servlet/JRunSE.java:1552) at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JRunSE.service(../servlet/JRunSE.java:1542) at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JvmContext.dispatch(../servlet/JvmContext.java:364) at
allaire.jrun.jrpp.ProxyEndpoint.run(../jrpp/ProxyEndpoint.java:388) at
allaire.jrun.ThreadPool.run(../ThreadPool.java:272) at
allaire.jrun.WorkerThread.run(../WorkerThread.java:75) Exception: [15:19:46]
java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Operation disallowed on pooled
connections
Attached Template:  Here is all steps and some explanation code snippets.
Environment : JRun 3.1. Oracle 8i, JDBC driver-classes12.zip Download :
related zip file from \\uscamfilp003\rdpublic\Bugs *) JAR file includes all
EJB java source codes. 1. Create JBDC datasource, name it 'CustomerDB' in
JMC. CustomerDB table exists in ts_nimitz Oracle database. The table looks
like this. SQL> desc customerdb Name Null? Type
-   CUSTOMERID
NOT NULL VARCHAR2(50) FIRSTNAME VARCHAR2(50) LASTNAME VARCHAR2(50)
CUSTOMERINFO CLOB *) Make sure it has CLOB datatype. 2. Deploy
sample_customer_bmp.jar in your target server. *) Make sure to put this line
in your deploy.properties when to deploy ejb.allowedIdentities=all 3. Put
find_customer_bmp.jsp in your application 4. Run find_customer_bmp.jsp in
your application 5. Open the server-err.log file. Oracle error message will
be found there. More detail information about this BMP ejb. package :
sample.entity.bmp jar : sample_customer_bmp.jar JNDI name : CustomerEJB
Focus : ejbLoad() method. Inside of ejbLoad() method, it will look like ...
public void ejbLoad() { // To do here customerid = (String)
context.getPrimaryKey(); Connection con = null; PreparedStatement pstmt =
null; String sql = "SELECT * FROM CUSTOMERDB WHERE customerid=? for update";
try { con = ds.getConnection(); // Customized Transaction
con.setAutoCommit(false); System.err.println("Commit Status after
setAutoCommit(false) : "+con.getAutoCommit()); pstmt =
con.prepareStatement(sql); pstmt.setString(1, customerid); ResultSet rs =
pstmt.executeQuery(); if (rs.next()) { firstname =
rs.getString("FIRSTNAME"); lastname = rs.getString("LASTNAME"); //
CustomerInfo is Clob datatype Clob cb = rs.getClob("CUSTOMERINFO");
InputStream input = cb.getAsciiStream(); byte[] content = new
byte[(int)cb.length()]; input.read(content); this.customerinfo = new
String(content); } else { throw new NoSuchEntityException("Row not found:" +
customerid); } System.err.println("AutoCommit Satus in ejbLoad() : " +
con.getAutoCommit()); con.commit(); con.setAutoCommit(true); }
catch(SQLException se) { se.printStackTrace(); try { if(con != null)
con.rollback(); }catch(SQLException ser) { throw new EJBException("exception
during rollback"+ser.getMessage()); } throw new EJBException("exception
during ejbLoad"+se.getMessage()); } catch(IOException ie) { throw new
EJBException("exception in input stream"); } finally{ try{ if(con != null)
con.close(); } catch(SQLException se) { throw new EJBException("exception
while closing connection"); } } System.out.println("["+(new
java.util.Date())+"] CustomerBMP is loaded"); } // end of ejbLoad() ... When
the customer use CLOB datatype with 'for update' clause, it requires
con.setAutoCommit(false) first, and then do the operation and then commit.
But in this case, JRun doesn't set it to false, so eventually it throws
ORA-01002 SQLException. If they don't use 'for update' clause and db
transaction(setAutoCommit()/commit()/rollback()), it works fine. But the
customer's business rule requires to use 'for update' clause for updating
CLOB data.
URL:  http://
QA Information:
Verified?:  Yes
Date:  09/06/01"
Classified as:  Bug
Bug Fixed?:  1
Date:  08/29/01
In (Release):
http://beta.allaire.com



-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 4:48 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: bug reports (was "RE: AutoCommit bug with Connection pool")


That's an interesting problem, and I hope someone offers a response to it.
Can I 

RE: Cached Queries

[Charles Arehart]

While you await an answer to that, are you aware that you can at least mimic
CF's variable-based query caching by assigning q query resultset to a
persistent scope (such as session or application)?

I suppose you're referring to the CACHEDWITHIN and CACHEDAFTER attributes of
CFQUERY. I'm sure many readers here will not be aware of that, so it may
help to explain it so that they can offer JSP/servlet/tag library
alternatives. These attributes of CFQUERY (which is CF's way to pass to a
given datasource the SQL string to be processed) allow one to indicate that
if the given query has been cached within a given time span (using
CACHEDWITHIN) or as of a given date/time (with CACHEDAFTER), then the query
is not really executed against the datasource but is instead retrieve from a
cache automatically. It's nice (though it has its drawbacks).

What's particularly useful is that the mere addition of either of these
attributes to your query will cause CF to use the cache and manage its
refreshing for you. No need to test for the cache, or manage the timespans,
etc. It's handled for you.

In fact, another cool thing is that the cache is shared among all
applications (in effect, in what CF calls a "server" scope), such that if
two applications run the same query against the same datasource using the
same SQL (and any related parameters such as userid/password, etc) and they
both used one of these CACHED attributes, they will share the same cache.


/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Stacy Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:47 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Cached Queries


Anyone know of a taglib that replicates CF's query caching ability?


-Original Message-
From: Jackie Comeau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:17 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: JRun shared hosting


This question gets asked a lot. Did you check the archives?

On Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:53 PM, Drew Falkman
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> Hello all-
>
> Does anyone know of somewhere to host a personal site for a reasonable
> price that offers the use of JRun?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Drew Falkman
>


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RE: books on db design

[Charles Arehart]

Some classics, designed with beginners in mind (and therefore not perfect
but accessible), include:
Database Design for Mere Mortals, Michael Hernandez
Relational Database Design Clearly Explained, Jan Harrington

Though I've not read them, the following look interesting:
Database Solutions: A Step-by-Step Guide to Building Databases, Thomas
Connolly
Database Design, Ronald Pew (from Sams, whose books are generally pretty
good)

And a classic has been recently updated:
Practical SQL Handbook, Judith Bowman (with a section on design, but lots
of other goodies)

Of course, there are many others. A search of amazon or fatbrain for
"database design" will yield dozens of others, including some for specific
databases (Access, SQL Server, DB2, Oracle, etc.)  And though DB design is
DB design, I'd shy away from books older than a couple years.  Older books
tend to presume a computer science background and may not be as friendly as
more modern ones. Older books may also describe use of very old tools.
Finally, more recent ones may offer examples typical of the kind of
web-based databases (such as the portal site you mention).

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Russ Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:30 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: books on db design


hi
 im new to jrun and online db
any good books on planing a db
im tracking users sessons and changeing content depending on last time they
loged in.
(pritty much like a portal)
any help would be great.
thanks.

..russ


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bug reports (was "RE: AutoCommit bug with Connection pool")

[Charles Arehart]

That's an interesting problem, and I hope someone offers a response to it.
Can I ask, on a different topic, where you were able get access to the bug
report? That would be interesting reading, I'm sure. Is it available
publicly somewhere?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Paap, Keith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:59 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: AutoCommit bug with Connection pool


I posted this in the support forum and am also sending this out to the
mailing list in case anyone has any suggestions.  There is a problem getting
the autocommit status set to false in JRun 3.1  (Bug 27034)  After
attempting to call a rollback() or commit() on the connection the following
exception is thrown:

java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: Operation disallowed on pooled
connections;at
allaire.ejipt._ejb._Connection.commit(allaire/ejipt/_ejb/_Connection.java:26
5)

Digging a little further into the problem report it appears as though the
problem lies in the ability to setAutoCommit to false.  It remains true at
all times.

The bug report status shows as closed and the severity is listed as a benign
bug with a workaround.  However no workaround is provided.  Please let me
know if anyone is aware of how I could implement a workaround.  The response
on the bug report states the following:

"This is because the ejipt doesn't implement autocommit in
allaire/ejipt/_ejb/_Connection.java. However, Jrun does implement the
autocommit in allaire\jrun\sql\ConnectionProxy.java. I did a quick
modification to _ejb/_connection.java (copied the implementation from
ConnectionProxy.java, and ignored the exception msg). The code is messy, and
it take long time to execute, but it works. I am putting the code under
\\uscamfilp003\rdpublic\Bugs\27034 in case some one want to look at it."

There is no mention of this fix being incorporated in any hotfix or future
releases of JRun.  This creates a problem since there are a number of
business needs to be able to control the autocommit status of a connection.

Based on the earlier posts in this thread, this was not a problem in JRun
3.0.   Our next step will be to attempt to set up a 3.0 server and retest
this code to see if we can continue with development.  Other options might
be to go so a separate pooling process by a 3rd party (JTurbo, others?).  If
anyone has any other suggestions please share.

TIA
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RE: JRun Elite or Free version.

[Charles Arehart]

That would be the "developer edition". I can see how you might not be able
to find that. In looking at a couple of the pages one would use to look for
it, it's not there. Maybe there's an intention to guide people instead to
the paid versions.

It's not listed on:

http://www.allaire.com/products/jrun/productinformation/jrunserver/index.cfm
http://www.allaire.com/handlers/index.cfm?id=21489&method=full
http://dynamic.macromedia.com/bin/MM/store/US/product.jsp?category=/Software
/Server/StandAlones/JRunP&type=FULL

But if you go to the download page, you'll indeed see it listed as an option
for download:
http://www.macromedia.com/software/jrun/trial/

(It may be interesting note, for any MM people who might be curious about
all this, that the "datasheet" page:
http://www.allaire.com/products/jrun/productinformation/datasheets/index.cfm

linked from the product info page refers just to 3.0, not 3.1. The actual
datasheet page:
http://www.allaire.com/products/jrun/productinformation/datasheets/jrunserve
r.cfm

Also refers to 3.0 rather than 3.1.  But it does indeed mention the
developer edition, where it's described as "The Developer Edition is
available for free electronically" and later "Offering all the features of
the commercial server, the Developer Edition is licensed only for
development and is limited to three concurrent connections."

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Simonin, Bradley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 1:37 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: JRun Elite or Free version.


Hello.  At one time Allaire offered a free version of JRun for
non-for-profit organizations and educational use; I think it was called JRun
Elite.  Maybe back in the JRun 2.3.0 version.  Is that available with the
latest version of JRun?

Thanks in Advance.


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RE: CFServlet problem/questions

[Charles Arehart]

OK, I can say now that I too am able to run the servlets in the demo app. As
Christof said, by putting the path to the demo-app classes file in the JMC's
Java settings for the default server, I can indeed run demo app servlets via
CFServlet. Unlike Christof, I used
{jrun.rootdir}/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes as the path. I don't
know why it failed to work previously. If anyone can confirm it works for
them, I'm sure some at Macromedia will be interested to hear this, as it
seems counter to the understanding of many to now.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Christof Wessely [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:32 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions


Charles,

Yes it does work on my Computer: Win2000, IIS 5.0, Jrun Developer
Edition 3.1, ColdFusion Professional 5.0, Sun JDK 1.3.1

Here is my full classpath
D:/jdk1.3.1/src.jar
{jrun.rootdir}/servers/lib
{jrun.server.rootdir}/lib
D:/JRun/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes

Here is my ColdFusion page (index.cfm):




Test


hello coldfusion here.




I also tried the SimpleServlet, works as well.

Although I cannot see how that should make any difference: I use fixed
IP addresses (not the 127.0.0.1 as indicated above).

Chris

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RE: CFServlet problem/questions

[Charles Arehart]

Thanks, Chris. I did indeed make the change in that java settings part of
the JMC for the default server. Unfortunately, it's still not working (even
after a restart), and in a previous note John Zhao suggested it really
shouldn't work.

Are you sure that making the change you suggest is allowing you to run
demo-app servlets from within CFServlet?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Christof Wessely [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 6:50 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions


Charles,

I just added the absolute path to the classpath in the Management
Console -Jrun Default Server - Java Settings.
Do you still have the problem?

Chris

-Original Message-
From: John Zhao [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 10 September 2001 19:30
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions

Christof's workaround is the same as adding the servlet class files into
default app classes directory.  The base line is you can only use
CFServlet
to access any servlets available to default app at the moment.

-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:58 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions


So you're saying, Chris, that making this modification would change the
behavior to allow CFServlet to run servlets in other than the default
app?
Where, specifically, would you make the change to the classpath?

I changed it in the JMC for the default server to add the line:
{jrun.rootdir}/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes

to the classpath specification (modelling it after the other entries
there).
After restarting the server, I still couldn't run a servlet in the named
demo directory. I also tried forcing it to the actual path, D:/Program
Files/Allaire/JRun31/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes (which I
copied from Windows Explorer's display of the path to avoid typos,
reversing
the slashes as shown). Still no dice.

Did you mean to make the change anywhere else? A specific property file
entry, or in the command line that starts JRun?

Can any Macromedia folks vouch for whether this proposed work-around
would
work? It's an interesting idea, suggesting that the classpath could be
searched for servlets. I still like the idea of specifying the intended
webapp/context in the CFServlet.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Christof Wessely [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 11:34 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions


My answer got somehow lost, so I try again:

Charles,

I have done a bit of work with ColdFusion and Jrun working together and
share your views about documentation.

I have a solution for your problem, but it is not an expert one.

If you add something like the following entry to the classpath
definition of the Jrun default server:
D:/JRun/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes
(make sure that you are using forward slashes, always restart the
default server after changes to the classpath)


then the following coldfusion code will work:

 

Untitled


hello coldfusion here

 

Cheers,

Chris

-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 07 September 2001 03:49
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions

Got a solution to the CFServlet problem from Randy Nielsen of
Macromedia,
and it turns out to be quite an interesting dilemma that surprised even
him.
He got the solution from John Zhao. Thanks to both for patient and able
assistance! :-)

The problem (and reason why it failed in this case when it had worked
elsewhere) was that I was trying to run the test against the demo
servlets
installed with JRun. Turns out that "In order to provide compatibility
with
JRun 2.3.3, which did not have the concept of a Web application, the
CF/JRun
engineers restricted CFSERVLET to accessing the default application only
(the default app is under /servers/default/default-app). ")

Yowsa. Take note, kids. This applies to more than just the demo apps, of
course. If you create your own apps other than the default app, you
won't be
able to run CFServlet against them. (Anyone have experience to suggest
otherwise?)

Randy offered to update the LiveDocs CF and JRun pages to reflect this
knowledge (and I suggested a KB article would be welcome). He also will
log
it as an enhancement (or bug). Any opinions? I suggested that it could
be
fixed with a new attribute that allowed specification of the context
(web
app) to be used, if other then "default-app".

/charlie

PS One other thing. I did have to make those updates listed below to
local.properties, even though they should have been done by running the
connector. I think what happened is that I'd run the connector in 3.0,
then
installed 3.1, which reverted them back to blank values. My IIS
connection
was indeed working, even though these were blank, suggesting I&#

RE: CFServlet problem/questions

[Charles Arehart]

I appreciate your stepping in, John. I'm confused, though: you say Chris'
workaround is "same as adding the servlet class files into default app
classes directory", but it's really not what he was asserting. He said to
"add something like the following entry to the classpath definition of the
Jrun default server: D:/JRun/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes".

Clearly, his intent was to be able to run demo-app servlets. I realize that
the current line of thinking is that only default-app servlets are
accessible, which is why he was offering a work-around.

Chris, the workaround didn't work for me, and it sounds like John's saying
it shouldn't work at all. Are you sure it really worked for you? :-)

/charlie

PS FWIW, I'm running CF5 and Jrun 3.1 on Win2k.

-Original Message-
From: John Zhao [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:30 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions


Christof's workaround is the same as adding the servlet class files into
default app classes directory.  The base line is you can only use CFServlet
to access any servlets available to default app at the moment.

-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:58 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions


So you're saying, Chris, that making this modification would change the
behavior to allow CFServlet to run servlets in other than the default app?
Where, specifically, would you make the change to the classpath?

I changed it in the JMC for the default server to add the line:
{jrun.rootdir}/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes

to the classpath specification (modelling it after the other entries there).
After restarting the server, I still couldn't run a servlet in the named
demo directory. I also tried forcing it to the actual path, D:/Program
Files/Allaire/JRun31/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes (which I
copied from Windows Explorer's display of the path to avoid typos, reversing
the slashes as shown). Still no dice.

Did you mean to make the change anywhere else? A specific property file
entry, or in the command line that starts JRun?

Can any Macromedia folks vouch for whether this proposed work-around would
work? It's an interesting idea, suggesting that the classpath could be
searched for servlets. I still like the idea of specifying the intended
webapp/context in the CFServlet.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Christof Wessely [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 11:34 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions


My answer got somehow lost, so I try again:

Charles,

I have done a bit of work with ColdFusion and Jrun working together and
share your views about documentation.

I have a solution for your problem, but it is not an expert one.

If you add something like the following entry to the classpath
definition of the Jrun default server:
D:/JRun/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes
(make sure that you are using forward slashes, always restart the
default server after changes to the classpath)


then the following coldfusion code will work:

 

Untitled


hello coldfusion here

 

Cheers,

Chris

-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 07 September 2001 03:49
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions

Got a solution to the CFServlet problem from Randy Nielsen of
Macromedia,
and it turns out to be quite an interesting dilemma that surprised even
him.
He got the solution from John Zhao. Thanks to both for patient and able
assistance! :-)

The problem (and reason why it failed in this case when it had worked
elsewhere) was that I was trying to run the test against the demo
servlets
installed with JRun. Turns out that "In order to provide compatibility
with
JRun 2.3.3, which did not have the concept of a Web application, the
CF/JRun
engineers restricted CFSERVLET to accessing the default application only
(the default app is under /servers/default/default-app). ")

Yowsa. Take note, kids. This applies to more than just the demo apps, of
course. If you create your own apps other than the default app, you
won't be
able to run CFServlet against them. (Anyone have experience to suggest
otherwise?)

Randy offered to update the LiveDocs CF and JRun pages to reflect this
knowledge (and I suggested a KB article would be welcome). He also will
log
it as an enhancement (or bug). Any opinions? I suggested that it could
be
fixed with a new attribute that allowed specification of the context
(web
app) to be used, if other then "default-app".

/charlie

PS One other thing. I did have to make those updates listed below to
local.properties, even though they should have been done by running the
connector. I think what happened is that I'd run the connector in 3.0,
then
installed 3.1

RE: How to stop CFSERVLET from passing URL variables to servlet?

[Charles Arehart]

That *is* interesting behavior, Mark. Good catch.

Anyone can demonstrate it by running the demo SnoopServlet that comes with
JRun (which simply reflects all request data passed to the servlet). Of
course, as we've discussed recently, you have to move that
SnoopServlet.class file (and the JRunDemoServlet.class file which it
extends) to the servers\default\default-app\WEB-INF\classes directory.

As for the behavior Mark refers to, there's no attribute that tells
CFServlet to pass that info along. I suppose it might have been designed to
act like a forward in JSP/servlets, passing along all the request data
passed to the template doing the call to CFServlet.

One more curiosity (that argues against that previous assertion): if form
data is posted to the page doing the CFServlet call (there are CF Form
variables on the page), those are NOT passed along automatically in the same
way. So it's inconsistent, and this passing of the query string would seem a
bug.

Any thoughts from the fine Macromedia folks? (BTW, I just observed that more
than 10 different MACR people have contributed replies to this list in the
last month alone. Thanks very much for that support!)

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Gaulin, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 12:59 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: How to stop CFSERVLET from passing URL variables to servlet?


Hi Folks
Not sure if this is the best place for the CF/Jrun question, but someone out
there must have seen this one before...

It appears that cfservlet appends the CGI.QUERY_STRING parameters to any
cfservlet call, even when cfservletparam is used to override some of them
(and the QUERY_STRING version wins).  Anybody know how to turn this off?
I'm still using CFX_JRUN to invoke servlets because of this issue.

Versions: NT, CF 4.5 (or 5.0, if that helps), Jrun 3.0 (or 3.1, if that
helps).

Thanks
~~
Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/jrun-talk@houseoffusion.com/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists

RE: CFServlet problem/questions

[Charles Arehart]

So you're saying, Chris, that making this modification would change the
behavior to allow CFServlet to run servlets in other than the default app?
Where, specifically, would you make the change to the classpath?

I changed it in the JMC for the default server to add the line:
{jrun.rootdir}/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes

to the classpath specification (modelling it after the other entries there).
After restarting the server, I still couldn't run a servlet in the named
demo directory. I also tried forcing it to the actual path, D:/Program
Files/Allaire/JRun31/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes (which I
copied from Windows Explorer's display of the path to avoid typos, reversing
the slashes as shown). Still no dice.

Did you mean to make the change anywhere else? A specific property file
entry, or in the command line that starts JRun?

Can any Macromedia folks vouch for whether this proposed work-around would
work? It's an interesting idea, suggesting that the classpath could be
searched for servlets. I still like the idea of specifying the intended
webapp/context in the CFServlet.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Christof Wessely [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 11:34 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions


My answer got somehow lost, so I try again:

Charles,

I have done a bit of work with ColdFusion and Jrun working together and
share your views about documentation.

I have a solution for your problem, but it is not an expert one.

If you add something like the following entry to the classpath
definition of the Jrun default server:
D:/JRun/servers/default/demo-app/WEB-INF/classes
(make sure that you are using forward slashes, always restart the
default server after changes to the classpath)


then the following coldfusion code will work:

 

Untitled


hello coldfusion here

 

Cheers,

Chris

-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 07 September 2001 03:49
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFServlet problem/questions

Got a solution to the CFServlet problem from Randy Nielsen of
Macromedia,
and it turns out to be quite an interesting dilemma that surprised even
him.
He got the solution from John Zhao. Thanks to both for patient and able
assistance! :-)

The problem (and reason why it failed in this case when it had worked
elsewhere) was that I was trying to run the test against the demo
servlets
installed with JRun. Turns out that "In order to provide compatibility
with
JRun 2.3.3, which did not have the concept of a Web application, the
CF/JRun
engineers restricted CFSERVLET to accessing the default application only
(the default app is under /servers/default/default-app). ")

Yowsa. Take note, kids. This applies to more than just the demo apps, of
course. If you create your own apps other than the default app, you
won't be
able to run CFServlet against them. (Anyone have experience to suggest
otherwise?)

Randy offered to update the LiveDocs CF and JRun pages to reflect this
knowledge (and I suggested a KB article would be welcome). He also will
log
it as an enhancement (or bug). Any opinions? I suggested that it could
be
fixed with a new attribute that allowed specification of the context
(web
app) to be used, if other then "default-app".

/charlie

PS One other thing. I did have to make those updates listed below to
local.properties, even though they should have been done by running the
connector. I think what happened is that I'd run the connector in 3.0,
then
installed 3.1, which reverted them back to blank values. My IIS
connection
was indeed working, even though these were blank, suggesting I'd not run
the
connector in 3.1. Hope that may be useful for others.

-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 9:38 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: CFServlet problem/questions


Folks, this is a long-ish note with a few questions about trials and
tribulations of getting CFServlet to work on a new machine and Jrun
install--first getting "Could not connect to JRun Connector Proxy", then
after some tweaking getting "404 file not found, could not get
dispatcher".

I know this sort of problem has been raised in the list before, and I
researched the archives and applied some suggested fixes, yet still I'm
not
able to solve the problem. Well, I was able to change the problem.

I'd appreciate the attention of kindly souls willing to work through it.
I've tried to provide lots of useful info, both for solving the problem
and
for future users who may read this in the archives and have similar
problems.

But besides just asking how to fix the problem, I'd like to ask a few
other
questions about using the tag which seem rather sparsely documented,
especially in the CF docs.

(For you JRun users not using ColdFusion, it's a way within CF to ca

RE: Cannot install JRun 3.1 after uninstalling JRun 3.0

[Charles Arehart]

And ya do the hokey pokey and ya turn yourself around. That's what it's all
about, sometimes. :-)

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Gene Webb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 4:59 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Cannot install JRun 3.1 after uninstalling JRun 3.0


Stop All JRun Servers that might be running

Reinstall the 3.0 again.

Reboot

Stop All JRun Servers that might be running

Uninstall 3.0

Reboot

Stop All JRun Servers that might be running

Install 3.1



Gene Webb
Vice President, eXchange Development
eeParts.com, Inc.
5550 LBJ Freeway Suite 300
Dallas, Texas, 75240

Phone: 972.628.6215
Fax: 972.490.6501
Cell: 214.704.2734

 -Original Message-
From:   Johansen, Roar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:   Thursday, September 06, 2001 05:39
To: JRun-Talk
Subject:Cannot install JRun 3.1 after uninstalling JRun 3.0

Help,
I run JRun developer edition on my desktop (NT 4.0 SP6a) for testing stuff
before deploying to a "live" JRun server. The live server runs on Solaris
2.7 and was recently successfully upgraded to 3.1. Therefore, I want to make
the same move on my desktop. I did what it took - i.e. uninstalled 3.0 and
downloaded jrun-31-win-us.exe and ran this. However, after having copied the
files, the setup tries to configure and start servers. This persistently
pops up the message
"Could not find /lib/jvms.properties file."
1. The jvms.properties is there for sure.
2. The setup has been done successfully on machines that have never seen 3.0
on their hard disks...
3. ...but others in my department who recently uninstalled 3.0 experience
the same behavior when installing 3.1
4. I logged on as local administrator, and ran the setup successfully, even
brought up the admin console. However, logging off an on with my domain
account (which I need to do to access the rest of my stuff), the same
message pops up when I try to start either admin or default server.

This used to work like a champ. Appreciate any suggestions here, am STUCK
right now...
~~
Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/jrun-talk@houseoffusion.com/
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RE: CFServlet problem/questions

[Charles Arehart]

Got a solution to the CFServlet problem from Randy Nielsen of Macromedia,
and it turns out to be quite an interesting dilemma that surprised even him.
He got the solution from John Zhao. Thanks to both for patient and able
assistance! :-)

The problem (and reason why it failed in this case when it had worked
elsewhere) was that I was trying to run the test against the demo servlets
installed with JRun. Turns out that "In order to provide compatibility with
JRun 2.3.3, which did not have the concept of a Web application, the CF/JRun
engineers restricted CFSERVLET to accessing the default application only
(the default app is under /servers/default/default-app). ")

Yowsa. Take note, kids. This applies to more than just the demo apps, of
course. If you create your own apps other than the default app, you won't be
able to run CFServlet against them. (Anyone have experience to suggest
otherwise?)

Randy offered to update the LiveDocs CF and JRun pages to reflect this
knowledge (and I suggested a KB article would be welcome). He also will log
it as an enhancement (or bug). Any opinions? I suggested that it could be
fixed with a new attribute that allowed specification of the context (web
app) to be used, if other then "default-app".

/charlie

PS One other thing. I did have to make those updates listed below to
local.properties, even though they should have been done by running the
connector. I think what happened is that I'd run the connector in 3.0, then
installed 3.1, which reverted them back to blank values. My IIS connection
was indeed working, even though these were blank, suggesting I'd not run the
connector in 3.1. Hope that may be useful for others.

-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 9:38 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: CFServlet problem/questions


Folks, this is a long-ish note with a few questions about trials and
tribulations of getting CFServlet to work on a new machine and Jrun
install--first getting "Could not connect to JRun Connector Proxy", then
after some tweaking getting "404 file not found, could not get dispatcher".

I know this sort of problem has been raised in the list before, and I
researched the archives and applied some suggested fixes, yet still I'm not
able to solve the problem. Well, I was able to change the problem.

I'd appreciate the attention of kindly souls willing to work through it.
I've tried to provide lots of useful info, both for solving the problem and
for future users who may read this in the archives and have similar
problems.

But besides just asking how to fix the problem, I'd like to ask a few other
questions about using the tag which seem rather sparsely documented,
especially in the CF docs.

(For you JRun users not using ColdFusion, it's a way within CF to call upon
a JRun servlet to extract its output, and even share information between the
servlet and the CF program. It's discussed in Chapter 43 of the 3.1 manual,
Developing Applications with JRun).

The docs make it seem easy enough to use:



but there are a couple of things that aren't explained. First, consider
trying to call one of the demo servlets. If it runs successfully when called
from within a browser at the URL:
http://127.0.0.1:8101/demo/servlet/DateServlet, then what would be the
correct specification of the CFServlet tag?

In other words, is the same port used in the URL to be specified in the
CFServlet? The CF docs would lead one to believe so. They read that the
ProxyPort attribute is "the port number at which JRun is listening. By
default, JRun listens at port 8081."  But the JRun docs mentioned above
instead say it should be the "JRun server connector port specified when
running the JRun Connector Wizard." Further, in the code example offered on
the same page, it says it's the port specified as the
"jcp.endpoint.main.port property in the local.properties file for the JRun
server you want to access". That's certainly different, and I think could
confuse a lot of people.

Anyway, in my case, it's listed as 51000, so the tag becomes 

Now about the class. Some newcomers may be really confused by this. In the
URL from the browser, we needed to add "demo/servlet", but a message in the
archives of this list from 11/22/00 indicates that CFServlet expects to find
the class in /WEB-INF/classes subdirectory. Fortunately,
that's the case for the DateServlet demo app, so it should be able to be
specified simply as:



Unfortunately, I get the dreaded "Could not connect to JRun Connector
Proxy". Could it be that the port 51000 is conflicting with some other
application using that port? (This machine also has CF5, with the built-in
JRun services it offers for doing CFGraph and the new management services).

In fact, that raises another question: is there a tool that will hel

CFServlet problem/questions

[Charles Arehart]

Folks, this is a long-ish note with a few questions about trials and
tribulations of getting CFServlet to work on a new machine and Jrun
install--first getting "Could not connect to JRun Connector Proxy", then
after some tweaking getting "404 file not found, could not get dispatcher".

I know this sort of problem has been raised in the list before, and I
researched the archives and applied some suggested fixes, yet still I'm not
able to solve the problem. Well, I was able to change the problem.

I'd appreciate the attention of kindly souls willing to work through it.
I've tried to provide lots of useful info, both for solving the problem and
for future users who may read this in the archives and have similar
problems.

But besides just asking how to fix the problem, I'd like to ask a few other
questions about using the tag which seem rather sparsely documented,
especially in the CF docs.

(For you JRun users not using ColdFusion, it's a way within CF to call upon
a JRun servlet to extract its output, and even share information between the
servlet and the CF program. It's discussed in Chapter 43 of the 3.1 manual,
Developing Applications with JRun).

The docs make it seem easy enough to use:



but there are a couple of things that aren't explained. First, consider
trying to call one of the demo servlets. If it runs successfully when called
from within a browser at the URL:
http://127.0.0.1:8101/demo/servlet/DateServlet, then what would be the
correct specification of the CFServlet tag?

In other words, is the same port used in the URL to be specified in the
CFServlet? The CF docs would lead one to believe so. They read that the
ProxyPort attribute is "the port number at which JRun is listening. By
default, JRun listens at port 8081."  But the JRun docs mentioned above
instead say it should be the "JRun server connector port specified when
running the JRun Connector Wizard." Further, in the code example offered on
the same page, it says it's the port specified as the
"jcp.endpoint.main.port property in the local.properties file for the JRun
server you want to access". That's certainly different, and I think could
confuse a lot of people.

Anyway, in my case, it's listed as 51000, so the tag becomes 

Now about the class. Some newcomers may be really confused by this. In the
URL from the browser, we needed to add "demo/servlet", but a message in the
archives of this list from 11/22/00 indicates that CFServlet expects to find
the class in /WEB-INF/classes subdirectory. Fortunately,
that's the case for the DateServlet demo app, so it should be able to be
specified simply as:



Unfortunately, I get the dreaded "Could not connect to JRun Connector
Proxy". Could it be that the port 51000 is conflicting with some other
application using that port? (This machine also has CF5, with the built-in
JRun services it offers for doing CFGraph and the new management services).

In fact, that raises another question: is there a tool that will help
identify what ports are already taken by running applications, so that if
this is indeed a conflict I can know which other apps use this port, and
which ports are free to be used?

Still, that may all be a red herring. I read yet another message in the
archive (from 9/10/2001) that suggested the following changes:

In local.properties file.

1. Add the letters jcp to the servlets.services line.
servlet.services=jndi,jdbc,web,mail,url,{servlet.webapps},jcp

2. Set the JCP bind address to the IP address.
jcp.endpoint.main.bindaddress=x.x.x.x

I did that, changing the bindaddress to 127.0.0.1. When I restarted the
server, I now see in the default-event.log:

09/05 20:58:14 info (jcp) jcp listening on 127.0.0.1:51000

That line wasn't there before in the log, so is this suggestion of needing
to add the jcp to servlet.services correct? If so, why isn't it documented?
And is my use of bindaddress correct? I'm just doing this testing on a
localhost. Even if this were a production server, where the CF and Jrun
servers were on the same machine, would 127.0.0.1 be ok to use?

Still, when I ran the CFServlet code above I got "404 Not Found
Could not get dispatcher"

I feel so close, but it's late, and while I might find this on my own with
more work, I do wonder if others may have had similar experiences and would
appreciate this rambling tale of woe. :-)

The event log entry is:

09/05 20:59:07 info (JRun) com.allaire.jrun.cfx.CFServletInvoker: init
09/05 20:59:07 warning (JRun) Got an exception in getNamedDispatcher.
[java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: DateServlet [DateServlet]]
java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: DateServlet [DateServlet]
at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JRunServletLoader.loadClass(../servlet/JRunServletLoade
r.java:430)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:253)
at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JRunServletLoader.loadServletInstance(../servlet/JRunSe
rvletLoader.java:194)
at
allaire.jrun.servlet.JRunServletLoader.loadServletInstance(../servle

RE: JRun Studio?

[Charles Arehart]

Well, for one thing, it's got a built in interface to the Java compiler to
facilitate compiling servlets and beans. Though indeed there may be still
better editors with even more robust hooks for compiling and other java code
editing features, at least if one's happy with the Studio environment,
having that hook is better than having to drop out of Studio to compile.

There's also the ability to debug pages. While Studio can debug CF pages, it
does so by built-in communications to CF Server. Though I've not tried it, I
wonder if indeed it (CF Studio) could be used to debug JSP pages. Maybe
someone else can say.

Still, there's no denying that using CF Studio for editing JSP pages would
be vastly better than editing with just notepad. Then again, for editing
servlets and beans, other editors may offer a good bit more than even JRun
Studio.

I'd be curious to hear what others are using for these various needs as
well.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Rich Tretola [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:47 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: JRun Studio?


What does JRun studio offer that makes it easier to use than using CF Studio
with the jsp toolbar?

Thanks,
Rich
~~
Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
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RE: "jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")

[Charles Arehart]

Thanks for that. Are you saying that you run the jrun.exe in jrun\bin as
"jrun -version" and get that response?

Also, you say one will have problems if user.javaargs in local.properties
has been changed. In my case, it's the default (user.javaargs={default}). I
must say that another aspect of this answer seems suspicious: how would
running the Jrun command at the bin directory would know which Jrun server
to look to open local.properties? I'd appreciate any thoughts this.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Johansen, Roar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:24 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: "jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")


Works OK:
3.1.16777
Note that "jrun -version" fires up a JVM with the "user.javaargs" settings
from local.properties. If you have changed these, problems may occur. I got
problems trying to set up for remote debugging.

Roar

-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sendt: 30. august 2001 21:03
Til: JRun-Talk
Emne: RE: "jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")


Sorry. The reference to a "-server" option was just a mistake. I meant to
say "-version", as I had said in the subject and went on to repeat a couple
times later in the document. :-)

As for it being a "fix", I just wondered if indeed the "jrun -version"
command should work and for some reason it's not working for me. I'll be
curious if anyone else can have it work, otherwise, sure, making the KB
clarify this other approach to running it would be good.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Horn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:39 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: "jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")


Charles, I forward this fix to the person responsible for fixing the KB
articles.

As for the question about the "-server" option, can you tell me where you
are reading that? As far as I know, there is no -server option.

  >>-Original Message-
  >>From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:09 PM
  >>To: JRun-Talk
  >>Subject: "jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")
  >>
  >>
  >>Thanks for the heads up, Tormod. I've got a problem for
  >>Macromedia about the
  >>instructions on that hotfix page, though. Maybe someone can
  >>help. The
  >>"Jrun -server" command isn't responding as expected.
  >>
  >>The article offers instructions about how to determine the
  >>current version
  >>for JRun, by typing "jrun -version" at the command prompt
  >>in Jrun/bin. When
  >>I do that, I instead get a pop up window listing valid JRun
  >>commands to
  >>enter, suggesting that "version" isn't one of them. (It's
  >>not that I'm not
  >>in the bin directory and the JRun command's not recognized,
  >>it's that the
  >>JRun command isn't accepting -version as an argument.)
  >>
  >>After some digging, I learned from the "Advanced
  >>Configuration Guide" that
  >>the commands (-version and -info) could be used if *sent as
  >>input to java"
  >>(on a windows platform), as in:
  >>
  >>java JRun -version
  >>
  >>This is case-sensitive (JRun, not jrun).
  >>
  >>Also jrun.jar and servlet.jar need to be in your classpath.
  >>If not, then the
  >>following verbose command would work (assuming it's entered from the
  >>location of your JRun installation, such as program
  >>files/allaire/Jrun):
  >>
  >>java -cp lib/jrun.jar;lib/ext/servlet.jar JRun -version
  >>
  >>But why didn't the JRun.exe in /bin respond as expected?
  >>
  >>If there's something wrong with those instructions, I hope
  >>a Macromedia
  >>person can get them updated. It would seem important for
  >>people to determine
  >>whether to apply the hotfix.
  >>
  >>/charlie
  >>
  >>-Original Message-
  >>From: Tormod Hystad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:36 AM
  >>To: JRun-Talk
  >>Subject: JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle
  >>
  >>
  >>Hey!
  >>
  >>There's a bugfix release of 3.1 available:
  >>
  >>http://www.allaire.com/Handlers/index.cfm?ID=21853&Method=Full
  >>
  >>This is build 16777 of JRun 3.1, the original 3.1 was build
  >>15506. Lots of
  >>bugs fixed.
  >>
  >>~ Tormod
  >>
  >>~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
  >>Tormod Hystad
  >>Senior Developer, R&D
  >>CatalystOne, Inc. - Execution excellence!
  >>
~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at 
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RE: "jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")

[Charles Arehart]

Sorry. The reference to a "-server" option was just a mistake. I meant to
say "-version", as I had said in the subject and went on to repeat a couple
times later in the document. :-)

As for it being a "fix", I just wondered if indeed the "jrun -version"
command should work and for some reason it's not working for me. I'll be
curious if anyone else can have it work, otherwise, sure, making the KB
clarify this other approach to running it would be good.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Horn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:39 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: "jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")


Charles, I forward this fix to the person responsible for fixing the KB
articles.

As for the question about the "-server" option, can you tell me where you
are reading that? As far as I know, there is no -server option.

  >>-Original Message-
  >>From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:09 PM
  >>To: JRun-Talk
  >>Subject: "jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")
  >>
  >>
  >>Thanks for the heads up, Tormod. I've got a problem for
  >>Macromedia about the
  >>instructions on that hotfix page, though. Maybe someone can
  >>help. The
  >>"Jrun -server" command isn't responding as expected.
  >>
  >>The article offers instructions about how to determine the
  >>current version
  >>for JRun, by typing "jrun -version" at the command prompt
  >>in Jrun/bin. When
  >>I do that, I instead get a pop up window listing valid JRun
  >>commands to
  >>enter, suggesting that "version" isn't one of them. (It's
  >>not that I'm not
  >>in the bin directory and the JRun command's not recognized,
  >>it's that the
  >>JRun command isn't accepting -version as an argument.)
  >>
  >>After some digging, I learned from the "Advanced
  >>Configuration Guide" that
  >>the commands (-version and -info) could be used if *sent as
  >>input to java"
  >>(on a windows platform), as in:
  >>
  >>java JRun -version
  >>
  >>This is case-sensitive (JRun, not jrun).
  >>
  >>Also jrun.jar and servlet.jar need to be in your classpath.
  >>If not, then the
  >>following verbose command would work (assuming it's entered from the
  >>location of your JRun installation, such as program
  >>files/allaire/Jrun):
  >>
  >>java -cp lib/jrun.jar;lib/ext/servlet.jar JRun -version
  >>
  >>But why didn't the JRun.exe in /bin respond as expected?
  >>
  >>If there's something wrong with those instructions, I hope
  >>a Macromedia
  >>person can get them updated. It would seem important for
  >>people to determine
  >>whether to apply the hotfix.
  >>
  >>/charlie
  >>
  >>-Original Message-
  >>From: Tormod Hystad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  >>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:36 AM
  >>To: JRun-Talk
  >>Subject: JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle
  >>
  >>
  >>Hey!
  >>
  >>There's a bugfix release of 3.1 available:
  >>
  >>http://www.allaire.com/Handlers/index.cfm?ID=21853&Method=Full
  >>
  >>This is build 16777 of JRun 3.1, the original 3.1 was build
  >>15506. Lots of
  >>bugs fixed.
  >>
  >>~ Tormod
  >>
  >>~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
  >>Tormod Hystad
  >>Senior Developer, R&D
  >>CatalystOne, Inc. - Execution excellence!
  >>
~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
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"jrun -version" command (was "JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle")

[Charles Arehart]

Thanks for the heads up, Tormod. I've got a problem for Macromedia about the
instructions on that hotfix page, though. Maybe someone can help. The
"Jrun -server" command isn't responding as expected.

The article offers instructions about how to determine the current version
for JRun, by typing "jrun -version" at the command prompt in Jrun/bin. When
I do that, I instead get a pop up window listing valid JRun commands to
enter, suggesting that "version" isn't one of them. (It's not that I'm not
in the bin directory and the JRun command's not recognized, it's that the
JRun command isn't accepting -version as an argument.)

After some digging, I learned from the "Advanced Configuration Guide" that
the commands (-version and -info) could be used if *sent as input to java"
(on a windows platform), as in:

java JRun -version

This is case-sensitive (JRun, not jrun).

Also jrun.jar and servlet.jar need to be in your classpath. If not, then the
following verbose command would work (assuming it's entered from the
location of your JRun installation, such as program files/allaire/Jrun):

java -cp lib/jrun.jar;lib/ext/servlet.jar JRun -version

But why didn't the JRun.exe in /bin respond as expected?

If there's something wrong with those instructions, I hope a Macromedia
person can get them updated. It would seem important for people to determine
whether to apply the hotfix.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Tormod Hystad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:36 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: JRun 3.1 hotfix bundle


Hey!

There's a bugfix release of 3.1 available:

http://www.allaire.com/Handlers/index.cfm?ID=21853&Method=Full

This is build 16777 of JRun 3.1, the original 3.1 was build 15506. Lots of
bugs fixed.

~ Tormod

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Tormod Hystad
Senior Developer, R&D
CatalystOne, Inc. - Execution excellence!
~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at 
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
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RE: Java books

[Charles Arehart]

I'll throw in Beginning Java Objects by Jacquie Barker, a new book on the
scene, focused on teaching objects (using java) to newcomers, and getting
good reviews at Amazon.

And though they have a strong client-side bent (more than 30% of chapters
devoted to client development), 2 more popular books are Core Java 2
(Prentice Hall) and Beginning Java 2 (Wrox).

As for JSP/servlet books, well, to extend Scott's praise of the Java docs,
they also have lots of books in the Prentice Hall PTR Sun Series on
jsp/servlets and j2ee in general. Let's also not fail to give praise to the
JRun docs themselves, which are quite nice as vendor documentation goes.
Other popular books are Core Servlets and JSP (Prentice Hall), JavaServer
Pages (Orielly), Professional Java Server Programming J2EE Edition, and
others. JavaServer Pages Application Development (Forta et al) also receives
praise, though I've not yet read it.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Scott Stirling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 10:14 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Java books


For reference, there is absolutely nothing more comprehensive, easy to use,
or cheaper than the JDK docs from Sun.  They cover the tools, the APIs, and
the features of the language.  A great complement is a copy of the JDK
source code, or unzip the API source code that ships in src.zip with the
JDK.

For learning, I agree with Mark in that a certification guide is a great way
to learn.  I just took the programmer certification (yes, I passed) last
week, as a matter of fact.  The book I used to study is: "The Complete Java
2 Certification Study Guide: Programmer's and Developers Exams," by Simon
Roberts et al.  Excellent complements to a study guide are the JVM spec. and
Java Language spec.

Other general Java learning/references I have found helpful in the past:

The Java Programming Language, 3rd edition, by Gosling et al.
Thinking in Java, Bruce Eckels
The Java Class Libraries, second ed., vol. 1 and supplement

Scott Stirling
JRun QA
Macromedia

> -Original Message-
> From: McDowell, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 8:56 PM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: Java books
>
>
> For reference, "Java In A Nutshell" O'Reilly, ISBN 1-56592-487-8
> For learning, "A Programmer's Guide to Java Certification",
> Addison-Wesley,
> ISBN 0-201-59614-8
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Shawn Regan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:07 PM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Java books
>
>
> can anyone recommend a good java book. Maybe one to use for
> Reference and
> one to start learning with.
>
> Shawn Regan
> Applications Developer
> Pacific Technology Solutions
~~
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RE: JMC causing problems...

[Charles Arehart]

Lloyd, here's something else you may find handy while you work to resolve
the problem of the JMC running very slowly.

There are a set of 10 command line utilities for JRun 3.x (provided by
Macromedia) that can be used as an alternative to going into the JMC to do
many configuration tasks, including:

You can read more about them at:

http://www.allaire.com/handlers/index.cfm?id=21645

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Lloyd H. Meinholz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:00 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: JMC causing problems...


My problems with the slowness of the JMC is really becoming a major
problem. I have 10 servers each with about 6 webapps. I also have the
admin server running bringing the total servers to 11. I have the
default server commented out in the jvms.properties file (would this
cause any problems)? After inital login to the server, it takes between
55 and 65 seconds to finish to render the left panel. If I need to
create a new server or webapp, I have this wait again. It has gotten to
the point that after refreshing this screen 2-3 times, my browser
(Netscape 4.75) dies on my Ultra-5 with 512 MB of memory and nothing
else running. I have tried different machines, different OS's and
different browsers and have pretty much the same performance, with the
exception that IE on Windows just dies. I would prefer to edit all the
configuration files by hand than to use the JMC at this point, but I
have had "bad" things happen after editing files by hand. My browser is
on the same LAN as the JRun server, so it isn't a bandwidth issue. What
are the plans for the JMC in the future? Is this problem going to be
addressed? Can anyone think of anything to alleviate this problem? The
only thing I can come up with is to have more than one JRun installation
and thus group my servers under different admin servers. Are there any
issues (licensing or technical) to running multiple JRun
installations/admin servers? I have JRun 3.1 professional for two CPU's
and a server that appears to have plenty of resources (CPU/memory/disk)
while the problem is happening. Thanks for any tips or pointers,

Lloyd
~~
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RE: beans vs ejb's (was "RE: Ist it possible to seperate EJB and Servlet Server?")

[Charles Arehart]

Thanks, Mark, for that elaboration.

I'd just like to clarify something for folks still new to this. You wrote in
point 1: "If the client is on a different machine than the back-end logic
then EJBs are the obvious choice because ..."

We should clarify (or correct me if I misunderstand you) that you mean if
the client "calling the EJB" is on a different machine that the EJB
container. This must be clarified because in a typical JSP/servlet
environment, the statement is true that "the client is on a different
machine than the back-end logic", but that shouldn't lead to the conclusion
that EJBs are the obvious choice.

Same goes for the statement in point 3 "EJBs are better if you may need to
use non-Java clients". In both cases, you're referring to the client as "he
who's calling the EJB".

Many of us will know what you mean, but those getting started will tend to
think of the "client" as the web browser user. In the JSP/servlet scenario,
the jsp/servlet is the EJB client, calling upon the EJB for the benefit of
the web browser client.

It may sound like I'm being pedantic, but it's exactly these sort of
statements that can be misinterpreted which are the root of much
misunderstanding, I think (I'm glad you agree that the books can be
misleading).

I certainly don't mean to embarrass you by pointing this out. Just trying to
help folks who are still trying to get their arms around it all.

The rest of your points are much appreciated.

Indeed, this is another one of those topics that can be all the more easily
misinterpreted by web programmers who don't come from a java background. In
non-web programs in java, when one refers to a client it generally means the
class/program that's calling upon another library/class written by another
programmer. In this case, your class/program is a client to the other
library/class. It doesn't mean the person running the program.

Oh, it can be a tangled web (pardon the mixed metaphors). :-)

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Mark Phelps [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 1:39 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: beans vs ejb's (was "RE: Ist it possible to seperate EJB
and Servlet Server?")


I have done projects using regular beans and EJBs.  I definately believe
that there are times when both are appropriate.  Here are my thoughts on the
differences.

1.  If the client is on a different machine than the back-end logic then
EJBs are the obvious choice because they make the communication between
client and server much easier than it would be if you had to write the
communication code yourself.  Applications that need to scale to a high
degree should go this route so that the time spent rendering the user
interface and the time spent doing back-end processing can be separated onto
multiple CPUs.

2.  If your application is going to run on one machine now but may need to
be split up later, then it may still be advantageous to use EJBs so that you
are prepared.  It isn't impossible to turn regular beans into EJBs later on
but it is better to do it up front if you ever do it.

3.  The EJB container provides services such as transaction handling, thread
safety, container managed persistence, etc. that you will have to code
yourself if you don't use EJBs.  This may or may not be a big deal.
Sometimes you can be more efficient if you control these services yourself.

4.  EJBs are sometimes slower than regular java beans because of the
communication overhead, but not always.  Sometimes the container can
optimize the communication when the EJB is local.  Version 2.0 of the EJB
spec includes a concept called local interfaces which are used when an EJB
is known to be local.  A local interface bypasses the remote communication
overhead.  This if future stuff, of course.

If you know that you will never need the remote, or transaction capabilities
of EJBs then I would say that performance would probably be on the side of
regular java beans.

5.  EJBs are definately more complex to code and deploy than regular Java
beans.

6.  EJBs are better if you may need to use non-Java clients.  If the app
server supports it, EJBs can be accessed via CORBA clients which can be
written in many languages.

7.  There are some limitations that EJBs are subject to.  For example, the
spec says that they should not use the file system because it is not
transactional.  See the spec for more details.  These limitations may affect
your decsion.

I hope these tips are helpful.  I agree that many Java books are misleading
when they say that Java Beans and EJBs are totally different.  They can
often be used for the same thing.  There is no single answer about which one
is right.  Using Java Beans can be bad if you need to scale the app later
but using EJBs can be an unnecessary waste of time if you never need the app
to be bigger than a single box can handle.

One comment: I attended JavaOne recently.  There was a significant
anti-entity bean backlash at that conference.  Many people sai

RE: JRun 2.3.3 159 Mysteriously gives NullPointerException

[Charles Arehart]

Any possibility this could just be a side-effect of the code red worm? You
say you're running IIS 5 on Win2k. The worm targets IIS 5 servers. I got hit
with it last week. Motivated me to look into the patch (which was just as
easily applied with an upgrade to Win2k SP2--if one wants everything in that
SP, otherwise there's just the patch alone, available).

Even if that's not the root of Michael's problem, let this be a warning to
all others running IIS 5. The Code red worm is serious (it's not tragic for
now, all you need to do is reboot to clear out the worm in its current
form). The seriousness of this is underlined by the fact that it's mentioned
on the front page of the MS site's "servers" section
(http://www.microsoft.com/Servers/), and as well on the very front page of
the MS site's (under "new downloads", for now).

For more info, see
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/itsolutio
ns/security/topics/codealrt.asp


/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Michael Mierwinski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 12:59 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: JRun 2.3.3 159 Mysteriously gives NullPointerException


We have several servers running JRun 2.3.3 build 159 and they have been
running great for months on end w/o a problem.  In the past week and a half
I have noticed that the servers will mysteriously give this error when
trying to run any .jsp file, even one with no JSP in it (i.e. just HTML w/
a .jsp extension):

500 Internal Server Error

NullPointerException:
com.livesoftware.jsp.JSPServlet

None of the files change and the server does this randomly.  We are running
Win 2K Server, IIS 5.0, J2SE 1.3.1  and the only way I have been able to
fix this problem is completely uninstall JRun, delete properties files and
re-install.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Mike
~~
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RE: .jsp page hangs when trying to access.

[Charles Arehart]

Without looking too carefully at everything, I'd just suggest a couple of
classic debugging steps:

1) first, you say the problem occurs when going from the one page to the
other. Since the "other" is reached via an href, what happens when you just
run it (the addnews program) on its own (typing the URL in your browser)? Is
it also not responding? It's useful to try to isolate the nature of the
problem.

2) In either case, try removing things in the addnews template to get it to
run (like take out the includes and the taglib directives, since right now
it doesn't appear they're doing anything important to the other tags on that
page). Then add things back and refresh the page until it hangs, then you've
got your culprit.

3) Of course, since you're setting session variables in one and accessing
them in another, there could be more to what's going on that may respond
differently when indeed you've run the controls template first. But try it
several ways (run addnews on its own when there's no session variable, run
it after running controls). If you can restart the Jrun server to clear the
session variables between attempts that could be useful too.

4) Finally, when you say it "doesn't respond", beware that the problem could
simply be that the HTML being sent to the browser isn't properly formed.
I've seen plenty of blank pages on web site caused by a missing closing tag
(which might be forgiven by one browser but totally blank out the page in
another browser--and it goes both ways between what netscape and IE will
choke on). So do a "view source" on the page that's not responding, if
indeed you can, to see what's been generated. Maybe the problem is in the
header, footer, or main.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Darren Labrum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:08 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: .jsp page hangs when trying to access.


I am starting to develop a very simple application.  However, this "simple"
application is giving me some trouble.  I am just starting out with JRun and
would like to know if what is happening to me has something to do with JRun,
my code, etc.

When going from the controls.jsp page to the addnews.jsp page it hangs and
won't even access the addnews.jsp page.

Here is the code for the controls.jsp and addnews.jsp...  Very simple, just
need to know if there is a no no in there somewhere:

controls.jsp

<%@ page import="javax.naming.*" %>
<%@ page import="allaire.taglib.*" %>
<%@ page import="java.sql.*" %>
<%@ page import="javax.sql.*" %>
<%@ taglib uri="jruntags" prefix="jrun" %>


<%! String PageName =  "Administration"; %>
<%@ include file="/header.jsp"%>
<%@ include file="/main.jsp"%>

<% String checkname = request.getParameter("username");
   String checkpass = request.getParameter("password");
%>


SELECT * FROM admin
WHERE username = '<%= checkname %>'
  AND password = '<%= checkpass %>'




<% if (CheckUser.getRowCount() ==1) { %>

<%
session.setAttribute("uname", checkname);
out.println("The session username is " + checkname);
%>


 
  Add news article
 


<% } else { %>


 
  Try your login again, something is wrong with either your username or
password)
 


<% } %>

<%@ include file="/footer.jsp"%>


-

As you can see the controls.jsp page is very simple.

Here is the template that hangs and will not access


  addnews.jsp 

<%@ page import="allaire.taglib.*,java.util.Date" %>
<%@ taglib uri="jruntags" prefix="jrun" %>

<%! String PageName =  "Administration"; %>
<%@ include file="/header.jsp"%>
<%@ include file="/main.jsp"%>

<%
String checkname = (String) session.getAttribute("uname");
out.println("The session user is " + checkname);
%>

<% if (checkname != null) {%>


  

  This is the news area.


  


<% } else { %>
Placeholder something goes here.
<% } %>

<%@ include file="/footer.jsp"%>




Again, it hangs when I try to access the addnews.jsp page.  Is there
something I am doing in the code to cause this to happen?
~~
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RE: JMC causing problems...

[Charles Arehart]

Lloyd, hopefully someone from MACR will step in, but I'd just like to offer
a thought: could it be that the problem of the JMC taking a long time isn't
so much about it naturally being slow with a large number of servers and web
apps? Maybe instead there's something about one of them (or this
modification to the jvms.properties file) that is causing some particular
part of the process to wait a long time?

Maybe someone else with a large number of servers and apps (that was 60 apps
for you, right, 10 servers with 6 apps each) can confirm. Also, are the
servers remote? Just grasping at straws here to help.

Could you perhaps comment out or otherwise remove the servers and add them
back one at a time to see if the speed decreases at the same rate with each
new server? Maybe some particular one is the culprit.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Lloyd H. Meinholz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:00 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: JMC causing problems...


My problems with the slowness of the JMC is really becoming a major
problem. I have 10 servers each with about 6 webapps. I also have the
admin server running bringing the total servers to 11. I have the
default server commented out in the jvms.properties file (would this
cause any problems)? After inital login to the server, it takes between
55 and 65 seconds to finish to render the left panel. If I need to
create a new server or webapp, I have this wait again. It has gotten to
the point that after refreshing this screen 2-3 times, my browser
(Netscape 4.75) dies on my Ultra-5 with 512 MB of memory and nothing
else running. I have tried different machines, different OS's and
different browsers and have pretty much the same performance, with the
exception that IE on Windows just dies. I would prefer to edit all the
configuration files by hand than to use the JMC at this point, but I
have had "bad" things happen after editing files by hand. My browser is
on the same LAN as the JRun server, so it isn't a bandwidth issue. What
are the plans for the JMC in the future? Is this problem going to be
addressed? Can anyone think of anything to alleviate this problem? The
only thing I can come up with is to have more than one JRun installation
and thus group my servers under different admin servers. Are there any
issues (licensing or technical) to running multiple JRun
installations/admin servers? I have JRun 3.1 professional for two CPU's
and a server that appears to have plenty of resources (CPU/memory/disk)
while the problem is happening. Thanks for any tips or pointers,

Lloyd
~~
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beans vs ejb's (was "RE: Ist it possible to seperate EJB and Servlet Server?")

[Charles Arehart]

Oo, looks like the makings of a good debate. :-) OK, maybe it's been done
before, but for the benefit of the current audience (yours truly included),
can we hear the arguments again?

Scott just wrote: "One question is why are you separating the EJB and
Servlet engine on the same machine?  For testing purposes?  The
communication between Servlet and EJB will be much faster if they are in the
same JVM, so I am just wondering why separate them out?"

Yes Celeste asked Friday "why you are using an EJB design on the same
physical server?  I had always understood that the purpose of using an EJB
design is to communicate across different physical server/system boundaries
and/or platforms.  Otherwise, the overhead and performance "hit" of using an
EJB design would not be justifiable."

Ah, two sides of the same coin, and an issue about which I'm sure many often
wonder as they get started. Can we open the floor?

I've felt, too, that the discussion of EJB's seemed to make more sense when
the client talking to the EJB was on a different machine (either
client-to-server, or jsp/servlet-to-EJB container on another machine).

Like Celeste, I've wondered if those advantages were as apparent in the
latter case (JSP/servlet-to-EJB container) when those are on the same
machine (indeed, when they're in the same container--JRun-as they are for
many of us).

Indeed, it hit me one day that much of the initial excitement about EJB's
may have come from writers whose perspective was that of client developers:
those building applets that were talking to enterprise databases. Sure, for
them, the benefit of talking to an EJB instead made imminently more sense
over putting a bunch of DB code in the client.

But when all code is on the server side, is there still clear benefit?

I suppose one could make an argument that putting "all that DB code" in a
JSP/servlet is just as bad, but then others will counter that they solve
that problem with regular beans. One rarely hears this approach debated over
EJBs. Of course, it's often clarified in EJB books that "EJB's ARE NOT THE
SAME as regular JavaBeans", but again I think when they say that they're
talking to client developers for whom beans are different in concept
(indeed, many trying to learn about beans themselves are thrown off by books
that discuss beans only in the context of "gui development" tools.) They
rarely go on to say when beans on the server may make sense over ejbs.

Indeed, when one looks even more closely at EJB's, one is left wondering
what the difference would be between a bean-managed (BMP) entity bean (where
the developer is responsible for all the db/transaction coding) and a
regular javabean (where, again, the developer is responsible for all the
db/transaction coding).  Is it just a matter of roles (who's doing the
work), then?

Of course, if one is leveraging container-managed persistence (CMP) in an
entity bean, then indeed it's less work than a developer creating a javabean
of their own to do that work.

But if they eschew CMP for BMP, then is there still a benefit of a BMP
entity bean over a javabean doing equivalent work?


/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Scott Stirling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:58 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Ist it possible to seperate EJB and Servlet Server?


Vijay mentions some good things to check.  It might also help to set the
classServer host in local.properties to the real IP of the machine, rather
than 127.0.0.1.  You set this on the EJB server, not the Servlet server.
The Servlet engine server should have the EJB and JMS services disabled, and
your Servlets must have the ejipt_client.jar or ejipt.jar in their classpath
so they can load Ejipt's JNDI Context factory.  Also make sure you are not
overriding settings in local.properties by setting them again in
deploy.properties.

One question is why are you separating the EJB and Servlet engine on the
same machine?  For testing purposes?  The communication between Servlet and
EJB will be much faster if they are in the same JVM, so I am just wondering
why separate them out?

Scott Stirling
JRun QA
Macromedia

> -Original Message-
> From: Vijay Menon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 3:08 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: Re: Ist it possible to seperate EJB and Servlet Server?
>
>
> When u set up servers in JRun, each server is completely
> independent. It
> looks like the servlet is trying to locate the ejbs by
> looking on the same
> port as itself. Check which port the servlet is using to
> connect to the ejb
> server because that would be the most likely reason
>
> Also, if the site is protected by a firewall, check that the
> port is open
> for the second server but of course, in that case, a naming
> exception will
> not be thrown.
>
> Vijay
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Alexander Sommer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "JRun-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:39 PM
> Subject

"judging java" report

[Charles Arehart]

Folks, getting back to the debate about java app servers versus others,
there is an interesting 5-screen web article on the subject, titled
"Server-side Subjects Drop Java's GPA"
(http://www.devx.com/judgingjava/articles/maso/default.asp). The author
assesses the strengths and weaknesses of Java as a server-side platform.

It's within a series entitled "Judging Java", from JavaReport and Devx, at
http://www.devx.com/judgingjava/

Another interesting article there is "The Gap—Make That Canyon—Between Java
Jobs and Skilled Practitioners " at
http://www.devx.com/judgingjava/articles/skills/default.asp

Haven't read either in entirety, but thought they may appeal to those on the
list considering the matter recently.

/charlie


~~
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RE: Learning path

[Charles Arehart]

That's a great offer, Jayson, to host something like this on jspinsider (a
useful resource, indeed).

It's also a really interesting idea, if you think about it, because while
it's hard getting volunteers, we can expand the pool of candidates well
beyond just the Jrun list members, to include those using competing java app
servers (weblogic, websphere, iplanet, tomcat, etc.)  And of course, it
could extend the community of those moving to JSP/servlets to include those
coming from ASP/CF/PHP/Perl, etc, maintaining a "generic" focus on what
people in that community would need further broadening the pool of potential
candidates (and interested readers).

Of course, it's no trivial effort. I don't even know that I can get involved
right now (have other books already in the pipeline) but this is a subject
near and dear to me, and I suspect others.

If at least a couple others are interested, maybe we can create a separate
mailing list (using some free mailing list feature, if not an HOF one) and
take advantage of Jayson's generous offer and at least try to start
something. Heck, even if it's just a list of topics, resources, and
tips/techniques from the perspective of those "making the move" from other
platforms, that could be useful. Any thoughts?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Jayson Falkner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:30 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Re: Learning path


I agree with Charlie too, and Jay as well. Finding helpful
JSP/Servlet/J2EE/Java books is one thing. Especially if you expect the book
to aid in migration from a other server-side technology. Having the
community write a book would be great, however it requires a lot of
volunteer effort. It was tried by the Esperanto Group,
http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jspbook/, but never caught on with support from
others.

Speaking from experience, there are countless people willing to use the free
material, however there are very few willing to contribute. I webmaster over
at JSP Insider - http://www.jspinsider.com, and if there is really interest
in this project I'll gladly help as well as provide web space. The site
already has much code, FAQ and tutorials. Combining it all might make a book
itself :)

Jayson Falkner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> Excellent, Charlie is right on target. I have spent much money picking up
> books only to find them inadequate for what I need to do. Perhaps this is
a
> good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a
book,
> collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that
book
> that has it all).  In addition, code good examples of actual sites out
there
> (if permitted) can also enhance the learning curve.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles Arehart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "JRun-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 10:56 PM
> Subject: RE: Learning path
>
>
> > Bert, I know you're asking for materials that "aren't just tutorial but
> also
> > design and case study", but since others have asked about the general
> > transition from ASP (or CF, PHP, Perl, etc.) to servlets/JSP, here are
> some
> > thoughts that cover a little of all three. Folks really do need to learn
> > quite a lot to be truly effective: Java, as a base, for sure, and of
> course
> > J2EE (servlets, JSP's and EJB's, at least) in general.
> >
> > A big challenge, I find, is that the beginning Java books often focus on
> > teaching client-side Java for a substantial percentage of the book.
While
> > books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
> rightly
> > so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's
not
> a
> > bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who
wants
> to
> > learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of
> course
> > folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to
its
> > credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
> > development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus
on
> > either "side" of the platform.
> >
> > On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already
know
> > java but they're generally focused on teaching web app development to
> those
> > experienced java programmers. As such, not only must you know Java to
> really
> > get into the books, but you have to weed through some web app
development
> > info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness
to
> > web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
> > demonstrate such si

RE: Learning path..Should I take it?

[Charles Arehart]

Let me just clarify, lest anyone draw the wrong conclusions: what Andrew was
pointing out was that R6 of CF (still to come) is supposed to be built on a
java platform (now, it's on a C platform). All this underlying platform
stuff is transparent to CF programmers. They just write html pages with
embedded CF tags, just like ASP and JSP programmers do.

The planned change in CF's foundation won't change the way existing CF
programs run. But it will, as Andrew suggested, open new opportunities for
integration with Java. There are several already, including using CFOBJECT
to call java programs/classes, using CFX_ java custom tags with even more
tight integration--including the ability to generate data structures built
as CF queries within java that can be returned to the caller, and
CFSERVLET--allowing CF and JRun Servlets to share data with each other.

So, what does all this mean for the CF'er debating a move to
JSP/servlets/EJBs? Well, for now I wonder if it really influences the
decision much. The bottom line decision will still be, do you want to code
in CFML or do you want to code in native java (evaluating the differences
between JSP's and Servlets).

Yes, with R6 of CF, one will be running on a java platform but still coding
CF. In some ways, that's a good thing. CFML is easy to use, yet powerful and
scalable (let's not open a debate on that but let folks disagree if they
will). It may prove even more powerful on a java platform. (Not so sure it
will be portable among all java app servers or will run only on JRun. That's
still being debated, I understand.)

Anyway, there is clearly a lot more to the difference between developing web
apps in CF, ASP, JSP/Servlets than simple language differences. It's a good
question you've raised, Andrew, and I look forward to the opinions of
others.

I just wanted to head off any misinterpretation of the planned CF/java
integration, for those only now hearing about it. It's indeed another piece
in the puzzle of deciding where to head in the future.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Jackie Comeau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 12:39 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Learning path..Should I take it?


I'm not familiar with CF, but if you can write Java code using CF and it's
portable, I don't see any other reason to go to JSP. You'd be learning a
language that would do the same thingsif that is where CF is heading as
you noted.

Jackie

On Monday, July 30, 2001 11:43 AM, SURBER, ANDREW L (SBC-MSI)
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> Speaking of CF and ASP programmers learning JSP...
>
> JSP seems like a lot of overhead to accomplish the same end result
compared
> to CF or ASP. IF CF 6 is going to be implemented in Java that means my CF
> apps are going to be more portable.
>
> What kinds of things would I use JSP for that I wouldn't use CF for?
>
> -Thanks
>
>
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/jrun-talk@houseoffusion.com/
> Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
~~
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Re: Learning path

[Charles Arehart]

I agree, Gunter, and I did commend Marty Hall's book in my note. Indeed, I
also took his 5-day seminar, rarely offered publicly, which is also
definitely worth getting into if you can (see coreservlets.com for more,
including all the examples from his book). Marty's a great guy and an
excellent instructor. And you're right that the book does try to explain
things, but he and I discussed this point and he agrees that those without a
java background would be hard-pressed to really understand it all. Indeed,
the book states in the introduction, "Although I don't assume any
familiarity with server-side programming, I do expect you to be familiar
with the basics of java language development."

I guess this goes to another point I only made in passing: sure, you can
learn JSP (and maybe even write some servlets) with only a modicum of Java
knowledge (and some hand-holding), but gosh you just won't get far before
the mysteries of packages, instance versus class data, threading, classpath
settings, the lifecycle of objects, and lots of other things (choosing
between inheritance and aggregation, interfaces and inner classes, and more)
become really challenging.

I'm not knocking the value of rising to the challenge. Learning to program
in Java will expose you to many nuances and subtleties that often are missed
in procedural programming. Such ideas as programming in the "problem space"
versus the "solution space", separating "things that change from things that
stay the same", implementation hiding, and the simple matter of being forced
to do your design up front are all valuable lessons learned that can
influence even one's CF or ASP programming.

It's just that no one should assert that this stuff will be easy. I'm
reminded of a comment by Bruce Eckel in his Hands on Java Seminar, where he
quoted someone else who'd said something like "saying java is easier than
c++ is like saying k-2 is shorter then Everest (the two largest mountains in
the world). Sure, it is, but only by a tiny fraction."

For people making the trek up the Java mountain to enterprise-class web
applications, I'm just saying be careful who you talk to as you pack your
bags and gather your sherpas and fellow climbers. Many a project has "died"
before making it to the top for having been misled about the challenge of
reaching the summit.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Gunter Sammet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 10:04 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: JRun-Talk-List V1 #51


I'm picked up the book "core SERVLETS and JAVAsERVER PAGES" from Marty Hall
and find it an excellent book.

For reader without Java background, the sample code is explained. If you
know Java, reading the code is usually enough.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of JRun-Talk
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 7:51 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: JRun-Talk-List V1 #51


JRun-Talk-List Mon, 30 Jul 2001   Volume 1 : Number
51

In this issue:

Re: Learning path
Name/password cannot be different than already specified in
properties


--

Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:06:30 -0700
From: "Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Learning path
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Excellent, Charlie is right on target. I have spent much money picking up
books only to find them inadequate for what I need to do. Perhaps this is a
good opportunity for this community to take the initiative to write a book,
collaboratively, that addresses the need (we have been waiting for that book
that has it all).  In addition, code good examples of actual sites out there
(if permitted) can also enhance the learning curve.



- Original Message -
From: "Charles Arehart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "JRun-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 10:56 PM
Subject: RE: Learning path


> Bert, I know you're asking for materials that "aren't just tutorial but
also
> design and case study", but since others have asked about the general
> transition from ASP (or CF, PHP, Perl, etc.) to servlets/JSP, here are
some
> thoughts that cover a little of all three. Folks really do need to learn
> quite a lot to be truly effective: Java, as a base, for sure, and of
course
> J2EE (servlets, JSP's and EJB's, at least) in general.
>
> A big challenge, I find, is that the beginning Java books often focus on
> teaching client-side Java for a substantial percentage of the book. While
> books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and
rightly
> so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's not
a
> bad thing, but it reflects an old mentalit

RE: Learning path

[Charles Arehart]

Bert, I know you're asking for materials that "aren't just tutorial but also
design and case study", but since others have asked about the general
transition from ASP (or CF, PHP, Perl, etc.) to servlets/JSP, here are some
thoughts that cover a little of all three. Folks really do need to learn
quite a lot to be truly effective: Java, as a base, for sure, and of course
J2EE (servlets, JSP's and EJB's, at least) in general.

A big challenge, I find, is that the beginning Java books often focus on
teaching client-side Java for a substantial percentage of the book. While
books like Core Java 2 and Beginning Java 2 are highly commended and rightly
so, they have upwards of 40% or more on applets, swing, awt, etc. It's not a
bad thing, but it reflects an old mentality that "surely anyone who wants to
learn java wants to build applets and client applications", which of course
folks making the server-side transition may not. Thinking in Java, to its
credit, devotes only a single chapter each to client- and server-side
development, being especially solid at the core of java without a focus on
either "side" of the platform.

On the other hand, most J2EE-level books not only presume you already know
java but they're generally focused on teaching web app development to those
experienced java programmers. As such, not only must you know Java to really
get into the books, but you have to weed through some web app development
info you may already know--or bear with the author's potential newness to
web app development (I find a lot of J2EE books fail to suggest or
demonstrate such simple things as JavaScript, for instance. OK, so one can
learn it elsewhere, but someone needs to lead those using J2EE as their
first web app platform to appreciate why it's worth doing).

Then there's the whole debate over EJBs (should you, shouldn't you),
understanding the difference between javabeans and EJBs, weeding through
books that discuss javabeans for their use in client-side development only,
etc.

Among the more popular resources for server-side development are Core
Servlets and JSP, Professional Java Server Programming J2EE Ed., O'Reilly's
Enterprise JavaBeans, and others. Of course, Sun has its J2EE tutorial
(http://java.sun.com/j2ee/tutorial/index.html), the J2EE Blueprints, and
many other resources.

At least, in the case of a real walkthrough, the Java Pet Store example from
Sun is a reasonably complete application and the BluePrints book (online and
in print as "Java 2 Platform, Enterprise Edition BluePrints") walks one
through it and the solutions employed in it. See
http://java.sun.com/j2ee/blueprints/ for these and lots more.

On another tack, if those making the move to servlets/JSP are also new to
object-oriented programming and design (haven't had C++, SmallTalk, or
similar experience), that's another whole level of complexity to be
understood (and effectively used). For this, I'd strongly recommend Jacquie
Barker's "Beginning Java Objects" (Wrox). While some may argue against it as
a first java book, I think for the right audience it's great for just that.
And this audience may be especially well-suited to its approach. I found no
other book did as good a job at putting OO (programming AND design AND
implementation--and even UML and more) all into perspective.

Then, there's the whole matter of patterns. You won't get far before
discussions of "observers", "proxies", "factories", "facades" and lots more
start cropping up. Of course, the seminal work is "Design Patterns" from
Gamma, et al (with its distinct C++ focus, though still foundational for all
OO programmers), and one of its co-authors wrote "Pattern Hatching". There
are still other books that lead one through use of design patterns in Java.
Then there are still more "architecture patterns", including J2EE patterns
covered in a book ("Core J2EE Patterns") and a sun site
(http://java.sun.com/j2ee/blueprints/design_patterns/index.html).

There's clearly a need in the market for something to address the audience
of folks making the transition from other server-side scripting languages to
JSP/Servlets, etc, especially if they're also new to Java. For now, you have
to pick and choose.

On the training front, Macromedia's recognized this need with their split of
the former "servlets, jsp and java" class into a new "java for web
developers" class focused on just the kind of core java needed to get
started, then offering "fasttrack to jsp" to cover JSP basics, and a coming
"Building j2ee applications with JRun" class (still in the works) to get
more into JDBC, servlets, javabeans, EJBs, and more.

Then there are sites like jspinsider.com, jguru.com, theserverside.com, and
others, as well as magazines like Java Developers Journal, Java Pro, and
Java Report.

I'm sure others will have still more suggested resources, and I'd certainly
welcome their feedback if any on those mentioned here.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Bert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: T

RE: rumor

[Charles Arehart]

Here are some responses made on some other lists from folks inside
macromedia:

"Macromedia has absolutely NOT stopped development on JRun. JRun is not
going away.  Beware of rumors :)"
- Terry Ford, ColdFusion Product Management

"Well, the next version of CF is based on JRun; Macromedia Generator is
based on JRun; so killing JRun would cascade delete CF and Generator.  I
find it hard to believe that Macromedia bought Allaire just for the Studio
products."
- Daryl Banttari, Macromedia Consulting

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Jackie Comeau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 6:15 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: rumor


Heard a rumor Macromedia is laying off Allaire people, stopped the Spectrum
development, and plan to stop JRun development.

Hope it's just a rumor!

Can anyone here verify if it is or not?

Jackie Comeau

Programmer Analyst
Framingham State College
Ext. 4023

"Hold on with a bulldog grip, and chew and choke as much as
possible." --Abraham Lincoln
~~
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RE: Shameless newbie question re encrypt/decrypt

[Charles Arehart]

Susan, wanted to add one more thing. While I said that the process of
encryption/decryption takes place between the browser and web server, I
didn't offer any details on setting up the web server to work this way.
Again, there's no simple answer, and each web server will be different. But
it involves installing a "server certificate" on the web server. See your
web server docs (or web server administrator) for more details.

One other thing is that of course some J2EE app servers implement and
install their own web servers (they may refer to them as http servers), and
so you may find help on dealing with all this in the docs for that app
server rather than any particular web server.

Case in point: the Sun J2EE Reference Implementation that gets installed
when you install the J2EE JDK has such documentation:

http://java.sun.com/j2ee/tutorial/doc/Security2.html#62810

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Charles Arehart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:45 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: Shameless newbie question re encrypt/decrypt


Susan, did you ever get an answer to this? There are many levels on which
one could provide an answer, but perhaps the simplest is that if your web
pages (html, jsp, cf, asp, whatever) are on a web server that has a server
certificate installed, then when a browser requests a page from that server
using HTTPS (rather than HTTP), the communications between the browser and
server will be encrypted, automatically.

Your code doesn't have to "ask for the key" or "do the encryption", it's all
done for you by the browser and server. And note that this is the web server
taking care of the details, not your application server (assuming they're
separate things). So any Jrun, ColdFusion, ASP, or other dynamic pages don't
need to do anything to handle the encryption/decryption. It's done for you
by the web server before it passes the page request to the application
server (JRUN, CF, ASP).

Note that it's possible that you may be limited to serving such "secured"
pages from a particular directory, depending on how the certificate and
support for SSL were installed.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Susan M. Orndorff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:06 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Shameless newbie question re encrypt/decrypt


I am trying to teach myself about security re encryption, digital
signatures, and certificates, etc.  I understand the explanations of how
these work when the books say e.g."you ask for the recipients public key,
and use that to encrypt" etc. etc.
Here is my question, how do you actually implement "asking for a public key"
and "using it to encrypt" ? Does one buy a software package that does all
this for you??
I am stuck on how the actual implementations of these procedures are carried
out.
TIA..
--susan
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RE: how to upgrade to JRUN 3.1

[Charles Arehart]

You say the site "only mentions a download of an evaluation version". Of
course there are often many places that offer downloads, so try this one
instead.

If you go to the allaire site, then products/jrun, there's a link to
"download jrun" on the right of the page (or just click the "download"
button at the top of all allaire site pages). From there, you can choose
"Jrun Update" (which for me is
http://allaire11.allaire.com/download/showfamily.cfm?DownloadType=Update&Fam
ilyID=1953B5EC-7AC0-11D4-849E0010B547F60A but may not work for all or at all
times, so follow the steps above instead).

>From that page, note that there are 3 categories: Enterprise, Advanced, and
Professional, and at the top of each is a link with an "Update for Windows"
or "Update for Unix/Linux". Choose the combination you require. The download
starts up right away with no prompt for serial number to do the download. Of
course, it will only install if a previous version is installed and a serial
number is provided during the install.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 5:01 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: how to upgrade to JRUN 3.1




We have purchased JRUN 3.0 a few weeks ago. What shd we do now to upgrade
to JRUN 3.1 ?
Who shd we contact ?
Allaire web site only mentions a download of an evaluation version.

rgds Christophe Gadet
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RE: Shameless newbie question re encrypt/decrypt

[Charles Arehart]

Susan, did you ever get an answer to this? There are many levels on which
one could provide an answer, but perhaps the simplest is that if your web
pages (html, jsp, cf, asp, whatever) are on a web server that has a server
certificate installed, then when a browser requests a page from that server
using HTTPS (rather than HTTP), the communications between the browser and
server will be encrypted, automatically.

Your code doesn't have to "ask for the key" or "do the encryption", it's all
done for you by the browser and server. And note that this is the web server
taking care of the details, not your application server (assuming they're
separate things). So any Jrun, ColdFusion, ASP, or other dynamic pages don't
need to do anything to handle the encryption/decryption. It's done for you
by the web server before it passes the page request to the application
server (JRUN, CF, ASP).

Note that it's possible that you may be limited to serving such "secured"
pages from a particular directory, depending on how the certificate and
support for SSL were installed.

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: Susan M. Orndorff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:06 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Shameless newbie question re encrypt/decrypt


I am trying to teach myself about security re encryption, digital
signatures, and certificates, etc.  I understand the explanations of how
these work when the books say e.g."you ask for the recipients public key,
and use that to encrypt" etc. etc.
Here is my question, how do you actually implement "asking for a public key"
and "using it to encrypt" ? Does one buy a software package that does all
this for you??
I am stuck on how the actual implementations of these procedures are carried
out.
TIA..
--susan
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/jrun-talk@houseoffusion.com/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=sts


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RE: JRun's included JDBC drivers

[Charles Arehart]

Any chance that when run as a service it's running with a different
permission (or account) compared to that used when run as an application?

/charlie

-Original Message-
From: tdavis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 9:08 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: Re: JRun's included JDBC drivers


Some more information, for those interested.

If you use JRun in application mode, you can directly access the JRun
provided JDBC drivers, as long as your servlets and JSP's are accessed
through JRun's engine.

However, if you use JRun in service mode, any attempt to directly register
and use those provided JDBC drivers in your servlets or JSP's will invoke a
"driver locked for use with embedded applications" error.

Error makes sense now.  But why do I have to use JRun only in application
mode to use your drivers (other than through datasource name in JDBC
settings)?  My servlets/JSP's are being run through the JRun engine, so I'm
not using them elsewhere.

If anyone at Allaire is listening, I'm hoping this is a bug and not an
accidental feature.

Toby

>-Original Message-
>From: tdavis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 1:17 PM
>To: JRun-Talk
>Subject: JRun's included JDBC drivers
>
>
>Can you use JRun 3.1's included JDBC drivers directly in servlets/JSP's,
>without registering through the JDBC Settings?
>
>I have servlets (and my own connection pooling) that I am going to run
>through JRun that register the drivers themselves.  I get inconsistent
>results, where sometimes they work, sometimes they don't (with "cannot use
>with embedded applications" errors)... without even changing my code.
>
>Even the most simple ones...
>Class.forName("allaire.jrun.jdbc.JRunDriver");
>etc
>etc
>
>I guess I'm very unclear what the SPECIFIC limitations are with the
provided
>drivers.  My understanding was that I could use the JDBC drivers as long as
>I ran my servlets/JSP's through JRun. I have no need right now to use JDBC
>Settings' pooling and what not.
>
>Can I treat the included drivers much like separate drivers, as long as
>they're registered in servlets/JSP's running through JRun?
>
>(Purchasing a separate JDBC driver is not an option right now)
>
>Toby
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/jrun-talk@houseoffusion.com/
>Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
>
>
>
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