KR> Several Questions:

[Dan Heath]

There are ways to go thru the ribs and not cut any of the wing.



See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
the pics 



2015 KR Gathering - McMinnville, OR.  September 3 - 6 -- See U There.



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC





-Original Message-



I am going to be cutting a thin line in the wing so I can lay electrical
cable to the position lights and strobes at the tips of the wings. The
person I bought the aircraft from didn't run any electrical through the
wings, so I'm thinking of using a dermal to cut a narrow deep line so I can
lay the cord without having to dig through the spar and what not. Then I
plan on filling in the hole with foam and re-applying fiberglass.



It was suggested that instead of placing it on the leading edge, that I
place the cut under the wing.

KR> Several Questions:

[Paul VISK]

I made my panel from 3/32 Burch plywood sandwiched by 3 layers of Corbin fiber. 
Two on the front and one on the back. With a three inch flange on the bottom 
for a stiffener/shelf behind the panel. ?I got the idea of extending the flange 
to make a shelf from some guys at the gathering.?This thing is stiff and 
?light.?

Paul ViskBelleville Il618-406-4705

 Original message From: "T. W. Norman via KRnet"  Date: 9/22/2015  10:17 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: krnet at 
list.krnet.org Cc: "T. W. Norman"  Subject: KR> Several 
Questions:.


Lastly, anyone have suggestions on how to make the panel? I'm thinking
fiberglass or aluminum. I am getting rid of the old panel in hopes I can
simplify the layout so it's more user friendly. 



Thank you very much for your help in advance.


Trevor Norman

___

KR> Several Questions:

[Mike Sylvester]

I agree with Dan, You could for example, use a long piece of conduit with hand 
notched teeth as a drill bit or even weld or J.B. Weld a real drill bit in the 
end of it.

Mike Sylvester 
kr2s builder 
Birmingham,AL.

Cell no.205-966-3854


> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 05:24:21 -0400
> Subject: Re: KR> Several Questions:
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> CC: danrh at windstream.net
> 
> There are ways to go thru the ribs and not cut any of the wing.
> 
>  
> 
> See N64KR at   http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on
> the pics 
> 
>  
> 
> 2015 KR Gathering - McMinnville, OR.  September 3 - 6 -- See U There.
> 
>  
> 
> Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 
> 
> Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 
> 
> Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 
> 
> Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 
> 
> Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN 
> 
>  
> 
> Best Interior and Panel at 2008 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to be cutting a thin line in the wing so I can lay electrical
> cable to the position lights and strobes at the tips of the wings. The
> person I bought the aircraft from didn't run any electrical through the
> wings, so I'm thinking of using a dermal to cut a narrow deep line so I can
> lay the cord without having to dig through the spar and what not. Then I
> plan on filling in the hole with foam and re-applying fiberglass.
> 
>  
> 
> It was suggested that instead of placing it on the leading edge, that I
> place the cut under the wing.
> 
>  
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Several Questions:

[danrh at windstream.net]

I have made many using 6061 T6 .065  I have them water jet cut and they come 
out perfect every time.  I may even have one laying around somewhere that you 
can use.

 Original message From: "T. W. Norman via KRnet" 

Lastly, anyone have suggestions on how to make the panel? I'm thinking 
fiberglass or aluminum. I am getting rid of the old panel in hopes I can 
simplify the layout so it's more user friendly. 

KR> Several Questions: Running wire in finished wing.

[Mark Jones]

-Original Message- 
From: T. W. Norman
>I am going to be cutting a thin line in the wing so I can lay electrical
>cable to the position lights and strobes at the tips of the wings.

Treavor,
There is no need to cut the wing to lay the wire. Go and get a piece of 1/2" 
EMT conduit that is 10 feet long. On one end use your dremel tools to cut 
some teeth into the conduit. Essentially you are making a 10 foot long hole 
saw. Since you are cutting through foam, you can then, by hand, drill the 
hole lengthwise through the wing in the location you wish for your wires to 
run. Once you have the homemade 10 foot hole saw through the wing take a 
fish tape and push it through the EMT conduit to push out any foam which is 
now inside the conduit. Once that is done use the fishtape to pull your 
wires back through the conduit. You could leave the conduit in the wing as 
it is minimal weight or you can remove the conduit by securing the wires on 
one end and slowly pulling the conduit out of the wing slowly turning it as 
you do so.
Hope this helps.


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI

E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com 

KR> Carb Recommendation

[Eduardo Barros]

This is my experience when my subaru is cold : 
http://www.kr2-egb.com.ar/motor_inyectores%20de%20combustible.htm
Saludos

Eduardo Barros
San Pedro, Bs. As., Argentina

Mail: eduardo at kr2-egb.com.ar 
Visite el proyecto de construcci?n del avi?n experimental "Kr2 EGB": 
www.kr2-egb.com.ar

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mark Langford via KRnet 
  To: KRnet 
  Cc: Mark Langford 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 11:27 PM
  Subject: Re: KR> Carb Recommendation


  Sid Wood wrote:

  > Looks like I will have to get a different carb that has a practical
  > mixture control. That new carb will probably not have a choke; so,
  > would need a primer system. Along with that would come the hot start
  > drama.

  I have an Ellison EFS-3A on my Corvair, with a primer in each log (all 6 
  cylinders).  I only need it when the engine is cold, and even on hot 
  summer days, I give it a little one-second squirt to get things started 
  if it's the first start of the day (that's what happens when the carb is 
  down low, and the engine's up high).  It starts shockingly fast when 
  cold, and if parked hot, it starts instantly without any kind of primer 
  activity.  No drama there.  If anything, the LyCon guys stare with envy 
  at how quick it starts.

  When it's "cold" and I use the primer, I goose it for a second, wait two 
  or three seconds for it to move closer to the cylinders, and then it 
  fires almost instantly.  I get a big kick out of hearing the Cessna guys 
  grinding away for several minutes, battery getting weaker, and I hop in 
  and fire it up and fly away while they're still screwing around trying 
  to get their bird started.  The VW with the EFS-2 is exactly the same 
  way.  I highly recommend the Ellison.  As Steve Makish (who's tried just 
  about every carb known to man on his VW/Subaru/Corvair powered KR2), 
  "put an Ellison on it and you're done".  I took his advice...

  Mark Langford
  ML at N56ML.com
  http://www.n56ml.com


  ___
  Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
  To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
  please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
  see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options


  -
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version: 22/09/2015

KR> Several Questions:

[Robert7721]

Trevor,


I've see several posts back to you on using conduit inside. That is probably 
the best solution. If you do try and do it on an exterior surface, use the 
bottom - no one will ever see the repair job.  Same for the wing walk - leave 
the top alone and add just a couple of more layers on top for the step - 
reinforce from the bottom and repair the fiberglass from that side as well. 


Not sure about your question on heating, but the Tony Bingelis books have a ton 
of hints on how to build your own shroud heater - his design is what I used. I 
highly recommend his books. He also has info on Panels, lighting, wiring, etc.


http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/bv/books_bingelis.html


My strobe on top does not have any reinforcement added. 


Happy building!


Rob Schmitt
N1852Z
www.robert7721.com



Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2015 10:18 pm
Subject: KR> Several Questions:




So, I'm finally getting started on my airplane I bought while I
was
deployed. I conned a friend to help me by giving him the completed frame
of
my Super Koala (his father is one of those who wanted a low and
slow
aircraft). Tomorrow we are going to break ground on some of the projects
I
have before I start putting everything together.



I am going to be
cutting a thin line in the wing so I can lay electrical
cable to the position
lights and strobes at the tips of the wings. The
person I bought the aircraft
from didn't run any electrical through the
wings, so I'm thinking of using a
dermal to cut a narrow deep line so I can
lay the cord without having to dig
through the spar and what not. Then I
plan on filling in the hole with foam and
re-applying fiberglass.

It was suggested that instead of placing it on the
leading edge, that I
place the cut under the wing.

So, my question is which
is a better idea, the leading edge, where it will
then be
re-sealed/fiber-glassed or under the wing?

While on the subject of the wings,
anyone have experience with STOLSPEED
Vortex Generators for the wings that
they'd be willing to share their
performance experiences?



Also, I'm
adding a smaller LED beacon to the top of the airframe, and where
it's going to
sit is just a thin piece of fiberglass (about 2-3 feet behind
where the
turtle-deck would be. Generally speaking, should I reinforce that
area before I
install it, or leave it alone?



Third question, anyone have experience
with designing electrical systems,
and installing cabin heaters using a shroud
around the exhaust pipes?



Next, on the wing stubs, I will essentially
need to cut out the top
fiberglass on both sides in order to re-enforce the
areas where I'll be
walking on the wings so I can get in and out. What is the
best way of doing
this? Adding wood or extra layers of fiberglass?


Lastly,
anyone have suggestions on how to make the panel? I'm thinking
fiberglass or
aluminum. I am getting rid of the old panel in hopes I can
simplify the layout
so it's more user friendly. 



Thank you very much for your help in
advance.


Trevor
Norman

___
Search the KRnet
Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from
KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info
at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see
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KR> Several Questions: Running wire in finished wing.

[Paul VISK]

What is an excellent idea. Make sure you don't go though your wing tank if you 
have one.


Paul ViskBelleville Il618-406-4705

 Original message From: Mark Jones via KRnet  Date: 9/23/2015  7:17 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet  Cc: Mark Jones  Subject: Re: KR> 
Several Questions: Running wire in finished wing. 
-Original Message- 
From: T. W. Norman
>I am going to be cutting a thin line in the wing so I can lay electrical
>cable to the position lights and strobes at the tips of the wings.

Treavor,
There is no need to cut the wing to lay the wire. Go and get a piece of 1/2" 


__

KR> Several Questions:

[Paul VISK]

On you stub wing. I would just add a couple of layers of carbon fiber. Buy 
enough to make your panel also.http://www.uscomposites.com/carbonpage.html

Paul ViskBelleville Il618-406-4705

 Original message From: Robert7721 via KRnet  Date: 9/23/2015  7:41 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: krnet at 
list.krnet.org Cc: Robert7721 , Twnorman at msn.com 
Subject: Re: KR> Several Questions: 

Trevor,


I've see several posts back to you on using conduit inside. That is probably 
the best solution. If you do try and do it on an exterior surface, use the 
bottom - no one will ever see the repair job.? Same for the wing walk - leave 
the top alone and add just a couple of more layers on top for the step - 
reinforce from the bottom and repair the fiberglass from that side as well. 


Not sure about your question on heating, but the Tony Bingelis books have a ton 
of hints on how to build your own shroud heater - his design is what I used. I 
highly recommend his books. He also has info on Panels, lighting, wiring, etc.


http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/bv/books_bingelis.html


My strobe on top does not have any reinforcement added. 


Happy building!


Rob Schmitt
N1852Z
www.robert7721.com



Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2015 10:18 pm
Subject: KR> Several Questions:




So, I'm finally getting started on my airplane I bought while I
was
deployed. I conned a friend to help me by giving him the completed frame
of
my Super Koala (his father is one of those who wanted a low and
slow
aircraft). Tomorrow we are going to break ground on some of the projects
I
have before I start putting everything together.



I am going to be
cutting a thin line in the wing so I can lay electrical
cable to the position
lights and strobes at the tips of the wings. The
person I bought the aircraft
from didn't run any electrical through the
wings, so I'm thinking of using a
dermal to cut a narrow deep line so I can
lay the cord without having to dig
through the spar and what not. Then I
plan on filling in the hole with foam and
re-applying fiberglass.

It was suggested that instead of placing it on the
leading edge, that I
place the cut under the wing.

So, my question is which
is a better idea, the leading edge, where it will
then be
re-sealed/fiber-glassed or under the wing?

While on the subject of the wings,
anyone have experience with STOLSPEED
Vortex Generators for the wings that
they'd be willing to share their
performance experiences?



Also, I'm
adding a smaller LED beacon to the top of the airframe, and where
it's going to
sit is just a thin piece of fiberglass (about 2-3 feet behind
where the
turtle-deck would be. Generally speaking, should I reinforce that
area before I
install it, or leave it alone?



Third question, anyone have experience
with designing electrical systems,
and installing cabin heaters using a shroud
around the exhaust pipes?



Next, on the wing stubs, I will essentially
need to cut out the top
fiberglass on both sides in order to re-enforce the
areas where I'll be
walking on the wings so I can get in and out. What is the
best way of doing
this? Adding wood or extra layers of fiberglass?


Lastly,
anyone have suggestions on how to make the panel? I'm thinking
fiberglass or
aluminum. I am getting rid of the old panel in hopes I can
simplify the layout
so it's more user friendly. 



Thank you very much for your help in
advance.


Trevor
Norman

___
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Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from
KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info
at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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___
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options

KR> Thrust line

[Mike Arnold]

How do you locate the thrust line on the fire wall. Makeing my own motor
mount.

KR> Several Questions: Running wire in finished wing.

[Chris Prata]

Agree, clever!

> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:02:04 -0500
> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Subject: Re: KR> Several Questions: Running wire in finished wing.
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> CC: ppaulvsk at aol.com
> 
> What is an excellent idea. Make sure you don't go though your wing tank if 
> you have one.
> 

KR> Thrust line

[Mike Arnold]

So, no one wants to wade in on the thrust line on the fire wall for a KR2
huh. No Aeronautical engineers out there.

KR> Thrust line

[Dan Prichard]

I'm not an engineer but I've been in the presence of a few. I was told the 
thrust line is typically in plane with the top longeron.  I set mine at 2.5"s 
below to accommodate the Corvair and the starter. Check out the KRnet Archives. 
Type "thrust line " in the email body section and watch the well of knowledge 
spring out. 

Dan Prichard
Portland Oregon 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 23, 2015, at 2:58 PM, Mike Arnold via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> So, no one wants to wade in on the thrust line on the fire wall for a KR2
> huh. No Aeronautical engineers out there.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Thrust line

[James Babcock]

If I recall correctly (from about 1989) I tried to get the engine thrust line 
at center of crankshaft to line up with the top longeron. I did not offset the 
engine laterally to compensate for p factor like I have read that some planes 
do. Too much math for me. 
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> On Sep 23, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Mike Arnold via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> So, no one wants to wade in on the thrust line on the fire wall for a KR2
> huh. No Aeronautical engineers out there.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Thrust line

[Craig Williams]

If you go to my webpage you can see pictures of the fixture I just built for my
O-235.  They are listed under the 3/11/15 update.

Craig
http://www.kr2seafury.com/

> On September 23, 2015 at 5:58 PM Mike Arnold via KRnet  list.krnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> So, no one wants to wade in on the thrust line on the fire wall for a KR2
> huh. No Aeronautical engineers out there.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options

KR> Several Questions:

[Mark Langford]

T. W. Norman wrote:
 >
 >
 > Tomorrow we are going to break ground on some of the projects I
 > have before I start putting everything together.

My thrust line is 2.5" below the tops of the longerons, and the plane 
behaves normally with changes in throttle setting.
See http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/mount_fit.html for more on that and 
engine mount construction.

Also, my carb heat / heater solution is shown at
http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/airbox/.

There's a lot of good information in the archives at
http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.  If you'll visit there, and 
enter the word "thrust" in the "subject" field, you'll get a hundred 
messages previously sent to the list, most on the subject of thrust 
lines and locations.  Entering other key words will yield equally good 
results.  I'm not discouraging questions to the list, but you can get a 
LOT more replies and viewpoints in a matter of seconds, instead of 
waiting a few days to get one or two...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Thrust line

[Flesner]

At 04:58 PM 9/23/2015, you wrote:
>So, no one wants to wade in on the thrust line on the fire wall for a KR2
>huh. No Aeronautical engineers out there.
++

I'm sure there are.  I'm not an engineer but my opinion is very 
affordable. The plans place the thrust line basically in line with 
the top longeron as others have stated.  Do you plan on making major 
changes from the plan or why do you ask?  Moving the thrust line 
considerably above or below that line could / will cause greater 
pitch changes with power changes when compared to a top longeron 
thrust line.  Few aircraft designs place the thrust line low because 
of prop ground clearance but many have a very high thrust line like 
the Kolb, challenger, and others.  These designs are quite flyable 
but the pilot must be aware and respond to major pitch changes with 
power changes.  An inch or two above or below the top longeron in a 
KR  would probably have little noticeable effect with power changes 
but, like I said, I'm not an engineer.  And like I said, my opinion 
is affordable.  It cost you nothing at all. :-)

Larry Flesner 

KR> Thrust line

[Mike Arnold]

Thanks Larry and those that responded. The  plane is already built but no
engine or mount. It was originally built with a 0-200. I am putting a VW
1835 on it. Insert sad emote here. I am going to build an adjustable jig.
You thought I was going to say "engine mount" didn't you. Ha ha ha,  . .
Hu
On Sep 23, 2015 6:29 PM, "Flesner via KRnet"  wrote:

> At 04:58 PM 9/23/2015, you wrote:
>
>> So, no one wants to wade in on the thrust line on the fire wall for a KR2
>> huh. No Aeronautical engineers out there.
>>
> ++
>
> I'm sure there are.  I'm not an engineer but my opinion is very
> affordable. The plans place the thrust line basically in line with the top
> longeron as others have stated.  Do you plan on making major changes from
> the plan or why do you ask?  Moving the thrust line considerably above or
> below that line could / will cause greater pitch changes with power changes
> when compared to a top longeron thrust line.  Few aircraft designs place
> the thrust line low because of prop ground clearance but many have a very
> high thrust line like the Kolb, challenger, and others.  These designs are
> quite flyable but the pilot must be aware and respond to major pitch
> changes with power changes.  An inch or two above or below the top longeron
> in a KR  would probably have little noticeable effect with power changes
> but, like I said, I'm not an engineer.  And like I said, my opinion is
> affordable.  It cost you nothing at all. :-)
>
> Larry Flesner
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
> options
>

KR> Several Questions:

[Flesner]

>
>
>
>anyone have experience with installing cabin heaters using a shroud 
>around the exhaust pipes?
>
>Trevor Norman
>
>_+++


My carb heat is nearly identical to Mark's and is pretty much an 
industry standard.  Some designs close the shroud and run ram air to 
the shroud which is dumped when not used for carb  heat.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8087.jpg

My cabin heat is similar but I do not recommend my exact setup.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8090.jpg

It should have a sealed shroud and have fresh ram air to the 
shroud.  My setup introduces the possibility of carbon monoxide 
entering the cabin if an exhaust leak should occur.  I'm comfortable 
with the setup for now for two reasons.  I use cabin heat very, very 
little and then only for short durations at very cold 
temperatures.  Second, my exhaust is all new stainless steel with new 
gaskets and I have a carbon monoxide detector patch on the 
panel.  But, like I said, I don't recommend this as the right way to 
do it. I use a small fan on the back side of the firewall to blow in 
hot air when I open the cabin heat door on the firewall.  I may break 
down this winter and close the shroud and add fresh ram air.  I flew 
for 6 or 7 years in temps down to 15 to 20 degrees F with no cabin 
heat at all.  KR fliers are a tough crowd but do it right to 
eliminate all possible concerns.

Larry Flesner