KR> Joining the sides

[Stephen Teate]

Hello Nick,
This is what I did and as I recall worked pretty well. Once I skinned
both fuselage sides I laid them on top of each other and put a heavy
weight on the firewall end. Then I put a 1x4 about two feet toward the
tail end under this stack. This caused the tail end to be off the table.
I then weighted this end until it touched the table and let it sit like
that for a week. Then did it again with a 2x4 and let it sit another
week. This gave me a little "prebend". My fuselage is 44" wide at the
widest point and I made it a little deeper as I am 6'-5" tall. It is a
little time consuming but I think it helped instead of trying to pull it
all together at once and possibly breaking something. 

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Where is everyone.

[Stephen Teate]

"What say yee? Anyone else willing
to start talking about what they have accomplished on there project?"

Good point Fred. As a matter of fact my redrive came night before last
and I have it spread out on my engine table. I just sit there looking at
it with a goofy smile on my face, at least that is what the wife says.
This weekend I will gather all engine parts to be machined and get them
to the shop, order the new parts next week and then the rebuild begins!
Airframe wise, my baby is still inverted so I can complete the wheel
pants and the rest of the stuff on the bottom while gravity is my
helper.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Glue question

[Stephen Teate]

"How would you remove 
the clamp from the longeron without damaging either (but if one needs to
be 
damaged, preferrably the clamp."

I am going to make the assumption we are talking about a little excess
that ran down and around the head of the clamp. I did this several times
myself. Epoxy's weakness is its peel strength. If you loosen the clamp
and then "wiggle" the handle back and forth it should pop off. If you
have done a really good job of it you may have to get out the dremmel
tool with the cut-off wheel.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Subaru EA-82 engine parts for KR

[Stephen Teate]

Thanks for the info Dan. I just called him and have taken this off his
hands.
Stephen

KR> Diehl Wings

[Stephen Teate]

Netters,

I just spent my lunch hour with Les Palmer and relieved him of an old
engine he didn't need. He showed me a set of outer Diehl wings that came
off a flying KR and told me he has a set of the stock retractable gear
that he would like to sell. He said the wings have tanks already built
into them but I didn't get any more details than that. If you are
interested you can call him at 972-241-4387. 



Stephen Teate

Paradise, Texas

KR> Front deck modification

[Stephen Teate]

An excellent idea that will pay dividends at least every annual. If your
fuel tank is an integral part of the front deck your attachment to the
fuselage will need to be fairly significant. If it is separate like
mine, the piano hinges should suffice. My front deck is removable from
the top longerons upward. The outer skin comes down and overlaps the
side of the top longerons and I have four screws in each side to hold it
in place. If you are interested let me know and I will send some pics.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

RE: Réf. : Re: KR> End of the game

[Stephen Teate]

"together with the spare furniture."

Furniture..you've got seats in the KR!

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Re: retracts

[Stephen Teate]

"I don't see how Diehl's gear, or any gear, hanging in the wind can make
a
plane faster than one with nothing hanging down at all."

The "stock" RR retractable landing gear does not retract flush with the
bottom of the wing. It rotates straight back until the tire almost
touches the top surface of the wing. This leaves a substantial portion
of the tire and stubby gear leg exposed as well as a large opening for
the tire to reside in. All of this adds up to a very dragy situation. A
properly faired Diehl gear with wheel pants will actually produce a
slight increase in speed over the stock KR retracts. In addition, the
overall ruggedness of the Diehl gear has been well documented on this
site.  

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Boat

[Stephen Teate]

"am I the only one this anal in the group? "

As I approach my twelfth year of construction, it is extremely unlikely
that you are the most anal builder in the group. My wife calls my plane
the "flying sphincter"!

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> short or long wing span

[Stephen Teate]

"I flew an old clipped wing Taylor Craft once, boy was that fun"

Hello Mike,
Your question is exactly what each designer asks themselves when they
start to design a new aircraft. Wing span and horse power and how they
relate to each other will determine how an aircraft will perform more
than anything else. You probably enjoyed your clipped wing Taylor Craft
because of its increase in speed and that is why the manufacture
shortened the wing. However, the decrease in wing span to try and
optimize an airframe for greater speed will generally result in a
deterioration in slow speed handling.
To be specific with KR's a little extra wing would be a good thing as
most are being built a little heavier than stock. Of course this will
result in a slightly lower top speed. In my particular project my liquid
cooled engine will be heavier than the stock VW. I have increased the
span of my stub wing to help with this additional weight and to increase
my flap length again in an attempt to increase my slow speed handling. I
will have a slower top speed at low altitude but since my engine will be
turbocharged the extra wing and turbo should give me very good
performance at altitude. Unfortunately, I can't give real numbers on
this yet as I am just getting to the engine. My engine
rebuild/inspection starts this weekend.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Sucking air - Oil temp problem

[Stephen Teate]

"Then one of guys at the airport,
who's opinion I greatly respect, convinced me to make an "air grabber"
of
sorts, and force the air into a plenum in front of the oil cooler."

This is the best way to go. Granted it may not be the easiest. The
"feeder" duct does not have to be round. A flat but wide duct can supply
the same amount of air. If your space is very restricted you could even
use two ducts half the height as one and merge them into the plenum
prior to the cooler. These ducts could be fabricated into the inside top
of the cowling. The location of the inlet is the critical thing. From
the centerline of the spinner and lower will give the best results. You
could even partition off part of the normal cooling air inlets and plumb
this air to the cooler. If you put the inlet any higher or on top of the
cowling you could get reverse air flow at high angles of attack like
climb out when you need the cooling most.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Polyurethane Paint

[Stephen Teate]

A question for the guys that have already painted their planes with
polyurethane. Everything that I have read so far says that a forced air
respirator is absolutely required. True or not?



Stephen Teate

Paradise, Texas

KR> OLD KR2 BROCHURE SPECS From 1976

[Stephen Teate]

"A Ray Jay Turbo Charger has been installed which raised the cruise
speed to 230 mph at 18,000 feet."

A KR at 18,000 feet! I love it!

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> aviation fuel vs autogas

[Stephen Teate]

"So then I can go back and forth if need be?"

Hello David,
Besides the price, the only negative thing I have read about using 100LL
is its appetite for oxygen sensors. Of course, if you aren't using one
that won't be a problem.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> oil cooler mounting

[Stephen Teate]

"Looks to me like it would go on top, where it was meant to,
horizontally.  Might need some air ducting, and waste (heated) air
outlet.
Pros and cons?"

Hello Rich,
As others have suggested I would recommend to stay away from any top
scoop as the cowling doesn't see much airflow at this location in a
climb which is where you will need your oil cooler the most. I have also
always thought the stock location above the rear of the engine was not a
good choice either as the air that enters the cowl inlets will seek the
path of least resistance which will be through the cylinder fins rather
than a tightly packed heat exchanger. A lot of the later model Mooney's
have gone to flush mounted NACA inlets in the forward bottom section on
the cowling with scat ducting to the associated heat exchangers. Bottom
line the best setup is a dedicated inlet that forces the air to the
cooler and if possible a dedicated outlet.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Going Topless

[Stephen Teate]

"Are there any others who have done the same & how do you finish off the
join line."

Hello Robin,

My rear turtle deck extends from the aft edge of my canopy to just in
front of my vertical stabilizer. From this point aft is another
removable fairing that is held in place with five 10-32 screws. Once
this aft fairing is removed it allows access to the piano hinges that
hold the rear of my aft turtle deck to my top longeron very similar to
Mark Langford's but only about 8" long on each side. The front of my
turtle deck is held down by a bolt/post that extends horizontally from
my doubled top longeron about 1" on each side. An "L" shaped Aluminum
bracket is floxed into the bottom of my front turtle deck that engages
the post. To remove the turtle deck, I remove the back fairing, pull the
piano hinges, lift the aft deck out of the hinges and slide rearward
about 1/2" and lift it off.
My seam to the top of the fuselage is like others. I put a single piece
of duct tape to the top and outside of the fuselage, put the foam deck
on the fuselage, and glassed it in place extending the glass down on to
the fuselage duct tape. Once cured I popped the deck off and glassed the
inside. After that I trimmed it to about a 1/4" overhang. I don't intend
to do anything else to try and hide this seam as it runs horizontally
and shouldn't affect the performance.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> New kr's

[Stephen Teate]

"Hey guys would like to hear how many years you have worked on your
projects 
and the number of hours you have involved in them. What was your biggest

challenges in the building??"

Project started from scratch 5-1-93. 1400 hours spent to date but a lot
of starts and stops due to life's other necessities. Just starting the
engine work but so far my canopy mechanism has been the hardest. I would
recommend the easiest being the piano hinge on the right side and if you
can't live with that the forward hinge with the extension oleo struts
that Langford has detailed on his site would be my next choice. I have
several mods and most folks will tell you build stock if you can because
mods will greatly increase build time.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Flight Reports

[Stephen Teate]

"I guess I need to tone down or eliminate the "pilot reports","



Bull shit! Keep them coming. 





Stephen Teate

Paradise, Texas

KR> Expanded polystyrene foam

[Stephen Teate]

"Has anyone used the 1lb white foam?   Hot wire cutting requires only
light
sanding with 220grit to remove the hairs and requires no micro filler."

Allen,
I have used this foam for non structural components like fairings,
turtle decks, etc. and it works fine for that. However, I haven't used
it in any structural locations and unless someone else has and has been
flying for a while I wouldn't recommend it. The biggest problem with it
is the care that is required while handling it. It is easily dented.
Lastly, if by "filler" you mean micro-slurry, any foam that is cut needs
to be sealed prior to glassing.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas


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KR> Flight question.

[Stephen Teate]

"Hey Mark, since it is so quiet today, do you know of anyone
successfully using either a Subaru or Geo engine in a KR?"

Hello Fred,
The Subaru doesn't seem to be as popular as it use to be even though I
will be installing one in my 2S. I found an interesting web site this
afternoon that you would like to visit if you haven't already. It is
www.airtrikes.net/engines.shtml. It details these engines and redrives.
Feel free to contact me off line if you wish to discuss further.

Stephen Teate
ste...@compositecooling.com
Paradise, Texas

KR> Brake suggestions?

[Stephen Teate]

"I'm looking of suggestions for a brake replacement."

I will be using the hydraulic brake system from Great Plains. Here is
their web site.  /www.greatplainsas.com/

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Glidden will be finishing his KR...

[Stephen Teate]

"I'm installing a built-in Flightcom ENRI intercom"
Mark,
Please keep us updated on this as I will need to do the same thing and
could use an example to go by.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> Turtle deck

[Stephen Teate]

"turtle deck from wood will weigh about 7 lbs, my question is, how does
this compare weight wise to a composite structure?"

I weighed mine last night and it came out to 10 lbs. Mine is larger than
most as I am 6'5" and have included head room on top of that. It is 37"
W x 20" T and tapers to 13" W x 8" T with a total length of 57". I also
incorporated half of my roll over structure into the front bow of the TD
to avoid making my canopy mechanism do to much work. I incorporated one
stiffening rib that runs down the center on the inside that is 1" x 3".
I think you will find the main advantage of building the TD from glass
is its ability to form compound shapes. My TD wouldn't "look" right if
it went straight from the aft edge of my canopy to the tail so there is
a slight bow at the top before it straightens out.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

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KR> New info - magazine?

[Stephen Teate]

"What was this about my plane being in Kitplanes?  Is this true?"

August 2006 issue with the Sportsman on the cover contains an article on
alternative engines. It details a couple of Subaru and Corvair engines
and one is Bill's KR2S.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> KR Net

[Stephen Teate]

This won't be news to you. The answer to your question is how much do
you want to spend? As mentioned in another post Kent Paser's book "Speed
with Economy" is very good and the suggestions are common sense and
wouldn't cost much. My opinion on the wheel pants is you should
definitely install them. If you go the PR type I wouldn't expect an 8 to
10 knot increase in speed. That comes from a design with a lot more HP
designed to cruise at a lot higher speed. I would however expect 5. Have
you thought about a turbo with intercooler? A good article in this
months Kitplanes shows Bill Clapps plane and mentions his intentions to
install a turbo. Might be one to keep tabs on.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Mark Jones
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:04 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> KR Net

I do have one question. I have a need for speed...How do I get this
thing to
go faster? 148 WOT just is not enough for me. I think I need a higher
pitched prop. I know adding wheel pants will help some. Maybe an
o-360

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI  USA
E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
Visit my NEW
KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at www.flykr2s.com



- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Kraut" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:57 PM
Subject: RE: KR> KR Net


> I guess that now that you are done building the number of "How do I
build
> this?" questions have dropped in half. :)
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
> Behalf Of Mark Jones
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 1:23 PM
> To: KR Net (E-mail)
> Subject: KR> KR Net
>
>
> Has anyone other than me noticed how few actual KR related posts are
made
> here any more. This list is designed for KR information, right? Sure
would
> be nice to get back to the way it was when I was in the middle of my
> building stage. Back then, there was things to learn from every post.
Can
we
> not evolve this list back to a KR building and information forum? My
> keyboard no longer has a delete button it cause I simply wore it out.
>
> BTW: TODAY IS A MILESTONE...We are transitioning form three digits to
double
> digits as of today there are only 100 days left to the KR Gathering.
:-)
>
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI
> Web site: www.flykr2s.com
> Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com
>
>
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>
>
>
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KR> KR Net

[Stephen Teate]

I picked up about 12 MPH with gear leg fairings over Diehl gear and
wheel pants on 2180 powered KR-2...

Wow, that's over 10 knots. That is better than I thought you would get.
Also you reminded me of a question I need to ask. Last night I put the
final touches to me Diehl gear legs. I put trailing edge fairings and
rounded the leading edge. I will next add the intersection fairings but
my concern is cracking of these fairings. Have you experienced this?

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas





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KR> KR 35th anniversary

[Stephen Teate]

I would bet that we could get one of the microbreweries to run a batch
of 
private-label commemorative brew for the 35th anniversary event.  How
about 
we call it "KR Lager", or "Composite Stout", or even "KRNet Pale Ale"?

Excellent idea Oscar! I will gladly take a case of each!

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

KR> rpm and boost pressure- sorry it is so long

[Stephen Teate]

Sorry Jaco but the only info I can help with is the turbo. That gap is
very much the problem. A turbo is just a centrifugal compressor jet
engine without the burner cans and just like any jet engine tip
clearances are extremely important. I don't know what the tip clearance
should be on your particular model but if it is a reputable turbo shop
they will have all that info and the experience to rebuild it. I am a
big fan of turbos but how they are used does affect engine life. Don't
know what kind of oil you are using but if you haven't considered it you
might think about synthetic.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress,

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Jaco Swanepoel
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 11:18 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> rpm and boost pressure- sorry it is so long

Hi Guys,
  I need some info please. I was getting 1900 rpm max on my 2L,VW, Type
4, Turbo, Fuel Injection. After consulting various people, I rebuilt the
exhaust manifold and re-set the hydraulic lifters. Now I manage to get
2800 rpm but still no boost from the turbo. I stripped out the turbo and
took it to a local turbo repair shop. They say that the gap between the
disc and the casing is 2mm and it should only be 3/10 of 1mm. I gave
them the go ahead to rebuild it, but could this really be the problem.
What rpm and boost should I be getting?? Apparently it should be
3400-3600 rpm and 40 in boost. Does this sound right? I am turning a 52
x 49 wooden prop. One guy also suggested that I replace the hydraulic
lifters with solid lifters, any thoughts?
  Regards,
  Jaco Swanepoel
  Pretoria
  South Africa
  KR2S,  ZU-DVP


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KR> Foamed Tires

[Stephen Teate]

My fuselage is inverted and I am trying to finish everything that will
be mounted to it while gravity is on my side! My wheel pants are a few
weeks off, but knowing the importance of a tight fit between the
tire/pant and reading what happens to the pant if you get a flat tire, I
was wondering if anyone has ever gone the foam filled route on their
tires? If so, any problems?



Stephen Teate

Paradise, Texas

ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> Foamed Tires

[Stephen Teate]

I should have been more specific about my question. I will be using the
5" Azusa tires but my plan was to inflate the tubes with foam instead of
air to minimize maintenance and complexity of the wheel pants. However,
Steve is right the foam will be a lot heavier than the air and I
definitely don't need more weight. 



Thanks all,



Stephen Teate

ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> Questions on Stabilizer/Elevator Construction

[Stephen Teate]

You are correct Allen, it is always better to taper the plywood. It
reduces the stress concentration that would occur otherwise. And the
taper needs to be pretty healthy, if I recall 10 or 12 to 1 is the
recommendation. You can do the trim tab either way. I made my hinge line
parallel to the spar so the trailing edge of my trim tab is slanted. I
guess you could say this would produce slightly less drag as there
wouldn't be a "side" force applied from the angled trim tab sides. But
any deflection in a trim tab is going to produce drag so which ever way
is easiest for you will work.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Allen Wiesner 
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 1:01 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Questions on Stabilizer/Elevator Construction

I have just been making my own drawing on the Stab./El. assy.
(consolidating everything on one piece of (virtual) paper helps to get
it all straight in my head) and I've noted two things. 

1.  The 1/4" plywood doublers are shown cut off square.  I have always
thought that it was good practice to taper the ends.  Has anyone
bothered to taper them?

2.  The trim tab sides are shown as cut perpendicular to the spar.
Wouldn't it be more practical to have them cut perpendicular to the trim
tab hinge line and the trailing edge of the elevator?

Allen G. Wiesner  KR-2SS/TD S/N 1118
65 Franklin Street
Ansonia, CT  06401-1240

(203) 732-0508

flash...@usadatanet.net 
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KR> Hello, I'm New Wannabe

[Stephen Teate]

Hello Noel and welcome to the party! I will have to let others answer
your first question as I started with a set of KR-2 plans, then upgraded
to the 2S and can't remember the numbers to either one. Your second
question is interesting. Laminating two pieces of steel and then loading
them in any way is asking a lot from your epoxy. You will have to spend
a lot of time prepping the surfaces and even then using the epoxies I am
familiar with I wouldn't trust it for anything structural. If you really
had to go this route I would suggest you get it welded. However, even
"properly" welded I don't believe you will get the same strength due to
the change in the base metal that occurs at the weld. Enjoy the build!
You will have other questions and the archives of this site is full of
excellent info so check it out whenever you need to.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

  I have 2 questions right off:
  Q1. What is the master file book?  I remember one member who purchased
his plan way back, like in the 80's, has a higher master file book#.
Did I get an outdated plan??
  Q2. If I epoxy 2 pieces of equal-length 4130 strips one exactly on top
of the other, is the strength doubled or bettered?  eg. 2 pieces of
0.125 in x 1.5 in x 7.5 in  of 4130 strips = 1 piece of  0.25 in x 1.5
in x 7.5 in  of 4130 strips?

  Thanks for your input.

  Noel Bong
  noel_gene...@yahoo.com




Truly,

Noel Bong



-
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save big.
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KR> FAA Publications

[Stephen Teate]

AC 43-13 1B "Acceptable Methods and Practices" I think is the number and
title but this is a book and not a pamphlet which may be what you are
looking for. 

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of D F Lively
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:54 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> FAA Publications

Netters:

There is an FAA publication that I am seeking that is widely referred to
as
the "Homebuilt A/C Homebuilders Bible" does anyone have the FAA
publication
number or exact title so I may order a copy?

"Joseph H. Horton" wrote:

> >  So, what difference does it make.  Seems to make more sense to have
> > the
> > nuts where you can easily see them.
> >
> > ---Original Message---
> >
> >
> > F A A convention recommends that the bolt heads be forward,
> > Virg
> >
> I agree with Dan and so does the inspector the finaled my plane. The
nuts
> for the engine mount would be hidden back under the top shelf and
would
> be very difficult to inspect and safety wire. As mine is now I see
those
> nuts every time I take the cowl off. If the FAA says it should be the
> other way around They may be looking at installations that have more
> access on the rear side of the firewall or maybe thinking that if a
nut
> would come off the mount would have to pull the whole blot out to come
> off. Neither argument would be better than being able to see and fix a
> problem before it got worse. IMHO
> Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA.
> joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com
>
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KR> Pitot Tubes

[Stephen Teate]

One for the guys currently flying. I assume the top longerons are
designed to be level in cruise flight and that is what you want to align
and level your pitot tube to. Right or wrong?



Stephen Teate

Paradise, Texas

KR> CAD Software

[Stephen Teate]

I would agree with Mark and Ronald. I have used AutoCAD for about
fifteen years and Solid Works for the last two. It really does depend
what you want to do. Depending on your cad experience level, I would
recommend the least expensive program you can get your hands on. It
should be "fairly" easy to learn and it will be a 2D (two dimensional)
program and that is all you should need. 3D or parametric modelers
(Solid Works or Inventor) are more for show and require a pretty decent
machine to run on. 

Stephen
Paradise, Texas

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 9:51 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: KR> CAD Software

KR Netters (especially you CAD guys):

This question is a two-parter: 1) What CAD software do you use and, 2)
What
would you recommend for a new CAD user / KR builder?

I've searched the archives and fould only two references to specific CAD
software - PowerPoint (?) and VectorEngineer.  I'm interested if anyone
has
any opinions on packages such as TurboCAD, IntelliCAD, Alibre, or any
other
I may have overlooked.

Thanks and I look forward to your responses.

Bill Johnson
Digital Printing & Imaging, Inc.
3240 Town Point Drive, Suite 130
Kennesaw, GA 30144
Ph: 404-228-8333
Fx: 404-228-8331
http://www.dpiweb.com


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RE: Réf. : KR> Fw: CorvAircraft> KR Corvair Crash Mystery Solved

[Stephen Teate]

What started out as a "rural" airport ten, twenty, or thirty years ago can now 
be completely surrounded by housing developments. It just depends what part of 
the country you are in.

Stephen
Paradise, Tx

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of 
Serge VIDAL
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:21 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Réf. : KR> Fw: CorvAircraft> KR Corvair Crash Mystery Solved

Hmmm! I always thought that when making a first flight, you're supposed to 
remain in the circuit. How did he end up in a residential area?

Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France





"Mark Langford" 

Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net
25/04/2006 19:10
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 25/04/2006 19:10


Pour :  "KRnet" 
cc :supp...@esosoft.com, (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : KR> Fw: CorvAircraft> KR Corvair Crash Mystery Solved



KRNetHeads,

Here's something that Mark Jones sent to KRnet earlier this morning, but 
never made it.  Apparently there is a problem posting to the list (it lost 

one of mine last night), so I'm forwarding it back to the list again to 
see 
if it makes it this time.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Jones" 
To: "CorvAircraft (E-mail)" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:34 AM
Subject: CorvAircraft> KR Corvair Crash Mystery Solved

NTSB Identification: NYC06LA092
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, April 11, 2006 in North Andover, MA
Aircraft: Michaud KR2S, registration: N24065
Injuries: 1 Minor.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain 
errors. 
Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been 

completed.

On April 11, 2006, at 0814 eastern daylight time, a homebuilt KR2S, 
N24065, 
was substantially damaged during a forced landing near North Andover, 
Massachusetts, following a partial loss of engine power while departing 
Lawrence Municipal Airport (LWM), Lawrence, Massachusetts. The 
certificated 
private pilot sustained minor injuries. Visual meteorological conditions 
prevailed, and no flight plan was filed for the local personal flight 
conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.

According to a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector, the pilot 
built the accident airplane over a period of approximately 10 years. The 
airplane was equipped with a converted 1983 General Motors Corporation 
Corvair automobile engine.

The accident flight was the first flight in the airplane. During the 
initial 
climb, about 200 feet agl, the engine lost partial power. Specifically, 
the 
propeller rpm decreased from 3,200, to 2,300. The pilot was unable to 
maintain altitude, and the airplane struck trees in a residential area 
during a forced landing. The airplane subsequently came to rest inverted 
in 
the trees.

Examination of the wreckage by the FAA inspector revealed approximately 2 
gallons of fuel remaining in the airplane's 9-gallon header fuel tank. The 

inspector did not observe any contamination in the airplane's fuel or fuel 

filter.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net 


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KR> Trim Tabs

[Stephen Teate]

Last night I was working on my elevator trim tab. It is the stock size
and location and looks like I will get between 20 & 25 degrees of
deflection each way. Is this enough?



Thanks in advance,

Stephen

Paradise, Texas

KR> Scott Crossfield

[Stephen Teate]

The report I just read was off Yahoo news. The reporter said
thunderstorms were in the area, he was flying a Cessna 210A, and it
happened around 11:15 am. Don't know if any of that is true.

Stephen
Paradise, Texas

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of W Jeff York
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:11 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Scott Crossfield

What happened? did you hear?

Jeff York
- Original Message - 
From: "Frank Ross" 
To: "KR net" 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: KR> Scott Crossfield

KR> Cabin Heat

[Stephen Teate]

Hello Don,
I am currently building a 2S with an EA-82 with a belt redrive. I will
be taking cabin heat off of the exhaust side of my radiator. I am just
getting into the engine tear down and redrive fabrication so I still
have a way to go.
Stephen Teate
Paradise, TX
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of D F Lively
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 9:00 PM
To: KRNET
Subject: KR> Cabin Heat

Listees:

Has anyone ever used a Subaru conversion in a KR2?  Would probably
provide an easy way of heating the cabin, at a weight penelty of
course.

Don



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KR> Hercules Engine?

[Stephen Teate]

Netters,

This past weekend I went to a farm auction and happened across a little
four cylinder opposed engine. It looked like it came out of some kind of
military generator and I expected to see a Lycoming data plate on it.
But when I looked closer I noticed it only had one mag mounted
"Continental Style" pointing forward and the mfg. plate said Hercules
Engines. Does anyone know the story on these engines?

Thanks in advance,

Stephen Teate

Paradise, TX

ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> Welders

[Stephen Teate]

I am looking for some advice on tig welders. The main players seem to be
Miller or Lincoln. I currently have a Miller 225G portable
welder/generator that I absolutely love. However, on the tig side the
Lincoln seems to be a little less expensive. I have done some reading on
the Lincoln 185 and the Miller 180 and they seem to be pretty
comparable. Any opinions?



Thanks in advance,

Stephen Teate

Paradise, Texas

ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> Paint Run

[Stephen Teate]

 I never thought of a decal but now that someone else has, I know of
a good one.  Al Gore for Latrine Orderly, or Al Gore for Usher to the
Flusher. 
Either one will do.
Now watch all the liberal Democrats flame me.  I am going to send you a
third off net.

Bob Stone

OO careful here Bob. Don't climb to high up on that pedestal.
Some folks might say that as far as VP's go "at least Al is not likely
to kill you!"
And no, I didn't vote for him.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas
ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> FAA Inspection

[Stephen Teate]

OUTSTANDING!! Can't wait to hear the flight reports.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas
ste...@compositecooling.com


-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of JIM VANCE
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:24 AM
To: krnet
Subject: KR> FAA Inspection

YEEE HAA!!

The FAA inspector has just left.  My KR-2, N 303 JV, is now officially
an airplane.

It will be at least a week before I will be able to take the wings off
and trailer it to the airport.

Jim Vance
va...@hbcomm.net
Claflin, Kansas
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KR> Engines

[Stephen Teate]

"Other than cost..."

I think this is the main reason.

Stephen Teate
Paradise, Texas
ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> Tail Graphics

[Stephen Teate]

Ok Mark I need your physical address,I will have my fuselage there by
this weekend. That looks awesome! Thanks for keeping us updated.
Stephen
Paradise, Texas
ste...@compositecooling.com


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Mark Jones
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:37 PM
To: KR Net
Subject: KR> Tail Graphics

Just in case anyone is interested  :-)  here is a link which shows the
tail graphics I just applied.
http://flykr2s.com/photo.html

Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Wales, WI  USA 
E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
Visit my NEW
KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at www.flykr2s.com


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KR> reducing drag on projections.

[Stephen Teate]

I wouldn't worry about Langford, I think he just planted his mahogany
last weekend for the new prop. Seems to me if he had a nose gear he
wouldn't have a problem...BLASPHEMY!!! Just kidding! Fact is he's now a
better pilot for having had the experience. BTW Mr. Jones, beautiful
airplane.

Stephen Teate
ste...@compositecooling.com


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Mark Jones
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:44 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR> reducing drag on projections.

Thanks Harold. Good point on the drag reduction. I think I will go to
the local hobby shop and see if some RC plane canopies might do the
trick. The front could be cut to fit the strobe light lens and epoxied
to the fuselage and strobe lens. You know, I need to do everything I can
think of to reduce drag if I want to be able to fly as fast as some are
claiming. Look out Langford, Flesner and Clapp...I don't want to
chew up your rudder in a simulated dog fight.

Mark Jones (N886MJ) 
Wales, WI 
Visit my web site: http://www.flykr2s.com
Email: mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com 



-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Harold Woods
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:28 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> reducing drag on projections.


Hi Netter,
We must all congratulate Mark Jones on the beautiful fuselage job on his

recent picture.
I was struck by the electronic strobe unit sticking out of the top of
the 
fuselage. A wedge shaped piece of plexi fastened to the back of the unit

would be easy to fabricate and greatly reduce the drag that the round
shape 
will cause.
Regards,
Harold Woods
Orillia, ON. Canada
haroldwo...@rogers.com 


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KR> composite epoxies

[Stephen Teate]

I apologize if this is insulting to anyone, but just so you don't think
that anything that is made out of fiberglass has to be white the real
determining factor is the resin type that will be used. I believe most
"epoxy" resin systems do need to be painted white but "vinylester" and
"polyester" resins can be painted darker colors. The auto industry has
been using them for years on Corvettes and other cars. Unfortunately,
vinyls and polys tend to be more toxic.

Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 9:49 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> composite epoxies

Larry wrote-

>There are tables for temp increase with various color paints. Without 
>looking it up, I would expect skin temps of 170F when exposed to 110F.

Which raises another issue that has been mentioned here before.  If
you're 
using extruded polystyrene foam board (pink Owens-Corning or blue Dow 
Styrofoam, or any other), you'll have other problems.  At about 165F the

polystyrene board will begin to lose its dimensional stability and can
bow, 
warp, cup, or otherwise lose its shape and rigidity.  And I believe that

T-88 structural epoxy will also begin to soften at higher temps.

Like the man said... you can paint your composite airplane any color you

like, as long as it's white ;o)

Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net



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KR> translations

[Stephen Teate]

I wonder if it would work on wives.
Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Harold Woods
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 12:46 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> translations

Hi Netters ,
A posting on the net by  Eduardo Navarrete in Spanish can be easily read
by 
using "Easy Translator 4 Deluxe".  It would be courteous to reply in
Spanish 
by using this tool to convert your English into Spanish and posting a
reply. 
If the original builder had difficulty in English this would be
appreciated 
by him. He should specify that a reply in another language would be 
appreciated.
Rehards
Harold Woods
Orillia , ON.Canada
haroldwo...@rogers.com


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KR> Cheap Clamps

[Stephen Teate]

Netters and new builders,

I will pass along a tip that really helped me when I was clamping all
those gusset blocks in place with cheap, simple, and easily installed
clamps. Since the whole idea is to hold the gussets in place until the
epoxy cures and because you are horizontal to begin with you don't need
a lot of clamping pressure. I went to my local five & dime and bought a
bag of small hair clamps. I think there were fifty in a bag and I bet it
didn't cost five bucks. These things came with teeth that would make a
great white proud and some of them I cut the teeth off and others I left
them on because the "grip angle" of the gusset blocks would require the
grip that these would provide. These clamps were made from thin plastic
and would actually conform to the joint being clamped. They would
provide enough pressure to squeeze the epoxy out but not leave an
impression in the wood which should be avoided. If you have to apply
this much pressure you need to recut the gusset. Epoxies are a lot
better than the resorcinol glues of the past that required near perfect
joint contact but that is not an excuse to be sloppy. By using these
clamps I found that I could "afford" to complete the entire fuselage
side frame at one time instead of having to do it in stages because I
didn't have enough clamps.



Stephen

ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> cad file turtledeck

[Stephen Teate]

Hello Chris,
I apologize if I have missed the point of your post, but if you are just
trying to fabricate your aft turtle deck it was best for me to do it
with the canopy already in place. The canopy is a very flexible item and
will take almost any radius asked of it. It will easily fit many
different fuselage widths and of course this will affect the actual
shape of the canopy. I built the canopy and frame first and then used it
to build my forward and aft turtle decks. I am very happy with the
results.

As for the foam and resin question, I got some of my foam from my local
building supply store/lumbar yard. They had 4' x 8' sheets in both 1"
and 2" thickness. It was a Dow product and light blue in color. I am
using the West System epoxies that are available from Wicks or Aircraft
Spruce. They are not "local" but if I order from Wicks I usually get it
in two days.
Hope this helps,
Stephen

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:50 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> cad file turtledeck

Would anyone have a cad file of the front end of the aft turtledeck
profile to suit a dragonfly or rand robinson kr2s canopy,  any form of
drawing  file in autocad/turbocad/microstation etc, or even just some
measurements would do, I have the height and width from the plans, just
a radius that works for the corners would probably do.
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KR> Spar length

[Stephen Teate]

I increased my stub wing 11 inches on each side. My main reasons for
doing this were to increase my flap area and effectiveness and to
increase wing area due to the weight of my engine. I increased the
number of vertical pieces between the spar caps and then completed it
per plans. I then added 1/4" plywood to the rear of the main stub spar
that extends just beyond the edges of the Diehl gear attach brackets.
These brackets have been moved outside the diameter of the prop for drag
reasons so the additional plywood is almost full length of the spar.
Outer wings are stock and will be the Diehl skins. Realize you are
talking about the main structural component of the aircraft so any
change to this should really be thought about. I don't think a 1'
extension is extreme but since I am not yet flying you might want to do
a search of the archives and see what others have done.
Good luck,
Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of bdazzca...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:42 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Spar length

Hi Netters,

   I was wondering if anyone has extended the length of their inner
spars 
to get over fuel without adding a header tank? If so how much was added
to 
total length? I would like to add a total of 12".. Is this possible? I
would 
also be leaving the outer spars their length.


David Swanson 
bdazzca...@aol.com
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KR> resins

[Stephen Teate]

Paul please give details, this could ruin my weekend!
Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of airgu...@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:54 AM
To: KR List
Subject: KR> resins

I have used West System for fiberglas layups and T88 for wood to wood.
I have tested the wood joints made using T88 to destruction and the wood
always fails before the glue.  Not so when I used the West  System. 

Paul
KR2 In NH
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KR>NEW Web Page

[Stephen Teate]

Very interesting engine. I look forward to reading of your progress.

Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Phil Matheson
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 2:38 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR>NEW Web Page

Due to failure of my KR construction web page ( Net scape) I had to Make
a 
new one with a
better supplier.
The site is not complete as yet, but It should work better than the last
one.

 www.philskr2.50megs.com


Phil Matheson
mathes...@dodo.com.au
New Web Page :
http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
VH-PKR  ( Phil's KR)
61 3 58833588
Australia.( Down Under)
See My KR2 Building Web Page at:
OLD WEB: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html
See our VW Engines and Home built web page at
http://www.vw-engines.com/
www.homebuilt-aviation.com/


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KR> Inspection on Saturday

[Stephen Teate]

Congratulations! Keep us posted on the test flying.
Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of countryhomeprint
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:26 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Inspection on Saturday

Just a note to say that my KR2 is scheduled to be inspected for
airworthyness this Saturday. I am finally complete after 14 years. Yea!
She weighs in at 623 lbs. I will be at Mt. Vernon for the next gathering
weather permitting.

Bill Page
countryhomepr...@bellsouth.net
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KR> Cowl Material

[Stephen Teate]

The chemical that I am familiar with is called Bromine. There are
others. It is a powder or liquid and I believe the powder is a light
brown or tan. The liquid is a red color. I couldn't even begin to tell
you how to mix it with your base resin. I am going to be using Ashland
92 FR for my cowling and cowling duct work. It is a vinyl ester resin
that already has this mixed into it. As I live in Fort Worth I can get
it from a local wholesaler (Graco Supply). Just a side note, a better
description of this stuff would be "self-extinguishing". When you throw
fuel on a cured piece and light it the fuel and resin will burn, but
when the fuel is done the resin will extinguish itself.

Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Phil Matheson
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:46 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Cowl Material


Can anyone tell me about the fire retardant that can be added to glass
resin 
on cowls please.
or where to look it up.

Phil Matheson
mathes...@dodo.com.au
VH-PKR  ( Phil's KR)
61 3 58833588
Australia.( Down Under)
See My KR2 Building Web Page at:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html
See our VW Engines and Home built web page at
http://www.vw-engines.com/
www.homebuilt-aviation.com/


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KR> Lead in the Hogwash

[Stephen Teate]

Awesome site! Thanks for the link, very interesting reading. #43
Detonation Myths is excellent too.

Stephen Teate
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Ronald R.Eason
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 9:21 AM
To: brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net; 'KRnet'
Subject: KR> Lead in the Hogwash


Take a look at this site for a intelligent discussion on av gas dilemma
it a
good read.

https://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182149-1.html


Ronald R. Eason Sr.[KRron]
President / CEO
Ph: 816-468-4091
Fax: 816-468-5465 
http://www.jrl-engineering.com 
Our Attitude Makes The Difference!




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KR> Jeff Scott

[Stephen Teate]

Try this:
jscott.pi...@juno.com

Stephen


-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of bo...@hatconversions.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:15 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Jeff Scott

Soes anyone have any contact info for Jeff Scott. Sure would like to
pick
his brain for about 10 minutes...Thanks,  Bobby

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KR> Newbie

[Stephen Teate]

Welcome to the board John. You have quite a list of questions and I will
give you my 2 cents worth on a couple of them. I am 6'-5", 210 lbs. and
my 2S is widened and lengthened. The structure of the KRs easily allows
this although it means stock factory components can no longer be used. A
2S with two real people aboard and 75 HP is a little marginal on power.
Even though I am going water cooled don't discount the Corvairs, dual
ignition is available.
Good luck,
Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of John Kruckeberg
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:26 PM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Newbie

OK fellas, I have been trolling this forum as well as the Dragonfly and
Sonerai mailing list trying to decide what I want to build.  I would
like something that is side by side and fairly easy to build.  I want
something that flies well and want be too hard to transition from a
cessna 150 to.  More than likely it will be vw powerd.  I like the
corvair engines but like the ability to have two separate ignition
systems on the vw engine.  I am about 6' and weigh 205.  I have narrowed
the choice down to either a kr2, or a sonerai 2ls, or a dragonfly.
Since I want a side by side plane I am leaning more to the kr or the
dragonfly.  My main question is how much room is availible in the kr2s.
Can I fit comfortably with another passenger?  After reading about the
dragonfly they say it has about as much shoulder room as a 172 and
enough leg room for a 6' 6" pilot.  I would rather have a plane with
conventional styling and handling charactoristics and that is why I am
posting here.  What kind
 of usefull load would I have with a to plans built kr2s and the 75hp vw
engine?  Well we will start with this and see what kind of replys I get
and go from there.  I would love to fly down to SC this weekend to meet
some of you and see some krs in person but my 150 is down for some
repairs.


-
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KR> Jeff Scott's KR

[Stephen Teate]

I read the same thing last night. You've got a nice web site and
beautiful KR.
Congratulations Jeff.

Stephen Teate
ste...@compositecooling.com

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Brian Kraut
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:37 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Jeff Scott's KR

I was just reading last months EAA magazine and saw that Jeff Scott's KR
won
the best wood category at Copperstate.  I had not seen it mentioned here
before.  Congratulations.

It is nice to see KRs winning awards at the major fly-ins regularly.  My
bet
is the trend is going to continue.

Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com


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KR> Re:Wet Runways in the winter

[Stephen Teate]

"Or in other words, it refreshes our minds to remember that winter
flying brings with it additional things to consider other then just how
to stay warm when we fly."

There were a couple of good articles on winter flying in the last Sport
Aviation. One had pictures of snow build up on a small airplanes wing.
The wing folded! 
Stephen

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of jeffyor...@qx.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:42 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Re:Wet Runways in the winter

What I meant to say was that in 18 years of flying, he may have never
really
thought of this situation as being a problem

 It also brought to my mind the thought that wheel pants ( not in his
situation) and other items may allow for ice build up from splashing
water
on the taxiways.

Or in other words, it refreshes our minds to remember that winter flying
brings with it additional things to consider other then just how to stay
warm when we fly.

Not sure if I am getting my point across but what I am trying to say
that I
was glad I read this because it made me think.

Jeff York
KR-2 Flying
N839BG
Home page  http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/
My KR-2   http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/   to see my KR-2
Email jeffyor...@qx.net

- Original Message - 
From: "Ron Freiberger" 
To: "'KRnet'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: KR> Re:Wet Runways in the winter


> How do you preflight ice buildup?
>
> Ron Freiberger
> mail to ronandmar...@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: KR> Re:Wet Runways in the winter
>
> I think Kip's story say's a lot for all of us to think about.
>
> The fact that he has flown this plane for 18 years and never had this
> problem. Therefore this was never part of his preflight. WOW !!
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>



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KR> Engine options?

[Stephen Teate]

"Besides the mazda, what's out there in the 70-80 HP range that is not 2
cycle? Any thoughts out there?"
The Honda Prelude & Civic inline 4 cylinder engines have been popular
with the BD5 folks. Also the GEO Metro inline 3 cylinder has been used
in other aircraft. I believe you can find more info on these on the
Contact Magazine website.
Stephen

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of patrusso
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 5:12 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Engine options?

I am looking for a narrower (smaller in physical size) engine for my
single seat KR. My VW is too wide. I want to streamline the firewall
forward to look more in line with P51, 109 etc. Besides the mazda,
what's out there in the 70-80 HP range that is not 2 cycle? Any thoughts
out there?
Pat
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KR> Geared vs direct drive

[Stephen Teate]

Fantastic post! All very good information. Turbos can be wonderful, and
they can destroy an engine that is not properly set up for one. Be
careful of any
"bolt on" as the engine was probably not originally designed to handle
the extra pressures and temperatures. I was lucky enough to get to
discuss my installation with Turbo Tom before he passed and he really
opened my eyes. If you are unfamiliar with them get some advice from
someone who knows them.
They really can make a difference. My opinion.
Stephen


-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Colin Rainey
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 11:52 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Geared vs direct drive

Netters
This debate about best engines for experimentals, and whether to turbo,
whether to Gear drive/PSRU or direct drive has been going on for a while
now, and I suspect will probably continue, kind like the Ford/Chevy
debate (Chevy is best, LOL ).  I am NOT going to take sides of whether a
builder should choose auto or aircraft engine, normally aspirated or
turbo, or direct drive or PSRU.  All these things are in the archives,
and found in literal volumes in other writings, both Internet and books
like, "Auto Engines for Experimental Airplanes" by Robert Finch, just to
sight one example.  There are many others.

What all Netters, especially you new members need to take to heart is
that engine selection is VERY important.  Looking at certified aircraft,
you will see that it it the single most important factor when
considering an aircraft's present value, how many hours on the engine.
Of all the expense of owning an aircraft, once it is completed, the most
money you will spend will be for the engine, and its up
keep/maintenance.  Turbo charging is the cats meow for cheap horsepower,
but just ask Orma Robbins about how this "enhancement" comes with its
own unique set of problems to deal with and overcome.  Also, the article
sighted states that turbo charging generally adds at least 50% more
power. This is out right fiction!  The best that I have seen proven by
dyno runs is approximately 40%, and this is with associated engine
modifications, AND the use of an inter cooler, which is not mentioned in
the article at all.  B&M, Vortech, Banks Turbo-charging, and Paxton all
report similar values for their "bolt-on" systems.  I am not saying that
a turbo or supercharger cannot add 50% or more power, but that rather
that bolt on systems do not give that kind of increase, and do not want
builders running out and buying a turbo for their engine expecting to
get a 50% increase in power and torque by just hacking the exhaust in
order to add the turbo.

The same rules hold true for direct drive vs PSRU.  There are definite
benefits to a PSRU, but to set one up on a 2.2 to 1 reduction, just to
achieve maximum horsepower from an engine from a dyno run, and say that
is best does not take into account all phases of flight for the engine,
only take off. That is the only time you will use max power.  This
amount of reduction although it makes the max power available according
to the dyno, it does not allow for a reasonable rpm for cruise.  This is
because the prop will be slowed to 2000 to 2100 rpm, which begins
putting it below its cruise efficiency speed.  Just compare certified
props that are made to run in this range of rpms.  They produce max
thrust at near redline, and produce best cruise thrust at 75 to 80%
engine power.  This puts the prop at around 2300 to 2400 rpms on a 2750
redline.  This puts the engine in the re drive at 5060 rpms for the
2300, and 5280 rpms for the 2400 rpms at the prop.  Now your engine is
running just like the Rotax family of engines and can expect the same
life, or simply 50 to 100 hour maintenance intervals with a major a max
of 500 hours out.  It also makes the combination "peaky", where
basically you spend literally all your time at or near peak rpm.

Robert Finch's book details a lot of engines that have been successfully
used in direct drive configuration; the Buick V8, the VW family, the
Corvairs, and several others mentioned in his book.  In larger aircraft
that have more generous weight allowances for the engine, the more
complicated and heavier engines have a good appeal.  BUT for our
applications, in order to stay in the RECOMMENDED weight range of
engines AND their output, direct drive offers the best answers, and air
cooled the simplest installation.  Above all, it takes research and
study to decide and engine install, and talking to other actual pilots
of those engines.  Don't get sucked into the trap of some fancy numbers
calculations and good advertising on one web page where one engine is
presented as the experimental airplanes dream engine.  There are a lot
of "assumptions" and over generalizations made at the expense of the
builder.  No quick answers here.  It takes years to build a KR, take
enough time 

KR> just saying hi

[Stephen Teate]

Hey Ken, glad to hear from you. I just starting filling/sanding my first
surface. What is you address and I will send you the rest of them! I
think I am about to get a new appreciation for Jim's song. Fortunately,
I used silk weave as an outer layer on all but the tail surfaces. I am
doing one side of the rudder in Superfill and I plan to do the other in
West System to see which one I like best. Do you have any
recommendations?
Stephen

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of ken
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:05 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> just saying hi






Hi i'm ken and i live in middle ga. i've owned my plans for awile now
but i've yet to start contruction (lack of space and MONEY) i have
enjoyed reading the posts and compiling the info i dont think i will
have any problems once i start my building process cause i have a
background in composite work and finishing (i was an aircraft contractor
painting and also work in boat repair and refinishing--- but i'm a cop
now and dont make as much money  you do see more grey haired cops than
you do see painters)   if anyone needs advice on finishing their
aircraft or lives in the middle ga. area and would like some help let me
know 

   looking forward to hear from yall ken

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KR> saturn engines

[Stephen Teate]

I am going liquid cooled myself. That is a lot of weight especially
without a redrive and prop figured in. I would suggest you double check
your weights including redrive and prop and then do a detail weight and
balance.
Good luck,
Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com


-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of ken
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:34 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> saturn engines






i'm concidering using the new saturn 2.4 dual overhead cam engine it
puts out 150hp and wet weight is around 285lbs minus reduction drive
has anyone else used an inline motor? other than a little plumbing for
the radiator whats the diff to using opposed air cooled   also has
anyone seen that new motor put out by "dyna-cam" 200hp at 2000 rpm and
600lbs of torque at 1500 rpm! water cooled at 300lbs dry 40 inches by
only 30 inches wide for only $30,000 (way out of my price range)

   i found a company that rewires auto motors for aircraft using the
engines comp. but i dont remember what site this was any clues

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KR> lighting systems

[Stephen Teate]

"Also, aluminum of any
kind, strip or braid, will be more likely to corrode  than a shielded
copper cable."
Good point on the corrosion. I was reviewing Tony's Firewall Forward
book last night and he described what you should do if you are using
aluminum. Aluminum fasteners, anti corrosion jelly, etc. Seems like a
lot of trouble to go through instead of just using copper. 
Stephen

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Larry&Sallie Flesner
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 6:19 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR> lighting systems


>
>
>"While we are on the subject of wireing,  I screwed a  1/8x1'' piece of
>aluminum along the inside of the fuselage from tail to firewall via one
>of the bolts holding the engine mount. It seems to work just fine for a
>common ground but I wonder if it is kosher. My battery is behind the
seat,
>connected directly to it. Any comments?"
>( Pat ? )
>+++
>I hope so. I intend to do the same thing with a piece of aluminum
>braiding that I think is usually used to shield large cable. As long as
>I don't overload it, it should work fine.
>Stephen
>++

The 1/8"X1" piece of aluminum all the way to the tail seems a bit much.
If it works for the starter current I'd at least cut it off at the
battery and
run just small gauge wires to the tail for any lights.

As for Stephen's braid, I can't imagine what size of wire it came off of
to be heavy enough to carry starting current.  Also, aluminum of any
kind, strip or braid, will be more likely to corrode  than a shielded
copper cable.

Go to the hardware store and get some #2 welders cable to make
your battery cables.  I think it was #2 I used, I'd have to check.  It
is
multi-strand shielded cable that is very flexible and should easily
handle the load of starting.  You have a fairly long run if your battery
is behind the seat and your battery is going to need all the help it
can get for a nice crisp engine start.

I got my 1.2 hour KR fix in this afternoon.  I came home singing

"It's a great day for flying around,
It's a great day for leaving the ground,
la da da, da da da da da.":-)

Larry  Flesner


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KR> TSO'd Instruments

[Stephen Teate]

Yea Dan I was. Cost is obviously a big concern and since it is an
experimental and VFR at that it will probably be the deciding factor.
Thanks for the input I just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing
something.
Stephen

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Dan Michaels
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:30 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> TSO'd Instruments

I figured he was refering to identical instruments one TSO'd one not.

Dan
- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Flesner" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: KR> TSO'd Instruments


> At 12:28 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote:
>>TSO'd instruments are generally the same as non TSO'd they just do not

>>have
>>the documentation for Ceritfied planes.
>>Dan
> +++
>
>
> And some are built "cheaper" ( can you say made in China) and are
> not of the same quality.  I'd suggest you decide just what you intend
> to purchase and then post to the web to see if anyone has any
> experience with that instrument / brand.
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date:
11/5/2005
>
> 


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KR> diehl wing skins

[Stephen Teate]

You are correct. I reviewed Dan's tape again last weekend and he relates
a story of one customer who used safety-poxy to join the skins.
Apparently the customer "bumped" them after they were cured and they
cracked along the seam. The customer then peeled them off the airplane!
Stephen

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of da...@alltel.net
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 11:19 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: RE: KR> diehl wing skins

My experience says that Epoxy does not bond well to VE.  When we are
talking wings, use VE and nothing else.  I am sure that is what Dan
Diehl would recommend.  

If you rough it up enough, epoxy will make a bond, but I don't think it
good enough to trust to your wings.

Dan H.


From: larry severson 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 2005/11/10 Thu AM 10:03:18 CST
To: KRnet 
Subject: RE: KR> diehl wing skins


>The skins are made from Vinyl Ester Resin.  You must use Vinyl Ester 
>Resin for any and all glue work that touches the skins.  You must 
>not use epoxy to glue the Vinyl Ester skins.  Epoxy will not bond to 
>cured Vinyl Ester.

You have that backwards. Vinyl ester will not bond with epoxy. Epoxy 
bonds beautifully with VE according to the composites chair at 
Cerritos College (rated the best composite training school in the 
U.S. by Composites Manufacturing Magazine).


Larry Severson
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(714) 968-9852
lar...@socal.rr.com 


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KR> lighting systems

[Stephen Teate]

I hope so. I intend to do the same thing with a piece of aluminum
braiding that I think is usually used to shield large cable. As long as
I don't overload it, it should work fine.
Stephen

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of patrusso
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:19 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> lighting systems

"While we are on the subject of wireing,  I screwed a  1/8x1'' piece of 
aluminum along the inside of the fuselage from tail to firewall via one
of 
the bolts holding the engine mount. It seems to work just fine for a
common 
ground but I wonder if it is kosher. My battery is behind the seat, 
connected directly to it. Any comments?"



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KR> TSO'd Instruments

[Stephen Teate]

Last night I was shopping with my A.S. catalog for instruments. There
are some fairly significant differences in price between TSO'd and
non-TSO'd instruments. I am curious who is using which one and why?

Thanks in advance,

Stephen

ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> Nose Gear

[Stephen Teate]

The pictures from Mt. Vernon look great and one of these days I hope to
be one of the participants. The last time I talked to Steve Jones it was
about the vacuum set-up he was using. He was in the process of doing a
little rework to the aircraft after an "exciting" landing. Until I saw
the pictures from Mt. Vernon I didn't realize that he changed his nose
gear. I know he built the old one himself but the new one looks like it
might be an RV type. Anyone know for sure?

Thanks in advance,

Stephen

ste...@compositecooling.com

KR> Nose Gear

[Stephen Teate]

Fair enough.
Thanks Eric

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+steate=compositecooling@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Pitts Eric MSgt 181FW/MXOO
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:10 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Nose Gear

When I had talked to him about his nose gear, he had built it also but
was
running an RV fork and wheel pants.

Eric Pitts
Terre Haute IN
KR2S
http://home.att.net/~e.j.pitts/  
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KR> Engine Ads

[Stephen Teate]

Hello again everyone,
Some very interesting points being made on this discussion. Ask ten
folks about engines and you will get fifteen different responses! I
fully admit my negativity towards "certified" engines and my
appreciation of "alternative engines". However, since I was a general
aviation A&P until June of this last year I do feel I am entitled. Now
back to engines. The point was made earlier that you shouldn't discount
a design just because it is old. This is absolutely true. Automotive
power plants are perfect examples of this. If I go out and buy the most
inexpensive car today I will get a modern, computer controlled
(ignition, timing, fuel ratio), fuel injected, liquid cooled power
plant. If I buy the latest "certified" powered aircraft I get two
magnetos for an ignition source, no timing control, two manual handles
to control fuel/air mixture and if I am lucky enough to be able to
afford the fuel injection I will have to go to another manufacturer
(GAMI) to get optimum performance. Fortunately, FADEC is coming and it
will eventually get here, but until then look to the automotive world
for advanced or modern features and if possible, consider incorporating
them in your design.

Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com

---Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Scott William
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:48 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: RE: KR> Engine Ads



--- Stephen Teate  wrote:

>> 
> Hello all! As this is my first post please excuse
> any procedural
> failings on my part. Let's talk engines. Several
> models of Subaru
> engines are interference engines. For those who
> don't know what that
> means, it is where the valve travel and piston
> travel overlap. Obviously
> a bad thing. Like I said, some models of Subaru
> engines are design this
> way. Mine is not. It is a 4 cylinder
> turbocharged/intercooled
> fuel-injected EA-82.

Here is a list of the newest powerplants by Subaru

1.8 used in Impreza - not interference
3.3 used in SVX - interference
3.0 6cyl in newer OB - interference
2.0 turbo in WRX - interference
all 2.5 DOHC and SOHC (96-present) - interference
all 2.2 - not interference



> As for other engines, if you want to use an air
> cooled engine designed
> in the 30's and who's parts will require a second
> mortgage, or one that
> was designed in the late 50's and hasn't been in
> production for 35 to 40
> years,

That's a really interesting way to introduce
yourselfby printing negative propaganda (read:
your opinion) about widely used and reliable aircraft
engines. 


The small block chevy came out of the 50'sdoes
this mean that GM shouldn't be using it in cars built
now?  Reliable design, history of good data.stop
building them? 


> or use a modern liquid cooled engine with
> it's added weight and
> perceived complexity, then do it.

BwahahahahahahaSo tell me Stephen, what is
"modern" about an EA-82? It was produced in the early
eighties (20 years ago) and was a derivative of an
engine produced in the early 70's that can trace it's
design back to the 60's.  The EA-82 was a notorious
rod-thrower. Ask anyone who used to own a Subaru Brat
with the EA81.  

> The point is there
> are issues with
> whatever engine you choose.


You are correct, but you did not have to make negative
comments about all air-cooled aircraft engines to make
your point. 

As experimental aircraft builders, we will all choose
a powerplant that tickles our fancy, some even blazing
new trails with powerplants never tried before. 


But to use the old argument that certified engines are
dinosaurs..People will have a hard time taking you
seriously.


Scott





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KR> Engine Ads

[Stephen Teate]

"Also something to keep in mind about Subaru engines that no one has
mentioned yet is, most have timing belts. They are difficult to change
due to the amount of engine assemblies that must be removed to get to it
(less for the plane version).  They are also INTERFERENCE engines. This
means that when the belt breaks, you have valve damage for sure.  A bad
day got worse."

Hello all! As this is my first post please excuse any procedural
failings on my part. Let's talk engines. Several models of Subaru
engines are interference engines. For those who don't know what that
means, it is where the valve travel and piston travel overlap. Obviously
a bad thing. Like I said, some models of Subaru engines are design this
way. Mine is not. It is a 4 cylinder turbocharged/intercooled
fuel-injected EA-82. This engine does use timing belts to operate the
overhead valves but are external to the engine so inspection and
replacement if necessary are easily accomplished. 
As for other engines, if you want to use an air cooled engine designed
in the 30's and who's parts will require a second mortgage, or one that
was designed in the late 50's and hasn't been in production for 35 to 40
years, or use a modern liquid cooled engine with it's added weight and
perceived complexity, then do it. The point is there are issues with
whatever engine you choose. Do your research, look at several sources,
especially the ones that don't like your choice, take what any "engine
builder" says with a large grain of salt and above all use common sense.
Find out the problems with your engine choice, THEY ALL HAVE THEM, and
take the steps necessary to minimize or eliminate them.
Hope I wasn't to long winded,
Stephen
ste...@compositecooling.com 

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On
Behalf Of Colin Rainey
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 9:08 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> Engine Ads

Netters need to be aware that alot of people talk about what their
engine does in one statement when they are actually covering several
different factors.  People will advertise an economy of so many gallons
an hour, while cruising at a high cruise speed.  Then in practice actual
builder/owners report the speed is achieved but not the economy at that
speed.  Example: a Corvair engine can cruise at 3 to 4 gallons an hour
just like the VW, and can push the KR up to speeds of 150 to 180 mph.
But to say it can cruise at 170 mph at 3 gallons an hour is not over
exaggerating, it is a lie!  It can do one, or the other but not both at
the same time.  My VW would use almost 3.5 gallons and hour all the
time, due to restricted time in climb, and lots of time in cruise
testing.  But it never got over 140 mph, and would cruise at 125 mph.
Talk to actual aircraft owners who are NOT selling their plane for
accurate reports of the engine in question.  Also something to keep in
mind about Subaru engines that no one has mentioned yet is, most have
timing belts. They are difficult to change due to the amount of engine
assemblies that must be removed to get to it (less for the plane
version).  They are also INTERFERENCE engines. This means that when the
belt breaks, you have valve damage for sure.  A bad day got worse.  The
Corvair is gear drive, like the VW and the GM 4.3 V6 is chain drive.  I
could go on, but I think all see my point about doing your research and
not getting sucked in to advertising.
Remember, if it was such a Chariot/cream puff, why is he/she selling it!

Also make sure that you check on the CONTINUOUS rated hp for the engine
desired and its rpm, not just peak numbers.  2 cycles make good hp, but
have to run in the top part of their designed rpms to make any
significant hp at all.  This will have a big impact on the PSRU/Prop you
use.

Pump gas is good, but remember it has alcohol in it which absorbs water.
Also it will gum up a carb if left parked for extensive periods of time.
I would suggest a diet of premium gas for regular running, but top up to
park it on 100LL, and make sure that the 100LL is in the carb when at
rest/parked, unless you are flying at least every 3 to 4 days.
Otherwise, if it sits parked for a month or two due to personal
scheduling, the carb is going to start getting this lacquer like
brown/gold film in it from the pump gas, and you will have to re-build
it prematurely.  You will also periodically have to add a gas treatment
to absorb any water that you do not get sumped off.


Colin Rainey
brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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