KR> Fw: Last of the newsletters, Quarterly newsletters, brake update

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

>From: Mark Langford via KRnet 


>Sure is quiet lately!  Too cold to work on KRs, and too busy shopping or 
>making Christmas presents anyway, I'm guessing.  


Oh contra my friend. The shop is a toasty 64 deg and the progress is going 
well. Rudder horn completed, rudder hinges completed. Rudder cables nearly 
complete. A few odd ball parts to order to complete a number of things and 
should be ready to mount elevator in a week or so. Then vertical stab and 
rudder foam and glass and yes with the antenna in it. Having fun in the cold. 
Merry Christmas to all.Joe Horton

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KR> aileron controls

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Morning Guys,How important is the differential aileron deflection in 
anyones opinion.  I am working through the final configuration of a push 
pull system and getting 20 deg down and 10 deg. Up on the opposite side is a 
bit problematic. (I think)Thanks,Joe Horton,N357CJSecond one under construction

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KR> build it light

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hello Guys land Dolls, As some of you already know I took over a project 
from Eric Pitts over the summer. I think that I might be the fifth owner of 
this project and there have been many changes from owner to owner. This is a 
unique project that was started by Dr. Dean about 16 years ago now. So there is 
no blame to be found here just observations on how a plane can weigh a ton ( 
not really an exaggeration). When I got it home I took every assembly and 
cataloged and weighed them. I then started to evaluate how I wanted this plane 
to turn out and then evaluated what  weight reductions could be done. To be 
very fair there are many very well built assemblies that I well use pretty much 
as is.   The first and largest was the fuselage on gear. (too many little 
items included or not included for anyone to make a comparison) This weighed in 
at 150#. I have removed a lot of epoxy runs and spills. The use of flox while 
in the right places was 2 to 3 times what was needed for fillets and edge of 
foam filling. Wood blocking from different configurations of systems was all 
still in place, even though not used anymore. The result so far is a reduction 
of nearly 10# from just this assembly. I still see another 3# in lightening 
holes and a couple more things to remove. (Like tail wheel support) The seat 
had a much smaller yield but still gains to be had. It started at 8.5# and with 
just sanding  extra flox out came down to 8# even.There are a couple 
things that I am trying to share here in thinking about where you might be able 
to build a part a bit lighter. One item is in blocking. If you are trying to 
use a block of wood for a gusset or support and is is being used or glued on 
two sides consider it being a triangular piece instead of a square piece. Half 
the weight for free. In most cases just epoxy is enough on the surfaces that is 
in contact. Flox fillets are likely over kill and just more weight. (Yes, 
ounces add up to pounds) Also if it is a long blocking situation think if it is 
needed full length or if one or several short pieces would do the same job. 
   Clean up extra epoxy runs and spill overs. Use peel ply as much as you can. 
Again it does make a difference on ever part. Be careful of the edge depth that 
is filled with flox on every part. I think the rule of thumb is a 1/4" and it 
could be a triangular 1/4" if the edge is over 1/2" wide. If the edge is that 
wide or more I might suggest that the flox edge still only be the 1/4" 
triangular edge and and a layer of glass to cover the surface with peel ply to 
take out the excess epoxy. Lightening holes are  another very efficient 
way to to save weight. I made two new mounting brackets for control stick 
assembly out of aluminum angle. I was able to reduce the weight of each bracket 
by exactly half with lightening holes with no loss of structural integrity. The 
brackets weighed about 3 ounces each so basically I got 2 for one weight wise. 
Not a lot but again ounces make pounds and I will not have another 700 plus 
pound KR.Give your bird a free Christmas present by saving weight. 
Remember you save fuel forever for every ounce that you don't need to drag into 
the air. Think before you beef up a part that has served as is for 40 years of 
KR's. Think if it really does need to be thicker. Think if it needs to be steel 
instead of aluminum. Think if it really needs another layer of glass. Think if 
you really need heavy electric motors instead of light flap or trim hand 
operated. Look at every part you make and wonder if it is the lightest way that 
it can be completed.All my best,Joe Horton  

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KR> home again

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey guys took a little trip again this weekend. Flew down to Barnwell for the 
engine building weekend by William Wynne. There was a good turn out with a few 
KR guys there. IT was beautiful weather but for the trip down I continued my 
streak of only flying if there is a head wind. With another 4.7 hours down and 
.5 hours on the way home I have about 40 hours of consecutive cross country 
flying into a head wind. Can anyone top that? It did get better on the way home 
and I saw ground speeds of up to 215mph the last hour.Hope everyone is getting 
the air they need.Joe Horton. 


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KR> Chino trip

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey Guys,
 I had planned to write up a bit of a story and include a few pictures of 
the trip of a life time for me but I had a computer melt down at the very 
moment that I was down loading the picture card and I lost over 300 pictures 
from the time we left LosAlmos until I got home. I'm very unhappy with this to 
say the least.
Joe Horton

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KR> 2014 KR Gathering

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Alrighty Guys,I arrived home by air at 3 pm eastern time. A few of the 
sististics are (not exact as I am just figguring them out now) About 5000 miles 
flown over a five day period. 12 airports and 8 of them new to me. 36 hours in 
the air. longest leg about 4 hours or nearly 600 miles. About 170  gals of fuel 
burned. average fuel burn about 4.7 gal per hour.  average ground speed 139mph. 
I did not see a tail wind anywhere in all of this flying. I think I deserve a 
little bit of tail winds once in a whaile. I landed safely at home but it 
seemed like I was still in Kansas as the wind was 18 g to 24 and I waited til I 
got home to get pushed of the taxi way into the grass by a gust of wind.I had a 
great time,Joe Horton

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KR> update

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hi everyone, I made my final landing for the day in mid Arknesaw.  Still 960 
miles from home. The weather was perfect all day, but the wind never did give 
any help. But not having a head wind at least ground speed and true air speed 
were the same. If I'm not foggged in in the morning I should be able to do one 
more stop and be home sometime mid afternoon. Thanks for all the memories.Joe 
Horton

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KR> gear location

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Sid,, The reason that I gave a measurment from the rear face of the main 
spar is because not everyone's or even maybe no one's leading edge is in the 
same place. There are several different airfoils around and different hands 
building them. But the gear axle relative to the main spar would always be a 
station that is  the same that anyone can check from.  I am concerned and 
understand what the problem is and I would not think that a 1/4" or 1/2" move 
would have any serious impact on W but a 3" move of the gear center line is 
very significant. Joe horton

-- Forwarded Message --
From: Sid Wood via KRnet krnet at list.krnet.org

Now, it's on to fixing the main gear wheel location; needs to be moved 3 
inches further aft on my KR-2.  Both KR and Diehl plans are silent on this 
main wheel location dimension.

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA






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KR> Main gear locations

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Sid,I just happen to have measured my locations for mains and nose wheel the 
other night to compare to the new project. N357CJ main axle center line is 7" 
behind the main spar and the nose wheel axle is 10" in front of the firewall. I 
agree that the actual dimension is not in the instructions but this is where it 
ends up if  all the landing gear parts that come with the Deihl kit are used in 
the instructed configuration. I checked it against the project that I am 
working on and it is nearly identical even thought the fuselages are very 
different. I know that yours is a KR2 but the location relative to the spar is 
always going to be the same. I don't remember that you mentioned the location 
relative to the spar but only was it related to the weight and balance 
stations.Joe Horton


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KR> Collin Hales world tour

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey guys- You can follow Collin on Facebook at KRii Worldtour. You may have to 
ask to be friend but he took me so the rest of ya should be no problem.Joe 
Horton
-- Forwarded Message --
From: ol' weirdo via KRnet 
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> (no subject)
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:54:18 -0400

is the more information re Colin hales? How did he get from Iceland to the
US?

Bill Weir
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KR> Brakes

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey guys,Does anyone have heel breaks installed? if so got any pictures? How do 
they work?Joe HortonCoopersburg, Pa


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KR> Off Subject a bit

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey folks- I believe in being supportive to friends in every way. Eric Pitts is 
undergoing heart surgery this morning and I would like to see the KR community 
support him with well wishes or prayers. Thank youJoe Horton


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KR> KR factory reopens in PA.

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey Guys,Well it looks like I'm back at it. I picked up a partially 
completed kit from Eric Pitts over the weekend. This is the original Dr. Dean 
fuselage project. Eric had accumulated much of the materials need to complete 
the airframe and engine as well as some of the instrumentation. The workmanship 
is very high on this airframe and as much as I love N357CJ I think this well 
turn out to be a show stopper. I well be a few weeks sorting and storing parts 
and evaltuating where She is in the building process before I get started but I 
think that she could be ready to fly by January of 2016 with a steady work 
pace. Agressive? Maybe but I don't have to guess and rebuild what I know I want 
to do this time.  A quick run down of where I see her getting to is: The new 
larger airfoil (AS5048?) tail feathers larger and with airfoils, corvair 
engine, split flaps with a full across belly board, faired exaust, plunum 
cooling, glass panel, wing tanks with a smaller header tank for gravity fuel 
feed, maybe a rear facing window in the turtle deck,  a lot more shoulder and 
head room, wider gear stance, trigear, foreward tilt canopy.A lot of these 
items are already started or done and were things I wanted to do so it is kinda 
like I started it from scratch because the several previous builders (mostly 
Eric) were following the changes that have been advocated over the past 10 
years or so.More to followJoe Horton 

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KR> Phun Phriday Phact

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

I just ran across a odometer on my gps while I was programing in the trip to 
Chino. It shows just shy of 12000 miles flown presumably since I bought it 4 
years ago. I thought it was interestingJoe Horton

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KR> British Kr2 flying through America.

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Colin,I would be more than happy to help you out with the bike. It could be 
shipped to our business address as we get fedx and ups everyday. I am located 
at KUKT Quakertown Pennsylvannia. About 50 miles north of Philadelphia. I would 
be honored to have you as a guest and a couple hot meals. Let me know if your 
interested.Joe Horton, N357CJ

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KR> Fw: Re: Radio call type designator

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Dan- I think this may be the difference between accepted practice and the 
official word. Bottom line is the controlers will determine what you may be 
called. the object is to not be on the radio very long and they get the 
information from the name. honestly I doubt that they would care if you called 
yourself RV 123 DH. Like Jeff said it gives them the performance information 
that they need to do their job.

-- Forwarded Message --
From: Dan Heath via KRnet 
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: Re: KR> Radio call type designator
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:38:25 -0400

So why do we say "Experimental"?  I had understood that they wanted that for 
all experimentals.  I know the RVs at my airport call "Experimental".

Dan

On Thursday, June 26, 2014 1:14 PM, Jeff Scott via KRnet  wrote: 

=
You'll hear the RV guys call in as "RV 123 Romeo Victor", but that's because 
the 
RVs have become so ubiquitous that the controllers all know the type of 
aircraft,

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KR> Radio call type designator

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

ToddExperimental 357Charlie Joilett. That gives them the information they need 
and they may ask for your speed range so that they can properly work you into 
the other traffic as an experimental  could be from 40 kts to 300 kts.Joe Horton

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KR> Fw: Re: Weight & Balance

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Paul,This may be a simpletons answer but I think the new wing was designed 
completly around the KR design. So all the paerameters would remain the same. 
HAving said that I have my KR2S gross at 1250# and limited the G load to 4.5 
G's. I well also admit that I have exceeded both of those limits but I don't 
think at the same time. WEll ya know - whats the use of having a race car if ya 
can't wring it out once in awhile.Sid- my nose wheel has close to 110# on it. 
It was more than I wanted but the weight and balance works and I have only set 
it on the tail a couple times when loaded to the max for a tripJoe Horton

-- Forwarded Message --
I wish we could come up with a new max weight  with the new wings.  Then locate 
the engine off the fire wall based on best CG location at max weight. 

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705



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KR> data base information

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey Guys,About 2 years ago the FAA was to start charging for the charts data 
base that everyone was updating their GPS units. All the GPS makers were going 
to pass this unknown amount of money on to us consumers. I finally did update 
mine a week ago and they did not chatge me. What ever happened to this 
FAAproposed policy???Joe Horton


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KR> Fw: Re: Ram air fuel venting

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

LArry Bell wrote> The chatter on air
>locks was good too and I am going to try to get all my tubes straight.
>Larry Bell


Larry - don't just try to eliminate air locks in the fuel line. try to make it 
all slope up hill towards the tank so air that may ever get in for what ever 
reason rises naturally to the tank. I was able to do it even though it is very 
slight and depending on wether it is a tail dragger or nose dragger. It is 
easier for a nose wheel because it is always close to flying attitude. (yes 
this is assuming that it is gravity feed from a header tank)Joe horton

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KR> Ram air fuel venting

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Oscar,Your math is just about spot on as I see .9 to 1.2 lbs depending on the 
actual fuel level in the tank in cruise flight.Joe

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KR> Fw: Ram air fuel venting

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

CraigAll 3 of my tanks are ram air vnted. The header tank has a vent out the 
side of the fusealage and the wing tanks are out the bottoms of the wings with 
flared ends a piece of screen  and then faired inn under the wing. The header 
vent is just out the side and faced foward and flared. no protection no 
fairing. I have no data to compare as it was built like this from the get go 
but I do know that my fuel pressure from the header tank (gravity feed) has 
never been below 8/10 of a pound even though that matamaticaly that should be 
impossiable given the height of the tank at low fuel level above the pressure 
sensor. This was just something that I had done when I was building my tanks 
and just thought it made sence. I haven't looked at the article that you 
referenced yet but I will just to see what someone else says.Joe Horton

-- Forwarded Message --
From: Craig Williams 
To: KRNet 
Subject: KR> Ram air fuel venting
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 11:12:47 -0700 (PDT)

Has anyone used RAM air to vent thier tanks?

Funny how things pop up. I asked the question here a few days ago about 
having two fuel pickups and then came upon this article. It addresses 
an issue with RH tanks in the PA22's but I think it has relevance to our 
KR's. I actually had an elaborate venting scheme for my 4 fuel tanks 
but after reading this I am inclined to go the RAM air route, at leat on my 
mains. Should make the fuel pumps job easier too. 


Here is the article that explains:


kr2seafury.com/resources/Pages+from+SWPN-April-May-June-2014.pdf

Craig
www.kr2seafury.com
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KR> Fw: Re: ultimate flap mount

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Space hardware or not he probably doesn't have a KR to mount it to since his 
burned to the ground on some pervious April fols day

-- Forwarded Message --
From: Phillip Hill 
To: KRnet krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: Re: KR> ultimate flap mount
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 06:41:41 -0500

Looks to me like the bottom front/back horizontal frame member of an
communications/server rack.  Yup, that's a hunk of metal.



On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 6:35 AM, Mark Jones  wrote:

> "Although it's a quarter inch thick and weighs 7.4 pounds"
>
> Now that is a cool piece of work. BUT, I am amazed as much of a stickler
> you are about weight that you are willing to add that extra weight to your
> KR when it can be done under a pound. Put the space hardware on your mantle
> made into a plaque.
>
>
>
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Stevens Point, WI
> E-mail: flykr2s at charter.net
> Web: www.flykr2s.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
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KR> Service ceiling

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey,Sorry about the way my notes come through as run on sentences. The provider 
scrambles it for some reason, not the way I type or send them. I'm changing 
providers in the next week or so - that should stop it.Joe Horton


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KR> Service ceiling

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Phil Hill wrote:

> I'd like to know what the typical service ceiling is for a normally
> aspirated KR2. Anyone want to share? Phil,I have a 3100 corvair KR2s and have 
> been to 17,999 ft. I stll had a climb rate in excess of the 100' per minute 
> climb rate. I think it was still close to 200 ft per min but do not remember 
> for sure. The real problem that I found was that the airplane its self was a 
> real handful above 16K. Im sure the stall speed was substantially different 
> and the plane hunted for stability the entire time. Straight and level was 
> just not in my capabilities as a pilot (some may say that when I fly at a 
> 1000 ft too) I think that all 3 control surfaces are to small for any kind of 
> continous operation above the 16K. I do have a lot of hours logged between 
> 13K and 16K and never had any control issues at those times. As a side note 
> it is really cool desending from those kinds of altitudes. on a clear day I 
> start decents from over a hundred miles away to end up at patteren altitude 
> at home base.Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa.

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KR> Fw: Re: WING SKIN

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey Guys, I could be all wet here but I would think that there is a huge why 
not. A major part of the wings ridgedness and overall strength is from bonding 
the fiberglass cloth to the wing spars and forming a true composit structure. I 
do not see how you would acheive this with a aluminum skin. I do see the chance 
that it would work with plywood skin bonded to the ribs and spars.Joe Horton, 
Coopersburg, PA

Bob,

Sure, why not? Form your ribs, slide them onto the spars and rivet the 
skins onto the ribs.

Ron




From: Robert Boyd 
To: KRnet  
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: KR> WING SKIN


Bill I look forward to hearing replies. I am considering the weight
difference of possibly using aluminum for ribs and skins? Couldn't someone
make one piece ribs that would slide onto the spars then rivet sheet skins
onto them?
Bob Frazeysburg Ohio




On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:03 AM, ol' weirdo  wrote:

> From a fringer.
>
> Has anyone skinned the wing of his KR with aluminum sheet glued to the foam
> the way titan build their wings?
>
> Bill Weir
> ___
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KR> Fw: first flight

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

www some! Great looking plane. 
I like the looks of the weather too
Joe Horton-- Forwarded Message --
From: robert gill 
To: "krnet at list.krnet.org" 
Subject: KR> first flight
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:10:50 +1100

KR 19-8322 here in Aus. finally flew her first flight today, (and I am still 
buzzing) only for one circuit tho as there was a high EGT alarm but bar graphs 
were in the green, so it was landed on caution , Test pilot said it flew well 
just slightly nose heavy, just a few minor things to fix up now then on with 
the rest of the test fight hours.here a video of the first 
flight.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA1rSoiwS2I 
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KR> Fw: Re: KRnet Digest, Vol 1, Issue 196

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Doran,   I'm going to say no. Mark L and I have a couple of the 2 closest built 
KR2s'  and we flew each others planes withinn the first year of their 
operations. 2 of the significant differences of our planes is that he clipped 
the wings and I extended them and he built the full volume tail feathers with 
airfoil shape and mine are stock to plans. Mark is welcome to verify or correct 
me but I just did not see or feel any real difference in the pitch of our 
respective planes. His clipped wings may have made some of the speed difference 
and the tail feathers are also probably more efficient. The wing incidence and 
the tail incidence are real players in the game though.Just my thoughtsJoe 
Horton

-- Forwarded Message --
From: Doran Jaffas kr2owner at gmail.com

Do the wing extensions add significantly to the pitch sensitivity?
On Oct 8, 2013 12:04 PM,  wrote:



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KR> Fw: spar extensions on KR2s wings

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Joe,A number of years ago a very good friend of mine called the extensions 
"hooky". But after getting over it I still wanted the extensions for the better 
climb and glide beifits that should come from the extended tips. I did modify 
the building method a bit to make them less hooky.First I glued a piece of foam 
to the end of the outter spar and sanded it to the same surface as the spar 
face. Then layed up 2 layers of bid carbon fiber. Flip the spar over and sand 
the other side the same way and again layup the 2 layers of bid carbon fiber. I 
lapped the carbon fiber about 6" on to the sapr face on each side. Also over 
sized the layup in each of the other direction to cut and sand to size and 
shape with the wing shapping. after the wing was shapped and ready for the 
large lay ups to cover the wings and the carbon spar extensions were also 
shaped I then cut a v groove into the foam on the back edge of each face of the 
carbon fiber (4 places about a 1/4" each). I mixed up a flox mix and filled the 
grooves to the final surface and shaped to prep for final covering. This should 
make the entire wing tip a composite structure. Hope this is clear and really 
not a whole lot of work fo the results.Good luckJoe Horton Coopersburg, Pa
-- Forwarded Message --
From: "cruzj12 at frontiernet.net" 
To: "krnet at list.krnet.org" 
Subject: KR> spar extensions on KR2s wings
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 13:51:30 -0700 (PDT)

Has everyone building the 2s wings built the 12"extensions to plans or is there 
another method to getequal or better results? Thanks,...

 Joe Cruz 

 Spencer,NY
KR2S
N6102L
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KR> Fw: Re: [CorvAircraft] ethanol-free fuel link

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hey Ron,I also use the MMO in about the same proportions and in a 200 hour 
test period of using it for a year and not using for a year I had a good 70% 
less lead build up on the heads. As many know I lean aggressively. I do not 
know what the Decalin is and what the supposed benefit is. Could you tell us 
more?Joe Horton,CoopersburgPS- I heard my X is poking around the internet to 
get a value of N357CJ- If anyone hears from her you can let her know that it 
will be chipped and mulched to the front yard before she sees a penny from my 
plane. (hey it's almost Friday)
-- Forwarded Message --

I agree with that logic.  I also use 4oz of Marvel Mystery Oil and 1/2oz of 
Decalin per 10 gallons of 100LL.  Keeps the build up to a minimum and all 
products are easy to get.


Ron Lendon
Detroit, MI
http://mykitlog.com/rlendon
N601LT




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KR> certificates

[joe.kr2s.builder at juno.com]

Hi Guys,I received my new aircraft registration certificate the other day and 
promtly put in the plane. This got me thinking that we are now at the end of 
the cycle to re- register all aircraft in the country. This fact along with a 
recent AOPA email handout type of document titled "What to do if stopped by law 
enforcement" Got me to wondering if ramp checks are about to be increased 
dramaticly to ensure compliance. Maybe I have become part of the untrusting 
public but better safe than sorry. Make sure your documents are up to date and 
in the plane or your posession. As I understand it they are Pilot cert., photo 
I.D., Medical cert., aircraft registration, log book presented upon written 
request.Doom sayer,Joe HortonCoopersburg, Pa.

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