KR> "bad day" flight- OFF TOPIC
Heh; the main window of my office, where I'm sitting right now, looks out at the approach path to Lackland AFB and I watch Texans, Talons, Galaxies and Starlifters all day, every day. I've seen the Thunderbirds, Air Force One, and all manner of other military and civilian hardware out my window. Hercs and KC-135s and Tweets, Mentors, F-16s, T-44s and more. Even had a B-17 and B-24 fly in one time. So, needless to say, I spend much of my day looking up ;o) I grew up less than a mile off the end of the parallel main runways at Laredo AFB during the cold war era and lived across the highway from Bergstrom AFB during the Vietnam era so I've always had things flying overhead, all hours of the day and night. We had a flight of four Hercs come in last week and it was awesome to watch their flight in, break, and land. And in case you like Hercs as much as I do, you may want to look at the videos of the carrier landings that were made off the deck of the Forrestal in a Herc. No arrestor cables for landings, no catapult for takeoffs. That is one incredible airplane. http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c130_forrestal.asp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sa3OGnFGlAOscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
KR> "bad day" flight
Hmm. I've only had one engine failure in the last 33 years of flight. I was cranking along at night in normal cruise about 10 miles out from the airport when a sleeve slid out of a cylinder into the crankshaft, which firmly drove it back into the cylinder taking the crown of the piston along with it. From there on very bad sounds and smells emanated from the engine as it shed parts and dropped from 6 to 5 to 4 to 3 cylinders. However, the remaining three cylinders on the opposite side of the engine provided enough power to extend the glide just enough to make the airport. The only engine control failure I've had happen in that time was a carb heat control that hung in my KR last fall due to a crease worn into the carb heat control arm by having the cable vibrating against it. Jeff Scott Los Alamos, NM N1213W -- John C Edwards wrote: Mark , I am constantly learning or remembering lessons learned by reading your posts. In this case , I am reminded of something I learned long ago, but had forgotten90% of all engine problems or failures occur during the first or a subsequent power reduction. My own uneventfull engine failures over the 30yrs of my flying confirm those statistics. Thank You for the reminder! John Edwards at mykitlog.com/kapowsin Click for air conditioner info, reduce energy costs, affordable prices. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/PnY6rw1sp2zfa1cRh7DvRtEBtnkxbCI3D15i7oVH8JQf5RWQGMVW4/
KR> "bad day" flight
Mark , I am constantly learning or remembering lessons learned by reading your posts. In this case , I am reminded of something I learned long ago, but had forgotten90% of all engine problems or failures occur during the first or a subsequent power reduction. My own uneventfull engine failures over the 30yrs of my flying confirm those statistics. Thank You for the reminder! John Edwards at mykitlog.com/kapowsin Mark Langford wrote: > > It occured to me afterwards that in the interest of preserving my own butt, > I never touched the throttle or mixture once I got to the altitude I was > planning on flying at...about 2000'. I did a lot of turns and whipping back > and forth, but didn't mess with those knobs on the panel. If I don't pull > or push on those cables, they're not going to come loose and leave me in a > compromising position. > > Mark Langford > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > website at http://www.N56ML.com > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > >
KR> "bad day" flight
> Tomorrow my buddies at work will say "betcha didn't get much > flying in THIS weekend!", but they'll be wrong. I flew both > Saturday and today. It was windy yesterday, but a good day to > practice crosswind landings. >Mark Langford +++ I think I just identified a need at the next Gathering. Therapist and intervention sessions !!! :-) :-) I just got my first "KR fix" last week after 7 weeks on the ground. I passed my bi-annual and then took the KR for a ride. Even after 340 hours in the KR, I'm still amazed at how much more fun the KR is to fly than a C-172. Larry Flesner
KR> "bad day" flight
Darren Crompton wrote: >> It occured to me later that several hundred kids (who are as airplane crazy >> as I am) probably rushed out to see what kind of plane was flying over that >> fast, only to see it quickly disappear into the distance. >> > > > > I am no kid and I still do this. We have just had three F-18 Super Hornets > do some low passes along the nearby beach as part of today's Australia Day > celebrations. I live 6 miles south of the third busiest airport in > Australia, Moorabbin, YMMB. I am constantly peering skywards at aircraft > heading out or returning home. It is a great motivator. > > Cheers > I tend to do this mostly when i here that distinct whine on the C5's engines. That behemoth is STILL impressive to this day. -- Glenn Martin KR2 N1333A Biloxi, MS
KR> "bad day" flight
- Mark Langford wrote: Tomorrow my buddies at work will say "betcha didn't get much flying in THIS weekend!", but they'll be wrong. Mark Let your buddies at work know that a bad day of flying is better than a good day at work. I also have to go outside to see what is taking off, landing or flying over. Good thing its a private airpark with few takeoff and landings or I never would get any work done. Jack Cooper - Mark Langford wrote: Tomorrow my buddies at work will say "betcha didn't get much flying in THIS weekend!", but they'll be wrong. > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Jack Cooper Mosheim TN
KR> "bad day" flight
> > It occured to me later that several hundred kids (who are as airplane crazy > as I am) probably rushed out to see what kind of plane was flying over that > fast, only to see it quickly disappear into the distance. I am no kid and I still do this. We have just had three F-18 Super Hornets do some low passes along the nearby beach as part of today's Australia Day celebrations. I live 6 miles south of the third busiest airport in Australia, Moorabbin, YMMB. I am constantly peering skywards at aircraft heading out or returning home. It is a great motivator. Cheers -- Darren Crompton AUSTRALIA My web site: www.kr-2s.com
KR> "bad day" flight
Today was one of those days when most folks would think you couldn't fly a small plane. Tomorrow my buddies at work will say "betcha didn't get much flying in THIS weekend!", but they'll be wrong. I flew both Saturday and today. It was windy yesterday, but a good day to practice crosswind landings. Today it was calm but overcast at two different levels...no sun, but I still got an hour and a half in, with about 6 touch 'n' goes at my home airport. It was a great day to fly low and leisurely. Most of today's flight was underneath HSV's wedding cake, in what passes for congested areas around here. It occured to me afterwards that in the interest of preserving my own butt, I never touched the throttle or mixture once I got to the altitude I was planning on flying at...about 2000'. I did a lot of turns and whipping back and forth, but didn't mess with those knobs on the panel. If I don't pull or push on those cables, they're not going to come loose and leave me in a compromising position. Still, I was doing 150-160 mph over a whole bunch of houses. It occured to me later that several hundred kids (who are as airplane crazy as I am) probably rushed out to see what kind of plane was flying over that fast, only to see it quickly disappear into the distance... Mark Langford N56ML "at" hiwaay.net website at http://www.N56ML.com
KR> Bad day at the airport
>From someone with a 1835 and a wood prop, that had a prop and front of crank leave the plane at 6500 ft in Mo. tear down the engine and replace the crank. The do not cost that much. --- "Larry H." wrote: > The KR that a friend of mine hard bellied in had a > Revmaster ingine in it. The engine had quit from > vaporlock we thought, but then restarted just before > impact and running at full throttle. The propeller > was sheared off right on each side of the center, > both sides of the prop that is. I checked for run > out, it was perfect, called Joe at Revmaster he said > it was probably OK. I later sold the plane and told > the new buyer, he decided to disassemble the engine > and send the crank to Revmaster. It was checked and > given an OK and reinstalled. > IF you are using a metal prop, I would say always > tear down, if you are using a wooden prop, I guess > it would just have to be your best judgment. There > have been cases of prop strikes, tear down, OK given > and then a few hours of flight later the crank > breaks someplace, so who knows for sure? > If you are not using a forged crank, then I would > definitely replace the crank ! > > Just my opinion of course. > Larry H. > > > KRnetters > > 2nd. Slight accident in my KR. While taxing to 36 > late this evening the right wing tip inpacted a > truck parked on the taxiway. The truck had no > flashing lights, was grey in color and was in a > blind spot (tail dragger you know). While > zig-zagging the person who owned the truck was on > the opposite side of the taxiway and was a > distraction. The KR spun around and impacted the > trucks left front fender. Damage was done to the > wing tip, the position lights and strobe were torn > away and the engine sustained a sudden prop > stoppage. Damage was done to the prop tip, and the > spinner hub. The impact was great enough to cave in > the front right fender of the truck. His insurance > will cover the damage. > Question? Should the engine be torn down, inspected > and rebuilt. Should the engine be replaced as I may > not be mentally satisified without a new engine. For > you people who have experience with this, what > should I do? > I feel that I should remove the wing and inspect the > attachment fittings. The damage was done to the very > tip with torn fiberglass and tip separation (Dan > Deihl wing skins) It is fixable. > Bill Page > boliverp...@bellsouth.net > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
KR> Bad day at the airport
KRnetters Today was a bad day at the Starkville, MS airport. 1st, a experimental R & D Sparrow sailplane from the Raspet Flight Research Lab at Mississippi State University was in a maneuver test today at 6,000 feet when it disintergrated. Both wings tore from the fuselage along with hunks of the fuselage. The pilot fired the BRS. After chute deployment he exited the craft with his personal chute. After a free-fall of several hundered feet he pulled the rip-cord only to have a tangled chute. After about 2,000 ft. fall his chute became untangled and he landed near the hospital. He walked out of the woods and caught a ride back to the airport. The fuselage landed in the back yard of a home in a residential district. Wings and other parts landed in other yards. No one was injured. Caused a lot of excitment in Starkville as many residents observed the entire happening. 2nd. Slight accident in my KR. While taxing to 36 late this evening the right wing tip inpacted a truck parked on the taxiway. The truck had no flashing lights, was grey in color and was in a blind spot (tail dragger you know). While zig-zagging the person who owned the truck was on the opposite side of the taxiway and was a distraction. The KR spun around and impacted the trucks left front fender. Damage was done to the wing tip, the position lights and strobe were torn away and the engine sustained a sudden prop stoppage. Damage was done to the prop tip, and the spinner hub. The impact was great enough to cave in the front right fender of the truck. His insurance will cover the damage. Question? Should the engine be torn down, inspected and rebuilt. Should the engine be replaced as I may not be mentally satisified without a new engine. For you people who have experience with this, what should I do? I feel that I should remove the wing and inspect the attachment fittings. The damage was done to the very tip with torn fiberglass and tip separation (Dan Deihl wing skins) It is fixable. Bill Page boliverp...@bellsouth.net
KR> Bad day at the airport
Hi Bill, Sorry to hear about your damage. What engine do you have and what RPM were you doing? In general the prop flange should be checked for run out and the crank should be magna-fluxed. Re the wing. I would inspect the attachment fittings looking for any movement type hair line cracks, I snapped 14in off the end of my wing and can find no hair line cracks at WAF's. The wing is repairable, you may need to cut a hole (or several holes) in the bottom of the wing to inspect the wing skin to spar joint to ensure there is no separation. It is all reparable, Just look at my accident and I'm repairning it, though very slowly. Photo's are at the end http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/Doco/INCIDENT-RAAus.doc Regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia k...@bigpond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of countryhomeprint Sent: Thursday, 19 October 2006 11:19 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Bad day at the airport KRnetters Today was a bad day at the Starkville, MS airport. 1st, a experimental R & D Sparrow sailplane from the Raspet Flight Research Lab at Mississippi State University was in a maneuver test today at 6,000 feet when it disintergrated. Both wings tore from the fuselage along with hunks of the fuselage. The pilot fired the BRS. After chute deployment he exited the craft with his personal chute. After a free-fall of several hundered feet he pulled the rip-cord only to have a tangled chute. After about 2,000 ft. fall his chute became untangled and he landed near the hospital. He walked out of the woods and caught a ride back to the airport. The fuselage landed in the back yard of a home in a residential district. Wings and other parts landed in other yards. No one was injured. Caused a lot of excitment in Starkville as many residents observed the entire happening. 2nd. Slight accident in my KR. While taxing to 36 late this evening the right wing tip inpacted a truck parked on the taxiway. The truck had no flashing lights, was grey in color and was in a blind spot (tail dragger you know). While zig-zagging the person who owned the truck was on the opposite side of the taxiway and was a distraction. The KR spun around and impacted the trucks left front fender. Damage was done to the wing tip, the position lights and strobe were torn away and the engine sustained a sudden prop stoppage. Damage was done to the prop tip, and the spinner hub. The impact was great enough to cave in the front right fender of the truck. His insurance will cover the damage. Question? Should the engine be torn down, inspected and rebuilt. Should the engine be replaced as I may not be mentally satisified without a new engine. For you people who have experience with this, what should I do? I feel that I should remove the wing and inspect the attachment fittings. The damage was done to the very tip with torn fiberglass and tip separation (Dan Deihl wing skins) It is fixable. Bill Page boliverp...@bellsouth.net
KR> Bad day at the airport
Wow Bill that was some kind of day! But it was good to hear that you, and the sailplane Pilot are OK. As for the KR don't feel bad I had a hanger fall down on mine and in spite of the damage I know see will fly again. Now for my views on the engine. As a fellow pilot and, an A&P I think you should get a new engine and let the Insurance pay for it. Reasons for this is : 1 To try to fly with the engine as it is you are asking for possible engine failure in flight. 2 His Insurance will pay for it. 3 With a new engine means more play time in the air. Now it does sound like she will be down for some time. So if a new engine is not easily obtained, Tare the old engine down, and get the crank inspected. Remember, Better safe than sorry. Be safe and keep looking up Ferris Mcgee
KR> Bad day at the airport
The KR that a friend of mine hard bellied in had a Revmaster ingine in it. The engine had quit from vaporlock we thought, but then restarted just before impact and running at full throttle. The propeller was sheared off right on each side of the center, both sides of the prop that is. I checked for run out, it was perfect, called Joe at Revmaster he said it was probably OK. I later sold the plane and told the new buyer, he decided to disassemble the engine and send the crank to Revmaster. It was checked and given an OK and reinstalled. IF you are using a metal prop, I would say always tear down, if you are using a wooden prop, I guess it would just have to be your best judgment. There have been cases of prop strikes, tear down, OK given and then a few hours of flight later the crank breaks someplace, so who knows for sure? If you are not using a forged crank, then I would definitely replace the crank ! Just my opinion of course. Larry H. KRnetters 2nd. Slight accident in my KR. While taxing to 36 late this evening the right wing tip inpacted a truck parked on the taxiway. The truck had no flashing lights, was grey in color and was in a blind spot (tail dragger you know). While zig-zagging the person who owned the truck was on the opposite side of the taxiway and was a distraction. The KR spun around and impacted the trucks left front fender. Damage was done to the wing tip, the position lights and strobe were torn away and the engine sustained a sudden prop stoppage. Damage was done to the prop tip, and the spinner hub. The impact was great enough to cave in the front right fender of the truck. His insurance will cover the damage. Question? Should the engine be torn down, inspected and rebuilt. Should the engine be replaced as I may not be mentally satisified without a new engine. For you people who have experience with this, what should I do? I feel that I should remove the wing and inspect the attachment fittings. The damage was done to the very tip with torn fiberglass and tip separation (Dan Deihl wing skins) It is fixable. Bill Page boliverp...@bellsouth.net
KR> Bad day at the airport
If his insurance is paying I would request a total engine rebuild perhaps by William Wynne or Steve Bennet, or some other reputiable source. If insurance does not pay then at least tear down and inspect with a magnaflux of crank. As for the wings, Remove the wing and inspect the WAF bolts. Do the bolts show any signs of damage? Does the wing show any signs of distortion except at the point of contact? Can you see the spar through the damaged area? If so inspect for damage to the spar and for seperation of the skin from the spar. I would bet that there is no damage to the wing other than broken skin but then I haven't seen the amount of damage either. I'm using the wings from Gene Byrds crashed KR and they were extensively damaged and the rear spar WAF bolt was sheared but the wing tanks still contained fuel so I have rebuilt the wings. They have not flown yet so use your best judgement in how far you go with the inspection. Jack Cooper > [Original Message] > From: countryhomeprint > To: KRnet > Date: 10/18/2006 9:19:21 PM > Subject: KR> Bad day at the airport > > KRnetters > > Today was a bad day at the Starkville, MS airport. 1st, a experimental R & D Sparrow sailplane from the Raspet Flight Research Lab at Mississippi State University was in a maneuver test today at 6,000 feet when it disintergrated. Both wings tore from the fuselage along with hunks of the fuselage. The pilot fired the BRS. After chute deployment he exited the craft with his personal chute. After a free-fall of several hundered feet he pulled the rip-cord only to have a tangled chute. After about 2,000 ft. fall his chute became untangled and he landed near the hospital. He walked out of the woods and caught a ride back to the airport. The fuselage landed in the back yard of a home in a residential district. Wings and other parts landed in other yards. No one was injured. Caused a lot of excitment in Starkville as many residents observed the entire happening. > > 2nd. Slight accident in my KR. While taxing to 36 late this evening the right wing tip inpacted a truck parked on the taxiway. The truck had no flashing lights, was grey in color and was in a blind spot (tail dragger you know). While zig-zagging the person who owned the truck was on the opposite side of the taxiway and was a distraction. The KR spun around and impacted the trucks left front fender. Damage was done to the wing tip, the position lights and strobe were torn away and the engine sustained a sudden prop stoppage. Damage was done to the prop tip, and the spinner hub. The impact was great enough to cave in the front right fender of the truck. His insurance will cover the damage. > Question? Should the engine be torn down, inspected and rebuilt. Should the engine be replaced as I may not be mentally satisified without a new engine. For you people who have experience with this, what should I do? > I feel that I should remove the wing and inspect the attachment fittings. The damage was done to the very tip with torn fiberglass and tip separation (Dan Deihl wing skins) It is fixable. > Bill Page > boliverp...@bellsouth.net > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day of flying
Today was one of those days that started O.K. and went from bad to worse. I flew my Clipper over to the airport where our glider club is so I could do some soaring. I went about 5 miles west of the airport and was getting some good lift for about an hour when a small shower started just to the north of the airport moving south. No big deal. It was a small shower and I waited for it to pass by the airport. Another one developed to the North and they kept coming in a long line getting worse and spitting out lighning. I moved further away to the west and was fine getting good lift up to cloud base at 7,200', but the storms kept coming for the next two hours. When it started to look like a break I would head towards the airport and would get the crap beat out of me by the turbulance and turn back. I called the airport and they said they had major weather and the radar was just getting worse. When I started seeing lightning to the north and south of me instead of just to the east I put in full dive breaks from 7,000' and landed at a Navy base. They only use this base for carrier qualifications about once a month so there was just one MP there to meet me. We called the air ops branch and were told that we need to fill out a bunch of paperwork to land the towplane there to get the glider out and the C.O. won't be in until Tuesday to approve it. Going from bad to worse again I found out that my Clipper got free and blew into the woods and was in 3' of water. We pulled it out and it is less two wing tips, one aileron, one elevator half, and has a crushed rear fusalage stringer. Probably has $6-8K in damage and will be down for months. The same storm broke the tiedown ring off of a 172 and it is upside down on the Citabria parked next to it and it ripped half of the roof off of the glider club trailer. What a day. Time to fill out some ASRS forms to keep me out of trouble in case the FAA asks why I had to land at a Navy base and review the Clipper insurance policy. Then maybe a few beers. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com
KR> Bad day of flying
Brian: Sounds like sring west of the Rockies! Wher are you located? We were promised severe weathe here Friday night and it never happend but set temp records into the mid 90's with 70 deg Dew Pts the last 2 days. I know there were some strong storms. on a line from the UP of Mich to Detroit and (6) people killed by lightning over the last few days. Don Brian Kraut wrote: > Today was one of those days that started O.K. and went from bad to worse. I > flew my Clipper over to the airport where our glider club is so I could do > some soaring. I went about 5 miles west of the airport and was getting some > good lift for about an hour when a small shower started just to the north of > the airport moving south. No big deal. It was a small shower and I waited > for it to pass by the airport. Another one developed to the North and they > kept coming in a long line getting worse and spitting out lighning. I moved > further away to the west and was fine getting good lift up to cloud base at > 7,200', but the storms kept coming for the next two hours. When it started > to look like a break I would head towards the airport and would get the crap > beat out of me by the turbulance and turn back. I called the airport and > they said they had major weather and the radar was just getting worse. When > I started seeing lightning to the north and south of me instead of just to > the east I put in full dive breaks from 7,000' and landed at a Navy base. > They only use this base for carrier qualifications about once a month so > there was just one MP there to meet me. We called the air ops branch and > were told that we need to fill out a bunch of paperwork to land the towplane > there to get the glider out and the C.O. won't be in until Tuesday to > approve it. > > Going from bad to worse again I found out that my Clipper got free and blew > into the woods and was in 3' of water. We pulled it out and it is less two > wing tips, one aileron, one elevator half, and has a crushed rear fusalage > stringer. Probably has $6-8K in damage and will be down for months. The > same storm broke the tiedown ring off of a 172 and it is upside down on the > Citabria parked next to it and it ripped half of the roof off of the glider > club trailer. What a day. Time to fill out some ASRS forms to keep me out > of trouble in case the FAA asks why I had to land at a Navy base and review > the Clipper insurance policy. Then maybe a few beers. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day of flying
I am in Jacksonville. We are on the east side of what they call Thunderstorm Alley. There is a line going southwest of here accross Florida that gets more thunderstorms in the summer than anywhere. That is why I just bought a Garmin 396, but I don't have a mount for it yet in the glider. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of D F Lively Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 10:34 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Bad day of flying Brian: Sounds like sring west of the Rockies! Wher are you located? We were promised severe weathe here Friday night and it never happend but set temp records into the mid 90's with 70 deg Dew Pts the last 2 days. I know there were some strong storms. on a line from the UP of Mich to Detroit and (6) people killed by lightning over the last few days. Don Brian Kraut wrote: > Today was one of those days that started O.K. and went from bad to worse. I > flew my Clipper over to the airport where our glider club is so I could do > some soaring. I went about 5 miles west of the airport and was getting some > good lift for about an hour when a small shower started just to the north of > the airport moving south. No big deal. It was a small shower and I waited > for it to pass by the airport. Another one developed to the North and they > kept coming in a long line getting worse and spitting out lighning. I moved > further away to the west and was fine getting good lift up to cloud base at > 7,200', but the storms kept coming for the next two hours. When it started > to look like a break I would head towards the airport and would get the crap > beat out of me by the turbulance and turn back. I called the airport and > they said they had major weather and the radar was just getting worse. When > I started seeing lightning to the north and south of me instead of just to > the east I put in full dive breaks from 7,000' and landed at a Navy base. > They only use this base for carrier qualifications about once a month so > there was just one MP there to meet me. We called the air ops branch and > were told that we need to fill out a bunch of paperwork to land the towplane > there to get the glider out and the C.O. won't be in until Tuesday to > approve it. > > Going from bad to worse again I found out that my Clipper got free and blew > into the woods and was in 3' of water. We pulled it out and it is less two > wing tips, one aileron, one elevator half, and has a crushed rear fusalage > stringer. Probably has $6-8K in damage and will be down for months. The > same storm broke the tiedown ring off of a 172 and it is upside down on the > Citabria parked next to it and it ripped half of the roof off of the glider > club trailer. What a day. Time to fill out some ASRS forms to keep me out > of trouble in case the FAA asks why I had to land at a Navy base and review > the Clipper insurance policy. Then maybe a few beers. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
Réf. : KR> Bad day
Very sorry to hear that, Dan. My brand new 2.4 liter VW "froze", as you say, without any kind of warning, after a little bit more than one hour run-in. We found the cause to be a faulty oil valve. As I understand it, the VWs have an oil valve whose job is to bypass the oil cooler when the engine is cold. If that valve does not work, then you get insufficient lubrication of the thrust bearing, and you're done. (I think I got back in the air 3 or 4 days later, because the engine manufacturer was round the corner, and he felt very sorry for me, so he worked overnight to fix the problem.) My 2 cents worth. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Dan Heath" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem@mylist.net 01/01/2006 03:26 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 01/01/2006 03:35 Pour : cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> Bad day Well, there won't be any flying for Dan and Jerry anytime soon. We put the tail in a valley between the taxi way and the runway to get the tail low. Jerry was running it at about 3000 rpm, with less than a1/4 tank and it was running great. He started to pull back and the engine came to a very abrupt stop. It is frozen. There was no indication that anything was wrong. No smoke, no foul temp readings, no nothing. So now back to the shop with the engine. I don't like working on them. I can build them, but really don't trust myself with it and I don't know who will work on a VW for an airplane, that I would trust. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day
Thank you, and that information is certainly worth more than 2 cents. In fact, if it were worth only 2 cents, then why would you bother posting it. If this turns out to be the root cause of the problem, then maybe it will also explain why the oil temp would not come up until we taped over the oil cooler. And, maybe that would be an indication to others out there, seeing the same symptom. I will let you all know what the source of the seizure was, if it can be determined. I wish the manufacturer of this engine were that close by, so I could just ask him to take care of it for me as I am real tired of doing all this work with no FUN. I am ready for some FUN. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ---Original Message--- We found the cause to be a faulty oil valve. As I understand it, the VWs have an oil valve whose job is to bypass the oil cooler when the engine is cold. If that valve does not work, then you get insufficient lubrication of the thrust bearing, and you're done. My 2 cents worth.
Réf. : KR> Bad day
Good luck, Dan.
That valve I'm talking about is called the pressure relief valve. On the
Type4, it is mounted vertically, bottom up, next to the oil filter.
By the way, does it help if I send you an electronic copy of the engine
manual I have?
Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France
"Dan Heath"
Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem@mylist.net
03/01/2006 12:03
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 03/01/2006 12:03
Pour :
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : KR> Bad day
Thank you, and that information is certainly worth more than 2 cents. In
fact, if it were worth only 2 cents, then why would you bother posting it.
If this turns out to be the root cause of the problem, then maybe it will
also explain why the oil temp would not come up until we taped over the
oil
cooler. And, maybe that would be an indication to others out there, seeing
the same symptom.
I will let you all know what the source of the seizure was, if it can be
determined.
I wish the manufacturer of this engine were that close by, so I could just
ask him to take care of it for me as I am real tired of doing all this
work
with no FUN. I am ready for some FUN.
See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics
See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for
building
is OVER.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
---Original Message---
We found the cause to be a faulty oil valve. As I understand it, the VWs
have an oil valve
whose job is to bypass the oil cooler when the engine is cold. If that
valve does not work, then you get insufficient lubrication of the thrust
bearing, and you're done.
My 2 cents worth.
___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day
I don't think that the Type 1 has the cooler bypass valve, jut the oil pressure regulator which must be working if you were getting oil pressure. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 6:03 AM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KR> Bad day Thank you, and that information is certainly worth more than 2 cents. In fact, if it were worth only 2 cents, then why would you bother posting it. If this turns out to be the root cause of the problem, then maybe it will also explain why the oil temp would not come up until we taped over the oil cooler. And, maybe that would be an indication to others out there, seeing the same symptom. I will let you all know what the source of the seizure was, if it can be determined. I wish the manufacturer of this engine were that close by, so I could just ask him to take care of it for me as I am real tired of doing all this work with no FUN. I am ready for some FUN. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ---Original Message--- We found the cause to be a faulty oil valve. As I understand it, the VWs have an oil valve whose job is to bypass the oil cooler when the engine is cold. If that valve does not work, then you get insufficient lubrication of the thrust bearing, and you're done. My 2 cents worth. ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
Re: Réf. : KR> Bad day
By the way, does it help if I send you an electronic copy of the engine manual I have? Hi Serge, Can you send me a copy of the manual as well. Orma
KR> Bad day
Dan, I have been out of town off and on, but I have heard of some engine problems you have had. Here's hoping you are getting closer to having that "FUN". Hang in there. Ray - Original Message - From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:03 AM Subject: KR> Bad day > Thank you, and that information is certainly worth more than 2 cents. In > fact, if it were worth only 2 cents, then why would you bother posting it. > > If this turns out to be the root cause of the problem, then maybe it will > also explain why the oil temp would not come up until we taped over the > oil > cooler. And, maybe that would be an indication to others out there, seeing > the same symptom. > > I will let you all know what the source of the seizure was, if it can be > determined. > > I wish the manufacturer of this engine were that close by, so I could just > ask him to take care of it for me as I am real tired of doing all this > work > with no FUN. I am ready for some FUN. > > > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building > is OVER. > > Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC > > ---Original Message--- > > We found the cause to be a faulty oil valve. As I understand it, the VWs > have an oil valve > > whose job is to bypass the oil cooler when the engine is cold. If that > > valve does not work, then you get insufficient lubrication of the thrust > > bearing, and you're done. > > My 2 cents worth. > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day
Starved oil pickup ?? Virg On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:48:58 -0500 mfreem...@indy.rr.com writes: > Well I am qualified but I'm retired now let me know what you find, by > > the way Steve Bennett at Great Plains Aircraft Co. would be a great > > choice if you want an expert to do it. > > - Original Message - > From: Dan Heath > Date: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:26 pm > Subject: KR> Bad day > > > Well, there won't be any flying for Dan and Jerry anytime soon. > > We put the > > tail in a valley between the taxi way and the runway to get the > > tail low. > > Jerry was running it at about 3000 rpm, with less than a1/4 tank > > and it was > > running great. He started to pull back and the engine came to a > > very abrupt > > stop. It is frozen. There was no indication that anything was > > wrong. No > > smoke, no foul temp readings, no nothing. So now back to the shop > > > with the > > engine. I don't like working on them. I can build them, but > > really don't > > trust myself with it and I don't know who will work on a VW for an > > > airplane,that I would trust. > > > > > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time > > for building > > is OVER. > > Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC > > ___ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > krnet-le...@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl
KR> Bad day
Doubt it! See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ---Original Message--- From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: 01/03/06 19:12:05 To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR> Bad day Starved oil pickup ?? Virg On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:48:58 -0500 mfreem...@indy.rr.com writes: > Well I am qualified but I'm retired now let me know what you find, by > > the way Steve Bennett at Great Plains Aircraft Co. would be a great > > choice if you want an expert to do it. > > - Original Message - > From: Dan Heath > Date: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:26 pm > Subject: KR> Bad day > > > Well, there won't be any flying for Dan and Jerry anytime soon. > > We put the > > tail in a valley between the taxi way and the runway to get the > > tail low. > > Jerry was running it at about 3000 rpm, with less than a1/4 tank > > and it was > > running great. He started to pull back and the engine came to a > > very abrupt > > stop. It is frozen. There was no indication that anything was > > wrong. No > > smoke, no foul temp readings, no nothing. So now back to the shop > > > with the > > engine. I don't like working on them. I can build them, but > > really don't > > trust myself with it and I don't know who will work on a VW for an > > > airplane,that I would trust. > > > > > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time > > for building > > is OVER. > > Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC > > ___ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > krnet-le...@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day
Sorry to hear that. I feel your pain. When I bought my first KR the engine ran fine, but I heard rumor of a previous prop strike and it didn't have the Force 1 hub anyway so I pulled the crank and magnafluxing found a big crack. After spending a few weeks and a bunch of money to have the nose bored for the hub and getting a new crank I was putting it back together and it locked up on the Force 1 bearing every time I tightened the case bolts. It was measuring egg shaped and I didn't know if it was bored wrong or what. Off the whole case went to Great Plains and it seems I somehow had the bearing cocked when I first installed it and the pin ruined the bearing so I needed a new one. Another few weeks and more money later I had the case halves together and on the plane while I installed the cylinders. Oops, with the new crank the compression is not correct and I need new cylinder shims, correct size not in stock so I had to order thicker ones and have them surface ground. Back together again. Oops, cylinder shimmed different now I need to order new adjustable length pushrods. I got everything done, adjusted the valves, installed the head covers and realized that the under cylinder baffels need to be put on before the heads go on. Off the heads came and start all over. Things happen. This will all just be a story you can tell others soon wen you are flying. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:27 PM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KR> Bad day Well, there won't be any flying for Dan and Jerry anytime soon. We put the tail in a valley between the taxi way and the runway to get the tail low. Jerry was running it at about 3000 rpm, with less than a1/4 tank and it was running great. He started to pull back and the engine came to a very abrupt stop. It is frozen. There was no indication that anything was wrong. No smoke, no foul temp readings, no nothing. So now back to the shop with the engine. I don't like working on them. I can build them, but really don't trust myself with it and I don't know who will work on a VW for an airplane, that I would trust. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day
Dan I would first pull all the plugs and double check that you hvae not somehow gotten hydra locked. The engine could run really good at high rpm, but then stumble and quit, while flooding to an extreme, and with just one cylinder with a decent quantity of fuel, or maybe oil, lock down the rest. You might be able to fix it in frame instead of having to remove the entire engine... Colin Rainey brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net
KR> Bad day
Also instead of just pulling off the engine at first I would pull the cylinder heads off on one side then the other and pull the cylinders back a little to make sure it is not just one cylinder frozen from a broken ring or something. You may just get lucky and find only one cylinder locked and not have to split the case. It is a whole lot easier taking the engine off without the cylinders and heads on anyway so start there. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Colin Rainey Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 2:05 PM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KR> Bad day Dan I would first pull all the plugs and double check that you hvae not somehow gotten hydra locked. The engine could run really good at high rpm, but then stumble and quit, while flooding to an extreme, and with just one cylinder with a decent quantity of fuel, or maybe oil, lock down the rest. You might be able to fix it in frame instead of having to remove the entire engine... Colin Rainey brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day
..that was one of the first things we did was to pull the plugs Didn't find anything there. Then we started pulling the baffling and I had to go to work Dan is going to consult with our local VW Guhru for some advice.if he will still work on an aircraft VW Dan has a personal relationship with him and he may do it. We both have a very high regard for his VW expertise. If we have to do it all on our own hook we will probably do as mentioned before pull the heads first and then the cylinders before pulling the engine.. Thanx for everyone's input!! Later, On 1/1/06, Brian Kraut wrote: > > Also instead of just pulling off the engine at first I would pull the > cylinder heads off on one side then the other and pull the cylinders back > a > little to make sure it is not just one cylinder frozen from a broken ring > or > something. You may just get lucky and find only one cylinder locked and > not > have to split the case. It is a whole lot easier taking the engine off > without the cylinders and heads on anyway so start there. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -Original Message- > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Colin Rainey > Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 2:05 PM > To: kr...@mylist.net > Subject: KR> Bad day > > > Dan > I would first pull all the plugs and double check that you hvae not > somehow > gotten hydra locked. The engine could run really good at high rpm, but > then > stumble and quit, while flooding to an extreme, and with just one cylinder > with a decent quantity of fuel, or maybe oil, lock down the rest. You > might > be able to fix it in frame instead of having to remove the entire > engine... > > > Colin Rainey > brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Jerry Mahurin - aka - KRJerry EAA# 0034283 Lugoff, SC 29078
KR> Bad day
Well, there won't be any flying for Dan and Jerry anytime soon. We put the tail in a valley between the taxi way and the runway to get the tail low. Jerry was running it at about 3000 rpm, with less than a1/4 tank and it was running great. He started to pull back and the engine came to a very abrupt stop. It is frozen. There was no indication that anything was wrong. No smoke, no foul temp readings, no nothing. So now back to the shop with the engine. I don't like working on them. I can build them, but really don't trust myself with it and I don't know who will work on a VW for an airplane, that I would trust. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
KR> Bad day
Well I am qualified but I'm retired now let me know what you find, by the way Steve Bennett at Great Plains Aircraft Co. would be a great choice if you want an expert to do it. - Original Message - From: Dan Heath List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:26 pm Subject: KR> Bad day > Well, there won't be any flying for Dan and Jerry anytime soon. > We put the > tail in a valley between the taxi way and the runway to get the > tail low. > Jerry was running it at about 3000 rpm, with less than a1/4 tank > and it was > running great. He started to pull back and the engine came to a > very abrupt > stop. It is frozen. There was no indication that anything was > wrong. No > smoke, no foul temp readings, no nothing. So now back to the shop > with the > engine. I don't like working on them. I can build them, but > really don't > trust myself with it and I don't know who will work on a VW for an > airplane,that I would trust. > > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time > for building > is OVER. > Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Bad day
Sorry to hear about this, I had hoped to hear about your first flight. Good luck on finding the cause. The only good thing about this is that it didn't happen in the air. Mike Turner Jackson, Missouri Swing the prop and light the fire, dance amoung the stars.N642MC - Original Message - From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 8:26 PM Subject: KR> Bad day > Well, there won't be any flying for Dan and Jerry anytime soon. We put > the > tail in a valley between the taxi way and the runway to get the tail low. > Jerry was running it at about 3000 rpm, with less than a1/4 tank and it > was > running great. He started to pull back and the engine came to a very > abrupt > stop. It is frozen. There was no indication that anything was wrong. No > smoke, no foul temp readings, no nothing. So now back to the shop with > the > engine. I don't like working on them. I can build them, but really don't > trust myself with it and I don't know who will work on a VW for an > airplane, > that I would trust. > > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building > is OVER. > Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Bad day
Dan and Jerry What bad luck, sorry to hear about the engine locking up. Just wanted to hear about the first flight but better it happen on the ground than in the air. Please let us know the teardown analysis. I think your recent visitor is an expert in VW engines, although I can't volenteer his services I would highly recommend him or Steve Bennet. Better luck next time. Jack Cooper -Original Message- >From: Dan Heath >Sent: Dec 31, 2005 8:26 PM >To: kr...@mylist.net >Subject: KR> Bad day > >Well, there won't be any flying for Dan and Jerry anytime soon. We put the >tail in a valley between the taxi way and the runway to get the tail low. >Jerry was running it at about 3000 rpm, with less than a1/4 tank and it was >running great. He started to pull back and the engine came to a very abrupt >stop. It is frozen. There was no indication that anything was wrong. No >smoke, no foul temp readings, no nothing. So now back to the shop with the >engine. I don't like working on them. I can build them, but really don't >trust myself with it and I don't know who will work on a VW for an airplane, >that I would trust. > > >See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering >There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building >is OVER. >Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC >___ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Bad day
Jack Cooper wrote: >>I think your recent visitor is an expert in VW engines, although I can't >>volenteer his services I would highly recommend him or Steve Bennett.<< I know a little something about 'em. If Dan will bring it to me, I'll help him tear it down. Or, better yet, I can come visit him next weekend (if the weather cooperates) and I'll help him tear it down. I know how to get there now. Jack Cooper has to bring the beer though... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
