KR> Tail Addition and fuselage lengths

[Sid Wood]

Joe,
My airplane is a standard plans KR-2 rigged as tri-gear with Diehl wing 
skins.
Distance from aft face of the firewall to the fwd face of the main spar is 
22-1/4 inches; from fwd face of the main spar to the base of the fwd side of 
the rudder post is 109 inches.
Wing span is 23-feet, 6-inches.  Horizontal stabilizer width with Diehl 
skins is 72 inches.  Engine is a Great Plains 2180 cc, 76 hp, with Sterba 
52X52 prop.

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA
--
Hey Joe,
Tried to send this info earlier but it failed.  Hope this one works.
Standard KR2S.  Will be using a 2700 Corvair engine (already test run at WW
Corvair college)
Dimensions from inside of firewall to front of spar 24 3/8"
from front of main spar to tail post seems to be 110"
total length of fuselage from outside of firewall to aft edge of rudder is
162"

Ray_pilot
New Orleans

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Roger via KRnet 
wrote:

> Joe
> My dimensions are 132.5 and 26.5. With the o235, I wish I didn't move the
> firewall fwd. after a redo with the engine mount, all is well.
> Roger Baalman
> Rbaalman at cox.net
>

> >
> > Hey guys,
> > just poking around again to see if I can get any more fuselage
> dimensions as requested in the post below. I only have about 12 right now
> and that does not get a very good data base going. It is a bit warmer now
> in most parts so take a tape measure with you to the hanger and do the 
> best
> you can even it is just to the closest inch.
> > Thanks,
> > Joe Horton
> >
> 

KR> Tail Addition and fuselage lengths

[Adam]

My dimensions are 116.5"  (9' 8.5") from L.E. Of fwd spar to lowest connection 
point of Aft Vert Spar. 
And from aft side of Firewall to L.E of Fwd spar is 24.25". (2' 1/2")

KR> Tail Addition and fuselage lengths

[Larry Flesner]

As you can see most every KR is different.  My KR is stock KR2 with 
fuselage extended 24 inches behind the forward spar.  My dimensions 
are: 154 3/4 inches from forward face of firewall to rear of vertical 
tail post, and 23 inches from rear face of firewall 1/4" ply to 
forward face of front spar.  Standard KR2 tail surfaces with the 
exception that I moved the horizontal stabilizer forward 2 inchs from 
plans location for smoother faring to the rudder.  That moved the 
forward vertical spar forward 2 inches also which slightly enlarged 
the vertical stabilizer area.  With that exception, all tail surfaces 
are built to plans.  I would like to enlarge my tail area as Jeff 
Scott did but I'm not willing to take it out of service long enough 
to make the changes.  I enjoy flying it too much the way it is.

Larry Flesner

KR> Tail Addition and fuselage lengths

[Jeff Scott]

As many of you know, I had the original KR-2 tail on my KR, then cut it off and 
built a significantly larger tail.?
?
For some background, the boat for my KR was constructed prior to the release of 
the -2S plans.? It was becoming common at that time to extend the fuselage, so 
mine has a 14" extension (one bay) added to the aft fuselage as compared to a 
stock KR-2.? Otherwise, the fuselage matches the KR-2 plans.? I flew the plane 
for 500 hrs with the small 6' tail plane built according to the original 
plans.? Then I cut the tail off and used the plans provided by Mark for the 
0009 tail airfoil, and built it to an 8' span.? Invariably when I talk about 
how much of an improvement this made to the handling, I apparently must be 
calling others babies ugly, so end up getting a lot of disparaging remarks 
about my piloting skills or lack there of.? Of course those that seem to think 
this is a poor modification have never flown a KR with an 8' span tail.? My 
description is that it is still just as sporty, and still quite light to the 
touch, but it has significantly better stability in pitch in that a large 
individual my size can reposition in the plane without creating an aerobatic 
experience.? The plane flies very nicely hands off.? While the elevator loads 
up a bit at speed (which I would not describe as heavy by any means), which 
actually helps to keep one from over-controlling, it also has a good solid feel 
even at very slow speeds.? The elevator is still light as compared to a Sonex 
or RV, but is much closer to that kind of feel than the original tail.
?
I did not enlarge the vertical stab, but instead added some additional area by 
extending the cord of the rudder by an average 2-1/2"? That change 
significantly increased the rudder authority.? If I was doing it again, I would 
have also increased the height of the vertical stab and rudder and cord of the 
vertical stab at least to match the -2S plans, but using the 0009 airfoil.

With the changes to the elevator and rudder, the slow speed handling of the 
plane was significantly improved allowing me to significantly increase the 
manageable crosswind and gust factors for landing, so I get to fly my plane a 
lot more than I was able to before these mods.
?
I don't have the dimensions of the fuselage available, but if you have the KR-2 
plans, it's easy enough to derive.? I did not extend the front fuselage, but 
instead used a bit longer motor mount than was customary at the time to move 
the engine (originally a C-85, then an O-200) forward to balance the aircraft.? 
A number of KR builders have built their engine mounts from the plans I shared 
with the group.
?
-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM
Lots of info on the mods I've done at 

---?


Morning Folks,
?? I would like some more dimensions for the length of existing KR2 and KR2S 
fuselages, (foreword face of main spar to back side of firewall and foreword 
face of main spar to the intersection point of the tail post to fuselage 
bottom) I have about 10 so far but I would like to get 3 or 4 times that many 
to have a decent data base. ( I would like to hear from more of the overseas 
guys... I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to covert to/from meters)
?? The conversation below brings out the same dimensional issue as I am trying 
to document with the fuselage  when adding what is the total dimension. I 
don't have plans in front of me but are we talking about 5 feet wide, 6 feet, 
or even 7 feet I had mentioned it a few weeks ago with the vertical stab... 
when adding height what is ?that from and to. I mentioned at that time for the 
vertical it might be better to talk in sq. feet.
?? Please send any data to n357cj at ptd.net
?I would like to get this out posted with inn a month allowing to get as much 
feed back as I can.
Thanks,
Joe Horton
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Langford via KRnet" 


Joe Nunley wrote:

>> How much carbon fiber is enough? I built a 6 inch extension to my
tail surface the way that Mark describe below. When I attach the new
addition to the airplane I will t88 glue it to the tail and cover in
carbon fiber. I want o overlap the old and new with carbon fiber. How
far do I want to overlap? <<

I would have built the extension in place, as a piece of foam glued to
the end, shaped using the existing airfoil, and then carbon-fibered in
place, overlapping the existing stabilizer (after sanding to expose raw
fiberglass) by something like 3"-4". ?T-88 isn't the first epoxy I'd
have thought of for that job (the way I describe above), but given that
it's already built, T-88 should work fine, as its thickness would help
ensure all surfaces are in good contact. ?Rough it all up to ensure lots
of "tooth", of course.

Mark Langford


___

___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at 

KR> Tail Addition and fuselage lengths

[n357cj]

Morning Folks, 
?? I would like some more dimensions for the length of existing KR2 and KR2S 
fuselages, (foreword face of main spar to back side of firewall and foreword 
face of main spar to the intersection point of the tail post to fuselage 
bottom) I have about 10 so far but I would like to get 3 or 4 times that many 
to have a decent data base. ( I would like to hear from more of the overseas 
guys... I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to covert to/from meters)
?? The conversation below brings out the same dimensional issue as I am trying 
to document with the fuselage  when adding what is the total dimension. I 
don't have plans in front of me but are we talking about 5 feet wide, 6 feet, 
or even 7 feet I had mentioned it a few weeks ago with the vertical stab... 
when adding height what is ?that from and to. I mentioned at that time for the 
vertical it might be better to talk in sq. feet.
?? Please send any data to n357cj at ptd.net 
?I would like to get this out posted with inn a month allowing to get as much 
feed back as I can.
Thanks,
Joe Horton
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Langford via KRnet" 


Joe Nunley wrote:

>> How much carbon fiber is enough? I built a 6 inch extension to my
tail surface the way that Mark describe below. When I attach the new 
addition to the airplane I will t88 glue it to the tail and cover in 
carbon fiber. I want o overlap the old and new with carbon fiber. How 
far do I want to overlap? <<

I would have built the extension in place, as a piece of foam glued to 
the end, shaped using the existing airfoil, and then carbon-fibered in 
place, overlapping the existing stabilizer (after sanding to expose raw 
fiberglass) by something like 3"-4". ?T-88 isn't the first epoxy I'd 
have thought of for that job (the way I describe above), but given that 
it's already built, T-88 should work fine, as its thickness would help 
ensure all surfaces are in good contact. ?Rough it all up to ensure lots 
of "tooth", of course.

Mark Langford


___

KR> Tail Addition

[Wayne]

Thanks Mark,

Nothing beats first hand experience.

Wayne DeLisle Sr.

>
>> What is the height in inches of the tail post for the KR2S? My 2S
>> supplement for some reason doesn't give a measurement for it. I
>> finally found my original KR2 plans package and the tail post is
>> shown as 40" .
>
> Well, the drawing doesn't actually have a scale written on it, but a
> quick measuring job shows that the two 14" dimensions are 7" long, so
> it's a quarter scale.  The tailpost measures 10.5" so it's 42" long.  I
> added something like 4" to it on N56ML and added another two above it in
> the form of a rudder horn, and the slipping capability is phenomenal.
>
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Tail Addition

[Mark Langford]

Wayne DeLisle Sr.

> What is the height in inches of the tail post for the KR2S? My 2S
> supplement for some reason doesn't give a measurement for it. I
> finally found my original KR2 plans package and the tail post is
> shown as 40" .

Well, the drawing doesn't actually have a scale written on it, but a 
quick measuring job shows that the two 14" dimensions are 7" long, so 
it's a quarter scale.  The tailpost measures 10.5" so it's 42" long.  I 
added something like 4" to it on N56ML and added another two above it in 
the form of a rudder horn, and the slipping capability is phenomenal.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Tail Addition

[S]

Bonding two tapered carbon pultrusions on aft spar of horizontal stabilizer 
shall solve the issues (if any...) with increased stress on lengthened control 
surface span. These pultrusions can be bought at many RC model hobby shops.

> To: stardusterone at yahoo.com; krnet at list.krnet.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 05:41:16 -0600
> Subject: Re: KR> Tail Addition
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> CC: ml at n56ml.com
> 
> "Steve" wrote:
> 
>  > Mark , how much extra width would you recommend?
> 
> I don't know if we're talking KR2 or KR2S, but I added 6" to both ends 
> of horizontal stabilizer, while leaving the elevator the same size, and 
> was quite happy with the stability of N56ML, an S.  A KR2 could stand 
> even more, assuming it's strong enough.  The spars probably aren't 
> "designed" for that, but given that I've never heard of a tail spar 
> failure, there's likely some room for growth there.
> 
> Troy Petteway did this, but "fixed" some of the elevator to the 
> horizontal stab to reduce the elevator area, and loved the result.  See 
> http://www.n56ml.com/troy/ for more on that.
> 
> The vertical stabilizer and rudder on N891JF (a KR2), could stand some 
> lengthening as well, but I'm not sure I'll do that, because it's good to 
> have a stock-built KR2 so I can appreciate the KR2S that much more!
> 
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> http://www.n56ml.com
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Tail Addition

[Wayne]

Mark,

What is the height in inches of the tail post for the KR2S?
My 2S supplement for some reason doesn't give a measurement for it. I 
finally found my original KR2 plans package and the tail post is shown 
as 40" .

Wayne DeLisle Sr.

> KR> Tail Addition
>
> "Steve" wrote:
>
>  > Mark , how much extra width would you recommend?
>
> The vertical stabilizer and rudder on N891JF (a KR2), could stand some
> lengthening as well, but I'm not sure I'll do that, because it's good to
> have a stock-built KR2 so I can appreciate the KR2S that much more!
>
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Tail Addition

[Mark Langford]

"Steve" wrote:

 > Mark , how much extra width would you recommend?

I don't know if we're talking KR2 or KR2S, but I added 6" to both ends 
of horizontal stabilizer, while leaving the elevator the same size, and 
was quite happy with the stability of N56ML, an S.  A KR2 could stand 
even more, assuming it's strong enough.  The spars probably aren't 
"designed" for that, but given that I've never heard of a tail spar 
failure, there's likely some room for growth there.

Troy Petteway did this, but "fixed" some of the elevator to the 
horizontal stab to reduce the elevator area, and loved the result.  See 
http://www.n56ml.com/troy/ for more on that.

The vertical stabilizer and rudder on N891JF (a KR2), could stand some 
lengthening as well, but I'm not sure I'll do that, because it's good to 
have a stock-built KR2 so I can appreciate the KR2S that much more!

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Tail Addition

[Mark Langford]

bjoenunley wrote:

 > Does anyone see a problem with adding the white portion in the 
picture to the tail for more stability?

That will help, but the same material further aft on the ends of the 
stabilizer (leaving the elevator the same size) would be more effective, 
and easier to build, since it's simply an extension of the existing 
airfoil, and the existing h/s would act as your sanding template. I'd 
make it out of foam sanded to shape and covered in two layers of carbon 
fiber, personally.  It would be out of the prop stream and in smoother 
air, if that's even a consideration.

If you like that way that looks though, it will help.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Tail Addition

[Mark Langford]

bjoenunley wrote:

 > Does anyone see a problem with adding the white portion in the 
picture to the tail for more stability?

That will help, but the same material further aft on the ends of the 
stabilizer (leaving the elevator the same size) would be more effective, 
and easier to build, since it's simply an extension of the existing 
airfoil, and the existing h/s would act as your sanding template. I'd 
make it out of foam sanded to shape and covered in two layers of carbon 
fiber, personally.  It would be out of the prop stream and in smoother 
air, if that's even a consideration.

If you like that way that looks though, it will help.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Tail Addition

[Steve]

Mark , how much extra width would you recommend

 Original message 
From: Mark Langford via KRnet  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 01/11/2016  6:48 PM  (GMT-09:00) 
To: KRnet  
Cc: Mark Langford  
Subject: Re: KR> Tail Addition 

bjoenunley wrote:

> Does anyone see a problem with adding the white portion in the 
picture to the tail for more stability?

That will help, but the same material further aft on the ends of the 
stabilizer (leaving the elevator the same size) would be more effective, 
and easier to build, since it's simply an extension of the existing 
airfoil, and the existing h/s would act as your sanding template. I'd 
make it out of foam sanded to shape and covered in two layers of carbon 
fiber, personally.? It would be out of the prop stream and in smoother 
air, if that's even a consideration.

If you like that way that looks though, it will help.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com



___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
options

KR> Tail Addition

[bjoenunley]

I followed how others have extended thier horizontal stabilizer for for more 
stability and thought this may be a simple solution.
??1/4 inch foam covered in fiberglass.


Joe Nunley?CW2 US Army RetiredBaker JROTC Instructor?Baker Florida?

 Original message 
From: "Virgil N. Salisbury via KRnet"  
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: 01/11/2016  4:48 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KRnet  
Cc: "Virgil N. Salisbury"  
Subject: Re: KR> Tail Addition 


Why not just reduce the elevator span or chord ? Virg


On 1/11/2016 5:21 PM, bjoenunley via KRnet wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone see a problem with adding the white portion in the picture to the 
> tail for more stability?
>
>
> Joe Nunley CW2 US Army RetiredBaker JROTC Instructor Baker Florida

KR> Tail Addition

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

Why not just reduce the elevator span or chord ? Virg


On 1/11/2016 5:21 PM, bjoenunley via KRnet wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone see a problem with adding the white portion in the picture to the 
> tail for more stability?
>
>
> Joe Nunley CW2 US Army RetiredBaker JROTC Instructor Baker Florida
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options
>