KR> VW / Corvair
VW owners, stick together, and ask just how many crank failures there have really been with Corvairs??? Phillip Matheson 0408665880 (cell) VHPKR Australia. mathes...@dodo.com.au NEW WEB PAGE www.philskr2.50megs.com http://www.vw-engines.com/ OLD WEB PAGE http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html
KR> VW / Corvair
There have been more crank failures in Continentals/Lycomings than any other aircraft engines - but they have also gone through much more in testing and many thousands of engines flying. Many Broken VW cranks have never been documented or tested - just replaced and gone on...There have been changes and upgrades in VW cranks - I know because I bought a 980.00 crank for my 2180 turbo back in 1991...(And I heard of many of those breaking). There have been three document broken cranks on Corvair aricraft and a couple found cracked. There have also been thousands of hours of no problems on Corvair cranks. The solution to all broken crank issues (no matter the engine) is to find the limits and to stay within them or modify the crank. Cast cranks may work on a 1600 - but not a 2180 - a forged may work on a 2180 but not a 3000. A forged / nitrided may work on a 3000...you get the picture. This is experimental aviation and there are risks as always. The name of the game is to reduce the risks as much as possible and achieve your goals. I could have used an O200 but been outside of my expense goals...A corvair is easily inside my expense goals and the added perormance reduces my risk factor - but I do have to nitride the crank (150.00) . The Vw was also close to expense goals but not within performance goals and to make a VW perform like a corvair is too expensive. (Check pricing of new 3000 from Revemaster)The VW engine works well in the 60 - 70 HP range but I am not comfortable with stressing one out past that (not intended for that output) The Corvair was designed to handle 180 Hp and I run it at 100 - less stress on all parts overall. Plus, I just love the sound of my mini Merlin sound.have you ever heard a corvair fly overhead at 180+ ?I finally heard Mark Langfords (I never hear mine) and it sends chills down your spine...makes you want to go flying Build and fly safe all. Well...time for bed Bill and N41768
KR> VW / Corvair
What's this all about Phil. The comparison you make is pointless statistically. John Martindale 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 (H) 61 2 66869094 (W) mobile: 0417 584767 email:johnja...@optusnet.com.au web: www.members.optusnet.com.au/johnjanet/Martindale.htm - Original Message - From: "Phil Matheson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 2:48 PM Subject: Re: KR> VW / Corvair > VW owners, stick together, and ask just how many crank failures there have > really been with Corvairs??? > > > > > Phillip Matheson > 0408665880 (cell) > VHPKR > Australia. > mathes...@dodo.com.au > NEW WEB PAGE > www.philskr2.50megs.com > > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > OLD WEB PAGE > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> VW / Corvair
Designed for 180 HP and runing at 100 Hp is why it will run longer than a VW, rotax, cont. or Jab in the final analynis. Jim On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:19:30 EDT ifly...@aol.com writes: > There have been more crank failures in Continentals/Lycomings than > any other > aircraft engines - but they have also gone through much more in > testing and > many thousands of engines flying. Many Broken VW cranks have > never been > documented or tested - just replaced and gone on...There have been > changes and > upgrades in VW cranks - I know because I bought a 980.00 crank for > my 2180 > turbo back in 1991...(And I heard of many of those breaking). > There have been > three document broken cranks on Corvair aricraft and a couple found > cracked. > There have also been thousands of hours of no problems on Corvair > cranks. > The solution to all broken crank issues (no matter the engine) is > to find the > limits and to stay within them or modify the crank. Cast cranks > may work on > a 1600 - but not a 2180 - a forged may work on a 2180 but not a > 3000. A > forged / nitrided may work on a 3000...you get the picture. This > is > experimental aviation and there are risks as always. The name of > the game is to reduce > the risks as much as possible and achieve your goals. I could > have used an > O200 but been outside of my expense goals...A corvair is easily > inside my > expense goals and the added perormance reduces my risk factor - but > I do have > to nitride the crank (150.00) . The Vw was also close to expense > goals but > not within performance goals and to make a VW perform like a corvair > is too > expensive. (Check pricing of new 3000 from Revemaster)The VW > engine works > well in the 60 - 70 HP range but I am not comfortable with > stressing one out > past that (not intended for that output) The Corvair was designed > to handle > 180 Hp and I run it at 100 - less stress on all parts overall. > > Plus, I just love the sound of my mini Merlin sound.have > you ever > heard a corvair fly overhead at 180+ ?I finally heard Mark > Langfords (I > never hear mine) and it sends chills down your spine...makes you > want to go > flying > Build and fly safe all. > Well...time for bed > > Bill and N41768 > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >
KR> VW / Corvair
Jim Ferris wrote: > Designed for 180 HP and runing at 100 Hp is why it will run longer than a > VW, rotax, cont. or Jab in the final analynis. And contrast that with the VW, which was designed for 46 hp (the most recent fuel injected engines were 60 SAE HP, but they used the "same" case), and we are asking it to put out 70-80 hp continuously, and then taking that power out of the engine through the "pulley" end of the engine, which was designed to power only the fan and generator. As Bill mentioned, VW crankshafts have evolved to a point that greatly improves their reliability, but they still break cranks, and the engine cases still have longevity problems. Standard VW rebuild practice is to inspect the crank bore in the case for fretting, and often they are "line bored" and oversize crank bearings are used to bring them back to a useable condition. Corvair cases are so strong that there is no such procedure, because that problem is virtually non-existent. Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
KR> VW / Corvair
-Original Message- VW owners, stick together, and ask just how many crank failures there have really been with Corvairs??? END. I must say, there have most likely been a lot more failures on the VW during it's teething phase of development. I have flown the VW for over 300 hours and it has been reliable and is a great alternative for someone building their KR by the plans. I would just like to have a bit more power for the money. My next KR is designed for the Corvair installation. It will be a turbo Corvair in my modified KR-1 and should really move along. My point with Dan was that I can't wait to see him fly and I wouldn't wait for the conversion to do it... Enough computer stuff, I'm going flying now. Regards, Steve Glover KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca
Réf. : Re: KR> VW / Corvair
Mark, that would be true for the VW Type 1, 2 and 3. But the Type IV is a
complete redesign of the VW case, complete with new alloy and thicker
walls, and much more. It was designed right from the start for high power,
with the Porsche racing cars in mind. The stock 2.0 liter, non
turbocharged, non injected, was good for 65 hp. There also is a rare 6
cylinder Porsche version of it which is pretty mean
This being said, if I could get my hands on a Corvair, I would build
something bigger tha a KR2 to match it! ;-)
Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France
"Mark Langford"
Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net
08/07/2006 13:37
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 08/07/2006 13:37
Pour : "KRnet"
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : Re: KR> VW / Corvair
Jim Ferris wrote:
> Designed for 180 HP and runing at 100 Hp is why it will run longer than
a
> VW, rotax, cont. or Jab in the final analynis.
And contrast that with the VW, which was designed for 46 hp (the most
recent
fuel injected engines were 60 SAE HP, but they used the "same" case), and
we
are asking it to put out 70-80 hp continuously, and then taking that power
out of the engine through the "pulley" end of the engine, which was
designed
to power only the fan and generator. As Bill mentioned, VW crankshafts
have
evolved to a point that greatly improves their reliability, but they still
break cranks, and the engine cases still have longevity problems. Standard
VW rebuild practice is to inspect the crank bore in the case for fretting,
and often they are "line bored" and oversize crank bearings are used to
bring them back to a useable condition. Corvair cases are so strong that
there is no such procedure, because that problem is virtually
non-existent.
Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
Re: Réf. : Re: KR> VW / Corvair
Serge Vidal wrote: > Mark, that would be true for the VW Type 1, 2 and 3. But the Type IV is a > complete redesign of the VW case, complete with new alloy and thicker > walls, and much more. I realize that the Type 4 VW is a vast improvement over the Type 1, which is what I was speaking of, because it's the one that's primarily used in aircraft, and also the one that Dan has in his airplane. You may have forgotten that I spent a few years as a mechanic at a VW dealership while waiting for my first wife to get out of the Air Force so we could start college at Auburn. I own two Type 4 engines myself, and have a Type 4 case sitting on the shelf, so I'm aware of the improvements over the Type 1. My airplane was originally going to be powered by a Type 4 (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kvw.html ), but the discovery of the Corvair changed that... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net --
Réf. : Re: Réf. : Re: KR> VW / Corvair
I had no idea you had done that in your life, Mark. You're full of
surprises. My mentor just improved! ;-)
I firmly believe all a KR needs in the front is 60 hp. Anything more than
that is nice to thave, but frankly, not mandatory. So, for the rest, guys,
get whatever engine suits your taste and/or your budget.
Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France
"Mark Langford"
Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem@mylist.net
10/07/2006 01:29
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 10/07/2006 01:26
Pour : "KRnet"
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : Re: Réf. : Re: KR> VW / Corvair
Serge Vidal wrote:
> Mark, that would be true for the VW Type 1, 2 and 3. But the Type IV is
a
> complete redesign of the VW case, complete with new alloy and thicker
> walls, and much more.
I realize that the Type 4 VW is a vast improvement over the Type 1, which
is
what I was speaking of, because it's the one that's primarily used in
aircraft, and also the one that Dan has in his airplane. You may have
forgotten that I spent a few years as a mechanic at a VW dealership while
waiting for my first wife to get out of the Air Force so we could start
college at Auburn. I own two Type 4 engines myself, and have a Type 4
case
sitting on the shelf, so I'm aware of the improvements over the Type 1. My
airplane was originally going to be powered by a Type 4 (see
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kvw.html ), but the discovery of the
Corvair changed that...
Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
--
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KR> VW & Corvair
Larry is right. More power means better climb, higher cruise in most cases and more power in reserve if needed. Mark's comments to me were not meant to say that the VW is bad, just on the lower end of the available power spectrum, for engines that match the KR. There is an old saying that fits perfectly here: "There is no replacement for displacement". Given the same setup, the engine with more CID will out perform the smaller engine. The RG2000 may be a good engine, I don't own one so I don't know. But it will have to be run at a higher rpm to make the same torque as the Corvair, even through its gear drive, so it will surely effect engine life to some degree. Still it will be hard to knock the 3.5 gallons an hour I was burning with my first VW engine! The RV camps are going through a similar 4 to 6 cylinder transition, as many RV builders are finding the O-540 more affordable and economical to operate than the O-360. Kind of the same thing here, VW to Corvair Colin Rainey brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net
KR>VW, Corvair or 0200?
Thanks for your responses, Dan. I don't know the size of the VW that the project comes with, but assuming that I can have it bored out to say, 2180 -- would that be enough for two people weighing around 150 lbs each? Or is a Corvair or 0200 really required? Rick --- Dan Heath wrote: > If built properly, with the appropriate power plant > and the CG in the right, > absolutely. I also was a low time pilot, and my > first KR did not have > enough power nor was the CG in the right place for > 2. > Put on a nice Corvair or 0200 > and you should be good to go. The plane I am > working on now was started > almost that long ago. If properly kept, it should > not be a problem, but you > should be able to tell if it has been properly > housed. __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
KR>VW, Corvair or 0200?
RE: 2180 -- would that be enough for two people weighing around 150 lbs each? Yes, but it will be slow. Just get your CG right by putting the engine in the right place. Jim Faughn talks a lot about this and it is critical to having a good flying plane. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC da...@kr-builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org
KR>VW, Corvair or 0200? / VW
Rick, Take the time to look at some great VW engines as well. http://www.vw-engines.com/ May as well check out all the available. engines Phillip Matheson mathe...@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/
