KR> Valdosta crash
Maybe in a perfect world, but that is just not reality. It is not feasible to foresee that an installation you have paid another to do was performed properly whether it is Bill, Cessna, local FBO, or anyone else. That is why it is called liability and negligence in the event of a failure due to poor workmanship. And no, this post is not directed at Bill. Steve Glover Long-EZ N2121U Former KR-2 N902G Corona, CA kr...@cox.net -Original Message- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Richard Hasbrook Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:13 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Valdosta crash Correct Steve... Pilot on command is always responsible to ensure his aircraft is in Perfect condition... Every fllight. Dick Salol, MN
KR> Valdosta crash
Correct Steve... Pilot on command is always responsible to ensure his aircraft is in Perfect condition... Every fllight. Dick Salol, MN Stephen Glover wrote: > Interesting, so that means if you pay Cessna $100,000 for a new airplane you > should go over it with a fine tooth comb to make certain the engine or > associated components are perfect. In general, basically disregard the fact > that you have paid for a "professional" installation or product and given > the fact you are not a certified mechanic with the ability to sign it off as > airworthy? So in essence you are saying who cares that you pay someone to > perform major work on your plane, you should also be certified and be able > to determine whether the installation is correct. > > Oh brother > > > Steve Glover > Long-EZ N2121U > Former KR-2 N902G > Corona, CA > kr...@cox.net > > > -Original Message- > > If it was a New engine, It was still pilot error, Because > he was responsible for it to be in shape, BEFORE making that flight. > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >
KR> Valdosta crash
Interesting, so that means if you pay Cessna $100,000 for a new airplane you should go over it with a fine tooth comb to make certain the engine or associated components are perfect. In general, basically disregard the fact that you have paid for a "professional" installation or product and given the fact you are not a certified mechanic with the ability to sign it off as airworthy? So in essence you are saying who cares that you pay someone to perform major work on your plane, you should also be certified and be able to determine whether the installation is correct. Oh brother Steve Glover Long-EZ N2121U Former KR-2 N902G Corona, CA kr...@cox.net -Original Message- If it was a New engine, It was still pilot error, Because he was responsible for it to be in shape, BEFORE making that flight.
KR> Valdosta crash
Steve , no throwing under the bus has ever been done here. As someone who has helped in many investigations in the past we can only go by what is known. We know that there were no apparent electrical problems in the prior two flights but after Cary had been working under the panel is when the accident happened. The only "known" changes from flight 2 to flight 3 are the pilot and the fact that work was done under the panel. This is a cautionary note for mechanics and pilots alike that even if you were under the panel to change and altimeter or something simple, something could have been moved, a wire pulled loose, a screw left to fall on a bus bar, lack of proper wire sizing on installing a new product, when cutting a tie wrap you nick or cut a wireThe list of any problem can go on. This KR did not have a removable top lid so work had to be done upside down and under the panel - a difficult job. I am in the midst of rewiring a panel in a Sonex that will include a Dynon, EIS and Com plus more. While taking it apart I found two loose ground screws (with four ground wires on each) two clipped wires going to nowhere, one intercom wire with connector not attached to anything (and they complained that it didnt work right), improper crimps on many connectors, plugs on the back of EIS not attached with screws, and a "rats nest" appearance to it all. This from a builder who may or may not have been an electrician. To be done correctly one needs to study and practice and many people dont take the time or think "that's good enough". Well, not always. I just am amazed when I hear that I am trying to throw one of my best friends under the bus when I took the risks of first tests flights for him in order to protect him the best I could, and I have done it for many people. The deduction of an electrical failure is just on the facts that we have. The real original failure that lead to the death of Cary was his decision to go outside of the planned testing and put himself in a more precarious situation where his options were minimized. This can happen to any of us. It is something I take very seriously since I do fly many planes. To put this into perspective, how many people rent a 152 or 172 and know anything about the maintenance, how good the A is, who the last pilot was and so one but go ahead and fly it. In a sense you are always test flying a rental because you have less control of the maintenance and care of the plane. I go over a plane very carefully when flying for the first time. It is good practice and will extend your life and give you more years of flying...maybe. Sometime you can still do everything right that you know to do and still end up short. I think God has a lot to do with that. We are not always in control, and in reality probably never are Bill Clapp - Aeromax Aviation Manager KR2S builder and pilot Valdosta, GA aeromaxaviation.com / billclapp.com From: Stephen Glover <n92...@cox.net> To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:00:26 AM Subject: RE: KR> Valdosta crash So was throwing the pilot under the bus for his electrical wiring when the facts had not been released... Whatever the outcome of the investigation is, I think the speculation is more damaging, especially to one's family if they happen to monitor the KR net as opposed to saying something like, "that is terrible, I hope it wasn't something the builder pilot did". That is a little less accusatory of the builder pilot, at least until the facts are out. This stuff can happen to anybody. How would you want people talking about you in that case? Steve Glover Long-EZ N2121U Former KR-2 N902G Corona, CA kr...@cox.net -Original Message- You mean other than this was the first official engine installation product of Bill Clapp's new company and he tried to blame the guy flying the plane? Why do you make this remark? I think it is bad manners! ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Valdosta crash
This IS meant as a Sarcastic Remark Why you Say..? Because they have blamed it on Being a first time Pilot, his electrical wiring ability, and Smoking. Why would they not try to put the blame off on a new company? I find it amazing that groups have to look for anything other than a Large Error on the part of the Pilot. If he was smoking, it was Pilot Error. If it was a New engine, It was still pilot error, Because he was responsible for it to be in shape, BEFORE making that flight. Whoever... made the first post that Willie is refering to, has not now caused a LOT of doubt in Bill's ability as a new company, but quite possibly hurt future business. After meeting this Gent at Osh 2007, and grilling/listening to him for over 3 hours... I cannot imagine pour quality work. My point THINK BEFORE YOU POST.. For those who have questioned the whereabouts of the Dreaded LSA KR Site, I will post it below. Although I do not want to promote it here, I also know this group does not like to talk LSA, so I feel I may be doing you somewhat of a service. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kr2Sport/ Take care, and sorry about rattling off again... Dick Salol, MN Willie van der Walt wrote: > Subject: RE: KR> Valdosta crash > > You mean other than this was the first official engine . > > Why do you make this remark? I think it is bad manners! > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >
KR> Valdosta crash
So was throwing the pilot under the bus for his electrical wiring when the facts had not been released... Whatever the outcome of the investigation is, I think the speculation is more damaging, especially to one's family if they happen to monitor the KR net as opposed to saying something like, "that is terrible, I hope it wasn't something the builder pilot did". That is a little less accusatory of the builder pilot, at least until the facts are out. This stuff can happen to anybody. How would you want people talking about you in that case? Steve Glover Long-EZ N2121U Former KR-2 N902G Corona, CA kr...@cox.net -Original Message- You mean other than this was the first official engine installation product of Bill Clapp's new company and he tried to blame the guy flying the plane? Why do you make this remark? I think it is bad manners!
KR> Valdosta crash
I am not sure what the situation is with Bill Clapp and some other members of the KR2 net group. It is not nice to see everybody having a go at him every time he makes a posting. I drove almost 2000km to meet him and his dad when they passed trough South Africa and I am sure I am not such a bad judge of character. All the KR2 pilots here, who met him, liked him and his dad. I have been flying my KR2 with a small leak in the header tank for some time now. It was only leaking when I filled up over 40 liters. After I read this tragic story I went and took the plane apart to remove the tank. I am now in the process of sealing the whole tank over with Pratley Steel (Epoxy Glue) as I am not sure where the AVGAS is coming from.
KR> Valdosta crash
-Original Message- From: krnet-bounces+tourinfo=intekom.co...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+tourinfo=intekom.co...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Glover Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 5:18 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> Valdosta crash You mean other than this was the first official engine installation product of Bill Clapp's new company and he tried to blame the guy flying the plane? Why do you make this remark? I think it is bad manners!
KR> Valdosta crash - lessons to be learned....
I was really surprised to find out from Cary's friend Tim (a pilot) that he smoked all the time while flying. Cary had driven up to VA to pick up a plane that Tim had purchased and ferried it down with Tim about two weeks before the accident. On that flight (an airplane Cary had never flown before) Cary asked Tim if he could "light up" since it calmed him down. Of course Tim said no but it kind of shocked him as well. Apparently Cary had always smoked when flying. He got his license back in the 70s when it was typical to find ashtrays in airplanes. I personally dont think he tried to smoke on that flight but had another problem electrical in nature since the radio frequency changed and the engine was still running when he attempeted the landing. We wont ever know for sure but as I spend today installing a Dynon and EIS in an airplane I am spending extra time to secure all wiring properly and making sure there are good connectors. Be cautious and deliberate in your work everybody. Bill Clapp - Aeromax Aviation Manager KR2S builder and pilot Valdosta, GA aeromaxaviation.com / billclapp.com From: Stephen Glover <n92...@cox.net> To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 9:48:39 AM Subject: RE: KR> Valdosta crash - lessons to be learned I do remember Cary from the Gathering and do remember he was a smoker. If that was the case, I think we all agree that it is not a good idea to be smoking in any plane while flying. I can't believe he would be that lax on his first solo flight to be worrying about lighting up to smoke. Who knows? That is an interesting fact about the emergency radio. It is certainly something I didn't know. As I said, it will be interesting to find out the results of the investigation. Steve Glover Long-EZ N2121U Former KR-2 N902G Corona, CA kr...@cox.net ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> Valdosta crash - lessons to be learned....
I do remember Cary from the Gathering and do remember he was a smoker. If that was the case, I think we all agree that it is not a good idea to be smoking in any plane while flying. I can't believe he would be that lax on his first solo flight to be worrying about lighting up to smoke. Who knows? That is an interesting fact about the emergency radio. It is certainly something I didn't know. As I said, it will be interesting to find out the results of the investigation. Steve Glover Long-EZ N2121U Former KR-2 N902G Corona, CA kr...@cox.net
KR> Valdosta crash
You mean other than this was the first official engine installation product of Bill Clapp's new company and he tried to blame the guy flying the plane? There was plenty of fuel as it was at least one of the sources of the fire which appears to have originated in the "engine compartment" based upon the exterior streaking from the flames noted on the fuselage. The investigation is still not complete so it will be interesting to see the final results. To say the radio installation was the source of the smoke/ fire does not mesh with what is already known. 1. The owner/ pilot was an electrician, he did wiring for a living so he probably knew what he was doing. 2. If the radio was the source of the initial and subsequent problem it would not have continued to operate allowing him to make the radio calls recorded. Anyone ever smoke a circuit before and it still worked? Not very likely I think. Make sure you know who is working on your plane and what their qualifications are. A nice paint job doesn't make up for poor quality. Steve Glover Long-EZ N2121U Former KR-2 N902G Corona, CA kr...@cox.net -Original Message- Subject: KR> Valdosta crash Does anyone know any details about the Valdosta crash? All I've read here is that he had an electrical problem and hit a tree trying to get it on the ground. If anyone knows any more than that about the crash I for one would be interested. Did gas have anything to do with him having to get it on the ground?
KR> Valdosta crash
Here is a link on FAA preliminary findings. http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=ed7f68fc-adad-48fe-817c-8e6942183dd0 Al Hawkins KR2 Port Coquitlam, B.C. Canada laser...@juno.com wrote: > Does anyone know any details about the Valdosta crash? > > All I've read here is that he had an electrical problem and hit a tree > trying to get it on the ground. > > If anyone knows any more than that about the crash I for one would be > interested. > > Did gas have anything to do with him having to get it on the ground? > > Mike > > Click here to find the perfect banking opportunity! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTMLulBDdpBJBOD66YA79SsOeEWCHC3UGA7Jmq3kYtBNqUGSmKCBn6/ > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Valdosta crash
Does anyone know any details about the Valdosta crash? All I've read here is that he had an electrical problem and hit a tree trying to get it on the ground. If anyone knows any more than that about the crash I for one would be interested. Did gas have anything to do with him having to get it on the ground? Mike Click here to find the perfect banking opportunity! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTMLulBDdpBJBOD66YA79SsOeEWCHC3UGA7Jmq3kYtBNqUGSmKCBn6/
