[lace] Piecework magazine
I asked my newsagent to make enquiries as there was no sign of the next issue arriving. she was informed by the suppliers that it has ceased publication :-( Is this really so? I don't entirely trust the local Smiths wholesalers. Patricia in Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Piecework magazine
If it's Interweave's Piecework you're talking about, looks like they're still OK: http://www.interweave.com/needle/default.asp At 06:43 AM 8/25/2006 -0400, you wrote: I asked my newsagent to make enquiries as there was no sign of the next issue arriving. she was informed by the suppliers that it has ceased publication :-( Is this really so? I don't entirely trust the local Smiths wholesalers. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] dating old lace-knitting needles?
In a message dated 8/24/06 10:26:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tthe black paper envelope my needles came in says Made in England. So at some point my fine steel knitting pins crossed the Atlantic. Dear Collectors, In my collection are many old packages of needles of various types. They are all wrapped in the black paper - which must have been treated with some chemical (to prevent rusting?). But, heed the word must. I do not know for a fact. Also, I have a set of eight 8 1/2 long steel knitting needles that my grandmother used to knit stockings and mittens. They came to me in an interlocking-type wooden tube (one end slides into the other). Maine is a part of the world where many small wood products have been made over the years. The wood has no finish of varnish or any similar product - it is raw wood that has become darker with age. I *suspect they believed* the wood absorbed moisture before it got all the way through to the needles.. After over 100 years, there is a very little rusting of the needles. Please bear in mind that I do not knit. I just treasure these needles, partly because grandmother never used them in front of me and refused to sew, mend, embroider or do any type of needlework. By age 7, I was begging neighbors to teach me how to embroider! Within 4 years, by age 11, I was making clothing for myself and my first book on needlework had become a personal treasure. If you are a collector-type person, starting at an early age is helpful. Now, I have 60 years of collected embroidery memories, and 3,300+ books that feed my needlework addiction. Sometimes a really old book has the best answers. At least, it is nearer the source, and not something partially imagined that has been put on a website by an inadequate researcher and is being repeated as truth by those who should know to go back to source material. Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace and Embroidery Resource Center - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] beginning a big (for me) project
Well, I landed in Belgium last week and DH had the house all set up already so I'm ready to begin making some lace. Several months ago before I had to pack out for the move, I had asked for advice regarding wedding garters and received quite a few responses with some useful ideas. My daughter and I have decided on a torchon pattern by Louise Colgan that has mirrored sides with a ribbon running through the center. The edge of the lace has hearts which my daughter has decided she wants done in blue in order to bring in her bit of blue. I think it will be a pretty effect-at least I hope so. Today I'm going to start winding bobbins while I wait for more to come. How is it I never seem to have enough? I guess I could put together 44 pair but I prefer to work with similar styles and I don't want to cut off another on-going project. Before I start winding these though, I thought I'd make sure I have my all thoughts straight as I'm using silk and I don't want to waste too much with silly mistakes. The recommended length of the garter is 24. If DD is 21 around the thigh, is that long enough? And if I remember correctly one can estimate 4 times that length for each bobbin or approx. 100 of thread needed / bobbin. Is that correct? I do prefer to err on the longer side and purchase more thread if necessary. Another question I had is that the weavers in the hearts will be blue but I'm assuming that weavers have a different usage rate than 4 times the length. Would I be safe in estimating 6 times the length? This will be the harder thread to match if I have to purchase more. I appreciate any and all advice and am looking forward to being back on the list after this summer's absence. Dona Bushong in Maisieres Belgium (loving the cool weather after D.C.'s hot summer!) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Piecework magazine
I really doubt it has ceased publication; in fact it seems to be growing! I know someone who has written a bobbin lace-related article for the November-December issue. Diane Williams Galena, IL USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I asked my newsagent to make enquiries as there was no sign of the next issue arriving. she was informed by the suppliers that it has ceased publication :-( Is this really so? I don't entirely trust the local Smiths wholesalers. Patricia in Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] Piecework magazine
Last week, I subscribed to Piecework for one year and I just checked my Visa account and it has been billed. I certainly wish they have not ceased publication... Nicole Le 06-08-25 à 07:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : If it's Interweave's Piecework you're talking about, looks like they're still OK: http://www.interweave.com/needle/default.asp - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] dating old lace-knitting needles?
And here is the answer I received from Plaid: Unfortunately, all I can tell you is that they were discontinued before Plaid purchased Bucilla in 1996. Thank you for contacting Plaid. Lynn Carpenter in SW Michigan, USA alwen at i2k dot com http://lost-arts.blogspot.com/ - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] PieceWork Magazine
Dear Spiders, I received my September/October issue of PieceWork magazine in the mail yesterday. This issue highlights quilts and is up to its usual high standard of interesting articles and gorgeous pictures. If you're concerned about receiving your latest issue, their subscription info is: e-mail - [EMAIL PROTECTED] website - www.interweave.com I've no connection to them; I'm just a satisfied customer! Betsy Sykes Raleigh, NC - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] RE:PieceWork magazine
Yes, and I just received my subscription copy in today's mail. Looks to have interesting articles as usual. I seem to recall someone else some months ago in Oz I think being told the same thing or thinking the same thing. From memory, their issues have been very regular, and I've subscribed from about the 2nd or 3rd year of publication. Cheers, Helen, Aussie in Denver - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace] Re: Dominique from Paris
Thanks, *everyone* (too many to answer individually) for your offers of help in re-connecting with Dominique. She saw my posting herself (apparently, not all of Paris leaves the city for vacation in August, contrary to propaganda g) and all should be straightened out now. -- Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/ Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace] beginning a big (for me) project
Dear Dona, Welcome to Europe! Now you are near neighbours again. Sorry I can't help you with your question about how much thread you need for your daughter's wedding garter, but I can tell you that it will look nicer if it is gathered more, so you should at least double the length you make. Therefore 42 is needed. I hope your other lace stuff arrives soon. Pene Penelope Piip [EMAIL PROTECTED] City of Tartu, Estonia - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Another interesting bit on surnames
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 17:50:14 +0100, Jean wrote: When letters are addressed jointly, ours are to Mr and Mrs William Nathan (William being my husband's first name). I believe that strictly speaking I should be address as Mrs William Nathan - think again! That implies the old idea of a wife belonging/being subservient/being part of, etc her husband. Would have been perfectly acceptable to women probably until WW2, when women went out and did the jobs that men would have done had they not been fighting. The custom persisted longer than that in some places. In my childhood in the 1960s I remember addresses on letters arriving for my mother only addressed to Mrs Alan Hollis. To a child it seemed creepy that letters to my grandmother were addressed with my grandfather's name, given that he had been dead for over 20 years. At my local lace group we were having a clear out of the library cupboard recently and came across some issues of the IOLI bulletin dating back to the late 60s/early 70s. There were some lists of names and addresses, I think new members but it could have been office holders. All the people were female, and they were listed in the form Mrs Alan Smith (Jane). Only the single women were listed with women's forenames. -- Money can't buy everything. That's what credit cards are for. Steph Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tatting, lace stitching page http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/index.htm To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] First names
After such an interesting chat on surnames, what about first names. I was taken aback when doing the weekly shop last week to hear a very young mum (about 17) calling out to her toddler of about 2 years old Britney! Britney! Didn't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for the little girl. It's not unusual for people to name their children after their idol? My parents decided to name us so that they couldn't be shortened. So Jean for me and John for my older brother. At the time they couldn't think of anything for my unplanned younger brother and he is Roger, so non-shortening didn't work and he was called Rodge or Podge. It was the custom in the family for the first-born eldest of each sex to take the first name of the appropriate parent as their second name. So my grandmother was Caroline Maude (but know as Maude), my mother Elsie Maude and I'm Jean Elsie (hate that name). I have no children, but both my brother broke with that tradition and just picked names they liked for their children. Now the son of one has decided to go back to older names from his ancestors. His twin girls are named Georgiana (my great-grandmother's name on my mother's side, so that would be his daughter's great-great-great-grandmother) and Charlotte (Charles being the name of first-born male children for as far back as we can go on my father's side). Obviously they'll be known as Georgie and Charlie. I suppose thst one day Britney will be the name of someone's ancestor too. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] First names
My brother-in-law and his wife decided when their first was on the way, that what ever names they chose, they wouldn't be able to be shortened. The first one was named Annabelle, the second Lucretia, then Kingsley, Madeline and Hayden. Not sure what happened to names that couldn't be shortened... Helen. My parents decided to name us so that they couldn't be shortened. So Jean for me and John for my older brother. At the time they couldn't think of anything for my unplanned younger brother and he is Roger, so non-shortening didn't work and he was called Rodge or Podge. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] RE: surnames
Nova wrote: - but they began to find it awkward for their little children to try to teach them to use the *Mr and Mrs* title when speaking to the other adults so they elected to use the first names (the children were already familiar with) - but adding Mr. or Mrs. for a sign of respect, thus using Mr. Eric and Miss Sharon (for example) - rather than have the children call the adults by first name only. :-) As a small child, I never knew our neighbours' first names, but called them Auntie Gillies, Auntie Catford etc. although they were not real relations. Martha wrote: Most American children are given a first and a middle name at birth (though knowing that I was unlikely to have a fourth child, we gave both grandfathers' names as middle names to Ian William Herbert Krieg), so Catholics may easily end up with three names. I was born to Dorothy and William Burgh. My father said that, with a surname like Burgh, nobody needed a middle name for identification, so I never had one. My Mother used to be Dorothy May Smith; as a child there was another Dorothy May Smith in the same class at school. Maybe Smiths need more than one middle name! David wrote: And yet here in Australia we would say Dah-na and Tah-ra: never anything different with those two. Same here, David - and I was brought up in Scotland. And Steph wrote: In my childhood in the 1960s I remember addresses on letters arriving for my mother only addressed to Mrs Alan Hollis. To a child it seemed creepy that letters to my grandmother were addressed with my grandfather's name, given that he had been dead for over 20 years. My mother was Mrs William Burgh until my father died, then she became Mrs Dorothy Burgh. I thought that was the norm - a widow uses her own first name. And I was the last Burgh in our family, so I kept the name alive in my e-address G. Margery. [EMAIL PROTECTED] in North Herts, UK To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] First names
From: Helen Ward wrote The first one was named Annabelle, the second Lucretia, then Kingsley, Madeline and Hayden. Not sure what happened to names that couldn't be shortened... People like to try to shorten my name, but most ask what do I get called for short. I smile and say Malvary. If anyone calls me Mal, I usually as them to use my full name or if they persist I tend not to answer when they speak to me! After all, no point in having an interesting, different name and not using it. Malvary in Ottawa, Canada To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] first names
This is certainly a very interesting thread! When my parents met, which was in Rome, Italy, the Italians didn't quite know what to do with my fathers names, Thurlow Weed. Somehow it became Carlo Guidi. Some time ago I joined the local Dutch Club (since I'm half Dutch), and joined up in as Thurlow. When I attended my first get-together, I discovered that while I've been in the US my whole life, nearly all the others were more recent arrivals, and they were having trouble either remembering or getting their tongues around Thurlow. I decided from that point on with the club I would go by my very Dutch middle name of Berend. Not only did they know what to do with that name and could easily remember it, but it would do my mother proud, as she sometimes complains I don't use that name enough! I'm named Berend after my g-g-g-grandfather Berend Kunst, a famous Dutch poet and portrait painter. To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Name not known
Okay Jean, What is a Trilby? This is new to me (on this side of the pond). Lorri Washington State, USA , Mr Trilby (wears one). To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] First names
My parents decided to name us so that they couldn't be shortened. So Jean for me and John for my older brother. You reminded me of a young couple that didn't like shortened names, so named their son Jaz. I often wondered if he grew up being called Red or Buddie or Scooter or some such nickname since his own did not lend itself to shortening. Alice in Oregon -- Wedding edging 1/4 done To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Trilby
A trilby is a man's hat described by Wikepedia as softer than a homberg and similar to a fedora, but with a narrower brim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilby Not worn by many nowadays. Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] RE: surnames
On 25 Aug 2006, at 12:47, Margery Allcock wrote: I was born to Dorothy and William Burgh. My father said that, with a surname like Burgh, nobody needed a middle name for identification, so I never had one. My Mother used to be Dorothy May Smith; as a child there was another Dorothy May Smith in the same class at school. Maybe Smiths need more than one middle name! My experience of indexing old birth registers is that very often the children with common surnames, especially the Smiths, only got one first name whilst those with more distinctive surnames got two or even three given names! David wrote: And yet here in Australia we would say Dah-na and Tah-ra: never anything different with those two. Same here, David - and I was brought up in Scotland. Also in south east England Brenda http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] First names
On 25 Aug 2006, at 08:30, Jean Nathan wrote: I was taken aback when doing the weekly shop last week to hear a very young mum (about 17) calling out to her toddler of about 2 years old Britney! Britney! Didn't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for the little girl. It's not unusual for people to name their children after their idol? There are two sorts of names, classics such as Elizabeth, Mary, Jane, John, William, Thomas... and fashionable names which come and go with the generations. There were lots of Brendas around when I was at school, but can't remember the last time I came across a child called Brenda. Kylie was the in name a few years ago, I guess that's now given way to Britney. Brenda http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/ To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Names and titles
Seeing all these comments about married women being addressed by their husbands name prefixed with Mrs set off one of my pet niggles. My family background is Quaker, and I taught to address people by their given name family name and not to use titles as everyone is equal, and using titles denote inequality. For myself I only ever use my given name family name, Rosemary Naish, and normally this is acceptable, except when you come to a computer. Most systems seem to insist on using a title, so I always use the default, which is normally set to Mr - this does seem to upset a lot of sales assistants, bank clerks etc, but I think it just shows how out of date and ridiculous the whole system of courtsey titles is. What I have no problem with is titles that have been earned, like Doctor, Professor, etc. What do other people think? Rosemary, Somerset To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Names Titles
Rosemary's post got me thinking a bit about my upbringing. I was discussing this thread with my mother by phone this morning, and she too, despised being addressed as Mrs Thurlow Weed. She had her own name, thank you very much. Shortly after she was married, she encountered Mrs Thurlow Weed, the former Auwina van Dijk. As far as she was concerned, she still was very much Auwina, nothing former about it. (And still is to this day!) In the US, she formally uses Auwina Weed, but when she goes to the Netherlands to visit, the uses her maiden name of van Dijk. Part of it, she admits, is linguistics, as people in the US often become helpless with a Dutch surname, and in the Netherlands the English Weed produces some interesting spelling variations. With regard to titles, I was always taught to address my elders as Mr or Mrs So-and-so. It was taught as a form of respect, that children are never to address an older person by their first names. That would be disrespectful. Of course, earned titles such as Dr, Rev, and so forth were always appropriate. As one grew up, this practise would be continued to some extent among one's peers in business settings, until such time as the professional relationship was close enough to allow address by first name, or if one was invited to do so. One of my peeves is the tendency nowadays of children addressing people of their parents' or grandparents' generation by their first names. I am not often in surroundings with young children, but on the rare occasion that I find myself so, I occasionally find myself correcting an (in my mind) erroneous introduction, and I insist young children address me as Mr Weed. They're not old enough to address me by my first name. Addressing an elder by first name is a privilege, not a right. Recently though, I'm finding younger people (in their 20s, I'm 40) are addressing me as Sir. While I suppose this is done out of respect, I find it a bit startling, as it is unexpected. Am I starting to look that distinguished, or just that old and wrinkled? According to my SO, it's the latter; according to everyone else, it isn't. :) I must add though, that my first grade teacher has implored me, since I'm now an adult, to please address her as Jeanne. While I appreciated the invitation, I told her she made such an impression on me as a child, and drove home so firmly how to address one's elders, I had to politely decline and continue to address her as Miss Gruenwald. It would feel rude and impolite to do otherwise. She laughed and then lamented that she had the same trouble with nearly all of her former pupils. Perhaps I taught them too well, she said with a chuckle. But now I'm curious: the tendency in the US of children addressing elders by their first name; while I abhor it, I am curious to know if this is the case in other countries as well. Is this a US phenomenon, or does it exist elsewhere? Thurlow an old-fashioned person Lancaster, OH To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Women's married names
The etiquette book I used to pore over in the 1960s specified that a married woman's letter should always be addressed to Mrs. John Doe. Only a divorced woman would become Mrs. Jane Doe; a widow would continue to use her husband's name. And that's how I still address letters to widows of my parents' generation. But one of my friends in 1968 insisted on addressing letters to me as Mrs. Martha Krieg. She said, To me, there's a whole lot more difference between you and Laurence than one s! It was the tip of the wedge, as obviously other people felt as she did. But the real revolution in how women were seen legally was still to come. I know a tenured full professor at the University of Michigan who in the 1960s or 1970s had trouble buying a house for herself. She was a single woman, and the bankers did not lend to unmarried women! -- -- Martha Krieg [EMAIL PROTECTED] in Michigan To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[lace-chat] Re: Names Titles
On Aug 25, 2006, at 17:07, Thurlow Weed wrote: Rosemary's post got me thinking a bit about my upbringing. I was discussing this thread with my mother by phone this morning, and she too, despised being addressed as Mrs Thurlow Weed. She had her own name, thank you very much. Precisely VBG. I got married in '73 and my husband expected me to use the Mrs Severn Duvall format, that being the custom. Doubtless, so that the same calling card can be used for all your generic wives said I, dripping sarcasm. He did try to explain about the widow's priviledge of reverting to her first name, but I was disinclined to wait; I had just gotten married, for love, and couldn't think of a more grisly idea than having to wait for his death before I could reclaim my identity. So I never used my predecessor's calling cards... As for titles... I grew up with several gradations of respect. Until I was 18, my Mother's friends (my father didn't seem to have any g) were addressed as Aunt Jane and Uncle George (while real aunts and uncles -- all on my father's side -- were addressed simply as Aunt and Uncle, though referred to as Aunt jane etc). All adults outside the immediate circle were addressed by Mrs (Pani) Smith and Mr (Pan) Jones if the surname was known (parents of friends, for example), and Mrs and Mr if it was a total stranger. But, once I was 18 -- and entitled to being pani myself -- things changed. Aunt Jane disappeared, being replaced by Jane -- that was done officially, at my 18th birthday party, where each of them in turn *offered me the priviledge of using their first name* (the older woman to a younger one). With the men it was a bit more awkward, because a man -- even an older one -- could not use a woman's first name without permisssion. So, at the same party, they would all address me as Pani Tamara (of that form in a minute) and I'd formally suggest they address me by my first name alone, as they had for the past 18 yrs :) And that introduced yet another form of address, that of the formal title (Pani) coupled with the first name rather than the surname. That's sort of a middle ground, between total formality and personal friendship. Co-workers of equal status, will after a while, be addressed by Pani/Pan+ First Name (the boss remains Pani/Pan + surname). All other rules remained the same; an older woman would have to initiate the loosening of formality, by calling me pani Tamara instead of Pani Przybyl, and I'd initiate the same by calling a man Pan Antoni, instead of Pan Kowalski. The next step -- if you got bit friendlier -- would be Pan/Pani+diminutive of the first name. Only if you became personal friends would the title be dropped. They're not old enough to address me by my first name. Addressing an elder by first name is a privilege, not a right. That's exactly how I feel, to this day. I can get incadescent with rage -- inside -- when some piss-panty (anyone more than 20 yrs younger than I am) calls me by my first name without first being granted the freedom to do so. Outside, I just ignore them the first two times and on the third I tell them my name is Mrs Duvall... So, they think I'm nuts? OK. But now I'm curious: the tendency in the US of children addressing elders by their first name; while I abhor it, I am curious to know if this is the case in other countries as well. Is this a US phenomenon, or does it exist elsewhere? Depends on the parents -- at least in Poland. Some (of my generation) have imbibed of the equality idea so deeply, that they encourage their children to use first names when addressing adults. To those, I usually say your Mama can call me 'Tamara', but to you I'm 'Mrs Duvall' until you're a bit older. Most, usually instruct their children to call me Aunt Tamara, and I let them drop the Aunt when they're about 16-17. Takes about 2-3 yrs before they get used to it, but eventually they do. I too have been thinking about Rosemary's posting: I was taught to address people by their given name family name and not to use titles as everyone is equal, and using titles denote inequality. Peculiarly, in Polish, it's the usage of the honorrifics (titles) that is a sign not only of respect but also of a level of equality. Almost until WWI, only the aristorcracy were addressed as Pan (master) and Pani (mistress) (their children were: Panicz for a boy, and Panienka or Panna for a girl). Everyone else, being of lower class, was addressed by the surname (in the case of males) or, in the case of females, either by the first name or by the father's or husband's surname (different endings for each). It was only after the WWI, that, with the emergence of the middle class, the honorifics began to be applied to them also (if only among themselves). That custom trickled down to the lower classes also, so that the servants and labourers (though not peasants), when talking to one another would use Pan and Pani before
[lace-chat] Surnames, PS
In Poland, the divorced woman always reverted to her maiden surname; the widow kept her husband's. Possibly because most divorces were initiated by males, who either wanted to repudiate the wife or who wanted to remarry and didn't want to look like bigamists :) But, under no circumstances did women acquire their husbands' *first* names to supplant those given to them by parents/church. I was totally unacquainted with that custom when I came here (even via literature), which is why I objected so strongly. -- Tamara P Duvallhttp://t-n-lace.net/ Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [lace-chat] Women's married names
Martha, The etiquette book I used to pore over in the 1960s specified that a married woman's letter should always be addressed to Mrs. John Doe. Only a divorced woman would become Mrs. Jane Doe; a widow would continue to use her husband's name. And that's how I still address letters to widows of my parents' generation. Following my Father's death in 1983, my mother absolutely refused to be known as anything other than Mrs. A. Keith COLLYER - that is in written correspondence, including the phone book - and she stayed that way until she too died in 1991. She loved him dearly and was only too proud to adopt his name and be known as his wife. The only time I recall hearing her referred to as Mrs. Jean COLLYER was when she was being acknowledged as the Church organist! David in Ballarat To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
