Profile of abuser was Re: L&I Did Simpson have help in cover-up?
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > No doubt the mention of homosexuality triggered a heated response and > mindless piling on. I am dubious myself about "latent homosexuality" being > a factor in spousal abuse - whatever the hell it is. I challenge most > anybody to even define what homosexuality is. Up to 50% of males have been > said to have had homosexual experiences. How the hell does one distinguish? > Count? > I would imagine that "latent homosexuality" means the person will not acknowledge thoughts etc. of erotic sensation towards the same sex?? But, to be honest, I have never heard it as a reason for spousal abuse. I think it is mentioned in regard to serial killers at time (Kathy, help on this one--I can't remember if that is still considered). > My guess - underline guess - is that what Dutton is talking about is really > feelings of inadequacy. It is underlined by the inability of a killer like > Simpson to have social intercourse with females rather than a distinct > characteristic. From my own experience male homosexuals as a group seem to > be particular attracted to females as social friends because of the lack of > a threat. I think it is the precise opposite with lesbians/ > > However, feelings of inadequacy are usually meant by most researchers I have read are really based on occupation and income--the wife earns more and the man's masculinity is based on the ole' provider role. But there may be more. As far as my own experience, my circle of friends includes both homosexuals, lesbians and heterosexuals and I haven't noticed any differences based on their sexual orientation. To me, homophobia produces so many of these myths that I wonder how some would explain any problem if they didn't have a scapegoat--others with a different sexual orientation than their own. jackief > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re: Local Murder (Austin) Update--Sue
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Good question about the holes. I wonder if they were counting entry and exit wounds?? Leave it to the prosecutor (he is the one that released the info on Mitchell). The defense contends that some of the wounds were counted more than once in the photos. The coroner said the wounds were so close they couldn't get pictures only showing one wound. The one that had already pled down for the crime said he blacked out from the time he got out of the truck until he heard the first shot. It sounds like there had been a feud going on between the victim and the defendant. The victim is suppose to have believed the defendant had stolen a 1/4 oz. of pot and had ordered a hit on him. The two defendants had stolen the guns from a locked cabinet in a locked room at the house where the party was being held. Sounds like the guns were big time guns--I think there was three of them mentioned. The defendant's girlfriend (mother of two of his children) said he admitted the killings to her. About the stats: I read something the other day that discussed the same thing, but, for the life of me, can't remember exactly which book. I would imagine little attention was paid to the majority of these individuals when they were children--social class bias could be a factor. And, as you mention, it doesn't seem as if exams of little ones are as thorough as they used to be. But, in defense of doctors, I would imagine the number of patients has a lot to do with this. And, we seem to take children to doctors more now as healthy children, rather than waiting until they are sick. But, you would think that the problems the people in this study found would be pretty apparent--but then, and this is not nice to say, the kids may have been considered part of the "throw away" population. Henslin (the author I am writing the testbank for his book) mentions more than once how our prisons merely reflect how we treat "certain" people in the larger society. If that be the case, then this kids were merely shuffled through the medical and educational system, with little attention paid to the difficulties they were facing. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > First off how in the world did the victim get 23 holes in him from 10 > shots? Just wondering. > > >From the stats you are quoting it sounds to me like there had better be > some serious rethinking on the part of people when it comes to kids in > general. There is something seriously wrong. IMO > > The low IQ's and physical/psychological problems should be something > that is caught early on in childhood and treated. Of course the > physical abuse should never be allowed to be covered up, either. > > I have noticed a lot of differences in the way that newborns are taken > care of now. When I had my children the docs kept track of their > development, and charted their progress. They were seen on a routine > basis, and actually examined. > > Yoko has taken Steven in twice for routine checkups and the first time, > very little if anything was even checked. The doc just left most of the > check up to the nurse, and even that was superficial. The second time > he was in at 2 mths, he was given his shots, and that was that. No > check up, nothing. > > I have a feeling that a lot of this is due to the HMO system that we > have now. > > I don't know what we can do about it, but I definitely can see where > something should be done, before it really is too late. If it isn't > already. :( > > Sue > > Hi Sue > > > > It is the gist of what is going on with the murder trial here. The > > events preceding the murder was a three-day drinking party, drug dealing > > and rumors of an ordered hit on one of the alleged killers. Erickson is > > one of the alleged killers and is presently on trial. the second > > defendant already pled guilty to a lessser charge and was a witness > > against him in trade for the lesser charge. Another witness was the 18 > > year old who hosted the party (wonder what she was offered?). She > > maintained the night of the shooting the two left the party and then > > came back in with different clothes on (all black). The two acted > > differently--the defendant acted incoherently and the convicted one > > acted very down and quiet. The prosecuting attorney said the victim had > > 23 holes in his body caused by 10 shots. The fiancee testified that she > > heard shots and that he wimpered and died. The defense says that there > > is no physical evidence linking them to the crime and no witnesses. > > That is it so far. > > > > This may be of interest to you:
Re: L&I Did Simpson have help in cover-up?
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Thanks Terry I did not recognize the name at all, especially in connection with latent homosexuality as a factor in spousal abuse. I remember now that you and Yvonne put the name in context. But, wasn't he going to address the issues that Lenore Waller was going to mention as being the reasons she felt OJ didn't fit the profile?? This old brain is trying to remember : ). I confess I really had not heard that latent homosexuality was ever a part of the profile of a domestic abuser, so was surprised by that one. But, thanks for letting me know who Dutton is--in fairness, will have to see if he says anything different than what my references outline. jackief [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > Donald Dutton is a Canadian psychologist. > > >From an old press clipping: > > The Families v. O.J. Simpson > > Judge Mulls Domestic Violence Profiling > [-] > Dutton, a research psychologist who specializes in spousal violence, > testified that he would tell the jury about the factors that can lead to > spousal homicide. Those characteristics include: previous violence in the > household; jealousy; estrangement; stalking; and threats. > > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Yvonne > > > >Where do I get this enlightening article. But, the first and foremost > >authority on what clinical analysis--domestic abuse, homosexuality, or ??? > I >have never heard of this man and would like to compare him to the > references >that I have. > > > >jackief > > You may have trouble with the spelling. I could find no popular works > offered by Amazon books but here are a couple of aging references: > > http://www.acjnet.org/docs/wifabopf.html > > "An average of 100 women a year are murdered by their male partners > according to Statistics Canada. Donald Dutton, Canadian author and > researcher, estimates that repeated, severe violence occurs in one in 14 > marriages." > > http://www.mhcva.on.ca/forconf.htm > >Simcoe County Mental Health Education > 1997 Forensic Conference Report > > [Forensic Conference Home] [SCMHE Home Page][Image] > > (This article was originally published in Entre Nous Autumn 1997) > > High ratings for this year's forensic conference > > [Image] By Marnie Rice > Director of Research > > [-] > Friday's sessions on treatment tissues were extremely well-received. Donald > Dutton discussed the profiles of men who abuse their female partners and > the treatment implications. > > [-] > Suggestions for speakers or topics would be welcomed: Please call Marnie > Rice at (705)549-3181 ext. 2614 > > [Dutton appeared on television a number of times and has gathered statistics > on deaths resulting from domestic violence. I have no idea of his > qualifications but people have rushed to damn someone they know nothing about.] > > >Yvonne wrote: > > > >> "Yvonne " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > >> Read Donald Dutten's studies on spousal abuse. He is the foremost > >> authority on clinical analyis. > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:15 PM > >> Subject: Re: L&I Did Simpson have help in cover-up? > >> > >> >Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > > >> > > >> >This is the most ludicrous thing I have read in a long time. I suggest > >> >you both learn a bit more about homosexuality and domestic violence > >> >before trying to theorize on something you have clearly shown you know > >> >nothing about. > >> > > >> >The easiest thing to do is to base knowledge on myths instead of facts. > >> >It's comments like this that just turn my stomach and clearly show me > >> >that the advancement of knowledge has a long way to go in human behavior > >> >no matter what people claim. > >> > > >> >Viola Provenzano wrote: > >> >> > >> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: > >> >> > >> >> Hi Yvonne, > >> >> > >> >> I've wondered about OJ's sexuality myself. Certainly his womanizing > >> >> could be classified as "\Don Juanism" which is a case of the male > >> >> fending off his desire for me
Re: Sue, Jury selected was Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue There is some evidence that copycats emerge when there is a lot of publicity, etc about crimes like the Jonesboro shooting. But, according to the article I want Ed to scan for Bill that looks at the death penalty--the evidence seems to show that potential killers sometimes are incited to go though with their crime after hearing about an execution. Strange, but there is a little more to it in regard tot their thoughts. I wonder if this is true about the killings by teens recently--the first shooting was a catalyst for others?? Just a thought. I saw the suicide also. I couldn't believe it. I had just walked in the door and Ed had MSNBC on the air so I happened to glance at the screen just as the guy jumped out of his truck. It looked like they were trying to pull the cameras away and someone was shouting to pull up the helicopter. So we weren't subjected to a close shot, but it was terrible enough. The case here is proceeding quite quickly. The girlfriends of all involved have all testified and the coroner (?) has testified showing all the gory details. It is expected next week that the defense will put on their case. I, honestly, wonder how they will answer the prosecution's case so far. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > Do you think that maybe all the publicity that the kids in Jonesboro and > in the other two shooting, could maybe be a part of the reason that > there is more of it lately than usual. There was another incident of it > in LA yesterday. One kid was hurt, and none were killed thank God. But > it seems like it is becoming a daily occurrence lately. Florida had one > yesterday too. :( > > Then we had the guy shoot his head off on the freeway in front of > millions the other day. Now that was weird. I was just kinda listening > to the chase, not paying any attention, when they said he had a gripe > with HMO's and was laying a sign out on the freeway. I started watching > to see what was going on (big mistake) and the next thing I knew his > truck caught on fire, and he blew his head off. > > I really don't think it was necessary for some of the cameras to be > right up there in his face when he did it either. They had plenty of > warning that this guy was going to do something. The part that really > got to me though, was I had it on a cartoon channel so Steven could > watch the motions on the screen, and they went away from the cartoons to > show this. I know it won't effect Steven in any way, he only likes to > watch the colors and movement, but how about the thousands of older > children who were watching those cartoons. > > The public has a right to know, but just how much do they need to see? > And how much of this stuff is causing more, and more of it to happen > because of the "publics right to know". I wonder. > > Sue > > > > -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Did Simpson have help in cover-up?
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Yvonne Where do I get this enlightening article. But, the first and foremost authority on what clinical analysis--domestic abuse, homosexuality, or ??? I have never heard of this man and would like to compare him to the references that I have. jackief Yvonne wrote: > "Yvonne " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Read Donald Dutten's studies on spousal abuse. He is the foremost > authority on clinical analyis. > -Original Message- > From: Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:15 PM > Subject: Re: L&I Did Simpson have help in cover-up? > > >Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >This is the most ludicrous thing I have read in a long time. I suggest > >you both learn a bit more about homosexuality and domestic violence > >before trying to theorize on something you have clearly shown you know > >nothing about. > > > >The easiest thing to do is to base knowledge on myths instead of facts. > >It's comments like this that just turn my stomach and clearly show me > >that the advancement of knowledge has a long way to go in human behavior > >no matter what people claim. > > > >Viola Provenzano wrote: > >> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: > >> > >> Hi Yvonne, > >> > >> I've wondered about OJ's sexuality myself. Certainly his womanizing > >> could be classified as "\Don Juanism" which is a case of the male > >> fending off his desire for men by bedding a never ending series of women, > >> preferably in one-night standsto show his contempt for the opposite sex. > >> His treatment of Nicole would certainly fit into this pattern. > >> > >> Vi > >> > >> "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. > >> __ > >> You wrote: > >> > >> <<>>. > >> . . > >-- > >Kathy E > >"I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow > >isn't looking too good for you either" > >http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law & Issues Mailing List > >http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories > >http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Did Simpson have help in cover-up?
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Kathy Thank you Kathy. I couldn't believe it when I read the posts, but thought for once I should keep my fingers from doing any talking jackief Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > This is the most ludicrous thing I have read in a long time. I suggest > you both learn a bit more about homosexuality and domestic violence > before trying to theorize on something you have clearly shown you know > nothing about. > > The easiest thing to do is to base knowledge on myths instead of facts. > It's comments like this that just turn my stomach and clearly show me > that the advancement of knowledge has a long way to go in human behavior > no matter what people claim. > > Viola Provenzano wrote: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: > > > > Hi Yvonne, > > > > I've wondered about OJ's sexuality myself. Certainly his womanizing > > could be classified as "\Don Juanism" which is a case of the male > > fending off his desire for men by bedding a never ending series of women, > > preferably in one-night standsto show his contempt for the opposite sex. > > His treatment of Nicole would certainly fit into this pattern. > > > > Vi > > > > "What the world needs more of is not love, but justice." Anon. > > __ > > You wrote: > > > > <<>>. > > . . > -- > Kathy E > "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow > isn't looking too good for you either" > http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law & Issues Mailing List > http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Welcome back was Re: L&I Lawyer in Brawley case jailed
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Oh, oh Welcome back Mac. Have missed your posts. jackief moonshine wrote: > moonshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > HI Mac, > > > > Nice to see you back! The bunker is a bit muddy but still impenetrable. > > As long as the sump pump continues to work we are still in business. > > > > Bill > > Evenin' Bill, A little leakage is nothing to worry about. My feet are dry and my >spirit > is soaring. > Maybe it's time for an offensive maneuver. > ...Mac > > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I NO MAIL
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bob I got your message. Have been wondering where you were. jackief Robert Blankenship wrote: > Robert Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi All > would someone let me know if this gets through.im not getting any mail > from the group. > bob,wa > > -- > I dont suffer from stress.I'M a carrier.. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jackie: Prisons for Profit
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > Why an apartment would allow you stay for a very extended period and > charge your expenses to the university, of course. Jackie says: Yeah, and where would my job be when I got back?? I keep wondering if they will change their mind, now that I submitted my budget for the sociology department. It increased about 1000 percent. Well, it never hurts a girl to ask--it is only the answer that hurts. > The market people guarantee that your fish will arrive in a frozen > condition. OF course, if it doesn't it's a long trip to fight with them > about it. > Jackie says: Well, just might try it though. Wouldn't Ed be surprised to get a great big fish!! I think I will see if I can get a picture of me pretending to have caught it--would be great for a laugh. > The Arch is a different experience from the Space Needle because it > affects people with claustrophopbia as well as agoraphobia. The little > capsules that seat four people that take you up to the top of the Arch > are very closed in. And it's a slow trip. Once on top there are only > four or five tiny windows to look out. And NO bathrooms! > Jackie says: Now I really am glad I didn't go in the Space Needle. It would not have been good publicity for St. Louis to take a blithering idiot who peed her pants after taking this slow trip through H#$% out of the Arch. But, think I will try the Space Needle as I don't imagine they will serve me dinner on the ground floor . > If I read about some doctor in Seattle being pummeled by a woman from > Minnesota I'll know that you and Ron met up and continued your > discussions that started on the law list. > That would be hilarious. Especially calling Ed for bail money. And then trying to explain to the judge it was just a difference of opinion about the electromagnetic fields in Seattle or some other earth shattering disagreement. jackief > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:17:58 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill > > > >What would I do with an apartment?? : O. Ron wrote that he lived > >nearby. > >It would be nice to meet his wife and him. Of course, I wonder if we > >would > >just swing into our latest e-mail debate in person . I'll take > >your > >word for it that I will not make a fool of myself going to the Space > >Needle. > >I just think of when we were in St. Louis and one of my friends and > >his wife > >wanted be to go with them to go up in the arch. I declined, thank > >god. They > >came back really white--it was terribly windy that day. All I could > >visualize is me stuck up there till the St Louis police, fireman, and > >white > >jackets came to rescue me. Glad to hear about the shipping of > >fish--will > >have to check out the price etc. Of course, it would probably thaw by > >the > >time we got it in Austin. > > > >jackief > > > >William J. Foristal wrote: > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > >> > >> Hi Jackie, > >> > >> I have always had a fear of heights, and I conquered the Space > >Needle > >> with no problem. :) Go for it! You'll love it. Also, the market > >folks > >> will pack your fish and ship it home for you. > >> > >> Perhaps you can meet up with Ron and he can give you the insider's > >tour > >> of the area. Mount Rainier is impressive too, so that could be > >another > >> side trip for you. Perhaps you can find an apartment there. :) > >> > >> Have fun! > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:34:44 -0500 Jackie Fellows > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> writes: > >> >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > > >> > > >> >Hi Bill > >> > > >> >Thanks for the hints--now will have to justify staying a few days > >to > >> >the > >> >spouse--have to figure out how to bring a big fish home in my purse > >> >(yah, > >> >sure). Got some stuff from the company putting on the workshop and > >> >wow I > >> >need a week or more. Wonder if the school would buy that I got > >> >stranded and > >> >I needed to stay awhile?? I really am excited that the school is > >> >willing to > >> >put out the money for me to have a
Teaching Critical Thinking was Re: L&I Back Home
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > Oh I love it when you ramble. :) You make some good points here. I > still remember a situation when I was in the grade school and the > supervisor of the nuns who were teaching in the grade school visited our > class. She said that she had two pies and wanted to know what was > bigger, 1/2 of pie one or 1/4 of pie 2. Of course the answer depends on > how big each pie is. This was my first example of critical thinking > although they did not call it that at the time. > > There is an entire series of questions that have been published in books > to illustrate something called lateral thinking. Some of them are quite > challenging to figure out. > > There was a group in town that gave a sports type presentation for kids. > Herschell Walker was on the panel and he said he doesn't preach to kids > about the evils of drugs and alcohol. The kids already know that. He > preaches about the positive side of life and how important it is to set > goals and take care of one's health. I think he has a point. > > Bill > Hi Bill Now there are some good examples and I guess that is what I am hoping is happening more in our elementary schools. Developing thinkers is gradual and it just seems sometimes like we don't do that. Asked my students about D.A.R.E. I asked if they were told anything about the lure of drugs or about the benefits of not using and they don't think that was ever mentioned, just the evils. So sad if this is so. Sort of like "Reefer Madness" only not so extreme. I am sure the kids are aware of people that use chemicals and those evils don't seem to happen. So then they may tune out all info. that they need to make good decisions. Sometimes I think we teach our children to be too compartmentalized. I see so many not being able to make connections between things that to them seem not to fit. I tried to connect police report writing (I have a number of law enforcement in class) to writing a one page summary of important points they found in an article. I felt like that comedian with the dummy who passes his hand over his head and says "Whooom." (or something like that). Oh well, always another day. jackief > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill Great, will try to send it this weekend. Things are crazy here, but will try like h### to get it sent. The reason I liked the article is that its conclusion is more realistic, IMO. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > I can get it on juno as long as it's a text format. Thanks! > > Bill > > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 05:23:18 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill > > > >Will ask Ed this morning if he has time to do it for me. I thought it > >was > >a good argument--a little different than most. It looks at whether > >executions do or do not increase homicides afterwards. If he can't > >today, > >will try to get it to you this weekend. > >You can get it with Juno, right. > > > >jackief > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Ron and Bill Either that or the town has succeeded in not letting it become a media circus. The first interview by the police chief seemed to indicate that most would not be willing to discuss it. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:29:22 -0700 "Ronald Helm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >"Ronald Helm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >>Nothing in any of the stories I read mentioned scopes. Perhaps the > >>accuracy was more a function of how closely the kids were clustered > >>together and the shooting was more directional than aimed. > >> > >>Bill > > > > > >Initial reports mentioned a 30.06 with a scope being used in > >Jonesboro, but > >I have seen nothing since the first day. The media around here sure > >lost > >interest rapidly. Ron > > HI Ron, > > Same here. Perhaps that's a disturbing sign that these things are > becoming so common place that they aren't hot news any more. > > Bill > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill Will ask Ed this morning if he has time to do it for me. I thought it was a good argument--a little different than most. It looks at whether executions do or do not increase homicides afterwards. If he can't today, will try to get it to you this weekend. You can get it with Juno, right. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > I'd appreciate reading it! Thanks! > > Bill > > On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:48:33 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill > > > >Ran across an interesting article on CP as a deterrent or a > >bruatalizing of > >our society. Written in 1980 however. But will see if Ed can scan it > >for me > >and will send to you in private e-mail if you are interested. They > >did some > >stuff that go right along with what you say about children. > > > >jackief > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jackie: Prisons for Profit
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill What would I do with an apartment?? : O. Ron wrote that he lived nearby. It would be nice to meet his wife and him. Of course, I wonder if we would just swing into our latest e-mail debate in person . I'll take your word for it that I will not make a fool of myself going to the Space Needle. I just think of when we were in St. Louis and one of my friends and his wife wanted be to go with them to go up in the arch. I declined, thank god. They came back really white--it was terribly windy that day. All I could visualize is me stuck up there till the St Louis police, fireman, and white jackets came to rescue me. Glad to hear about the shipping of fish--will have to check out the price etc. Of course, it would probably thaw by the time we got it in Austin. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > I have always had a fear of heights, and I conquered the Space Needle > with no problem. :) Go for it! You'll love it. Also, the market folks > will pack your fish and ship it home for you. > > Perhaps you can meet up with Ron and he can give you the insider's tour > of the area. Mount Rainier is impressive too, so that could be another > side trip for you. Perhaps you can find an apartment there. :) > > Have fun! > > Bill > > On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:34:44 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill > > > >Thanks for the hints--now will have to justify staying a few days to > >the > >spouse--have to figure out how to bring a big fish home in my purse > >(yah, > >sure). Got some stuff from the company putting on the workshop and > >wow I > >need a week or more. Wonder if the school would buy that I got > >stranded and > >I needed to stay awhile?? I really am excited that the school is > >willing to > >put out the money for me to have a wonderful time as well as learning > >some > >great stuff. Of course, I have to have a training session for faculty > >when > >I get back, but that is o.k. with me. I have saved your message and > >will > >take it with me. Still a little apprehensive about the space > >needle--forget > >the view, I want to sit away from the windows. > > > >jackief > > > > > > > >William J. Foristal wrote: > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > >> > >> And > >> >Seattle > >> >> is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. My > >> >registration is > >> >> verified and the secretary is making plane reservations. Now all > >I > >> >have to > >> >> do is go to desensitization training so I can go up in the Space > >> >Needle and > >> >> attend the dinner > >> >> > >> >> jackief > >> > >> Hi Jackie, > >> > >> You'll love Seattle! And the Space Needle is no problem! Just > >close > >> your eyes when you are on the elevator, if it bothers you. The view > >is > >> great from the top. Even better than the CN Tower in Toronto, IMO. > >> > >> If you have a day or two extra you should make sure you get down to > >the > >> market. Even if you don't buy anything it's fun to watch the guys > >throw > >> those huge fish around as they wrap them up for customers. And a > >REALLY > >> fun trip would be to take a ferry to Victoria, BC on Vancouver > >Island. > >> Go to the Empress Hotel for a touch of Britain and attend the > >afternoon > >> tea. Then go see Bouchart Gardens. They have newer boats that can > >make > >> the crossing in about four hours. But you still need two days to > >spare > >> to make it worth while. > >> > >> Have a great time! > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >_ > >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > > > > >-- > >In the sociology room the children learn > >that even dreams are colored by your perspective >
Re: L&I Back Home
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill What you say is true that people do need to ecourage critical thinking. However, IMO, we start to late in teaching the fundamentals of critical thinking. From grades 1-2, children are rewarded for being passive, sponges soaking up information. This is needed I grant you, but during that oh so important time in human development, the children are also internalizing the values they wil base their opinions, etc. on. Often these values are unquestioningly accepted simply because parents, teachers, etc. say it is so. Then they hit college and the first day the prof comes in and wants them to do critical thinking. What in heavens name do we expect--Voila, instant critical thinker?? I am not blaming teachers in the elementary and secondary schools. They have to teach them an information base to start from as well as be expected to teach a whole lot more. I just wonder if there isn't another way that we can encourage that in the younger grades. And I don't have any answers. I think of some of the programs we have for trying to instill moral values in the elementary schools and I wonder what information they receive. This might be a good opportunity to start to encourage critical thinking, if that is not being done. For example, does the D.A.R.E. program only present the "evilness" of drugs without the scare tactics and do they really explain the lure of drug use?? Do they make a blanket generalization of drugs? Do they gloss over the effects of alcohol? Do we as a society really set the stage for critical rational thinking?? We have laws that put marijuana distributors in jail for longer terms without possiblilty of parole that we do murderers in some states. We infringe on spousal rights of not testifying in drug cases through coercion. And, then we wonder why children treat killing so lightly. And we wonder why they learn that bullying can get the job done. Sorry to ramble on so. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > HI Jackie, > > I think society needs to learn from our mistakes of the past. For > example, Lt. William Calley was looked at as a hero by many people after > the My Lai massacre. Why? Because the people he murdered were Vietnamese > and people found it easier to consider all Vietnamese as a likely enemy > even though we were supposedly over there to help the South Vietnamese. > And the real hero, the guy in the helicopter who stopped the killings was > investigated as a traitor. Now, at long last, he's being given the > recognition as a hero that he deserves. We need to encourage everyone to > become more skilled at critical thinking and not to judge actions based > on who is involved on the various sides of that action. > > Bill > > On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:44:40 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >-- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
L&I RE: OOPs--forgot the citation
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Here is the citation: Neuropsychiatric, Psychoeducational, and Family Characteristics of 14 Juveniles Condemned to Death in the United States," American Journal of Psychiatry 145 (May 1988), 584-589; Alsion Bass, "Head Injuries Found in Young Killers," Boston Globe, June 20, 1988, pp. 53, 55. This was in Conklin's Criminology 6th ed., 1998. jackief -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
L&I Re: Local Murder (Austin) Update--Sue
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue It is the gist of what is going on with the murder trial here. The events preceding the murder was a three-day drinking party, drug dealing and rumors of an ordered hit on one of the alleged killers. Erickson is one of the alleged killers and is presently on trial. the second defendant already pled guilty to a lessser charge and was a witness against him in trade for the lesser charge. Another witness was the 18 year old who hosted the party (wonder what she was offered?). She maintained the night of the shooting the two left the party and then came back in with different clothes on (all black). The two acted differently--the defendant acted incoherently and the convicted one acted very down and quiet. The prosecuting attorney said the victim had 23 holes in his body caused by 10 shots. The fiancee testified that she heard shots and that he wimpered and died. The defense says that there is no physical evidence linking them to the crime and no witnesses. That is it so far. This may be of interest to you: This is from one of the new books. 1987 they studies 14 death-row inmates who had been convicted of crimes committed when they were under the age of 18 and had been presented to the Supremem Court. The inmates had been convicted of murders committed when they were between the ages of nearly 16 to nearly 17. Mean was 16 1/2. In addition to these 14, there were an additional 23 inmates under sentence of death who had committed criman as juveniles Of the 14: 1. 8 had suffered injuries to the CNS sever enought to result in hospitalization and/or indentation of the cranium 2. 9 had major neurological impairment 3. 7 were psychotic or had been diagnosed as psychotic earlier in childhood, 4 had histories indicating severe mood disorder and the other 3 experienced occasional paranoid ideation 4. only 2 had IQs above 90 (which is below average); only 3 were reading at grade level 5. 12 had been brutally, physically abused and 5 had been sodomized by older male relatives. Most of the juveniles had tried to hide evidence of their problem and concealed their parents' brutality. parents also hid the evidence and sometimes pressured child's attorney to keep this info secret in only 5 of the 14 cases were pretrail evaluationsof any kind carried out on the youths. Those evaluations done were usually perfunctory and yielded inadequate data on the juveniles' neuropsychiatric and cognitive functioning Just a little something to think about when people feel that they made the choice to commit the crime so now should face the punishment. One reason the other 23 were not included in the study was that only 4 states would allow the research to be done--something else to ponder. jackief -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: [Fwd: L&I Noe: Update]
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >Hi Ron > > > >Yes, but there is also a common phrase in statistics--when you see an outlier, > >it is best to examine it closely--it may hold the key to a lot of things we > >don't understand at the present time. It seems that in the medical profession > >it is the anomaly that often leads to discoveries in medicine, just like in any > >other area of life. I guess just because it looks like a duck and sounds > like >a >duck, it doesn't mean automatically it is a duck. > > > >jackief > > IOW there really is a platypus. > > When it was first described it was considered hilarious. > Best, Terry > Hi Terry You got it!! jackief > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Jonesboro--guns was L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Terry The neighbors like the dogs--beside the insurance was before we moved into this place. It may be regional, but we were told we would have to pay higher rates if we owned a German Shepard, a pit bull, a rothweiler, or a Doberman. And, Dobe and chows are no harder to read than other dogs, really (at least if you are a dog person). Dobermans do not appear friendly when their ears are cropped--but just see one with a lop-eared or ears that don't stand--they look very friendly. The cropping is done for more than one reason--alert, aloof appearance being one. Many dogs have a bad "rap" when it is the owners who are the problem not the breed of the dog as you know with owning a German Shepard. But it is interesting to know that our part of the country may have different regulations for insurance and something that may be worth looking into on our part. So thanks for the info. jackief [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hi Sue and Jackie, > > It may just be a peculiarity of Jackie's insurance company. Or maybe it is > regional. We have a German Shepherd pup that will not raise our rates. If > we had a pit bull it would not either but I am told if we lived in New York > City rather than upstate we would pay dearly for insurance on a pit bull > because of the New York City ordinances. I would guess Jackie's neighbors > don't like dogs. > > I have never had trouble with pit bulls. Unlike, say, dobermans they always > seemed quite friendly. Dobermans (and chows) are hard to read. > > >Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Jackie: > > > >It must be a state thing, because we have a Chow with an attitude. They > >are rated up there as being not too nice with outsiders, and we don't > >pay extra on the insurance for her. In fact I don't even remember being > >asked if we had a dog or not. > > > >Sue > >> Hi Ron > >> > >> That is because you don't have one of the guard breeds. We are > >> automatically jumped up for insurance just because of the breed--doesn't > >> matter if they are trained or anything. They might bite a robber so > >> therefore we pay more. We can't list them as an alarm system even though > >> our system works before the robber enters :( > >> > >> jackief > > > > > Best, Terry > > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Welcome to two members
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Kelly and Mike Welcome aboard!! Hope you enjoy the list. jackief Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi all :) Please welcome Mike and Kelly to the law list :) > > Mike sent me the Noe Update that I posted to the list and he then > joined the list to answer any questions anyone has concerning this :) > > Kelly is a friend of mine that used to lurk on this list but she had to > unsub during finals. She has now rejoined us :) > > I hope the two of you enjoy the list, if you have any questions feel > free to ask :) > -- > Kathy E > "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow > isn't looking too good for you either" > http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law & Issues Mailing List > http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Wife wins $45 Million
Hi Ron Not always, check your history. That is why in most cases women now get the benefit--payment for past injustices, maybe. jackief Ronald Helm wrote: "Ronald Helm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Lets hear it for the Judge. It's about time they came to their senses and >do the right thing for the wives. >Len > Obviously Len has not been in the dame divorce court that I had the opportunity of viewing. Women have always had the advantage in a divorce court :-)  Ron  99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues  -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.   Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Â
Re: [Fwd: L&I Noe: Update]
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ronald Helm wrote: > " > >TTFN > > Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > There is also a commonly used phrase in medicine, used to emphasize the fact > that common things are common, rare things are rare. Child abuse is VERY > common, mitochondrial disease is EXTREMELY rare. "When you hear the sounds > of galloping hooves, think of horses, not zebras! Ron > Hi Ron Yes, but there is also a common phrase in statistics--when you see an outlier, it is best to examine it closely--it may hold the key to a lot of things we don't understand at the present time. It seems that in the medical profession it is the anomaly that often leads to discoveries in medicine, just like in any other area of life. I guess just because it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it doesn't mean automatically it is a duck. jackief > 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Seattle Trip
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Ron Should I hitch-hike?? I am flying there remember for a short trip--not worth renting a car. You and your wife could always come to Seattle that weekend. Read the post--seems I like healthy places. Live in the 2nd healthiest state for people and now will visit the number 1 city for women. I have all the luck. jackief Ronald Helm wrote: > "Ronald Helm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >>Seattle > >>> is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. > > Another beautiful side trip would be to visit Ron about 30 miles South of > the Space Needle. Did you see the article I posted a couple days back, that > Seattle was the top rated city for women in the country. Ron > > 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
L&I Re: Attachment Disorder was
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > These kids are probably lost. :( > > Sue > Hi Sue The sad thing is that you are probably right about them being lost--such a sad thing to admit though. Not understanding the problem is a big part of the problem--how do you assist someone when you really don't know what to do, except trial and error. jackief. > -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Back Home
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill I want to say that your post was right on target. You went right to the core--the standards must apply to all as you point out. If the rational model is to be the one people choose to use in defending "just deserts" punishment, then the rest of the assumptions that go along with that model must also be subscribed too. Great post!! jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > HI Sue, > > It is ironic, IMO, that law and order people who talk long and loud about > people being responsible for their actions and paying the price for their > actions when they are against the law would be so quick to try to defend > the cops in this situation and say that they were merely doing their > jobs. These cops lost their careers and had their lives ruined because > of THEIR actions and THEIR choices. Just like a drug user loses a career > and ruins his life because of HIS choices. To condemn the druggie and > support the cops is the height of hypocrisy, IMO. > > Bill > > On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:19:06 -0700 Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Kathy: > > > >There were enoough cops there that they could have gotten him without > >beating him up, IMO. > > > >However, I do wish that they had shown the public the first portion of > >the tape a long time ago. It does show him continuing to get up even > >after being "kicked" down more than once. > > > >Sue > >> Hi Joan :) > >> > >> I disagree with you :) If you remember a couple of years ago I > >stated > >> that the problem was in the training of the LAPD according to their > >> training they were following the procedures used at the time. OTOH > >that > >> does not lift the responsibility off of the officers and what they > >did, > >> nor does it lift the responsibility off of RK and what he did. > > > >-- > >Two rules in life: > > > >1. Don't tell people everything you know. > >2. > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jackie: Prisons for Profit
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill Thanks for the hints--now will have to justify staying a few days to the spouse--have to figure out how to bring a big fish home in my purse (yah, sure). Got some stuff from the company putting on the workshop and wow I need a week or more. Wonder if the school would buy that I got stranded and I needed to stay awhile?? I really am excited that the school is willing to put out the money for me to have a wonderful time as well as learning some great stuff. Of course, I have to have a training session for faculty when I get back, but that is o.k. with me. I have saved your message and will take it with me. Still a little apprehensive about the space needle--forget the view, I want to sit away from the windows. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > And > >Seattle > >> is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. My > >registration is > >> verified and the secretary is making plane reservations. Now all I > >have to > >> do is go to desensitization training so I can go up in the Space > >Needle and > >> attend the dinner > >> > >> jackief > > Hi Jackie, > > You'll love Seattle! And the Space Needle is no problem! Just close > your eyes when you are on the elevator, if it bothers you. The view is > great from the top. Even better than the CN Tower in Toronto, IMO. > > If you have a day or two extra you should make sure you get down to the > market. Even if you don't buy anything it's fun to watch the guys throw > those huge fish around as they wrap them up for customers. And a REALLY > fun trip would be to take a ferry to Victoria, BC on Vancouver Island. > Go to the Empress Hotel for a touch of Britain and attend the afternoon > tea. Then go see Bouchart Gardens. They have newer boats that can make > the crossing in about four hours. But you still need two days to spare > to make it worth while. > > Have a great time! > > Bill > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill Ran across an interesting article on CP as a deterrent or a bruatalizing of our society. Written in 1980 however. But will see if Ed can scan it for me and will send to you in private e-mail if you are interested. They did some stuff that go right along with what you say about children. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > HI Sue, > > Exactly, and that is why executing kids will never serve as a deterrent > to other kids who may act on their compulsions. Now, keeping guns away > from them would certainly be a better idea. And I DO support more severe > penalties in the form of confinement in an appropriate institution for a > very long time. > > Bill > > On Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:08:13 -0700 Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill: > > > >Ouch!! Thank God that was all that happened. I did some pretty > >stupid > >things, similar to that, when I was a kid too. Sometimes I think it > >is > >a miracle that as many kids live to see adulthood as they do. :) > > > >You said the same thing that I was trying to say. I don't think that > >these kids even think of the consequences of shooting that gun. Death > >to a kid really has no meaning. They don't understand that dead is > >dead, and there is no changing it. And the movies and television > >don't > >make it any easier for them to understand. The "dead" guy always gets > >up and stars in another movie. :( > > > >Sue > >> > >> HI Sue, > >> > >> I think they knew that something horrible was going to happen if > >they > >> squeezed that trigger, but another part of the child-like mind can > >be > >> very compulsive. And the connection between squeezing that trigger > >as > >> well as the distance between them and the victims was not enough to > >stop > >> that compulsive action. Once the first shot was fired I imagine the > >rest > >> were easy. I think everyone can remember foolish and compulsive > >actions > >> done as a child. I got hit by a car once because of one when I was > >13. > >> Since there was never any traffic at this one intersection of two > >alleys > >> I used to ride my bike at full speed right through it. I knew it > >was > >> stupid and dangerous and even remember the thrill of the danger and > >> knowing it was stupid. Sure enough, one day there was a car and > >bang, I > >> went sailing throught the air. Luckily, all I got was a sprained > >wrist > >> and a small gouge on my leg. And a very valuable lesson. > >> > >> Bill > > > > > >-- > >Two rules in life: > > > >1. Don't tell people everything you know. > >2. > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jackie: Prisons for Profit
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Is he taking Microcase?? Or IntraCal? Gosh, I just put together a Powerpoint presentation and figure I am a genius (hahah). I have to justify my 500 percent increase in budget for the year--so the dean said I should show them I do know a little about the computer. Sure wish Kathy was close--I would have her come and present the stuff. I have visions of really doing a "Bill Gates demonstration of Windows98" jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > You are going just at the right time of the year too. :) It won't be > too cold, and it will be a lot cooler than most of the rest of the > country. :) > > Let us know about the books and what is in them when you find out > yourself. > > My husband is taking a lot of those computer courses now too. He gets > to go to Fullerton to do it though. :( No space needle or monorail > there. :) > > Sue > > Hi Sue > > > > Will stay at the Westem (??--stuff is at school) and it sounds like a fairly nice > > place. It is a restored hotel I think with all the older fixtures, etc. It says > > I can take the monorail to the Space Needle. I go the second weekend in July. I > > am excited about going as everyone says it is beautiful, but they are sending me > > to a computer workshop (teehee) so I can set up a computer-based curriculum for > > the department. Silly them . > > > > I will be glad to share the info from the books. Have a real mixture--race > > relations, cj, social problems and of course intro for sociology and psych > > includes general, developmental, and abnormal. I have been looking at one of the > > criminology books and I really like his approach--he has finally written a truly > > interdisciplinary book--the approach some of us have been asking the publishers to > > get for years. I like the fact this author is using economics, law, biology etc. > > in addition to the two most often used: sociology and psychology. > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Sue, Jury selected was Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue The jury was selected and opening remarks will begin. Nothing in paper today about this at all. Read about the selection process for hiring a new president for the college and that the state university faculty belonging to IFO have voted to authorize a strike. Our union has already settled ours so here we don't worry. Yes it is nice not to have the headlines filled with violence and in some respects to read about the positive things happening in the community. But, sometimes it seems like they think if they put their head in the sand, all the unpleasantness will go away. I wish there was a better balance in the newspapers. I would know nothing about the Clinton, little about Jonesboro, etc. if I relied on this paper for my news. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > I would give anything to have our front page have this kind of earth > shattering news. I really would. > > Granted it would be kinda boring, but at least you can go to the store > after dark without being car jacked. You might have a pizza thrown at > you but no bullets. :) > > If you hear anything let me know though. > > Sue > > Hi Sue > > > > Really difficult to get news about trials around here. Here is an example of the >news > > items in our Sunday paper: Southern MN makes a great place to be in the golf >business; > > Leighton blames House; City seeking to end permit violations. And, lucky us, we >are > > getting a new pizza place. Really earth shattering news, right. Don't know the >details on > > the woman in Iowa--just caught a news blurp on the tv. Oh well, at least the >crime rate is > > low here. > > > > jackief > > > > Sue Hartigan wrote: > > > > > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > Hi Jackie: > > > > > > Yes, please let me know what is going on. > > > > > > Sometimes these little trials can turn out to be more interesting than > > > the big ones. :) How did the woman kill the baby, and why? > > > > > > Sue > > > > Hi Sue > > > > > > > > It is not a thriller, so won't make national news : ). From what I gather, >two young > > > > adult males went over to another house and went in and killed another male. >It has > > > > not been a headliner so far until they picked the jury last week. Will see if >they > > > > have anything on it from now on and let you know more details. I think the >two stole > > > > some guns, and used one of them in killing the guy. The other case that is >coming up > > > > is a northern Iowa woman who is on trial for murdering her infant I believe. >Haven't > > > > kept up with stuff--it is mid-term and I finally got the quarterly sent >off--now it > > > > is only the testbank deadline that will be driving me. I feel like Joan must >feel at > > > > tax time . > > > > > > > > jackief > > > > > > -- > > > Two rules in life: > > > > > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > > > 2. > > > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > -- > > In the sociology room the children learn > > that even dreams are colored by your perspective > > > > I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Jonesboro--guns was L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Ron That is because you don't have one of the guard breeds. We are automatically jumped up for insurance just because of the breed--doesn't matter if they are trained or anything. They might bite a robber so therefore we pay more. We can't list them as an alarm system even though our system works before the robber enters :( jackief Ronald Helm wrote: > "Ronald Helm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > But, I will stick with the dogs, even if > insurance is higher. > > Your insurance is higher because you own dogs? My insurance carries no > canine clause. Ron > > 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jackie: Prisons for Profit
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Will stay at the Westem (??--stuff is at school) and it sounds like a fairly nice place. It is a restored hotel I think with all the older fixtures, etc. It says I can take the monorail to the Space Needle. I go the second weekend in July. I am excited about going as everyone says it is beautiful, but they are sending me to a computer workshop (teehee) so I can set up a computer-based curriculum for the department. Silly them . I will be glad to share the info from the books. Have a real mixture--race relations, cj, social problems and of course intro for sociology and psych includes general, developmental, and abnormal. I have been looking at one of the criminology books and I really like his approach--he has finally written a truly interdisciplinary book--the approach some of us have been asking the publishers to get for years. I like the fact this author is using economics, law, biology etc. in addition to the two most often used: sociology and psychology. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > That is great. When do you go and for how long. I have never been to > Seattle but have heard that it is absolutely beautiful. The further > north you go from here, the prettier it gets. Although I haven't been > any further north than Sacramento, I agree. > > You have to share what is in the new books. > > I'm glad that story could help. I thought that you would like it. > Answers some of the questions I had about private prisons anyway. > > Sue > > Hi Sue > > > > This is fantastic!! Thanks a lot. I was amazed at the population > > statistics atlas. I see MN has one of the lowest prison ratio's per > > popuation than almost all the other states. I wonder if that will change if > > the Prairie Correctional Facility gets full. That is the CCA one shown in > > the map. They have prisoners from Puerto Rico. What is a telling thing > > though is that about every 3 months when I was at Concordia I received job > > vacancy notices to post for my cj students. Expansion or rapid turnover in > > help? > > > > Sue, I am so excited--Ms. Santa Claus was here and left me the most > > wonderful books and goodies. Have a new Abnormal Psych book + Developmental > > Psych book and lots of cj and soc. things. Love that woman!! And Seattle > > is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. My registration is > > verified and the secretary is making plane reservations. Now all I have to > > do is go to desensitization training so I can go up in the Space Needle and > > attend the dinner > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Attachment Disorder was L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sue Hartigan wrote: > It really is sad because some of these children that were adopted are > now in orphanage like homes, and probably will remain there the rest of > their lives. I only wonder what they will be like when they are > released amongst society. > > Sue Hi Sue And I bet the children are not going to get the help they truly need. I guess it is a lengthly and expensive process. I have no idea of the treatment process, but there is some stuff on the Internet about therapies, but I would guess they are really expensive. jackief -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Really difficult to get news about trials around here. Here is an example of the news items in our Sunday paper: Southern MN makes a great place to be in the golf business; Leighton blames House; City seeking to end permit violations. And, lucky us, we are getting a new pizza place. Really earth shattering news, right. Don't know the details on the woman in Iowa--just caught a news blurp on the tv. Oh well, at least the crime rate is low here. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > Yes, please let me know what is going on. > > Sometimes these little trials can turn out to be more interesting than > the big ones. :) How did the woman kill the baby, and why? > > Sue > > Hi Sue > > > > It is not a thriller, so won't make national news : ). From what I gather, two >young > > adult males went over to another house and went in and killed another male. It has > > not been a headliner so far until they picked the jury last week. Will see if they > > have anything on it from now on and let you know more details. I think the two >stole > > some guns, and used one of them in killing the guy. The other case that is coming >up > > is a northern Iowa woman who is on trial for murdering her infant I believe. >Haven't > > kept up with stuff--it is mid-term and I finally got the quarterly sent off--now it > > is only the testbank deadline that will be driving me. I feel like Joan must feel >at > > tax time . > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Jonesboro--guns was L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Personally I will stick with my dog. She is actually better than any > gun, IMO. > > Sue > Hi Sue I don't like having guns around either, even though I do shoot at times. But, like your house, ours are all locked away and dismantled. But, I will stick with the dogs, even if insurance is higher. jackief > > > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jackie: Prisons for Profit
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > I just found a terrific story. There are all kinds of graphs, and side > stories to this on the site. If you are interested go to > http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/prison/prison_intro.html > > It really is good. If you can't get it let me know and I will go after > it for you. > > Sue > Hi Sue This is fantastic!! Thanks a lot. I was amazed at the population statistics atlas. I see MN has one of the lowest prison ratio's per popuation than almost all the other states. I wonder if that will change if the Prairie Correctional Facility gets full. That is the CCA one shown in the map. They have prisoners from Puerto Rico. What is a telling thing though is that about every 3 months when I was at Concordia I received job vacancy notices to post for my cj students. Expansion or rapid turnover in help? Sue, I am so excited--Ms. Santa Claus was here and left me the most wonderful books and goodies. Have a new Abnormal Psych book + Developmental Psych book and lots of cj and soc. things. Love that woman!! And Seattle is a "go" for me. The school is definitely sending me. My registration is verified and the secretary is making plane reservations. Now all I have to do is go to desensitization training so I can go up in the Space Needle and attend the dinner jackief Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Attachment Disorder was L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue and Vi I guess it is a really serious problem and may explain the "real" abuse background cases for a few of the defenses. I mean very few, however. I talked to a mother who has a child with this disorder after learning of it. And I watched the documentary a while back on the adopted Bosnia children. The mother told me even psyciatrists are somewhat taken aback about these children. This mother and her husband are what you would consider "ideal" parents. They adopted a sister and brother who had been severely abused and neglected before being taken away from the biological mother. The professionals say it is not adoption, per se, but the conditions leading up to adoption that can contribute to this problem. When you know what obstacles these little ones are facing from the abuse happening so very young, then the use of abuse by some really trivializes those who really have been abused. IMO, there are some who the abuse defense does provide at least an explanation for their act[s], but I can't buy many of the abuse as an excuse defenses that are presently happening in our court system. A child who has been severely abused at the very young age when development is so crucial is a far cry from an adult who has been abused after this crucial development period. The young child only has the basic coping strategies; the older adult has, hopefully, developed coping strategies to overcome the abuse, especially today when there is so many avenues of help. Sorry, I got carried away--I just get angry with people using an excuse which results in so many people automatically turning off the empathy that should be given to "real" victims. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > When I first heard about this I thought that it was just another abuse > excuse thing. Then they had some shows on about the babies that were > being adopted from Bosnia. These kids really have a very serious > problem, and one that the adopting parents can't seem to deal with, or > get any help for. > > It really is a serious problem. > > Sue > > > > Hi Vi > > > > Just leaving for work so don't have a chance to really post. Will get back > > to you tonight with the info. There is a number of websites dealing with > > this disorder. Some of the background contributing to the disorder are > > severe abuse and neglect as infants, etc. They have found the problem, with > > people who adopt severely neglected infants--but't I don't want anyone to get > > the impression that this will result if a person is adopted--this is not the > > case. The child is quite adept at "playing the game" of bonding, but it is a > > facade, according to the woman I talked to. Will try to talk to her again > > today and get more info. > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > HI Jackie: > > Well don't leave me up in the air. :) What murder case have you got > there. Sue Hi Sue It is not a thriller, so won't make national news : ). From what I gather, two young adult males went over to another house and went in and killed another male. It has not been a headliner so far until they picked the jury last week. Will see if they have anything on it from now on and let you know more details. I think the two stole some guns, and used one of them in killing the guy. The other case that is coming up is a northern Iowa woman who is on trial for murdering her infant I believe. Haven't kept up with stuff--it is mid-term and I finally got the quarterly sent off--now it is only the testbank deadline that will be driving me. I feel like Joan must feel at tax time . jackief Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Jonesboro--guns was L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue I don't imagine it is being around guns that is the problem, it is probaby how they are regarded in the household in some cases. I heard (gossip, again) that the guns were left lying around sometimes at Mitchell's house. This is definitely a "no-no" around here with most parents. I guess the idea is to teach the child respect for what the gun can be used for and lying around is not teaching the child to respect what can occur. Don't know if that has a bearing or not. I just know that most of the kids around here who have been exposed to guns since they were small are very cautious and obey the rules of safe gunhandling. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > Obviously at least one of these kids was around guns most, if not all of > his life. The pictures of him as a "baby" in fatigues with a rifle were > on the front pages of TIME and Newsweek. :( > > Sue > > Hi Bill > > > > I don't know but I don't think that would really be considered amazing in > > this area and possibly the South. Kids are taught gun shooting and safety at > > a very early age here. This is hunting and fishing country, remember. And > > Mitch spent his summers here, even after going south. And it sounds like > > Drew's family were also around guns. I think that is why it was such a > > shock--guns are more often seen as recreational rather than for protection > > and power. > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Furhman off probation
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Kathy I don't know about other states, but in MN for first-time offenders who are not seen as a risk, they do the following:. 1. If all other conditions of probation have been fulfilled (fines paid, restitution made, etc.), then the offender, on advice of probation officer, may ask the court for early release off probation. Of course, there is a thorough investigation of what the offender has been doing since the conviction. 2. The records are not really expunged or erased totally. The crime the offender is convicted of is reduced to a misdemeanor and the felong records, I believe, are sealed except for certain instances--commission of another crime is one reason. Then the prior felony is used in sentencing. The cases I am familiar with are those dealing with first-time, small-change dealers who have not committed prior offenses, there are no other crimes connected to the "bust" (robbery, burglary, shoplifting), and the police and prosecuting attorney feel that the person will learn from this mistake and by reducing the crime from a felony to a misdemeanor the person can get on with his/her life in a positive way, rather than slipping back into the criminal subculture. This procedure may have changed, however, with the increase in drug convictions that is currently occurring and they may no longer do this. Also, in the cases I know about, this is an incentive that is recommended at the sentencing and is put right into the record as part of the proceedings. The conviction is always there in the background though and can be made public if the offender again breaks the law. The cases I know about have been successful in straightening our some people before it is too late for them. This procedure is not used often--but only in cases, the police and prosecutors feel that the offender has learned from his/her mistake and will benefit by not having a felony holding them back from being responsible citizens. However, to have it expunged, the offender must still go through the Pardon procedure. This is a lengthly procedure and the Board of Pardons rarely considers it until 5 to 10 years have elapsed and the person really shows change. Before a pardon, if it is granted, the person is subject to the same restrictions as any other felon has in regard to rights to vote, have firearms, etc. even though the conviction has been dropped to a misdemeanor. So this might be in Furhman's transcript of his sentencing. I would imagine that this was done so that he could ask for a pardon and have his rights restored, if this is like the procedure in MN was a few years back. jackie Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > By what authority did this judge have the right/power to expunge MF's > record and discontinue his probation? MF pled guilty to a felony I am > truly interested on how this judge threw out that plea and his > reasoning. Was this a CA judge or a Idaho judge? Is there any more > information on this? > -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Perjury
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > ROTFLMAO! (Psst, Jackie, usually at the end of this speech the bartender > hollers out "Last call, everybody!") > > Best, > > Bill > Hi Bill Thanks for filling me in--I forgot--I didn't hear the jukebox playing. jackief > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > The > thing that amazed me was the apparent accuracy of the shooters. Not many > shots missed. > > Bill > Hi Bill I don't know but I don't think that would really be considered amazing in this area and possibly the South. Kids are taught gun shooting and safety at a very early age here. This is hunting and fishing country, remember. And Mitch spent his summers here, even after going south. And it sounds like Drew's family were also around guns. I think that is why it was such a shock--guns are more often seen as recreational rather than for protection and power. jackief > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > > > Hi Jackie, > > Exactly! Using their own logic it is obvious that Susan McDougal's > refusal to testify is more indicative of Clinton's innocence than his > guilt. > > Bill > Hi Bill I forget not all of us have that clear, lucid logical mind--only Republicans disguised as Democrats?? . I'm still wondering what voting or not voting for Clinton has to do with being logical? Liking or believing Clinton or Starr really isn't part of the equation. Once I figue that out then I too might be logical . All I know is that both Clinton and Starr have a vested interested in the result of this political farce. Seems it is just like statistics--you can find statistics to support both sides of an issue jackief > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Training/breaking was Re: L&I Child death sentence
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Jackie We have come to the same conclusion. It is really quite funny to see though. We have been blest with (take that with a grain of salt) the two most talkingest dobes I have ever seen or heard about. It is almost like having another person to converse with (teehee) jackief Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie :) > > Sounds to me like you dog was just letting you know he was having the > last word! LOL > > -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I "Lunatic Fringe of Psychotherapy" according to Lawyer
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Kathy Thanks for the info. I didn't think they could prescribe, and I wonder what was wrong with the MD or psychiatrist if he/she wasn't aware of how the drugs may have been used. This isn't the first case though in which there is therapist induced memory, I guess. jackief Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie :) > > >From what I was told, a psychologist can't prescribe the drugs but will > work with a psychiatrist or a MD who can and they can recommend a > prescription to their associates, who I am sure would have no problem > just rubber stamping their prescriptions. > > I do think this so called Dr needed some help though. A mind is a > terrible thing to play with, and it looks like that is what she did to > her patient from what I saw. > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Vi Just leaving for work so don't have a chance to really post. Will get back to you tonight with the info. There is a number of websites dealing with this disorder. Some of the background contributing to the disorder are severe abuse and neglect as infants, etc. They have found the problem, with people who adopt severely neglected infants--but't I don't want anyone to get the impression that this will result if a person is adopted--this is not the case. The child is quite adept at "playing the game" of bonding, but it is a facade, according to the woman I talked to. Will try to talk to her again today and get more info. jackief Viola Provenzano wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > What is "attachment disorder"? Is this the same as being too emotionally > involved with someone someone, or the inability to be emotionally involv- > ed? > > Vi_ > You wrote: > > . . .<< mentioned that children with this disorder could end up to be your next > mass or serial killer.>>> > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Perjury
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Clintonistas are not bound by the rules of logic or they wouldn't be > clintonistas. > Best, Terry > Hi Terry Well that just goes to prove I am not a Clintonite at least by your statement. Of course, I didn't know that being a member of a certain political party determined whether you used logic or not. That is really the best logical statement I have ever heard, almost as good as "trickle down" economic policy in a global economy will jump start the economy. Democrat>non-logical person Republican--->logical person jackief . > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue As I told Bill earlier, it is quiet here too. But, I will sure let you know if I hear anything. Of course, we have our very own murder case here in town, so that may be the reason. This is a big thing here, murder is rare in Austin. It is a pretty cut and dried case here so shouldn't take long for it to get over. But will keep my ears open. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > We haven't gotten any new information for quite some time either. In > fact it isn't even mentioned anymore. > > Please do keep us up on what is happening will you? > > Sue > > > > Hi Jackie, > > > > The coverage of this tragedy has just about ended here. I don't see any > > new stories about it and have not heard about the things you've posted > > here. One thing that bothered me was the seemingly flawless accuracy > > these kids had. There weren't many misses. It made me wonder if someone > > else may have been involved who was not caught and who is feared by the > > kids so they won't talk about it. > > > > Keep us posted on what's happening on this one. Thanks. > > > > Bill > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > The coverage of this tragedy has just about ended here. Hi Bill After the fiasco with the release of Mitchell's preadjudication records, people are trying to keep it quiet here too. I think that is for the best though. I know the judge here was furious over it and has taken steps to ensure it never happens again. I just wonder if Mitchell and/or Drew are going to be diagnosed with attachment disorder. Talked with someone very familar with the disorder and she mentioned that children with this disorder could end up to be your next mass or serial killer. jackief Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > Hi Jackie, > > As usual, your perception of issues transcends the bias and prejudice of > others. :) Clearly it seems that if McDougal was refusing to answer > questions in order to hide Clinton's guilt, then Clinton would have > issued a presidential pardon to her to take the heat off of her. He > could simply say that this woman is being persecuted as a political > prisoner and this was against all the principles that our judicial system > stands for. If he is not guilty, however, he does not need to take any > chances with public sentiment and opinion that might be turned against > him if he issues a pardon to McDougal. > > Bill Hi Bill And here I thought I was more difficult to understand than Kant : ). I just wonder how people can figure she is getting such a great payoff later--prison is no picnic, usually, for anyone. And I would imagine it is harder for someone that has been used to somewhat more in life than the average prisoner. Besides, by the time she gets out, I don't imagine Clinton would have the money for the big payoff as people seem to think. Oops, they just called Susan "Joan of Arc" on TV, they must be reading our posts (teehee). jackief > > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I NOW Will Not Back Paula Jones
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > Hi Jackie, > > Perhaps a better question than why NOW should support Jones is why the > right wing whacko's, who have never cared about women's rights in the > past, and who have tried to defeat any legislation designed to protect > women's rights, are now so concerned about them. As always, their > transparency is what destroys their credibility and intelligent groups > like NOW recognize the wisdom of keeping a very safe distance from these > political manipulators. > > Bill > > Hi Bill You are right, as Ireland pointed out when she reported why NOW was not supporting Paula. But, of course, NOW is not supporting Paul, the truthful, sweet little innocent because they are all enanamored with Clinton . Funny, that someone has to be a Clinton lover if they don't go along with this political crap. jackief > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Back Home
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Joan Welcome back. Great to have you back jackief Joan Moyer wrote: > "Joan Moyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hello Everyone, > > We arrived back in Fl Tues. night. Set up the computer before all the bags > and boxes were unpacked. Priorities! Didn't get to read much of your > posts while in Pa since the computer was in the tax office. I'll have to > catch up. Good to be back. > > Joan > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: No Terry I believe she said she went to jail *rather* than to testify the way Starr wanted her to. That is not the same as going to jail for not testifying to the truth. And, if she tesifies as she says is the truth, he will cite her for perjury because her story contradicts his star witness, Hale's, story. It all depends on who's story you believe--Hale's or Susan's that leads you to believe which is lying and committing perjury. I guess I prefer to believe someone that does not sell her soul to get out of going to prison, rather than one who feels none of his crimes should go to court as he figured he was immune to prosecution by testifying that the Clintons were involved and knew it was a scam. It appears you left out a few words when you related this--the words being "rather than testify the *way* Starr wanted, not necessarily the truth. Maybe you could start with Pascal, rather than Kant : ) jackief [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > If you can follow the logic of going to jail for not testifying to the truth > because then you could go to jail for perjury (which few ever do) for > telling the truth, I will have to take your word for it. I think it would > be easier to understand Kant. > > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> Nope. She is serving time for her Whitewater conviction. Her trial for > >> embezzlement is pending. And she is going to jail for contempt of court. > >> Unless you think she is a masochist she is obviously hiding something - to > >> with Clinton's involvement in Whitewater. > >> > >> >> Best, Terry > >> > > > >Hi Terry > > > >I am a little puzzled here. I don't think that her refusal to testify > necessarily > >implies she is hiding something, nor that she is a masochist. Isn't that > rather a > >leap in logic?? Yes, in many cases people don't talk because they are hiding > >something, but that is not always the case. It depends on the assumptions > you are > >making to draw your conclusions. Some people would think she was a staunch > >defender of the "truth" and unwilling to submit to power. Others would say the > >"truth" will set her free. Depends on your starting point doesn't it?? > Instead of > >starting with the assumption that Clinton is guilty, try starting with the > >assumption that he is innocent and that just possibly this is a political witch > >hunt. I would think then that two different conclusions will be made. > Susan may > >be a "Joan of Arc" in disguise . > > > >jackief > > > >> >-- > >> >Two rules in life: > >> > > >> >1. Don't tell people everything you know. > >> >2. > >> > > >> >Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > >> > > >> > > >> Best, Terry > >> > >> "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > >> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > > > > >-- > >In the sociology room the children learn > >that even dreams are colored by your perspective > > > >I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" > > > > > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > > Best, Terry > > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Child death sentence
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Kathy and Terry I agree that you train a horse, just like you train a dog. However, I think maybe it might be in reverse (hahaha). When we were training the dobes, we came to the conclusion that they were training us. Still think so at times, especially when Freud makes his mouth motions with no sound so he can have the last word . jackief Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hey Terry :) Tell your friend you never break a horse, you train it, no > one likes broken horses (G) > > I missed 48 hours also and I had meant to watch it, I thought it was on > tonight though. Oh well I'll catch it in repeats :) > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > We just got a manual for our new shit machine. Rosie is a German Shepherd. > > They are supposed to be smart. Easily trained. I would like to speak to > > whatever idiot put out that damnable lie. Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Whitewater Witness Goes on Trial in Arkansas
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Nope. She is serving time for her Whitewater conviction. Her trial for > embezzlement is pending. And she is going to jail for contempt of court. > Unless you think she is a masochist she is obviously hiding something - to > with Clinton's involvement in Whitewater. > > >> Best, Terry > Hi Terry I am a little puzzled here. I don't think that her refusal to testify necessarily implies she is hiding something, nor that she is a masochist. Isn't that rather a leap in logic?? Yes, in many cases people don't talk because they are hiding something, but that is not always the case. It depends on the assumptions you are making to draw your conclusions. Some people would think she was a staunch defender of the "truth" and unwilling to submit to power. Others would say the "truth" will set her free. Depends on your starting point doesn't it?? Instead of starting with the assumption that Clinton is guilty, try starting with the assumption that he is innocent and that just possibly this is a political witch hunt. I would think then that two different conclusions will be made. Susan may be a "Joan of Arc" in disguise . jackief > >-- > >Two rules in life: > > > >1. Don't tell people everything you know. > >2. > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > > Best, Terry > > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I "Lunatic Fringe of Psychotherapy" according to Lawyer
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > A psychotherapist being sued for $10 million for allegedly causing a > Katy woman to believe she had helped kill more than 100 babies practiced > in the "lunatic fringe of psychotherapy," the woman's attorney told > jurors Tuesday. > > She said she came to the Houston area in 1987 because her husband was > offered his present job. She completed a doctorate in school psychology > from New York University in 1986. She said she may have been a licensed > psychotherapist for one day before she first saw Jones. > -- > Kathy E Hi Kathy Just a couple of questions maybe someone can answer on this. I thought psychologists could not use drugs in their treatment of someone. Isn't that the difference between a psychologist and psychiatrist?? Second, she has a doctorate in school psychology, not clinical psychology--wouldn't that make a difference in her ability to treat this woman?? And, how many personalities?? Whoa, I think the defendant belongs in Ripley's book. jackief > "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow > isn't looking too good for you either" > http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law & Issues Mailing List > http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Paula's Legal Fees was L&I Presidential Scandals in U.S. History
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Viola LOL--but, you know how hard it is to make ends meet on a working girl's salary--so have to make sure that image is kept up; thus, no new Mercedes. jackief Viola Provenzano wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Viola Provenzano) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > No new Mercedez for Paula? Tsk, tsk! Even the Republican Party must be > on a budget these days! :) > > Vi > _ > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I NOW Will Not Back Paula Jones
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ronald Helm wrote: Ronald Helm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >Sue > > That is fine with Paula most likely. It would have been alot like the > Democratic National Committee, supporting her. The radical feminist left > would hardly want to see Clinton proven wrong. Ron > Ron Why is NOW membership all radical feminists? That seems to be quite the stereotype. Of course, I really don't know of any right wing feminist groups--now that is an oxymoron if I ever heard one. I guess women just don't like the right wing agenda--broke, barefoot and living on the edge of town. Now that is a great stereotype of the the right wingers, I think jackief > 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Paula's Legal Fees was L&I Presidential Scandals in U.S. History
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Wouldn't the shopping be fun!! No worry about cost or anything. I will be interested to see if one of the arguments is ever the matter of perception, especially after hearing, at least I think I heard this on tv, that a man had to remove a picture of his wife in her bikini because someone saw it as creating a hostile work environment. (I guess I will have to take that nude picture of Ed off my desk--hahaha). I read the interview and have taken some notes on it. I think I will also come armed with notes from my ethics in the cj. system as I am sure that many of the arguments the students will have will deal with rationales that are based on one or another of the moral perspectives. Better brush up. After they hand them in and I have read them will make copies of any that may be of interest to you and post them. I'll sweet talk Ed into scanning them for me. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > I like those perks.When do I get to start. Shopping that is. :) > > That really is a very interesting question about perception. I have > thought about it myself and wondered why one persons was more important > and took on more meaning than anothers. > > There was a very good show on Nightline last night featuring a Special > Judge, a DA, and a defense attorney. Each had to work with the DP in > different ways. They each gave their thoughts about how they felt about > this. It really was very good. I put the transcript on here today, but > if you didn't get it I can go back and get it for you. > > Sue > > Hi Sue > > > > LOL And of course, as an expert witness, you would qualify for shopping trips, > > beauty salons, etc, too. What a deal, huh. My students wanted to know why one > > person's perception of an event took precedence over another person's perception in > > some of the cases, especially if you did not have to show consequences--job-related > > or emotional that required professional help? Made for lively discussion. The >best > > part is that it was the women in the class that were the most adamant that there >had > > to be consequences. May explain why the women's groups do not just jump right in. > > Next week, they are bringing information on the death penalty--pro and con. Should > > be interesting. > > > > jackief > > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Colo. Closes Youth Prison
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Like everything there are pro and con for making prisons, and other human service organizations a profit making organization. And many are well run, but there is always the risk of some putting profit ahead of the goal just as in any other organization. One thing that often happens is what you found in this incidence. The staff are not always paid well and you sometimes get what you pay for as some would not be hired in state and federal run prisons because they are not well-trained, etc. The other problem that has occurred is that it is not solving our overcrowding problem as the private prisons are accepting prisoners from other countries because the fee paid by the other country is more than the state they are in will pay. I would imagine it is just like nursing homes were before all the regulations were put into place. Once the problems are ironed out, private prisons may evenutally help ease the overcrowding without these types of incidents. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > I didn't even know that they had "private prisons" until that deal came > up in Texas where the prisoners were being beaten. > > I don't think that private prisons are a good idea because there isn't > anyone to really watch over how they are run, I don't think. Actually > the whole prison system should be revamped. There was a story on > Nightline that ran three nights about the prison system. One prison > that they went into seemed to be alright. The prisoners said that they > were treated as human beings rather than animals, and that made all the > difference in the world. > > Sue > > Hi Sue > > > > This wonderful cost-benefit solution doesn't seem to work so well. This > > article appears to support the contention of some that there are some > > areas that for-profit organizations will cause more problems than they > > solve in the short-term. The issues of possible abuse have been raised > > since this solution was first proposed, but saving a buck (or so it > > appeared) became the criteria for deciding the private prision was the > > way to go. Of course, they are only inmates, so that's ok > > > > jackief > > > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Child death sentence
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Terry And the sad part of this is that the welfare reform, according to some, are going to hit children the hardest. So it is likely we will see more problem children. It seems like we do mind putting a large number of children at risk to ensure that the smaller percent of welfare recipients are not on the rolls for long periods of time. jackief [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hi Sue, > > Maybe as long as you are wondering who to blame for the problems maybe you > and I have some part in this. There is a reason that children make up the > major portion of the poor in this country. The last report I saw said that > 1 out of 5 children live in poverty. The country has decided that children > aren't worth as much as others. The main problem is the long decline in > wages in this country. > > >Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Terry: > > > >I have to agree here. The government in getting into the family too > >much and then leaving the mess that they make for the parents to clean > >up. I do agree with that. > > > >But it still is your family, and knowing where your kids are, as well > >as well as making them go to school (which can be next to impossible in > >some situations) is still up to the parent. No matter what the > >government says. > > > >But it has to start in infancy, you can't start when they reach high > >school age (or even younger) and expect to have results. > > > >What is strange here is that no one wants to blame the kid for what he > >does. Yet no one wants to blame anyone else either. > > > >Sue > > > >Sue > >> Even beyond that, Doc, is the increasing willingness of the government to > >> assume a position of authority but leaving all the responsibility with the > >> parents. The government is willing to even kill kids but it is the parents' > >> fault. > >> > >> Best, Terry > > > >-- > >Two rules in life: > > > >1. Don't tell people everything you know. > >2. > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > > > > Best, Terry > > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Colo. Closes Youth Prison
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue This wonderful cost-benefit solution doesn't seem to work so well. This article appears to support the contention of some that there are some areas that for-profit organizations will cause more problems than they solve in the short-term. The issues of possible abuse have been raised since this solution was first proposed, but saving a buck (or so it appeared) became the criteria for deciding the private prision was the way to go. Of course, they are only inmates, so that's ok jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Colo. Closes Youth Prison > > > > > > > Barbara McDonnell, head of the Department of Human > > Services, said High Plains' staff was unqualified and > > insufficient for the number of inmates. The center also > > admitted youths with special mental and emotional > > health needs ``when it was neither licensed nor > > qualified to serve them,'' she said. > > > >Some state lawmakers question whether the state has > > gone too far in relying on private prisons. > > > > ``My concern has always been whether we can retain > > control to protect inmates and the public. I don't want > > to become so dependent on private facilities we lose > > control,'' said Sen. Dottie Wham, R-Denver. > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Supreme Court, Angel Francisco Breard
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue That that could be used as a precedent, couldn't it for insisting on a unanimous decision? jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > Dr. L. is a lot more educated on the Supremes than I am, but since I > have been reading these things I have seen quite a few that were > unanimous in their findings to carry out the DP. In fact more than not. > > Sue > > Hi Linda > > > > I would think that if we need a unanimous jury to convict on the death > > penalty, it would follow that it would be nice if the appeals courts > > followed that rule too. Of course, that would mean probably that all death > > penalty appeals would result in no DP. What do you think? > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Paula's Legal Fees was L&I Presidential Scandals in U.S. History
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue LOL And of course, as an expert witness, you would qualify for shopping trips, beauty salons, etc, too. What a deal, huh. My students wanted to know why one person's perception of an event took precedence over another person's perception in some of the cases, especially if you did not have to show consequences--job-related or emotional that required professional help? Made for lively discussion. The best part is that it was the women in the class that were the most adamant that there had to be consequences. May explain why the women's groups do not just jump right in. Next week, they are bringing information on the death penalty--pro and con. Should be interesting. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Jackie Fellows wrote: > > > Hi Jackie: > > But of course being your expert witness would mean that I would become > famous too. So see I would get something out of it. > > Besides I like you, I don't like Susan. :) > > > > Sue > > > > But Sue > > > > As a friend, you offered to be my expert witness. Did you want money for that > > (teehee). I thought Susan was her friend and spoke for her because she was so > > emotionally devastated by this 3-4 year old incident, not for any payoff. Have > > I been wrong all this time?? And, I guess people just do not understand > > that having a beauty makeover, new clothes, etc. are legal fees--aren't they > > for everyone? . > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Supreme Court, Angel Francisco Breard
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D. wrote: > "Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Sue, thank you for posting this case on procedural default, where the > high Court felt that the issue of the Vienna Treaty had not been > preserved because not raised in the lower courts (check me out). I vote > that if there is a dissent (or are dissents) in capital cases a stay of > execution would result. That do you think? :) LDMF. > Hi Linda I would think that if we need a unanimous jury to convict on the death penalty, it would follow that it would be nice if the appeals courts followed that rule too. Of course, that would mean probably that all death penalty appeals would result in no DP. What do you think? jackief > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: Paula's Legal Fees was L&I Presidential Scandals in U.S. History
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: But Sue As a friend, you offered to be my expert witness. Did you want money for that (teehee). I thought Susan was her friend and spoke for her because she was so emotionally devastated by this 3-4 year old incident, not for any payoff. Have I been wrong all this time?? And, I guess people just do not understand that having a beauty makeover, new clothes, etc. are legal fees--aren't they for everyone? . Hi Vi--heard her Mercedes isn't new--of course, Mercedes do not lose their value usually if kept up. But, I guess she needs to drive a Mercedes to the gym--what would people say if she drove a "common" car? (I know, Meow) jackie Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Vi: > > They are suppose to be paying for her legal fees, not her living > expenses. :) And also what is this Susan Carpenter McMillan getting > out of this anyway. You have to know she isn't doing all this out the > the kindness of her heart. I know I wouldn't. > > Sue > > Hi Sue, > > > > It seems pretty obvious that Paula is working for the Republican > > right-wing, There is plenty of money in their coffers and as long as > > Paula can get one iota of publicity she will remain in the public eye and > > the gadfly on Clinton's reputation. > > > > Vi > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Digs Fail To Verify Iraq Warheads
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ronald Helm wrote: > > > >Bill > > Bill, you are wrong yet again. Starr is attempting to prove a positive, > that Clinton and company suborned perjury. The onus is on Clinton to try to > prove that he did not suborn perjury, and that negative can never be proven. > Hi Ron I believe you have it in reverse. It is up to Starr to prove the positive, the suborning of perjury, not up to Cinton to try to prove he did not. Remember, innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. So this BS about all Clinton has to do is confess up to what some people want to hear flies against the whole principle of the cj system. He can sit and do nothing and that is his right. Everyone jumps up and down saying that he has no special rights as President and then turn around and deny that he should have the rights that all the rest of us have. It sounds like some people speaketh with forked tongues. jackief BTW--I wasn't aware I owned the magnetic fields--watch out everyone, who knows what I will do with this wonderful property I now own. (Jackie's magnetic fields--wow, give me my toys to play with--). -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill I think it is called seeing a tree. Concentrating so hard on that tree, you miss everything else. It was interesting to hear the law professor, Rothstein (?), the other night on tv when they were talking about having the secret service testify or not. He pointed out in different words that this is another instance of seeing the tree and not the forest. Did you happen to catch that? As far as standing up for 'poor, little women' by immediately jumping on the woman's side, IMO, is just reverse victimization. The whole press conference in this instance did that very thing if you really look at the whole set-up. But, I have some questions about the Jonesboro tragedy? A number of people here were asking about why just one boy has been singled out in this case. At this time, it almost seems like it is one boy who did all the shooting. It is being kept very quiet that the 11 year old fired the majority of the shots--Mitchell fired 7 shots from their accounts. Also, (this may be gossip) that the shots that killed the girls and teacher were not of the caliber of gun that Mitchell was shooting. Do you or anyone else on the list know anything about this?? I realize that it appears there is a social class difference between the two families of the boys which is a factor, but wondered if there was more? Wasn't it Drew's grandfather that had accessible guns, not Mitchell's? What was Drew's reasons for getting involved, we have heard speculation on why Mitchell did it.But, in actuality, I am glad that they have toned down the media coverage on this in some respects I guess. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > . You'd think they would get > the message and begin trying to look at issues with critical thinking > rather than with the blinders or rampant prejudice and unreined bias. > > > Bill > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill I think the press conference was held in an attempt to change the image by removing Susan from being the spokesperson. It sounds like the lawyers are easing good ole' Susan out of the picture to once again portray Paula as this meek, little innocent who is so overwrought with emotion, but that she is willing to be a martyr for the women's cause by going ahead with the appeal (Where is my puke bucket, I seemed to have mislaid it--). She must have read the law list--up there with Mother Theresa, no less. And to be really catty at this point, I think the "producers" of her conference better take into consideration that a side shot is not her best angle (meow). I am still wondering where my $20,000 for her beauty makeover went (I know, nasty me). I guess it is just that I don't want what I consider to be a "lead me around by the ring in my nose" woman representing women in a crusade against sexual harrassment (no pun intended on this). I especially like the remarks from her lawyer about their willingness to settle this out and willingness to sit down at the negotiating table. Funny, how they are now willing. Also loved her husband's remark that all she is looking for is an apology--is that wrapped up in "big bucks" packaging. Oh well, this all fit in well with Ken's little announcement. jackief jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > On Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:04:21 EDT DocCec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >DocCec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >In a message dated 98-04-17 10:01:42 EDT, you write: > > > ><< From my point of view this is just starting to get tired > > and boring. >> > > > >Just starting? From mine it's been that from the beginning. And all > >the > >hoopla about this "news conference" -- did anyone seriously think she > >was > >going to announce a decision NOT to appeal? > >Doc > > Hi Doc, > > A very well rehearsed news conference I might add. Too bad she's not a > good enough actress to pull it off. If she's not interested in media > coverage then why even HAVE a news conference? It is certainly not a > requirement to have one in order to appeal a court decision. These > people are so dumb and transparent it's hilarious. > > Bill > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Steve Mayber her therapist (read that so-called friend who urged her to go public) told her it would be good for her to mount this campaign to mend her emotional wounds . She seems to have the same type of friend that Monica and Kathleen had. Monica had Linda Tripp, Kathleen Wiley had the friend with the letter, and now Paula has the friend who twice urged her to go public with this. Seems like a pattern here--all have friends who are eager to help. And now Paula's husband is suing TWA, oh my, the "sue bug" (not you Sue ) is making the rounds in the Jones' house. jackief Steve Wright wrote: > Steve Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > If she was suffering from so much emotional injury, she wouldn't have been > able to mount such a ridiculous campaign against the president, she left > herself far more open to emotional stress than she would have suffered if > she left it alone. From my point of view this is just starting to get tired > and boring. Our PM hasn't got the brains to run a piss up in a brewery > never mind the country. > > Steve > > -Original Message- > From: Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 10:17 PM > Subject: L&I Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not Impossible > > >Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Jones Appeal Difficult, But Not > > Impossible > > > > By Pierre > > Thomas/CNN > > > > WASHINGTON > > (April 16) -- Judge > > Susan Webber > > Wright's sweeping > > dismissal of Paula > > Jones' lawsuit makes > > an appeal extremely > > difficult -- difficult, but not impossible. > > > > Take, for instance, Jones' claim of emotional distress > > she says she suffered at the hands of then-Gov. Bill > > Clinton. "Mr. Clinton exposed himself to me that > > day," Jones has said. > > > > The idea that such behavior caused Jones no mental > > anguish might be difficult for a higher court to > >fathom, > > says one expert. > > > > "When Judge Wright dismissed the emotional distress > > claim, it raised concerns among many people that this > > claim is not unlike the claims of many women who > > are not arguing employment injury but rather > > emotional injury," said Jonathan Turley of George > > Washington University Law School. > > > > An appellate court might fear that blocking the Jones > > case from going to trial would have a chilling effect > > on hundreds of other sexual harassment cases. > > > > But in her ruling Judge Wright found Jones incurred > > no medical bills and never sought emotional > > counseling. > > > > In fact, Wright said Jones had no case, not for sexual > > assault. The judge said, "The conduct as alleged by > > plaintiff describes a mere sexual proposition or > > encounter, albeit an odious one, that was relatively > > brief in duration." > > > > And Wright said > > Jones had no case, > > not for sexual > > harassment. She > > ruled Jones "has not > > demonstrated any > > tangible job detriment > > or adverse > > employments action > > for her refusal to > > submit to the > > governor's alleged advances." > > > > That argument may be difficult to overturn on appeal > > and limits Jones' options, says one sexual harassment > > expert. > > > >
Re: L&I British government defends "crime college" kids' prison
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Thanks for sharing the clipping. I sat there reading it and could think of pro's and con's for both sides of the issue. I found it extremely interesting. Interesting that Britian is trying to do something so comprehensive for their serious offenders--stealing cars , while our solution is to try them as adults after coasting along until now when some offenders have graduated from stealing cars into really horrendous crimes. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > LONDON, April 14 (AFP) - The British government defended Tuesday > plans to open a special detention centre for child criminals that > critics claim will become a "college for crime" and cost more than > staying at the Ritz hotel. > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Members please read
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Kathy Sorry to hear you will be gone for awhile, but know how hard you have worked to keep us informed of cases. Enjoy your breather and we will be thinking of you. jackief Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I have recently covered two child murder cases back to back, and to say > the least it is a bit taxing emotionally for me. It's hard NOT to get > involved when you see the pictures of the children alive and then the > crime scene photo's and ME's pictures, I told Ed I would like to have > some time off of the list, to attend to some matters in my private life > and also just to take a break from the court cases. > > I'll be back on April 20th to cover the trial of the Las Vegas > murder/sexual assault of the little girl. I ask if any one needs any > admin or the sort done you send all email to Ed, if there is something > he thinks I need to be made aware of he will let me know :) I will > continue to do the COTD but don't look for much output from me on other > things, also if you haven't received a reply from me on anything don't > hold your breath waiting for it, I did all the email replies I could > this weekend and I won't be having a lot of time to do any others if at > all UFN. I thank you for your patience on this :) > > Happy Posting :) > -- > Kathy E > "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow > isn't looking too good for you either" > http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law & Issues Mailing List > http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Passover Peace/Easter greeting - from Sue
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Sue wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sue) writes: > > Guess what!! Sue has just sent you an animated greeting card > You can pick up your personal greeting by connecting to the following WWW Address Hi Sue Thanks for the Easter/Passover greeting. Hope your day with Steven and the other grandbabies is a great and wonderful day. jackief Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Singer George Michael Says He's Gay
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Ronald Helm wrote: > Yep, called me a pedophile, a Nazi, and a misogynist because I do abortions. > That is the kind of crazy anti-choice people who are out there, and in front > of every abortion clinic. Most are male, white, fundamentalist Christians, > the type that killed a cop and maimed a nurse by bombing the abortion clinic > in Birmingham. Ron > Ooh Ron, They got all the labels going--now the question is--do they know what the words mean?? Nazi, maybe. jackief > 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Question
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Give Coco a great big puppy treat in her Easter basket. She deserves it : o) jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Kathy: > > I see what you mean, but it isn't a typo. LOL > > This morning they woke up at 5 AM, Ron heard the door open, heard the > dog growl, and heard the door shut. They went back to bed and didn't > get up until 8am. > > I do let them out to eat. :) > > It works. > > BTW Coco wouldn't hurt them at all, and they really aren't that afraid > of her. But just aren't sure. > > Sue The grandma from hell. :) > > > > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Ark. Suspect's Dad Mistaken
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Kathy You have summarized the general feeling that is around here. A lot of the people here knew the boy and the family. They say the same thing--that it is no excuse for killing. Personally, I think that it is strange that it came out so conveniently at this time. Of course, I sometimes have problems with the abuse defense as I think that it is being overused by some which negates the trauma that "real" abuse victims go through. If he was abused repeatedly as the lawyer seem to hint, then there would have been signs long before this occurred. The only thing I find somehow worrisome is that we hear a lot about Mitchell, but everything is kept very quiet about Drew. When I read an article sent here or somewhere else, reading between the lines (naughty me), it seems that Drew comes from the "right type" of family and Mitchell doesn't. It also appears the "small town protect your own" is at work here. I don't want to hear about Drew's past and I don't think Mitchell's should have been aired either. I am still upset with the stupidity of the county attorney in that situation. Off-topic: Did you hear we are going to be trying a pilot program here in MN. They are going to make public in some areas the records and adjudications in family court of parental abuse--I think it is only parental abuse cases in family court (will check on that). The idea of public humiliation is the basis, I think, for this trial run. I don't know what they will do about cases that there was a false allegation, etc. Anyway, the justices feel that this may reduce parental abuse. jackief Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie :) > > I personally am wondering if there has ever been any abuse as they have > tried to say, it's beginning to sound like a made up excuse to me. OTOH > let's say it's true, what right does that give him to go killing his > classmates and a teacher? None, it's a pretty poor excuse to me. > > > > > > > http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law & Issues Mailing List > http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Ark. Suspect's Dad Mistaken
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue I would imagine the mother has given up. It sounds like she has had a rough time and yes, I imagine poverty has a lot to do with it. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > I doubt that anyone will ever really know why this happened. > > The mother was on Dateline last week, and she just seemed like a woman > who has pretty much given up. Poverty probably plays a big role in this > whole thing. :( > > Sue > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Ark. Suspect's Dad Mistaken
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Kathy and Sue The talk around here is that the boy was taken care of by his grandmother and the abuse *supposedly* was done by someone living in the trailer court (?) in Spring Valley. Now this is gossip of course. I asked my colleague and he said that there is more to the mother than meets the eye. That is probably why she keeps a low profile. But this again is just something I heard and is not gospel truth. jackief Kathy E wrote: > Kathy E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > That loud flushing sound you hear is the abuse story going down the > toilet... > > Sue Hartigan wrote: > > > > DALLAS (AP) -- The father of the 13-year-old boy > > > accused in last month's school shooting in Arkansas > > > said he was mistaken when he said on national > -- > Kathy E > "I can only please one person a day, today is NOT your day, and tomorrow > isn't looking too good for you either" > http://members.delphi.com/kathylaw/ Law & Issues Mailing List > http://pw1.netcom.com/~kathye/rodeo.html - Cowboy Histories > http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2990/law.htm Crime photo's > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Easter Greetings From jackie fellows
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bob LOL, I knew who you meant and knew the thought was there. I bet you are having a great time with the little one. Have a great Easter with your family. jackief Robert Blankenship wrote: > Robert Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > oops > hi jackie > i'm covering my very red red red face i ment to say jackie on this one.sorry > to both.but > you see i have had my daughter and son in-law and my GRANDbaby down all week > and so guess whats been on grandpas mind.any way thank you for the card,and i > hope > you and your family the best Easter you have ever had. > bob, > -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Easter Bunny:-)
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Steve Thanks for the Easter wishes. jackief Steve Wright wrote: > "Steve Wright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Happy Easter to you all, especially Jackie & Kathy, hope you all have a > wonderful time, > > Best Wishes Steve XXX > > === > > Lifes a beach and I'm on it, Jah Wobble. > > === > PERSONAL EMAIL TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Iacono survey & death penalty was Re: L&I Re: Reply from Iacono on the polygraph survey
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill Just received the journal article written by Iacono and Lykken from the APA. Pretty interesting stuff for those interested in the polygraph controversy and interested in whether the methodology was flawed. One interesting thing I found is that they had put their survey together based on the recommendations of Dillman and his colleagues. Dillman is "the expert" in survey construction, especially main surveys. I spent many agonizing hours over his material--every research class I had included Dillman. Iacono and Lykken covered everything that could be covered, IMO--the respondents' appraisal of the validity of the CGT polygraph being administered under adversarial conditions by the police vrs being administered through a defense attorney, as an example. The other very interesting thing is the response rates of the Gallup Poll, The Amato survey, and this survey. The Gallup Organization did not provide information on the response rate to their survey and was conducted in 1984; the Amato survey had a response rate of only 30% and Iacono & Lykken had a response rate of 91% of the 214 deliverable surveys to psychophysiologists and of the 226 deliverable surveys of APA Fellows there was a 74% retured usuable questionaires. The original number of surveys to SPR were 216--2 returned as nondeliverable. For APA Fellows, 249 were mailed--9 were nondeliverable, and 14 were either now deceased or unable to respond for health reason. They violated radnomness to the extent of excluding from the SPR sample themselves, member of their department, and Raskin, et al. For APA, the only ones excluded were from their department. Nothing unethical in this exclusion that I can think of. Also received in the mail (guess it was my lucky day) the latest Bureau of Justice Bulleting on Capital Punishment in 1996. I was surprised to learn that at yearend, 1996, there were 3,219 prisoners under sentence of death--5% more than at yearend 1995. Yep, Sue, California had the largest number (454). There were 48 women under sentence of death in 1996. Among persons (data available), average age at time of arrest was 28 On Dec. 31, 1996, 70% were age 25 to 44, the youngest was 17 (1); the oldest, 81. From 1977 to 1996, there have been 5,154 persons entering prison under sentence of death. During these years, 358 have been executed, and 1,957 were removed from under a death sentence by appellate court decisions and reviews, commutations, or death. More than you ever wanted to know about capital punishment prisoners and hadn't asked. : ) jackief . William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:43:40 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill > > > >I don't think anyone was discounting the polygraph if used under > >strict > >procedures and with the knowledge that many other extraneous things > >can > >affect the readings. However, putting blind faith into these things > >is not > >"my cup of tea" simply because there is still too much controversy > >about > >them. Honts, even although implicitly, verified that in he realized > >as a lie > >detector he needed more education to really be able to use them > >properly. > >This was after he had had education in administering the polygraph > >after > >training in local law enforcement and with the FBI. And, most > >examiners do > >not have the FBI training, let alone the other more advanced training. > > > >I wonder if the experts would have enough time to get on the list for > >a > >period of time?? But, it is worth asking them if I get a chance to > >meet > >them. Mentioned I had wrote to Iacono to some of the other psychology > >teachers here and they said "Not the, Iacono!" I was happy that he > >took the > >time to answer our questions. > > > >Well, better get off for a little bit--don't want the red glare to get > >too > >much for your eyes : ) > > > >We have another minor "court problem" now in this area--whether the > >hearing > >impaired are receiving the assistance in court they need by having a > >skilled > >signer to interpret for them. Our poor court system is taking a > >beating--first the release of the preadjudication records, now this. > > > >jackief > > HI Jackie, > > I think you've put the lie detector discussion in it's complete and > correct context. I agree about the experts probably not having time to > spend on computer discussion groups. OTOH, if they have written books
Re: Arkansas/Mitchell Johnson was Re: L&I Supreme Court-Polygraphs/additional info
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Boy, I sure don't have any ideas about what to do. It may be that we will need an intermediate process in which to try these kids with a tougher punishment that to be locked up with other juveniles until they are 18. They are really too young to put into the adult system--boy, would that cause problems. But, I don't think they belong in a juvenile facility, per se. They need much more strict supervision and therapy (probably) than they could get in most juvenile facilities. Wonder if there will be juvenile uprisings with the number of kids getting locked up for violent crimes?? jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > We have a 14 year old who murdered his friend 12 (I think) a few months > ago here (Idlywild). > > He was in a room with the boy, and the boy's brother, and pointed a > rifle at the boys head. He fired it but it misfired, so he reloaded and > made the boy stand still, shot him in the head, and then set the scene > up to look like suicide. (putting the boys finger prints on the gun and > all) Then he threatened the boy's brother and told him he would kill > him too if he told. > > Of course the cops figured out it wasn't a suicide right away, and the > brother did end up telling the true story. > > Since he was 45 days short of his 14th birthday he was tried as a > juvenile and will be out of juvenile hall on his 18th birthday, to > finish his term in youth authority till he is 25. > > The mother is livid and trying to have the laws changed where if a youth > commits an adult crime they will be tried as an adult. Doesn't look > like she will get anywhere, but I can sure understand why she feels the > way she does. I would probably feel the same way. > > Something does have to be done about these kids who murder. But where > do you draw the line, at what age. 14 is the age in California, but 14 > is a lot older now than it was when we were 14. :( > > Sue > > > > Hi Sue > > > > I just heard about the alleged sexual abuse of Mitchell. Posted before I read your > > other posts. Boy, there is sure a lot of stuff on the history of the family coming > > out, and like always--nothing was done at the time. But, you never really know if >you > > should interfere so guess you can't say anything now. I know Tom (my colleague) >now > > questions himself as to whether if he had done more, this tragedy wouldn't have > > happened. So I image many are feeling that way. > > > > As far as the reactions by those in Jonesboro, I guess it is like any other >terrible > > crime--there are two extreme camps and a lot of people in the middle wondering >really > > what did occur tp trigger this and what the best possible way of dealing with it >is. I > > guess, like Mitchell's father, I do not think Mitchell could or would be >rehabilitated > > in five years and should not be released when he turns 18. I only wish people >would > > begin to question what rehabilitation actually exists for juveniles when they are >sent > > to juvenile correctional facilities. Perhaps, out of this tragedy something >positive > > could happen--it sure hasn't happened when these horrendous crimes have been >occurring > > in our inner cities--just sweep it under the rug, until it really hits >'middle-class' > > America. Sorry to be cynical, here, but it sure seems this is the pattern in >history. > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re: Mitchell Johnson--victim of sexual abuse
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Yes, it seems strange. I am wondering how it is going to go over in the town of Grand Meadow. This is a really small town, so I would imagine any daycare provider, if the boy was there, would immediately be known by the residents. Haven't seen Tom to ask him. Maybe tomorrow--the state Supreme Court is holding court here in Austin and my classes and I have reserved seats. The case under appeal is a hearing on Miranda rights. The state is wanting the lower court's decision to suppress the confession because Miranda rights weren't given at the beginning of the interview with the suspect, but about 15 minutes into the videotaped interview. Will be interesting I am sure. We have to go through a metal detector, cannot take book bags, etc. in as it will slow down the search process, etc. We will listen the oral arguments and then the judges will answer questions from the audience. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > Like Doc said, "said". :) Just seems funny that it wouldn't come up at > all until now, not even when he was accused of sexual problems with his > half sister. Wonder why it didn't come out then? I guess everything > will come out sooner or later. > > Sue > > > Hi all > > > > Just on the news this morning. Said he was abused repetitively by a > > relative of the day care center he was in when 6 and/or 7. That's is > > really all I heard--imagine there will be more. > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re: Mitchell Johnson--victim of sexual abuse
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Doc Agree it is "said" not collaborated. Quite a bit of commentary by locals was included, as the town is so small and it would be very quickly known here where he went to daycare. So don't know what more is going to be shown here. jackief DocCec wrote: > DocCec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > In a message dated 98-04-07 07:06:12 EDT, you write: > > << Just on the news this morning. Said he was abused repetitively by a > relative of the day care center he was in when 6 and/or 7. That's is > really all I heard--imagine there will be more. > > jackief >> > > At this point, without some corroboration, I think the operative word is > "said." > Doc > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re: Reply from Iacono on the polygraph survey
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill Can't work on that allegation. I am too busy working on my case, with my expert witness's help, against Clinton. After all, he overlooked me. Like the woman on tv said, ole' Bill has had more women coming forward to claim having sex with him than anyone could imagine. So I thought I would come forward and claim extreme emotional stress for having been missed. So I guess, I can't now claim emotional distress because someone caused me to lose faith I wonder what I lost faith in anyway?? jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > Oh, I'm so relieved to hear that you were not emotionally damaged by that > nasty person questioning your faith. LMAOsome people certainly have > a high and delerious opinion of themselves, don't they? It takes all > kinds I guess. > > Bill > > On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 18:23:35 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Jeez, Bill > > > >You will turn my head!! I just was so excited about all the stuff I > >got in > >the mail yesterday I wanted to share it with you all. Even though my > >week > >started out pretty awful, the last two days have made up for it. Good > >stuff > >in the mail yesterday and our trip to watch the state supreme court > >hearing > >oral arguments today. Made up for Monday's Psychology test nightmare. > > > >jackief > > > >William J. Foristal wrote: > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > >> > >> HI Jackie, > >> > >> Wow, what a wealth of information you've included in this post. > >Thanks > >> for posting it! I wonder if the Supreme Court had any of that > >> information when they refused to prohibit the banning of lie > >detector > >> results in court. This is a classic example of needing to get ALL > >the > >> information available before coming to a knee jerk opinion of the > >overall > >> validity of lie detector tests with respect to determining whether a > >> subject is telling the truth. > >> > >> My only comment about your numbers concerning those on death row is > >that > >> it seems to prove the DP is not a deterrent to others. If it were, > >then > >> the numbers of people on death row should decrease instead of > >increase. > >> > >> Once again, you've become the star of the day on the law list. :) > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:50:29 -0500 Jackie Fellows > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> writes: > >> >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > > >> > > >> >Hi Bill > >> > > >> >Just received the journal article written by Iacono and Lykken from > >> >the APA. > >> >Pretty interesting stuff for those interested in the polygraph > >> >controversy > >> >and interested in whether the methodology was flawed. One > >interesting > >> >thing > >> >I found is that they had put their survey together based on the > >> >recommendations of Dillman and his colleagues. Dillman is "the > >> >expert" in > >> >survey construction, especially main surveys. I spent many > >agonizing > >> >hours > >> >over his material--every research class I had included Dillman. > >> >Iacono and > >> >Lykken covered everything that could be covered, IMO--the > >respondents' > >> >appraisal of the validity of the CGT polygraph being administered > >> >under > >> >adversarial conditions by the police vrs being administered through > >a > >> >defense > >> >attorney, as an example. > >> > > >> >The other very interesting thing is the response rates of the > >Gallup > >> >Poll, > >> >The Amato survey, and this survey. The Gallup Organization did not > >> >provide > >> >information on the response rate to their survey and was conducted > >in > >> >1984; > >> >the Amato survey had a response rate of only 30% and Iacono & > >Lykken > >> >had a > >> >response rate of 91% of the 214 deliverable surveys to > >> >psychophysiologists > >> >and of the 226 deliverable surveys of APA Fellows there was a 74% &
Re: L&I George Michael Arrested For 'Lewd Conduct' (http://www.yahoo.co.uk/hea
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > Hi Doc, > > I think it's a bit much myself. Who cares? It DOES seem strange that > he'd be doing this in a public area. Makes me wonder if there might be > more to it. Like solicitation or something. > > Bill > I bet I know. Does "would you like to kiss this for me" sound familar as he barred the police officer's exit from the restroom ?? jackief--I know I will be nice--tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re: Reply from Iacono on the polygraph survey
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jeez, Bill You will turn my head!! I just was so excited about all the stuff I got in the mail yesterday I wanted to share it with you all. Even though my week started out pretty awful, the last two days have made up for it. Good stuff in the mail yesterday and our trip to watch the state supreme court hearing oral arguments today. Made up for Monday's Psychology test nightmare. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > HI Jackie, > > Wow, what a wealth of information you've included in this post. Thanks > for posting it! I wonder if the Supreme Court had any of that > information when they refused to prohibit the banning of lie detector > results in court. This is a classic example of needing to get ALL the > information available before coming to a knee jerk opinion of the overall > validity of lie detector tests with respect to determining whether a > subject is telling the truth. > > My only comment about your numbers concerning those on death row is that > it seems to prove the DP is not a deterrent to others. If it were, then > the numbers of people on death row should decrease instead of increase. > > Once again, you've become the star of the day on the law list. :) > > Bill > > On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 19:50:29 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill > > > >Just received the journal article written by Iacono and Lykken from > >the APA. > >Pretty interesting stuff for those interested in the polygraph > >controversy > >and interested in whether the methodology was flawed. One interesting > >thing > >I found is that they had put their survey together based on the > >recommendations of Dillman and his colleagues. Dillman is "the > >expert" in > >survey construction, especially main surveys. I spent many agonizing > >hours > >over his material--every research class I had included Dillman. > >Iacono and > >Lykken covered everything that could be covered, IMO--the respondents' > >appraisal of the validity of the CGT polygraph being administered > >under > >adversarial conditions by the police vrs being administered through a > >defense > >attorney, as an example. > > > >The other very interesting thing is the response rates of the Gallup > >Poll, > >The Amato survey, and this survey. The Gallup Organization did not > >provide > >information on the response rate to their survey and was conducted in > >1984; > >the Amato survey had a response rate of only 30% and Iacono & Lykken > >had a > >response rate of 91% of the 214 deliverable surveys to > >psychophysiologists > >and of the 226 deliverable surveys of APA Fellows there was a 74% > >retured > >usuable questionaires. The original number of surveys to SPR were > >216--2 > >returned as nondeliverable. For APA Fellows, 249 were mailed--9 were > >nondeliverable, and 14 were either now deceased or unable to respond > >for > >health reason. They violated radnomness to the extent of excluding > >from the > >SPR sample themselves, member of their department, and Raskin, et al. > >For > >APA, the only ones excluded were from their department. Nothing > >unethical > >in this exclusion that I can think of. > > > >Also received in the mail (guess it was my lucky day) the latest > >Bureau of > >Justice Bulleting on Capital Punishment in 1996. I was surprised to > >learn > >that at yearend, 1996, there were 3,219 prisoners under sentence of > >death--5% > >more than at yearend 1995. Yep, Sue, California had the largest > >number > >(454). There were 48 women under sentence of death in 1996. Among > >persons > >(data available), average age at time of arrest was 28 On Dec. 31, > >1996, 70% > >were age 25 to 44, the youngest was 17 (1); the oldest, 81. From 1977 > >to > >1996, there have been 5,154 persons entering prison under sentence of > >death. > >During these years, 358 have been executed, and 1,957 were removed > >from under > >a death sentence by appellate court decisions and reviews, > >commutations, or > >death. More than you ever wanted to know about capital punishment > >prisoners > >and hadn't asked. : ) > > > >jackief > > > >. > > > > > > > >William J. Foristal wrote: > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > >> > >
Re: L&I Re: Mitchell Johnson--victim of sexual abuse
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: DocCec wrote: > DocCec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > In a message dated 98-04-07 21:32:22 EDT, you write: > > << The case under appeal is a hearing on Miranda rights. The state is > wanting the lower court's decision to suppress the confession because > Miranda rights weren't given at the beginning of the interview with the > suspect, but about 15 minutes into the videotaped interview >> > > Be sure to let us know the outcome of that one, jackief. > Doc > Hi Doc I can hardly wait to hear the decision they make. It is under advisement now. It was a great experience. I was really glad I had my students go, and most of them appeared to really be impressed and excited about hearing a real case. I think when we meet again there will be lots of discussion. It was a sociologist's dream though above and beyond the cj aspect of it. The communication styles of the women justices compared to the men justices was great to watch, especially as they didn't know they were being watched. Alan Paige, a pro football player that really did something after retiring from the Vikings, is one of the justices. The questioning was interesting. I think they will uphold the lower courts on this one. I sort of chuckled when one justice asked the lawyer for the state, if there was a way that the police were able to turn a switch on and off to determine when the victim was being asked questions as a potential victim/witness and a suspect. This was a real bonus for the students and for me. jackief > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Biased Judge Forgives Clinton
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Terry Sorry to disappoint you--I said I did not want to discuss something with someone who only negates, rather than examines and critique everything that does not fit within that person's version of what is accurate. When you have an opinion that can be backed with something, be my guest. But, so far this is what you have offered in rebuttal of the polygraph info I posted and info that others have posted 1..An amicus brief written by Hont's, a person with a vested interest in having the polygraph admitted (see his vita and his advertisement for professional consultancy in regard to the polygraph). He says the Iacono & Lykken survey had flaws (not that it was fraudulent like you posted). If you like I can post the flaws that were listed in the article concerning the over 10 year old survey conducted by the Gallup organization that did not even provide their response rate and the Amato survey with a mere 30% return rate that Honts relies on. Citing flaws in others work are SOP in the field. That doesn't make the other scientist commit fraud as you imply. 2. Your absurd statement about Thomas being a perjuror because you have a constitutional right to call him one, but then I think he might have the constitutional right to sue you for statements like that said in the wrong context that have no evidence to support your assertion. Next came your evidence about the death penalty and killing children. 1. An execution from the 40's. And something about since the 1970's, how many children were executed?? I just posted the number of children (1 person--aged 17) as of yearend 1996. And the individual was 17 at the time of arrest. In today's society, I hardly think a 17 year old is really much of a child. And then we have your evidence of why Judge Wright was biased. You cite a case against a politician that has only one similarity to the case brought against Clinton--they both happened to be Democrats. In the case you cite , the woman was wearing a tape recorder (what every well-dressed job applicant wears on a job interview--in fact, they are so common now I am surprised that one of the working women's magazines haven't published an article "101 fashionable ways to wear your tape recorder on your next job interview." And everytime in these cases that someone posted a contrary view, your response was that they didn't have it correct and any opposing evidence you simply dismissed as fradulent, not creditable, or said because the person was a Clintonite, or part of a dubious science (I still laugh at that one--the scientist you used for your polygraph argument happens to teach psychology and is an experimental psychologist). Terry, it would be great if just once you acknowledged that others on this list have some knowledge and that you may not be the only expert in a particular field or another. There are very informed people on this list who enjoy exercising their minds by engaging in controversaries over lots of stuff, but most of us on the list bow to the person that has either spent a lot of time looking into a topic or are involved in that field and do know something the rest of us don't. I wouldn't think of conducting a gyn exam over the internet, but I know an individual on here that can, and is expert at it so I bow to that person's expertise when it comes to those kind of topics. jackief [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hi Mac, > > >moonshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >Ronald Helm wrote: > > > >> "Ronald Helm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> > >> >ASSAULT? I didn't know you were a witness to any assault! Strong words from > >> a weak mind. > >> > >> Watch it Mac. Where is Ed when we need him :-) Are you going to take that > >> from Mac, Terry? Ron > > > >Afternoon Ron, I don't think he has much choice. He's still down from > hurtin' jackie put > >on him. > >...Mac > > Jackie said she didn't want to hear my opinion any more. I respected her > wishes. It's a terrible loss alright but I can take it. > Best, Terry > > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Biased Judge Forgives Clinton
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:24:54 -0400 (EDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > >Hi Mac, > > > >>moonshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >>Ronald Helm wrote: > >> > >>> "Ronald Helm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>> > >>> >ASSAULT? I didn't know you were a witness to any assault! Strong > >words from > >>> a weak mind. > >>> > >>> Watch it Mac. Where is Ed when we need him :-) Are you going to > >take that > >>> from Mac, Terry? Ron > >> > >>Afternoon Ron, I don't think he has much choice. He's still down > >from > >hurtin' jackie put > >>on him. > >>...Mac > > > >Jackie said she didn't want to hear my opinion any more. I respected > >her > >wishes. It's a terrible loss alright but I can take it. > >Best, Terry > > > >"Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > ROTF..if you respected that opinion on all the groups you participate > then you'd probably sell your computer and buy a Game Boy. > LMAO..I've been surfing through some of the news groups on the web. > Wow, you ARE a glutton for punishment. > > Bill > Bill, be nice . That might be the only time in my life that someone respected me--oh, I mean my wishes (LOL) jackief > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Biased Judge Forgives Clinton
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Gosh, Terry Wrong again!! You are certainly batting zero when it come to knowing anything about this poster. I just figured others on the list were getting tired of me "playing with your mind." You were getting quite funny though with your attempts at "wowing" us with your big words--epistomological, Cartesian. Oh my, I was so impressed, I almost had to stop yawning. It was like reading an essay answer from a student who hadn't read the chapters, but was going to try the standard "bs against the wall" approach. jackief [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hi Mac, > > >moonshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> >Afternoon Ron, I don't think he has much choice. He's still down from > >> hurtin' jackie put > >> >on him. > >> >...Mac > >> > >> Jackie said she didn't want to hear my opinion any more. I respected her > >> wishes. It's a terrible loss alright but I can take it. > > > >I wonder whyMac > > Because she couldn't stand having her faith questioned. > Best, Terry > > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re:School days, school days..
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue LOL--And they were *pink* and those rather baggy ones at that. The ones that come down to the middle of your upper leg and have balloon legs. What a sight!! jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > Boy am I glad to hear that. LOL > > But it is still quite a story to say the least. A nun with her > underwear down around her ankles. > > Sue > > > > Hi Sue > > > > LOL--we didn't lose her underwear, she did. The elastic on the waistband must > > have gave way and she was monitoring the convocation. Down they came around her > > ankles, her mouth dropped and of course those of us who had seen this happen said > > quite loudly--Oh Sister Josephina, be careful you don't trip. Of course everyone > > around turned to see. Somehow I think that all the mischevous makers of that time > > were all in my class. We were the last graduating class from the old' mansion as > > they were building a brand new school in the suburbs, so maybe we wanted to leave > > more of a mark on the history of the school. : ). We did do some silly things > > though--we had to I guess, there were no boys at the high school, as Catholic high > > schools then were all segregated by sex in MN, except for St Michael's. > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: The killing season was Re: L&I Jones case thrown out
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Couldn't agree with you more. I really liked how he showed both sides of the issue--the lack of support for the police (financially, socially, etc.) in their efforts and the lack of knowledge of why the emergence of such gangs--or rather, not knowledge, just convenient forgetfulness of some of the important reasons. The gangs today are so different than those historically and I think the author really pointed that out. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > I might give them an idea of what is real, that is for sure. It > certainly isn't like any television show. :( > > I thought it really gave an inside story of why these kids (adults) > became gang members, etc too. Made me understand it a lot more. Not > condone it but understand it. > > Sue > > > > Hi Sue > > > > I think his explanations fell right in line with what a number of researchers > > are finding. Everyone wants approval and support--if they can't find it > > elsewhere, gangs fill the bill nicely. It has everything going--rituals, > > special names, feelings of belonging, solidarity, etc. etc. What more could a > > young, driftless person want? > > > > Also, the economic and power factors seemed to be two of the underlying threads > > in the book which I thought really good about the book. You could really pick > > it up when you read what the suspects, witnesses and alive victims said. I am > > thinking of recommeding it to LE students. Some of them are so starry-eyed > > about becoming police officers--maybe reading of the paperwork, etc. will bring > > them down to earth : ) > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re Guns, guns and more guns.
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue Ooh, thanks for the book. Disregard my other messages then. I really think I will put it on reserve in the college library for interested students. Our library is sorely lacking in up-to-date material for students. Would you believe there is not one journal on drugs and alcohol, social problems, or criminal justice in a college library that has health-related majors and criminal justice (LE and corrections)? Luckily we have a new librarian who is not thrilled about having subscriptions to Redbook, etc. in lieu of academic material. The book selections are almost worse--I am thinking about contacting people and asking for donations of good academic material that is not too outdated. I know we have internet access which does help students stay current, but I still think we need books and journals in the library. Old-fashioned of me I guess. I am going to include membership in some associations that offer journals with their membership in my department budget and after reading them will make them available to students. I am in the process now of going through my bookshelves to try and find some books to donate to our library. Oh well, I guess that goes with the territory when you make the decision to go to a community college and choose to leave the comfortable, tenured positions in schools with graduate programs and privately endowed colleges. Perhaps, things will get better here now that all the public higher education institutions are now under one umbrella. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > Just keep the book, or give it to someone else who might like to read > it. And you are more than welcome. :) > > California has the strictest gun laws of any state in the union, and > kids, felons, anyone actually, can still get a hold of one without much > trouble at all. :( > > I will say that some of the counties now have the bullet law, which > means that you cannot buy any bullets without a three day wait, and a > check. I don't really think that it has made much difference though, > people are still getting killed and guns and bullets are still being > bought, maybe not legally, but they are still there. :( > > Also we have the new law that if you are involved in a crime, and a gun > is used and someone shot or killed, even if you don't even know about > the gun, you are guilty of the crime as though you were the one doing > the shooting. > > I have no idea if that has made any difference or not, but they do say > the crime rate is down. > > Sue > > > > Hi Sue > > > > I couldn't think of any legitimate reason for them to be made either--except war I > > guess. I do know that obtaining a gun legitimately here is not an easy task to > > do. They do have the time to run a thorough background check, which unfortunately > > may not be feasible in a large city. Gosh, when we moved here, we had to have the > > background check redone in order to have the target pistols. > > > > BTW--finished the book and will try and get it off next week. Did you want it sent > > to you or someone else?? I truly enjoyed the book. Thanks a million., > > > > jackief > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Arkansas/Mitchell Johnson was Re: L&I Supreme Court-Polygraphs/additional info
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue I just heard about the alleged sexual abuse of Mitchell. Posted before I read your other posts. Boy, there is sure a lot of stuff on the history of the family coming out, and like always--nothing was done at the time. But, you never really know if you should interfere so guess you can't say anything now. I know Tom (my colleague) now questions himself as to whether if he had done more, this tragedy wouldn't have happened. So I image many are feeling that way. As far as the reactions by those in Jonesboro, I guess it is like any other terrible crime--there are two extreme camps and a lot of people in the middle wondering really what did occur tp trigger this and what the best possible way of dealing with it is. I guess, like Mitchell's father, I do not think Mitchell could or would be rehabilitated in five years and should not be released when he turns 18. I only wish people would begin to question what rehabilitation actually exists for juveniles when they are sent to juvenile correctional facilities. Perhaps, out of this tragedy something positive could happen--it sure hasn't happened when these horrendous crimes have been occurring in our inner cities--just sweep it under the rug, until it really hits 'middle-class' America. Sorry to be cynical, here, but it sure seems this is the pattern in history. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > I grew up with guns and rifles around me too. And hunting was just > something that my dad, uncles, and their friends did. My dad made sure > we all knew how to handle guns and shoot when we were really young. But > I think it was a different time. You didn't hear of kids shooting each > other, or even the drive bys, etc that are going on now. :( > > I just read the TIME article and the mother certainly isn't helping the > situation any, IMO. Of course I don't know how I would act if it were > one of my kids that had done this, either. > > Another article that I just read says that the boy was sexually molested > when he was young. The living conditions that these people lived in > certainly aren't all that good either. > > What is strange is that you hear on television that the people in the > area don't want these kids treated as adults, they almost forgive them > for what happened. And then you read in the papers and such that the > kids are getting death threats. > > It really is a sad situation, and the worst part, IMO, is that no matter > what happens neither kid is going to get help, and will probably come > out of juvenile detention in 4-7 years a lot worse than when they went > in. > > Sue > > > Hi Sue > > > > It is true about growing up with guns in this neck of the woods. Hunting is > > almost a given if you ask someone their hobbies. It is not unusual to go into > > someone's house and the first thing you see are the hunting and fishing trophies > > (mounted of course). I think that is why it is so shocking to many in this area > > when they read of guns being used to kill others. Not that it doesn't happen, of > > course. We have a murder right now that is going to trial where two young men > > went over and shot another young man. I guess the only difference is that the > > feeling is "lock'em up and throw away the key." > > > > The stories here are about the same--some say he was an angel; others he was a > > little devil. One reason may be that the father lived in Grand Meadow and the > > grandparents in Spring Valley, I believe. Maybe Mitchell behaved differently in > > each community. > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
L&I Re: Mitchell Johnson--victim of sexual abuse
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi all Just on the news this morning. Said he was abused repetitively by a relative of the day care center he was in when 6 and/or 7. That's is really all I heard--imagine there will be more. jackief -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re:School days, school days..
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Sue LOL--we didn't lose her underwear, she did. The elastic on the waistband must have gave way and she was monitoring the convocation. Down they came around her ankles, her mouth dropped and of course those of us who had seen this happen said quite loudly--Oh Sister Josephina, be careful you don't trip. Of course everyone around turned to see. Somehow I think that all the mischevous makers of that time were all in my class. We were the last graduating class from the old' mansion as they were building a brand new school in the suburbs, so maybe we wanted to leave more of a mark on the history of the school. : ). We did do some silly things though--we had to I guess, there were no boys at the high school, as Catholic high schools then were all segregated by sex in MN, except for St Michael's. jackief Sue Hartigan wrote: > Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Hi Jackie: > > Ok Now you have to tell me how you lost the nun's underwear. That I > have to know. > > The Catholic schools I went to certainly were not as much fun as that. > :) > > Sue > > > > Hi Bill > > > > LOL--those nuns could be wily couldn't they. But, in high school we had > > some that were a little different in their own way. Of course, we were > > somewhat cruel now that I think of it. We painted a chicken's toes with > > nailpolish when the biology teacher passed a leg around so we could see how > > the tendons, etc. worked. By the time she got it back, she was livid. We > > locked her out of the classroom one day and then played dumb after she got > > the janitor to open the door. When she lost her underwear at a convocation, > > instead of being quiet we called attention to her. What terrible teens we > > were. > > > > There are so many stories that so many people have about the silly things we > > did in school. It is too bad that for many there will not be those fun > > memories. Wish there was more that we could do about that. > > > > jackief > > -- > Two rules in life: > > 1. Don't tell people everything you know. > 2. > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re:School days, school days..
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill LOL--those nuns could be wily couldn't they. But, in high school we had some that were a little different in their own way. Of course, we were somewhat cruel now that I think of it. We painted a chicken's toes with nailpolish when the biology teacher passed a leg around so we could see how the tendons, etc. worked. By the time she got it back, she was livid. We locked her out of the classroom one day and then played dumb after she got the janitor to open the door. When she lost her underwear at a convocation, instead of being quiet we called attention to her. What terrible teens we were. There are so many stories that so many people have about the silly things we did in school. It is too bad that for many there will not be those fun memories. Wish there was more that we could do about that. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > I think the smarter students were the worst behaved because they got > bored. LOL..I say that because I was probably the worst of the lot. > > In 5th grade I had worked out a neat system of bouncing hunks of pencil > erasers (I chewed them off) off the blackboard (it was green, whey did > they call it a blackboard?) and into the vicinity of the nun sitting at > her desk. Of course she'd always look in the direction the eraser bit > came from and jump on some poor kid sitting over there. The kid kept > protesting and even told her I was doing it. Finally I got caught. > Frankly, I think she saw me throw it out of the corner of her eye. But > to make a point, and to look clever, she took out a protractor and acted > as if she was measuring the angle from the blackboard. Of course, she > turned and the protractor pointed directly at me. The jig was up. > > Bill > > On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 12:49:48 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill > > > >I guess the education I got was worth it, even if I do cringe > >whenever a > >blackboard eraser or ruler is picked up. Yep, you guessed it, I was > >not a > >model student. My parents were called about the "heretic" they were > >raising. Questioning was not fashionable in those days > > > >jackief > > > >William J. Foristal wrote: > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > >> > >> Hi Jackie. > >> > >> I only ran into a few nuns who were very strict, bordering on what > >we > >> kids labeled as mean and cruel. By eighth grade I ran into a few > >who > >> used physical punishment. > >> > >> In high school they used more severe physical punishment. Much of > >which > >> would be considered criminal by today's standards. But we all > >survived > >> it. :) > >> > >> Bill > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re: Reply from Iacono on the polygraph survey
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill I don't think anyone was discounting the polygraph if used under strict procedures and with the knowledge that many other extraneous things can affect the readings. However, putting blind faith into these things is not "my cup of tea" simply because there is still too much controversy about them. Honts, even although implicitly, verified that in he realized as a lie detector he needed more education to really be able to use them properly. This was after he had had education in administering the polygraph after training in local law enforcement and with the FBI. And, most examiners do not have the FBI training, let alone the other more advanced training. I wonder if the experts would have enough time to get on the list for a period of time?? But, it is worth asking them if I get a chance to meet them. Mentioned I had wrote to Iacono to some of the other psychology teachers here and they said "Not the, Iacono!" I was happy that he took the time to answer our questions. Well, better get off for a little bit--don't want the red glare to get too much for your eyes : ) We have another minor "court problem" now in this area--whether the hearing impaired are receiving the assistance in court they need by having a skilled signer to interpret for them. Our poor court system is taking a beating--first the release of the preadjudication records, now this. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > Well it is really interesting to read the actual words of these > scientists who are involved in this research. I was never discounting > the value of lie detector tests with respect to their role in the > judicial process as well as security clearances/job application/ et al. > My question was why should we be expected to rely on the results of a > single study based on a amicus curiae brief that showed lie detector > tests to be accurate more than 90% of the time. Certainly there is a lot > of research done in this area and the more we know about and hear from > those doing the research the more we'll be able to assess how lie > detector tests may fit into the overall scheme of things. > > You know what would really be interesting? To convince some of your > contacts to spend a week on the law list to answer questions and lend > their expertise to enlighten us. Perhaps you and Kathy could work > something out along these lines. I bet a lot of people would be > interested. > > I'll have to go now. That red glare is starting to blind me. :) > > Bill > > On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 13:06:41 -0500 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi Bill > > > >You have me blushing over here (and that means the whole body as you > >know > >what I wear computing . I guess being in the academic field > >does have > >its advantages at time. When I wrote to him, I relied on the > >professional > >network. > > > >I think I am going to try and get Lykken's book on antisocial > >personalities. > >Lukken and Iacono are truly amazing--they are psychophysiologists and > >clinical psychologists--what a combination. In addition, both are > >involved > >in that huge twin study being carried on at the U of MN. Lykken is > >the PI > >of the study.I like their attitude about the nature vrs. nurture > >controversy. They term it "nature via nurture" I think that is how > >they > >phrase it. I am thinking of trying to get in direct contact with them > >if I > >can the next time I attend conferences, workshops or continuing > >education at > >the U. I may get to spend a week there on campus attending a great > >course on > >population, environment and ? (something else) this summer so that > >would be a > >good opportunity I think if they are around. Will have to forgo the > >immigration one they offer, darn, but Seattle sounds nicer. > > > >jackief > > > > _ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Jones Case Dismissed
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Terry Did you watch the interview with Susan McDougal? I don't know where you got your information, but she said that the only way she could walk out was to tell the story the way Starr wanted her to--not to agree to testify, but to testify the way he wanted. She said if she did that and testified the way Starr wanted the story that she would be open to perjury, not open to perjury for telling the truth. Hi Sue: I don't think Susan can do anything as she was a witness for Whitewater, I think. Did she have anything to do with the Paula Jones fiasco? jackief [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Hi Sue, > > >Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >If this whole thing goes down the tubes would Susan McDougal have any > >grounds for a law suit. She was held in jail for refusing to say what > >Starr wanted her to say, > > Totally untrue. This is nonsense. Susan McDougal could have opened the > cell doors at any time she wanted. All she needed to do was agree to > testify - and do so. > > She claimed that testifying truthfully would open her to charges of perjury. > But perjury, like any other charges, have to be proven. She was willing to > spend 18 months under horrible conditions to avoid a perjury conviction (for > telling the truth yet) that would like entail no jail time? Make sense to you? > > Susan McDougal was caught between Starr and Clinton. Either Clinton had > offered her inducements or she was frightened of implicating him. You tell > me what other possible reason there was for her actions. > > although she did say over and over that she > >didn't know of any wrong doing. > > > >I know I am stretching with this but I was just wondering. :) > > > >Sue > Best, Terry > > "Lawyer - one trained to circumvent the law" - The Devil's Dictionary > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues -- In the sociology room the children learn that even dreams are colored by your perspective I toss and turn all night.Theresa Burns, "The Sociology Room" Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
Re: L&I Re: Reply from Iacono on the polygraph survey
Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Bill You have me blushing over here (and that means the whole body as you know what I wear computing . I guess being in the academic field does have its advantages at time. When I wrote to him, I relied on the professional network. I think I am going to try and get Lykken's book on antisocial personalities. Lukken and Iacono are truly amazing--they are psychophysiologists and clinical psychologists--what a combination. In addition, both are involved in that huge twin study being carried on at the U of MN. Lykken is the PI of the study.I like their attitude about the nature vrs. nurture controversy. They term it "nature via nurture" I think that is how they phrase it. I am thinking of trying to get in direct contact with them if I can the next time I attend conferences, workshops or continuing education at the U. I may get to spend a week there on campus attending a great course on population, environment and ? (something else) this summer so that would be a good opportunity I think if they are around. Will have to forgo the immigration one they offer, darn, but Seattle sounds nicer. jackief William J. Foristal wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes: > > Hi Jackie, > > At the risk of showing admiration I wanted to congratulate you on getting > this kind of first hand information for us. Even though you had > effectively blown the other side out of the water with your other > references, this really puts the icing on the cake. > > Good job! > > Your admirer, > > Bill > > On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:39:20 -0600 Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > >Jackie Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > >Hi all > > > >I promise to let you know what Iacono replied if he did. Here it is > >verbatim, I > >copied it and insert his reply. (Aren't you proud of me Kathy). > >Happy > >reading!! > > > >jackief > > > > > > > >William G. Iacono wrote: > > > >> Thanks for sending me the info on Honts criticisms of our work. The > >> criticisms are without merit and hardly deserve acknowledgement, and > >I don't > >> have time to point out why all of them are off base. But consider > >the > >> following... > >> > >> In the published account of the survey (Journal of Applied > >Psychology, > >> 1997), we point out that because the survey was prepared for a book > >chapter > >> that Raskin, Honts and Kircher as well as Iacono and Lykken were > >> contributing to, we eliminated ourselves as well as them from the > >survey > >> pool (presumably our opinions were well represented in our > >contributions to > >> this book). Since there were almost 200 hundred respondents to the > >survey, > >> it is not possible for the elimination of ourselves or them to have > >had any > >> significant effect on the outcome. > >> > >> Second, we agreed to share the data with Honts and Amato provided > >certain > >> conditions were met, such as there having their request reviewed by > >their > >> university IRB (the Board that approves research with humans as > >meeting > >> ethical standards). Apparently they didn't like the conditions. > >> > >> Third, when we examined the results of our survey for just well > >informed > >> respondents, the results were not significantly different from those > >of less > >> well informed respondents for almost all of the questions, including > >the one > >> about which of the 4 statements "best describes your own opinion of > >> polygraph test interpretations" that was asked on all three surveys. > >In the > >> Gallup survey, comparing more informed to less informed respondents > >also > >> produced no significant differences as a result of how informed > >respondents > >> were. Only the Amato and Honts survey, to which only a third of > >those polled > >> responded, found a difference between more and less informed > >respondents. > >> This response anomaly is most likely due to their having a sample > >that is > >> not comparable to those in the other two surveys because it is not > >> representative. > >> > >> I hope this information is useful to you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >In the sociology room the children learn > >that even dreams are colored by your perspective > > > >I toss and turn all night.Theresa Bu
