Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[David Szent-Györgyi]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-5 David Szent-Györgyi wrote:

> For more straightforward scripting engine uses, there's always Lua, though 
> the 
>> fork of Lua done to implement a JIT  trails the main 
>> implementation . There is an interesting offshoot 
>> of the language that is aimed at systems programming . 
>>
>
On Monday, January 31, 2022 at 12:04:25 PM UTC-5 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ah, Lua!  I think I last tried it back before I had even encountered  
> Python, but back then I didn't really have a need for it. Maybe I should 
> revisit it.  I would want at least some equivalent for numpy and a gui 
> system like Qt.  I gather that wxWindows is a possibility among others.
>

>From a Web search for the words "Lua" and "Numpy":

Lua Equivalent for NumPy and SciPy? - Stack Overflow 


Convert Torch Lua into Numpy Python - Stack Overflow 


That spurs a search for the words "Torch" and "Lua", which is fruitful, if 
frustrating in the end. From the Wikipedia article on Torch 
: 
Torch is an open-source machine learning library, a scientific computing 
framework, and a script language based on the Lua programming language. It 
provides a wide range of algorithms for deep learning, and uses the 
scripting language LuaJIT , and an 
underlying C implementation. It was created at IDIAP at EPFL. As of 2018, 
Torch is no longer in active development. However PyTorch 
, which is based on the Torch 
library, is actively developed as of June 2021.

PyTorch has language bindings for Python and for C++. I read that there is 
information available on calling C++ functions from Lua, but I don't know 
how easy that is, given the reliance of C++ on mangling names. 

There's also SciLua , which I read is most easily 
installed with the ULua distribution of LuaJIT . I'm not 
sure that falling back on a specific distribution of a minority 
implementation of Lua promises greater ease than pursuing a minority 
implementation of Python, alas. 

More on Torch below. 

>From Torch | Scientific computing for LuaJIT. :
Torch is a scientific computing framework with wide support for machine 
learning algorithms that puts GPUs first. It is easy to use and efficient, 
thanks to an easy and fast scripting language, LuaJIT, and an underlying 
C/CUDA implementation.

A summary of core features:

   - a powerful N-dimensional array
   - lots of routines for indexing, slicing, transposing, …
   - amazing interface to C, via LuaJIT
   - linear algebra routines
   - neural network, and energy-based models
   - numeric optimization routines
   - Fast and efficient GPU support
   - Embeddable, with ports to iOS and Android backends


>From Lua and Torch - Artificial Inteligence - GitBook 

:
Torch is a scientific computing framework based on Lua with CPU and GPU 
backends. You can imagine like a Numpy but with CPU and GPU implementation. 
Some nice features:

   - Efficient linear algebra functions with GPU support
   - Neural Network package, with automatic differentiation (No need to 
   backpropagate manually)
   - Multi-GPU support
   
Lua Torch :: Anaconda.org 

Get Lua running with Torch on Windows 10 with limited Admin rights - Stack 
Overflow 


Lua & Torch Tutorial - luckylwk.github.io 


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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[tbp1...@gmail.com]

>
> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-5 David Szent-Györgyi wrote:
>>
>>> Jython support for Python3 is planned 
>>>  and roadmapped 
>>> . 
>>>
>>
>> Yes, and have you noticed the huge amount of work those plans will 
>> entail?  I don't see it getting competed in the near future, I'm sorry to 
>> say. 
>>
>
> Like you, I thought those plans call for a lot of work, and completion 
> might be some time off. Part of that might be the ever-growing complexity 
> of Python3, which is accruing features that cannot be implemented simply, 
> thereby complicating maintenance of minority implementations such as Jython 
> and IronPython. 
>
> I greatly admire the tasteful engineering that I see in the choices that 
> Guido van Rossum made in earlier releases. For example, an operating system 
> that supports multi-tasking well relieves the need for multi-threading. 
>

I worry that Python has been adding too many complex features too quickly.  
But then, I suppose you don't have to use them.

>
> For more straightforward scripting engine uses, there's always Lua, though 
> the 
> fork of Lua done to implement a JIT  trails the main 
> implementation . There is an interesting offshoot of 
> the language that is aimed at systems programming . 
>

Ah, Lua!  I think I last tried it back before I had even encountered  
Python, but back then I didn't really have a need for it. Maybe I should 
revisit it.  I would want at least some equivalent for numpy and a gui 
system like Qt.  I gather that wxWindows is a possibility among others.

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[David Szent-Györgyi]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 5:18:15 PM UTC-5 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-5 David Szent-Györgyi wrote:
>
>> Jython support for Python3 is planned 
>>  and roadmapped 
>> . 
>>
>
> Yes, and have you noticed the huge amount of work those plans will 
> entail?  I don't see it getting competed in the near future, I'm sorry to 
> say. 
>

Like you, I thought those plans call for a lot of work, and completion 
might be some time off. Part of that might be the ever-growing complexity 
of Python3, which is accruing features that cannot be implemented simply, 
thereby complicating maintenance of minority implementations such as Jython 
and IronPython. 

I greatly admire the tasteful engineering that I see in the choices that 
Guido van Rossum made in earlier releases. For example, an operating system 
that supports multi-tasking well relieves the need for multi-threading. 

For more straightforward scripting engine uses, there's always Lua, though the 
fork of Lua done to implement a JIT  trails the main 
implementation . There is an interesting offshoot of 
the language that is aimed at systems programming . 

Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm wandering far afield, sorry for trespassing. I'll 
come quietly, officer! 

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:10 AM tbp1...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> That setting is not among the settings listed in the output of
> Settings/Show Settings/Show-Settings.


[M] @  bool checkforchangedexternalfiles = True

The name shown is the "dictionary" name, with "-" and "_" deleted.

In any case, leoSettings.leo contains the primary data, and the data are
organized by subject.

Edward

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[tbp1...@gmail.com]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-5 David Szent-Györgyi wrote:

> Jython support for Python3 is planned 
>  and roadmapped 
> . 
>

Yes, and have you noticed the huge amount of work those plans will entail?  
I don't see it getting competed in the near future, I'm sorry to say. 

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[tbp1...@gmail.com]

The Graal system can also run jython or jython-like code to some degree.  
They added some improved support for inheriting from jython/pythonIntroduction 
to GraalVM classes in java at 
my request.  See, e.g., Inheritance from Java 

.

In my case, I have to run under Tomcat.  It seems that Graal now 
supports/is supported by Tomcat to some degree at least:  GraalVM 20.0: Run 
Tomcat as Native Image on Windows 
.  
It's a terrific accomplishment, but I seriously doubt that I could get my 
using agencies to start using Graal with Tomcat.  Still, it might be worth 
looking at for ImageJ.

For those not familiar with Graal, "GraalVM is a high-performance JDK 
distribution designed to accelerate the execution of applications written 
in Java and other JVM languages along with support for JavaScript, Ruby, 
Python, and a number of other popular languages. GraalVM’s polyglot 
capabilities make it possible to mix multiple programming languages in a 
single application while eliminating foreign language call costs." - 
Introduction 
to GraalVM .

The polyglot capability might make it really interesting for Leo if only it 
could support major Python libraries like QT, numpy, etc.  Here's someone 
showing the use of numpy with Graal: 
https://abvijaykumar.medium.com/building-graalvm-native-image-of-a-polyglot-java-numpy-application-a7288740409e,
 
so maybe it can be done.  Wouldn't it be wonderful to mix java, Python, R, 
and javascript code in one Leo subtree, and execute it within Leo!
On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-5 David Szent-Györgyi wrote:

> On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 6:01:43 AM UTC-5 Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 3:08 PM tbp1...@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The project is a Tomcat web application that uses mixed java and 
>>> Jython.  
>>
>>
>> VSCode probably allows you to use python 2 for some projects. I am not 
>> going to support python 2 in Leo, but a plugin could do so.
>>
>
> Jython  is one of the languages in which macros 
> are written for the ImageJ  image processing and 
> analysis software, and important as such. Jython support for Python3 is 
> planned  and roadmapped 
> . 
>
> Another significant implementation of Python for which Python3 compliance 
> is a work in progress is IronPython , which runs 
> native on the Dynamic Language Runtime for .NET. The implementation is open 
> source, source code for IronPython2, IronPython3, and the Dynamic 
> Language Runtime is on GitHub . The 
> current forum for for developers and users a Gitter discussion group 
> . 
>
> I work on ImageJ macros, using Jython when I can. I work with .NET-based 
> applications for which IronPython is the macro language.  Those macros are 
> short enough that they don't need an outliner, and the host applications 
> provide the IDE. 
>

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[David Szent-Györgyi]

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 6:01:43 AM UTC-5 Edward K. Ream wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 3:08 PM tbp1...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> The project is a Tomcat web application that uses mixed java and Jython.  
>
>
> VSCode probably allows you to use python 2 for some projects. I am not 
> going to support python 2 in Leo, but a plugin could do so.
>

Jython  is one of the languages in which macros 
are written for the ImageJ  image processing and 
analysis software, and important as such. Jython support for Python3 is 
planned  and roadmapped 
. 

Another significant implementation of Python for which Python3 compliance 
is a work in progress is IronPython , which runs 
native on the Dynamic Language Runtime for .NET. The implementation is open 
source, source code for IronPython2, IronPython3, and the Dynamic Language 
Runtime is on GitHub . The current forum 
for for developers and users a Gitter discussion group 
. 

I work on ImageJ macros, using Jython when I can. I work with .NET-based 
applications for which IronPython is the macro language.  Those macros are 
short enough that they don't need an outliner, and the host applications 
provide the IDE. 

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[tbp1...@gmail.com]

That setting is not among the settings listed in the output of 
Settings/Show Settings/Show-Settings.  I now, after your post,  see that it 
is included in leoSettings.leo, where I had to try various guesses as to 
what the setting might be called before finally noticing it.  I started 
searching for "syntax", and eventually tried "check".

Seems to me that the menu item to show settings should at least show all of 
the ones in leoSettings.leo, if not more.

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 8:05:07 AM UTC-5 Edward K. Ream wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 7:30 AM tbp1...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> Probably being able to disable automatic syntax checking in an outline 
>> would be enough.  Is there a setting to do that?
>>
>
> @bool check-python-code-on-write
>
> In future, please search for settings before asking about them.
>
> Edward
>

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[Edward K. Ream]

On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 7:30 AM tbp1...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Probably being able to disable automatic syntax checking in an outline
> would be enough.  Is there a setting to do that?
>

@bool check-python-code-on-write

In future, please search for settings before asking about them.

Edward

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[tbp1...@gmail.com]

Probably being able to disable automatic syntax checking in an outline 
would be enough.  Is there a setting to do that?

On Monday, January 17, 2022 at 6:01:43 AM UTC-5 Edward K. Ream wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 3:08 PM tbp1...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> The project is a Tomcat web application that uses mixed java and Jython.  
>
>
> VSCode probably allows you to use python 2 for some projects. I am not 
> going to support python 2 in Leo, but a plugin could do so.
>
> Edward
>

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 3:08 PM tbp1...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> The project is a Tomcat web application that uses mixed java and Jython.


VSCode probably allows you to use python 2 for some projects. I am not
going to support python 2 in Leo, but a plugin could do so.

Edward

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[tbp1...@gmail.com]

The project is a Tomcat web application that uses mixed java and Jython.  
Most of the work is done with Jython, but there are some things that need 
java.  In some places, java code calls Jython objects and methods, in other 
places Jython code calls into java. It works great. I've been supporting 
and slowly developing this application since about 2007.  There is zero 
chance I would ever convert it to all java, that would be too unpleasant to 
contemplate (and my client would not want to cover the cost to do it).

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 2:37:00 PM UTC-5 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:

> Can't do it for at least one case.  The code is Jython 2.7, and it will be 
> a long time, if ever, before Jython gets up to 3+.
>
> On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5 Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 12:20 PM tbp1...@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Now that Leo is Python 3.6+ only, there is a question about using it to 
>>> maintain old Python 2.x code, of which I have some that can't be converted 
>>> to Python 3.6+.  The issue, of course, is that checkers like flake8 will 
>>> report errors which aren't actual errors for 2.7 code.  This is a best a 
>>> nuisance and at worst might lead to failure to save files.
>>>
>>> What's the best way to handle these older Python files in Leo?
>>>
>>
>> Convert them to python 3.x.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[tbp1...@gmail.com]

Can't do it for at least one case.  The code is Jython 2.7, and it will be 
a long time, if ever, before Jython gets up to 3+.

On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5 Edward K. Ream wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 12:20 PM tbp1...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> Now that Leo is Python 3.6+ only, there is a question about using it to 
>> maintain old Python 2.x code, of which I have some that can't be converted 
>> to Python 3.6+.  The issue, of course, is that checkers like flake8 will 
>> report errors which aren't actual errors for 2.7 code.  This is a best a 
>> nuisance and at worst might lead to failure to save files.
>>
>> What's the best way to handle these older Python files in Leo?
>>
>
> Convert them to python 3.x.
>
> Edward
>

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Re: Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[Edward K. Ream]

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 12:20 PM tbp1...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Now that Leo is Python 3.6+ only, there is a question about using it to
> maintain old Python 2.x code, of which I have some that can't be converted
> to Python 3.6+.  The issue, of course, is that checkers like flake8 will
> report errors which aren't actual errors for 2.7 code.  This is a best a
> nuisance and at worst might lead to failure to save files.
>
> What's the best way to handle these older Python files in Leo?
>

Convert them to python 3.x.

Edward

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Managing Python 2.7 Code In Leo

[tbp1...@gmail.com]

Now that Leo is Python 3.6+ only, there is a question about using it to 
maintain old Python 2.x code, of which I have some that can't be converted 
to Python 3.6+.  The issue, of course, is that checkers like flake8 will 
report errors which aren't actual errors for 2.7 code.  This is a best a 
nuisance and at worst might lead to failure to save files.

What's the best way to handle these older Python files in Leo?

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