Re: Should Canoeboot become GNU Canoeboot?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

I agree

LibreBoot makes sense as a name,  and makes it clear what it does.  One 
of the issues with Free (and some open source) software the name has 
nothing to do with what the program does,  hence people can  sometimes 
never remember the name of software.


Makes it more of a barrier to wider adoption

Paul

On 12/05/2024 23:10, Andy Tai wrote:

why not just call it GNU Libreboot.   The Libreboot name is well known.
Suggestion: Accept Libreboot as GNU. Leave GNU Boot alone. If that
project is dead, let it die.  Do not force its developers to do
anything one way or another.

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Re: Solutions to help organisations mirror their antisocial media posts to mastodon?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

   On 26/12/2023 23:16, Abe Indoria wrote:

   On Tue, Dec 26, 2023, 2:55 PM Yuchen Pei <[1]i...@ypei.org> wrote:

 Not really. There are plenty of people with reasonable things to say
 on xitter who for whatever reason stayed there.

   Amusingly, when I was setting up a firefish instance for activitypub, I
   took a look at mastodon.social (to see if I wanted to federate with it
   or follow anyone there), their 'default-go-to' recommended instance,
   and found absurdly similar level of toxicity there too. Politician this
   that, Person this that etc. A ton of boosted comments were fairly
   similar to what you'd find on say, X as constant 'anger-engagements.'
   So I wholeheartedly agree. There are people on X that focus on what
   they do best and are really good accounts (Depths of Wikipedia for
   example), and similar on many ActivityPub instances. It's just a very
   YMMV at this moment.
   abe

   I agree with this,  I would guess the main point we can try and push
   with the Fediverse is the ability to not simply block users but due to
   the centralized nature,  we can as users block whole instances.

   I think the reason mastodon.social is a hub for so much activity is
   that for a while it was pushed as the instance to go to,  possibly in
   an attempted to help people who find it difficult to grasp the idea of
   instances and you can choose which  instance to be on,  This is
   understandable as it is a different model to what people are used to,
   and most beginner IT courses probably make little mention of federated
   services.

   paul

   ,

References

   1. mailto:i...@ypei.org
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Re: Solutions to help organisations mirror their antisocial media posts to mastodon?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

   I have been using fediverse for a number of years, so maybe to address
   a few points here:

   1. To me, the purpose of a bot account is to usually facilitate the
   sharing of say a blog post to the Fediverse services. However those
   posts still need interaction.

   You can follow my blog via activity pub, but if you reply I can see
   that reply from my account and reply. Surely this works equally if the
   fsf make a post, I reply and someone then interacts with my post, esp
   if asking a question or just saying 'good work' to the latest video for
   example.

   The interactions on Mastodon for example are far better than what I
   experienced on main stream social media.

   I am not sure where the term 'anti social media' has come from,
   federated services are still social media, just built on a more
   decentralized, privacy friendly model.

   "but a bridge/client on mastodon to xitter should simply be able to
   allow users
to subscribe to any xitter accounts they like, get their posts,
comment/boost them etc without filtering/promotion by xitter."

   From what I can gather looking at Mastodon posts about X, is that it is
   a toxic , far right cesspit, so being able to follow posts on there
   could be controversial, Meta has plans for Threads to federate, however
   the opinion on the fediverse is do we want to give Meta access to our
   data, posts which so if this does happen Threads could find it can only
   interact with a few instances OR is de federated fully.

   If you are going to join the fediverse, then maybe one needs to be on
   there and interact with people and followers.

   On the subject of what is happening, there are people stuck on
   mainstream platforms as this is where their followers are, but as
   Twitter and now Substack are seen as very toxic people are trying to
   leave.

   For most people this is probably easy for people who rely on social
   media to promote their (source of income) , they risk losing (and do
   lose) a huge chunk of income if they leave, so they have to stay on
   toxic platforms where they don't feel safe. They are really stuck.

   There does seem to be a need to address this.

   Paul


Fediverse doesn't seem to like bots and mirrorring accounts much, and
this is what this creates.  I don't like much that it gives Xitter more
visibility and power,


How does it give Xitter more visibility and power?

Their power to filter/promote and thus influence gets extended further,
onto the Fediverse.

Hold on a moment. AFAIK if you check a xitter account on nitter, or
follow multiple xitter accounts through Squawker, you get a timeline
which is a anti-chronological list of posts by these accounts with no
dodgy algorithm. I don't know what it is like on xitter itself, but a
bridge/client on mastodon to xitter should simply be able to allow users
to subscribe to any xitter accounts they like, get their posts,
comment/boost them etc without filtering/promotion by xitter.


[... 4 lines elided]

Best,
Yuchen

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References

   1. https://ypei.org/
   2. https://ypei.org/assets/ypei-pubkey.txt
   3. mailto:libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
   4. https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
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Re: Are websites closing down en masse?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

I am not too sure if my experience counts here,  but yes I agree there 
are a fair number of broken links out there.


I have maintained my own website / blog for a number of years. For a 
long time this ran on Wordpress, until the person who maintained the 
hosting was no longer able to carry on.  The website was therefore 
lost.   I moved to writefreely which uses (personaljournal.ca)


In both cases I could post links to posts on forums, etc, as part of the 
post,  clearly if the linked post was on word press the link would 
fail.   I think other would link to my posts too.


With my current blog,  I post about local football team training, I am 
starting to try and purge old posts.  I feel  there is no point in 
keeping an old post that is just there to remind people of a training 
session 2 or 3 weeks ago, let alone months. So I just delete the post.


On a similar note,  If I share an update say a debian point release for 
10.x why keep this beyond the life of that OS.


I did set up a team blog on paper.wf (which again is hosted on 
writefreely.  however this site also stopped working, so my site was lost.


If there is a protocol on what we are meant to do, I am not aware of it

But yeah it does seem to be a problem.

If a website is commercial, then that company has the funds to keep an 
archive for example, projects, individuals do not always have the 
funds,  so if funds run low,  then projects go if it means that person 
can pay for food, rent, clothing etc.


Perhaps this is why archive sites are important.

It is difficult,  I guess in terms of wikipedia posts, someone has to 
maintain the articles.


Paul


On 04/12/2023 03:53, Akira Urushibata wrote:

Recently I feel I frequently encounter defunct links.  Links to
external material toward the bottom of Wikipedia articles often turn
out to be unavailable.

I don't know if there is any empirical data on this.  I can provide an
example from a page I help maintain.  From what I see here I am pretty
sure that sites are closing down or pages are being culled en masse
for some reason:

https://netpbm.sourceforge.net

The ahove URL is the introductionary web page for the Netpbm software
package.  At the end of the page is a list of translations of the same
into various languages.

In early May this year I found out that out of 31 translations,
6 were not available:

   * Russian
   * Malay
   * Indonesian
   * German
   * Polish
   * Belarusian

A recent survey (late November) showed that 4 more translations
have disappeared:

   * Spanish
   * Urdu
   * Greek
   * Estonian

Out of 31 translations 10 or 32.5% have disappeared.  Only 21 remain.

There must be an explanation for the rapid loss of sites and pages.

Some sites hosting the translations look unrelated to system software.
Netpbm is well-known and links in the official Netpbm document pages
cause search engines to elevate the status of the liked pages and
their links.  In other words some people add the translations to their
sites for SEO.

One possibility I can think of is that hosting services are somehow
affected by inflation, higher interest rates and staff cutbacks at IT
firms.  If anybody has better insight on the matter I'd very much like
to learn.

Thank you for reading.

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Re: Solutions to help organisations mirror their antisocial media posts to mastodon?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

One of the nice things about posting to Mastodon is the fact people 
interact and comment on posts.   This is a two way process.


If you sell a product or offer a service and I ask about this on 
Facebook then surely someone would reply,  as a Mastodon user I would 
expect the same or similar level of interaction with posts, and yes,l 
this does require someone to be there to answer questions or comments on 
posts  Or in some cases if a user posted an offensive comment have this 
removed


I think this is one of the reasons people on Mastodon prefer this over 
mainstream social media,   quality of social interaction rather than 
quantity too


Paul

On 22/11/2023 01:22, Ron Nazarov via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

On 20/11/2023 12:55, Yuchen Pei wrote:

Hello librenauts,

Often when talking to people running organisations, they tend to cite
reach when asked why they only post on twitter, fecebook etc. However,
if they could automate mirroring their posts to mastodon they wouldn't
mind doing that. Some of these orgs even have a mastodon account, but
with barely any posts. Some of these people even despise twitter and
don't have a twitter account themselves.

So I wonder if there is a tool that automates toot for tweet
replication?


The FSF uses this script: https://vcs.fsf.org/?p=pdt.git;a=summary

FSF account names are hard-coded but the README says that a patch that 
makes them configurable would be accepted.



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Re: Truth Social as an example of the limits of free software

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

at we have much more to do than just call for
freedom in software.

In classical Chinese philosophy, Lao Zi stresses freedom.  Confucius
preaches sound education, consideration toward others, gratitude and
rituals.  Lao Zi advocates small communities of people living simple
lives.  Confucius and his followers refined a body of thought which
would later support imperial dynasties.  Unfortunately it became
excessively sophisticated.  Combined with a writing system which
employs more than a thousand characters this led to a stark class
distinction between the literate and the illiterate.

---

Truth Social - Wikipedia
(See "Software")
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_Social

Trump's Social Media Platform and the Affero General Public License
(of Mastodon) - Conservancy Blog - Software Freedom Conservancy
https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/oct/21/trump-group-agplv3/

The Trump Truth Social network removes the most freedom-friendly
features of the Fediverse
https://pocketnow.com/trump-truth-social-network-removes-most-freedom-friendly-features-fediverse/

On Trump's Truth Social: Ads for Miracle Cures, Scams and Fake
Merchandise
The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/27/technology/trump-truth-social-ads.html

Trump Media's proposed merger partner Digital World faces crucial vote
The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/02/truth-social-trump-media-digital-world/

How to Lose Money: Buy Digital World Acquisition Corp.
Morningstar
https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/how-lose-money-buy-digital-world-acquisition-corp

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Re: GPL on AI generated code

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

I would agree with this yes,  so if services such as ChatGPT change GPL 
code it remains under the GPL and should be released accordingly.


It may be the FSF need to check with the legal department on this, and 
amend the GPL licenses to suit if this needs to be explicitly stated.


I would also guess that creative commons should also be treated int he 
same way, so a picture under say  cc-by-sa (or similar) if modified by 
AI then this has to be released under the same license.


Paul


On 15/02/2023 21:17, Akira Urushibata wrote:

I recently read that Chat-GPT is capable of writing computer code.

Can ChatGPT Code? [With Examples] - Legiit Blog
https://legiit.com/blog/chat-gpt-code

   Chat GPT Code can help you do all sorts of things, from writing
   code to solving complex calculations. Here are a few of the
   cool things you can do with Chat GPT Code:

   1. Write Code for Different Languages - As mentioned earlier,
   Chat GPT Code currently supports Python, JavaScript and HTML,
   but it plans to add other languages soon.

   2. Debug Code - One user found that ChatGPT Code was an
   excellent debugging assistant as it allowed him to explain and
   fix a bug quickly.

   3. Develop Games - You can use Chat GPT Code to develop a game,
   which is an exciting and fun way to explore the capabilities of
   this chatbot.

   4. Solve Complex Calculations - ChatGPT can be used to solve
   complex calculations and equations. Just provide the correct
   commands and parameters, and Chat GPT Code will provide you
   with an accurate solution in a matter of seconds!

   ...

---

As I understand Chat-GPT does not compose code the way most
programmers do.  Rather it looks for code within its memory which
appear to fit the descriptions of what the user is requesting and
produces an answer.  This looks like an inductive, as opposed to a
deductive, process.

I have a question.  If the reference material is GPL'd code, shouldn't
the code produced by AI be considered a modified version?  Human beings
are free to modify GPL'd source code and distribute the result,
provided that the GPL is attached.  Is there some reason the same
restriction would not apply when a machine does the modification?

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Re: What search engine best at "Freedom-Respecting"?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

I would guess Duckduckgo is much better than the main search engines 
such as Google and Bing.  There are several such as SearX which are more 
decentralised, but can also be self hosted, which that comes with the 
price tag of time, resources, cost and effort to set up and maintain.


It probably depends what you want or are looking for.

Paul

On 02/12/2022 16:50, Don Saklad wrote:

What search engine best at "Freedom-Respecting"?

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Re: Rough times for Twitter

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 06/11/2022 22:44, Akira Urushibata wrote:

Twitter, now owned by Elon Musk, is going through a major upheaval.
According to Musk the company is losing 4 million dollars a day.
Half of the workforce will depart in a massive layoff, raising
concerns that there may not be enough staff left to monitor harmful
content.

Twitter is also exploring new venues of raising money.  One is
making authorized accounts, previously available to celebrities and
public officials for free, open to all for a charge.  Some are
worried that imposters make take advantage of this feature.
Twitter, with its urgent need to raise money, may prod a small team
to implement it as quickly as possible.

I request fellow list members to be on the alert.  Someone may
set up an account pretending to be Richard M Stallman or some other
influential programmer, and be granted verification.  The account may
not last long but significant damage can be done with no more than a
few tweets.

Elon Musk paid 44 billion dollars to acquire Twitter.  Many observers
now feel certain that the unreasonably high price has led to savage
cost-cutting measures.  What people don't notice is that Musk got much
free software as well.  More accurately he got access thereto in the
form of experienced engineers who know what free tools are available
and how best to apply them.  Many of them are now leaving Twitter
and that means the firm is losing access to free software.

Because free software is free (as in "free beer") the loss does not
immediately show up in the accounts.  Neither does the effect of any
inappropriate tweet made by the maverick owner.  Being invisible loss
of this nature evades the attention of most observers, especially
financial experts.  It is possible that even Elon Musk fails to
understand the extent of the problem, for as we all know, he is one
character especially fond of the money that he can count.



There has been a huge exodus to mastodon over the past few days, 
something like 60,000 users,  so this really does open up opportunities 
for the free software communities to help and support.


1. More instances to even the overall user load
2. Opportunities to help people develop the skills needed to run their 
own instance
3. Opportunities to open up discussions around free software, given that 
much of mastodon is based on GPL or similar licensing structures
4. Lets just share news, content etc on Mastodon, peertube etc and help 
each other share this content to these new users


We have the opportunity to make sure the conversation around any free 
software is positive,  so promoting LibreOffice or BBB or Jitsi as 
alternatives to teams / zoom etc.


Paul




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Re: Book Introducing Free Software to Laypeople

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi All

Thank you for this. Just to say firstly, I agree with Andrew here about 
me getting things messed up. This is a good reason for this project is 
to also help challenge areas were people don't quite understand something.


Hopefully, this project will be useful to people going forward.  I have 
also suggested on IRC that as there is the 
https://www.gnu.org/help/priority-projects.html which could be a way in 
for people to help with fsf once they are confident.


I think the idea of Lulu is good, as it provides an easy way to get 
printed documentation on demand,  so order a book,  it gets printed and 
sent to you.


Lets see what, as a community we can do.

Regards

Paul




On 06/07/2022 17:08, Andrew Yu via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

On 22/07/05 08:47PM, Nicholas Johnson via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

There is loads of free software, but relatively few people using it for
their personal computing. So I thought "Why not write a book
introducing laypeople to free software?" I'm not sure if something
like it has been done before.


This is quite a coincidence---zleap, Noisytoot and I have started
drafting such a book.  A basic draft is available at
git://git.andrewyu.org/zleap-guide.git, but many improvements are
needed.  As of now it primarily focuses on the command line, but I do
believe that a more general introduction to Free Software is
appropriate.  The main author/editor is zleap, he's really into
spreading ideas and participates in many computing-related clubs locally
near him, taking chances to introduce people (mainly younger people) to
Free Software.  However I do find that sometimes he can get some
concepts a bit messed up himself, so we work together in assistance to
try to provide more accurate information.  Maybe we could work together
on this, don't know.
  

I've never written a book before. I know little about publishing or
marketing, so it would be a first for me. I do have a few ideas:

* Use LibreOffice.


I find using LibreOffice for writing documents generally and especially
larger documents to be a bad idea.  Documents produced with word
processors are prone to subtle formatting problems, flexibility issues
(no true macro definitions), is quite bad at typography (i.e. does not
hyphenate at correct points many times and doesn't support kerning
properly) and is generally cumbersome.  For normal ``books'', I'd
probably use plain TeX or LaTeX.  In this specific case it may be very
helpful to produce both printed versions (with device independent
formats like TeX DVI, PostScript and Portable Document Format), World
Wide Web pages written in HTML, and plain text versions for people who
want those (i.e. me, for example).  GNU TeXinfo fits this job, and while
the info(1) online manual browser isn't that great, the format is easily
compilable to LaTeX (then to PDF for example), HTML, and plain text,
with outstanding typography for the PDF as it uses LaTeX and TeX under
the hood, and still enough flexibility more than possible with
LibreOffice for other formats.


* Make the book available both as a hard copy and as an eBook.
* Make the eBook available as a pdf and epub.
* Design a website for the book.


TeXinfo is quite good at this.  I haven't tried to produce ePub output
before, however I know for a fact it's doable without much hassle with
TeXinfo and Pandoc.


* Design a cover page and edit the book.


Sure!


* Integrate the lulu API into the website?


I have absolutely no idea what that is.  A quick WWW search told me that
it's a HTTP RESTful API for printing?  Why is this needed?


I'll probably pay people to do the cover page design, website design,
and edit the book. The target demographic is non-techie software users
and the goal is inspiring them to use free software for their personal
computing.


You could probably also rely on volunteers in the Free Software
community first, many of us would be really happy to help.


I don't have a detailed outline of the book yet, but I think the first
chapter should get the reader interested in free software and point out
some ways proprietary software harms them. Then, in the later chapters
after the reader is hooked, I'll tie it all together by explaining the
philosophy of free software. I don't want to start with the philosophy.
I feel that may come off as preachy, too abstract, and turn people off.


Agreed.

--
Andrew Yu <https://www.andrewyu.org/>


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Re: Book Introducing Free Software to Laypeople

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

Not sure what is needed here

We already have books on LibreOffice and debian

https://books.libreoffice.org/en/
https://debian-handbook.info/download/stable/debian-handbook.pdf

So lots of books and resources are out there.

Richard Stallman has also penned books on free software.

If we look in to why people don't use free software, one reason could be 
people don't know something exists unless we tell them.


So it may be worth,  trying to get these books / resources in to public 
libraries,  you don't need the whole libreoffice series,  maybe simply 
writer and getting started guides.


Maybe put up posters too.  But face to face advocacy works,  you can 
challenge misconceptions and answer questions there and then.


Paul


On 06/07/2022 02:47, Nicholas Johnson via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

There is loads of free software, but relatively few people using it for
their personal computing. So I thought "Why not write a book
introducing laypeople to free software?" I'm not sure if something
like it has been done before.

I've never written a book before. I know little about publishing or
marketing, so it would be a first for me. I do have a few ideas:

* Use LibreOffice.
* Make the book available both as a hard copy and as an eBook.
* Make the eBook available as a pdf and epub.
* Design a cover page and edit the book.
* Design a website for the book.
* Integrate the lulu API into the website?

I'll probably pay people to do the cover page design, website design,
and edit the book. The target demographic is non-techie software users
and the goal is inspiring them to use free software for their personal
computing.

I don't have a detailed outline of the book yet, but I think the first
chapter should get the reader interested in free software and point out
some ways proprietary software harms them. Then, in the later chapters
after the reader is hooked, I'll tie it all together by explaining the
philosophy of free software. I don't want to start with the philosophy.
I feel that may come off as preachy, too abstract, and turn people off.

I'm posting here because I'd like some community input so I can
represent free software in a good way. It would be good to have a few
people to send draft copies of the book to and get feedback before
publishing.

Any advice is appreciated as long as it's constructive!

- Nick

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7" netbooks from MNT Research

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

Just found this too.  I have put the link below plus the text from the 
website article (in full, but minus the pictures).  Looks interesting 
and also looks to be open design too.


Problem with small form factor is less room for all those cool stickers :)

I acknowledge copyright, but in this context quoting for the benefit of 
anyone who may have a problem viewing this.


https://www.hackster.io/news/mnt-research-unveils-the-near-final-mnt-pocket-reform-a-7-aggressively-open-modular-netbook-3e2804a07d2d

**MNT Research Unveils the Near-Final MNT Pocket Reform, a 7" 
Aggressively-Open Modular Netbook
Compatible with SOMs built for the full-size MNT Reform, the Pocket 
Reform could prove the ultimate netbook revival**


MNT Research has unveiled the near-finalized design of its Pocket 
Reform, an aggressively open take on the classic netbook designed for 
compatibility with its earlier and larger Reform laptop — yet, 
impressively, sacrificing little in the quest for miniaturization.


The latest revision of the MNT Reform laptop landed with backers last 
year, offering a device, which was wholly open — from the operating 
system it runs to the design files for the PCBs and chassis. A blend of 
modernity and retrofuturism, the device includes an unusual mechanical 
keyboard, option of trackball or touch-pad pointing device, and modular 
innards in which the key components are held on a replaceable module.


Since the release of the MNT Reform, the company has been teasing a more 
pocketable variant dubbed — unsurprisingly — the Pocket Reform. Designed 
in a clamshell form factor like a traditional laptop, the Pocket Reform 
uses a far smaller yet Full HD 7" display panel with a compact 60-key 
ortholinear mechanical keyboard. There's no touchpad option this time 
around, with a trackball your only option — in order to reduce the 
amount of bezel required around the screen to ensure full coverage with 
the lid down.


Perhaps the most remarkable thing about the Pocket Reform is that its 
resemblance to its full-sized forebear is more than skin deep. Despite 
its dramatically reduced footprint, the carrier board inside the Pocket 
Reform is designed to be entirely compatible with systems-on-modules 
(SOMs) developed for the full-size Reform - including the original NXP 
i.MX8M Plus part with a choice of classic 4GB or new 8GB RAM capacities, 
a higher-performance NXP Layerscape part with up to 16GB of RAM, a 
Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 in custom-designed adapter board, a PINE64 
SOQuartz, or an FPGA module with Xilinx Kintex-7 on-board — allowing you 
to run soft-core processors including RISC-V.


There have been some sacrifices made in the design, however. A key 
selling point of the full-size Reform is its use of LiFePo4 batteries, 
safer and more environmentally-friendly than traditional lithium-ion or 
lithium-polymer batteries but with a correspondingly lower energy 
capacity. Without the room for eight 18650 cells to ensure a decent 
runtime, though, the Pocket Reform switches to two lithium-ion cells 
with a total 8,000mAh capacity.


MNT Reform has confirmed plans to launch two variants of the design: a 
robust aluminum version with bead-blasted finish anodized in purple or 
black; and a more environmentally-conscious version created in recycled 
PLA. Those who would customize the design, meanwhile, will be given STL 
files to print a case of their own.


More details are available on the MNT Research blog, but the company is 
still keeping two pieces of information close to its chest: pricing and 
availability.

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You Have 24 Months To Get On TikTok -LinkedIn article - can we apply points raised to fedi ?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi All

Granted this article is about getting on Tik Tok,  but perhaps the same 
thinking could be applied to the Fediverse.  Some of us here are already 
on there. As the article states this world changes, and changes fast. 
So perhaps our building up our presence on the fedi is not a bad thing.


https://www.linkedin.com/events/6945345656790114305/about/

The points covered are also surely just as applicable to fedi

* Why time is running out to get started on TikTok.
* Discovering what makes a great TikTok.
* What to do if you don’t feel comfortable on video.
* How to grow on social media when you don’t have a lot if time.
* Why LinkedIn still matters in a TikTok world.

Could be a few takeaways from this article.

Regards

Paul

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Re: Domain Registrar to Recommend

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

In the UK there is

Portfast: https://portfast.net/

Are you going to perhaps list a few solutions by region e,g North 
American, South America, Europe, Asia, Afruca, Eurasia / Europe, 
Australasia.?


Paul


On 20/05/2022 01:42, andrew via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

I am looking for a domain registrar to recommend on my free-software
focused fork of Luke Smith's https://landchad.net/ over at
https://host.andrewyu.org/.

https://host.andrewyu.org/guides/domain.html currently uses Epik as the
example because I haven't changed it from the original fork.  The last
time I tested, Epik uses some critical nonfree JavaScript, and therefore
I am looking for a nicer domain registrar to put up on there,
preferrably with no JavaScript at all (though JavaScript handling
payment information may be acceptable).

Similarly, the original fork uses Vultr as a VPS provider.  In my fork I
would be recommending self-hosting on real hardware first because that's
the (only?) way we get full control of our servers, but some people,
which sadly include me, have restrictive ISPs that do not allow hosting
that is hard to switch from (especially where I live, China).  Thus a
saner VPS provider is needed, and preferrably one that doesn't use a lot
of JavaScript like above.  Additionally, does anyone have suggestions on
disk encryption on VPSes?  Possibly some Linuxboot and remote-head LUKS
decryption during reboot, not sure.


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Re: Introducing My (Future) High School into Free Software

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 15/05/2022 17:57, andrew via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

I have been recently accepted into a good high school in Shanghai.
They're one of the best international schools in my opinion, and are
generally welcoming to new ideas.  I would like to take this oppurtunity
to spread the ideas of the free software movement (and free computing in
general.)


Great idea :)


Currently they have a sad situation of requiring students to have a
2018-or-later MacBook "with macOS, not Windows" for compatibility
concerns.  My family indeed has a 2018-or-later-macOS-MacBook which I
could bring there, and from most sources I've heard that there is no
problem whatsoever in bringing a "secondary" laptop with no such
requirements.

I want to emphasize the importance of free software and free computing
to them.  I am working on an article to submit to them, and I wold love
some ideas on this topic.


1. Think about what local industry is using,  I am sure it has been 
mentioned that the Chinese government are making their own GNU/Linux 
distribution.  But if there are local companies using free software, 
they will be looking for people with those skills if hiring.


2. Not sure what the situation is with Huawei, I know their networking 
(or some) kit is banned here in the UK and Donald Trump banned in the 
US.  One reason is that it is suspected of having spyware or something.


Surely if the hardware / firmware & software is all free software, then 
this suspicion can be mitigated by the fact the source is available to 
examine, study etc.  Software has bugs, so releasing as free software 
would help the community fix them.


A good reason to switch to devices running free software

What local jobs are available using Free software,  schools / training 
providers here in the UK teach Microsoft, because it is 'industry 
standard' which is at least one of their arguments,  problem is it 
doesn't promote choice for people.  But it is about demand.


3. Myself and Ron (Noisytoot) were working on this 
https://codeberg.org/DigitalSkills/DigitalSkills/src/branch/main/about.md


Which is an attempt to address what is covered in the UK digital skills 
curriculum but using free software.


Just a few ideas. The software and materials to help teach is out there, 
it is going to be a case of bringing all this together so non technical 
people can find and teach it.


Find out what people use software for and help people find / learn the 
free software replacement / alternatives.


I think most people are not programmers, so please remember we are not 
all really good with git, programming, compiling and installing 
operating systems,  it HAS to be easy to use,  maybe target one or two 
subject faculties with this, at least to begin with.


Hope this helps

Paul


--
Sincerely,
Andrew Yu
https://www.andrewyu.org/

My recent articles <https://rfd.andrewyu.org/>
Free Computing Movement <https://fcm.andrewyu.org/>
Host Things Yourself <https://host.andrewyu.org/>


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Re: very specific project proposal Re: What does Elon Musk say about free software?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

The course mentioned below looks really good, thanks,  never heard of 
COQ though,  so the issue we may face is this isn't a mainstream 
language such as Python,  so why teach / promote it.  The point that 
misses is that the course is designed to teach functional programming as 
a skill, that can be transferred.


What we need are people who we can teach,  or at least help to learn, 
there are people out there,  but really difficult to reach out to.


Peer learning is a really good thing,  and it may be the way we need to 
go, as I can't see local providers changing from teaching windows, 
msoffice, and mainstream social media.


Different courses also suit different people, so it is easy to be put 
off when struggling, but moving to a different course provider can make 
a difference,  much easier if you follow a free route via coursera and 
decide that udemy can teach the same material in a way that better fits 
your style of learning.


Not everyone wants formal education, but learning informally can lead to 
a very high level of understanding.


Paul

On 03/05/2022 11:15, Yasuaki Kudo wrote:
Yes,  and I think it is way bigger than just privacy.   My mother told I 
must feel much freer when I learned driving.  The same thing goes to the 
computers and the Internet - while the computers can be programmed by 
anyone and people can upload anything to their heart's content on the 
Internet, the prevailing direction is so much the opposite.


The reversing of this trend will be thrilling, educational and world 
changing!   Yes, education will be the key - and it's not that I am 
suggesting people go back to university or anything formal (although 
nothing wrong with that)- we can educate each other!


Combining free software development and mutual education is something 
that we should do.


To give a specific example, I follow this interactive tutorial with my 
friend's daughter https://jscoq.github.io/ext/sf/lf/full/Basics.html 
<https://jscoq.github.io/ext/sf/lf/full/Basics.html>  and this has been 
mutually beneficial.  Courses like these lend themselves very well to 
studying in pairs or groups.


If free software development can take advantage of something like this - 
implementing well specified software (even better if accompanied by 
proofs?) - maybe we can have a model of development that scales to 
thousands of programmers


-Yasu

On May 3, 2022, at 17:02, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss 
 wrote:




On 02/05/2022 22:42, Yasuaki Kudo wrote:

   Just like the 'Occupy Wall St.', can we have continuous digital
   assemblies where ideas can be discussed all the time (people have
   different schedules and live in various timezones anyway) for the
   digital transformation we are seeking?
   We can use something like:
   [1]https://communitybridge.com/bbb-room/coffee/
   Hot Topics that come to my mind 


Isn't the idea of Occupy wall street to be visible to the general 
population?  We can use bbb to plan things and discuss but the more we 
do this as public facing the more effect it may have and also 
encourage others to get involved.


People join a conversation if it is emotive,  so we can strike a chord 
with people on privacy or what the software is doing in the background 
and hopefully make people stop, think and start to make developers 
accountable.


But also change our education system so that it is normal to put 
privacy before profits when developing apps / software.



Paul
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Re: very specific project proposal Re: What does Elon Musk say about free software?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 02/05/2022 22:42, Yasuaki Kudo wrote:

Just like the 'Occupy Wall St.', can we have continuous digital
assemblies where ideas can be discussed all the time (people have
different schedules and live in various timezones anyway) for the
digital transformation we are seeking?

We can use something like:

[1]https://communitybridge.com/bbb-room/coffee/

Hot Topics that come to my mind 


Isn't the idea of Occupy wall street to be visible to the general 
population?  We can use bbb to plan things and discuss but the more we 
do this as public facing the more effect it may have and also encourage 
others to get involved.


People join a conversation if it is emotive,  so we can strike a chord 
with people on privacy or what the software is doing in the background 
and hopefully make people stop, think and start to make developers 
accountable.


But also change our education system so that it is normal to put privacy 
before profits when developing apps / software.



Paul


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Re: very specific project proposal Re: What does Elon Musk say about free software?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 01/05/2022 23:23, Thomas Lord wrote:


You sparked what I think is a really good idea in my head.
Of course, I can't judge if it really is a really good idea. :-)

I think/guess many people discover that twitter is a fun
and informative way to track some subject of interest.
Four examples:

   - follow all your favorite Hollywood celebrities

   - follow all your favorite news outlets / journalists

   - subscribe to a list that is cultivated to carry the
     tweets of credible climate scientists and related
     climate advocates and experts

   - subscribe to a list of people actively making and
     posting about making music

Conversely, celebrities, climate scientists and activists,
etc. are all seeking to reach large, interested audiences.

AHA!  That can be assembled out of Mastodon with few or no
changes -- mostly just by using it wisely.  As someone said,
the UI might benefit from some loving enhancement and documentation.




So could we perhaps share our mastodon / fedi id's on this list so we 
can all perhaps start following each other, as much as possible.


@zl...@qoto.org

To start the ball rolling on this one.

I am trying to put together a series of posts on my blog about 
cybersecurity, but starting off with, introducing the BASH shell using a 
series of 8 videos from youtube that I feel are good for beginners.


I can use these at code club too,  and hopefully help raise awareness of 
free software at the same time.


https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton

With a link to the first video on May 4th

https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/cybersecurity-part-3

So trying to find resources and share them,  in a structured way.

Clearly this can lead to cybersecurity, but this series can also lead to 
a whole range of other areas,   such as developing free software, and 
developing secure applications / services which is still important.


Something that I may look in to doing, as I want to encourage people to 
learn BASH scripting, python, networking etc, first then look at 
cybersecurity if they still wish to, they may decide to branch out and 
contribute to free software development.


The way I am doing this, won't be to everyone's taste, BUT I am happy to 
link to alternatives and further resources,  so hopefully we can find a 
way to do complementary each other.


Paul


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Re: The growing insistence of Mobile Services Manager (DT Ignite) on Android devices

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 01/05/2022 22:08, Kaio Duarte Costa wrote:

Since a few weeks ago, I've been dealing with the annoyance of the
Mobile Services Manager (the famous DT Ignite, with a "nicer" name),
which practically forces android device users to install proprietary
applications, with abusive advertisements, when it does not install them
without the user's permission (since it has abusive permissions to
install and uninstall applications, as a system application).

What was once a periodic annoyance has now become almost daily, as
Digital Turbine (in partnership with Samsung) is increasing the
insistence on 'marketing' the device's notifications tab with an
annoying advertisement called "find the next ideal app for you".
Furthermore, it is impossible to remove the advertisement from the
notification tab, only by deactivating the app (which evidently does not
seem to be effective).

Those who dare to click, even if accidentally, will encounter a white
full screen, which forces the user to click next, forcibly encouraging
them to install the apps from the screen, or deselect a giant list of
apps not to be installed. Furthermore, these are installed as "silent
notifications", so the user is only aware of their existence when he
sees them on the device.

I believe, that thousands of users are annoyed by this forced
advertising, which violates the users' freedom and reinforces the need
for our fight. Therefore, I would like to assess with you what we can do
about it, from complaints to campaigns, I believe that any manifestation
of society about this abuse to the user, is of great value!



Whole campaigns are good, perhaps we need to also:

* Find out what people use / need their phones for
* Assess if alternative, Android based operating systems for mobiles can 
help

* Assess if alternative phones are an option for people
* Help people make the transition

There are some good resources to promote f-droid for example.
I made a post on alternative mobile systems back in January,  and got 
some of the info from the fsf website. I have sorted out the different 
replacements in to Android derived and other


https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/mobile-devices

We need to raise awareness, but at the same time help people who are 
shackled in to the current eco system,  I think RMS said he had issues 
trying to book covid test or vaccination due to the need of non free apps.


Perhaps rather than telling people what the issue is,  we can promote 
the alternatives and why we feel they are better for privacy, user 
freedoms etc.  Make sure the alternatives work for people too.



I still have no idea, given the number of replacement systems, if there 
is a full set of applications ported, most people don't want the nonsense of


App X is on replacement system x
App y is on replacement system y
app z is on replacement system z

So a user needing to run all 3 of these applications can't as no one 
replacement (which we claim is better) will run what they want, 
replacemetn OS may be better for freedom but if that gets in the way of 
their work,  we won't get people to move.


E,g a lot of transit systems have apps for tickets, so unless that app 
is available they won't move system.




Just a thought

Paul

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Re: thank you elon musk

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 26/04/2022 20:38, Adrienne G. Thompson wrote:

Hi Thomas:

  If the FSF is not now going very hard on promoting Mastadon,
  they should never be trusted to anything right again.

Why take such a negative approach? Why not, instead, propose a campaign
to promote Mastodon? We are here to support the Free Software Movement
- a movement that relies on contributions beyond code.
Adrienne G. Thompson
Principal and Chief Code Artist, GNU C-Graph



I agree here,  Mastodon does need content, it has that to a point as I 
subscribe to feeds from Sciencedaily for example,  but few people 
interact.  As far as I am aware people not exactly have long 
conversations on twitter either.


There are several forums set up to facilitate discussions on how the 
fediverse can move forward, I am part of both.


https://fediverse.town/
https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/

As a platform,  or set of  platforms they can't move forward unless 
people say what they want, and help promote.


we need to perhaps coordinate efforts so a post from the fsf is boosted 
by the community,   for example.  but not over a period of wees but days 
or hours in some cases.


I tend to avoid mastodon,  as there are more people on there who seem to 
be anti vaccination, anti science and racist, so it doesn't help me,


Free software is just as much about the community of developers,  users, 
 creators etc as it is about the fsf,  who,among other things are 
trying to also enforce our licenses when they are infringed,  something 
individual users can't do easily.


Paul


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Re: Announcing Zoë Kooyman as our new executive director

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 01/03/2022 20:32, Greg Farough wrote:

Hi, all,

We have some news to share, which is that Zoë Kooyman has been
appointed our new executive director. I hope that you'll all join me
in welcoming her, and in thanking John S. for so many years with us.
:)

<https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/my-appointment-as-the-fsfs-new-executive-director>

-g



Excellent news,  Congrats zoe :)

Paul



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Pronoun : him/his/he
Fedi: @zl...@qoto.org


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Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

I get the same impression,  the 4 freedoms are universal,  we just 
provide the software, it is up to the end user how they use it.


Paul


My comment is simply that by *MY* understanding of the GPL (and similar 
licenses) is that there is nothing in the terms that would ALLOW any efforts to 
limit the Russian access to Free Software.  Copyleft is a two edged sword in 
this regard, it makes it easier for people we like to get software, but also 
means we can't take it away from those that we don't like...

Even the few North Koreans that are allowed computers can use highly modified 
versions of GNU/Linux that have been set up to limit the ability to access the 
outside world...  (I'm told the source is available but not many want it...)

ART
--
Arthur Torrey - 
---


On 02/24/2022 12:57 PM gregor  wrote:

  
hi all. here is what i feel.


war is something, where banks win and people loose. i hoped FSF was not
a politically oriented organization.

makes me sad, seeing how FSF rushes to be "politically correct" in the
world run by propaganda machines.

agitprop is what i see, which is to say it obviouslly works.

to make it clear, i am not the side of some country nor some army nor
some soldiers (poor souls, not to mention civilians), but on the side of
peace. once someone during a war takes side, he/she becomes a soldier.

sad is what i am.

yt

g

ps

live by the sword die by the sword is what bible says

On 24. 02. 22 18:43, Arthur Torrey wrote:

Much as we might want to shut off the Russians, I don't think this is something 
that the GPL type licenses allow...  This has come up time and time again in 
regards to limiting access to all sorts of other undesirables, and the bottom 
line is that as long as they are complying w/ the licenses (i.e. copylefting 
changes, etc.) they can't be cut off...

An ironic / amusing question I remember being raised a while back: Is the 
question about if Free Software is used in a 'smart' weapon, (smart bomb 
guidance system, drone, etc.); and an intact device falls into the hands of the 
enemy, does that count as 'distribution' and entitle the enemy to demand the 
corresponding source code?

ART


Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:04:30 +
From: Jacob Hrbek 
To: Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss

Subject: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free
Software?
Message-ID: <25b59d57-597d-4ef4-9e93-2c067a1d8...@rixotstudio.cz>
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Today russian forces invaded ukraine and started an unprovoked war with
free software being used across russia and in the government thus
playing a major role in russia's war capabilities.

Should we and can we take steps to prevent/reduce russia's access to our
software?



--
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Re: Should we take steps to reduce russian access to Free Software?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

Good question.

Watching the BBC news,  I get the impression, that while the regime is 
behind the invasion,  the army follow orders.  Many ordinary Russians DO 
NOT want this war.  In addition there are probably many activists in 
Russia, who are against Putin and who may rely on free software to 
conduct business, communication etc (e.g at a guess gnupg)


Free software is about using software for what you want to use it for. 
Of course, we would hope people use it in a way that respects human 
rights and freedoms.


Just a thought.

Paul


On 24/02/2022 08:04, Jacob Hrbek wrote:

Today russian forces invaded ukraine and started an unprovoked war with
free software being used across russia and in the government thus
playing a major role in russia's war capabilities.

Should we and can we take steps to prevent/reduce russia's access to our
software?

--
Jacob Hrbek, In support of ukraine sovereignty #supportUkraine


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Re: Not "open source" hardware, "free design" hardware

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 03/02/2022 04:19, Richard Stallman wrote:

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

   > >   >  > Are you using "designs" with a different meaning? -- RMS

   > >   >  From my experience the word "hardware designs" usually refers to
   > >   > schematics only,

   > > Does it include schematics of chips
   > > as well as schematics of boards?

   > Just a data point.

   > From my 20+ years professional experience of an electronics engineer,
   > hardware design usually includes schematics, layout, assembly drawings
   > and instructions (if any)---virtually all documentation used to
   > produce the device.

That would be all aspects of the design in question.  It's the right way
to do things.

You've responded to the question Jacob responded to.
You and he disagree about this.

The other question I raised -- whether "the design of this piece of hardware"
normally includes the designs of the chips in it as well as the design of
its circuit board -- is important also.

   > The layouts for a device is typically harder to make than its
   > schematics; the gerber files (technically, gerber + drill files)
   > are made automatically from the layout in its source code form.

This suggests that a complete design for a board should include the
layout.  But there is no crucial need to include the gerber + drill
files, since you can generate them from the layout.

(Is there free software to generate them?)


It may be a case sometimes that a chip is available from a manufacturer 
for end hardware designers to create their product but the schematic may 
be available under a non disclosure agreement.


In some cases there could be a good reason for this,  as there could be 
patents on a specific part of the chip,


I have hard of military specification components,  so with resistors 
these could be 1k resistor with a 1% tolerance.   For chips there may be 
military features, so the spec may be protected as it has features that 
give the military the advantage over others.  So the spec is available 
so that chip can be used in a device (lets say some sort of navigation 
device for rockets)  so clearly if that information fell in to the wrong 
hands it could be bad (especially during wartime).  An enemy may find a 
way to create a countermeasures device for example.


So in that case you would have chip designer -- > chip under nda --> 
device maker --> Military


A similar chip could be made, minus that special features which is made 
available for consumer devices,  in which case the information may be 
less restrictive, and the full spec may be available to every one


It may be that chip is made available _ spec to a third party so they 
can make consumer devices.


I would kind of assume that we would be looking here at consumer level 
hardware.


In terms of non disclosure agreements, surely the FSF has policies on 
what happens in board meetings, what is discussed and what can be 
disclosed out side of that meeting.



Paul



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Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 29/01/2022 15:09, Jacob Hrbek wrote:
 > It is nice that that exists -- but I am not going to make my own LED 
bulbs. I don't have the know-how or the time. -- RMS
 > So I buy commercially made LED bulbs in a store.  Their designs are 
not free, but I don't see that as an issue _for this kind of hardware_. 
(See https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-hardware-designs.html for why not.) 
-- RMS


Why are you dismissing the hardware freedom to everyone else just 
because you "don't have the time"? For me projects like relativty 
 that gives me a set of 
instructions on how to build the VR headset with hardware, software and 
chasis files that expects that i make everything myself or source the 
parts myself and to which i can contribute to is perfect and what i want 
FSF to support.


Note that i do not dismiss your preferred way of getting the LED bulbs, 
i think it's perfectly acceptable as long as free hardware alternative 
does not exists, but my argument is that this exact behavior by FSF is 
what is causing the continuous harm as for people like me who love to 
design free hardware FSF just constantly puts roadblocks in my way that 
prevent me from fully focusing on the development..


 > They need to screw into the fan/lamp fixture on the ceiling. -- RMS

FreeCAD will help you design the socket, should take max 2 min, but the 
provided chasis on thingiverse already has the mounting solution 
included and there are so many designs that i think that you will find 
the one that fits your usecase.


 > In addition, they may need a special circuit for dimming. -- RMS
 > That fixture has a switch which was built old-fashioned bulbs, which 
you could dim just by reducing the voltage.  These dimmable bulbs have 
to respond to that signal somehow. -- RMS



If I understand one method,  a potentiometer is looked up to +v  gnd and 
  one of the Analogue in pins, this then gives a scale from I think 
0-1024 wwhich can then be mapped to the led brightness.


Pulse with modulation from the mood lamp project allows for different 
brightnesses of a tri color LED,  So i am guessing there is a way to 
just control a single pin brightness that way.


https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub/wieselly/arduino-tutorial-using-potentiometer-control-led-light-0dbbd1


May do it

Paul



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Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 27/01/2022 08:33, Adrien Bourmault via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

Le 27 janvier 2022 05:13:09 GMT+01:00, Richard Stallman  a écrit :

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > https://www.wired.com/story/22-year-old-builds-chips-parents-garage/

He has made a chip with 1400 transistors.  I think that
making a processor capable of running GNU/Linux like the 15-year-old
processor in my T400s will take at least another decade, and probably
two or three.

I'm sure people will get there someday.  But RYF's policies should
be designed for the next few years, not for long-term policies.
We can't push long-term policies, we can only encourage them.


--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)



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Hello to all. I add my little stone to this discussion to say first that I 
agree with Richard that today we cannot yet say no to non-free hardware as we 
do with software, and that we cannot push such pre-requisites into RYF.

What I have to add is mostly on the subject of processors, since we are talking 
about someone who has designed his own CPU.
Some of you know that I'm a student in France in a master's degree in processor 
architecture. My laboratory, the LIP6, has been trying for a few years to focus 
on VLSI (Very Large Scale Integration) design methods to design free hardware.

Thus, our university has created a complete VLSI chain as free software. It is 
called Coriolis and allows the design of an ASIC from its VHDL description to 
the drawing of the masks (see https://coriolis.lip6.fr)

Moreover, to design elements more quickly, component libraries are needed (to 
avoid reinventing the wheel). Especially for analog circuits. Our laboratory 
has therefore created the OCEANE library (sorry link in French, nobody has 
translated it yet https://www-soc.lip6.fr/equipe-cian/logiciels/oceane/).

Finally, so that the masks produced by these methods can be transformed into 
real hardware, we had to find a foundry that would give us its PDK (all the 
information to correctly size the masks and adapt them to specific 
technologies). Unfortunately most foundries keep these parameters a secret. But 
recently, SkyWater foundry released their PDK. It is a technology with a fine 
130nm etch. It's not state of the art, but it's enough to do something useful. 
You can find it here:
https://skywater-pdk.readthedocs.io/en/main/

Thanks to this, at LIP6 (which belongs to Sorbonne University) we are now able 
to implement processors respecting the ARM v2 specification freely. A work on 
RISC V is in progress this year.


I'll check the links later, but this sounds like fantastic work,  well 
done to you, the university and everyone else involved.


Paul



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Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 27/01/2022 04:13, Richard Stallman wrote:

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

   > https://www.wired.com/story/22-year-old-builds-chips-parents-garage/

He has made a chip with 1400 transistors.  I think that
making a processor capable of running GNU/Linux like the 15-year-old
processor in my T400s will take at least another decade, and probably
two or three.

I'm sure people will get there someday.  But RYF's policies should
be designed for the next few years, not for long-term policies.
We can't push long-term policies, we can only encourage them.




How do you feel about devices from suppliers such as Pine64,  these 
allow for free software to be installed, but also for parts to be 
removed and replaced.


https://pine64.com/

It would be good to be able to fabricate our own chips,  Perhaps in the 
mean time we can come up with a subset of devices that exist now, so we 
can get behind them.


It is almost like we want to go back to the 70s where computers 
sometimes came in kit form that you soldered together,  just with a 
modern twist,   we would need a major education shift to being 
reprogrammed with the maker (or more hacker) mindset,  we are rebuilding 
that, just slowly.


Paul

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Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 26/01/2022 03:39, Richard Stallman wrote:

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

   > Then let me be clear. By "free hardware" I mean that the following is
   > available under a free license:

   > * Gerber files for circuit boards
   > * Boardview / gerber / design files
   > * Verilog files for making your own versions of each chip
   > * Built-in firmwares on chips must also be free. E.g. bootroms

A gerber file alone is not adequate as source code for a circuit; it
is more like compiled code.  But assuming that the "design files" are
the source code, then I think this is a coherent definition of "free
hardware".  I agree that all hardware ought to be free in this sense,
some day.  https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-hardware-designs.html talks
about this, and why it's too much to insist on for the short term.

But many people say "free hardware" and they mean something very
different, a much less stringent criterion.  They mean "comes with the
specs needed to write free software for it".  I don't think that is
enough to merit the term "free hardware".  What can we call it?

   > (this last one is something that the FSF currently provides exceptions
   > for in RYF)

I just modified https://gnu.org/philosophy/free-hardware-designs.html to better
explain why we make this exception, why for the time being we must.
Also how to keep it honest.



Hi Richard

This is great, thank you.   Another advantage with free designs and 
making the tools available is that anyone can then learn the system with 
little or no barriers to doing so.  It helps bridge the digital divide 
which is something that needs to be addrssed,  doing so with freer 
hardware means people start on the right foot by understanding free 
software and freehardware in the freedom sense going forward.


Would Arduino be an example, Anyone can copy the arduino chip / board 
design, or in fact make their own board and just use th chip.   The IDE 
is also fre download and under gpl.  I think the design is open source,


Hence the official Arduino boards cost $20+ but I can pick up clones 
much cheaper from companies such as banggood in China.


https://www.arduino.cc/


Paul
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Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 24/01/2022 19:47, Matt Ivie wrote:

On Mon, 2022-01-24 at 08:23 +, Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss
wrote:

Hi,

I really can't hold my tongue any longer.

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 23:33:57 -0500
Richard Stallman  wrote:

RYF deserves its name.  It checks for the freedom that users of the
computer can take advantage of, today and in the near future.
Having those circuit diagrams will not affect the freedom of
customers
who buy the hardware.



In fact, access to schematics, boardviews, datasheets and any other
documentation is *critical* to software freedom.

Much of the work that goes into porting a single mainboard to
coreboot
requires knowledge of the hardware, and you actually need to read the
schematics to get the code working on specific board configurations.

Let's not also forget the Right to Repair movement, currently lead by
Louis Rossman, which is *fighting* for the right to such
documentation,
because without it, nobody could understand their hardware.


Maybe the RYF certification should have that include an ultimate level
having the schematics and documentation available under a free
license?Lower levels would allow systems that are missing these other
pieces to still carry a certification if they are fully functioning
using Free Software.



Good idea, on another question,  how do we avoid information conflicting 
between the fsf ryf information and the oshwa information,  so that the 
information is consistent and does not cause confusion.


Perhaps if Leah's idea is to work, the oshwa could take over the RYF 
list and be a one stop shop for all open hardware information, while the 
fsf just focuses on software,  but the collaboration is close enough to 
be truly complementary.


Paul

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Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

-- Snip--


All of this leads me to a conclusion:

We should no longer call it the Free Software movement. No, we need a
new term instead that combines both hardware and software. We need
robust ideological leadership that is currently lacking from the FSF,
when taking hardware into account.

Richard, I think you should listen to the people telling you these
things, because they are giving you good advice. They are not your
enemy. People like me are just looking at the movement nowadays and
dismayed because the FSF is largely ignoring the current realities.

You outright reject the term "free hardware" but the free hardware
movement already exists. Some refer to it as OSHW (open source
hardware) but I myself call it the free hardware movement.

There is good reason for people to be disillusioned with your FSF, and
those reasons are expressed quite well by the original post in this
thread. My only advice to you is this:

Stop seeing criticism as a threat. Listen to people, they want to
help! I think even the original poster on this thread probably has that
same desire, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist (the OP would just
disregard the FSF and move on, instead of trying to effect positive
change).

That's my two cents. Take it or leave it.



I agree with Leah on this one,  I am not a hardware or software 
engineer,  however I would like to be able to buy hardware that I know 
respects free software,  be able to install say Debian rather than 
Debian (non-free) so there are no hardware issues. I can download say 
Trisquel and it just works.


I understand what Leah is suggesting enough to see the value of having 
specs, circuit diagrams etc.  I have an old Oscilloscope here,  the 
manual has full circuit diagram,  my Old zx spectrum needed an external 
tape player and I am sure even that manual had a full circuit diagram.


We need to step back and think of non IT technical users, who may be say 
brain surgeons, or chemists, they just want the software / hardware to 
work with their hardware and not have to spend time struggling to get 
things working as they need proprietary components.  If they have all 
the datasheets available then at least the people with the right 
training can help repair these devices.


I would much rather save money on usb wifi adapters and put that money 
to one side to buy a replacement laptop (at some point) that I know will 
just work. Also,  users may want to upgrade the memory, and other 
hardware so this needs to be easy to do, or for others to do.


Of course right to repair is gaining traction, but how much of that is 
also due to people being conscious of the environmental impact of thrown 
away hardware, that can be in a lot of cases easily fixed by swapping 
out a single component.


People want to know is this phone, desktop laptop freedom (hardware and 
software) respecting or not before buying.


I get the impression RISC V can / has potential to really change the 
current landscape around this too.


Paul


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Re: RE : Ideas to promote making and using free hardware designs (was Re: FSF continuously harms Free Hardware)

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 21/01/2022 01:05, Arthur Torrey wrote:

An excellent post by Paul Fernhout, but I see one really HUGE problem, namely 
that I don't know of ANY Free Software tool or tool-chain that can get a person 
from 'beer-mat' to 'g-code'  (For those not familiar with the CNC world, g-code 
is the 'assembly language' of the CNC manufacturing world...

I am a member of the Artisan's Asylum maker-space (formerly in Somerville, MA, 
temporarily shut down while moving to Allston) and would dearly love to be able 
to make the hardware that I can draw and design in LibreCAD (2D) or possibly 
FreeCAD, gCAD3D or some other Free Software 3D CAD package, but I have not been 
able to find any way to get from those packages to g-code that I can feed to 
our CNC machines.

Instead I have to use Proprietary CAD packages (some of which have limited 
'Free as in Beer' offerings) to make proprietary format files in order to 
generate (proprietary) tool-paths to feed to a (proprietary) pre-processor that 
turns them into machine appropriate g-code  (Ironically, at least one of 
the machines I'm running that g-code on is using LinuxCNC as a controller).  I 
haven't even found a path that would let me move a design from a Free CAD 
package into one of the proprietary packages to do the tool-path steps.

For electronics stuff, KiCAD is amazingly good, I've heard professional board 
designers say that it can go head to head against the $10K / seat commercial 
programs.  I haven't done anything in the 3D printing world, but I've heard 
there are some packages that are at least competent for that.  However there is 
NOTHING I've been able to find that is capable of even basic CNC machining 
g-code, let alone anything close to modern High Speed Machining (as done by 
things like HSM-Works)

As such, Paul's proposals for OSCOMAK and other shared collections of design 
data seem like they would be of little use if there is no way to get the 
collected data into a new design that can be manufactured

I've been urging the FSF to put CAD onto the 'high priority' list for years, 
but so far no luck...

ART

--
Arthur Torrey - 
---



As I understand it,  when the source code to doom was released, the 
original levels stayed as non-free with a paid option to get them.


Perhaps there could be a way to work with the hardware makers and free 
cad developers to create a similar set up where for a reasonable cost 
you can obtain the required drivers, firmware etc.


FreeCAD would remain free as in freedom, if you wanted to use it with 
specific hardware you could do so.


Just a thought,   Ideally they would make their software available for 
free software available for BSD, Linux etc.   If MacOS is based on BSD 
this can't be that difficult to port over surely.


So this is a sort of meet in the middle approach that may work,  as long 
as we, as a community respect the copyright,  and pay for these 
components that should keep the copyright holders happy.


The topic of funding projects came up at the meeting on Thursday 20th. 
So this idea is partly influenced by that and what happened with games 
such as Doom.


Regards

Paul



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Re: A mathematical, non-corruptable, algorithmic, democratic and free system of government and society

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

c.


The modern world is more mobile, we are not sitting at the same desk 
every day using the same computer,   we may use laptop, tablets, phones 
etc to do our work,  we can leave our desk,  grab a coffee in the work 
canteen and keep working,  we can attend meetings in person / remotely 
and everything is just designed to work.


Offerings for devices such as the various open source phones appears to 
be, for me, confusing,


https://joinmastodon.org/apps

So from that, can I buy a pinephone and run a mastodon client on it, ? 
Add to this, there is fairphone and a host of other free software 
operating systems, some are based on Android others not.  Only 1 app for 
something called sailfishOS.


I think your classmates make a good point,  they need certain 
applications, and therefore are tied in to the non free software / 
devices they have.


We need to break that cycle,  perhaps one way is to take people who are 
already using free software and use their examples of how it is used in 
the real world how a business or school can run on free software.


Paul

BTW are you in China or the US?



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Libreboot.Org Urges Support for Proposed 'Free Software' Law in New Hampshire - Slashdot

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi, All

Sorry for the cross post here.

Not sure if anyone has seen this but it seems significant, esp as the 
fsf is based in MA, which I am guessing is a neighbouring state to NH.


https://news.slashdot.org/story/22/01/08/1511241/librebootorg-urges-support-for-proposed-free-software-law-in-new-hampshire

Paul
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Re: LibreJam - FSF* should host a Libre Game development tournament!

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 07/01/2022 04:21, Richard Stallman wrote:

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

It sounds like game jams have value for education in programming, but
do they have value for the free software movement, enough for free
software activists to dedicate time to them for the sake of that?

Can the people who want to do a game jam for free software think up a way
to make it educate about free software as well as about programming?

I don't have answers for those questions, but I think they are the
crucial questions to pose.



I would guess just using free software to make the games is a start, 
we can then have discussions about software licensing generally but 
include the four freedoms within that discussion.


Also have discussions as to what happens if we need a component that is 
non free,  how doing that ends up tying us in to a situation where if 
that component changes,  our game may no longer compile or work 
properly.  So this gives a practical example of the problems people 
face.  How do we work round that,  make games that interact with say the 
free software drivers/firmware, so we may sacrifice some game features 
but we can enhance other features.


How can we write games to make money if they are written under a free 
software license could be a question we get.?


Another example could be that software is available on wider hardware 
due to the source code being available, and the fact we have the freedom 
to port (which probably requires modification before recompiling) 
Raspberry Pi is available to lots of people, so while some parts may be 
non free,  lets get people in that way too, work around the issues and 
campaign - support truly free hardware - which brings me on to:-


Also with the rise of RiscV and other open processors ( I am not very 
good with the vocabulary here, sorry) isn't there a chance we may 
actually get some truly RYF hardware?  We are going to need developers 
for that at some point,  Core/Libreboot will probably form oart of any 
systems using those CPUs so again those projects need developers.


What about games for pinephones, pine tablets and the pinebooks, it 
seems there are several operating systems and programs are not ported to 
all of them, example the Mastodon apps.


If we want to build a game for free software systems, how can we target 
as many systems as possible easily?


So writing games,  will teach people skills they can use elsewhere too.

Lets do more brainstorming on this.

Paul

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Re: Libre games jam - a proposal

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi Roberto

Cool thanks for this,  I think we have a lot of material available to us 
now,  what we need is to decide how to structure something so that 
people can learn.


We need learners I gues

Paul


On 06/01/2022 19:00, Roberto Sánchez wrote:

Hello.

Just a few short things...

Godot can make both 2D and 3D games, it also uses (among others) a scripting
language similar to python called Gdscript.

Also, for this purpose, maybe the people at gdquest (  who provide Godot
training materials whichI think are under free licences) could be potentially
useful partners.
Hope this is somewhat useful.

Roberto

On 6 Jan 2022 18:20, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
 wrote:

 Hi all

 Following on from the thread

 LibreJam - FSF* should host a Libre Game development tournament!

 I think the general consensus is, that this is a good idea.   The
 question is, how do we pull this off.

 Firstly I appreciate the tech team are busy :)

 I would suggest putting together some infrastructure first, so that
 maybe there is a specific mailing list for this project.

 We need to work out what the aims are,  so lets say we want to take
 someone (any age) who is using scratch, they want to either

 1. Write their own games
 2. Help maintain / contribute to existing free software games

 We need to try and help them along that path.

 Assuming people are pretty good with Scratch,  then we can take that as
 a starting point.

 1. I think a general rule is that you should let the project dictate
 what you use. So by that python, love2d, etc are good for 2d games,
 where as GoDot, castle engines are designed for 3d games.

 I don't think 3d games in python would work.

 Making games

 2.  Help people learn the basics, so find some tutorials to teach
 writing games in python for example

 http://inventwithpython.com/#scratch

 is perhaps a good starting point.


 Contributing to games

 Start simple,  Rocks n diamonds I think is free software, just that some
 level sets are not.   This is fine just install the free level sets.

 Start by making levels and contributing them back to the project. This
 is not about self promotion but I have made lots of videos on this topic.

 https://personaljournal.ca/rocksanddiamonds/

 So hopefully they are helpful,  ideally you need someone who you can
 meet face to face to test them,  make sure they are playable,  identify
 any major problems (just as you would with writing / testing software).

 This also teaches collaboration,  if rename levels in such a way when
 uploaded to git repository they all sit nicely together.  This can be
 done if you create levels 1-10 in the game and someone else creates
 levels 11-20,   when merged you end up with 20 levels.

 What you also learn here is collaboration, communication team work etc

 Contributing to games 2

 Perhaps a step up from the above is to make mods for Minetest, again
 lots of info on this, so it is a case of finding a team to you.

 I have tried to collate information in to a blog post

 https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/minetest-foss-minecraft-clone

 I appreciate that I have used the term FOSS which is depreciated, it is
 a blog post, can be reposted with a better title / content.

 Writing 2d games is then perhaps the next step
 then creating levels for 3d games (say assault cube) can we write mods
 for the game, if so how.

 Finally then move on to 3d games (if people want to),  perhaps a step
 before that is to cover programs such as blender to learn about 3d
 graphics, lighting, etc and using x,y,z axis

 We have all the free software tools we need for this

 git/gitlab
 etherpads
 bigbluebutton / jitsi
 IRC, mailing lists
 We could use a shared nextcloud for the rocksndiamonds levels, and other
 resources.   If people are not very confident with git. (Lets not put
 barriers in place) bend any barriers, so that eventually people can be
 confident with tools like git.

 Perhaps make lots of use of Decentralised platforms too (helps to
 promote) for example mastodon, peertube etc.

 If people see positive activity on these platforms it encourages their use.

 I think suggesting people create a specific e-mail for lists using for
 example disroot (which then gives you other tools like nextcloud,  pads
 etc) or protonmail also helps keep your game creation activities
 seperate, it also means your normal inbox doesn't get swamped with
 messages.

 People such as the https://techlearningcollective.com/ who did a talk at
 Libreplanet,  could also be promoted to provide some of the training.

 Perhaps set up the infrastructure, then launch the idea at LibrePlanet,
so we can get people on board, to help at least, then figure out what

Libre games jam - a proposal

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi all

Following on from the thread

LibreJam - FSF* should host a Libre Game development tournament!

I think the general consensus is, that this is a good idea.   The 
question is, how do we pull this off.


Firstly I appreciate the tech team are busy :)

I would suggest putting together some infrastructure first, so that 
maybe there is a specific mailing list for this project.


We need to work out what the aims are,  so lets say we want to take 
someone (any age) who is using scratch, they want to either


1. Write their own games
2. Help maintain / contribute to existing free software games

We need to try and help them along that path.

Assuming people are pretty good with Scratch,  then we can take that as 
a starting point.


1. I think a general rule is that you should let the project dictate 
what you use. So by that python, love2d, etc are good for 2d games, 
where as GoDot, castle engines are designed for 3d games.


I don't think 3d games in python would work.

Making games

2.  Help people learn the basics, so find some tutorials to teach 
writing games in python for example


http://inventwithpython.com/#scratch

is perhaps a good starting point.


Contributing to games

Start simple,  Rocks n diamonds I think is free software, just that some 
level sets are not.   This is fine just install the free level sets.


Start by making levels and contributing them back to the project. This 
is not about self promotion but I have made lots of videos on this topic.


https://personaljournal.ca/rocksanddiamonds/

So hopefully they are helpful,  ideally you need someone who you can 
meet face to face to test them,  make sure they are playable,  identify 
any major problems (just as you would with writing / testing software).


This also teaches collaboration,  if rename levels in such a way when 
uploaded to git repository they all sit nicely together.  This can be 
done if you create levels 1-10 in the game and someone else creates 
levels 11-20,   when merged you end up with 20 levels.


What you also learn here is collaboration, communication team work etc

Contributing to games 2

Perhaps a step up from the above is to make mods for Minetest, again 
lots of info on this, so it is a case of finding a team to you.


I have tried to collate information in to a blog post

https://personaljournal.ca/paulsutton/minetest-foss-minecraft-clone

I appreciate that I have used the term FOSS which is depreciated, it is 
a blog post, can be reposted with a better title / content.


Writing 2d games is then perhaps the next step
then creating levels for 3d games (say assault cube) can we write mods 
for the game, if so how.


Finally then move on to 3d games (if people want to),  perhaps a step 
before that is to cover programs such as blender to learn about 3d 
graphics, lighting, etc and using x,y,z axis


We have all the free software tools we need for this

git/gitlab
etherpads
bigbluebutton / jitsi
IRC, mailing lists
We could use a shared nextcloud for the rocksndiamonds levels, and other 
resources.   If people are not very confident with git. (Lets not put 
barriers in place) bend any barriers, so that eventually people can be 
confident with tools like git.


Perhaps make lots of use of Decentralised platforms too (helps to 
promote) for example mastodon, peertube etc.


If people see positive activity on these platforms it encourages their use.

I think suggesting people create a specific e-mail for lists using for 
example disroot (which then gives you other tools like nextcloud,  pads 
etc) or protonmail also helps keep your game creation activities 
seperate, it also means your normal inbox doesn't get swamped with 
messages.


People such as the https://techlearningcollective.com/ who did a talk at 
Libreplanet,  could also be promoted to provide some of the training.


Perhaps set up the infrastructure, then launch the idea at LibrePlanet, 
 so we can get people on board, to help at least, then figure out what 
we are able to teach people to get them started.


Hardware such as the Raspberry Pi may not be fully RYF BUT it is very 
popular, very common and the support structure is there,   this is 
important if things go wrong they can usually find someone locally who 
can help.The RYF issue becomes a talking / education point at least.


Just a few thoughts


Paul



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Re: [FSFLA] LibreJam - FSF* should host a Libre Game development tournament!

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 05/01/2022 19:48, Dennis Payne wrote:

On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 16:10 +0100, Ismael Luceno wrote:

Making it attractive would mean the prizes and frequency of the
contests
need to yield an average much higher than what would be possible by
selling
the game, which sounds unrealistic to me.

A single top game can easily gross tens of millions, I don't think
you can
compete with the privative models this way; and even the average
good-ish
games makes 20k-25k USD on their first year.

Making it work would require a different approach.


I think you are misinformed. According to a 2020 study, over 50% of
indie games on Steam make less than $4000.

https://vginsights.com/insights/article/infographic-indie-game-revenues-on-steam

You could argue whether those were "average good-ish" but that is a lot
of games. Steam requires a $100 fee just to be listed.

$2000 prize pool for weekend or even a week of work isn't bad. To sell
a game you need to do a lot more work. Take Celeste for example. It was
made for on pico-8 for a game jam. It was a "difficult platformer with
30 levels". The commercial game had "over 200 rooms spread between
eight chapters." That was a lot of work to make it a commercial
success.

A game jam game might lead to a bigger commercial game but the game jam
itself will not be a huge seller. Game jams require you to be able to
play the games of others to give ratings and comments. You are going to
get that if you have to buy them. On itch.io I believe the only thing
you can do is make it "pay what want".




Pay what you want or perhaps what you can afford, if you are a developer 
on that model surely any income is welcome.


Paul

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Re: LibreJam - FSF* should host a Libre Game development tournament!

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 05/01/2022 05:06, Michael McMahon wrote:
In my response I wrote, "The purpose of a jam is education, 
socialization, and friendly competition while gaining functional 
experience through creating something in an area that they are 
interested in."


 From what I gathered, most game jams participants are children, 
students, hobbyists, and mentors who are not professional programmers. I 
have tried hundreds of game jam games and I would only recommend a few 
of them to be worth playing or distributing through a repository.  The 
majority of them are incomplete concepts of games.  Many are not 
playable without reading the source.  Many cannot be played.  Some are 
great!  If most game jam games ended up in standard repositories, there 
would be a negative effect on the entire ecosystem.  As gamers search 
for free games to play, they would install these game jam games and find 
a large number of low quality games.  After trying several duds, the 
negative experience could turn them away from free software altogether 
without context.  Every program does not need to be packaged.


Jams do have value.  Sometimes the journey is the destination.



I agree here,  I am running code club as a leader I can only go so far 
with my limited coding expertise.  Perhaps a game jam could take 
resources from a book here.


http://inventwithpython.com/

As that way we are all reading from the same book,  we could then help 
support people taking part,


If working with adults, this can probably be undertaken remotely,  if 
working with children you need to take in to account safeguarding etc, 
(At least from a UK viewpoint).


I am sure most people can take one of those books and work through the 
exercises,  it is nice to find a way to support people or each other 
over a set period of time (e.g 1 week).



If working remotely this is also an opportunity to teach people how to 
use git,  how to share and ask for help on forums,   what to include how 
to ask etc and learn about the 4 freedoms


Include a non free graphic and see how that affects sharing and 
development when you need to make a replacement.  Doing this step 
demonstrates why code and all assets need to be under a free license.


So other than creating games,  it presents an opportunity to learn extra 
skills which can lead in to contributing.


Paul



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Re: Global Game Jam

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 01/01/2022 12:01, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

Hi

Following on from the suggestion of a Libre Game Jam, there is an event 
coming up


https://globalgamejam.org/

This appears to be along similar lines to what was suggested, so may be 
good for some ideas.


Paul



Quick reply,  there is one in Boston, with 10 attendees

https://globalgamejam.org/2022/jam-sites/boston-global-game-jam

Paul




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Re: LibreJam - FSF* should host a Libre Game development tournament!

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 01/01/2022 04:47, Richard Stallman wrote:

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

   > Wouldn't packaging for specific distros make the game less accessible?

No.  It would make the game very accessible on some distros and have
no effect on the other distros.  It could be packaged for other
distros too.

   > Creating a specific guix or flatpak (or even debian or arch) repository
   > could allow more access to the game(s)

I think we are talking at cross purposes.  Is there a difference
between a "Debian repository" and packaging the program for Debian?
Is there a difference between a "guix repository" and packaging the
program for Guix?

I do not trust flatpack in regard to freedom issues.




So by Libre Game development tournament! are we talking about a 
competition to see who can come up with the best game ?


Just asking for clarity

Regards

Paul


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Re: LibreJam - FSF* should host a Libre Game development tournament!

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 30/12/2021 08:34, Yasuaki Kudo wrote:

Hello!

I was just casually glancing through my email inbox and this caught my 
attention!

Recently, I have become convinced that a viable way to start a new 
collaborative society is through community efforts in having fun, developing 
our own video games together and by extension, creating rich interactive 
educational content!  Not only the content itself, even the process of making 
the game itself can be made into an educational content (like the show 
PowerNation )

  I am discussing with a few people and hopefully we will start to do something 
next year .

In my opinion, Education is the key to everything, and in terms of computer 
programming, it is the way to simplify software with better algorithm, rather 
than mindlessly putting together unaccountable libraries (NPM??)

Cheers,
Yasu



Hi Yasu

This sounds like a good idea,  however at times I feel we end up just 
reinventing the wheel with things.


There are lots of platforms out there, that teach programming,

https://www.freecodecamp.org is one,  https://www.codecademy.org is 
another,  with the former their tutorials go beyond the courses on offer 
and cover a whole range of areas, including making games.


I have put info below at [1] on a recent free code camp course.


Perhaps we can make use of these existing assets, while people can 
follow the courses,  surely the language is the same, e.g c/c++ just the 
tools used can vary, so here we would prefer to use the gnu tools for 
example.


Many assets are shared via youtube,  so we can do the same via peertube, 
  I am on Diode.zone but the other instance I am on qoto.org for 
mastodon also hosts a peertube instance, so perhaps make use of what is 
already there.


Make more use of Mastodon for communication too, this will hopefully 
have the effect of showing Mastodon is not only active but has engaging 
and education conversations too.


Given the huge number of choices and options out there, it is really 
confusing for people as to where to get started with learning .  I set 
up a forum at


https://forum.tuxiversity.org/

to try and address some of this, so if you want to study say web design, 
then where do you start,  html is the same, different courses will teach 
you pretty much the same content,  lets help people take the first steps 
and support them.


The biggest problem is person power,  people having the time to dedicate 
to creating the content and supporting people with that.


People need to earn money to buy food, pay bills and put a roof over 
their heads, so if someone is going to take the time / effort to learn 
something then at the end of that there HAS to be doors opening in to 
paid work.


Perhaps as part of this, where there are jobs wuth say nextcloud, or 
other free software projects we, can see what skills are needed and 
perhaps help taylor education to help fit some of these requirements


Lets explore your ideas further

Hope this helps

Regards

Paul


References

Recent offering from free code camp

"
1. We did it. We built a video game. It took 8 months, but Learn To Code 
RPG is now live, and you can play it for yourself. In this visual novel 
video game, you learn to code, make friends, and apply for developer jobs.


It features original anime-inspired art and a jazz soundtrack written 
and performed by me. There are more than 600 Computer Science concept 
quiz questions, dozens of Easter eggs to discover, and multiple endings. 
And it's all open source.


It runs on PC, Mac, and Linux, and we'll soon publish mobile versions of 
the game, too. You can also watch the 1-hour "let's play" video with 
Ania Kubow and the game's developer, Lynn Zheng. (fully playable 3 hour 
game): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/learn-to-code-rpg/

"



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Libreoffice - license

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi


I am trying to write a short article about LibreOffice,

According to the https://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/licenses page it 
is Free Software, (links to 
https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software) however that pages 
makes more reference to the Mozilla Public License.


Is this still free software in the way the FSF define it?

Thanks

Paul
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Re: federated free software movement

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 29/11/2021 22:00, Yuchen Pei wrote:

Arthur Torrey  writes:



I never intended that we should promote non-free software / hardware
on this Libre-planet list, only that we should be tolerant about it on
whatever federation structures evolve.


How does such tolerance help the free software movement?

Best,
Yuchen



Possibly so that anyone who does have non-free hardware can be supported 
so they feel part of the community, but also feel supported in their 
next purchase so that is more free software friendly.


Lets help people to transition.

Paul
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Re: federated free software movement

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 23/11/2021 21:05, Dennis Payne wrote:

On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 18:02 +, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
wrote:

Hi
I think this may be it

https://stallman.org/cgi-bin/showpage.cgi?path=/articles/encyclopedia.html=encyclopedia=norm=0

  From https://stallman.org


I can't help but feel this is impossible to implement. It relies on the
same blind faith in technology that facebook has used to justify doing
nothing about the misinformation.

Stallman specifically mentions that holocaust denial would be allowed
but that endorsements/peer review would allow people to evaluate the
truthfulness of the article. Then says modified version would lose all
endorsements. So if people keep adding useful information to an
article, it might keep losing all it's endorsements. Holocaust denial
might appear to have more endorsements in that situation. Even if have
some way to handle that, not all endorsements are equal. If 20 medical
doctors are saying people are getting sick because of X and 50
employees from company that makes X say the cause is undetermined, I
think I'd trust the doctors.

If you can make it, more power to you.





I think you raise a good point here

https://senseaboutscience.org/ and  their project 
https://askforevidence.org/index is the sort of thing we need, so that 
we can promote proper research, debate and evidence backed research.


Holocaust denial is illegal in some countries anyway.

The last thing we want is people having a platform to post anything they 
want,  regardless of where that information comes from and to do so with 
impunity.


If someone posts an article and a credible person endorses that article, 
then the article is modified and the person endorsing it, does not 
notice (people are busy, after all) it may look like they have endorsed 
the new version,  that could easily cost people their jobs, careers and 
reputation.


Or they could be easily linked (given people fail to fact check anyway) 
to an article,  same result loss of reputation, career and job.


They could then sue the person who owns the website, and give free 
software is also about transparency, then that information would NOT be 
hidden from public view.



Paul


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Re: federated free software movement

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 22/11/2021 21:49, Yuchen Pei wrote:


jahoti via libreplanet-discuss  
writes:



On 11/16/21 7:45 PM, Dennis Payne wrote:

I don't see how a federated wikipedia would work. Even if you banned
obvious trolls, how would you deal with contentious issues? Federation
isn't some magical technologies that immediately makes everything
better.


For the case of contentious issues, Stallman did make an interesting 
suggestion in his essay proposing a free encyclopaedia that multiple 
versions of an article could be offered.


Do you happen to have a link to that essay?



Hi
I think this may be it

https://stallman.org/cgi-bin/showpage.cgi?path=/articles/encyclopedia.html=encyclopedia=norm=0

From https://stallman.org


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Re: federated free software movement

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 13/11/2021 14:29, Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting infrastructure?

I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
[1]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399

And on Mastodon. [2]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137

However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.

I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real. Plus,
I intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new initiative.

References

1. https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
2. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137


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If it helps I can approve people on the Faircam big blue button 
insgtance.  https://bbb.faircam.net/ (Big Blue Button)


You only need an account if you are going to be hosting meetings, I have 
one, so could host, but if for what ever reason I become unavailable for 
a meeting then it will mess things up.  I can also add people to any 
rooms I create


This server is hosted within the EU/UK jurstiction for the GDPR too.

Big blue button is designed for teaching,


Hope this helps

Paul

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Re: federated free software movement

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 14/11/2021 20:27, Thomas Lord wrote:


I think the FSF should have gone in this direction a long
time ago.

I think it is a very good idea to add to what you described:

a. Distributed decentralized business models that are NOT
    "getting paid to program" or "getting paid to contribute
    to a software development project".

b. Those business models aimed at spreading the personal
    use of free software, and enjoyment of software freedom,
    by people who don't program or who don't identify
    as programmers

c. That includes both service and HW provisioning components.

d. These businesses should be designed to keep product prices
    low, to increase accessibility -- yet include enough of a
    human element to be hard to reproduce at large scale.

e. The businesses should achieve real economies of scale through ...
    federation.

Trivial boring example: Entry level desktops, preloaded, with
support -- and a federation of those businesses that cooperates
freely to maintain the shared distribution they use.

Of course, that kind of thing can be infinitely specialized -- e.g.
a federation of small businesses that provide DAWs (music production
and performance software).

The idea is to make enough money to live comfortably without
trying to hoard software, supporting a lifestyle of cooperating
on maintaining and extending that software freely.

-t

+1

We could add to this that the environmental impact is that we also get 
to use older hardware longer,   I think there is some research somewhere 
on the cost making new laptops vs using older laptops for longer until 
they just stop working.


I know there are movements such as free cycle that that take hardware 
and recycle it,   this also creates jobs etc.



Paul


What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
   group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
   federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
   on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting 
infrastructure?


   I'm discussing this on my twitter too:
   [1]https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399

   And on Mastodon. [2]https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137

   However, I'm also seeking discussion here on this list.

   I wish to gauge the public's response before I proceed for real. Plus,
   I intend to bring people onboard to help me start this new initiative.

References

   1. https://twitter.com/n4of7/status/1459522798892859399
   2. https://mas.to/@libreleah/107270135261193137

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Re: federated free software movement

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 14/11/2021 17:04, Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote:



On 13/11/2021 14:29, Leah Rowe via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

    What if there was a combined Free Software, OSHW and Right to Repair
    group, providing ideological leadership in a peer to peer fashion via
    federated services (including Git-based code hosting) and an emphasis
    on teaching how to self-host your own federated hosting 
infrastructure?


This project looks very interesting:

https://forgefed.peers.community/

Federated git. Think Mastodon, but for pull requests!


This is exactly the sort of thing I want to prioritize. That, and a 
campaign advocating for self-hosting, helping people to have freedom 
over their internet hosting (including email).





+1 ,  I think this seems a little like what Aral at Small-tech is doing 
 to do https://small-tech.org/


Building the small web https://small-tech.org/research-and-development/

"We’re building the Small Web.

In a digital network, public space is not a place; it is the 
interconnections between individually-owned and controlled places.


The Small Web is a public space comprised of places you own and control."

So there is a real movement to give users back control,


Regards

Paul

    

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Re: Linux distro chooser

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 26/10/2021 02:22, jahoti via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

On 10/25/21 2:31 PM, Greg Farough wrote:
On Mon, Oct 25 2021, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss 
 wrote:

Could the fsf not perhaps adapt the tool to work alongside freedom
ladder?


I think that's a good idea, as the current FSDG distro page doesn't do
the best job of steering people toward a distro appropriate for them.
We could adapt a site like this for our own purposes, one which gives
the FSDG distros priority and wraps a similar questionnaire around
them.


As a matter of interest, does anybody know if the questionnaire used is 
available under a free license? The framework for the website is under 
the MPL 2.0 (https://github.com/distrochooser/distrochooser), yet the 
finer details of the actual selection algorithm are missing.




Yeah, I got the impression there were several different licenses for this.

Paul


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Re: Linux distro chooser

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 25/10/2021 05:03, Jean Louis wrote:

* Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss  
[2021-10-24 20:28]:

Hi All

I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find a
good linux distribution based on their needs.

https://distrochooser.de/


I don't agree it is even relevant for Libreplanet Discuss mailing list
due to reason that it offers proprietary software.

Quote:

,
| The (license) ideology of a distribution is a contentious
| debate. There are distributions using mostly "free-licenses", others
| also use "non-free" software.
|
| - [ ] I want to use free licenses as much as I can
|
| - [ ] I'm fine with non-free licenses as long as my system works
`


Hi

I do see the point being made here, however wasn't the idea behind 
freedom ladder to perhaps take people on a journey that will end with 
them using free software.  So to begin with people will perhaps need to 
use non-free to get something working, but the eventual aim is to 
eliminate the need for non-free anything.


With freedom ladder, if you start off with Windows and MS office then a 
first step could be to start to use say Libreoffice so when you do 
switch to Linux then you are familiar with the tools available,  perhaps 
switch to nextcloud for storage etc.


We need to encourage people on that transitional journey, but take in to 
account their usage needs.  Rather than stopping them right at the start 
by making that journey more of an abrupt change.


Could the fsf not perhaps adapt the tool to work alongside freedom ladder?


Regards

Paul



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Linux distro chooser

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi All

I just found this on Mastodon, a really useful tool to help people find 
a good linux distribution based on their needs.


https://distrochooser.de/

Paul

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Re: Is Telegram or Signal acceptable for harm reduction?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 05/08/2021 00:30, Jorge P. de Morais Neto via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

Hi.  Sometime ago I submit to a proprietary instant messenger for a work
chat room.  I want to get rid of it ASAP.

As I had it installed and active on my smartphone (for the work room), I
ended up joining three other chat rooms about civil service public
exams.  These three are big, so I have no hope of convincing everyone to
switch to an ethical network.  I then intend to join these rooms from my
wife’s account, on her smartphone, which I would consult weekly for new
chat messages¹.  The other room (the work one) has only seven members
(including me), so I hope to convince them to switch to a better
platform.  If they don’t want to switch, then I’ll ask them to forward
me the rare important messages via an ethical technology like SMS or
e-mail.

Now, what if my six work colleagues accept switching to another chat
network but refuse both XMPP and Matrix because "no one uses that",
accepting only Telegram or Signal?  I do currently have Telegram and
Signal accounts, but I worry about their ethics.


I can't comment on Telegram

In terms of the "no one uses that" argument.  I believe the main comms 
channel for FOSDEM 2021 was Matrix,  If we can get figures on that, we 
can do the same for other large online events and help to counter argue 
that statement.


If there is just a small group, does it matter if no one else uses it? 
As long as all members of your small group use it.


"No one uses it" is becoming more and more of an outdated excuse.  Not 
your fault but good examples + figures (seems obligatory in the business 
world) would help counter.


What about using Jitsi for meetings,  you can use video or voice chat or 
is this a messaging application.


Going back to no one uses it,  isn't XMPP the same protocol that 
WhatsApp uses?  Again Jitsi has been used for big conferences such as 
LibrePlanet, EmacsConf and others.


Paul




Telegram /does/ have free clients on GNU Guix and PureOS repositories,
which is great, but it is a centralized network, the server code is
hidden, and it doesn’t even have end-to-end encryption!  So is it a real
improvement over the fully proprietary---but allegedly end-to-end
encrypted---status quo?

What about Signal?  Compared to Telegram, it has the big advantage of
end-to-end encryption, but the disadvantage of obstructing the
distribution of modified versions of its client; it is not even
available on F-Droid, Guix or Debian (let alone PureOS).

So, should I insist on a really ethical network---XMPP or maybe
Matrix---despite the big likelihood that they will refuse, or should I
swallow Telegram or Signal?

Regards

¹ You may wonder what is the point of refusing to use the proprietary
application on my smartphone, but still using it on my wife’s
smartphone.  It is clearly still not ideal, but it does have significant
advantages:

1. I would not be discoverable in the network, so people who want to
reach me (outside those three remaining rooms) would send an email or
SMS instead.
2. I would be able to delete my account, thus reducing the unethical
network’s market value.
3. The surveillance AI would be confused with two people using the same
account.
4. I would be less tempted to join other rooms in the unethical network.

Regards



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Re: Were Intellectual Property to be abolished altogether, would you or FSF support it?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 13/07/2021 08:18, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

Il 13/07/21 00:37, Yasuaki Kudo ha scritto:
In a worker cooperative, there is one-person-one-vote democracy.  So I 
cannot just dictate that the Software Licensing we use will be GPL.


You can if you put it in the articles of incorporation or bylaws 
(depending on your jurisdiction).


Federico


With that sort of set up surely what you can do is present a strong 
argument not just ethically but also financially and technically for 
using free software, cite some good examples of where it has proven to 
be effective.  Ideally that people can related to.


The internet runs on free software (well mostly) for example.

Libreoffice documentation is coming along nicely, which helps, do not 
assume people can simply pick up some software and just use it without 
help.  In some cases are even just able to search and find the right 
information.


I think the idea of platform coops is something I suggested on social 
hub as a way to expend the fediverse, as in more people running their 
own server or have small groups doing so. They like the idea we, as with 
free software we need some sort of critical mass using it.


Paul



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Re: Were Intellectual Property to be abolished altogether, would you or FSF support it?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 11/07/2021 00:44, Yasuaki Kudo wrote:

This is a thought experiment:

Would you or FSF support the idea of abolishing the concept of intellectual 
property altogether, making any form of 'Software Licensing', including GPL, 
null and void.  Gone also will be any form of Patents and Copyrights.

Just curious 
-Yasu


Given that the Creative Commons "wanna work together video" says we have 
an all rights reserved copyright on anything we create,  surely we need 
some rights if we create something.


It protects what we create surely and allows us to make money from 
this,k people need to eat, buy clothes, pay rents etc.   If we removed 
that ability then how would we make money.


This gives creators a base to either make the copyright stronger or 
release under a cc license or even a cc-0 licensel


I do like the idea that creators should be paid directly, I know the 
music industry gives people a bad deal on that one.


I create stuff that people seem just happy to make use of without even 
giving me credit, or even just take credit for them selves.


This needs more discussion as there are clearly ideas that depend on our 
own viewpoint, which depend on our own knowledge and experience.  I 
don't think there is a black and white answer to this.  Looking at 
Aarons response there seems to be a need for some safeguards in place.


Paul



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Re: Freedom ladder call for participation

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 08/07/2021 21:24, Greg Farough wrote:

Hi, everyone,

You might have seen this already, but we're looking for community
participation[1] on a new guide of ours called the "freedom ladder,"
which we hope will allow people unfamiliar with free software to take
their first steps into the movement.

One extremely important problem with general GNU/Linux "guides" is
that they end up encouraging the user to rest content with a computer
running at least some amount of nonfree software, if they even bother
to talk about software freedom at all. By contrast, we want ours to
acknowledge that it isn't necessary to go from a fully proprietary
computing setup to a fully free one in the span of a single day,
*while at the same time* encourage them in a way that keeps the fully
free "finish line" constantly in mind. Every little bit helps, and
it's important to keep in mind that every refusal[2] to use a
proprietary program is a step in the right direction.

We'd love your help on this, so over the course of the next month
we'll be hosting some IRC sessions[3] about each of the steps that we've
drafted.

Hoping to hear from you and to see you there.

-g

[1]: 
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/the-journey-begins-with-a-single-step-climb-the-freedom-ladder
[2]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/saying-no-even-once.html
[3]: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Freedom_Ladder


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Sounds interesting, I'll keep an eye on the IRC chat etc.

Paul

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Re: MS Teams and Windows 11

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 26/06/2021 08:04, Jean Louis wrote:

* Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss  
[2021-06-26 10:02]:

In the mean time,

https://test.bigbluebutton.org/

is a useful link to allow people to try out Big Blue Button,  lets promote
the alternatives, of course there is also jit.si but BBB is designed for
education,  esp as if a BBB instance can be hosted in different
jurisdictions (such as in the EU/UK) then the GDPR apples.

Just thought I would highlight this.  If a barrier to people using free and
open source software is a perceived lack of tools,  is it due to the lack of
tools or lack of awareness of alternatives.   Most people have never heard
of Big Blue Button or Jit.si for example.


There is also OpenMeetings

Apache OpenMeetings Project – Installation
https://openmeetings.apache.org/installation.html

Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

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Thanks for this, having a range of options is a good thing, I will make 
a blog post that links to all 3.  To at least promote the alternatives. 
  Granted this is a personal blog butt if it helps to spread the word 
then that is a good thing surely.


Paul
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MS Teams and Windows 11

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi All

I found something interesting in a BBC news article with regard to MS 
teams and Windows 11.


It seems that Teams will be even more integrated in to the next release 
of windows.   I am not a legal expert.  However this could once again 
prove to be a monopoly grab for MS and just highlights they don't get it 
when it comes to un competitive practice.  MS have been in court for 
Anti trust violations.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57597352

I am not sure if the FSF legal department can take a look at this, as it 
may be something that the FSF, FSFE, EFF and others need to scrutinize 
to see if there is a violation in competition law.


I can't see the people behind zoom being very happy about this either, 
so we should perhaps be more vocal about it, but more to the promotion 
of alternative.



In the mean time,

https://test.bigbluebutton.org/

is a useful link to allow people to try out Big Blue Button,  lets 
promote the alternatives, of course there is also jit.si but BBB is 
designed for education,  esp as if a BBB instance can be hosted in 
different jurisdictions (such as in the EU/UK) then the GDPR apples.


Just thought I would highlight this.  If a barrier to people using free 
and open source software is a perceived lack of tools,  is it due to the 
lack of tools or lack of awareness of alternatives.   Most people have 
never heard of Big Blue Button or Jit.si for example.


Hope this helps

Regards

Paul Sutton


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Re: Latex freedom issues

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 25/06/2021 02:10, quil...@riseup.net wrote:

I was notified by the Hyperbola GNU developers that Latex will be
removed.  There is a freedom bug report on:
https://labs.parabola.nu/issues/972
Would this issue affect other FSF approved distros?

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Hi All

Just followng this,  LaTeX is optimised for science and maths 
typesetting I find it very useful for general use anyway, i have both my 
CV and letter template in LaTeX.


As far as I am concerned it is Free software,  granted I do use it using 
Overleaf but I like the cloud side of that,  which I know isn't fully 
free software but this is about being practical.


I really hope that LaTeX (and from replies it will) stays available as I 
think a lot of people would miss it if removedl


Paul

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21st Debian Conference August 22 to August 29, 2021.
DebCamp from August 15 to August 21, 2021

https://debconf21.debconf.org/



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Re: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 06/05/2021 08:34, Jean Louis wrote:

"text spreadsheet" calculator using awk, tsort and bc/calc that allows
me to mark up the calculations on the forms and then compute the
dependencies, generate calculations and generate the results as an
output text file.


We are s late with speech recognition. Calculations at least
should be handled by pure speech. I remember some 25 years ago
watching speech recognition on Windows, it worked well, after some
training.

We need speech recognition scripting. Then it becomes easy to provide
a lot of accessible programs.

Top ten here:
https://www.ubuntupit.com/best-open-source-speech-recognition-tools-for-linux/

I really need one scriptable speech recognition, that I can run
function, invoke recognition and get the result with certainty. If I
have such function I can include it in the software I am developing now.

RCD Notes for Emacs
https://hyperscope.link/3/7/1/5/5/RCD-Notes-for-Emacs-37155.html


One problem is that I think there are now lots of patents on speech 
recognition. Does this make using speech recognition harder to 
implement,  we have text to speech too, could that be implemented at the 
UI level, even in menus or dialogue boxes.



Paul

 Jean


Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/
https://rms-support-letter.github.io/



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Re: Blind user complaining on Adobe web site

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 06/05/2021 07:11, Greg Knittl wrote:

Hi Ali,

I'm sighted and have plenty of trouble interacting with the world 
through my computer. I can't imagine how I would manage to even get as 
far as going through all the steps to convert pdfs to text if I were 
blind. My hat is off to you.


As a sighted user trying to do my income taxes on Linux in Canada, I 
cannot rely on the etext forms for the blind to be up to date. Similar 
to you, I convert the PDF tax forms to text. This year I have written a 


"text spreadsheet" calculator using awk, tsort and bc/calc that allows 
me to mark up the calculations on the forms and then compute the 
dependencies, generate calculations and generate the results as an 
output text file.


I note the following limitations of converting PDF to text:
1/ I'm unable to convert XFA PDFs to text (fortunately only Ontario 
provincial forms, not federal income tax forms so far)
2/ The fine points of the PDF layout seem to get mangled. For example 
the Canadian tax forms use indentation to show nested calculations and I 
find that harder to see on the text version of the PDF. In general the 
etext versions of the tax forms are more sequential, which is easier for 
me as a sighted user to program against.
3/ Any calculations built into the PDF are lost. I think my "text 
spreadsheet" demonstrates that it is perfectly possible to mark up 
calculation steps on text forms sufficiently precisely to allow programs 
to calculate them. I would think it should be possible to generate a 
common specification for embedding calculations into text files, 
allowing programs to be written for this. I would be interested to know 



whether it might also be of interest to blind users.

Seems to me that the blind shouldn't have to put up with any of these 3 


limitations and various laws may, in theory, give them the clout to 
enforce equality. This would also benefit me as a sighted user on Linux. 
This is a more specific example of potential synergy between Linux and 
users with disabilities.


thanks,
Greg


I agree with you here,  but should it require new laws to make 
developers do the right thing and make things accessible,  there is a 
marketing term UPS (Unique Selling Point) here,  if we can make software 
accessible to everyone then that counts in our favour, it is the 'right' 
thing to do, and yes it is difficult, challenging etc, but surely people 
are up for the challenge.


It shows we need more diversity in software development processes, but 
also that developers need to be more in tune with their users,  even if 
this is at the cost of extra features.


I know this is difficult, we need to see things from a view point of a 
user, (who may not be an expert with computers) I do still feel that 
computing is 'elitist' we need to learn to engage with users.  Even with 
a degree of expertise we should not need that to do basic everyday or 
essential tasks.


I can't comment on the tax forms, but one thing that may help here is to 
contact the federal tax office and praise them for getting it right and 
ask if they can encourage others (in this case Ontario) to follow suit 
in terms of accessibility.  Show a good example of what works, as a 
model of this.


Lets keep this discussion going, but turn it in to proper action to 
ensure everyone can access digital services fully.



Hope this helps

Paul



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Re: Overlap between the Software Freedom movement and the Right to Repair?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 29/04/2021 18:06, Greg Knittl wrote:

Hi Lars,

The various GNU licences rely on copyright. I'm not sure if this is just 
trying to make the best of a bad situation by hacking copyright into 
it's opposite or whether belief in copyright is intrinsic to Software 
Freedom.


Whatever the Software Freedom take is, I'm very much in favour of the 
right to repair. If only to reduce the amount of e-waste we generate. 
I'm in favour of a fundamental right to minimize one's carbon footprint, 
that would outweigh copyright when copyright gets in the way of repair 
and reuse in cases where it is less carbon intensive to repair and reuse 
than to build new. I see this as complimentary to and enhancing the 
right to repair which I'm sure has other good justifications independent 
of carbon footprint.


The potential conflict with Software Freedom being that overriding 
copyright might override the Software Freedom attempt to hack copyright 



into it's opposite and the sharing that enforces.

Greg




I too,agree with right to repair,  on the basis that repairing devices 
can reduce e-waste and therefore our own carbon footprint. This is 
especially useful when the fault, is something very simple that can be 
fixed.


I think this is more a moral, ethical issue,  allowing ewaste to pile 
high,  removing more rare eath elements from the ground , and the 
associated damage (and in some cases exploitation) that comes with this, 
is really important to consider,  we can't keep taking these elements 
from the ground, without considering the consequences of doing so.


Children and young people understand this, they understand what is 
happening to the planet.  they look to us to take action to protect the 
planet, and are also holding adults to account and blaming US for the 
damage being done to the planet.


There is also a finite supply,


Paul


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Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 13/04/2021 06:57, Jean Louis wrote:

Can you easily sue people who are backed by multi billion dollar
companies, or more to the point sue and win.


Of course it is possible. And need not cost much.

But it is not about large companies, there are just few individual
accusers. Additionally when there are criminal elements, it does not
cost much to report it to authorities who then act on behalf of the
state and spend their own money in following criminals.

In my opinion FSF should use part of funds to legally defend its
members from nonsense defamations. That is what foundations and
non-profits do.


The Free software community is, after all , a community of people who care
about the cause,  that potentially makes us more powerful as we have a 

voice

and we can, if we try come together in a show of strength.


FSF is not equal to free software community and personal attacks like
those brought against RMS are not at all relevant to free software or
free software community, not even relevant to FSF. Mixing those issues
is the source of the problem. Keeping relations separate and making
conclusions separately for each relation is reasonable approach.

When you mention free software community, there is common purpose, and
we do not agree on everything but on common purpose, but when it comes
to personal attacks, crimes, libel, defamation, that is where each
individual has legal rights to defend.

Let big companies waste money suing each other,  lets spend what funds 

we

have on promoting the cause, see legal action as a last resort,   Our
collective actions can counter defamation easily by posting and spreading
the truth.


I would not say that helps, as agony endures for long time. Would RMS
hire an attorney to send a letter to accuser, it would or could long
ago be handled. Exactly for the reason that RMS is weak in defense,
that is why some of people have chosen to keep defaming and harassing.

It is even easier to defame public figures.
https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/proving-fault-actual-malice-and-negligence

In some countries it is illegal to defame others even if statements
are true, that is irrelevant. In United States, defamation must be
untrue to win in court.

Public accusation is serious act that influences legally, and
politically and financially the work of FSF and RMS, it influences
community negatively.

Any such defamation, public harassment, cyber-bullying acts should be
legally defended and court judgments published.

That is what FSF and RMS do not do currently, I would not know why.

Jean



Hi Jean, thank you for this.

I agree on the points you have made here. +1 to defending RMS as 
thinking about it, others are being attacked just for supporting RMS.


Paul



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Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 12/04/2021 19:17, Jean Louis wrote:

* Adrienne G. Thompson  [2021-04-12 20:34]:


  As the lies are still being told and not-at-all-proven accusations
  go
  on, I thought it's good to mention the
  [1]https://stallmansupport.org site.
  It has a link to the support letter and also includes good articles
  from
  Nadine Strossen, Hannah Wolfman-Jones, Sylvia Paull, Renata Avila,
  and
  Leah Rowe.


Very good one, when I read those noble and well written articles, I
feel injustice and sorrow for what happened to a person of good
will. He does not even defend himself by himself, though he could
easily sue and win for various offenses committed against RMS.

So much factless defamatory statements have been made, and this
website remedies it all with factual references and demonstration of
the truth.

Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/
https://rms-support-letter.github.io/


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Can you easily sue people who are backed by multi billion dollar 
companies,  or more to the point sue and win.


The Free software community is, after all , a community of people who 
care about the cause,  that potentially makes us more powerful as we 
have a voice and we can, if we try come together in a show of strength.


Let big companies waste money suing each other,  lets spend what funds 
we have on promoting the cause, see legal action as a last resort,   Our 
collective actions can counter defamation easily by posting and 
spreading the truth.


Paul



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Re: Helping new contributors

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 09/04/2021 12:39, Jean Louis wrote:

* Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss  
[2021-04-09 14:08]:

Hi All

In an effort to try and recruit and importantly help find more developers at
all levels I am trying to reach out to people locally.

I think what is needed here, is a clearly laid out pathway in to free
software contribution using free software tools.


Which software in particular?


Who ever needs help



So for example, a project needs to make it clear which programming languages
/ frameworks or skills are needed, from there we can find ways to helping
learners develop those skills


I would not say so, as it is not a company with limited resources. We
are society and we contribute our knowledge and skills as we wish and
want, thus there is no limit in our resources. That is why it is not
good to say in free software projects that specific skills or
programming languages are needed.

Instead, welcoming everybody's contribution is better approach. This
is how it was done for many years. This process then helps that some
people give only suggestions, some people will donate, some will
become fans and promoters, some will contribute patches, and some will
enter into core development teams.


Agreed


My suggestions is not to say which skills or programming languages are
needed. But I understand you are browsing list of programmers and wish
to ask them to contribute.

Then think about specific project and find yourself what is required,
and try to find people that way.



Ok,  i think I am too used to the way people recruit for jobs,


How can we take people from having some basic IT knowledge and then
help them develop further, without it taking up masses of our time
(unless people pay us of course)


Simple. Open up computer club. Put several computers, advertise and
people will come from the area to learn. Ask them to pay memberships
and come as many times as they wish and want. This is great activity,
I have been doing it.


Well we do have the south devon tech jam which covers stem,  until we 
can get back to meeting face to face then opportunity to promote is more 
limited.


Then schedule programming classes. I have been teaching people already
as minor. Let them teach each other, we programmed in machine language
on peculiar computers, even today we do not know their names.

I have same intention now, I have soon enough computers to start, some
furniture and room space and people, it can work. I will inform here
when it starts. It will be named GNU Free Software Club.


Sounds good



It would just be useful to have some sort of backing to this. I have joined
DebianAcademy team to help develop materials, so they are working on a
packaging course, and a few others.  I created a course on LaTeX
presentations, so people could contribute)


Great. There are free computer courses online already on
Wikiversity. Consider contributing into that
database. https://www.wikiversity.org/

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Computer


Cool thanks,  could be a good place to list my study support group, 
granted it is not all computing but there are more and more elements of 
computer / data science in other subjects, so basic coding is needed. 
If I can bring people together that will help.





I am just concerned that if we insist on using fully free software
tool online tools, people are not going to bother, they will however


I don't bother about that, computer club will be named GNU Free
Software Club and it will be clear from beginning what it is about. If
they use some software at their home, it does not matter, but in the
club, in physical space there will be no such.


I can present an idea to people locally (Torbay, Devon), but I am under the
serious impression we need to spell out EXACTLY what people are to expect
and learn, rather than suggesting a general idea.


For each class of knowledge you teach people different things.

Please state clearly purpose of your project?


By doing this ourselves, as advocates of free software, we can
include links to why free software methologies are better, even if
we have to be a little flexible in what we use for support and
communication, Discourse my not be ideal, but would we rather people
used facebook or discord?


Of course not Facebook. It is very easy to establish XMPP chat, it can
be on the website or by using various applications, it will work from
any device. There are other free software communication packages.


My support group is about respecting privacy /user freedom as much
as possible.


In that case how can you use Facebook as a tool? Do you know that FB
data has been leaked for 522 millions?


I am saying i am not going to use facebook hence I want to use 
discourse, irc, etc,   My point is, that while discourse may not be 100 
percent free software  it s better than facebook.


https://hyperscope.link/3/6/8/5/8/Direct-download-of-533M-Facebook-users-phone-numbers-and-personal-data-have-been-leaked-online-36858.html


I just hope the EU

Helping new contributors

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi All

In an effort to try and recruit and importantly help find more 
developers at all levels I am trying to reach out to people locally.


I think what is needed here, is a clearly laid out pathway in to free 
software contribution using free software tools.


So for example, a project needs to make it clear which programming 
languages / frameworks or skills are needed, from there we can find ways 
to helping learners develop those skills


While, rather old, this guide is still useful

https://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/index.html
also resources from
https://personaljournal.ca/studysupportgroup/i-am-sharing-this-here-too-as-programming-is-applicable-to-science-and-data 
e.g bash command line and the c book.


How can we take people from having some basic IT knowledge and then help 
them develop further, without it taking up masses of our time (unless 
people pay us of course)


In a way we can dictate to people our terms are they use irc / mailing 
list to ask questions, is that unreasonable ?  Given that other 
providers will insist on closed platforms generally.


I am trying to set up a support group for mostly science, the related 
discourse forum does have a computer category.



https://personaljournal.ca/studysupportgroup/

It would just be useful to have some sort of backing to this. I have 
joined DebianAcademy team to help develop materials, so they are working 
on a packaging course, and a few others.  I created a course on LaTeX 
presentations, so people could contribute)


I am just concerned that if we insist on using fully free software tool 
online tools, people are not going to bother, they will however


I can present an idea to people locally (Torbay, Devon), but I am under 
the serious impression we need to spell out EXACTLY what people are to 
expect and learn, rather than suggesting a general idea.


People are used to being taught, rather than self directed learning. ;

By doing this ourselves, as advocates of free software, we can include 
links to why free software methologies are better, even if we have to be 
a little flexible in what we use for support and communication, 
Discourse my not be ideal, but would we rather people used facebook or 
discord ?  My support group is about respecting privacy /user freedom as 
much as possible.  We can use BBB for classroom type chat, over using 
zoom or teams.


It raises the profile and promotes alternatives through usage, rather 
than us just saying the are better platforms.


Just a thought. Can the FSF / GNU help me develop this idea further?


Paul

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Re: easy CoC solution: permanently end in-person conference

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

You have a good point here,  we need to find a way to reduce our carbon 
footprint, attend these conferences but with the benefits that come with 
that.


I think this is perfectly do-able, and something that the fsf should 
look in to,  after all it would show we are forward thinking.


At a local level we can branch off to work on local issues,  after 
watching and learning form each other, share local experiences etc.


I joined the DebianAcademy team back in November and am also working on 
trying to set up a study support group for those who are distance learning


https://personaljournal.ca/studysupportgroup/

So like you suggest here,  we need to perhaps decentralised and still 
get the benefits of working and being able to talk and learn from each 
other.


LibrePlanet also proves we can do this with free and open source 
software,  DebConf is also virtual this year, so again they are doing 
the same.



Paul









On 04/04/2021 16:27, Aaron Wolf wrote:

FWIW, among other family issues, I have myself felt uncomfortable with
the prospect of flying to conferences for exactly this reason. The stats
on the environmental significance of flying are overwhelming. I saw
something like a flight within the U.S. 48-states being comparable to 8
months of average driving.

I also heard a good argument that the *enemies* of a healthy, free,
sustainable society (such as the developers of the worst and most
abusive proprietary software and also the people behind the most
polluting industries) are continuing to fly all over and do everything
they can to retain *their* solidarity and businesses.

I do not believe in fighting fire with fire. I do not believe two wrongs
make a right. But I do believe that we should take a consequentialist or
utilitarian approach that is thinking in the long-term. If (and maybe
only if) activists flying to get together is part of what makes enough
difference to a movement that it really has more impact, it will be
worth it.

If 500 plane trips happen and the connections they support lead to
stripping away the power of the oligarchs who block society from
becoming truly sustainable, then it could be worth it.

But maybe a small number of people can do global-reach in-person
conferences that bring together effectively representatives of more
localized conferences that don't involve flying.

Here's a suggestion: how about an organized global LibrePlanet where a
smaller gathering is held in every large city in the world. People from
the region of each city will gather, have valuable in-person
connections, and efforts will be made to all engage together. Every
local gathering will watch a keynote presentation and so on.

We should be conscious of the impacts and costs of our choices, but we
should also not sacrifice our effectiveness as a movement.

In harmony,
Aaron Wolf

On 2021-04-04 12:33 a.m., Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss wrote:



On 04/04/2021 03:54, Thomas Lord wrote:

   Good programmers inevitably learn, somewhere along the way, the
   following lesson:
   When you encounter a very hard problem to solve, don't spend all
   your time just on the problem.  Also question whether it really
   needs to be solved - or if a better approach avoids the problem in
   the first place.
   Libre Planet is built on the following intolerable premise: People
   should fly from around the world to Boston, once a year, to connect
   free software activists and enthusiasts in a social setting
   conducive to sharing presentations, meeting, and having informal
   discussions.
   Only one part of that premise is no longer tolerable, at all, in
   2021: the travel it requires.  Air travel is, with perhaps very
rare
   exceptions, wildly, intolerably socially irresponsible.  The rate

at

   which fossil fuel emissions must now fall is so rapid, it not
   compatible with widespread air travel, and it is not compatible
with
   current levels of energy demand.
   This same problem, in addition to the 

pandemic's discouragement of

   large "meatspace" conferences, effects not only Libre Planet, but
   everyone on the planet.  Few are 

no fly-in conferences are anything

   but extremely irresponsible in 2021.  It's just a fact.

     Image

   It will be hard to replace the Libre Planet conference but perhaps
   not *too* hard 64Good programmers inevitably learn, somewhere along
   the way, the following lesson:
   When you encounter a very hard problem to solve, don't spend all
   your time just on the problem.  Also question whether it really
   needs to be solved - or if a better approach avoids the problem in
   the first place.
   Libre Planet is built on the following intolerable premise: People
   should fly from around the world to Boston, once a year, to connect
   free software activists and enthusiasts in a social setting
   conducive 

Re: easy CoC solution: permanently end in-person conference

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 04/04/2021 03:54, Thomas Lord wrote:

  Good programmers inevitably learn, somewhere along the way, the
  following lesson:
  When you encounter a very hard problem to solve, don't spend all
  your time just on the problem.  Also question whether it really
  needs to be solved - or if a better approach avoids the problem in
  the first place.
  Libre Planet is built on the following intolerable premise: People
  should fly from around the world to Boston, once a year, to connect
  free software activists and enthusiasts in a social setting
  conducive to sharing presentations, meeting, and having informal
  discussions.
  Only one part of that premise is no longer tolerable, at all, in
  2021: the travel it requires.  Air travel is, with perhaps very rare
  exceptions, wildly, intolerably socially irresponsible.  The rate 

at

  which fossil fuel emissions must now fall is so rapid, it not
  compatible with widespread air travel, and it is not compatible with
  current levels of energy demand.
  This same problem, in addition to the pandemic's discouragement of
  large "meatspace" conferences, effects not only Libre Planet, but
  everyone on the planet.  Few are no fly-in conferences are anything
  but extremely irresponsible in 2021.  It's just a fact.

Image

  It will be hard to replace the Libre Planet conference but perhaps
  not *too* hard 64Good programmers inevitably learn, somewhere along
  the way, the following lesson:
  When you encounter a very hard problem to solve, don't spend all
  your time just on the problem.  Also question whether it really
  needs to be solved - or if a better approach avoids the problem in
  the first place.
  Libre Planet is built on the following intolerable premise: People
  should fly from around the world to Boston, once a year, to connect
  free software activists and enthusiasts in a social setting
  conducive to sharing presentations, meeting, and having informal
  discussions.
  Only one part of that premise is no longer tolerable, at all, in
  2021: the travel it requires.  Air travel is, with perhaps very rare
  exceptions, wildly, intolerably socially irresponsible.  The rate 

at

  which fossil fuel emissions must now fall is so rapid, it not
  compatible with widespread air travel, and it is not compatible with
  current levels of energy demand.
  This same problem, in addition to the pandemic's discouragement of
  large "meatspace" conferences, effects not only Libre Planet, but
  everyone on the planet.  Few are no fly-in conferences are anything
  but extremely irresponsible in 2021.  It's just a fact.
  It will be hard to replace the Libre Planet conference but perhaps
  not *too* hard.  We have software like jitsi.  We have telephony
systems.
  So forth.
  Perhaps Libre Planet should evolve into an annual "big event" online
  but also an ongoing series of smaller online events.   I don't know.
  People with a clearer picture of the needs should discuss that.
  For now, it is enough to say that a conference premised on air-travel
  is in and of itself an astonishing anti-social proposition in 2021,
and
  from now on.
  Of course online conferences also need behavioral guidelines, but
  there is no point squabbling over those until we begin to have some
  permanent online conference infrastructure in place.  And until that
  infrastructure is in place, Libre Planet should do the right thing
and
  take no further steps that would  encourage air travel.

-t


This appears to be more of a 'environmental' argument rather than a code 
of conduct argument.   But some good points are raised.


That aside, I think there is an element of meeting old / new friends at 
conferences, the positive relationships that form and opportunities that 
arise out of this can in some cases outweigh even the best conference 
speech.


The pandemic has caused a lot of problems,  in terms of isolation and 
mental health which has resulted by isolation.  People want to get back 
out and the human instinct is to be in groups.


I think there is scope for hybrid conferences,  but it would be nice to 
fly over.   If that isn't possible then what we have virtually works 
really well, so lets find ways to stream live conference talks at events.


Don't forget also that conferences are really valuable to local 
economies,  people using hotels,  visiting local shops, cafes bars, 
restaurants give local economies a real boost and esp when many have had 
to close for a year.Without this these places would close, jobs 
would be lost.   If I fly over to Libreplanet in Boston from the UK, I 
would probably want to stay for a week, see the sighgts around boston. 
I would guess others  would look to do the same.


We get together in 

Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 31/03/2021 22:16, Matt Ivie wrote:

On Sat, 2021-03-27 at 12:06 +, Robbt wrote:

I just hope that everyone can try to have some empathy for each other
and remember that those of us here are on the same side in our desire
for increasing software freedom and empowering people to have control
over the technology in their lives.


You wrote a lot, but I liked this the most.


I agree here,  lets focus on promoting and advocating free software, 
freedom, privacy etc.  Especially now there is also concerns in terms of 
AI used for recruitment systems and other systems, how they are 
implemented, used and if there are any biases within the programming 
(being free software would help that to be audited, and even help the 
software AI improve over time.


Paul



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Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 30/03/2021 04:23, quil...@riseup.net wrote:

Jean Louis  writes:


* quiliro  [2021-03-29 18:48]:

* A policy where you are innocent of a crime till proven guilty, this
protects both victims and the accused.  Investigations should aim to
reach the facts of what happened,


I did not write this.




That may have been me writing that,  the current cancel mentality means 
that a single line from a statement, clip from video, social media post 
is taken and used against someone.  If what is said is later clarified, 
(which can be quite common for things to be explained further later in a 
document or video at least)


However that statement surely also applies to the legal system, you are 
innocent until proven guilty,  investigations collate evidence, 
establish facts,  both the prosecution and defense can cross examine 
this in court.  Surely the same applies in the work place.


I am from the UK so maybe work place culture is different here.

Lets just move on, build a community where people can work together, 
feel safe and feel they 'can' continue to speak up.





Paul



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Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 27/03/2021 19:59, quiliro wrote:

Thomas Lord  writes:


"What we need to do, is have very robust standards of how people
behave,  drawn up by and for the community,"


The only "problem" you seem to have a solution for is the one of a few
people making fairly ridiculous accusations and complaints.  Your
solution is apparently to put them in charge of a much more
authoritarian organization.


I also had that impression of this statement by Paul.  But I decided to
give it the benefit of the doubt.  I think he means just having more
control of processes, not of people.  Processes encourage good
relationships.  To motivate would not mean to force.  I think that would
be good, generally speaking.



Yes,  putting processes are in place to encourage good relationships,  I 
helped to moderate at libreplanet and didn't feel the libreplanet safe 
space policy was in any way dictatorial, it was a short but well written 
set of expectations.


I am just sharing ideas, looks like the fsf have is already making 
changes, but it is better  than people just saying thing have to change, 
sometimes you need to suggest ideas and input, rather than just 
demanding change.


Just to say thank you and I appreciate the fact my comments are welcome, 
and hopefully this is a small part of a bigger picture.


Just having the safe space policy may be enough, may be a few tweaks but 
it pretty much covers everything.


Paul

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Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

 in growing
the free software movement.

Best,
Deb




On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:03 PM Jean Louis  wrote:


* Deb Nicholson  [2021-03-26 16:52]:

    An interesting thing about men who harass women is that they usually
    don't do it to men. Men who let the community know that they "don't
    believe in harassment" are the last people to find out it's happening,
    because no one feels safe telling them.


Generalization without end.

Why are you sending accusations to this mailing list? How is this
mailing list to defend your rights? Or is your only purpose to divide
and bring more hate here?


    Well, it's disappointing but not surprising that a call for improving
    the way people are treated within the free software movement is being
    seen by some on this list as "hateful" or somehow in "opposition to
    free software." I honestly don't see how creating a haven for sexist
    behavior and disrespect can lead to the movement's growth, but maybe
    I'm mistaken in thinking that we all want that growth.
    I am grateful to those who are interested in working towards an
    inclusive and non-toxic future for the free software movement. Maybe
    I'll get to work with you all someday on one of the projects that is
    interested in growing the free software movement.
    Best,
    Deb

    On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:03 PM Jean Louis  wrote:

  * Deb Nicholson <[1]d...@eximiousproductions.com> [2021-03-26 16:52]:
  >    An interesting thing about men who harass women is that they
  usually
  >    don't do it to men. Men who let the community know that they
  "don't
  >    believe in harassment" are the last people to find out it's
  happening,
  >    because no one feels safe telling them.
  Generalization without end.
  Why are you sending accusations to this mailing list? How is this
  mailing list to defend your rights? Or is your only purpose to
  divide
  and bring more hate here?

References

    1. mailto:d...@eximiousproductions.com
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Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 26/03/2021 18:25, Thomas Lord wrote:

No "path forward" is needed in reaction to  people repeating the same
accusations that don't stand up to scrutiny.

Where we need paths forward is in strategic and tactical decisions
about what free software to try to bring into existence, and what can
be done to expand the mass of people who care about and work to promote
software freedom.  Those are examples of what forums like this are for.

-t



On 2021-03-26 11:15, Danny Spitzberg wrote:

Thomas, you keep using the word "lies" to refer testimonies in this
thread from former FSF staff.



Do you mean to say that these people are all lying?



Also, more importantly, are you implying that Paul and Aaron and Deb
and every proposal for a path forward is all... bad?



Part of my point was to try and suggest a policy going forward ensures 
that any accusations made in the future,  however trivial they may seem 
are investigated properly and dealt with,  it could be a simple mis 
understanding, which if explained both parties leave, hopefully happy it 
has been resolved.


Allowing complaints to go ignored or be fobbed off (I have personal 
experience of being a VICTIM of this) simply makes people more scared of 
speaking out,  think it is pointless,   leads to mis trust and quite bad 
feelings, to the point where you consider those who fobbed you off as 
ACCESSORY TO THE CRIME.


Should an employee have to give their employer an ultimatum that the 
abuse they are being subjected to stops or that person will take legal 
action under article 3 of the human rights act, that outlaws humiliating 
and degrading treatment.


The threat of that action worked for me, but I should NEVER have been 
put into that position in the first place.


Sometimes what may seem an innocent comment can be quite offensive, if 
handled properly the two parties can be brought together, to explain how 
each feels, and that generally should result in forgiveness and a better 
 understanding of each other.  Esp when it was down to a simple mis 
understanding.



Paul




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Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 26/03/2021 15:54, Aaron Wolf wrote:

I really appreciate seeing the perspective from Georgia. Thanks also
deeply to Deb Nicholson for engaging here in this space. Obviously,
these negative reports about RMS being presented *here* amounts to the
opposite of an echo-chamber. These voices are bring extremely valuable
perspective — the sort we *lose* if we aren't careful to assure that our
spaces are not only open to anyone but actually in *practice* have them
feel welcome and stay.

The Free Software movement is weaker for every loss of perspective. We
have a duty to be not only gracious but appreciative of people like Deb
for engaging and staying with us despite the tensions.

Georgia's line is exceptionally important: "…the fact that he faced
consequences for his creepy Epdtein-adjacent comments and not the
decades of shitty behavior…"

These are not people who are dogpiling on hearsay or gotcha online
statements or whatever else. Those anti-patterns do indeed happen, and
they polluted and harmed the credibility of the recent open letter
against RMS. But here we have people who fully understand the unfairness
and yet can express from extensive personal experience the *actual*
reasons why RMS's leadership is problematic.

As someone who deeply and profoundly respects RMS for various reasons, I
still don't just simply support his leadership role. I do not want him
banished, I want him to learn and do better on his pain points. I don't
want to be naive though, efforts in this direction have obviously been
done for years and not been enough.

I would like to continue to get RMS' insightful and pointed perspectives
without having him lead the organization. I would like him to live in
the zone where his genius most thrives and he contributes the most, and
I suggest that the other roles he has had would be better filled by others.

If we want a resilient movement, we need to be really open to engaging
with complaints. An organization that defends the status quo against
such critics is like the NSA attacking Ed Snowden and people insinuating
that Snowden is working for Russia (similar to people talking about how
Deb now works for the OSI and the OSI is connected to corporations).

I'm not suggesting deference to the outside unfair critics, the people
who do indeed levy unfair attacks, mine quotes, spread FUD, etc. That
stuff can be real, and we need to defend against it.

But people like Deb are our whistleblowers, they are insiders who are
bringing attention to serious issues. If we ignore or attack
whistleblowers, we will fail to learn important lessons. This attitude
can be fatal to a movement.

In solidarity,
Aaron Wolf
(FSF member since 2014, co-founder of Snowdrift.coop)



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I agree, here,  there are clearly things that have happened that are of 
concern, but that seems to happen elsewhere in the free software, the 
tech community and out side too.


What we need to do, is have very robust standards of how people behave, 
 drawn up by and for the community, standards based on good practice 
from other communities, and look beyond free software. Ideas / policies 
need to be evidence, data based so that they are credible.


Once done, and it will never get fully completed, as it is needs to be 
constantly refined, it is not a write once then forget thing.


* Examine Annually, to make sure the policy / policies are still 
working, relevant, inclusive and represent everyone concerned.


* Clear policy on training, of staff and new staff / volunteers so 
people are educated in equality and diversity.  If that means an agreed 
policy on pronouns it is then consistent fsf wide.


* A clear policy on what happens, if a complaint is made, how it is 
handled, time scale and what, if any the consequences are, how are 
allegations handled for example?


* Fully transparent,

* Something that can be learnt from

* Everyone agrees and no one is above this

* A policy where you are innocent of a crime till proven guilty, this 
protects both victims and the accused.  Investigations should aim to 
reach the facts of what happened,


* If these things are handled properly, there is no need to whistleblow 
or just leave which to me that is a last resort.


* Make it clear what the talk is about, and the talk is relevant to free 
software, drm, etc, Right to repair or which ever it is,


We have a safe space policy for libre  that states certain things are 
not tolerated.



Just a few thoughts

Hope it helps

Paul



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Re: Support RMS

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 26/03/2021 14:03, Ali Reza Hayati wrote:

On 26/03/2021 18:19, Deb Nicholson wrote:


    An interesting thing about men who harass women is that they usually
    don't do it to men. Men who let the community know that they "don't
    believe in harassment" are the last people to find out it's 
happening,

    because no one feels safe telling them.


I believe in harassment and I do stand against any person who harass 
people, no matter they're women or men. But someone's feelings being 
hurt is not harassment.


However, if you use the wrong pronoun once and get corrected, then do it 
again and keep getting it wrong. That could be construed as you not 
listening or respecting that person.


For example, and only example, asking someone out or calling someone by 
wrong pronouns may hurt person's feelings but that's no harassment. Or, 
telling a person who is a woman that she's not as useful as some other 
person who is a man is not sexism.



> telling a person who is a woman that she's not as useful as some other
> person who is a man is not sexism.

We live in a society that meant to be equal, which is why women can join 
the Armed forces, along side men, join the police, in both cases we all 
bring our individuality to the job,  their own traits, strengths and 
weaknesses.  Which we have regardless of our gender.


Here in the UK, we have an equality act. This DOES have provisions for 
gender specific roles, such as a female worker to work with a female 
with physical / learning disabilities for example.


A female or male officer may work with victims of sexual assault / rape 
or other sexual crimes that is gender specific.


Procedures need to be in place to make people feel safe,  this is not 
simply the people around you, it is down to the room layout,  it can 
also be non verbal language,  how we position our hands while talking. 
Not because we HAVE to do that, but because it is the right thing to do 
for everyone.


If you talk to a young child you get to their level, face to face at a 
distance so you don't tower above them, you respect the personal space 
of others,  (not just in the current social distancing context),


You generally have no idea what the other persons personal history is, 
so a small thing to you, may actually be quite a lot to them.


Lets move forward and build a community that is welcoming and respectful.


Paul




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Re: suggestions for leading a free software organization

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 19/02/2021 02:16, quiliro wrote:

Dear Libre Planet:

I have just been elected president of the Free Software Asociation of
Ecuador.

I would like to receive suggestions for making a successful advocacy for
freedom during the following 2 years which I will be in office and for
making a sustainable path for the following boards.  My work is not
payed.  But the organization can receive money through donation or
sales.  Money is not the only resource it could have.  I just mention
it, in case it is required for the suggestions.

Any tip is valuable to me. Thank you very much for your time and wisdom.

Quiliro Ordónez
President - ASLE https://asle.ec
Board member - FSF LA https://fsfla.org

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Further to the advice given,   the Qoto Mastodon instance is STEM 
focussed, please feel free to grab an account there and share what you 
are doing, I can help share


https://qoto.org/invite/xpayLWv6

My ID is @zl...@qoto.org


Paul

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Jitsi mailing list help

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

Does anyone know if the jitsi mailing list page works properly ?

A duckduckgo.com sends me here

https://desktop.jitsi.org/Development/MailingLists

However trying to click the link, to the users' mailing list seems to 
not do anything for a while.  then comes up with


 Error 522 Ray ID: 618a73064af60081 • 2021-01-28 11:42:49 UTC
Connection timed out

Error seems to be at the host end.

I would like to just get in touch with them to suggest

1. Support for peertube videos (and support for other services)
1a.  If people are blocking non-free java script it causes issues with 
video playback.
2. Some sort of Mic / Speaker test facility like there is with Big Blue 
Button (zoom etc) I have issues with sound sometimes, but I have no way 
of testing before entering the room.


Thanks for any help

Paul



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Re: New animated video: Fight to Repair

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 16/01/2021 10:14, quiliro wrote:

"Paul D. Fernhout"  writes:


Hi Greg,

Thanks for making this video. It makes an important point about risk and
proprietary software in a persuasive way.

As mentioned previously (2020-08-08) I did not like the last 30 seconds
of "The University of Costumed Heroes" where the FSF-oriented "hero"
kills people. By contrast, "Fight to Repair" does not have that specific
issue, as instead the villain is turned over to the police instead of
being murdered by a vigilante FSF advocate.

There is still physical violence by the hero near the end of "Fight to
Repair" which could *potentially* have ended in the death of the villain
(from being kicked off a motorcycle at high speed). Potentially -- out
of context -- such an action by the hero could be categorized as felony
assault? Although presumably in context that assault would not be
prosecuted as such as it was in defense of two other people's lives? And
in the end the villain just ended up sliding into a pile of garbage
without apparent injury from the physical assault -- which maybe is the
best one could hope for in this genre?

Of course, the police and courts can engage in state-sanctioned
violence. So, turning over a presumed criminal to police isn't entirely
a non-violent conflict-resolving act in that sense (even without things
like George Floyd tragedy). Nonetheless, involving the police or courts
is generally considered an appropriate response to lawbreaking conflict
in our society (especially compared to vigilante violence).

I continue to encourage you -- especially in light of recent events in
the USA -- to think more deeply about crafting FSF messages that avoid
explicitly or implicitly endorsing the idea that "vigilante violence is
the answer". In that sense, this video is much better than the last. But
there may still be room for improvement -- or maybe not given the genre?

In case it helps, here is a book review I did in 2009 on "The War Play
Dilemma: What Every Parent And Teacher Needs to Know" by Diane E. Levin
and  Nancy Carlsson-Paige which might provide some more context on where
I am coming from:
https://pdfernhout.net/the-war-play-dilemma.html
"The "dilemma" is about a fundamental conflict parents face when dealing
with war play. On the one hand, most parents want children to grow and
develop by working through developmental issues (like learning to deal
with conflict, learning self-control, and learning respect for
themselves and others through play, including play involving conflicts
as hands-on-learning). On the other hand, most parents want to convey
social values related to their beliefs about violence and war as ways to
solve social conflicts. The authors clearly do not say all war play is
bad, and they also point out that even a cracker can be turned into a
gun with one bite. The authors say there are no easy general answers to
this dilemma in all situations, but provide a range of options."

Most of us grew up on a steady diet of violent media -- so watching
physical assault in videos has been normalized in that sense. And it's
true that conflict is a core part of almost any story. Thinking about
ways to transcend conflicts -- especially non-violently -- can be a huge
challenge. One possible starting point:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=non-violent+conflict+resolution

Thanks for continuing to refine the FSF message in more positive ways.


That is a very enlightening analysis.  Thank you very much for your
input Paul   .

I would like to see some good reference to non-violent examples, beyond
the classical King and Gandhi, in order to visualize what a non-violent
free software promotional video could be.




Agreed, I was thinking of a storyline such as

Video starts with text in the corner saying present day
User is operating a device, e.g laptop,  the screen flashes error and it 
turns off,


user tries to find a way to dismantle device,  and finds he / she can't
calls up manufacturer and is told she / she is not permitted to do that

device is thrown in to trash,,  video zooms out to a whole city scape 
then zooms in to a landfill, filling up with broken devices.  Date in 
corner shows a year go by with devices filling up the landfil


a message flashes on screen,it never used to be that way

the video then rewinds back, (think back to when you rewound old VCR 
tapes) with a clock date in the corner to say for example 1970s when we 
could just take stuff apart and fix it with a soldering iron


same thing happens, user is able to fix the device

fast forward back to present day + 5 years

message comes up right to repair allows us to fix devices, give them new 
life / use and is better for the environment.


Shows people fixing devices and giving to the more needy, extending life 
and swapping parts to help with the above.


also shows install of free software to refurbished devices.

Just a thought on a different storyline,  due to the environmental side 

Re: How do you advocate a City agency use libre software?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi Don

On 16/12/2020 23:26, Don Saklad wrote:

How do you advocate a City agency use libre software?
   
For example at

https://www.cambridgema.gov/DHSP/programsforadults/seniorscouncilonaging


Further to my previous response I, along with Noisytoot (Ron) and a few 
others are working on taking the United Kingdom digital skills framework 
and applying the tools they suggest using and suggesting the use of free 
/ privacy tools instead.


https://codeberg.org/DigitalSkills/DigitalSkills/src/branch/main/about.md

Social media - Facebook --> Mastodon
Zoom - Jit.si / Big blue button.
MS Office - LibreOffice , LaTeX, Abiword, etc

we moved this to codeberg to help with collaboration.

Hope this helps.


Paul Sutton (zleap on IRC)


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Free Software directory and Solarus game engine

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

Just seen this posted to Mastodon,

 Solarus game engine
 A lightweight, free and open-source game engine for Action-RPGs

As it is under gpl3, so should be suitable for the Free Software Directory

https://www.solarus-games.org/

Hope this helps

Regards

Paul Sutton

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Re: How do you advocate a City agency use libre software?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 19/12/2020 09:02, Paul Sutton wrote:



On 16/12/2020 23:26, Don Saklad wrote:

How do you advocate a City agency use libre software?
For example at
https://www.cambridgema.gov/DHSP/programsforadults/seniorscouncilonaging




  I'll start looking at video conferencing

Switching from zoom to say big blue button, should not be a problem, 
however you may need to use both,  you need to reasure users that it is 
safe to use,


As I understand things the US Dept of Defense and universities in the US 
are using BBB,  as well as the fsf of course, so if you can get more 
info,  then surely that is a really good plus for using it.



Focus on the positives,  rather than trying to suggest what is bad about 
non free software.  Be remembered for the person who spoke passionately 
about free software and not the person who rambled on moaning about how 
bad proprietary software is.


It looks like they are also using youtube,  so again there are resources 
on the fsf peertube account that cover free software fsf30 and rewind 
for example that promote the cause.


https://torresjrjr.com/archive/2020-07-20-what-is-the-fediverse

Has a great intro video,  brief mention of facebook / twitter than 
straight in to why the fediverse is better.


Just keep it simple, and work up if people want to know more they will 
come back so be prepared,  and the same for tech support.


#libreplanet on freenode is full of users, most seem to be silent (other 
than a news bot) I have found myself trying to answer support questions 
and sometimes struggling to do so,


Correction this should have said #libreoffice not #libreplanet


Paul


If people are isolated they probably want someone to talk to, face to 
face (even via video chat) rather than reading faq's or asking questions 
on a text chat system, esp older people who are used to social 
interaction but the current covid19 situation is really starting to 
affect mental health of all age groups,  humans are social.



Hope this helps,

Paul



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Re: How do you advocate a City agency use libre software?

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 16/12/2020 23:26, Don Saklad wrote:

How do you advocate a City agency use libre software?
   
For example at

https://www.cambridgema.gov/DHSP/programsforadults/seniorscouncilonaging
   




 I'll start looking at video conferencing

Switching from zoom to say big blue button, should not be a problem, 
however you may need to use both,  you need to reasure users that it is 
safe to use,


As I understand things the US Dept of Defense and universities in the US 
are using BBB,  as well as the fsf of course, so if you can get more 
info,  then surely that is a really good plus for using it.



Focus on the positives,  rather than trying to suggest what is bad about 
non free software.  Be remembered for the person who spoke passionately 
about free software and not the person who rambled on moaning about how 
bad proprietary software is.


It looks like they are also using youtube,  so again there are resources 
on the fsf peertube account that cover free software fsf30 and rewind 
for example that promote the cause.


https://torresjrjr.com/archive/2020-07-20-what-is-the-fediverse

Has a great intro video,  brief mention of facebook / twitter than 
straight in to why the fediverse is better.


Just keep it simple, and work up if people want to know more they will 
come back so be prepared,  and the same for tech support.


#libreplanet on freenode is full of users, most seem to be silent (other 
than a news bot) I have found myself trying to answer support questions 
and sometimes struggling to do so,


If people are isolated they probably want someone to talk to, face to 
face (even via video chat) rather than reading faq's or asking questions 
on a text chat system, esp older people who are used to social 
interaction but the current covid19 situation is really starting to 
affect mental health of all age groups,  humans are social.



Hope this helps,

Paul



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Re: Someone is auto-replying with no reply content (was: Planned Obsolescence)

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 16/12/2020 20:23, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

The user Stanisława Pałętka, which is apparently subscribed to this list. 
Attached is a reply from per, citing my message, but with no reply content.



I have had the same,  very odd as it fails to add anything to the 
discussion.


Paul Sutton


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Re: Free software presentation

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi Jean

It is work in progress and designed just to introduce 4 freedoms and the 
licenses mentioned on the fsf website.


It is creative commons and is on gitlab so can be downloaded and 
expanded or key points can be expanded on.


Paul


On 16/12/2020 18:13, Jean Louis wrote:

* Paul Sutton  [2020-12-11 12:16]:

Hi Jean

Yes, it is work in progress, what do I need to add to it?   I am just trying
to keep it short.  I guess I could add some bullet points on the GNU
philosophy.


Many things are missing there. It looks kind of empty presentation. Is
it meant for English speaking only?

Jean



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Re: Colonizing education

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi All

The links to the resources are below,  the shoetool, rewind and 
university of costumed heroes videos are all on the fsf website anyway, 
Just spotted the tedx talk, which I didn't know existed so I can add 
that to the dvd perhaps.


https://www.fsf.org/resources/videos/

Not too sure where the creative commons video is  I downloaded that one 
years ago.   If this dvd resource is OK I can perhaps download the tedX 
talk.


The dvd iso is here on disroot it is 447 MB in size,  it may expire 
Thursday Am UK time, as I don't think i set the expiration long enough.


https://upload.disroot.org/r/XwQ25NVu#J6sNZWToFgqbWbLYYfOr7em1+VzpnvAuBRrN3El5T/I=


I am not sure how to resize a video, kdenlive converted the downloaded 
video files to vob for me, (what ever vob is) and just walked me through 
making a title page which I had done before so understood the basic 
idea.  They play full screen anyway or they can.


My main reason for doing this is that having them on a physical dvd I 
can play anywhere,  the iso the same, right click, open in vlc.




Hope this helps

Paul Sutton

On 09/12/2020 14:47, Pen-Yuan Hsing wrote:

Can you upload it to the Internet Archive? (https://www.archive.org/)
And if you can upload the "source" of your videos that would be even
better! :D

On 09/12/2020, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
 wrote:

On 09/12/2020 03:53, msunet wrote:

Do you have that iso available somewhere that you can share? I'd be
curious to check it out.


Hi
Happy to share just trying to figure out the best way to share it  it is
about 415mb in size, so I can upload to https://upload.disroot.org/
which has a max upload size of 2gb and send the link over.

Then take it from there.

Paul


I have used kdenlive in the past for making dance videos
(shellblade.net/shuffle.html), and it's legit stuff. At some point I
also tried OpenShot, but the performance was rather sluggish at the
time. With kdenlive that wasn't a problem, and there were also no
surprises in the rendered output in terms of the audio/video
synchronisation (which is important for dance videos, as you can
imagine.)

"DVDs may seem rather old tech"

You mean they're not pay-per-view streamed pieces of DRM shit? Yeah, old
indeed :)

On December 7, 2020 10:36:30 AM PST, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
 wrote:

 On 06/12/2020 22:59, Marc Sunet wrote:


https://instituteforpubliceducation.org/monopoly-technology-platforms-are-colonizing-education/

<https://instituteforpubliceducation.org/monopoly-technology-platforms-are-colonizing-education/>



 An old but ongoing battle.



 A good reason to pull all our resources together, so we can teach
about
 creative commons, free software, DRM etc.

 To this end, A few years ago I made a dvd with the fsf30, wanna work
 together (creative commons) 4 freedoms and what is gnu+linux (latter
2
 by Richard Stallman)

 I have just updated this to include the DRM video shoetool,  rewind
and
 university of costumed heroes.

 It is very basic dvd, made with kdenlive, I need to figure out how to
 use the software more, but for my first time ever using it, not bad
really.

 I have attached a screenshot of the menu screen.

 DVDs may seem rather old tech, but the ISO file can be opened in vlc,
 and it acts as a dvd,  so there is no need to worry if there is no
 internet, poor connection, filtering etc,  if you want to watch or
 present a video it is possible.

 I have already put together a LibreOffice impress presentation for
 Mastodon, so will look at doing the same for free software, DRM and
 other stuff and put this on gitlab, but also save as pdf so it can be
 uploaded to big blue button.

 We just need people to teach now.  If the resources are there,  then
 that is 1/2 the battle I think.

 Regards

 Paul Sutton (England)





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Re: Colonizing education

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Creative commons video is here

https://archive.org/details/3-brian-creativecommonswannaworktogether

Just included as it is a good resource to explain creative commons.

Paul


On 09/12/2020 14:47, Pen-Yuan Hsing wrote:

Can you upload it to the Internet Archive? (https://www.archive.org/)
And if you can upload the "source" of your videos that would be even
better! :D

On 09/12/2020, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
 wrote:

On 09/12/2020 03:53, msunet wrote:

Do you have that iso available somewhere that you can share? I'd be
curious to check it out.


Hi
Happy to share just trying to figure out the best way to share it  it is
about 415mb in size, so I can upload to https://upload.disroot.org/
which has a max upload size of 2gb and send the link over.

Then take it from there.

Paul


I have used kdenlive in the past for making dance videos
(shellblade.net/shuffle.html), and it's legit stuff. At some point I
also tried OpenShot, but the performance was rather sluggish at the
time. With kdenlive that wasn't a problem, and there were also no
surprises in the rendered output in terms of the audio/video
synchronisation (which is important for dance videos, as you can
imagine.)

"DVDs may seem rather old tech"

You mean they're not pay-per-view streamed pieces of DRM shit? Yeah, old
indeed :)

On December 7, 2020 10:36:30 AM PST, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss
 wrote:

 On 06/12/2020 22:59, Marc Sunet wrote:


https://instituteforpubliceducation.org/monopoly-technology-platforms-are-colonizing-education/

<https://instituteforpubliceducation.org/monopoly-technology-platforms-are-colonizing-education/>



 An old but ongoing battle.



 A good reason to pull all our resources together, so we can teach
about
 creative commons, free software, DRM etc.

 To this end, A few years ago I made a dvd with the fsf30, wanna work
 together (creative commons) 4 freedoms and what is gnu+linux (latter
2
 by Richard Stallman)

 I have just updated this to include the DRM video shoetool,  rewind
and
 university of costumed heroes.

 It is very basic dvd, made with kdenlive, I need to figure out how to
 use the software more, but for my first time ever using it, not bad
really.

 I have attached a screenshot of the menu screen.

 DVDs may seem rather old tech, but the ISO file can be opened in vlc,
 and it acts as a dvd,  so there is no need to worry if there is no
 internet, poor connection, filtering etc,  if you want to watch or
 present a video it is possible.

 I have already put together a LibreOffice impress presentation for
 Mastodon, so will look at doing the same for free software, DRM and
 other stuff and put this on gitlab, but also save as pdf so it can be
 uploaded to big blue button.

 We just need people to teach now.  If the resources are there,  then
 that is 1/2 the battle I think.

 Regards

 Paul Sutton (England)





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<https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss>


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Re: Colonizing education

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 09/12/2020 03:53, msunet wrote:
Do you have that iso available somewhere that you can share? I'd be 
curious to check it out.



Hi
Happy to share just trying to figure out the best way to share it  it is 
about 415mb in size, so I can upload to https://upload.disroot.org/ 
which has a max upload size of 2gb and send the link over.


Then take it from there.

Paul




I have used kdenlive in the past for making dance videos 
(shellblade.net/shuffle.html), and it's legit stuff. At some point I 
also tried OpenShot, but the performance was rather sluggish at the 
time. With kdenlive that wasn't a problem, and there were also no 
surprises in the rendered output in terms of the audio/video 
synchronisation (which is important for dance videos, as you can imagine.)


"DVDs may seem rather old tech"

You mean they're not pay-per-view streamed pieces of DRM shit? Yeah, old 
indeed :)


On December 7, 2020 10:36:30 AM PST, Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss 
 wrote:


On 06/12/2020 22:59, Marc Sunet wrote:


https://instituteforpubliceducation.org/monopoly-technology-platforms-are-colonizing-education/

<https://instituteforpubliceducation.org/monopoly-technology-platforms-are-colonizing-education/>



An old but ongoing battle.



A good reason to pull all our resources together, so we can teach about
creative commons, free software, DRM etc.

To this end, A few years ago I made a dvd with the fsf30, wanna work
together (creative commons) 4 freedoms and what is gnu+linux (latter 2
by Richard Stallman)

I have just updated this to include the DRM video shoetool,  rewind and
university of costumed heroes.

It is very basic dvd, made with kdenlive, I need to figure out how to
use the software more, but for my first time ever using it, not bad really.

I have attached a screenshot of the menu screen.

DVDs may seem rather old tech, but the ISO file can be opened in vlc,
and it acts as a dvd,  so there is no need to worry if there is no
internet, poor connection, filtering etc,  if you want to watch or
present a video it is possible.

I have already put together a LibreOffice impress presentation for
Mastodon, so will look at doing the same for free software, DRM and
other stuff and put this on gitlab, but also save as pdf so it can be
uploaded to big blue button.

We just need people to teach now.  If the resources are there,  then
that is 1/2 the battle I think.

    Regards

Paul Sutton (England)




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Free software presentation

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

Not sure if this is useful, but using the same format as my Mastodon 
Presentation,


https://salsa.debian.org/zleap-guest/mastodonpresentation - included for 
reference.


I have now made a short presentation to help explain about free software 
licenses from the information on the FSF and GNU websites.  Both are 
created using LibreOffice 7 impress (odp)


https://salsa.debian.org/zleap-guest/freesoftwarepresentation

Hope this helps

Paul Sutton


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Re: [OT] : Liberapay

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 05/12/2020 05:11, Aaron Wolf wrote:

Liberapay is a relative stand-out in terms of working to overall be
positive. I don't think they are having any sort of remarkable effect
because they just support plain old traditional donations (i.e. it's
just a tool for membership donations not unlike direct membership to FSF
etc). I wouldn't expect a lot of income just by getting listed there,
but it's okay enough.

I'm the co-founder of a still-not-fully-launched platform to better
organize larger crowds to support free/libre/open software and other
public goods. And we have made a pretty thorough summary of the tools
out there that are already available (in fact, Liberapay links to our
summary in their own FAQ).

So, to compare:
https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/market-research/other-crowdfunding

I'm not certain that Liberapay meets the FSF level of stringent ideals
(even for Snowdrift.coop working on alpha stuff, we had to compromise by
serving Stripe's proprietary JavaScript on a single page). But as far as
general safety, Liberapay is a legitimate platform run responsibly.

So, it's safe enough, just know that most of the success in fundraising
will be due to your own efforts to promote the project and ask for
donations. Signing up on a platform won't get that much attention in itself.



Hi Aaron

Thanks for this, I am more confident at looking further in to this now.

Regards

Paul Sutton



On 2020-12-03 12:48 p.m., Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss wrote:

Hi

Sorry if this is off topic, I decided to ask about this here as the gnu
community list seems quite and I wasn't really sure where else to ask.

I am producing video / screenshots for Libreoffice to help the docs team
(these resources may also help other projects too),  I am looking at
setting up Liberapay to help facilitate for the resources I am producing.

Just wondered if anyone here has experience with this? If it is a good
idea and safe to use this.

By asking here, I am just exercising due diligence (if that is the right
term) before taking the plunge in to this.

However it could be something the Liberapay team could perhaps be
invited to talk about at LibrePlanet.  Raise their profile but would
also be something that can directly benefit developers.

Thanks

Paul Sutton







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[OT] : Liberapay

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi

Sorry if this is off topic, I decided to ask about this here as the gnu 
community list seems quite and I wasn't really sure where else to ask.


I am producing video / screenshots for Libreoffice to help the docs team 
(these resources may also help other projects too),  I am looking at 
setting up Liberapay to help facilitate for the resources I am producing.


Just wondered if anyone here has experience with this? If it is a good 
idea and safe to use this.


By asking here, I am just exercising due diligence (if that is the right 
term) before taking the plunge in to this.


However it could be something the Liberapay team could perhaps be 
invited to talk about at LibrePlanet.  Raise their profile but would 
also be something that can directly benefit developers.


Thanks

Paul Sutton


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Re: Possible promotional article

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 21/11/2020 14:51, quiliro wrote:

"Empowering computer users in these times when freedom is at risk
requires tools such as those which will be presented at LibrePlanet
2020.


Hi Quiliro

Thanks for this, I will make the changes and re-submit as it is not 
going to go in till 2021.


Regards


Paul Sutton


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Possible promotional article

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

Hi all

I am looking at submitting a short (needs to be about 330 words) article 
to a local community publication in Torbay, Devon.


I can't find the exact dates for LP 2021 but so far have come up with 
the following,


It may not get big reach, but it is publicity, at least.

How does the following sound, please, and is it ok to do this?

I can also include the LP logo to go along side the article.  The first 
part is clearly quoted from the LP website.


I am a little short on 330 word with this, but this allows for some editing.

Thank you for any help, hopefully it can help get LP 2021 promoted.

Paul

--- draft wording ---
LibrePlanet [1] is the annual conference hosted by the Free Software 
Foundation [2]. LibrePlanet provides an opportunity for community 
activists, domain experts, and people seeking solutions for themselves 
to come together in order to discuss current issues in technology and 
ethics. The theme for LibrePlanet 2021 is Empowering Users.


As with last year,  due to the Covid19 pandemic, Libreplaent will take 
place as an online event.  This also has the advantage of allowing more 
people to attend who may not, for example, be able to get to Boston, MA, 
USA for the physical event.


Free software is more than about cost,  it really means freedom and the 
GNU Public license

[3] gives users 4 freedoms, defined below.


   * The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose 
(freedom 0).
   * The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it 
does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code 
is a precondition for this.

   * The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others (freedom 2).
   * The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to 
others (freedom 3).


The event will take place in March 2021 and, as with previous years will 
have a mix of Keynote speeches, workshops, longer talks and lightning 
talks by a wide range of people from different technical backgrounds and 
age groups.  This year the theme is going to be Empowering Users.


Some of the talks from the 2020 conference included; Teaching about free 
software, Free software and science, Libreoffice, bridging the digital 
divide with free software.


Should be another interesting and successful event.  Dates are to be 
confirmed,  but by the time of publication should be on the website.




1. https://libreplanet.org/2021/
2. https://www.fsf.org/
3. https://www.gnu.org/
4. https://www.raspberrypi.org/

--- draft wording ---
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Re: Free Software Logo

[Paul Sutton via libreplanet-discuss]

On 28/10/2020 22:48, mray wrote:

Hi all,

Short design related intermission:

I'm letting you know that there is now a Free Software Logo ready to use
for everybody wanting to have a sign that says "Free Software":

  https://free-software-logo.codeberg.page/

…no need to let "Open Source" take all the attention in that regard (Or
Microsoft GitHub for that matter, as some people even use that logo in
weird ways)…


-mray


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That looks neat, thanks

Paul

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Re: Sacrifices made for Free Software

[Paul Sutton]

On 29/07/2020 15:59, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
> LM, 29/07/20 14:11:
>> I really don't understand, why is the FSF petitioning schools (
>> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/sign-this-petition-for-freedom-in-the-classroom
>> ) to use Free Software if there is no available Free Software
>> alternative for what they're specifically looking for
> 
> Uh? What are they looking for, that doesn't have a free software
> alternative?
> 
> Federico

In the UK I guess on main piece of software is SIMS,  this is a school
management software system seems to have been around for decades.  so it
helps to manage all sorts of essential school, and student data.

probably also integrates with local education authority databases too,
sufficient to say, windows only and very tied in to that.  I think it is
probably quite expensive too.



Paul

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Re: OS for schools (was Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement)

[Paul Sutton]

On 28/07/2020 19:45, LM wrote:
> Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote:
>> If the goal is to get a user-friendly system distribution for use by
>> non-advanced users, then there's no need start anew, since Trisquel
>> ([1]) is still active and accepting contributors. It even has a Sugar
>> environment/flavor.
> 
> A primary goal is to be able to build the entire operating system from
> source code (similar to Linux from Scratch).  This gives the students
> a chance to find out more about how an operating system works, what it
> takes to put one together and how to customize their systems however
> they choose.  The second goal is to be able to supply lightweight
> educational programs, games, utilities, hobby software, accessibility
> tools, ebook readers and CC/public domain reading materials and
> recordings.  That way, if a user has an older machine and/or poor or
> no Internet access, etc., he/she can still perform educational
> activities with the computer.

I can't see many schools allowing students to install something other
than what is on the current system,  they may not have access to old
computers or components to build computers,  you may be able to build a
system from older processors e.g 8502 or z80 and combine with say a
arduino. Someone has to maintain the computer labs and these have to be
used by other groups too.

> 
> I'm finding less and less people who actually know how to program and
> more and more people just using what someone else did.  Just had a
> conversation with someone today about measuring if a program would
> work well on an older computer and the other person's definition had
> nothing to do with the actual source code itself or how complex it was
> or what the dependencies were.  Being able to have the source code so
> that you can modify it is one of the goals of the FSF.  The aim is to
> encourage hobbyists/students to learn how to understand, modify,
> customize, improve and share code rather than just using whatever
> software they're given.

I agree,  You may find children and young people do,but I have found it
is much harder to reach out to them.

The only thing I would suggest on this would be some sort of activity
club,  but given covid 19 this would end up being virtual and a lot
harder due to the complex nature of recompiling software for beginners.

If you can get for example 10 computers, ideally the same spec, maybe
approach a summer camp as an activity leader with a solid plan, usually
some are specialist.

You may have a good range of ages,  so start with the youngest, teach
scratch and maybe python,  and move them on to more complex stuff.  It
depends on what they already know too.


Paul

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Re: OS for schools (was Re: Practicality of GNU project and libre movement)

[Paul Sutton]

In terms of distros for education there is already

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/
I think there is something called SkolLinux and Edubuntu,

But I agree, there is the FSF distros too.

I am involve with ToriOS ( https://torios.top/ ) so if Jinnijus is
interested we are always looking for help with that.  We are aiming to
just build a lightweight distribution.

Hope this helps

Paul

On 27/07/2020 15:01, LM wrote:
>  jinnjus wrote:
>  This is why I am saying build a simple free OS for kids to use in
>  schools.  I'd even go a step further and say make them dig out a
>  soldering iron and build their device from a kit themselves.
> 
>This is something I'd really be interested in.  I would love to help
>put together a lightweight Linux or Free OS distribution that included
>educational games and other learning tools.  Preferably, it would be
>something that they could duplicate by building the entire distribution
>from source themselves as well.  It would be great if I could do it all
>on my own, but at the rate the project's going, there won't be any
>concrete results any time soon.  It would be wonderful if I could find
>some others with similar interests to collaborate on something like
>this.  If anyone knows of any viable projects in this area, please
>share information on them.
>As to encouraging using soldering irons in school, I personally
>wouldn't recommend it.  I still have a burn mark from when I used one
>for a school project several years ago.
> 
> 
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Re: Free software video conferencing tools advocacy call to action

[Paul Sutton]

Hi

Thanks for this, hopefully it will make a difference, I will keep
pushing at this end too.

Eventually people will hopefully start to ask about ALL available tools.


Paul

On 18/06/2020 15:54, Nicholas Johnson wrote:
> Paul, I sent them an email with supporting links.
> 
> - Nicholas Johnson
> 
>> Hi
>>
>> Just responded to a post from online centres (@Online_Centres) in the uk
>> regarding their course https://www.learnmyway.com/courses/video-calling/
>> not having any mention of free software tools
>>
>> I tweeted in @fsf and @fsfe but if anyone can help by tweeting them a
>> few alternatives  please (there is a good list somewhere I can't find it.)
>>
>> I know there are things such as
>>
>> Jami
>> Big Blue button
>> Jitsi meet (or however you type it)
>>
>> Any help will really support the cause, We won't get anywhere with ONE
>> person doing this, it needs a combined effort.
>>
>> Also a good way to cite that the community held the whole of libreplanet
>> 2020 via free software, which will help push back against any argument
>> about it not working properly.
>>
>> Thanks for any help, lets spread the word.
>>
>> Paul

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Free software video conferencing tools advocacy call to action

[Paul Sutton]

Hi

Just responded to a post from online centres (@Online_Centres) in the uk
regarding their course https://www.learnmyway.com/courses/video-calling/
not having any mention of free software tools

I tweeted in @fsf and @fsfe but if anyone can help by tweeting them a
few alternatives  please (there is a good list somewhere I can't find it.)

I know there are things such as

Jami
Big Blue button
Jitsi meet (or however you type it)

Any help will really support the cause, We won't get anywhere with ONE
person doing this, it needs a combined effort.

Also a good way to cite that the community held the whole of libreplanet
2020 via free software, which will help push back against any argument
about it not working properly.

Thanks for any help, lets spread the word.

Paul
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Linked in Alternative - free / privacy respecting

[Paul Sutton]

Hi

Not sure if this is a little off topic, I am currently on LinkedIn which
is OK for some things but seems just sluggish and not very friendly in
places.

I wondered if there was an alternative that is more in line with the
values of the free software community and respects privacy.

Possible features

1. Could be built with free tools
1. Built by developers for developers, which would allow free software
projects to find other developers (or hackers as we call them) to help
with projects.
3.Perhaps enabled with Activity pub to allow a decentralized approach
and linking to fediverse accounts.

4. With linkedIn you can pull down dates from a menu, sometimes having a
free form entry box would perhaps be better.

5. Tags for job or other skills, this would allow easy searching by
tags, similar to the fediverse.  if you have for example #kernel in your
list, then anyone doing a search should be able to find others with
kernel expertise

8 easier to add qualifications and courses,  LinkedIn seems to be rather
clunky with this, you add a provider, then add courses and have to link
to the provider. It may be easier to have a text box for this and you
add in the information manually.

9.  I was asked recently on Mastodon to prove I was not a robot user, so
something similar may actually encourage / force some sort of interaction.

10. Make it easier to add work history,  be it employment, volunteer
etc, Friendica makes it easy to add a post, with a topic box, tag box
and the a free form text box.  So maybe something similar. As with
Friendica or Mastodon I can add pictures to posts, to adding a pdf /
picture of a certificate should in theory be doable that way (may be
better for the qualifications but that would also cover in work training.

11. Maybe have encryption and gpg built in (privacy / security)
12. Allow for gpg keys if you sign gpg my key you have met me, so could
be a way to sign my profile or say I am that person (if that makes sense)
13. integration in to chat services or ids for chat services.

I was thinking that this would make it easier to find people to help
with development.

I am not looking at developing this (I really don't have the skills or
even know where to start), just asking if there has been any discussions
anywhere regarding developing such a service.

I know there are lots of individual projects that need help and there
has to be an easy for developers to sign up and find where others need
help.

Thanks

Regard

Paul Sutton

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Re: virtual meetings

[Paul Sutton]

I get the same problem in the UK. There is an assumption that people:

* Uses a particular proprietary solution or
* Want to use a proprietary solution or

Or in some cases they assume people have or can even afford a smartphone
on low or zero income.

As it is seen that everyone uses zoom, teams, (as everyone assumes you
use Windows, MS office) and even down to assuming you use or want to use
facebook.

So lets share lots of examples of where free alternatives are being
used, I quite like Jitsi meet, it will be better for me once I have a
headset.

I also like the look of Big Blue button as a potential teaching tool, as
I can upload a pdf presentation or other document, share screens and
also share notes.

I understand your frustration, what is worse is that some job interviews
are also being conducted over zoom, which is really going to
discriminate against anyone not having the ability to use zoom. Or may
not want to due to the number of security issues that have been reported.


Paul




On 04/05/2020 16:52, LM wrote:
> Okay, just had to complain to a more sympathetic ear.  Seems like all
> the technical groups in my area are using Zoom or Microsoft Teams or
> Microsoft Visual Studio for communications during virtual meetings.
> Talk about not being inclusive.  I've been posting links for the FSF
> alternatives and letting them know not everyone can access what
> they're using, but they don't seem to care.
> 
> On the plus side, LibreMiami held its first Jitsi meeting this
> Saturday and I thought they did a wonderful job on it.
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Re: Sharing your free software / quarantine success story

[Paul Sutton]

Hi All

Firstly sorry for the long e-mail.

Right now, I seem to be doing several things on this front, but more in
a low key / subliminal way.

Firstly I am doing a BASIC it course, (partly just to get a bit of paper
that says I can use a computer), I can try and give examples of free
tools for collaboration, so for example jit.si meet, git, etc,  In fact
I think if I mention git, it runs along side github and free software
alternatives such as gitlab, salsa.debian.net for example.
I don't want to get in to complex detail on things but if I just note
that there is more than simply github,  it hopefully gets a message
over, little by little.

I am also running a local code club at my Local library in Paignton, so
I can try and drop in to the conversation about free software etc,  if
there is interest discuss further, we have a few netbooks so am using
Raspbian desktop on them, so again there is a way to drop in to the
conversation that is just one of many distributions built using free
software.

The code club has gone virtual, so the library are sharing things via
faceobok / twitter (out of my hands).

Also helping to run the South Devon Tech Jam, which is a monthly tech
event,  so again I can do the same, drop free software into the
conversation.  This is suspended during covid19 but it gives me a chance
to perhaps do something that will give the free software communities
more exposure, or figure out how to.

So the issues are:

I feel that I am up against it a lot of the time,  people insist on
using trello (rather than Kanban), ms office or mainstream social media.
There is little thinking out side of that box.

a few things I hear ? (and these arguments may be familar to people)

MS is industry standard (well sure,  but LaTeX is standard to produce
academic and scientific papers).  We need to shout louder in favour of
open document formats, and cite where odt is an approved / used standard.

No one uses x free software tool,  well of course they do, we use it.

Apparently no one uses the fediverse.

Everyone uses facebook or people use it as their friends do,  there are
lots of events near to me that are using facebook live etc, so to be
part of that you HAVE to be on facebook,  which forces people to
surrender their privacy.

It seems there is therefore a cynical barrier to free software and
freedom.  Or the idea the hackers just produce poor code as if it is
hacked together without much thought.  Children / young people are more
responsive to the discussion.  This could be a key thing here.

Some solutions

What I can do is mention free software tools on my personal blog.  I
mostly use LaTeX and overleaf, so the former is free software at least,
so that is being mentioned under collaboration for the IT course.

In terms of a few success stories:

My uncle is running Linux mint,
My neighbours daughters laptop is broken (hardware issue I think), so I
have lent her a spare netbook running Raspbian, I installed google
chrome as I took a guess it would work with her school learning
platform, chromium doesn't cut it for me, scratch runs like a snail.

It does mean she can do her homework from school.  So far no problems.
Which I think shows that children / young people are a real key factor
in the movement they don#t see the OS as a barrier it can be anything
they figure it out.  It also shows free software is perfectly find for
peoples needs.

Once the videos for libreplanet 2020 are out, we perhaps need to start
conversations on the fediverse at least,  tag in people share as much as
possible and use these forums,  that way people on fb etc will miss out,

So far the South Devon Tech Jam has a handful of people (literally) who
attend, despite having something like 30+ likes on facebook.

What I would like to see is more likes on the fediverse (it will add
more legitimacy to my rather unofficial fediverse account and counter
the argument no one uses it.)   But also some sort of conversations
taking place that some how include that account, so the conversation
shows up in the feed.   Or If I share say the libreplatnet videos,
people click like, boost or what ever.

This is more about adding something to our argument, than just having
likes.

Ok that is sort of manipulation of things but no where near as much as
the mainstream social media networks manipulate things.


Anyway just thought I would share this,

Regards

Paul Sutton


On 15/04/2020 21:44, Greg Farough wrote:
> Hi, everyone,
> 
> As you know, we have been working on making sure everyone understands
> the value of using free software to communicate with their friends and
> loved ones. Now that the vast majority of us are both working and
> socializing remotely, it is now more important than ever that people
> migrate to solutions that respect their freedom. We've already
> described a few in a recent article[1], and are planning to draw more
> attention to this subject in the near future.
> 
> Recently, we